Pirates Fan Forum: A baseball discussion with Mike DeCourcy

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1:10Hello and welcome to the Pirates Fan Forum here on DK Pittsburgh Sports Podcast Network. I am your host, Gary Morgan. Jim has decided to go on a fun family vacation to spring training. So I had to call an audible and luckily our old friend Mike DeCorsi who has been on this show a couple of times has decided to grace us with his presence. Mike, if you want to tell everybody all the things you do, have that. I know the Big Ten Network and sporting news and Pittsburgh Sports Net. I recently found out you've been writing for. So list them all. Yes. Well, Pittsburgh Sports Net is a new project. It happens that sporting news became the content operators of SN Pittsburgh website and as well as Nesson the site that does the

2:18Bruins and the Red Sox. So we're doing the content for those two sites now and while I don't have a direct connection to Boston, I do live in the Pittsburgh area and have spent most of my life attached to the Pittsburgh Sports scene. Some of it about 30 years worth was relatively long distance. So my company thought it would be good for me to write. And so I've been writing about a column a week on a little less than that as March approaches. It makes it a little bit more difficult to do that because my primary duties are at the sporting news are concentrated on college basketball first along with World Cup and some NFL stuff and college football. But as we get to March, that's where most of my attention is. And I also do the NCAA Tournament Bracket Projections for Fox Sports and appear as a studio analyst at Big Ten Network. So there's a lot

3:24going on. And so it's very interesting time in Pittsburgh Sports in particular given what's going on with the penguins, the coaching chains with the Steelers and now the pirates going through what's probably the most compelling spring training that they have had in at least a decade maybe longer. Yeah, we're getting a dose of relevancy here and it's not something that we've gotten very often, Mike. So I guess the first subject let's get into is do fans in Pittsburgh spend enough time realizing that without all of the sock that came with Ben Charington's first few years, this team probably isn't capable of being where they are with this kind of payroll without it. That's the way this system set up. Oh yeah, I mean, I think that the nature of

4:29baseball as it is now and there are people in the media and who are fans of other markets who act as if what happens in baseball is somehow different than other sports in the sense that that it's not unusual that the big markets would dominate. Their contention is that because lots of different big markets win. Well, that's parody and that's the way competition works. And and as you see in all the other American sports now, now that the NBA has a true, although their cap is not a hard cap, their system is now a cap system which wasn't really true fully for the first gosh, they were the first ones with the cap in the 80s. So gosh, about the first 40 almost the first 40 years of their cap system, it was not a true cap system.

5:32Now with their various luxury tax aprons, they call them, it's become more like a true cap and floor system. And now what do we see? We see Oklahoma City and Indianapolis play for the championship in the in the most recent season because now it's a fair deal. Now everybody has a chance to be competitive. San Antonio had a nice run because they won the lottery a couple of times and got David Robinson and then Tim Duncan. But the for the most part, it was the Lakers, the Celtics, etc. And now we have a situation where their system is more in line with the NFL and the NBA. MLB is still not there. And so it's fairly rare that you get a situation where you have a pitcher like Paul Schienz and you have a promising bat like Connor Griffin. And you get that in a small market and you have this window where you both have them together.

6:35And you know, the Griffin story is remarkable because the Schienz story is great. I mean, he's phenomenal. Yeah. But the Griffin story is just bizarre because at 18 years old or so, he was selected ninth in the first round of their draft of the MLB draft. And by 19, he's the number one prospect in baseball. I mean, how did that happen? That doesn't happen in many sports where you have somebody that, I mean, eight teams miss that clearly on him. That doesn't happen often. You got to go back to Mike Trout, really? Yeah. Trout would be a great example of that because, again, he was very young when it happened. Like, it wouldn't be crazy if Connor had been taken ninth and then hit 260 and sink in in rookie ball and then climbed up and by the time he's 21 or 22,

7:36he's the best prospect in baseball. But the fact that it happened immediately is what makes this extraordinary. And it's happened so fast that the pirates have had to reconsider what his timeline is. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people kind of look at his timeline and instead of using it to kind of understand the freakish nature of what he's done, they use it to compare to other prospects that were taken in a more normal timeline, like Termar Johnson, you know, his 20 years old, just about to go into AAA. I can't stress to you how normal his progression has been through the system, but he's seen as a much lesser prospect because well, he didn't catch fire immediately. Well, he might be a lesser than Connor, but that's not necessarily a bad thing because if Connor turns out to be what he is on track to be, that's not everybody's Mickey Manel, you know? So if you can get that, I don't think it's a

