Postpartum support expert on impact Clancy trial, psychosis symptoms and more (extended interview)

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2:05Wendy, thank you for joining us. This is a very important conversation. As you know, the Lindsey Clancy trial has renewed national attention on postpartum mental health. It's generated a lot of debate and speculation on social media online from your perspective and from your expertise. Is this conversation helping to raise awareness or is it creating new misconceptions about postpartum disorders? This is both raising awareness and increasing misperceptions about perinatal mental health disorders, which means pregnancy postpartum and post pregnancy loss. As if everybody wants to follow what's happening, everyone's kind of obsessed with it, but we want people to be really focused on what is known about resources, what's known about mental health related to pregnancy and that there are resources and ways for people to

3:09find help. And talk to us about, you know, we know that social media has amplified everything from expert analysis to conspiracy theories surrounding the case. How does misinformation affect women and families who may be already struggling with postpartum depression, anxiety and other maternal mental health conditions? I really think that the biggest obstacle to care for temporary and treatable conditions related to pregnancy mental health, the biggest obstacle is stigma, fear and shame. So the most important thing that we can do is normalize this conversation, let people know there are reliable, non-judgmental resources. When we see conversations and misinformation on the internet by all kinds of experts, armchair experts and misinformed public health professionals, our shame, our fear, our fear

4:16of judgment increases. What that does is that it keeps people from doing what they really need to do, which is to reach out for help for reliable resources. As high profile cases like this when they're dominating headlines, do organizations such as postpartum support international do typically see more women and families seeking information, screening or support like asking for more help? Has there been an uptick? Postpartum support international sees an uptick in people reaching out for support whenever there is high profile, whenever there are high profile cases in the news. We are certainly seeing an uptick in people reaching out to us at postpartum.net for help. We provide free, non-judgmental, reliable and form support through text and telephone

5:18as well as web form. People can come right to the website or call the help line, which you can find at postpartum.net. What happens is we're finding that people are contacting us more, it's true, and they need more reassurance. Fortunately, we can give them that. We can give, we can provide a listening ear, we can give them reassurance, and we can connect them to the actual experts who exist, who know how to treat, prevent, support, and take care of families who are dealing with mental health challenges during pregnancy and postpartum. Can you talk about if, and we've been following this for these last couple of summits that you've given me, but do trials like this, does there some sort of like sensational nature of the coverage that sometimes deter people from reaching out? Because they let's say that there might be a mom or a dad that do have postpartum depression, a postpartum

6:24anxiety, but they might feel less inclined to seek help because of these big headlines, because they don't want to be associated or categorized with these extreme cases. Is there, and then what do you tell these people that they do need help, but they are, has a tend to reach out because they're scared of the stigma, and then they might be suffering from depression or anxiety, but they might think, listen, I'm not at that extreme, so I'm not even going to raise my hand to seek for resources. With increased sensationalism and misinformation, all over the internet and everyone's talking about it, people might be afraid that I don't want to be part of that, so they are more afraid to reach out. Here's what we want people to know. We don't want to wait until there's a crisis. Postpartum support international, which you can find

7:25at postpartum.net always leads with this message, which is you don't need a diagnosis to reach out for help. You don't need a crisis to reach out for help. What we want people to know is there are peer support, a free support line, and people can call and ask any question. We want to normalize talking about our emotions and mental health during this time of life, which is mental health complications happen very frequently. We want people to reach out before there's a crisis, and no, you can contact postpartum support international. Here, have someone listen to you, not in a sensational way, but in a way because we know these symptoms of anxiety, depression, and other symptoms of perinatal mental health complications are temporary, they're treatable, they're common, and we can prevent a crisis if we all start normalizing. Let's just talk about it.

8:31So, no one needs to have a formal diagnosis or to be in a crisis situation to reach out. If people reach out to postpartum support international, what they're going to get is connection, a listening ear, reassurance, and then referrals and resources to the next place they need. The biggest missing piece for all of us, families and providers, is that there are resources to get help to prevent a crisis, and people are not aware enough that they exist. And then just to follow up, thank you for that. Another explainer here. So, many people here, the terms like postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, postpartum psychosis, perhaps used interchangeably. And then I'm not even talking about, you know, like through during the trial or or from health experts, this could just be, you know, the TikTok mom, the mommy blogger, you know,

9:33they, you know, so on your mom group chat, you know, and so can you explain the differences and where these conditions fall along the spectrum of maternal mental health disorders? Like is there how far or separate wide of the spectrum is there between these different diagnosis? When we talk about mental health related to pregnancy, there are three things to know. One is that symptoms of difficulty, just feeling emotionally distressed, or symptoms of depression or anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, mood swings, exhaustion are very common. What we want families to do is reach out for help so we, an organization like postpartum support international can kind of talk them through that. You ask about the range of symptoms, and that, the first thing I want to say

