Punk Brings Gargano Back to Life

0:00Hey there everyone, you're listening to Busted Open here today with Denise Salcedo and Raj Desi and we are about to break down what took place on Friday night Smackdown, especially when it came down to the WWE title picture. The last couple of weeks, we have been talking a whole lot here on this channel about how the main event picture has completely erupted on Smackdown. With everybody that's involved with CM Punk being like the son in this orbit here, it feels like there is just a lot of chaos and a lot of unpredictability going on right now in the men's title picture. And that's I think the biggest thing that I want to start off with last night, CM Punk versus Johnny Gargano. Finally, bringing him back to life, he's pissed that he doesn't have a number one contender and that's how he ended up getting that match because of course, Sammy Zane went out there and ruined that fatal four way. This all led to CM Punk defeating Johnny Gargano and Sammy Zane is now getting a matchup

1:02with CM Punk over at Smackdown in Mexico City. So I want to start right there Raj, this whole entire title picture, what are your thoughts about CM Punk and what he's doing right now and the orbit that he's got going on with Gunther, Kevin Owens, Finn Balor, Sammy Zane, hell even Randy who approached him not too long ago. I appreciate the chaotic nature of the title picture, especially if we compare it to the world title on the raw side with Roman who is like the pillar, the mainstay. I also appreciate the fact that the WWE Championship has traded hands, trades hands relatively quicker than the opposite side on Raw with the world with the world title. The chaotic nature, it goes to show you just the level of talent on Smackdown. It's a little bit unbalanced in my opinion. We have Gunther, Finn Balor, I love to see him step up to that main event level again.

2:05He's always a perennial challenger. It feels like to me, but I would love to see Finn get one more title run. I think Smackdown is a place to do it. With these quick, I don't want this to come off the wrong way. Finn can win the title and just to keep things interesting again, he loses it. Just Gunther. It feels like to me Gunther and Finn have their own separate beef. Kyo and Sammy have their own separate beef. Ponke's beef with everybody. Therefore bringing everybody together. This week we've seen a new challenger, Johnny Gargano. Also I'm interested to see if he interjects himself into that main event scene. Also how do you feel about that? How do you feel about Johnny's performance? Okay, so here's the thing. I've been mad about what's been going on with Johnny Gargano for months now, Raj. I'm like, what are you doing? This guy is Johnny wrestling. He is practically royalty over on NXT. When you think of the greatest NXT wrestlers, you're obviously going to name Johnny Gargano

3:10as one of them. So the whole like him being sad and depressed and just laying there. I'm thinking to myself every week, we've got to stop doing this. So in CM Punk, started confronting him a couple of weeks ago and telling him like, what are you doing, man? He felt to me like the first person that actually said the things that I had been thinking while I was watching the show. And so it was funny because last night I was, I was low key a little upset about this. I thought to myself, wait. CM Punk in order to spruce up Johnny Gargano is giving him a title shot. And at first I was thinking to myself, you know what, it's not fair. It kind of feels like a participation trophy because meanwhile you got guys like Gunther, KO, Finn Balor, Sammy Zane, out there killing themselves trying to get an opportunity at CM Punk's title and Johnny Gargano who hasn't done anything in months gets the title shot. Of course we all know it happened because he's in Cleveland and it was his hometown and all. And I thought, okay fine, I won't be such a like I. Heckler on this, but I didn't love that aspect of it because I don't like the whole like

4:15participation trophy thing. But I said, okay fine, you know what, if this is the thing that finally brings back Johnny wrestling, then I'm going to be, I'm going to choose to be optimistic about this. I'm going to choose to choose the bright side of this because the bright side is that I hope that after this we never see Johnny Gargano laying on that crate ever again. Johnny Gargano needs to go back to what he's been doing before and that is wrestling because again, he's he's just too good. Raj, I used to watch this guy on the indie scene and I used to see him like go ham. I used to go to shows if Johnny Gargano was on the card and and I feel like the last couple of months we haven't seen that version. And even then when he was in DIY with Tomas O'Champa, it felt like there was still something that was holding them back, not letting them go full ham on it. And that to me was a little bit of a struggle. So I hope that after this that he doesn't go back to like depression, oh, I lost, I'm

5:16not going to make it. I hope that this revitalizes him. Yeah, I don't see him going back into that depressed state again, but the real question is will we continue to see Johnny Gargano on television, on storylines? Look, Denise, it's super difficult. We got the the women's side, which else is green and Naya and fatal, um, fatal attraction. Then, uh, on the men's side, obviously you'd listen to all those names from KO to Goon Thurfin, everybody on that side. Now, you mentioned all these great things about Johnny being a great wrestler. We all know Johnny is a great wrestler, but does that matter in today's wrestling landscape? And WWE landscape, I don't even want to say wrestling in the world wrestling entertainment landscape. So to me, this was a very important showing and it was important that it was in Cleveland because the crowd reaction.