8:40negative that other prospects aren't, I mean, it might be a negative for all the people if Griffin turns out to be what, again, he's on track to be, might be negative for all the eight or so people that passed on him. It'll be, that'll be a rough one, maybe not so much for the players, but for the people who made the choices. How did you let that guy, that's like, you know, right now, it feels like it's leaving LeBron on the on the board for six or eight picks. And of course, that never happened in the NBA. And we did, we have seen guys like Shay Gilges Alexander who on the MVP award last year in the NBA, who was selected 11th, I believe, in the 2018 draft. So it does happen occasionally, but again, Shay was a terrific player immediately, but not a sensation immediately. He was, oh, wow, he's really good. And then eventually became my goodness, he's the best player in the league, at least for this year. And so Connor, you know, Connor's path

9:42has been much more rapid than the average prospect. Now, of course, he still hasn't done it at the major league level. And that's, that's, that's the most compelling thing that will come out of Bradenton is when they make the announcement about what his, where he'll begin the season, that the people will be waiting to see that. And I, the, the cynic among the fans or the media or the talk show hosts or whatever are assuming that he will start the season in, in probably AAA. I, I, but there's also the overly optimistic, which is to say, well, it doesn't, it doesn't matter if you start, if you bring him up and start him at the season, what's the worst that can happen, then you have to send him down. Well, yeah, but if you, if you legitimately judge that he isn't ready, and there could be reasons for that, I'm, when I covered baseball in 1982, I mean, I saw Tim Burke in, in spring training, I was like, that's a guy, but he's a dude, but he wasn't a dude for

10:44a couple of years, up until three, four years after that. I mean, you could see that there was something there, but it wasn't ready for crime time. Right. And it was much the same with Jose De Leon at the same time. He got Jose got rushed a little bit because he was such a, he was such a spectacular talent. And his career did not go great. And it certainly didn't go to the level it was capable of going. So I think you have to give them some grace to make a legitimate decision here on what is the best path for him and not just assume it's about protecting his, his stature for the, for the future. And I'll say this is well-gear. I was talking to this, talking my brother about this yesterday. You can't make a decision based on the system as it is now because you don't know if that system's going to be in place in two years. Yeah. And I was thinking about this when it comes to talking about extending him because you know, it is starting to trickle out that there's

11:46both sides interest in potentially getting something done. And my initial thought was, who's representing him? Because if I'm representing him, I'm telling him like Connor, listen, most of this deal is based on the fact that they know they've got you by the seeds and they don't have to pay you for a couple of years. That's why this is possible and why this is semi-attractive. That might change this off season. Are you sure you need to do this right now? He might anyway. Yeah. Because it's security and everything and he's exactly just got married. But still, that's a leap. That's a leap that I think you're going to have to get over if you're talking to him, right? It depends on the figure though. I mean, I don't know what, have you heard a number? I heard that they were talking about Rome and Anthony Territory, which was about eight years, 130. I'm not sure I would do that. I think they probably have to go a little north of that, to be honest. Yeah. I think it would have to be more. My theory on what's happening

12:52elsewhere is I believe that the Dodgers are basically trying to put themselves in a position where if the cap goes into place, they'll have all these players basically grandfathered in and that they'll be able to sustain their dominance for the first three to four years or so the cap system, if it comes if it comes through, if that comes to fruition, that they've positioned themselves. And if it doesn't, then they're exactly where they have been, maybe at a slightly higher level, but I've maintained for years and no one wants to believe this. The Dodgers relative to their revenue streams and comparative to everyone else are under spending more than the pirates because their revenue is so much greater and their payroll is greater, but it's not like their revenue is like six times greater and the payroll is like three to four times greater. So relative

13:52to the pirates income, their Dodgers are actually understanding, have underspent. Maybe this latest round of contracts, I've not done the math on that, might have put them at the position where they're now even, but they're certainly not beyond. And so I think that's what's happening. And I do think that it's possible that the control system will be significantly altered by if a cap system goes into place. And so therefore, if Conor Griffin is the best shortstop that the pirates have going into 2026, he should start the season there. If they don't think that he's ready because they're afraid that they're afraid as a strong work, because they're concerned rightfully so that there may be some style of pitching that he's not ready to hit. There may be some element of that that he might struggle with. I don't think that it's anything,

14:58anything beyond that. I mean, everything else about him says, yeah, he's ready to go. But you don't want to break the confidence of a player whose continually ascended at every level you've placed him. Right. I think the the pirates have put together a one-year shot here. United Health Group is simplifying health care by investing in tools to help patients know more and pay less. These tools help patients find providers and compare costs and save hundreds of dollars annually. Learn more at unitedhealthgroup.com slash commitment. Fandool is dropping bonus bets into everyone's account for the tournament. All you have to do is opt in to claim your bonus. But don't wait. These bonus bets are only available for a limited time. Fandool, play your game. 21 plus in present and select states. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Max bonus $500 unless otherwise specified. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fandool.com gambling problem called 1-800 gambler.