10:33it's the range of time too, that this is through the whole pregnancy and postpartum. The second thing to know is it's not just depression. People struggling with mental health complications during this time. Yes, might be very depressed, sad, crying. They also might feel numb. They often, often feel very, very anxious and agitated. There's often trouble just relaxing and sleeping, not feeling like yourself, and that that can go all the way from kind of it comes and goes to a persistent mood and lethargy, hopelessness and helplessness all the way to more severe symptoms. The third thing to know is that men, dads experience these symptoms too. There is help, resources, treatment, options, and support groups, peer support through an organization like postpartum support international provides that support they need. People do often misunderstand that what are we talking about

11:37and they're afraid of being kind of diagnosed. If all of us understood that there's a range of symptoms, but the most important thing is reach out with any questions so that the symptoms don't become worse. There's also a range of treatment options for any of these symptoms. Most people dealing with pregnancy and postpartum mental health symptoms are afraid to reach out for help. What we have to understand is that people don't understand, they don't think they're going through depression and anxiety. Most people don't know what's happening. They just think they're failing. They're afraid to reach out for help. They don't know resources exist and sometimes yes, when you go online, you feel worse. So that's why it's so important for someone to know, oh, there's people who actually know what we're talking about here. I could call or text this line, postpartum support international or the national maternal mental health hotline and I can simply ask what is

12:40happening for me? What should I do? Is there anyone who can help me? And there are thousands of providers. There are thousands of volunteers that provide peer support. There are treatment options and it all begins with understanding. We have to normalize this. We have to let people know don't be afraid to reach out for help. When you call or text PSI, we understand this. Our volunteers have already been through this and recovered and they know, oh, this is temporary, treatable and it's not the person's fault for having it. But as I said, when you're struggling with this and it's never happened to you before, you don't, you think you're failing as a parent. That's not what's happening. Looking to fit your crew, haul your cargo or take a road trip, there's a Honda for that. Want big savings on the full Honda lineup? Gas, hybrids and EVs. There's a Honda for that. Want the brand with the most car and driver's 10 best awards? With 98 trophies and kbb.com's best

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14:47Bring Toastitos to your next game night and you'll be winning either way. Toastitos, tradition matters. And for viewers who may be unfamiliar with postpartum psychosis, how rare isn't compared with depression and anxiety, and what are the key warning signs that families should know? Well, we understand that the symptoms of postpartum depression and anxiety occur in up to one in five mothers and fathers, right? So up to one in five. It's the most common complication of pregnancy and childbirth. The symptoms of postpartum psychosis occur in one to two per thousand births. That's potentially up to one in five hundred. It is less common than depression, the anxiety related to pregnancy and postpartum, but we don't call it rare anymore. And the reason for that is that we need to understand that if this, if we're at risk of one in five

15:53hundred women related to pregnancy, could experience symptoms of postpartum psychosis, and I'll tell you what those symptoms are. But if we're aware that up to one in five hundred women could experience perinatal psychosis, we know we have to put attention and focus and resources into assessing and understanding and detecting and getting women help before there's a crisis. The symptoms of psychosis always involve a break with reality. What's really complicated about this diagnosis is it doesn't appear the same in all women who have postpartum psychosis. The symptoms don't appear the same. They can come and go and these are well-known facts by experts and researchers who've been in this field for decades now. So the symptoms of postpartum psychosis

16:53are a break with reality, disordered thinking, potentially delusions, like full paranoid delusions about what's happening. And then the auditory or visual hallucinations, hearing or seeing things that are not real that are not there can come and go. The woman can, it confusing to her family, also feels like her logic comes and goes, she can appear to be completely detached from reality on one hour and the next hour look very functional or all at once. So at the height of that, if a woman is experiencing postpartum psychosis in hearing has delusions and having auditory hallucinations, what we call voices, that reality can emerge for her to become more and more true, more and more compelling in that psychotic state, more and more pushing her to act in a way that

18:01is completely detached from reality. And that is very, very different from postpartum depression and anxiety. We do want families to know this. If you have postpartum depression and anxiety, it doesn't snap, it doesn't turn into psychosis. You can see in all cases there is, sometimes it's rapid, but there is a distinct switch and that's why the resources assessment and families and providers talking with each other is so, so important. But if families are worried that I don't know what's going on, there are resources available for them to call and be connected with peer support and experts who can help them really understand what symptoms are happening. And that's a great follow up, or a segment to my follow up question here. What signs should family members, spouses, partners and close friends or neighbors be watching that indicate that a new parent

19:03may need professional support? If people often ask us, what signs should we be watching for? How do you know when someone needs professional support? And my first answer is always this, if you have any questions at all, don't hesitate. Don't hesitate to reach out, especially since we know there are free and reliable resources, like postpartum support, international that acts as a navigator at Clearinghouse, both to talk about what symptoms might be happening, but also talk about when should we worry? When should we ramp it up and go to a professional or go to the emergency department or call 988 for crisis prevention? Peer support and organizations like postpartum.net can help you navigate that and the national maternal health hotline, the national maternal mental health hotline, which is available 24-7 365 English and Spanish and both of these resources are available in multi-languages.

