Old World or Battle March? Pick Your Side! | Old World Fanatics - E161

0:00Welcome to the Old World, Fanatic Jawahame, a fantasy podcast to quench your hobby first for all things the Old World. I'm one of your host, come out and I'm back as usual with Andrew and Josh and we are hobbying today. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're hobby first is happening. I feel like it's the only way I can do hobby is I decided to tell these well, ask these guys, can we hobby today? Because we haven't done that in like two months or something. We've had so much talk about like we've not had opportunity to take it nice, easy, hobby night, yeah, and we had a plan for this episode and then it got a bit derailed because last week we had our usual like everyone was good and we we tried to battle March and then the next day I woke up and looked at the stats for YouTube and went, the hell was like,

1:00live streams generally don't get as many views as normal videos and obviously we aren't doing as many. Okay, I don't know, we don't get massive views, but like obviously our battle reports get a fair bit. The live streams never get as much as what the old sort of episode or if you did like a, if you did an Empire Arcane Journal, that would get heaps like, you know, that's something. And then we ended up back cock if we want to get serious about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the live streams just tell you as much. And then there was like literally, I don't know what it was just in a day was like four and a half thousand or something. I was like, what the? But I much must see it adored. And obviously all the other content creators have been doing some this week too. I haven't even caught up. But I guess Andrew, yeah, you're the one who then went, you just trolled the comments and thought this might be a good way to just keep going on that. Wow. I just want to have the discussion really because people were saying like, you know, it's like we're out of the loop. Like that on March is this huge thing taken the world by storm. And it was just like,

2:03what? Just I knew it was big some places, but it seemed like from some of the comments that it's a lot larger than what I actually anticipated it actually is. So yeah, I thought let's have chat around, you know, what countries it is begin and especially probably why what's driving it. Yeah, that's a big one. And so I thought if we talk, and then I went, can we hop a you as well? And then that's when we just that's good time. Let's just do that for the way. So yeah. So if you are catching us either for the first time or the 160 second or first time, we're here every Monday or Tuesday, depending on when I'm available really these days, I seem to call the shots for some reason. Because next week Josh, I did Monday. What? I saw your comment in the picture. I'm just getting an operation done on the Tuesday on my face. And I'm like, I don't want to be I won't be going to need to move it to my typical. I'm just got patrons

3:09go be me. But yeah, just have the same day every week. Whatever day it is, just pick one and stop moving it. Well, even on gum, I was usual. Yeah, sorry guys. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, but yes, otherwise we have a trial and staying on the Tuesdays most of the time because it has been good. But yes, we are three people chatting all world. And obviously, yeah, we're going to talk a bit about a bit of hobby. This episode. And just yeah, throw these like Andrew said, throw us your while you're here. If you are here, throw us your thoughts on battle march and where you are and what you're, you know, what you've been playing. But if you are listening back, always do appreciate a like and a subscribe if you're up for that. And if you want to join our patreon over and patreon.com session, oh, well, for that, X at half time or thereabouts when we remember, we do patented shout out, which we have patrons who sign up purely to put stupid names in for us to read out. So if you want to join them, you're more than welcome to as well. It does help.

4:12It's the value of the pressure of us getting these ridiculous. Yeah. I think I have to change some about tears where the tear is. You get a bigger shout out. So who's here before I'm going to have to move gears and who's in the chat? Oh, Maddie's back. I think he was off last week. I'm looking to half time to see if he has changed. She's known because I noticed it hadn't changed in a week or so. Maddie came down from a castle. So I probably, that's like a break. Bedfield's five, there's usual black schedule is on as usual and big eyes. Yes, good day. All. Oh, come on. I'm loving the battle builder. Thank you. I'll put that up there. I did tell people it's going to be out. Is it out yet? Is it out yet? I mean, it's all but I'm just doing all the collateral and it just takes a while to get it all done. I'm rebuilding, re-aiying all those lists that I converted to Old World Builder. I've been converted

5:15over to my battle builder format so that when you go open builder, it goes in the new one. It's just that crap. Unfortunately people are longer than I would like. Especially for the Renegade stuff. It'd be really nice to have a point people to go. Just go under the Old World Builder. All the Renegade Straffs are on the set. I think I'll probably turn it on tomorrow because it'll be done there. Most of my AI stuff will be finished and I'll just come on and you'll get a few emails. On top of that, I added, if I didn't want to turn this, that's next week maybe I'll spruce it more. German Comp is on there too, guys. That is a weekend. I'll tell you. If you ever want to look at the complexities of a Comp system that's squished into three pages, G's what they've done in German Comp is insane. It's actually not. It's like a different game, but it's also not. That was fun to get into the new battle builder. It is all compatible as well. If you are someone who plays LD3 or German Comp, the battle builder has all that built in as well,

6:19all the validation, all that stuff. I feel like it's the only way you can build this for it if you have an automated. I didn't realize that was complex because there was only like three pages. I'm like, oh, maybe that bad. It's crazy. I'll just interrupt because this stands. We're getting awesome. Black sigil, studios, as everybody knows, is going to start a bracket elimination tournament with all the battle march boxes to see which one comes out of it. How could he's that? And he's doing narratives. Man, that is the best. I don't know if we hear Shared any of this yet, but he's been sending me pictures of some of his terrain and some of the stuff he's built. And I'm like, man, that is it's looking insane. I'm assuming it's on his channel, but I have a chance to. I pay for his YouTube thing, but I'm actually watching it. So I'll have to catch up. But yeah, he's got anything to share. Throw it on the discord. Black sigil, I'd love to bring up.

7:19I think he's got the best terrain on YouTube. It's up there. I reckon if you put him in Cam in a room, they would never leave, but they'd be just light lighting and all this stuff everywhere. Josh has done all the scenery. He hasn't yet progressed to actually doing the filming and the lighting of the scenery. Yeah. No, no, no, haven't gone down there. Yeah. Maybe I was in the same stage as you guys and I actually set up games that might be different, but but no, I'm spending all my time. Well, what time I have making hobby. Yeah. Well, you're running a million tournaments these days. Oh, yeah, all that stuff. And running all the other rules. You've like taken me and Andrew together in terms of our playing and you've taken it on. So it's been good. You're going to go get some better machine at some point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Half the glory or something. All right. Yeah. Hence the hobby, it's to start getting some of that happening,

8:24some different armies, you know, a cafe, my empire. That's what I want to do. So, yeah. Got to move. Cool. Um, news though, I did want to bring up before I moved my desk here is, uh, it's like a old news, I guess now, but it's not for us because it wasn't here last week is the new novel that we are getting in, um, in old worlds. So finally, we're seeing a little bit of, um, Black Library love, which we hadn't seen since the beginning of what was that, nearly two, nearly three years, I should say. Um, yeah, yeah, exactly. Remember when Josh never played in coming in, Andrew would poke fun in, uh, those the days. That's right. Uh, I feel you guys are a bit burnt out from Castle and like, what's that man? I've, I mean, if you added up how many hours I'd done, I'll wear rankings and, you know, say, I do do a lot of hobby. It's just that. So more, yeah, that's the problem. It's nearly to a point I'll say in

9:28Andrews, it's not a tool point where I could put on a bit, but yeah. Um, but now I'm also thinking about bringing all the narrative campaign hosting into it as well. And you can register your end domains, put it on there and run all your hobby, hobby, terrain and narratives on as well. So, I don't know, I just keep, I need to stop at some point. Um, yeah, anyway, this, um, what do you think of this? I mean, they're going with the cafe stuff, which I, I guess it makes sense. I like at the end of the day, they put so much effort. Um, bit of a shame all this didn't come out with the actual releases of cafe, I guess. Um, but we'll just, yeah, timing is odd, isn't it? Yeah. I think the whole thing is all well. They're just took them by a surprise and they're just now they're trying to catch up. Um, yeah, I like it. It's a wild to write a book. Yeah. Yeah. I am surprised. I'm sorry. I am. I am actually, uh, keen to just providing it's written well. I know something you're going to get hit and mess with, obviously, but why I'm a fantasy novels. Um, yeah, if it does sort of delve in and you do learn

10:33a little bit about that cafe stuff, because it is pretty much, it's not as, it's not as, iOS, iOS in terms of what the hell is this stuff, but it is pretty much, I don't know if you know a lot about cafe and the arcane journals aren't, yeah, they're not at that codex old army book level where you learn a bit. There's just a little bit in there and it's just keeping your toes in, so it'll be hopefully it's, does it, did you guys know this author? Evan Dickinson? No, I've got a really no, yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah, so I don't know. It's interesting. When does this actually, does it say, when does it go for Priyatta? Well, I was going to ask you guys, did you guys actually rate Lord of the Lance or Lord's, Lord's of the Lance? No, you should have man. You audioed it, hey Andrew, that's right. Yeah. I'm lazy. I, I won't finish any book. Um, yeah,

11:34yeah, I audioed it. I still have my special edition sitting out there where it wasn't to be finished. Never. Yeah, gathering dust. Well, those are right. It's like they were just trying to like make it a bit, I felt like they were forcing a bit of PC into it. I don't mind a bit of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, just a bit too forced. We're all so like, some of the old books that got male and female characters and they're still really cool and like the females still kick us, but they just, they don't seem as large. Yeah, they're always the alpha and all the managers dumb walking around. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's that, but also it was just a weed book in the sense that you could tell it was commissioned before the new thing they were doing. So I had all that vampire stuff, which was actually pretty cool. I didn't mind some of that stuff and that was actually quite of, I was kind of not a bad part of the book. I thought, sorry, I'm spoiling spoiler alert spoiler alert. You know, that part was actually interesting, but then you find out the legacy.