16:03There are a lot of their contracts that they sign where one year deals. To me, that says have urgency with everything. And if you think counter gifens, your best shortstop on opening day, do it. Right. That's what I hope they do. We got to take a quick break. I think we've laid a good base for what we're going to talk about. Let's come back and really hammer the cap. So I really want to get into this parody thing a little bit. Just explain it in a different way. At DK Pittsburgh Sports, we take pride in coverage that connects our city's fans to their favorite teams. Now that connection is stronger than ever. Introducing our all-new state-of-the-art app. Find expert inside reporting and original podcasts. Check live box scores. Track the latest stats. Cat it up with our community of thousands of fans all in one place. The new app from DK Pittsburgh Sports coverage that connects. Hey everybody, welcome back to the Pirates Fan Forum here on DK Pittsburgh Sports Podcast Network. I just literally heard right now that Hunter Green of the

17:07Cincinnati Reds is having his elbow scanned and MRI done. Bad news. We just did a show the other day on Locked On Pirates about comparing the Reds rotation to the Pirates rotation and they're closer than you think. That is a blow. I really hope that he's okay. I mean for real, I do. As a baseball fan, I hope he's okay. Let's talk about parody a little bit here because we talked about the top end rotating through who might actually win. And yeah, on occasion, somebody that doesn't belong there sneaks in and gets a chance, right? Like Arizona a few years ago or whatever. But that's the example of the Royals in 2015. People love to do that. Tigers might this year, but they're spending over 200 million this year. So they're no longer spending like a small market team, when and if they get it done, right? And they certainly can't sustain that or they might have offered scuba something closer to his arbitration request in the first place.

18:07The codify just basically came out with a list of postseason games played. Since MLB went to 30 teams in 1998. So Yankees have played 207 playoff games in that time period. Pirates, spoiler alert, eight. Cincinnati, 13. Like these, it's a who's who of who's been bad? 19 for Baltimore, 20 for Colorado, 24 for Miami, 26 for Chicago, white socks. The top, New York, LA Dodgers, Houston, St. Louis, Boston, Atlanta, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Chicago Cubs, and Detroit, who spends every once in a while. And that's the top. Nobody has anywhere close. Well, let me let me let me let me discuss what you what you were talking about a little bit

19:08and and point out how baseball sort of twists this discussion in its own direction. When when when Houston won, there were those in the baseball community who were saying, see, small market can do it. It's the fifth largest market in the country. But it's not you know, it's not New York or LA or Chicago, so they don't look at it like that. But it's a it's a metropolitan area of nearly 8 million people. That's slightly less than four times what the size of the Pittsburgh metro area is. Miami. Now Miami fails a lot, right? But that's on them in it's sort of like the jets. Miami is the sixth largest market in the in the area or in the in the nation, excuse me, Phoenix. You mentioned them as sort of a smallish mark. They're 10th. Even Detroit is 14.

20:11The the reality of major league baseball in the 21st century is that they have had three champions from outside the top 15 markets. Three. And I believe that the number of teams out of the 20 is 14. I believe that exist outside the top 15 markets. It might be slightly less than that. I've done this research and and I don't have the exact numbers in front of me. You read a great piece on it last year and I still reference it even though the numbers are probably dated at this point. But right. Right. But at that point, you have, you know, people get angry in baseball fans get angry because they feel like a salary cap. They've been convinced by the union that a salary cap means the players like make less money. In reality, the players make less money because there is no salary cap system. Right. There's this constant push for well, there should just be a floor.

21:15Well, what does what good does that do? All it like whatever the pirates roster is or the Reds roster or the Orioles roster or the Royals, whatever their rosters are, they would just pay more money for the same players. I mean, I guess it'd be great if you're a player. You're going to raise my pay just because we have to meet a floor. But the Dodgers are still going to be up there without spending anybody if they want a particular player. That doesn't fix anything. Well, let's speak about the floor because there's been some proposals that are coming out because I do think this is serious enough and they have enough of a group of owners that this is going to go forward. They are going to push for it. I don't know if they have the guts to do it to the degree that it needs to be done. But the proposals that I'm seeing, which I'm sure are just made up. But most of the proposals are national guys trying to wrap their heads around the salary cap that they have resisted for. They don't know how it works. So that's not with like, hey, the floor is

22:18going to be somewhere like 180 and the cap will be like 250. That won't work. That won't work. There's no cap system in anything like that. Right. Why won't that work, though? I mean, I think a lot of people think, well, that would force the smaller guys to spend more. But there's a whole mechanism built into a cap system that allows everybody to spend the same thing. Why they don't float around acting like anybody's hard done by because of the cap. You have to make tough decisions because of it. You got to cut good players. You got to spend less in certain areas. You got to be smart about how you build your team. Right. Exactly. Right. That's why Kansas City could have the short-term dynasty that they had. Maybe we'll revive, but at the moment, they've fallen off. They fell off this past year.

