Policing Packed Lunches: Points of View

0:00Welcome to TITUES TORK radio! Thank you for listening! Thanks for downloading this episode from TITUES TORK radio. You can find the full schedule and listen back to all our shows at ttradio.org. Enjoy the podcast! Well, how long there and good evening to this TITUES TORK radio. We we still have a discussion about what was she discussed tonight. We discussed what we were going to discuss. What my top was was good lunches. When she started a whole kind of rubber, whole wagon wheels, pick a peg, penguin, we discussed what club that we thought was the best. We had club meant club orange and some of us really lived some of our childhood understanding how obviously important school lunches were. And that was prompted because damn purely, now I have no idea because apparently she's on one of these shows great British big old, she's a judge. I don't watch strictly conferencing or I eat a spider in the jungle or

1:06I don't do any of that. I never watch big brother. I'm not watching people sitting on their sofa while I'm watching. I'm sitting there and a sofa for me and a sofa. I've never been one for reality television. Call it Lou Bray. I do watch television to give me a good documentary. I think that's more what nature is meant to be rather. People stage to bake off this out. They are fantastic. Not night things. No disrespect whatsoever. I can't tell you who want to go for this or voice that or pronounce this bra and not don't. So this individual who's damn purely from sure start people out there screaming and they go and like how can you not look at this person? I don't care. I'm telling you. Oh, really, really, really awesome. I thought it was a school. Oh, no, it's cool. But this this individual is called damn pure leaf. It's a Scottish name. So she probably has maybe a marionette name. I don't know much about it. But let's get to this story. So she says that she wants to ban. I mean, here we are banning things again. We ban everything. But we want she wants to ban slow lunches and lunch boxes. So seriously, there's my old transformers

2:07and lunch box type. But that'd be banned from school because that was always the thing. What you had on your lunch box, but what was on your lunch box was also extremely important. But under damn pure leaf, you know, raging stool lunches, lunch boxes and anything associated with anything outside sort of school dinner would be banned. And the reason being is because it can't be monitored and that what's in the lunch box is I think she's having to go out, you know, the child pest to power that what's in lunch boxes is not appropriate. Too much sugar, too much salt, too much processed food. It's a bit of a Jamie Oliver for lunch boxes scenario where the junk food and and what we've what against now. Yeah, let's be honest with you. A lot of children take lunches. Like I took lunches at school because the school dinner was weren't appropriate. You know, used to get, you know, all I can describe is the school potatoes in Ireland. And this is terrible considering it's Ireland. We're like basically ice cream. I mean, when you have to put potatoes out with an ice cream scoop, I'm sorry, that's not. Call me a potato for the official

3:09adult. Maybe I mean stereotypical here. But when a dinner lady is scooping out your potatoes with an ice cream thing, you know, they're not properly. And don't get me started in semolina on tabioka because that was just frogs eyes for dessert. You looked up and you held up and going like, why am I oven? Why am I having potatoes scooped out with an ice cream scoop and why am I having frogs eyes for dessert? So with all of you just back back in the 80s and 90s, which gave me Oliver, our school dinners were terrible. I'm going to be started in the beef because you could probably have with Robert. You could chuck that stuff with people and knock them right with it because it is literally like, you know, cut the scooping out. I have a school dinner at school and I know the ladies very well. They feed me. They are probably responsible for my body mass index of the moment. And they do a brilliant brilliant job. So school dinners are a lot, lot better than used to be. They have become a bit more expensive. But I think what she is trying to suggest is that children where it comes to the lunch box can choose what they put in the lunch box and they're going to choose the really, there's not the good choices. The

4:11sugary snacks, the fruity stuff, the stuff that my own children and they are doing my head in with snacks. I have to hide snacks in a cupboard which is over there and they are absolutely visciferous. I have to hide things in places you cannot imagine because my kids are absolutely like pigs with truffles and they do it. Any parent will tell you there is daddy when can I have a snack. There's your dinner there. You didn't eat your dinner. Oh no, hungry. You didn't eat your dinner. No snacks and I'm pretty pretty strict on that. But kids do pester you. Kids do pester. Maybe she's got a point about the world that we live in now. The kid is saying, I want this and I lunch box are the parents who are these days saying yes darling I will give you every win. Remember are we meeting children's needs? Are meeting their demands. So maybe she has a point with children making demands of what I want this and I want that which still make a lot of children's time right there extras in the Willy Wonka movie like Veronica Salt. I do think don't they. I'm on forums tonight with my culture references. I like some enjoying it. So I've got no left to stand on in conversation.

5:18Because everyone knows I'm a really big snacker and all of it is extremely unhealthy. I've got a filing. I've always had a filing cabinet in my classroom files in it just snacks just loads of stock clerk crisps sweets, etc. That's always been rated by teachers from other departments. So I've now started to use a key but some of my friends will know what your colleagues are like my children. I don't know how you say these days JP because when I was a kid I was packed lunch. Well, I feel like it's really common to have a packed lunch in primary school and then not have one in secondary. That was really normal for me growing up and my mom would put it like there were just some non-negotiables so like a sandwich or whatever was a non-negotiable like I don't think I could have ever said to my mom like don't put a sandwich in my like that was always seen as like the main kind of lunch. I feel like that was normal for school trips and stuff but

6:21so it was also normal for my packed lunch but in terms of everything else yeah she'd put fruits and stuff in there and yeah I would always eat everything in my lunch box but she would also get me whatever snacks I wanted from the supermarket and I used to love these I used to love these donuts that got discontinued in Tesco. This was a long time ago anyway but it was it was like a box of like mini donuts that came with two dips so it came with a chocolate dip and then a chocolate sprinkles dip and I I asked for a bigger lunch box so that I could fit that whole box of donuts into my lunch box and I just used to give it out like my friends and I used to sit there eating it and like no one ever intervened like the dinner ladies like they used to ask for some so like I don't know like I just think I'm so tired of like these tv foodies like policing school like when I was in school I remember when they just suddenly banned like bending machines and sugar and all of this stuff because Jamie Oliver said something on the BBC and so like from you have any wishes you have any machines donuts like anything like the kind of stuff you'd

7:29want to eat in like second season like yeah it was going to be abandoned before you're honest that got absolutely evangelized and you know what everyone in the school like all the teachers used to I don't know if this is true but they used to all scapegoat Jamie Oliver and just say well you know it's above us you know Jamie Oliver said that it's you know there's an obesity epidemic in the country so that's why we've got rid of it the only sugar I had in secondary school after Jamie Oliver said whatever he said on TV was one spoon of ketchup on a Friday with fish and chips and I do remember that being a lesson on you know healthy eating and all of that stuff which we did learn as part of the PSH curriculum it was something we covered in science like I was there was so many points in the curriculum where I was taught about healthy eating or looking after myself or a balanced diet looks like and I just I don't know I feel like a lot of people who've made careers out of food on television just kind of meddle with schools and I just don't really feel like this is something that should be a thing like I think children should always have

8:32there are kids as well with allergies you know maybe some parents and some children will only feel comfortable if their food is controlled via pack lunch I loved always having the choice there were points in secondary school I received free school meals but there were times in secondary school I might have wanted a pack lunch I always had the option to take food with me to school if I wanted I think the thing the pack lunch is pack lunch for me I can only speaking was cheaper I think a lot of parents because you go you know apparently go in and buy you can go and buy in bulk and I just what is a john sandwich cost I mean seriously a soggy john sandwich you know put the butter on first and sometimes my mother put the jam on and the butter you holding up the you're holding up the hand I don't even go there I have to use myself I mean he didn't make the roll lunch he was the other thing I made a children make the roll lunch I don't I even know this then there are some affection that there are some affectionate of who are children you come in with you know also it's solid when I walk around the dining hall and I see what some of the children have hypered themselves it's actually quite amazing this generation of young people but some of