12:38What's happening here? I don't know. I'm a tomb king fan and I just feel it's a little hard to, I don't know. Don't you reckon it's hard to, I don't know, like humanize some of that stuff. Like the negash series is interesting, but it's, you know, his human and stuff in those. I don't know. Like do you guys read any, like when stuff's like way out alien stuff, it's just sometimes harder to, that's why you just want the humans. Unfortunately, a little bit. No, I'm still trying to get over the fact that you just spoiled the rest of the Lord's, the Lord's and lions for me. Yeah, sorry, spoiler. I don't think anything in it is spoiled. There was nothing in it. I don't know. Anyway, it's a, I didn't write it massively. So hopefully this is, I don't mind if this is the same level. I just hope it's a little better, but yeah, it's for it is. I think that's great. We've got a new book though, right? Like we actually have another book in the Black Library. Number two, finally. Yeah. It got to be positive. Yeah.

13:43No, it'll tell a little bit. I'm interested. Yeah. Yeah. But no, sorry, I was going to say, so I just sigma, because when I finished Gotra, I can feel it's I delved into the age of sigma realm just to continue that going, see how it went, dip my toe, and it's got female leads in that. And they're actually, they're completely different to the Lord's and the lands, like just the way that they betray them and the way it's written. So you can still have like, you know, in, I just, I don't know, there was just something the way that that was written it just didn't, yeah, yeah, just didn't scratch, scratch my itch. I don't know. And maybe it wasn't even an issue. Maybe there was the original directive too about where all world was going to be. It's, I don't know, I just feel like things changed and so, yeah, it'd be interesting to actually now, maybe I should do that as go back and listen to the audio book or something. Now that all world's out and you sort of know a bit more about the whole story, like it feels like that whole tomb king and Brett figures, setra's,

14:44storming the old world has just, has largely been forgotten. Like, yeah, like, like, every that's just chaos now and cafe. So, yeah, which is what the story is saying, but at the same time, it's, I don't know, it's, it's not setting you up to this big, I don't feel like I'm on a knife's edge or anything put it that way with all the narratives. Yeah, yeah. So, but I do, no, I'm really keen to actually learn a little bit about how they bit more and while I'm painting the army, maybe it'll put a little bit of juice in that as well. Who knows? Oh, nice. You're getting, you're getting it done? Well, yeah, a little bit of that tonight as well. Oh, right. That's on the menu. Yeah, a little bit of menu. Yep, a bit of that. Yeah, does it say anything about launching when the book goes and say, okay, yeah, keep your own warm gears. We launch your own sky lantern. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Honey funny. And cool. And what about the kiss lever rooms? Oh, is that the, is that the,

15:47can you call the picture? The old room engine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I didn't, we're, I can't find that. Yeah. The wolf, the wolf, the space, yeah. The space. Sorry. You reckon it's kiss, you reckon it has to be kiss love. Yes. Yeah. I'm saying it now. I'm putting my foot down. It's gotta be. You think it's 40. 40 K? Ah, I don't know. Yeah, there's so much bloody 40 K as well. Space marines are coming out who, who bloody knows, although space wolves are not coming out yet. I don't think so. Oh, Alex, it's not, it's not the image. Oh, one of the tuning, you must find it. Yeah, tuning the behemoths. I am totally, as I said, I haven't really done much YouTube lately or another stuff. Mark will know if you have us for right. So, you look at the room as last week before we went on, but I just haven't done it this week. So

16:50maybe someone checked the disc. Good. Yes. Cool. Okay. Well, I have to move seats because I can't hobby at this day. So, I don't know how Josh manages to have all that set up and the mic and everything as well, although Andrew does too. So, it's all set up. I've got a very multi-use desk going on here. Yeah, I've only got one camera, so I can't really do too much. Yeah. I don't have enough light here this one. I've got light over there. So, Josh, what was on your okay, I'm going to drop off. I'll come back. Yeah, no, I was, well, what was on your hobby table, Josh, are you going to show us? It's coming up. I've printed a little jungle tree. Oh, there we go. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. This camera is weird. There we go. So, I've got a lot of printed out in resin, even though it's a side of FDM because it was going to take too long.

17:54It's going to take like 24 hours to print this. So, I just print it off in resin. Which means I now have to do a whole bunch of one like gap filling for where the resin bits do really come together. Anyway, I am now printing off a whole bunch of other jungle terrain, which I'm very excited about. But I feel that it's going to become a quite a big hobby project, and I'm not sure that I'm going to get it all done in the time frame that I want to get it done, but it's Ryan. We'll see. Is that going to be the new land of Lustria, the new world? Yeah, the jungle. Yeah. Yeah, we will be Lustria themed, for sure. So, is that what you said? Is that the top of a tree? Yeah. It's got a little of lines at the bottom. That's quite cool. I had to print this.

18:55So, this was a Lust Kingdom one. I printed this thing at 60% of its 32, a parent 32 millimeter scale. Yeah. And it's still like it's a deal of the even size. But it's really fun. And I find it terrain, especially. You don't want to go through hard on the scale. You can easily, like, if you scale a bit smaller, you can give a better sense of the size of the world almost. Whereas if you scale it real size to what the minis are, you can sort of end up with terrain that's way bigger than it needs to be. I reckon. Yeah. And you can't get the nice sort of, yeah, since it's a scale that you'd otherwise get. Well, that's funny, Josh. This is something that I was telling about on the, what was it? The bamboo? Was it my world's? Or... Yeah, I'll make a world.

19:56Make a world that one. So, yeah, you've got to building 100% on like, that's way too small. Then, yeah, I scaled up. And I still think it's too small. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know the greatest one. Yeah. I'm printing another one currently for a room building. It is deceptive and it's hard because, you know, it shows you on the build plate and then, well, I'm getting the build plate out. I'm trying a lot to work out. Or, you know, the picture says, this big on the build plate. But yes, it's deceptive. Yeah. What you kind of, I found, 13 that works, is having something else that you've printed that you like the scale of, loading the digital version into the build plate and then having that next to what you're trying to print. And then using that as your guide reference. Yeah. That's just being smart. Can you tell me a little bit about this thing? Because I didn't really know. So, it's like, is it all three or is it just come if you've got a printer from them? Well, that's three. It's just makeable.com is, when you get the bamboo printer, it's a

20:57bamboo hamburger app and it just sort of, yeah, it's like gives you direct act like you just go in and just automatically pretty much download the files and then send it to your printer. Yeah. And then just, it's very easy. It's not like, it's all different stuff. It's like, my mini, it's not all that's not like, yeah, none arts. Yeah, it's all toys and stuff. Just anything. I'll get a photo. Need kind of tools and yeah, it's just, there's there's H stuff. But yeah, like I said, there's lots of STLs that are from previous Kickstarter. So there's actually some real good quality stuff on there. Like there's minis, there's H stuff. It's really, really good. And then yeah, you just download it and just go straight into your slicer, slice it away. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, it's really cool. Oh, no, we got it.

22:01Oh, I think the more to new badger is mentioning it. Oh, it's a, I wasn't hearing it, go. Now I'm not on my other thing, but I mean, it should have. It should have. I've got a tiny tiny echo from you, gumbo, but it's tiny. It's not. Got the echo cancellation on the, that's better, that's what I can get. Yeah, that's fine. I'm gonna headphones on. Just stop. Thanks. All right. Well, you guys start. I might start on this and I'll be interested to see what the the audience thinks with the main topic. So going off, I think, from last week, it was quite

23:09interesting to see so many people mentioning that the old one wasn't really a thing in their local areas or regions, sort of like that sort of tap it off and battle march has really taken taken off, which surprised me because I'd say within Australia, our experience is sort of the opposite that battle march is like quite small. People are doubling in it. Ross, the old world still seems to be raining, but it seems like in other regions because I have heard in the UK, battle march is quite, quite big. I'm not too sure on the US and Europe, but yeah, I was very surprised from some of the comments. So I started delving into things a little bit and yeah, as I shared with you guys, it talks about the old world has basically got a huge following from, you know, guys who used to play it, so very nostalgic, which puts the average or world player

24:13in the 35th to 45th age bracket. Obviously there's out. Yeah, 45 to what? 45 or 35th. Yeah, so Smack Bang Malini. Yeah, I'm almost out of that. And that got me thinking as well when it was like, how much free time does the average 35, 45 year old actually have for hobbies? And this is where it's sort of got to be interesting. So I used the devil's magic AI and it's sped out some figures at me. Yeah, the average 35, 45 year old male has only got about five hours a week for hobbies, just because you got jobs. There's a lot more commitments now with kids. It's not like the old days, not supervision and whatnot. It wasn't so much money. It's same what money wasn't the biggest issue. It was more time constraints. So that's all

25:16for me back to, is this sort of like a hybrid where a world might be, you know, you want to play all world because it's that nostalgic setting, but it's giving you the ability to crank out a game in an air in a bit sort of thing. Ross, the average game, I mean, come on, how long do we take some time? Yeah, for us. But wait, we piss fight around a lot. So yeah, it's, I'm just wondering if it's is this whole thing just a time constraint? Like, is it just, what do you guys think is driving the, you know, the whole battle? Yeah, it's a, well, definitely, it's that and the costs and the effort. So I'm sorry, I shouldn't say costs. It's more the cost of time and effort to get an army on the table. You just don't have that problem when it's a bit smaller, I guess.