23:21But Kansas City is, I believe, the 31st market in America. The 31st largest. It's 2.2 million people in their metro area. But they could be for a period of time, six years, seven years, the most powerful franchise in the NFL. And draw a lot of eyeballs on television because my homes was so exciting to watch, etc. It doesn't matter. People don't care about the brand. People don't care more about the New York Giants than they care about the Kansas City Chiefs. They care more about the New England. Doesn't even have a city, Mike. Yeah, that's true, too. I mean, for real, we call it Boston, but come on. Yeah. It's like 45 minutes away from Boston. Yes. Right. It shows you what's possible, what could be possible in baseball. For those who have, and I'm sure your audience knows by now because you've talked intelligently about this for years,

24:22but anybody that's listening that doesn't understand, no cap system comes without a floor. And the floor is generally within 20% of the cap. And mostly, most of them have been trending toward less than that, but that at one point was the NHL's deal. I think the NHL has picked up its floor to more of a compression so that they're closer together as well. But the idea is how you execute becomes paramount, not where you're located, not not the size of the city you're in, and everybody becomes wealthier as a result of that. And the NBA, just because of their system, just signed a television contracts that are worth something like $7.1 billion or something like that, that have raised everybody. And in the NFL, that's coming at a really high level.

25:24When they negotiate their next TV deals, they're going to start negotiating soon, but I think they'll go into place in 29. And that's coming. The salary cap in football has nearly doubled in the last decade or so. And what has to be remembered is that NFL players get about 49% of football revenues from the league and the league in the teams, I should say, keep 51 in the NHL and NBA. It's closer to 50-50. In Major League Baseball, at one point, it was estimated or it was placed at about 42%. When Rob Manfred talked about more or less advocating for the cap last summer, his figure was 46%. So no matter whether it's 42 or 46, you're still well below every other of the long-term established Major Men's leagues. You're behind all of them in percentage of revenue.

26:27And that's where baseball fans who think, oh, the players will make less money. No, they'll make more money. Right. And the other element of this that baseball fans don't seem to understand is the control system will change. It has to. It has to. Because the players have to get something if you're going to take away the ability for one player to make $600 million, the players are going to have to get something in exchange for that. And so the control system will have to change. The arbitration system will have to change. Whether you keep arbitration or not, that'll be up to the, but it will change and it will be less restrictive so that players can hit free agency earlier in their careers. Right. And they can see a lot like the NFL. We have rookie deals where they have three years once you've had them debut, you know, or you have three years to get them there from draft to debut and then three years beyond that and a rookie deal. And then after that, probably free agent, maybe some

27:30kind of franchise tag option or something along those lines, but those sorts of things will have to come because I often hear people in my position, I get frustrated, Mike talking about this. And a lot of the time, I just want to kind of be like, you know what? It doesn't matter what the players want because it ultimately does it. It's the owner's decision. If they want a cap, they'll get it. They just got to wait long enough. And HL learned this lesson. NBA learned this lesson. The NFL learned this lesson. There's been movies about this stuff guys. I mean, like this stuff has all happened in every league of no player wanted it. But I think MLB has a real opportunity here to try to partner with the players because most of these players aren't being represented, Mike. That's what I was going to say. Never make below league minimum. That's the point about Major League Baseball is that the players have to understand the majority of players are not getting their fair deal. When the Major League Baseball

28:39minimum is literally lower than the NHL minimum, you've got a problem. The NHL and MLB have roughly the same Major League roster size. Give or take a few guys. Major League Baseball makes vastly more money than NHL does. And yet, their minimum salary is set lower. And a greater percentage of Major League Baseball players are making the minimum than NHL hockey players are. Last year, when I did the numbers, there was something in that article. It was something like 30% were making less than we're making up. I know it was like 20% were making the minimum salary. And I believe it. I wish I'd looked up the numbers. But they were comparative to NHL players.

29:42They were making far less. They were Major League Baseball All-Stars. In early career contracts, guys who played in the All-Store game were having fabulous years. One you used as an example. Yeah. Yeah, if you want to use skeens as the example, number one overall pick, comparative to NFL number one overall pick, comparative to number one NBA overall pick, making about a third of the money over the course of his first three years, about a third of the money that the other two would make. Even though Caleb Williams is a fine quarterback, he's not the best in the league. He's not probably in the top five or six yet. Skeens is the best in the league as a second year player. And he's making a third of what the first pick in the NBA draft was making, the first pick in the NFL draft was making. That alone is problematic. But then you look at all the players who are making the minimum salary.

30:43They're the ones who have to understand that they're going to get a much better deal in a cap system. The mid level player as well as uniquely positioned to guide this. He's on the committee. You know, he has... Well, listen, and he's not a Boris client. He's one of you that isn't... Well, they've knocked a lot of them off. There's only three left on that executive committee now. But I worry about his presence. I worry about his presence because he does stand to benefit from the current system at a really high level. Whereas in the cap system, he would get still very rich, but he wouldn't get Bryce Harper rich. More than likely, it would be very difficult for any team to put together a deal at that level for him in a cap system. So that does worry me a little bit. I... What the league... What the MLBPA has not done is, in my opinion, take care of that rank and file player, especially the young players.