9:34them actually go off and do pests of salads yeah I've got a group of young young young kids and I tell you they're year seven year eight I think year eight the girls all it's like they don't tap us they have a table and literally like every lunchtime is like they've got the nuggets says they don't prepare that cakes and everything else security day and they have a little photo you know like an office photo it's quite cute it really amazing I think I want to happen back in order because the boys go like you know what do you got what do you got what do you got I got a gold bar all right I'll give you a pack of the purse for a gold bar we used to do that I mean that's the other thing we used to get our luck contents of a lunch box you know you know you're looking dead and you go right what have I got you have so much great egg and onion sandwich that's gonna stink later on isn't that you go moment oh thanks for that my I'm like seriously that's gonna make me popular with everybody else my stinky egg and onion sandwich and not just any onion on the inside squeeze out egg and onion sandwich this has gone absolutely everywhere in other words the egg and onion sandwich that you squeezed out of a bag under your books you have teacher holds up for book and you're thinking let's make it on the inside of you're getting a homework today you know what's going so why

10:38why blame schools like I think the bigger issue is the corner shops that surround schools that supply children and the things I'm I'm I'm often on the door in the morning I've you know in all the years I've been SLT I've often done all duty in the mornings and you know the amount of boost bottles I confiscate before nine in the morning or energy drinks kept coming in with red ball I remember when I was a kid like corner shop that I've never looked my age and so when I was in secondary school I looked about eight and so I was definitely one of those kids who used to get stopped and told oh you can't buy red ball you're not over 16 but how come now I see a sevens eights nines always like having red ball in the mornings I have to let it's a battle to get it off them kids with packets of sweet like massive bags of crystals or haribo like even a lot of kids buy vapes in these corner shops too like I just think this is a lot bigger than schools and like why give teachers even more work to do like imagine having to spend your lunchtime

11:41duty now having to police anyone getting a jam sandwich out of their pocket like all their bag or whatever like as if we don't have enough to monitor in a school day like it's just just let people have the freedom to choose what it is that they want to eat so long as they're eating that's what's important to me absolutely I just have to say as a parent of a Fussy eater like his capacity to take a pack lunch into school means that I feel assured that whether he eats the school dinners that he's entitled to because he's been in year one he's going into year two or not I know that he has the option to eat something that I know he's going to eat in the day which means I know that he's sustained for the day for the afternoon and that gives me reassurance that he will eat I am by no means alone in that there are lots of people who have children I was reading about

12:43arford which is kind of an increasingly diagnosed thing about children who really restrict their food intake and will only eat safe foods and so if you were a parent of a of a child with arford you would be desperate in this situation sending them into school and you're not allowed to send them in with a pack lunch and any kind of safe food I appreciate that there probably would be exceptions to as there are with all the like toilet passes and things like that I appreciate that if this were brought in as this rule there would be exceptions made but even then it feels like a little bit of a slippery slope like where do you draw the line with that I just like Jasmine says a fed child is important that's what's really really important school days six and a half hours if a child doesn't eat during the day that's a long period of time for a child not to have something to eat and yes it shouldn't be sugary snacks it shouldn't I absolutely get that I think it's possible to like we have not free environments for schools and things like that it's possible

13:46for requests to be made about how a how a lunch box is created effectively from home please do not send your child in with this this and this and still allow that to take place I I feel very uncomfortable with the idea of it I think it's wrong I think the idea of celebrities people on tv in their ivory towers of summer they have the luxury of making big sweeping statements don't without any responsibility of even articulating how they believe that might work in practice and that's what this is this is another person making a generalized sweeping statement that to them seems dead easy because on the surface let's fan pack lunches and make everybody go back to school dinners seems dead easy doesn't it yeah great brilliant we'll know what the kids are eating will make sure they're healthy but if we think about the practicalities of it as you mentioned allergies the government have just updated their new allergy advice around what schools responsibility is

14:50for how to deal with allergies including ask them but you know in particular anaphylaxis gets a good mention in there I can think of in the time I've been a teacher kids with multiple severe allergies to food items or things that that you would you would commonly find around so you mentioned nuts there's yet great you would think it's quite straightforward to say it to a school where we're not free school brilliant great well my schools are not free school that's what we put out but what about the kids who allergic to eggs what about the kids who allergic to any form of dairy and that actually you've got a real white slayer allergy how is a school kitchen catering for in a secondary upwards of a thousand fifteen hundred kids in practical purposes going to cater never mind your religious dietary needs your vegetarian vegans your your dietary needs by choice there is literally

15:52no way that any type of school panting could manage all of those things with choice with health my brothers of vegetarian the amount of beige and cheese products that person that man eats is is unreal because that's what happens when you're a vegetarian and you want to be convenient and you don't have time to make proper decent stuff that weekends are only for that schools would inevitably have to go back down to the quickest easiest cheapest and most straightforward way to me all of those needs and then you would just end up with the one poor unfortunate child who picked multiple boxes of being you know a vegan but allergic to dairy and nuts and and it would be sitting quietly in the corner the only child in their year group on a pack lunch with everybody else going well how come

16:53he or she is allowed to to do that it's not it's not a practical workable idea and I think I'm old enough to remember that maybe feels like it might be ten years ago could have been last week primary schools tried to start doing that after Jamie Oliver ruined everybody's school dinner experience at that point and fairly certain there was news paper stories where primary schools had been in trouble because teachers had been confiscating food items from children saying it wasn't in line with their policy and they were nicking off with your jam sandwich probably not the cheese sorry egg and onion because what is that but no there were confiscating items taking things away and it's it's not a workable and I've noticed just in the comments there that that doctor doctor Wayne Readers just said that you can manage a full menu and I'm not entirely sure that that is

18:00not what it goes. Teachers have always played a vital role in shaping AQA qualifications as assessment reform approaches the questions being asked about the future of education matter more than ever and so do the voices helping to answer them that's why AQA has launched the AQA teacher insight program over the next 12 months the program will bring together teachers views and experiences through research engagement and AQA's partnership with teacher tap building a comprehensive picture of classroom experience to help inform the future of qualifications assessment and education. Such AQA assessment reform and have your say today. This show is brought to you in partnership with Hashtit Learning publishers are professional development books and resources that support great teaching and learning in schools around the world. Level up your professional development today and visit Hashtitlearning.com to explore the full range of titles. I don't but not for cost. Not the way our budgets are and with all due respect

19:06schools are under a lot of financial pressure. Free school meal budget would cripple it but also we'll hear. Oh sorry Liz do you want to finish your point and then because I was just no I was just going to say I don't know how many school canteens now are in house either so many of them are so I private companies now and they're kind of bought in and they tend to their contract don't they and and they are selected so we've kind of that privatisation by the back door isn't it that's that's happening with all these kind of elements of school. But I'll curiosity what I don't understand is schools don't necessarily keep records of how many children are packed lunch so in theory aren't they really catering to every single student when they're putting like when food is being served isn't it in theory available to every single child like imagine obviously I know that's probably never going to happen but imagine if on a particular day

20:12all of your children in a school who want to have lunch like forget like putting packed lunch aside all the children who want to have lunch then do go get school dinners. We have that problem no we have that problem called special check writing believe it or not we'd be better to you. Yes but don't schools normally cater to like their like I think yeah it is yes I mean the cater so you know all schools I've ever worked in have catered for dietary requirements on religious basis of you know not having so having halal food making sure that there's always something if sausages are on offer that there's something else in case of something that that people don't eat vegetarian offer it's hard to be vegan in a lot of secondary schools as far as I can work out was certainly schools I've worked in go offer a dairy alternative because everything is covered in cheese yeah pretty much all the time. What they're definitely