26:21And it's not, yeah, it's not just that it's also the length of the plate actually using those models, too. Yeah, you're doing that like garage game where it's a 2000 point game. As you guys well know, you're literally spending about a good four hours trying to try to play that, play that out, right? Yeah, I should play it all the time, 100%. Like, because you're like, no, but even if you do play it all the time, if you're playing as a, you know, casually, we're having a laugh. Yeah, you're just like enjoying a leisurely pace of it, a 2000 point down. Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is fine if you've got the time or you do it once in a year and then, but yeah, to do it all the time, most fat, most normal people, and we're not normal. I'm not going to do it. That is true. Yeah, I guess, skirmish games and that kind of thing, they don't go for four hours.

27:22You know, like you're looking at your marble product, you know, crisis protocol and that kind of stuff. You know, people can crack through games in 20, like half an hour or so, you know, like it's sort of where the modern hobby style games are sort of heading. Yeah, it's a cleaner rules, faster games, the only thing I can I like devil's advocate, not devil's advocate, going for it. Go for it. It's obviously AOS and 4K have had to be head and combat the troll and all that. I just don't know, like how, but then you look at something like at least 40K, and I'm not honest in it from AOS, but 40K is just free to future, right? You have 800 people, tournaments and the big LVOs and all this, but you know, obviously you have hundreds normally. Is that mean the combat patrol scene is like 10 times bigger than that? Or is it? Yeah, I guess the, don't I mean, like if it's either, if really the size and length of

28:24time and effort to put a big army together, do you see the same thing in 40K or do you not? It's a question more than I don't have, I don't have no idea. I just, for those maybe listening, like what is that? I don't know. What is your AI say about that, Andrew? Yeah, well, I might have to plug that in, but yeah, I think Matty's, this is the other point that I was thinking as well, is just a problem with the base that all world is currently is, as Matty's saying, it takes longer to play similar points for AOS compared to older version, due to how complex the rules are or how badly written they are, but also the fact that I think they're spread across as we know, you know, you got Arcane Journals, the main rulebook, FAQs, all that. It does seem a bit muddied. It just, it does need...

29:24Probably agree with that. A more complex, well, still a complex game, but with a better simplified rule set. Yeah, it's definitely going to help. What's Alex saying? Yeah, it's also a more advanced system, dual muscleists. Oh, yeah, here you go. So this, I think this is what they were talking about, or you were talking about Goma earlier with Battlemarch. So yeah, you can take dual muscleists in events where you can see your matchup and change. So effectively, you can take the same army, but have what two different sort of lists and then swap between the two depending on what your opponent's got, which I think is pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think, and I like the explanation in the book was, which is actually, I think it's spot on, was like, obviously in small

30:27armies, you don't, you can't take all the stuff you might want to take or you're bringing or you're trying to build up. So being able to take two muscleists means you can, if you want, take radically different armies to use more of your collection. That's really a point. Like small game. Like, you still use that, that you're using some of it in that game and something. I think it's just so compatible to getting into the game as well as growing the game and growing your armies. And that's I don't, I don't know if I'd put it down as a versus one versus the other. It's more hopefully it's synergistic. No, definitely one with Seattle. The purpose of this clickbait is definitely, you know, only play one. Choose, choose your one. Well, we already play one. So I guess that's true. Well, I think, yeah, it's, there does tend to be a more dominant saying like wherever you are.

31:29You know, I think you can have this changing. Like, if you have a look like at the back end of this year in Australia, even though there's so many battle march, especially as Christmas comes, comes close and yeah, then suddenly you'll be a little battle march events come up. Victoria is just like now, battle march country and nothing else. No other is even got like a battle march game say now happening in one in one of the gaming stores in a couple weeks. Sorry, yeah, that's all Victoria is now. I don't know. Victoria, the battle march is nothing good. But yeah, I guess the other question is, you know, do you lose anything by dropping down to those points in terms of the enjoyment of the game and the tactics and how you actually play it? Oh, yeah, true. I can't. I can't comment on the enjoyment of it, but I mean, I just pre-ordered a massive dragon that can't fit in that much, but you know, is that

32:31you can't bring a dragon. Can you drag it out of here? And I'll answer my own question then, because neither of you can answer it. And that is no, you don't lose anything. It's as fun as the big games. The tactics are different. And to some extent, there are, you know, it is sort of a simple battle field just because it's smaller, but you're still having to make lots of key decisions about where to push things. And, you know, the good thing is though, it doesn't drag on. Like, you make some bad decisions, the dice goes against you, and then there's like, oh, it's all over, you know, get rack up for another game kind of thing. And that's really, even for when you are playing with new players, like for them to just, you know, just play it through in like 45 minutes and now, with you as a demo game, rather than losing interest because it's been almost two hours, and they tell them that it's a real time. It's almost two weeks for my own stuff. Yeah. Yeah, like that's the worst case scenario if you're playing, because often I reckon that a lot of new

33:33players have come in, you know, historically, you know, the experience for us is racked up like, yeah, 2000 points aside, and then it's just there for hours on end, just completely exhausted from it. It could be a different experience. But still, yeah, as a game, still entirely engaging and really fun to play. And yeah, like I knew it even back when I was playing slow grows in the six years, slow growing, we're playing 400 points, 600 points, 800 points. And then back then, I was like, these are fun games. Like I'm really enjoying it. Like this is not like I sort of, I wish there was more popular, even back then. You know a lot of the old band stuff where you were still. Well, I was, like that was my, so when I did the battlematch event back in February, originally that was going to be a six-set war band event. And then I swapped it over to Tau because I was like, in that year, I was sort of like, oh, look, maybe I'll just give Tau more of a go because it doesn't begin better. But yeah, it was keen to actually do six sets.

34:35So I was, I was already like going, this is actually a good, a really, a really fun way of playing whatever. So the only thing is when I wish, I don't think Alice says on the chat, but I mean, Alex's but this is I think almost more controversial is what size, that's probably what should the total of the, what size, what points a little bit of battlematch is the rest. It feels like that, that feels like that is the heated discussion on some of these where you've got like the people who saying 750 even is too big and then there is some chat saying that there was not so much keenness on 750. And I must admit, I really, I really only paid 650s. But yeah, I feel like 750 is too, it's not, doesn't have the same sort of size I reckon to it. Yeah, I think 600 would be sweet spot, but yeah, 650 was fine with character limitations. Because you, you know, you want a bit of variety in

35:38there. But yeah, you know, yeah, you want to, you want to make sure that the lists, you're just not seeing the same things just at a smaller scale than what you see in the normal game. I'm not saying you would even at 750, you're not sure you might start seeing some of the combos are still good. Okay, you can think in, we're when you get that, that's the same thing. I'll just certainly you know, to probably, you know, if you can start being able to take certain things at 750 that you might start skewing into. Not 100% obviously because you can't fit 2000 points. Yeah, I agree. And I feel the ability of the 600 or 650, yeah, some of those nasty characters you just can't get loads on. Sorry, Shijengens is a good example of that, you know, where they're already 145 points. You can't fit the meat but do you can't put anything on?

36:39You've got about five points of Monday and equipment you can select from. You're getting heavy armor, so let's do your blades, the cafe and the hands, you have to sort of pick two out of the three, maybe one out of a three, depending on which one you go for. So yeah, it really does, it does completely new to some of those really more powerful characters. And there's other things like I do, I have become an advocate of the 20% reduction in spend for magic item around and that kind of thing. I think that's it doesn't seem like it's very much just dropping about 20%. I think it's really hardy, it actually massively changes things. And one particular example that I really like is the dwarf thing. You can't run dirty harry. Yeah, yeah, he points the broons. Yeah, is that out? Is he the worst man on the field? I think any time for shooting like that and like anything that he's not all much.