31:51Right. The young players in baseball have a much rougher deal than young players in the other in the other high level sports. One last thing on the salary cap, because I just think we talk about small markets a lot, and I think it can get confusing. I want to talk about St. Louis, because in that list that I presented, they're up towards the top, 140 appearances. But I think we often confuse market size with the actual city size, and I think it's really the viewership size. St. Louis was an island, and they had a network of cable models all around them, and they had a gigantic audience from that. The cable model died in St. Louis specifically, and all I can really say is, look what's happened to them now. Yes. They're just like everyone else now. Yes. It's absolutely true. It's something that Cincinnati, under

32:51March Schott's ownership, had from a geographic standpoint, a great advantage as well. When I... At the time that I lived in Pittsburgh in the early 90s, Pittsburgh did not have that regional network of nice mid-size cities that were well within driving distance. I mean, you had... Morgan Towne was about it. Yeah, exactly. But then you look at Cincinnati prior to March Schott's reign, they're drawing from Columbus. It's actually closer than Cleveland. There were a lot of Indians fans, or now Guardians, but they were Indians then, that were in the Columbus area, but there were lots of Reds fans, Louisville, Lexington, a lot of Reds fans in Lexington. Again, Indianapolis was somewhat divided between Cubs and Reds, but there were fans of it. So they had all these areas to draw from and draw attendance from,

33:52and then March Schott basically just shut all those doors for no good reason, and then it shrunk since in Addie's influence as well. And so you see the same thing. Now they're very similar in terms of where and who they draw to Pittsburgh, even though they had that great regional advantage. And so now they're in the same small market conundrum that the pirates are. So I would ask, are the owners suddenly interested to the point of actually pushing for a salary cap because they've gotten tired of losing, or because the TV situation in landscape has changed to the point that it's created more of the have-nots than we ever had before? Yeah, I think that that's probably the final thing to push them over, with the RSNs, so many of them struggling

34:53that that has had the impact of, okay, we got to get serious about this because we're all now in the same boat. There are just a few exceptions. LAs isn't going away. New Yorks isn't going away, but a lot of the other teams. I mean, I think Pittsburgh isn't pretty good shape now too, although the model has changed in the last four or five years. It still kind of exists in a similar frame. Yeah, I just don't know what's going to happen because of the Nesson sale of the penguins. Like that's kind of how that network came to be. So I'm not sure how much longer it stays open. I think the pirates signed a two-year deal when they did this. So now you have that impetus of all the teams looking at it. Like we're all a lot kind of the same now, going to MLB to get them to run the show and then figuring out how best to distribute it from there. And... Taken a massive cut in what they pay to for the rights. MLB is paying, I believe, something like

35:5825 million or something for the rights to broadcast. And that's a cut for a team like St. Louis is close to 30 million a year. Easy. And that's probably light. There's some other teams that I think probably lost out even more than that. But Lanna must have known it was going to be real bad because they decided to launch their own network, which ain't cheap. But that should tell you how much less they thought they were going to get going with MLB. Right. So yeah, it's definitely a thing. Let's talk about some other subjects, Mike, because Andrew McCutchen, he's been around and the face of the Pirates for... Well, a long time, almost as long as you and I have been around, right? So quite that long. But he's been the face, he's been the face and he came back and you know, it looked like there was going to be this nice retirement story here. But unfortunately, as we know, from covering sports, you professionally me fake. Players don't always get to decide when they

37:06retire, right? And I think it's kind of telling that nobody has signed Andrew McCutchen yet. You know, I haven't really heard any rumors. I kind of thought as soon as things fell apart here with the Pirates, that was going to happen pretty quick because I still think he's a guy that has a bat. But I'm not seeing it. Yeah. You know, I compared this situation to my one year covering majorly baseball 1982 at the Greensburg Tribune Review and the Daily Tribune, which didn't last long. And I didn't last long as a baseball writer either. But that year, Willie Stargel was three years removed from his MVP season in 79 and the World Series Championship. And he wanted to go one more time and the Pirates said, okay, and I don't remember what kind of salary deal or whatever he had. Those figures weren't as readily available than as they are. They weren't as explosive at the time,

38:09either. That's true too. I think Willie Parker, or not Willie Parker, geez. Parker, Dave Parker got a million dollars and Cincinnati and everyone lost their minds. So it's kind of been much. And so he stuck around for the one more year as a clubhouse figure as a pinch hitter. At one point, he led the league in pinch hits. I don't know if he finished that. His efficacy declined in August and September of that year as I remember it. But for a while, he was doing a great job pinch hitting. But I thought that if Couch really wanted to be a pirate again, that that role would have been worthwhile for him and them. And it's obvious he did. And I don't know why they weren't amenable to that concept. He may not have been. That part of the conversation has never been made public in terms of what he wanted to pay versus what they wanted to offer