6:18Now these crowd reactions that you see on television as a viewer are contagious. If you take advantage of the opportunity, I'm a viewer at home. I'm watching SmackDown. I see Johnny Gargano get this monstrous reaction, standing ovation, near fall, albeit due to a title shot from Sammy, doesn't matter. That near fall, like what an amazing hook. But again, we have to capitalize on this. So if I'm a fan, I watch SmackDown. I know that I bought a ticket to the next SmackDown is coming to my city. I'm expecting Johnny to come out and when he comes out, I'm going to say, I'm going to give him that same level of pop. Now if Johnny is not on television and say next week or the week after, that momentum slows down so much, this is from the perspective of a performer. Yes, I understand as fans, we love Johnny, everything he's done in NXT.

7:18But does that matter? I would say it depends on the fan that you're asking. But some fans they prefer like, okay, I just want like the happiness, the jokes, the entertainment and sports entertainment. Then there's the fans that are like, I kind of want to balance. I want the good matches, I want great wrestlers out there, but I also want good storytelling. So I think it depends on who you ask. I would like to see SmackDown move back to three hours. I know it's way above our pay grades. But the three hour show gives an opportunity to wrestlers like Johnny Gargano and on RAW, Javon Evans gets matches on a weekly basis. Is there any other younger stars that they like Tatum Paxley? She's highlighted, week in and week out in the short period that she's been there. Blake Monroe, I'll be in the last couple weeks, I'll be at backstage promos, but she's on television. I just hope Johnny gets that same sort of representation on SmackDown going forward.

8:26Just keep him engaged, keep him involved. And I got a question for you. Six months ago when this storyline was created of Johnny being depressed, laying on the crates, do you think they had an end game in goal? No. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Every week I've been thinking to myself, because this started forever ago at this point. And I remember going, if you remember he had those interactions with Dan Housen early on where Dan Housen was giving them the money. No, Candace was trying to get Dan Housen to curse him, all of these things, right? I thought, okay, is this leading to something when Dan Housen and then Dan Housen came and went. And it kind of happened like that where there was wrestlers that were interacting here and there backstage with Johnny Gargano, but they came and they went and I kept thinking, where's the payoff in all of this? But my assumption was they're going to do something. They're going to do something big at some point and everybody is going to say that that was what they were waiting for. But I don't actually think so.

9:27I think it was just a matter of, we're going to keep them doing this until we figure out when the moment is to actually do something with it. And of course, being in Cleveland they thought, all right, this is it, because at the end of the day, regardless of what you have been having Johnny Gargano do, you can still send them out there and just add a flick of the wrist, be like, hey, go out there having an awesome match with CM Punk and what do you get? You get a fresh match up with CM Punk that he hasn't had before. And you also get that crowd reaction of, hey, Johnny Gargano is back and hey, he's been his hometown and like you said, that reaction that he got in Cleveland, it was huge. It's almost like this currency of, hey, I got this reaction. Of course, it's my hometown, but still a reaction. And people at home were like, oh yeah, he finally got up because he had been tempted with a lot. Like, they tried everything. I mean, Candace Lorraine, by the way, should be hell upset. That's just my personal opinion because she was getting attacked by Blake Monroe and Johnny Gargano did not do squat about that. He didn't give two shits about Candace Lorraine getting beat up and she would be begging him

10:31and imploring him. And it wasn't until he didn't get up until a very selfish moment when he got the opportunity to get a championship. And this isn't the only time he's done this. He also did this on NXT because on NXT, Candace Lorraine brought him out there, I guess, to find himself once again. And they put him in this fatal four way. And I remember being pissed on NXT because they just had him fall on top of somebody. I forget who. He falls on top of them. One, two, three. He gets a matchup on the next PLE. And I remember thinking after that, okay, maybe Johnny Gargano will go back to being wrestling and it didn't happen. And that's why I was thinking to myself, like, is the same thing that happened when he did the NXT bit going to happen and butt on SmackDown? I hope not. But I had some, like, story wise, I think to myself, I would have probably, if I was Candace, I would have been like, yo, bye. Thank you, next, I'm moving on. You held me back for all these months.