37:42He's brood. Yeah, he's just comping if he's trying to run him because it's just he does walks that off you. Yeah, I know in full size games, he's sort of diluted in the fetch, but yeah, in that context he's actually kind of a bit. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, yeah, I don't mind it. So Alex is saying that the gamers had a good hour with the chatting on this topic in their latest episodes. So yeah, check him out, definitely. Yeah, the boys have a good yarn for sure. He was sending me messages last night on WhatsApp or not, I was trying to go bed. But anyway, I promised we did not rip you off. But actually, this was, no, I think it was after last week or like, oh, yeah, we'll continue on with the the thread. Comments here. Like the rappers saying you played two, 500 point battle marks since last night's episode is usual.

38:42One weekly 2k game. Very fun. The other day I thought you've seen so far as you're tired again, because at one moment, where the game was one to the no comeback, which I think that's just a nature of such a small game, you know. I'm just going to go to that basket. So like the entire game can come into one moment where they get faster. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's the far we're going to go. But you don't care about it if you're racking up multiple times. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Oh, you're going. No, no, you get it. I was just going to say, probably Josh might have helped me out. But do you think with six? Because the way I look at the scale is in like the, you know, the amount of models for points where our world is somewhere between like six and eight of our findings. Do you do you think that if you maybe scale back the points and simplify the rules set,

39:46you'd have a better game? Like not scale back the points, but more like the size of the units and the size of, you know, the amount of units on the board. I just found in six, you didn't quite get as many units on the board as probably oh well, that that's the way I just feel. Yeah, like a 2K game from six, Senator 2K game from oh well, it just seems like sixth was just, you didn't have as many models on the board. So it seemed to go a little bit quicker in my opinion. And there were a lot less rules than sixth. Six, six, when quicker because if you lose a break check, you have a very good chance of having the unit taken off the board. You know, like I feel like that it was more than just about. Whereas unit retention in oh well, it's just rush more problem, but sorry, that's something you were talking about. Army size, I feel like, you know, well, this is smaller, because people tend to spend so much more points on characters. I think true costs is fairly

40:51equivalent. I don't think the true cost per model is very different to six said. And then going down to smaller armies, I think the difference is maybe that the six said books didn't have the lower minimum unit sizes that the old wall has. So it was harder to get lots of different small units in those smaller point games. On the other hand, war bands rules did account for that and you could have missed some more minimum units than normal. Is Andrew gone? We haven't heard you. He's been playing around with his. I keep answering his question. Yeah, keep going. No, but I agree. And then Maddie's put a thing up saying 3k about it. Thanks about the same time as two game. Oh well, if anything I do feel like it's the game mechanic and rules and the fact that it and I don't want to criticize, oh well, it's freaking awesome. I feel like it is a little bit like that thrown a lot of stuff at the wall from different editions to see what sticks and there is some things in there that you go,

41:51well, it's been interesting. The whole game grand four backs interesting, but at some point you go, does it add much to the game? I mean, add stuff to the game, but does it add stuff? This seems bad realistic to the game, or the fact that you can fall back and reform and all that stuff. That's just bizarre. There's some things in there that just added that yeah, like I think in the old editions you would just die, so that unit was gone. Yeah, more of a game mechanic issue rather than a size issue as such. And then on top of that, then they keep, I can't, I can't tell you how I'm bitching, but I'm not. I just, it's just what they're done as well. They're tried to, I feel like they're, because when they've been comped stuff to take power out of it, they keep comping, comping, comping, not, and then leaving the old comps in when they probably shouldn't. And so then you start nerfing, but there's nothing back, I don't know, there's nothing that can just wipe things there, or it gets that point where there will be something else that can.

42:52All right, and then like, his drag, the drag is to take himself a table, and now they can no longer do that. So everything is becoming less similar to people, so actually, you're just going on drag and drag and then you can just be kind of like a drag and then you can't spell like a lot of flyer things off, but then you can't do that either. It's certainly, it's cool, but there's suddenly nothing diced right up like it's a, yeah, just a lot on the board, hangs around potentially, unless you're playing against cafe and three cannons and all that, but outside of that. I agree with you, and I think what probably the most critical or the old world is that you're not rewarded for out, but you're like getting an opportunity to get in a nasty flank charge into another unit in a way that can really punish them, because often if they just fall back in good order, they fall back, they reform into, you know, facing you and you're like, okay, like I killed three guys. It was a beautiful flank charge, but then you just still there. I feel like that is, yeah, one of the let downs, I suppose,

43:59and like I'm not critical of stuff, but I do feel like they've tried some things. Okay, well let's do that. Let's play this game, and I know this is not bad on March, but it is bad on March versus Oldville. Yeah. Give me like, I don't know five, but five might be too much without you guys preparing for it, but like, give me three things in Oldville that you would definitely want to keep in V2, and three things you're definitely going to throw out in V2. Jeremy, but that's deep. Listen to that, and maybe you can throw out the episode, but I just want to maybe ask the chat, though, they'll come on better ideas. Yeah. Ah, I think you're right, Bart Loth. Get rid of the bio go and just do the standard. What was in sixth, I think. Because yeah, you definitely need to kill stuff off quicker, and just the whole, it seems to slow everything down. Just trying to like work out, you know, leaderships, and I don't know, like it just, it gets a bit, and then it's like, which way are you

45:00going when you got like those big combines? Because it seems like, because it slows everything down, you end up having a CD. It's not like, I was reading the battle march book, and you know, like there's the, the special feature thing sits in the middle of the table, right, and you can roll a dice. And one of the things is you become stubborn, right? Yeah. To me, stubborn should be unbreakable, but it's not. It's like you can fly go. So you potentially could like, for bi go out of the, the realm of being stubborn, because you might be on the edge of this feature, and then you get for bi go. I don't just feel the weed. There's some things in it where you're just like, I don't know, it's just that you haven't thought through it as much or, and maybe that's in a stowder going back to what the old editions were, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, but I'm not, so I'll bring it back to battle march. So for those who have played it, how many of you have played it against a person who hasn't played the game before or, yeah, that might be Warhammer 40k plays, but I haven't,

46:01like I guess how many people have been introduced through that that you guys have done, or, and this is to the chat, obviously, because I don't know how much Josh has, but, um, you know, you would hope that battle march obviously helps new players come along. So I'd love to hear that. I played better much my cousin, like, yeah, I did do a daily game. That's right. Yeah. Totally worked. I did a, I did a one, well, I did one way was his cousin, my cousin, my brother, and I was just like the referee. Yeah. Yeah. And then they teamed up the Rami's and they both played me. Yeah, it was fun. We got through games and about a couple of hours. Yeah. You know, um, and were you printing an army for a minute, something? What happened there? What was that thing? You're doing something for him. Oh, I made an empire army. Yeah. But then you decided to get his own to Warhammer because I don't have to empire. So ironically, anyway, yeah. Yeah. Still a Patreon. Now, well, one bit, I was going to answer the question. I think I think part of the question Andrew,

47:07I was like, army size and that type of thing. And one thing I did want to address with battle march is in terms of unit size and unit numbers. And I think it's actually quite important with battle march that there is at least three, ideally four different units on the table. Um, on each side. Yeah. Because if there's not enough units, if you're only like two units in your army, that is a problem. Yeah. You know, you're not actually having any interesting decisions about where you maneuvering stuff. Yeah. And I think that that can really attract from the game. So that's got to be, I think it's really important. Um, but if you've got four units, you got a bit of a block, you got some cab, you got some skirmishy stuff and something else. Um, I think I think that's where you get a fun game. Because then, because you know, really in terms of the armies, like as long as you got, you know, it doesn't matter how big the units are, but each unit is like an interaction point. And you know, if you've got, if you've got enough of those different

48:07interaction points to make decisions about, that's where you get the fun out of. So yeah, it just needs to be, you know, enough variance in units to create that. And I think, I think, yeah, even small better marches can do that pretty well. Yeah. No, good point. I'll hit up some of these comments from the questions raised about obviously what rules should we throw out, keep, etc. So yeah, Regis is just saying throw out the, um, we can strike back rules and reduce the number of special rules. Um, yeah, bent was, uh, revert back to the pre the old world base ozzes. So I mean, I'm hearing reports that there's a new cast worry is can barely rank up on the big, on the new big bases as it is. Oh, no, actually, what do they do? I started putting some of them

49:13together tonight, but I'll probably get to it. Yeah, I don't know what they are doing. Um, Marx had some good points. So yeah, keep that a march. Law scenarios, get rid of combat, redo it, make fear, mean something. I reckon that's really good. Um, and skins for too many armies. That's a really good point. Maddie's come back. Yeah. So combat magic, psychology needs to be simplistic. Um, of eighth would be my key points of change. Um, oh, simplicity of eighth. Yeah. So that's really good point. Um, and then Martin saying, yeah, for battle march, uh, is up to seven new players introduced. Yeah, that's, um, yeah. And that's what I hope. And that's what you want to, like, that's sort of what I brought up last week that like I think, um, for the game to go where we want it to go and not just be all the same people we play it, it needs new people and I just don't know when it's an edge, when it's not the main 40k game of games workshop, they're not going to put,