39:12if they were not to offer anything. And what role? Like bringing him back as the starting DH, I think maybe put him in competition to be that at best, but really with the goal of can he fill in as an outfielder and can he pinch it? And is that worthy of carrying on your team? I mean, everybody's got utility guys. I don't know why the utility I can't be a former superstar was the case for Willie. I mean, in Willie's year, I don't remember him playing the field all that much at all. I mean, he probably went out there some, but it was mostly there to pinch hit. And I think then the rosters were one lighter maybe to the at that point than they are now. Yeah, and you didn't have a DH. So exactly. So I just think there's I thought there was a role for him and the only the frustrating part of this to me is that is that the confrontation, the public confrontation neither side has ever provided any detail on what was amenable to their side.

40:19Just that it seemed like he wanted the same thing as he always had and they wanted nothing. And I'm not sure that that that would have been a reasonable approach from either side. My read on this situation goes back a few years. First, I don't think Ben Charrington ever wanted catch here. That was never his call. And I think we've got that pretty well sourced. This was been this was Bob nutting saying yes, you can come back and Bob nutting publicly saying to fans and Andrew McCutchen that he can play here as long as he wants. And that's obviously not the case now, right? That said, you have an axe hanging over the neck of your general manager, win this year or you're done, right? I think it's over your team president too, right? You can't tell him to put the best team he can on the field and then get mad that he goes and signs Marcelo Zuna who is

41:23absolutely the better of Andrew McCutchen right now offensive. No doubt. I don't know how in the world you can slap him on the wrist for making that call. No, if it's an either or no, no, no, that's why I see you Mike. I'm just yeah. Right. No, but I mean, for me, if it's an either or then absolutely they've made the right decision. My only my only thought was that it seemed to me that there could have been a smaller role for him to help influence. I can't imagine there's a better pirate in the current era than coach. And I'm not just talking about public facing. I'm talking about in their clubhouse, which a place where I will acknowledge I did not have not spent any time. But what I've been what I've read and heard and listened to and all that would suggest that he was a good clubhouse figure. I would hope that that was considered

42:26in making this decision and not just math. And I would think that it was, but I also I think it is a touchy subject. I think they could have handled it better from a communication standpoint last year with him as far as what they were planning to do this off season. Yes. And if the role that they were going to present him, which I think was always going to be the sliver you suggest. If that wasn't going to be enough for him, there shouldn't have been any controversy or social media argument at all because they should have known very well what they were doing. But I also think that it's really hard for me and has been all off season to find a real place for him. I really think they have better options right now. And I think it would be a detriment to the team at this point. I do. And that sucks because I don't want to say that.

43:27Andrew McCutchens one of my favorite players ever. I wanted nothing more than for him to be like, yeah, that's enough. Tip of the cap. Give me the cheers I deserve. But I want this team to win this year. And I'm not saying the 26 man's going to prevent that. But I want the flexibility because I think I have about five 26 man I'd rather have. If that, you know, you know, you know that roster better than I do by far. And if that's your assessment, then I can totally go along along with that. You know, I just looked at a year ago and saw that he was able to play in 135 games. He was able to go to the plate five hundred and fifty times. He hit a reasonable number. It's not spectacular. He probably wouldn't be your best D.H. But that I thought that those numbers suggested that he still had a utility year in him

44:29if he wanted it. I'm still beating myself up over saying it, Mike. I'm not happy about like saying it out loud. It hurts to say that about a legend. Look, Aaron Rogers. You know, I thought Aaron Rogers did a really fine job with the Steelers in 2025. But I saw the limitations of what he wasn't able to do in particular games. Cleveland and Houston in particular. And say, no, this isn't the way anymore. So I don't, I mean, that's just the way it is. He was one of the greatest of all time. And he had a really fine single year with the Steelers. But his limitations were among the reasons that they weren't able to overcome Houston. Maybe among among the four or five biggest reasons that they weren't able to do that. And so I don't have any trouble saying that. And if, if cutch as great as he has been,

45:31and honestly, there aren't a lot of retired numbers inside, inside the PNC part, but I don't think it would be out of place to eventually put that number there. When you consider who is up there, there aren't a lot of, there aren't a lot of NL MVPs. There aren't a lot of guys who were the face of the franchise for close to 20 years. I mean, it's hard to believe now, but in 2009, when the Steelers and Penguins won the championship at the same time, sporting news, when we still had the magazine, used to name the best sports city. And usually it came down to who had the best year. It wasn't like you had the best fans, or whatever. Right, right. And so they were the best sports city. And obviously, if you ever named Boston. Exactly. And I think we did. And so in 2009, Pittsburgh was the best sports city. And I got as part of the ceremonies, I was on the field introduced to the Heinz field,