11:32I would be bringing up all of these reasons as to why I'm pissed off with Johnny Gargano. But I don't think they're gonna do that. But to me, it's a little unrealistic for her not to be upset at him. What would be a scenario for you going forward over, let's say the next month, how would you book Johnny Gargano? How would you take advantage of this? Easy, first of all, I would start off with him saying that he's got something to prove. Come out here, I would cut a promo saying something along the lines of last week, I got a taste of what it's like to be back in the main event. I got a taste of what it's like to compete against the WWE Champion. I got a taste of what it's like to even, I was so close. He can talk about how close he was to that championship, but it didn't happen. But that he spent the last X amount of months doing nothing. But after this, he's not gonna do that. Because right before his match, he looked at the camera and he said, Johnny wrestling is back. I just want him to mean that. I want him to mean that.

12:32I want him to apologize to Candice Loray for everything he's put her through the last couple of months. And tell her, hey, I've changed, but actually prove it. And after that, easy. I want to see him wrestle Finn Balor. I want to see him wrestle Goonther. I want to see him wrestle Kevin Owens. I want to see him eventually. And I'm not expecting him to be WWE Champion. That's not what I'm expecting. But why not add him at some point down the line to the United States Championship picture? Because we have a couple of bodies in that division. But I don't think it's enough bodies in that division to really keep it going strong. Because after a while, you're gonna get over just seeing the program that you're seeing right now with Baron Corbin and Trick Williams. People are asking, where's Carmelo Hayes? We lost Delia Dragunov. There needs to be, I think, more bodies there at some point. So if we can kind of just get Johnny Gargano back to a point where we can rely on him to be a weekly wrestler on the show, I think that for me is a big win as a fan.

13:36Okay, I love that. Now, my next question is, Johnny in my opinion, the best presentation is as an underdog. Feels like to me the past several years that Johnny has been on the main roster. He had a bit of a break. He's been on the main roster. Either he's been off television or when he does appear, he has a good showing and he gets a respect pop from the people. But he doesn't have that emotional, for non NXT watching people, fans, they don't have that connection. Sure, he gets the reception. But to me, it's like an obligatory respect pop in a way. I need something to emotionally hook me to Johnny Gargano. Look, we all know Johnny Gargano, the underdog story from the independence to NXT, getting to the main roster, etc., etc.

14:38I need to see him overcome something. Not this depression angle. Not this depression angle. Yeah. Now, I would agree with you. I want to see him in the United States championship level. Putting on the banger matches that he is known for. That top level is a little bit too crowded for me and he just doesn't have that equity right now. Does not taking anything away from the performer. He just doesn't have that equity. This was great as a one off in the hometown. Let's carry that momentum forward, but let's rebuild. Let's rebuild. Yes, fans will continue to pop perhaps for the next few weeks. Say next week he beats someone and the next week he beats someone. That reaction in my opinion is going to start to dwindle. I think the best way to position him is to bring him down a little and then let him let him struggle, let him overcome.

15:40He gets his ass kicked. He keeps coming back. He keeps coming back. Then he works his way up. U.S. title and then slowly, slowly. I think that's the logical progression for Johnny. But again, capitalization is the key weekly television time. Just keep him engaged. Keep him engaged. Coming up next, we continue to discuss what went down with CM Punk's WWE Championship. The fastest growing pro wrestling show on the planet. Who could you see as a possible feud for Johnny that would benefit him? I would say trick Williams, especially in that position, right? Carmelo Hayes. Oh God. Well, here's the thing though, is that Carmelo Hayes right now is still a baby face. So maybe not him. I would probably put him, feel like you only heal in that division. Is it only Baron Corbin? Because I'm thinking of those guys in that scenario and I'm thinking, okay, I'm only coming

16:41up with baby faces right now. But ideally, I mean, when I think of the lower card guys, I would think of those names. I would think of maybe doing something with trick Williams. I think trick Williams would learn a whole lot from being in there with Johnny Gargano. I mean, Carmelo Hayes is another one and I'm thinking like, who else is in that division that can do something there with him? Of course, I'd already mentioned Baron Corbin, but it kind of feels like a little bit of limited options at that level. But I do agree with you when it comes to building back up because I think you got to let the, because you're right about, there's not that, when CM Punk comes out, you get this massive reaction. You've been following the stories. You've been biting into something for a good amount of time. We don't have that with Johnny Gargano right now. And you're right about that. I think that that's the part where the fans need to build an emotional connection or find that, refine that emotional connection that they had with Johnny Gargano. But you know now that I realize that though, a lot of guys are struggling with that on