50:16like, you're not going to walk into a game's workshop and play old world. That's just not a thing. So, um, and I don't even know if you play old world when we battle march in a game's workshop. So yeah, it has to come through the community and the only way to do that is if it's easier and it more accessible for someone to play. So I'm just going to get my dog. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's coming from me, Zyronic, even though I'm really playing it, but I mean, I would have been a little bit more time. But, I just think, yeah, I just think it's really good to see them do it because I just, it means they're not building it. There was the critic, there was the critique of old world that it was literally like a grab just to redo the old stuff, really old hammer people and, uh, and I think battle march is showing that there. That's not a case. Yeah. I think I've even moved on from that now. They've decided to grab any more. So they're trying to do something else. Yeah. And yeah, I think totally the right

51:18check. Yeah. Like I'm totally on board what they're doing. I mean, I'll catch up. But again, I'm not their market. I'm quite happy to plow along every year and make a 2000 point for me. You know, I know that that's not that is not the norm, you know, and, um, you're not in the way. That does throw is a question of what happens to the sl, you know, how everyone used to do slow grows to encourage people to build up to the 2000 points. Is that even the thing anymore? Or if people just build battle march armies and then, you know, we could have better march armies and then by the time you don't force me suddenly, you're almost, you know, anyway, is it more accessible? Because you can start like at 400 and go all the way to 750 or whatever. But then yes, to side, if you want to do battle march, slow grows. Yeah. Maybe the battle march slow grow is a goes from 400 to 750 or whatever it is. But also you need to, you need to then progress. It's like five games or whatever, five months

52:18then four and five have to use different must-a-list. I mean that you've got it in. So you actually are building. Ah, right. Yeah. So they once and stun you might have had say 1200 points of armies ready to go through to two K. That's if two K even stays the theme, you know, I mean, like does it have to really? Well, yeah, I don't know that it don't like, well, yeah, that's a reason I'll question, yeah, it's 3000 even like the, why is that even the baseline? I guess more and more I'm starting to think, you know, what's why do we even play 2000 points? Yeah, true. We just always do it. Yeah, just because creatures have had it man, creatures have it. Okay, so I have one more sort of conspiracy tutorial, why don't I put this conspiratorial, but I'm pretty sure because I still do not have the battle march book, right? It's always sold out. Is that a sign that games are just like it takes, you know, they've already printed the run and they've got so much else in the queue

53:20that they can't reprint yet? Or would they not reprint the battle march from Pentium, seeing how well it went and bring out a new battle march, you know, like a redo another battle march with maybe even two new launch boxes as well and do another battle march version, you know, like a version two about one. There's a whole different book again, given how good that one went. Yeah, and they will do that at some point. I guess it's a question of how soon, because it'll be, you're talking like next year or this year? Well, this year, like, I mean, they're not, I don't know, like it's still out of stock, like how, out of stock is this thing printed in China or something, isn't it? Yeah, unless it's not out of stock and I just haven't got the email from games actually, it's in stock, and I think Andrew, you called me the other day, it's obvious. No, I couldn't find it. I'm can to get one too, because I think we need to buy the bullet and dip

54:25dip the toe, definitely. Maybe the whole, the whole lagging. If I said to, you know, Joe blow down the road, you should play battle march and they still can't go into freaking store and buy the battle march, but what are we talking about here? Yeah. There you go. Look at that. That's a very good point. It's a very good point. So, GW runs off FOMO. They're probably only print enough to make profit and cares zero up to it. Yeah, the worst is the problem. That's sort of my point then. Like, again, unless you can buy it in a store, it's useless. But because the only people who know about it, the people have already vested it in that case, we don't need battle march. That's like, I don't know. I just, I hope it's, you know, they catch up on this stuff because they tend to do this, don't they? They have a really good idea and it's happening and it's good and then suddenly they start hitting off people's goodwill because they just can't catch up because

55:26they're on success with everything else. Yeah. It's, I do find it a little bit strange that, I don't know, is, you know, GW always says that they're not, you know, they don't. They're not there for the tournament scene as much, but then they kind of post their own tournament sort of they're like, oh, we don't look at balancing things so much, but then they kind of do like it's, it's almost like they say they don't, but they do if you know what I mean. But it's strange that they don't really try and push a points format and a rules set for that format that's going to typically run for that, you know, I would say what will be the optimal game time for the, the age group of people that are going to play it. So it's like maybe, you know, a sub to our game would be perfect and they sort of use that as their blueprint for the rules set if you understand my meaning. Yes, I get, I get, yeah, I guess my view of it is

56:30if you count the amount of hours people do in the hobby, the gaming part would be so miniscule. So it'd always be irrelevant. Even if you're talking about, I know people do tend to talk about tournament versus diary versus whatever, but in reality most people don't play the game. Yeah, okay. They collect and they pay and they collect plastic boxes and don't undo them and they just sit on spree and they buy another set and they pay, they go off and do something else. All right, I don't know, that's my gut feel. Dracking 50 or Dracking the heart. No, that'd be 30. Yeah, that'd be generous, I reckon. Yeah, there are. All right, and like an email, a person who would buy actual minutes, like you just look on Facebook, how many people sell something and you can tell them how to fight, you just never touched it. It's just sad. They go photo. Yeah, that's what it's doing.

57:32Yeah, it's really personally attacked. Hey, I've got no numbers to back that up. It's purely just my gut feel. Oh, no, yeah. Most people in this hobby that they sell to don't even get me playing the game. So for all us, winging whether or not a narrative versus tournament, it's irrelevant because it's not. I wonder if it's like, you know, intense and purposes because like, I've got a shed full of intense purposes where I want to paint it all to a very good standard and take its tournaments, but it's like you just never do. But yeah, oh, you know, imagine. I go to be of all seven years of birth, brats, painting and, I've got a strong color. Benzel had to take a long time to paint 7000 with one of the brats,

58:34considering how good they are. I'd like to see the book narrative for 7000 point army. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to say it's like a book. It's so good. I mean, I'm sounding negative in this whole thing. I'm like, I'm really so positive about that that puts so much effort into battle march and that the debris working the, I mean, this is like I said, this is the first, I'm pretty sure this is the first edition of Warhammer Fantasy that has ever had this as their way of getting into the game. You can see where they're going. Every battle, every box set will be a battle. And it's never been done, you know. So I think it's, that's all, what, sorry, what a black citizen, is that? Oh, he's just talking about like the, like the edition blur between, yeah, get the rules wrong from different editions. Yeah, it happens all the time.

59:36Yeah. What, I find it weird I can't remember the rules of 8th edition when we go back and talk about them. Oh, really? Was that a rule? I can't remember that. Like I can't believe I get nightbath confused with 8th because I didn't, I don't feel like I played 9th that much. Yeah, I don't think you played it very much at all. You need to rest it really. Well, how long did that last game go for? It went for a good year and a bit, didn't it? 9th before they, well, even longer before they, 10th plan of the days. Yeah, version 1. For the renamed everything. Yeah, how long did that version go? Oh. I think about a year. Oh, yeah, that bad. You got that one massive cast of the soul team. Yeah. Everyone played it. And I did play it with the new exhaustion. I was like, I'm just sort of just a little bit into whatever it was called or whatever. But I did resilience, but I didn't get too far on it. Like, and I think Andrew, you'd moved away then as well and say to Josh.

1:00:38I was like, yeah. Yeah. Up to the norm territory when nobody plays. Yeah. Yeah, the sticks literally. Are you guys moved and then there's like, I was a bit of Kings of War happening and I played a bit of that and then just, yeah, I just went out there. It's pretty great. I don't remember what I'd paint now. I painted these guys. I didn't actually because I was switching over. I didn't say what I was doing. I'm, um, I'm trying to try. Like I've been doing my, uh, jay warriors. But I'm going to try and I'm now probably won't get to it because it's already an hour in. I'm going to try paint one of them in the celestial dragon guard colors just to see how that works because I've made to like a unit of them. Yeah. And the jay blows because I've got my like celestial dragon guard for my miao ying model and stuff. Yeah. We'll see. That's what I'm going to try to. But I'm not getting very far.

1:01:39It's hard to talk with the paint. I don't know how Josh doesn't. Yeah, I can't do it. I'll just give it up. No, I'm just painting. I'm not talking. And then on the side, I've got some empire that I'm rebasing to try out some quick, quick-ass rebasing, basing material. I'm having a lot of trouble with my, I decided with my jungle tower, how to base everything out. Like, because I would like to have, obviously with the forests, I want to be able to remove the trees and stuff. But I feel like with the forests, it's got to feel quite dense. Like, yeah, yeah. Almost like a quite a large base for like forest. And then there's a question of, do I just make the whole thing one removable base? What do I have like two or three in there that I can sort of take out and switch around? Yeah, I don't know. And I still haven't really come for terms without the, what to do?