21:13definitely definitely don't cater for people with sensitivities or allergies even comp my school school dinners as far as I can understand it don't have anything that might contain nuts or anything like that that's kind of like a given but dairy sensitivity it's common it's common lots of people have got a dairy sensitivity especially lots of kids and that that wouldn't be something that would be safely avoidably catered for same with them that's the same way that I can that part I can understand and I completely like sympathise with any parent who would keep their child on packages throughout their school years because of like allergy reasons like that I think is completely understandable but I just mean like if you put those kind of like technicalities or like requirements aside like I'm just just out of curiosity because it's not something I really know too much about I just am interested in the volume or the amount of food that schools serve like surely

22:20it technically could cover all obviously there are all that like even pack lunches aside there are some kids who just don't have lunch if they don't like some kids just won't eat a school lunch they're just some boys look away and they're left up all and forget there's actually children who forget to have a lunch there's actually children and a good school will know one of the reasons why I patrol the dinner area it's not just the sort of help out the SLT but obviously it's a good place to have a good chat with the kids but sometimes I want to avoid the toxicity of other colleagues no we're all due respect you're sitting in a corner talking about school I don't want to be sitting doing that and rather actually engage with the young people so I have a habit of actually going into the dining hall sitting down with the children having lunch with the children just tradition and I'm actually modeling and saying here's a parcel here's a carrot and there are times I've actually followed the children and they're going what do you have them for lunch other one this what's that and I have I think it's told this story 90s time before but the ladies and the kitchens will sometimes put food on and what some vegetables on there what some carrots you get

23:22your honey rose carrots so that literally I'm at the point where I'm behind the kitchen sometimes serving the food so I've actually sometimes ended up getting served in the group to the kids because without short staffed in the kitchens and I know the the catering staff very very well they've been taken over externally and out sourced and the food today gets sent is not a food they're serving sometimes sometimes they're going to be I've got sent this stuff for the turn this chicken into something else they're very creative my my colleagues in the kitchens because what they get sent with this what they serve is not always there because they're told about waste they have to recycle foods who the toast at the break time is recycled into something at lunch time because profit margins and everything else like like most other things that has run as a business the quality of food served to our children has declined since junior all of her in the last five or six years because a lot of catering companies now have a letter in the gloves of all if he used to be chips with us once a week now it's pretty much every day I know the standards because it's making money isn't it correct it's making money so damn pure is saying about lunch box I

24:22think she's attacking the wrong angle I think we need Jamie Park too I think Jamie all of her need to come back in the schools and no no no no no you're this is this is boarding at home won't you get ahead of it? Sure you're right it's just triggering food no I see the phone slamming the but I see my child I know he didn't run your channel do that that's the concern you're probably that's the Tories that's called austerity that's called Brexit that's called called all bars I mean the police are you're sorry is room two yeah that's that I well people for them people run your child can I just interject on that because I don't know if people know who leases actually the mother of a conservative MP well that well sure she probably writes for certain late-wing press because I remember what his name is but he you'll all googlet in a second and I'll check someone googlet I'm also while while I have the while I have the floor I'm going to tell you about someone else who does cater for lots of needs professionally and that is our sponsors has shut learning not quite as good as Lucy Segway's but I tried my hardest

25:25if you are looking for practical ideas to use in the classroom has shut learning has a huge range of trusted books and resources for teachers school leaders and schools from evidence informed teaching and behavior to curriculum assessment and leadership their titles are written by some of the best known names in education and a full of strategies you can put into practice straight away they also offer a growing range of CPD to help support your professional development and if you would like to browse their latest resources their latest books please visit Heshett Learning today and I believe that's the WWW how was going to stay well I was going to make one yes move I'm going to make one observation from the last general election which I was involved in and for school dinners became something I wanted to talk about because the area I'm in increased to price of school that has been nearly 35% the plates that they were serving to the children got smaller so portions got smaller food quality got worse and the price went up in areas of

26:27deprivation the quality of food served to our children was not good and it is very much I think the slot that is sent from businesses we saw scandal after sound scandal during Covid where there were companies paid where they not huge amounts of money to serve school dinners and when we saw the slop that they were serving it was bloody dekenzy and victoria I was scandal after scandal if you think back to the Covid situation about the quality of food served to our because I know that I was involved to game with my colleagues in sending 45 food packages out to the wider community because our catering staff came in we used some of the budget sent to us to send out food packets to members of the community and I delivered those hand to the door to some children and their parents who were on the edge of all I can describe to you is deprived areas I know that much drop individuals of these days go 30 p.l. in all the rest of the cronies he's taken one billion pound a year at stand and pontificate he told me the coal the world the

27:32coal was sustainable because it's made of wood 250 million years to create pressure or not he's an ex-cold miner. Cooked the future government so that's the level of people who are going to try and run in this country and that's the the way they sort of understand the feeding children it's some higher terrible thing when you talk about free school meals when you talk about feeding children it's like you what's parents responsibility I'm sorry the state need to make sure our children are well fed because it's a national efficiency problem when I track back as an historian and the one of the reasons for the liberal reforms of the 19th century is that there was an actual sort of decry of if we go to war with the Germans our young man will be able to we're out of stage now we are seeing obesity epidemic's dentistry we saw the crisis of dentistry where our children's teeth these are seeding long-term health problems and what's the NHS is going to have to phone on taxpayers are going to have to so it is in the government's interest people's interest societies interest to make sure our children are well fed so I take the spirit of what purely it's said I do take the spirit of what she's said but I think she's going about it in the

28:35wrong way because if she really want to investigate the quality of food served to our children there are a lot of scandals aren't there a lot of companies big and a lot of profits in school and I think what they're serving our children is not fit for consumption so I would want somebody in the political system to weaponize that take a take and I was if I was going to be elected as an MP that was one of the things I was going to champion but nobody seems to want to talk about it so yes Jamie Oliver made me decry but he was right and he is right and we needed Jamie Oliver for two. Can I just to be clear can I just say I'm just making fun of Jamie Oliver like from the perspective of myself was like 12 year old better I was at the time when yeah when I because of him could only get one spoon of ketchup on a Friday and no longer had bending machines which I think any 12 year old would complain about in a school but you know jokes aside to be serious you did touch on something there that I was going to also mention and the thing for me is like I've googled a prudence because at the start of this episode as I said I thought that was a school I didn't

29:37realise that was a person so I've like googled her sins and I found the article and JP touched on it there but one of the like part of her rationale is to tackle obesity that's part of why she's put this forward and I just think for me a lot of things are kind of government design and I think if you want to tackle something like obesity rather than you know add yet another thing that parents and schools have to do differently what what's happened to say all the activities that used to be free for children things like swimming leisure centres you know sport centres what about you know things like libraries which I guess isn't you know directly linked to things like obesity but you know when I was a kid I grew up a poor child I was free school meals but my mum used to walk me to the library every once a fortnight and she used to get me to pick 12 books and you know we'd go to the park we'd go and do like there were so many free activities and things that I had access to because of the government as a child and that's something that massively helps me in my childhood