17:45SmackDown. I feel like there's a couple of names where you, you send them out there and there's not really like this give and take with the fans. And I think that is kind of like a struggle that we're seeing where certain, they only care about certain people. I've been noticing that for a while now, but now that I think about it more, it is a struggle that I think that a lot of like the lower card guys have been trying to, like they've been, they've been trying to connect with the crowd and it hasn't really happened. I would say the one that's connected the most is Trick Williams. But even then that kind of feels like it's kind of, I'm not going to say it's come to a halt because it hasn't. But I don't think it's as hot as it was in the very beginning. I would agree with that. Now you left out one name, it just popped in my head right now. It's another guy that we haven't seen position really in any way on SmackDown. Ricky Starks. Yeah, yeah, and that's, yeah, he's the one that I think unfortunately hasn't had that

18:46like connection with the fans yet. And I wonder if that's why we haven't seen him on TV because one of the other guys who was kind of like that was Royce Keys. Royce Keys would go out there, but he wasn't getting that like, oh yeah, like that kind of reaction from the fans. And now he's over on the RAW side, he's got OTM and that's added a lot more to him. I wonder if we need, I don't know, we just need something. We need a reason and I think that the fans right now don't have a reason for example with Ricky. They're like, we like Ricky sure, but what is there? Like tell me, tell me what there is to really get behind up and I feel like that is along the lines of what we're going to maybe be seen with like Johnny Gargano after all of this. But I feel, I actually feel Johnny Gargano might have better positioning though because again, the fans remember that they like him. They just need to see it every week, whereas like somebody like Ricky, they're like, okay, well tell me why I should boo this guy or tell me why I should cheer this guy. One or the other. Yeah, it's a tough situation being a young star.

19:49It's a two hour show. You can't get on TV because you don't have that equity and without getting on TV, you can't build that equity. And really WWE can focus on one or two young stars at a time. I see Tatum Paxley in that position right now for the women and on the men on SmackDown. It's rough. It's tricky. It's tricky. It's tricky. I was trying to think of who that could be. Trick Williams. And even then, like I was loving what they were doing so much more like in the beginning, like when he was going out there and conferencing all these random people that you weren't expecting him to confront like Randy and Samine, you're like, yeah, there. What are you doing, Trick? Like you're coming out here and conferencing this person. I hope that I hope a couple of things that I know we'll get to that later, but just for the sake of it, I hope they make some changes with Trick Williams creative. When it comes to, I think I would like that partnership with Lil Yachty to be nearing

20:52an end. I think that has kind of held him back to a certain degree. And I would also like to see him kind of wrap this stuff up with Baron Corbin, maybe go in a different direction and even see Baron Corbin go in a different direction. Because when I think of guys that I also want to see like level up and not be doing what they're doing, it's Damien Priest, Raj. Like I think Damien Priest is being like kind of feels like he's taking a couple of step backwards right now in the tag team division with our truth. And they've been fun here and there. They've had some cool little allow moments, but I feel like Damien Priest, remember when he not too long ago, a couple of weeks ago, he had that confrontation with Cody Rhodes. And he mentioned something along the lines of like, it's always you guys the same guy getting the same opportunities. Nothing ever came from that. Like why didn't we get anything out of that? And that's one of the things that I would love for Damien Priest to be like, you know what? That's it. I'm breaking out something, but like you said, we're in a two hour show up until January. January is when we're supposed to supposedly reportedly supposed to go back to the three

21:54hours. We'll see, but that's apparently when that's supposed to happen. To me, Damien Priest is in a little bit of a holding pattern where they give him a little bit of television time. They use his built in equity for a world champion, partnership with Artreau, this entertaining. There's not a lot of meat on the bone there, but what I do think though is that promo that you alluded to with Cody Rhodes that it's the same people in the circle. I think that's setting up a heel turn for Damien and that's his big gripe. That's what he comes in just clean house. Now whoever's in that golden circle, he comes in and just wipes them out. I love that idea. Yeah, we haven't really seen a heel Damien Priest outside of the Judgment Day, right? Judgment Day. That's been a long time and that was when the Judgment Days were the Judgment Days of the Judgment Day. That's when they were heels and even then that was forever ago. That was when Rhea Ripley was still in the group and that was when she was dating Dominic and all of that. I think that's the last time, if I remember correctly, that we saw Damien Priest as a heel