1:02:43I was almost thinking with, because we had sort of removable trees, some more removable than others at Castleess Salt. And I was almost thinking about getting the forest footprint. This kind of like one and it hasn't got like the little holes for the trees as such. And then just getting a piece of, you know, two mil steel basically putting it down the bottom and then just have like a magnet under the tree. So you can actually kind of stick to it. You can move it around. You just make sure that I don't know how, what, these two mil magnets I think would be able to hold it there, but not enough to start to pull them off. Yeah, I just, I wouldn't want to try something like that. Wait, so that's to make the tree stick to the forest base? Is that the idea? Yeah, it is not going around. It just moved around.

1:03:44Basically, and you can even put like the tree on like a little sort of, it's own little base and then just put some, you know, grass, static and whatever around it. That would be something that would look quite nice and would be quite easy to move the trees around and you're not left with these holes. Yeah. Because you get it in a hole like a cut out, Josh. So we're with a jungle because you know, I actually wanted to look quite thick. So you're normally my trees are in holes and I must have now been moving to make your holes with bigger bases so the trees can sort of stand more easily. But I feel like with a jungle, I've got like these side cut out, cut out and I'm going to have to like, I would like quite a lot of dense vegetation that's still removing. So for me, that's either, you know, I will have cut out, but then it's a question of,

1:04:47you know, like, do I make the cut out itself like like a big sort of third and then like another third and another third or like, you know, I mean, or like the whole thing just is like a sprint and it's just removing the base underneath and just leave it as these kind of thing that actually, yeah, I'll just do that. Should I just show this to the whole thing fixed on it and then do like my black footprints. And I've already done for like my fields and the data straight and stuff. Yeah, that's that's literally what Ciddle just said. So yeah, thanks to Tony's having all of the trees coming off a single base is better for speed purposes and just a bit cleaner when you play, but for general games, I like each tree being able to be removed. So it helps with my immersion. Yeah, well, I do like often on my other ones that I made, I've had like two little mini bases of three trees or something on one. And so again, like sort of what you just did, you know, Joshua, you can take half of it off or half,

1:05:51yeah, maybe all just two halves. So maybe I'll just I'll, yeah, because I want to absolutely fill it with with vegetation and scrap on it. Because unfortunately, if you've got like seven little, little bases, it's much harder to really get it and that's how I normally do like three or four individual trees for my temperate forests as it were. But the jungle ones, yeah, I think it's going to be very different. So yeah, no, I think it's maybe a good way to do it. So I'm guessing Mark does the same thing because yeah, he goes get, I've got a 10-botton area within the 8-by-8 tree area on a lift-up base. It's almost unique. Yeah, so I'm assuming that's a single as well. Yeah, I don't want to spend, Phil, so yeah, two turns in an average tree's been removed anyway.

1:06:53I mean, yes, I mean, I have a dent, and the thing is with the more trees on a, you know, the only thing is with those bases is that you've got to have the base of what they'll be flat. And even then you take the trees out and the model still are like not sitting on it very nicely. Like for me, that's the attraction that I saw when I was running events with the footprints is that yeah, it does mean it is a bit annoying like with a field for example, the whole field, you've got to move the field away and put the field somewhere else when there's a troop in the field. But I don't think it breaks immersion too badly really because you just shift it out of the way slightly and then you can just push things across. So it makes it less annoying and you know where the terrain is. And you just put the train back once there's no longer troops on underneath the footprint. And I think it opens up your ability to model this stuff and make it look cool when there aren't troops on the field because the other thing I was considering doing was putting making the acrylic little stand like a little box that covers the terrain and then you put

1:07:57troops on top. But the problem with that is then you just go with things that partially on the terrain and it's just going to be problematic. So a footprint way to go. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, no teacher base plate, no holes, just have a mini-deramber of bases on free standing trees and on the growth and you can build the truck built terrain as much as what. Yeah, I think I think maybe just the whole thing. One big base. Yeah, big job. What are you feeling it with? Like at the jungle? Like is there a lot of 3-day printed stuff? Oh, it will be. I keep buying more steals. You keep buying all these jungle stuff. I found some horn builds. I'm so full. Another random jungle animals. And then yeah, just specifically jungle plants.

1:09:01So then I've got what are you going to hide it? It's jungle that's going to be people like, what the hell? I didn't notice that. It was in there. It was a horn build for start. Yeah. Yeah. And then also I'll be trying to do some other sort of Elizabeth Deany stuff, I think. I'm still trying to come up with little details, but yeah, it's the type of thing that it's probably going to take quite a long time. Unfortunately, that's the way it's going to bring out some, yeah, casser worries. Josh. What's happening with the cafe? Someone else is part of it. I love it. Now, I haven't gone back to the cafe stuff. I got so over it. I was so done by it that I haven't been able to go back to it. I'm also still annoyed by my main pagoda. I feel like I've printed this thing like 10% too large. Yeah. And even though half painted it, it's still irritating me. And I can't tear back and re-print it. So it's now just in the set of stages.

1:10:05It's like, instead of just just the thing that I now just can't address anymore. So yeah, that's why it's why. I haven't reason to make it in general. It's up because I've got all these friggin narrative tables for the African battle march that they call for it. So I need to make sure I have at least one jungle, a little one desert table, but there's going to be much easier because I've got a desert terrain. I'll be able to do a few hills. Maybe you're going to few hills done and they're going to be done. I don't have much respect for desert terrain. As you guys well know, but my long-standing resentment of desert basing. It's easy terrain. That's not so much. The thing is, and I think this is key for this type of when you are doing different terrain skates, is that it's not just the style and how it looks, but it's actually the type of terrain you make as well. So like I'm picturing for the desert terrain, I will have a number of hills on there and then yes, it builds into the impossible. I think with the jungle tables, I'm not sure I'm

1:11:07going to make any hills, but I'm going to make a crapload of forests. I think it's going to make you're going to have a big zigger. Yeah, but it doesn't have to, yeah, as an impossible piece, I will. But not necessarily as a hill. I think if you're, because what I want for jungle terrain is to feel like it's all very close in. You can't see very far. And you know, to really not know what's going on, I have poor visibility. And you get that by having forests everywhere. And you know, no, or maybe one hill at best kind of thing. So that's sort of what I'm picturing. And then that, you know, and then obviously you've got armies that have moved through cover and stuff and they would benefit massively from it as they should. They still can't see through it. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. That's my that's my rationale. And that's why that's that's Josh's talk about why it's building so many forests for for jungle terrain. Can I ask a question because you two both do quite a bit of resin printing. What is your go-to method for cutting resin cleanly? I suppose

1:12:17if you wanted to do, you know, just a bit of tinkering with your models. So conversions. Because I just found it's very either snaps or like if I cut it with a knife half the time, it will like snap off and end up stabbing myself. I just all like a funerary. I can't put it on a hard surface and try and cut it because something will snap. So I don't know. Right in my hand, then myself and then blood and I swear. Yeah. Yeah, but my advice is if you want to cut something you'd resin, you cut it in the slicer before you print it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't cut. No, it just shatters. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's not great. Yeah, that's the that's what happens. Yeah. So yeah, you bet. Yeah, it's one of ones is printed. Just it's very hard to cut it cleanly. But then you make sure you breathe in all the resin dust

1:13:21because it's highly toxic. So I'm not being trouble. Yeah, the rest of the dust is bad for your lungs seriously bad. Yeah. I've got a little yeah, got a little drama with that little rounds cut up. To Maddie saying, who's over vibration knife works. I thought he was going to tell me a joke now. Who's over vibration knife works for me. All right. So I need to look that up. Who's over vibration knife vibrating egg or something. Yeah. Yeah. But I might be my go to. That the orcs. No, what's that for? Yeah. Oh, I just need to do some trimming because stuff isn't fitting on bases with a lot of the, a lot of the charreds. They got like all these lads and things poking out. So I just, I like having a model if I can on its base without

1:14:30you know, things poking out of it too far. It just makes it a bit easier to move around the board sometimes. I don't mind the big centerpiece models like a dragon or something, you know, being a bit bigger. But other stuff I do try to keep it as close as I can. I was going to say, we're not going to do a shenan. Come on. Record a pass for the hour. Oh, I have some shutouts I reckon. I don't even have the Adrian thing up on this computer. I'll have to load it up. Yep. Well, I just got to finish it. They're begging for it. Right. They're like, we're the man to be acknowledged. They're ridiculous, stupid names. You can see if you get silly and by the way, if Matty's changed his name, it's that look here. It's actually log in. Sorry, it's on a different computer. It's very, like, chips.

1:15:32But this thing looks awesome. Pose. Ultrasonic cutter. There we go. Have 40,000 bits. Ultrasonic vibrations per second. Nice. Please. Well, it's 200 bucks or $20. I'll check that out. It's so awesome. All right. Cool. Well, if you guys can hear me, I'll give these awesome patients a share for the halftime. I don't know if this question's Josh, but we'll do that after this, I guess. We have. I'm sorry. Well, we guys think we've got lucky dice game club. Sounds like they're going to add the cards as well. Alex Jacob. I love it. Our rankings act in joy. Nick S. Jason's effort. Mark who it's Schabismas, West City. We got the mustard. What was that? We said, Boog 1 in there as well. Would you say that one or not?