30:38on so many levels my health and my wellbeing my academic outcomes just just so much and a lot of these children who've grown up have been robbed of all of those things and I find that really really sad and you know that JP you even mentioned like tooth decay or you mentioned dentists I can't remember exactly what you said but you know how difficult is it now for a child to even get registered at a dentist or for someone to even find an NHS dentist it's really hard like a lot of like why a lot of people are having issues with their teeth children and adults are like not necessarily because of their diet alone of course that's probably the biggest contributing factor but because they aren't having the recommended six months check up that everyone is supposed to have on I think the NHS because you can't you just can't get a dentist anymore most people only take private patients now I don't know if it's different for children I don't have kids you know so I don't know if every child does automatically get a place in a dentist I don't know but like I do know

31:40at least in the case of adults or young adults like no what in London I'm in London you know in London in every single borough that I'm aware of there are based on where people live like the more deprived areas have worse outcomes for everything they've got worse life expectancy higher rates of asthma and other autoimmune conditions or inflammatory conditions like this is a really like it's a very complex issue with inextricably linked factors that's far bigger than just pack lunches whether or not you're receiving pack lunch or school dinners at school you know that there's is a widespread systematic issue and I personally feel like it is kind of like government design and successive governments having neglected the same communities again and again and again like your income as a household impacts so many things in your life and inevitably your children and I don't know I just I just I just wish that a bit like JP has said I wish people would kind of

32:45get onto the government about it more than they would parents or schools or families I just wish more people kind of took this advocacy to the government and I think this is the issue isn't it it's all very well like Joe was saying earlier making this sweeping generalised statement in an ideal world this is the way that it should be but the reality is if something like this was brought in and we bang on about it all the time but it's got to be funded but if you're expecting all children to eat what the school is providing you've got to account for the fact that not every family can afford that you know and there are lots of people that fall into that middle zone between complete affordability paying for a pack run paying for a school lunch every day is fine free school meals and there's a bunch of people in the middle who don't fall into that category and don't fall into that category who would if they were paying for school lunches every day that would be incredibly unaffordable because it's just a step too far the the just about managing as then

33:47trees are made to call them sorry Joe is it 100% there's the the idea of universal free school meals has been touted for primary schools you know and for an extended that rollout making sure that it's it spreads outside of key stage one and up into key stage two in various different places at various different points in everybody's view I think universal free school meals something that there's no stigma everybody sits down they got a school lunches lunch that's there it is God willing J.P. you know healthy reasonable meats the majority dietary requirements that would be considered to be typical dietary requirements so your vegetarian should vegans halal kosher you know all of that that type of stuff all of those things would be met as part of a universal free school meal offer and that has genuinely met resistance across burrows that have thought about

34:49introducing it certainly in parts of London met reason because the answer the question is always going to be where's the money coming from what aren't we paying for in order to do that and if you were to extend that into even into key stage three in the secondary school the cost of it is is I see plenty of kids who bring pet lunch to school and supplement their pet lunch with stuff from the canteen as well I see teenage boys in particular who bring massive boxes of chicken and rice in because they're training in the gym and that's what some person somewhere along the line says this is the best thing to be it's not a balanced diet it's it is but that's what what they're choosing to eat now at a time when that is about keeping fit and healthy do I have an opinion on whether eating chicken and rice every day for six months is a healthy diet I do have opinions on that but if they go on to the gym and they're exercising and that's all those things you know

35:53Gasmine mentioned the the concept of obesity is not just a thing that starts in the pet lunch or a dining hall or even at the corner shop obesity begins in lowering movement lowering opportunities for kids to go and do stuff fear parents not wanting to let their children go out of sight or out of reach or you know a JP and I think we're old enough now to remember plenty of times when stuff we got up to when we were kids not together just to go but that we're far up we were down straight and down the lane and you know the street lights went on yeah up behind that of the trees we were but we were active we were breaking out of the halls breaking out of the halls we were busy we were doing yeah still we also weren't waiting to close but you know we also had we had we had football stadiums we had football facility we had tennis courts we had swimming pools

36:56ready go go back do it again there's two sides we got Chris in the amount of food that is being that size the portion sizes the crisp packets you know the biscuits when I was a child or some you got a Christmas organized visitor 109 when a visitor came to Ryan and all the good biscuits were brought out that your parents had to hoard it and then as soon as the visitor left it was like the gamuts what it was you know no it's like biscuits or the treats are in the treats are in the treat area you know the kids walk around school with a big ground bag of of of of of Christmas you're like you know that's a thing there exactly this is what I'm all about and then we have the other side of it the seven tree lifestyle I mean you look you look in the 1970s 19 years you look at the any of the movies and yes it was smoking or but you look at how the lane people were you see all those photographs of the past you look at my own parents and think oh my god won't you smoke a there's six packs of it where I need to have to work for it because people didn't have this association of food it wasn't capitalism it wasn't just shoved down your throat and yes

37:56there are those out there saying it's it's about the debate about mobile phones the debate about a lot of things about this personal responsibility and there's always individuals ago it's the parents folks it's the parents fault well we're all against the food industry who was absolutely reckless we're up against you know multinational corporations and companies you are so good at a tricking human beings into they know they're studies us they know our habits and I'm full-filed at a two you know I have no addictions too but we never have the child because we are literally we need help and and yet the evidence is such there that children who are healthy will benefit the country and I go back to the free school meals thing why can't every child in this country be fed if we give a universal pension to people who made a lot of property in the property market in 197 I that excels because they've all got five grand for five what a thousand congratulations sitting on a lot well and they can tell us how easy it is you know eating albacados and all the rest with all due respect all due respect to that generation they're too hard and the younger generation yes they have to trouble yes they have the difficult the mortgage is

38:59recoverable in the 1980s when it was 15% yeah more to 10 grand at 15% is not the same as a mortgage it by ground when it's 400 grand that's the difference people get some perspective this this whole school of thought of the down to get kensy in school as thoughtful let's go hard on children this go hard on parents they need help and I do expect what she's trying to say I just think she decided a conversation with her son who's currently a defecting MP who went from conservatives so maybe her son who might be in the next government maybe we've been used to see if he happened to join the policy with his mom said that I'm gonna have a conversation with this mom and say look mama I understand that you want to stop lunchboxes being full of all this food I tell you what reform government's gonna do let's do a shover tax let's take on the corporations let's take on those companies know they won't they'll be saying niggas multiply the profit is possible because they lobbyists we will get down and government going we'll probably turn around and be back in them to make as much as possible and explaining our children that's what are they you're gonna have people explaining people do you guys do you guys remember that show called supersize versus

40:04super skinny I used to watch it was in the school and there was there was that time when there was loads of like health shows on like channel four and they'd have like children suffering from obesity and then other children who were like severely underweight have to swap diets like you know in some ways I feel like we've come far in society because that was absolutely atrocious having things like that on TV and like mocking people for like children for being either underweight or overweight and then forcing them to swap diets like that's any semblance of health but they should this conversation is reminded me of that but I also love this comment from Dr. Wayne Reid that says stop paying consultants to come in for a week to teach the teachers how to suck eggs well eggs are actually eggs are good eggs are fine I think it's okay it's okay it's a good thing I think that's in response to their not being funding for school lunches but yeah that's all I've got to stay on this topic there was another comment there from Chris could you put that

41:07back up I think I know that I think I thought Chris hope that might be somebody I know go a max like any consideration to give the teachers and teachers working alongside trading stand to stop these energy drinks and they're so I actually know Chris Chris is an ex-pupil in my news a police officer so he would see the other end of things coming along the lines I think that as the Chris I know he'll be talking about how again our children a bit exploited they can't do lines you take all the things they take addictions are children to be said or they've been set up and they're being preyed upon they're preyed upon at the supermarkets because the supermarkets use eye cameras there's a reason why me you go into a supermarket that the aisle for the sweets are the way they're designed do you know why the aisle for the sweets is the way they're designed because everybody's aisle level is 15 degrees below which means they're targeting the cameras and the ones lacking in sweets to put at a certain level out of the sweets at certain levels kids sweets at certain levels and I know any parent will tell you as soon as you go down that aisle I avoid that aisle because my kids see that aisle and they go and I acknowledge it so I just take a little side step right now that I but that's what we're up against we're up