46:37what was then Heinz field crowd, along with Mario was down there. And somebody from the women's football team and a few others. And Kutch was the person who represented the pirates. And here we are, gosh, you know, 16, 17 years later. And he's still an important figure in the game. I mean, that's how that's how long he has influenced Pittsburgh baseball. It is a shame that that someone so important for that period of time would would have his career end in this fashion. And I'd still, I'd love to get the reporting. I'd love for somebody to break through that. And maybe Kutch will talk one day. But he hasn't yet, other than in social media, just saying he wants to ball. And the pirates just saying, hmm, well, I got a beat on it after Ben Cherryton's gone. I'll get the story. I just don't have it right now. But I will, I will get the story. I want to give you a vehicle to talk

47:40about Paul Schienz a little bit because, you know, exciting player, obviously transformative for any franchise that would be lucky enough to get him pitching in the world baseball classic. A couple things about the world baseball classic. I don't feel like it's got the same kind of gravitas that some of the other international competitions do. And largely because of guys like Paul Schienz, who basically go in there and map out exactly when they're going to pitch. They're not talking about the leverage, right? They're not talking about being there for the championship game. Yeah. I'm going to be there the the second to last game. That's when it works for my schedule. And I just don't feel like that's the same kind of level of international competition we get from the dream team and the NBA or the NHL guys going over and playing. And maybe that's just course with baseball, you know, they're in middle of spring training. What do you think about him playing in it? What do you think of any of the guys playing it? If he's going to play in it, I don't

48:42remember the team he's facing, but it isn't exactly a murderer's row that he's scheduled to face. If he's going to play in it, why not pitch in the playoff portion of it so that you matter. Why even bother? Yeah, the scoop is doing the same thing. Yeah. It was like my bother if you're not going to go out and face Japan or the Dominican or whoever the other real contenders in this rather than just go out and basically pitch what's a what's a glorified spring training game for you. That part of it I don't understand. And it does impact the the nature of the competition. For for those of us who who follow these things. I mean, the world cup's going to come to the US in three months. And the absolute best players in the world are going to be there. And they are going to give everything they have to be there. The Olympics in basketball, not quite

49:46the same, but when it first started it was. Yeah, well, when when the dream team came along, it you know, they had everybody and you still have a lot of the best players now want to play in the Olympics, but there are there might be the occasional player who's kind of worn out and says, nah, the the the world cup in basketball is an example of of of something that the best players don't play in because they'd rather be in the Olympics. They think it's cooler and a and a bigger deal. And in the US, it is. Yes. Historically, it has been. And and you know, we just saw in the Olympics, I gives up his front teeth to score, you know, to stay to win the gold medal. So those guys are really invested. So it is a little disappointing that that some of the like if the US had scoobal and skeens in the playoff rounds of the world baseball classic, they'd be really hard to

50:48beat. Right. But if those guys are just going out and playing against countries that have little chance to win under any circumstance, it just doesn't seem to help much. And it does diminish the and unfortunately diminishes the the glory of this championship, which could be which could really help baseball grow. I think that's the goal. But I think there's been more hype about guys not being able to get in short than there has matchups. Right. You know, like I've heard a lot more about guys not being able to be to go play because they couldn't get insurance coverage. Then I have this team is going to match up against this team and look out for this matchup. And I don't show you. Tony's not even going to pitch. Yeah. Like, you know, listen, if you're not going to give it everything you got, let's not do this because all it's doing is disrupting spring training really for anybody else. Right. And you know, the shame of it is that it seemed to be ascending the last

51:52time they contested it, the great moment, the autonomy versus trout moment, that it seemed to be heading toward that where you had the best players coming down in the final game. Greatest, you know, greatest pitching talent we've seen in a while, at least until Paul came along. And then the, you know, this probably the greatest all around American baseball player of the 21st century with the bat in his hands. And that deciding the championship, that's what you want. And that's where it was headed. And now it seems to be retreating a little bit. And I do wonder if honestly, if the labor situation has an impact on that. Because if you think about it, if you get hurt now, and like significantly hurt now, and you aren't insured, and then you're not

52:53taking a paycheck in 2026, especially when you look at, excuse me, 2027, when you look at guys like Paul, Paul schemes and scoobles, those guys have yet to hit their bank in the way that they will eventually. So it's even more concerning about them between the what they might sign for eventually and the upcoming lockout and how that eventual contract might be delayed. And so, you know, I can understand their concern if they're unable to be insured, but it is a disappointment relative to the event that players are are basically being so limited about their involvement. So what do you think, Paul schemes and other side young this year? I think he gets back back. You know, what's interesting about baseball is that over the last decade or more, we have seen velocity escalate and escalate, and more and more players. I mean,