1:16:34I've got a Boog 1 just after lucky dice column. Is that not on your list already fresh? We get a mock up active. Oh, oh. Huh? Yeah. Huh? Okay. On the web, is it? Yeah. Yeah. Boog 1. Anyway, I feel consider himself shattered out. Continue. Yeah. Tell me if you have body and hips is more. Nick S. Jason, that's all my work. Where did I get through? Western City Mall games. King Pass, not not Matt, just Taurus, Adam Lamm. What is different? Sneakers, chocolate, carrot, run away. A slennetchy cookbook. It's gone off the screen on my thing. That's, yeah. Yeah. Sneakers, chocolate, crud, and small. Is there anything else? A slennetchy cookbook? No, that's all I can say. That's good enough. That's good enough. I thought it was going to be a cookbook with the...

1:17:35Now I have to go back. Five votes, everyone. Three, seven. Paid a hole. Matt, hidden silver, ad, spratics, sanity, mark, Nick, a camwile, my soul, subscribe, the dentist, James, a Galilean, Fallon, Jamie McRod, Flatwell, Tej, Jelly, Tommy Doggs, Matthew, Claren, Perfidget, Taurus, Woodduck, and Nanowon, Daniel Broadstock, Robert Z, the bent, pickle house, OG color, almost handsome and fertile patient, Bobby Girk, and... ...and we... ...curse you, and then, Tom Boy. He's the boy. Lloyd, uh! Oh, my God. Don't be back in front of his OG. Uh, right back to the front. Love it. Do you have any questions? Yes, we do have any questions. And I have... I don't know why I said I like that. I just love it, be funny. Okay, all right, so... Okay, one question requires a prop. Can I share my screen in for this?

1:18:38Yeah, we can. Probably. All right. A prop. Good. Um, so this is Mark's question, and he says, one for Andrew, and the other Daly plays out there. Oh, and then... Uh, yes, does this... Yes, you're a pro. Which is Winrose, we'll support Team England for the Lord's Ambitious Appalachian, we'll have the Old World. Why England? Because they have an army of dwarves. And then, I think, what was the byline? Marty's a throng, Diggie-Diggie hole. Yeah. Winrose, uh, Walson. They're, uh, they're like a fantasy metal band, and they all dress up as dwarves, and that's, yeah, that's what he looks like, basically. And they're seeing a... What is that come from? Is that like someone's just sculpted or is that from... Yeah. Yeah, I just... That's the main... The main... That... Oh, there's your little microphone. I don't even know. Yeah. They're cool. And that's him behind. Yeah. And then, yeah, yeah. That's him behind. Yeah. Cool. It's more like Tolkien style, but no, it's... It's Warhammer Squad 2. And that's one of their songs.

1:19:40The Diggie-Diggie hole. The Diggie-Diggie hole. Wres... Do you listen to it? Why are you reading? Ah, I have... I have... I have to be familiar with this, and too. I have? Yeah, I have listened to them, too, yes. Yeah. It's not on my number one... Definitely the urban music. Yeah, yeah. It's not number one on my most played, but I... I do, Dabble. Right, sorry. Plasma... Oh, no. Plasma's got... Did I have a two question? That's okay. Oh, that's right. He had an early question. A goodness. He wrote, I've got another question, because I'm like, another question. All right, so this is a long one. So Buckle is. So early question. I recently had a game in my mate used a couple of desktars, so I did the same. Something I've never really tried. The game was dead easy, and quick to play this way. The tournament off too far off. I've never wanted to play in one, as my brain is usually cooked after a single 2,000 point game. But this idea of just having... If you... I'm going to bun you a desktop unit,

1:20:41seems very appealing, and a great way to have a simpler, faster game. Any thoughts on this method? At least in terms of fun and participation, no aspirations of actual competitiveness. What do you think I'm doing? I was going to say like... Running the army. Just running a big block of... A big cast warrior. I feel like that's probably the quintessential, isn't it? Just... Better or like to all. Like, you know, it's probably the game that pushed forward. Sit back and go, yeah, if you're not going to engage, or drink beer, you know, I don't know. Yeah. True. Yeah, I think there is... There is a little need to have that, depending on how much you want, how much brain-friar you want. You don't want to run a lot of... If you don't want to think about too much of maneuvering. And there's definitely... Yeah, definitely different... Armies playing to different... Play styles for a diplomatic... Frank's... Play them. But yeah, if you just want to push things forward,

1:21:41and you know, I think that's... And then, you know, it's not actually that... That unaccompetitive, either. I think some of those armies can be... Yeah, right. They're just one of the best players if they can work around you. That's all. Well, Nick was running, what, 28 long bits, and he did quite well. And castles up. So... Yeah, I mean, the death starts into the self-servant part, but yeah, I guess... Yeah, it is... It is an easy way to play. I'm not easy, but it's still... I used to go to play the game. Yeah. But... Yeah. Well, I think it's... I think it's fine. And then, a couple of pasts, this question. So, and one other thing, I've asked a few times in the past, and you guys have always been great. Please give a shout out to the Oz Tabletop gaming web... ...forms. Yeah, that's... ...like the Oz... It's like the Oz down. The Oz feel... OK, I knew. Yeah, but it's called Oz Tabletop Gaming.

1:22:42Yeah, it works. So, internet 1.0 style, like full-on forums. Love it. Awesome. And it'd be really great to get some more active members on there. Discord is fine for chats and all, but as nothing might be able to read back through someone's hobby thread, and see their projects evolve, or the monthly hobby thread where people post whatever it is that work on random. So, listen to this if you're like the old-style web forums, and do more gaming in Australia, like you see on the go join up. It's somewhat spiritual successor to the old, or gamer, or gamer EU forums. Just cool. And then, yeah, and then you... That's right, then you have another question. Which... Where could someone who has never run a community tournament before find resources to start how to do it? Well, Plasma, this is really... If you've gone from considering you're participating in a tournament to... Now we're going to run one. Suddenly he's got a run one. Where could someone who's never run a community tournament before find and also had to do it? For example, had to choose matchups, how to score, terrain layouts, comp rules, its prize systems,

1:23:42any cost of entry, etc. And then, I'm not going to have an our world rankings any. I shouldn't do that. Someone else... No, I'm just going to square-based. I have a lot of that stuff as well. Yeah. By general guide. I do a share of that. I do that. Maybe check back into your links. Yeah, because I mean... Yeah, I mean a lot of stuff you've actually automated, all right. But I mean, I guess it may be sourcing... How do you... Because there's obviously different ways to doing these things and even in all rankings, there's options. Like, this may be sourcing. How do you pick... Scoring system? I mean, essentially, it's all the personal taste of the tournament. Teor. Yeah. But I mean, you don't even know what you're taking. But that's... I think there is some definitely some needed there to have a bit more of that. I'd say there's probably some older stuff on like... Wall, like, a bow hammer and all that sort of stuff. We'd have things. It's probably more skewed to 40k.

1:24:44But... Yeah, well, yeah. As Angela Stark says, they started... I assume, started off by using the square-based packs. Which, yeah, that's probably is a good... way of starting off, you know, just doing that. And then seeing what you're like, we don't like. And then adjusting from there. I think that's... Yeah, you develop your taste by getting involved and trying and seeing what you're like, what you don't like. Yeah. But that'd be cool if you got some more guidance on all rankings. Cost of entry, that comes down to the venue and... You're pricing up, really? Yeah, that's the thing. And to your own stuff, like, searing or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then what you want to do for prizes and that type of thing, I think you've got to aim for at least, like, depending on how much the venue costs, at least, like, 50 to 100% more than what the venue costs to give you leeway to your other costs. This is probably what is probably my role with them. Yeah.

1:25:45It does blow out. Depending on how expensive it is. If it's quite cheap venue, like, it's like $5 per player or something, then that will be not valid. But if it's like $20 to $35 per player, then you need to make sure you're charging enough on top. Yeah. That's always... Yeah, and oh, I mean, it's different, I guess, if it's your first year than what it is, but I don't know. I feel like people are... They're starting to now charge a little more, which is good. But, yeah, I just think, you know, if people are going to be there all day, they're going to be there for two days. I don't think. I'd say even is that hard much to ask, you know? No, especially, like, we started this whole episode talking about the fact that it's really dad hammer, and the demographic is completely altered from a demographic of money, poor time, rich, teenagers in 20 years to, you know, it's inverted, you know, where we're no longer a financial limited,

1:26:47and it's usually time that limited, and the time's quite precious. And I would argue that, yeah, a lot of the players were able to pay for, you know, to spend their day playing Wohama in the right setting and a well run event and that type of thing. So, yeah, I feel like we should be charging appropriately for the TOS to really be putting an effort to run events and that type of thing. Yeah, definitely making the fun of it. And yeah, like, for a whole day of playing, you know, for doing that kind of stuff in a, you know, like, how, like, if you're, if you're thinking about going to an organised event for almost any other content, it's going to be 200 to 300 dollars for two hours or three hours. If you went to an all day content being out at like the vineyard, she's spending 300 dollars. Yeah, and then still got drinks and food on top. I don't know, I just, yeah, I still do see the odd event that pops up and it's like 35 dollars or something.