42:10against people now who target us and those lunch boxes are targets so I think what she's trying to say has a nugget of truth in it I just think she needs to join not thinking up and go for the bigger bigger nugget rhymes to tacking and saying what's in lunch boxes go for the whole shabai what are we feeding our children full stop what is the food industry doing to our children what is the food industry doing to us what is the whole food situation that comes to the health of our children because here's the thing let's give our children let's do Hogwarts let's get all our kids you feed them let's feed them good food let's make it a priority because economic speaking you get people saying the country counted for I'm sorry I keep saying you can afford to serve as a national debt to a bunch of people who already have it up my our we can build by some master's destruction we're never going to use or we can feed our children don't give me wrong maybe I'm in the left the illness but maybe feeding children is my priority over building weapons we can have museums and I'm sure the Russians didn't probably send them back to us because they just type a half a cup of airports then anyway not diminished and sort that little problem I but hey

43:11what am I going to say I work in schools and I want children to be healthy what makes me terrible bleeding heart that as I am is that I don't like to see children suffering and I'm not going to condemn parents you are in a situation where they see the cheapest fast food with the most processed stuff as the cheapest option in a supermarket because healthy food and healthy veg is basically getting more expensive I'm not the prime change is going to help that I because all our fresh fruits and vegetables coming from Spain are going to be inflated rice you are disseminated against from eating healthy and I'm really sorry that's not fair are you wearing send device from buying bull so what goes into lunch boxes at cost is probably cheaper than a dinner because some parents will under that economic pressure they put the stuff in lunch box because they can buy it in bulk and that's the problem so you want to solve that problem we have to solve our food problem and you can't be that just attacking what's in lunch boxes it's a whole social policy education policy children's policy and a strategy towards making sure our children are healthy and at the other end of it get the get the youth close back open get the football pitches back into the counsel hands get social policy that looks

44:12after our children rather than just triple pension log pensions through a certain generation that will not well to take a cruise ride Norway and then inflate a ten-pride of pipe love it when we are struggling in education line and with all due respect they're thinking it's a good old day we're a good old day no they weren't because this was always an issue as regards that our day kids were always much aimed we had a movie in the 1980s that the the perchage had to do the truffle shuffle to remember the truffle shuffle so we've always had that but the differences we are now looking at some children I do PE lessons cardio vast ability cat-runner and a football catcher for for the kilo so the weather hold your respect if we're going to have young people fit for the future to fight for a country the same way it was in fighting the Germans we need to invest in our young people and I even think there's any more priority than the future of the country's the future of our young people and the last point about that is evidence wise one point you stand on three school meals get you back one point seventy one in NHS national efficiency health dentistry all arrested this actually is investing in young people means and making sure their

45:15healthy means that their health they are to write their lives they don't need to use a health service which is to back to your point is Joe about a certain generation like us we look after ourselves don't we because we still go out and do exercise we are still energetic and even the baby doing generation to their credit as much as I criticize the fact that they're they've got all lose one of those outside their high school so much money that they know what to do with it but they still go to Palateis they still go to yoga they still go to swimming but the funny thing is they can afford to do that now because all those things it used to be free like the free swinging lessons for children the free swimming pools the free clubs for this parents now are struggling with some all of this why because everything comes with a day out 50 quit at day out with two kids just white 50 quit out 100 quid sometimes two or three days of that a club a youth club you know we look after your children to do activities that's 50 60 70 quit for children I mean that was free when I was growing up and we didn't have people telling us to get off the streets there's a generation of people see children playing on the streets and I go where are your parents they've been going to the park let them climb a tree forgot sick let children be children

46:20sorry I've run to the library no never interesting there I think Yasmine a barricade or I don't know 25 30 minutes ago you mentioned about corner shops and the idea of the little shops that are selling kids energy drinks wait stuff like that and I think there's been a little bit on the news hasn't there over the last sort of few months about vapes shops about five or six billion years ago maybe or last week there was a thing about chicken shops particularly in it's some areas where they were considered to be contributing to anti-sourced behavior or health concerns or probably also dietary concerns and what have you in my experience and I don't know Yasmine whether whether this jobs with you and I see exactly the same sorts of things you do when I've done duties on school gates of the course of my career kids rocking up with energy drinks that are past 8 in the morning you know the big monster size ones the

47:22that they quite often sell other things that I'm not particularly thrilled about water pistols for example that type of stuff that just causes me a bother during the work day and I am that Mr for anyone in the comments who's going to go what's wrong with water pistols I don't tell you but that that whole idea you're about when in the area where and if we've got probably a plan for about six thousand new houses to be built built in the locality inevitably shops and things will grow up around those things probably schools and doctors surgeries useful stuff won but but little businesses well and perhaps they are is much of a part of a contribute in fact to two children not eating the right sorts of things because yeah I can tell you in all the schools I've worked in I've seen kids get dropped off or get off a bus inside the school grounds walk out of the gates at 10 past 8 go to the local shop spend

48:28whatever money their parents think they're spending on you know I'll get a snack at broke time at school or whatever else come back with an energy drink 25 tons of sweets you know whatever else it is that they've got crisp sometimes they sell it to other people sometimes they just eat it themselves if we were concerned about their shots we're concerned about diet we concerned about health we concerned about drains on the NHS regulating and I know somebody mentioned trade in standards and all of that type of thing regulating what the little corner shop might also be selling buying is isn't an unreasonable thing maybe I would challenge however the idea about skills working with bread and standards because I can't work with any more outside agencies I haven't got in my diary and if I have an I'm done sure Yasmin hasn't got time to work with any more multi-agency approaches but it also do something about something I feel like a central decision

49:34could be made about something like that without necessarily working it's just common sense really zoning rules about if you build a new homes build a doctor surgery build a new primary school you know if not a secondary school don't build capacity for a chain of shops that will then have not a great deal of usefulness in it but I just feel there's a whole avenue of problems related to so there's a company that I saw online that sells vapes disguised as highlighters and things like that that are they're deliberately targeting school children to be able to sneak these things into school and to get past the teachers you know and it's just like that doesn't nobody needs to work with teachers on that it's common sense that that needs to be cracked down on that is absolutely abhorrent on every level and shouldn't be allowed to happen I know what I'm tired of

50:38but you know I'm tired of the years now I don't know if you guys have noticed well at least in the case of some of the schools I've worked in whenever I've had like toilet duties or I've been walking past toilets they just smell like schooled now but they actually smell like weeds because of drinking and like I've actually seen children this was years ago but I've seen children pull vapes out of their boxes and give them like put like hand them obviously not like overly but like slip them to other children and I'm I don't know you know in science lessons sometimes I bring it up like guys this is a serious hygiene concern let's just park the issue about your lungs for a second you are putting a piece of plastic in your towel that's one of your peers pulled out of their boxes you know that's extremely unhygienic and so I tried really hard to just really uncool like oh like what are you like why would you do like that's three times they eat in the toilets they like they all like cram into a cubicle together and they eat their lunch in toilets