22:55because he wasn't in a heel when he won the World title. He wasn't a heel when he was obviously feuding with Goon Thur. Then after that, he was just him. Yeah. I'd love to see him turn a heel and perhaps that's that story line for Johnny Gargano. I like that. What if he's also thinking about Johnny Gargano and Damien Priest? I like that. But the thing with that one is who do you put over in the end? Honestly, I would say Damien Priest. I think Damien Priest has, I think Damien Priest proved multiple times that he was someone that you should count on because, okay, for example, even remember his recent feud, the last big feud that I remember him having was the Woman Drew McIntyre. I thought they did a pretty damn good job. All of those backstage attacks that they were doing, I think what killed why that feud doesn't feel as memorable to people is because the big blowoff happened at Saturday Night's

23:56main event. When Saturday Night's main event was basically still being ruined by all of the commercial breaks that we were seeing on NBC or wherever I forgot where they were doing that. But I feel like because of that, people don't really talk about that feud. They don't really feel like they were, I know they remember it, but they don't really talk about it. To me, I thought they were doing good work over there, but they kind of just got buried within everything else that was going on. They didn't feel like the biggest story, but if you were paying attention to that story, that story was fun. When I see examples of things like that, and then I remember some of the feuds that he had on Monday Night Raw, that part, all of that feels good to me. Whenever Rhea Ripley comes back, they're really good friends. I would love it if we got like a little, before Rhea Ripley got injured, they wouldn't do a couple of moments backstage, like a couple of little, hey, hey, kind of things. I would like to see something like that again because I feel like anytime you got Rhea

24:56and Damian together, Rhea has such a massive fan base that they love and appreciate Damon Priest anytime he's with her, and that kind of gives him this extra boost. Yeah, I know what you mean, the rub. He's going to rub you over here. Exactly. The terror twins, right? The terror twins. Exactly, yes, the terror twins. Now in that positioning of Damian Priest, we put Priest above Gargano, perhaps in this feud, right? Does that now create a position for Johnny Gargano where he is the proverbial rung on the ladder? I would say yes and no. I think there's a good chance that that can happen, but I don't know, Raj, I'm a little bit, like I'm starting to wonder if, maybe you're right about this just being a one off for him. As I think more about it, I'm like, damn, because here's the thing, if you were to tell me Denise, what do you want out of all of this? We got Kevin Owens, we got Goon Thurley, we got Finn Balor, and we got KO and all these people in Sammy.

25:57What do you want from this? I will tell you right now that I, look, I don't know how they're going to eventually settle all of this with all of these guys. Everybody's been throwing out ideas like elimination chamber and Hell in a cell and ladder match and tournament and all of these ideas that been thrown out by fans, right? I don't know what they're going to eventually land on, but the thing is that I'm hungry to see what they do here. I want to see, I'm more still care about the idea of one getting Goon Thurley back to a place where he feels like a real menace on the show. Two, I want to see Finn Balor kind of re, Finn Balor were to win the championship again. That would be fantastic because we've been waiting such a long time. Then Kevin Owens, man, Kevin Owens, he's another one. So I'm kind of hungerier to see those guys eventually get their hands on the title once again. I don't want those guys to get knocked down a peg for somebody else right now. All of those names that you mentioned have such an emotional connection with the fans.

27:01They have so much built in equity and that equity comes with time and television time and matches and feuds and storylines and setbacks and overcoming injuries and time off and losses. But it takes time for that equity. It takes positioning. So yeah, I really think Damien Priest could really benefit from being heated up again because he does have that backstory. He has that built in equity. And perhaps this is a part of Johnny Gargano's story. If, say if he does go in a feud with someone like Damien Priest ends up putting them over, it's all a part of the story. It's all a part of the story. And I know fans sometimes get discouraged but losses are this person to be this person but we fail to realize that this is a part of the story. This is all a part of the story. So when Oba Femi beats Braun Breaker. Here's the thing. I want to get into this later on. I'm going to have fun with that one. I want to get into this later on.

28:03Yeah. Again, it's part of the story. It does not matter in the grand scheme of things. Switch the full three hours of busted open every day of the week at 9 a.m. Eastern on WWE Radio on Sirius XM Channel 156.