53:59when I was in Cincinnati in the early 2010s, and a robust Chapman came along. The new LinkedIn hiring pro can't undo your last hire. The lone wolf. Who you thought was a good collaborator because you didn't have the right candidate insights. But once you hire them, it was all hoarding info, declining meetings, and howling at the full moon. But LinkedIn hiring pro can go deeper than just the resume to find you a perfect fit. By using insights from the LinkedIn network to give you a short list of best fit candidates, hire right the first time with LinkedIn hiring pro. Post a free job today at LinkedIn.com slash Pandora. Pandora is dropping bonus bets into everyone's account for the tournament. All you have to do is opt in to claim your bonus. But don't wait. These bonus bets are only available for a limited time. Pandora, play your game. 21 plus and present in select states bonus issued as none with drawable bonus bets, which expire seven days after receipt max bonus $500 and less on the wise specified restrictions

55:03apply. See terms at sportsbook.fandal.com gambling problem called 1-800 gambler. It was just an absolute phenomenon because the velocities were just ridiculous. Even he's throwing harder than he did back then. He hit 104 last year. I mean, it was so crazy that he did that. But now, I mean, while there's still aren't a lot of those guys, there are enough in the neighborhood that it's not this freak occurrence any longer. Right. And so what makes Keen's extraordinary is that he does pitch at those velocities, but that he has the craft that Maddox had or something similar. And so, and Maddox, while he threw hard enough, he wasn't, you know, he wasn't throwing Eva's pitches up there. He never overpowered guys. He just put it exactly where he wanted it on every single pitch.

56:04And it's like, you know, he always knew what the right pitch was. I mean, he was a genius. And so you put that with Keen's, with Keen's velocity. And you have something that, honestly, if we have, if we have seen it before, then we probably haven't seen it since Gibson. I mean, that's that predates me. I was thinking Pedro Martinez is the one I always like to equate him to except Pedro was so much smaller. Yeah. It's amazing. I guess it's hard to think about that way because he was, he was shorter, yeah. Roger Clemens comes to mind, you know, but Roger really only had a couple pitches, you know, like skeens has so many ways to beat you. It's, he's kind of like what you would plug into AI if you wanted to create the perfect player in a video game. Like the perfect pitcher in a video game. Yeah, until somebody beats him, like, I think, I think he's going to just keep winning on that so scalable. Yeah. I mean, he is, he is a phenomenon. And it's really cool to watch, to see,

57:06to get a chance to see somebody that they'll be talking about. Like, I mean, I brought up Gibson. I mean, I, at 60 years, yeah, or nearly since his 68 season, it's nearly 60 years. And we'll never stop, like those of us who follow sports will never stop talking about that. I mean, 112 ERA is one of those numbers that's burned into your, into your memory. And, and they'll be talking about skeens, I believe, in, in a similar period of time and my goodness, that will be 2070. It's kind of scary, but yeah, it will. And, but I do believe that he's that level of player for, you know, and I've been around the sports and baseball for five plus decades. I guess, yeah, I'd say it's fair to say five plus decades. Although I saw Gibson in 68, I was pretty little. And, but I know, but I, you know, I remember what that was and what the

58:09impact was and, and them going against the Tigers and the World Series and all the rest of that. I think my, my grandfather passed in 1994, I want to say. And one of the last conversations I had with him was that nobody will ever be as good a pitcher as Bob Gibson. Oh, you know, and I think you think of him now when you think about Paul, I mean, because, you know, I think about like how much beautiful, yes, I really wish that he would have gotten an opportunity to see him pitch. Yeah, I think, I think that's, that's great. Well, Mike, you've been very generous with your time. And I appreciate you. I know you got other things you got to do because you're on 9,000 networks. So unless you've got anything else to add, I'm going to go ahead and end it and say, we're good to go. We're good to go. But it should be a fun baseball season in Pittsburgh. I'm looking forward to it all. And, and, and, and I, and I, you know, and I will say on the record that if it takes giving up 27 to get a salary cap, I'm good to go. But don't give up

59:1627 and don't and not get that done. I mean, 94 was a waste. You might as well just gone forward and, and play the whole thing because that, that was the absolute disaster because you lost the whole, you lost, you lost what really the whole year because nothing went anywhere. And you didn't get anything done. Nothing. You're dead. Right. Everybody talks about that shutdown being so terrible for the game. And we lost viewers. And I'll never, I never came back because of it. Well, you never came back because they didn't fix it. Right. Have they actually fixed it? You come back because everything would have gotten better. But it is what it is. Great stuff. And by the way, this stealer season, if you see something really controversial happen, before you spout off about it, wait, just a couple days until Mike writes about it. So you can read a reasonable take before he starts deciding which side you fall on. I'm just going to advise it right now. He always comes in

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