51:41if we're going to go down the hygiene route like that I just find that absolutely what you're saying children yeah I guess children aren't necessarily known necessarily like for having the best hygiene and it's not that benchmark isn't there but anyway yeah but you know we weren't hard genic particularly I'm sure any of us were with kids and stuff like that until you kind of get a grip but I don't think you need to be told that well clearly you do need to be told because yeah I'm seeing exactly the same thing it's because it's an addiction which is really concerning like you know being able to get a hit of their vapour whatever is sometimes a bigger pull than because it's a bit like you know a cigarette's back in the day which used to be when I was at school I didn't pop it then it was but they tasted horrible so like you had to try really really hard to like want to like a cigarette whereas if something's you know tastes like cherry or whatever

52:47there's no effort involved in that you can puff away on something that tastes like skittles and that's so it's almost like that entire industry is kind of good for young people and you can't like absolutely the toilets do smell fruity or of something and all of the time you know you challenge your kid on it I don't smell fruity this is how they start them out they just produce these bottles of body spray or whatever and go go let's just this and it's this equally fruity smelling you know well known brand of body spray type things that come from all sorts of different and you and you can't figure it out you can't work out whether is it there is it not it's just yeah can I point out the obvious you're policing the ladies toilets I can tell you that is not the kids with a boy's toilet no it's all for you look I have a lot of time to snap down but the thing the other thing is this this one cracks me up with

53:52the boy's going and taking the lunch into the toilet I put kids walking out of the toilet eating and you're in a toilet and you're eating and I'm like washing I mean this is like some stage I'm going there was a global pandemic six years ago for god's sake you're walking taking food in the toilet or are you often I often laugh and go I said I said go and check the toilets and I'm like oh look somebody has pooped the plastic ball it's like wow look at this again we've got so much plastic and as I make a joke I'm gonna go look at so much it's not so much plastics these days the kids are pooping out plastic because you've got to do this to do the toilet you've got afeet and so much in a plastic bottle in the toilet you're going some kid is so there in a toilet and in a toilet and I'm like one of my favorite things are the kids because of the savages it's on toilet duty is to stand just outside the you know toilets in more schools I'll put you open aren't they in terms of the the sinks and the the mirror area or or that you know the hand washing zone cubicles private that is to stand outside of them just repeatedly got

54:55wash your hands wash your hands or are you sure they're and they're washed hands and then they're like they're locked them in their legs and I'm like what are you doing? wash your hands and you know almost every single child will walk back in and go yeah okay and without fail some children they were standing around roll going you know you wash your hands that's okay one of them you're talking about you didn't know and still I told you to do the best one to you know when they turn around and they go you haven't washed your hands you've just been to the toilet and then subconsciously the Freudian sled goes I didn't go to the toilet well what were you doing in the cubicle and then you get the the back tracking and you go double the down no I didn't go to the toilet oh wow you're having a fun come toilet was was in a telegram for a number two rather than an actual number two then you did you let a hodon will dig here and they look at you going like no I used the toilet oh you used the toilet night but did you go to the toilet you know are we back to parties training here do you I love children that brilliant they just the more away and they walk right there they're saying they've got to do the cubicle for what the

56:00reason I do not loathe or launch the video whatever but the commode's personal to teachers have always played a vital role in shaping a QA qualifications as assessment reform approaches the questions being asked about the future of education matter more than ever and so do the voices helping to answer them that's why a QA has launched the a QA teacher insight program over the next 12 months the program will bring together teachers views and experiences through research engagement and a QA's partnership with teacher tap building a comprehensive picture of classroom experience to help inform the future of qualifications assessment and education such a QA assessment reform and have your say today this show is brought to you in partnership with hashit learning publishers are professional development books and resources that support great teaching and learning in schools around the world level up your professional development today and visit hashitlearning.com to explore the full range of titles

57:01bus exactly but this is the thing that their own toilet habits and yet we get this of like what did teachers at school with all due respect unless we want a generation of children who are elders presently say eating a hamburger on a toilet we all know what happened to help us eating the hamburg on a toilet lesson but that's what we're up against and yet we are told what we meant to do about that is out of our job now to try and sit children down at the early age and go this is a toilet you go to the toilet you wash your hands you leave the toilet you do not spray something nice on you don't there but and you don't eat in a toilet there is a dining hall for that and it is I this is the order I and I mean I'm sorry but if people out there are thinking about what's going on in schools they really listen to this because this is what we're seeing on a daily database open down the country and then we get an enact from the parents lobby groups going it's my child from the mental human right to be you know go Elvis Presley eat a hamburger on a toilet and they wonder why we have rules and schools because they're little children with all due respect don't know how to use a bathroom and don't know the purpose of a toilet is a place where you left the

58:05food out not put the food in the plumbing waste is on the whole way around back of it and I think there's this might appeal to you a little bit about because we were talking about something before the show started regarding policing of pat lunches but the status of pat lunches and the contents thereof and I know J.P. and I had a little bit of a what's that chat about what was considered posh when we were kids and wagon wheels definitely got a mention but don't you win readers put in in one of the comments about whether pat lunches have become another expression of inequality and if your kid rocks up to school with well without the wagon wheel and as instead only got a blue ribbon and trying to think of like possibly the worst chocolate that you might take to school with because I think they're not even considered to be chocolate anymore you're not allowed to call them a chocolate biscuit not enough chocolate on them but it does make a serious point about the idea that

59:09is it is it another reason to potentially get in rid of pat lunches because one snack is seen to be better if you're turning up with your daily lunch bowls advertising obviously other brands are available and instead somebody is turning up with a lesser well-known supermarkets on brand version then is it something that's saying well actually it's another form of status issue in the same way that school uniform was meant to get rid of people turning up in a pair of Levi's versus a pair of Marxist vents as all or whatever is it something that actually in all seriousness we should consider universal school mails as a as another leveler another remover of barrier and stigma and I think that maybe this doesn't quite sit with what we all know to be true that it's expensive to eat healthily it isn't easy it's not necessarily convenient to

1:00:16eat healthily because it might require you to go to a supermarket two or three times a week instead of once and do the big shot it but it is an interesting thing isn't it that I don't ever recall necessarily being bullied about the contents of my pat lunch but then again I never took an egg and onion sandwich to school so maybe I have sense I've seen sure what the surprise you is actually children sometimes realizing that they're friends who doesn't come from one more advantage background hasn't got much in the lunch box and I have seen children basically turn around and feed their friends I've had a situation where a child who's entitled to a free school meal doesn't like the free school meal takes a patch lunch in so his friend who isn't entitled to a free school meal but should be entitled to a free school meal actually was taken to a free school meal and I was a world I know that that's why that that's slight because I had the

1:01:18conversation I sat down I was concerned that he was going up for a meal and giving it to the other child and whether that child was demanding I eat the child saying give me your meal but it wasn't and this is just not the worst best behavior kid in the world who's got the greatest social conscience when he turned around and he looked at me and he's my mate sir he's hungry and I looked at him and that changed my appearance which also what a good kid you are and yeah he's and it wasn't the most best behavior you know there was a surprise a lot of staff to know that he was doing that but he was a friend his friend needed a free he would get a free school meal didn't need to free school meal didn't like the free school meal but he was willing to share a free school with another kid and he think it's all and that's like that's a tiny and I have dinner with him and thought what a nice kind gesture and I didn't I didn't report that I'm not going to report that I'm sure there was probably some rule along the line that says he's not entitled to a free school meal but two kids eating one one helping you know a rough-of-hoot situation and it was one of those moments when you think there's a child who much more than I do is being suspended numerous times as now I was behaving himself and yet his friend was in need of the health and I thought I'm a