20:08They can help you answer that question. I can tell you now that if you have missed making that phone call early on before there's a crisis, there are absolutely signs and symptoms that warrant sometimes immediate assessment intervention. In the case of talking about postpartum psychosis or a break from reality, if at any time that you're the woman is experiencing, she's deeply confused, disoriented or disconnected from reality, if I'm going to say the most extreme symptoms first, if she's hearing or seeing things that don't exist, expressing or hinting at fixed false beliefs, paranoia, feeling that people are surveilling her when they're not. Anytime, anytime someone is talking about

21:12suicide or harm to baby, we need to act on that. However, it's really important for everyone to know and reach out to these reliable resources to understand the difference between what we call obsessive, unwanted, intrusive thought that sometimes parents get of like they picture harm to baby, but they have no urge, they have no plan, and they have no bizarre beliefs that it is okay. So that in that first way, that's an anxiety symptom, and that actually lots of new parents have a recurring, unwanted image of like, what if something bad happens? What if that bad thing happens? When do we worry about that? We worry when it's persistent and connected to all of these other symptoms of bizarre thoughts of going in and out, of seeming really lucid, and then seeming devoid and detached from reality. Anytime there's any indication of hallucinations, auditory, or

22:17visual, then we're talking about disorder thinking and a psychotic state, but this is key, key information. Every perinatal mental health disorder, including postpartum psychosis, is treatable. Every single one, we have to intervene early, we have to share this information that you're bringing to families today, we have to share this information with providers of all kinds. Providers can be trained and supported, they can consult, and that's why postpartum sport international access to clearinghouse, because an organization like PSI doesn't treat people, we help them find the right treatment, and sometimes we just help them find answers to the question that then encourage them to go back to their providers. So what should new parents know about working with healthcare providers to find the right treatment plan, and continuing of care during that postpartum period, like what challenges can arise when patients are seeing multiple providers,

23:22and choices to name between treatments and all these cocktail of drugs. There are evidence-based resources that families and providers can contact, understand, what are the possible uses of medication, including psychiatric medication during pregnancy, during breastfeeding, and postpartum, mother to baby, infant risk center, women's mental health.org, there are so many reliable resources. We know the research shows us that the use of medication with assessment and follow-up and connection, and ongoing connection with the provider who's prescribing medication, is reliable. There is a lot of research about the risks and benefits. We also know this, that very, very often when people start on medication, psychiatric medication, there is trial and error. People are often, they try certain medication, and it may take

24:26a while for it to work and to feel good. There are often side effects in the beginning. We really emphasize the need for someone who's prescribed medication to keep in touch with their provider, but again, that is where the peer support and the free resources come into play because you can call performed sport international, color tech. You can contact the national maternal mental health hotline and say, I'm on this new medication. It's this normal, it's this common, and they'll refer you to other resources like that. We know that people should not be afraid of using medication to treat symptoms that are keeping them from living their lives on a daily level, but we also know that people have the right to reach out and say, I'm not comfortable in this medication. What's happening for me? What else can we do? What we know, as I said, is there reliable sources of information about using psychiatric medication? Casual non-expert content creators on the internet are not

25:35those sources of information. And lastly, if there's one last thing, I hope the public takes away from this moment of so much nationwide attention, what is it? If there's one thing, we at Post-Burn and Spur international want people to take away from this moment, it is this. We have to do a better job of listening to parents who are struggling, suffering. We have to understand that the transition of pregnancy and parenthood is bumpy for everybody, but for at least one in five pregnant and post-partum people, it's more than bumpy. They are having symptoms. We are having symptoms that will get better with help. When we want people to know there are resources, both for families and for providers, and we want people to normalize talking about mental health. We talk

26:42about so many things during pregnancy and post-partum that are about physical health. We're so used to being asked all of these physical questions. We need to normalize as a whole healthcare system, as a whole society normalize talking about mental health. And especially at a time when it is the most prevalent time of our lives to have these symptoms, we need to normalize that this should be as common a conversation is talking about your temperature, your appetite, how's the baby sleeping? This is the key conversation that is going to keep people able to be there full cells and to treat temporary and treatable symptoms that are commonly that come up during pregnancy and post-partum. And if you don't get the help you need, keep preaching out. Contact postpartum.net and let us help you find the next place because that also happens. People give up because they feel like they

27:46got the wrong answer. They felt worse and we want people don't give up. Find us at postpartum.net. It has we have all the other resources that branch out from there so that we can all prevent a crisis together. Real talent is defined by what people can do, not where they learn to do it. So by stopping at the education section of a resume, you might throw away the perfect hire. Skills First Hiring helps you see talent others miss. Like more than 70 million stars, skilled through alternative routes. Let their story unfold and gain a competitive advantage because hiring managers who start with skills are 60% more likely to find a successful hire. Hire skills first. Learn why at tetherpapershealing.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council.