1:02:20human human for past you but that was brilliant empathetic but then in a minute you think what kind of system has a situation when you look at how much money you have to earn for a free school meal household income it's it's it's low it's really really really low and also and then once it falls for the cracks the ones that just fall to the cracks I don't think they have much to be honest sorry yes Joseph also I want to say as well that is a really nice story JP but I do also want to say as well from my perspective as somebody who received free school meals in childhood and also a teacher now who sees children at a free school meals every day I do still feel like it's quite a misunderstood concept in schools if you haven't been free school meals before there are actually restrictions when I was at school like that I wasn't actually able to get everything that was on the menu I remember and I think it is still really similar because I've worked in schools where I've seen the same thing happen to children where you are normally only allowed two items and normally it can be any two items on the menu but you are allowed two items and so if you were to get say a main lunch and a

1:03:26dessert you couldn't get a drink or if you got a main lunch and a drink you couldn't get a dessert etc like that was the case when I was at school and I've seen that happen to a lot of children because there have been times where say on a Friday I've been strolling through the playground you know when they're staggered lunch and you key say three lunch something about a key say three lunch time makes teachers or makes me feel like a celebrity because your seven and eights love to like wave at you as you're walking to the canteen like they're honestly there is but I would often have children come up to me saying please can you get me a drink please can you get me water because they've just had you know carbs carbs naturally will make you thirsty and they weren't able to get a drink I feel like free school meals are still massively misunderstood obviously something like a drink I get you could work around most schools have fountains I'm sure if you told a teacher or you went to medical and said you were thirsty or you thought dehydrated that every like every member of staff would try to do something about it for you if they could you could also come in to

1:04:27school with a water bottle like there's ways around it to be honest but I do also think that free school meals obviously it's great that children get free school meals but I do feel like there are sometimes problems with it which can limit their food intake anyway which means they're still in like a calorie deficit or they're just not really I don't know they're not getting enough food for their energy needs during the school day obviously it's better than nothing but I don't think it always necessarily works well but I guess that's a story for another day as well because I mean I'm assuming it's not exactly the same everywhere but from the school some of the schools I've been to at least where I've kind of looked into this just like from an observation the great thing definitely is it's not too I'm so and you'll see it didn't the ladies I know put that down no like you can't get this no you can't get that like they tend to know it's sure enough free school meals yeah and it's yeah it's really tough and I remember when I was that also comes down

1:05:27to the kind of the private profit margin thing doesn't it because I think if it was in house and in school and it was all done internally and you knew those kids you might have people go just take a bottle it's fine that's what I had dinner I had dinner lady at school sorry to like just call her name out but this was so long ago that I doubt there'll be any consequences and I I doubt she's gonna leave but we had this head dinner lady called Wendy and I love it like she she used to give me a sorrite honestly she can't she can't still be there but she used to always call me extra stuff and she always like always looked out for me always and like there were some days I went to a school that was like it was just quite a smobby environment if you're honest it was the best school in the borough and there were a lot of it was like the school of choice for the most affluent kids in the borough I've said the slows the times before we had the expected mansion like walking distance from the council estate that I brought on and and so like you know there were

1:06:29people I went to school with who lived in and around these houses like we school that the expector mansion so God knows what their houses were also called you know that I remember going to school and sitting next to a boy in form time who was complaining about his heat of flooring that working in his games room and I remember thinking like I just I didn't even know what to say like and it wasn't I don't even mean this out of like resentment I didn't resent anybody at school I just mean our lives were so different that I just couldn't imagine there's sometimes and I knew they probably couldn't imagine mine but I remember in our school at least now a lot of kids have like dinner cards or they've got that fancy fingerprint thing now where you can't really know if somebody's free school meals or not but when I was in school I went to a school where they they print off everyone's name on paper who was free school meals so anyone in my year who wanted to know whether or not I received free school meals could just go into the canteen and check and that was like deeply humiliating for me like I remember there were days where I would look at who's in the canteen before I decide whether or not I was going to get a lunch because I didn't always

1:07:33necessarily I wasn't always comfortable with certain people knowing that I received free school meals because of the nature of the school that I was in I felt like it made me really hyper visible and so even within free school meals like a lot of children don't know sometimes that they're restricted to two items I've not seen a school where they kind of give the children who are free school meals when they join the school like a low down of this is what you're allowed at lunch this that that often doesn't happen a child often learns the hard way when a lady tells them to put something down and that in itself can be quite like humiliating for a child they might not so I have a person yeah they might not I always defend them or I I talked it like it might shoot for any time I have been a form shooter when I've got children who are free school meals I always tell them this is the policy in the canteen just like in advance I front load that in September and every year I remind them again and again and on sports day when they get those little brown paper bags where every child that's free school meals gets a lunch that's taken to the field or wherever you're doing

1:08:36sports day and then they just start shouting out names saying you know so and so come and get your lunch for my shooter group I always used to collect them in advance myself early in the morning bring them in my car and then I'd I'd take them out of the brown paper bags just right on them with like a board panel wherever and then I'd bring it with me in my own bag and then I'd just get them one by one like on the field and be like here's your lunch like put it in your bag or do you want me to keep it if you come see me at lunch time and then no one knows like where the sandwiches come out from you know it's in a bit of tin foil or it might be in a packet or whatever but nobody has to know that your free school meals you could just have your lunch without feeling humiliated or feeling like your dignity in any way has been compromised and I just sometimes feel like children with free school meals aren't looked out for enough I feel like yes given children free lunches when they're from you know when they're experiencing child deprivation is one thing but I think that there needs to be more thought given to the way in which it's done I think that's a really really really

1:09:37good point as well is what actually is a free school meal because it I think it's probably different in lots of different places that some schools do have a policy where it's two items and that's it and it might include the drink it might not it might you know for some schools it might be in main course and a dessert but no drink who knows how do you know that when you you go to the school if you don't if somebody doesn't front load it for you yeah yeah you're dead right but that might not be the same as the experience that you had in primary school where yeah a free meal was your entire meal I see loads of kids in schools that have worked in who it's two items or it's two of xy or z's or one of that one of that under drink but it can only be if it's one of that and one of that it's no drink it's confusing it's not a meal deal like we might understand

1:10:40and I've seen plenty of kids walk away with the worst health choice i.e a donut and a brownie and a bottle of water because they actually want the bottle of water they're thirsty yeah they want the bottle of water the rest of the stuff is just like you said jp about particular and it does affect boys more so than girls probably because they can either shove the donut in a pocket or the brownie in a pocket or whatever and go straight outside play football or whatever or they can save it for like odd by the time or the beat nip by the time they've got out of the queue and nor can you see me what they've eaten by that coin because snips and another thing I remember as well is if you're free school meals and you get something at break it affects what you can get at lunchtime like i've seen children denied lunch because they got a brownie at break that's not the one you're gonna make yeah yeah it's crazy it's honestly a dish we have cast

1:11:41the skatering which is meant to stop that but what then happens parents put like five time on for the day can go outside and maybe kids skip breakfast they come into us at break time and they're absolutely started and what they do is they tancoppin toast our waffles our sausage or bacon sugar sandwich we're called and called right here which is ridiculous but don't get me started on that one i call them the bar and even i may have one myself as a teacher and i go and you know i have a little but then it comes to lunch and they don't have lunch because they're hungry then because they've tanked up on all that sugary stuff comes the end of the day they're so it completely drained because they eat at the wrong time they're on still for the wrong reasons because and then they can't get a good lunch and i've seen them at the dinner queue going you can't afford that full dinner why because you've had three slices of this at the all you have to bake and come and they over did budgeted themselves and others against that would say it's up for the child the bunch of themselves but what are we meant to do make the child go hungry and yet you get a parent on the phone saying why is my child going hungry well because your child basically went and spent the blue all our money on the sugary snacks but then the catering company doing our catering is out there without because they're still getting all that money but we're not getting the income

1:12:44of that we're not getting the benefit of that because we're getting a child who's crashing at the end of the day i'm not able to learn because they've eaten the wrong food at the wrong time and it's parent games with that money and that looks the cashless catering i think so why you spent that but they're not equally having that conversation maybe they trust your child too much the second one i was just gonna bring something else in this is that we have a situation where i would say even the whole eating habit was alluding to this about the toilet thing children don't know how to sit in each night they don't eat an identity i've watched children not knowing how to use a knife and fork at secondary school i watched a child using his fingers chips got two chips put the beans onto the chips instead of getting a knife and fork i was eating beans and fishy chips with our hands without grabbing a knife and fork and i'm looking going going going get a knife and fork they might have children i have to go and hand cutlery too this is in life this is a fork eating with our hands again and i'm not prying bashing in this i know society

1:13:44is different my parents sounded identity but now's the way things are my children's that they're identityable and no devices on my dinner table but they might all just basic table manners but some coaches eat with their hands true they do eat with our hands but there is a civilization so that at least they wash their hands before they eat with their hands i'm not going to the toilet and rub them on their legs so with all of you respect they're going to those cultures and they are very clean and tidy and they have a whole culture linda i don't see any system whatsoever to our kids except as Joe will say fast quickie guide of your food curious and even the behavior at the dinner table no i'm not having to go culture i think there is a certain decorum or certain classness that's just not there any longer where people don't know how to sit and have a meal without shining cross a yahau and the amount of times you have to say you're in a dining hall you know it's not a mess hall in the army even the mess hall and the army is probably better organized but even that the way that our children just eat and the whole culture right eating is just not that what it used to be and maybe i'm sounding like getting older or maybe it's just

1:14:47generation i don't know but they do not sit and eat in a civilized way at lunchtime we had a comment earlier about the culture in private schools about eating together and it's kind of all the way into the school system yeah that hogwarts start like great halls style eating i want to start talking about family dining there yeah yeah and it's i think that would that would be a real positive if this was brought in as like a universal thing the problem is schools don't have space they can't you know big schools like my schools got like 1800 on roll 40 minutes for lunch how are you getting 1800 kids served food with the facilities that we have current it's it's not possible you can't see it 1800 kids in that we can't do it it's just not possible and i want to come back something you said about five pounds you know five pounds a day that parent might load their

1:15:51kids catering card up so we're talking one kid five pounds a day twenty twenty five pounds a week a hundred pounds a month that's if you've got one child you've got two children that's two hundred pounds a month if you've got more than that who's got that sort of money to to fund that for that that's a lot of money to find every money which is why they go to pack lunches isn't it because pack lunches are going in the supermarket yeah so you go before it's back up yeah we come back to it so it's it's a lovely idea in theory to try and solve a problem that does need solving but it isn't the solution because the actual practical implication of it would be well impossible it would be impossible that you wouldn't it wouldn't be inclusive it wouldn't cater for everybody it would be expensive you couldn't put that financial burden on families or schools potentially who you know can't even buy you know we were having a conversation before

1:16:55we came on air about you know school budgets and department budgets have been shrunk to such an extent that people can't buy exercise books and glue sticks and the things that you need for your classroom to function on a daily basis so as soon as we start talking about trying to find the money for universal free school meals there was something else I wanted to say about that as well about bringing it in house oh I don't know why but it made me think of hospital car parking so that my local hospital their car park is it isn't done by like one of the big kind of car park like euro car parks or anything like that it's done by the hospital and so when you pay for your parking the money goes into the hospital I don't know how many hospitals that happens for it makes me feel a lot less resentful about paying for my parking that way because I feel like well at least that money is actually going into the hospital and you know it improves in facilities or whatever if we brought school meals back in I'm making it relevant now

1:17:58if we brought school meals back in house where we had our own catering staff our own you know I know it would be another thing for schools to manage and I get that would be a whole other avenue probably difficulty but then would we be reinvesting that money so instead of it going out into some rich persons pocket and you know lining something something different outside of school at least if it was in house and you know even if it was a marginal little bit of profit you know three p per meal or whatever it's a bit like there's charity donations you can make it the till like when you go to you know the to the supermarket or whatever is it would you like to round this up for by three p what all of those things add up don't they and we could could we then push that back into education I don't know again that's an idealistic idea I agree with you because I served in the governing body of our school and the catering used to earn money for the school and the food was better and the staff were employed by the school accountable to the school

1:19:02whereas when they were taken over they were more interested in cutting the portion sizes and making the food more syrupy more sugary more fatier and more chips so actually when our food was in house it was better quality it was more accountable but the staff were our staff they weren't outsourced so really we're back to this privatization of education through the back door where money is going out the door and not going back into school and food is another example of that along with cutting the grass and all these other companies are now don't cut the grass but charge more money we're getting effectively like the NHS you say we're getting a worse service or paying more for it and our children ones ultimately suffering because she's got the right idea idealistic desire be speaking purely I get what she's coming from but she's not living in the real world she's not living in a world or we're living in in schools and I think a lot of parents don't know this as well and we do need the support now we need people not the creditisers they need to sort of prioritize our children's food and not come some just voting in election and saying I want my children to need healthier I want them to have a good

1:20:03skill for you and then I want them to trust that I already go to school that the food to be served is actually good food because the story after story of the slot that's been served to children is just not for purpose so no wonder some of the children turn into the lunch box because the food is just not strictly consumption you saw scandal after scandal you know the big potatoes that weren't even fully cooked in some schools and when you saw you know we scandal after scandal what's been served to our children do I believe some parents would say it's cheaper the child wants the lunch box in the lunch box why wouldn't it's their choice so we have to incentivize don't we we have to work on our school meals to attract more people to one school meals I think are better for children because there is more scope of having a meal is better than snack stuff in a lunch box we all know that but you can't do that without you can't you can't ban the lunch boxes without doing the other thing can you and you and equally you can't start about the food unless you do the other thing which is about exercise as well so it needs to be joined up doesn't that's my take on

1:21:04well who sent me putting fill in our lunches absolutely we did have another topic but I think we just have to save that for another time we'll have to pack that all up will be yeah well I'm going to do a quick shout out to our sponsors shut learning before we finish who are publishers of professional development books and resources they can give you practical ideas to use in the classroom they've got a huge range of trusted books and resources for teachers school leaders and schools as a whole they use evidence in form teaching and behavior for curriculum assessment and leadership and their titles are written by some of the best known names in education full of strategies that you could go into practice straight away they've got a growing range of cpd to help support your professional development and if you are interested you can browse their latest books and resources after a short learning today and also yeah thanks to everyone for the comments we've got nine from Dr Wayne Reed so just thought I'd mention that as well he's he's a fan of the show we love we love Dr Wayne Reed he's

1:22:05always got very very measured sensible comments I really enjoy his engagement well don't forget to like and subscribe us as well and and maybe join us come part of the high mind you know we're always looking for more people to join the future talk radio what would you call us group gang time to train train train train well they're like collective punch visuals we actually are anything but which is beautiful isn't it because that's what last place points of view we're all different different backgrounds different ages different takes on things some things we agree on some things we disagree on but that's the whole point we don't shut people down much to individuals that watch some of our clips sometimes they don't understand that many many they watch one of our clips don't take it out of context maybe watch the whole show back or show back and then make your comment before you jump you've been listening to teachers talk radio thank you tune in live and listen back at tt radio dr. meal we look forward to hearing from you next time on teachers talk radio