1:27:48And you're saying add some more, get yourself some better terrain or something. Like, you know, like, I'm not saying the TOS pocket it and make money. But certainly, I think people enjoy it when there's immersion and there's better stuff on the table or yeah, yeah, it's horrible to put that money back into the hobby that they're doing. I think they're going to put some whole community table. But being at first, it's going to be at first. I'd say start small, try and connect with somebody like if you've, people said here that have done, you know, one in the area, chat to them, chat to chat, like games, or see if you can borrow terrain like this. But yeah, if you can definitely connect with people locally that have done them in that area. Not saying that. Where do you want to help you? I hope you have. Yeah, I agree. I'm, or even trying to partner up with like, if you know, if you're a friend or someone or you can link up with who has run them before and doing it as a, as a, as a pair.

1:28:49Just like how gummo we did it with Paddy for CoutK on that year. I think that that was actually a really good learning experience for me. There's nothing we would have attempted if I was by myself. Yeah. But that helped me learn a bit more about how to run events and then I was able to really build on that, you know, running slow grows and other events and stuff. It's just, yeah, you just sort of just learn from other people. Yeah, now it's definitely with us. And I think that's a good tip. Like at least have to be a fun someone who can help. It's event management, man. It's not like it's, yeah, it's actually, there's certain skills in that, in that sort of whole field that, you know, it's not intuitive. Just dealing with the event you, is it can be annoying enough? Yeah. All right. I don't know if that really answered the question. Hopefully, dude. Good luck with your tournament. If you do run one, we'll certainly announce it on here.

1:29:51I don't even know where you're. Well, isn't the UK? He's no, no, he's a world he was just spruing. This is right. tabletop gaming went for him. So for me, that's got to be a shrapnel. All right. Oh, no, yeah. First of all, yeah, sorry. I'm getting confused with, who's the UK? It's the same haves. We haven't seen it for a while. I forget. Yeah, I kind of run about. Other than a perfidy? Like, yeah, definitely. Okay, last question. Oh, god, I don't know how to feed like goodness. From Angela's from John, uh, question. Have you tried? Have you tried the new Magic Rules in a game yet? And if you're not, why are you so scared if your wizard being killed casting a minus bell so much?

1:30:51We'll play it when we play it. I'm not playing a game with it yet because I haven't played a game since that came yet. I mean, I played castles, but we weren't using it. Yeah, yeah. It's definitely. It's on the to-do list for sure. I've got my cards there. I'm ready to go. I'm happy. I'm excited to play. I'm excited to play. Would you be funny? I reckon so. One of the events I want to do with that is go, you have to use those rules, but you also have to take four wizards. Go to that. Like, everything has to be, I mean, doors get screwed for that. But yeah, all right, would be funny. I mean, so did he hear from the chat what? Because I think that when I said you got to play through it, played through your battlemarch, is how battlemarch plays with the channeling? And like, you know, is it, is it too much? Does it feel okay? Is it necessary? Does it even be even need to do it? Because I'm not sure it's really, like, you've only got one or two wizards anyway. Like, do you really need, do you really need?

1:31:52I go, I think the channel is really fun to be exciting with the full size of like 2k games when you've got multiple wizards. Huh? Would the channeling work not too bad because it just adds a little bit more warmth when you don't have it? Well, I'm a little bit, I'm a little bit hesitant that if you're running channeling, that suddenly you kind of need some magic defense. Yeah, okay. And you don't have to, then you're wasting time on that. But in battlemarch, suddenly everyone sort of has to take a wizard, which is not, I don't think you want. I think you want the opportunity to either have magic or not, again, you're engaging that or not, you don't need to, which is not possible back when magic was like plus one plus two plus three plus four to cast. We're going to go nerfed back down again, suddenly in battle, you know, in small-sized games, totally feasible to just run no magic. And I'll be worried that if someone takes a high level wizard, like, he can't handle it.

1:32:52Oh, it's pretty hard to squeeze in level four, he can take a level three for pretty straight taking a least level three. You're getting a lot of channeling dice from a level three, because I think is it 2D3? Is it a level three? I think. And then you think about that and then you go, battlemarch is only going for five turns and running. If they roll hard, they're actually getting quite a lot of channeling dice. And then maybe not much defense. I don't know. Yeah. I'm talking about myself out of it. But having said that, you do like, if you run a big event, would you be using that stuff? Yeah, I'm only talking about the bonus about all matchments. No, that's right. Yeah, I think that's the thing. And it wasn't a different book, so I guess. So I just want to go back to Lee Roy said, how do you do with a guy who's previously a dickhead? I was talking about you. I told him no last time, I want to give him one more chance. Yeah, it's tricky, yeah, he liked it.

1:33:56Are you just going to be real clear with your expectations and just have the hard conversation to say, like, mate, we're happy if you'd have come. But look, you were, you know, like for me, like blatant cheating, like a full on no go. Like, this is a game people. Even if you win this tournament, you really get nothing out of it. So what are you doing? I'm a bit bad at this. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a bit of a competitive streak. So yeah, if you want to let him come, he can come, but he's going to clear that he really, he's on his last sort of opportunity to do. So you need to fix it up, pin needs to really. I wonder if that's the way, I mean, not, I'm not saying that you do. You know, I wonder if there's an issue with people like that? There you go. Yeah, you can come, but you just never get any points, so you're just not going to win. I'm just saying, we're happy if you're going to play, but I'm just saying we've taken away

1:34:57any need to check because you just can't score points. You can't win. Yeah. I mean, I would know about it. You also don't want to. Yeah. I think I had a bit of an issue coming from ninth age over to sixth because. You can. I'm not sure. And John's got a good tip here about this. He said, we've had those shats. It's the worst part. I'd par with off to Mike. Even better. I've been involved in two years. Yeah, that's it. But I found ninth age was I pretty cutthroat. And I think you get absorbed in that and you start thinking that's the norm. I've been super competitive. So I think when I went back over to sixth, I was probably being too competitive at the start. And then I think a couple of games with people, I was probably being a bit of a dick as

1:35:57well with that whole don't be a dick. And then. I'm going to be lost. Perhaps maybe you were. I think I want to be a bit. Yeah, I was a massive cop. No, it's always been. It's just been a bit too competitive. You argue and over just little shit and sometimes you're like, oh, you didn't call that. I know some people still do it, but sometimes it's just you do want to have a bit of fun. You don't want your opponent to have a shit to I'm just because you're being too competitive. Just because they missed their command phase. And you're like, no, sorry, you started moving. You can't have your command phase. Well, I've sort of done stuff like, you know, people miss stuff in a turn and you just sort of like, you know, I have pool people up on stuff like that. Like you go and pass it and you end up having like a bit of a discussion. But it's sort of one of those things. If you're in a culture, that was a culture for not the age.

1:36:59So for me, you get going into that and then you think that's normal. And because you played like that, you think everybody else plays like that. But then if you go into a more friendly scene, it does take time to, you know, just chill out a little bit. Yeah, to read just the culture for sure. I kind of imagine you being like hard on us about all the like kind of orders. And I was like, you know, I'm not going to say it's the end with Ken. Yeah, but it was just a chase. Everybody was just like, still. Yeah, I guess you were just, you know, that was a culture. So that's what you were doing. But I just, yeah, I just kind of mentioned. See Matt, Matt's still the rest. Yeah. So it's not like that anymore, which is good tonight. But yeah. I think that was.

1:38:00It was just like an old school night thing when it was first driven off sort of that 80s. Yeah. The lyricist said that guy they had to band did come from night. That's a good point. That's a good point. Yeah. There we go. You know, it's not a major when you look over the table. It's all flat. There you go. Or all the dickheads like me whenever they're all well. The, um, I mean, that wasn't a big crab, but the ninth that was at Castle, they seemed to be all. It was far so I'm the one to talk to because they love a bunch of those. Do I play all the time? They were actually. Sorry guys. You guys. Yeah. The second hand it was. Cool. Yeah. Cool. Cool. Yeah. That was the, yeah, the dudes that were there.

1:39:03The castle were really good. I think they're just, you know, Chris and he go. Yeah. Yeah. No, they're real chill. Um, and Matt's obviously not not Matt is. I think he plays both currently. Um, yeah. It's really. Yeah. He's just saying come on. When was the last time you saw night? So I saw it at Castle. So now in their defense, yeah, I think what I saw was them setting up the, the base of the terrain like this. They, they used the near print. Base, you know, the terrain layouts and then yes, I did notice later there was scenery on top. So I think I might have got, oh, it's all flat. Oh, yeah. It was probably that active misinformation about my page. They're all. They're all hardcore competitive and they all play with two each around. Yeah. Yeah. Well, my understanding because I was, I was playing, um, sorry, I was playing. I was talking to the guys at Castle and it seems like they're not as EGC focused as

1:40:07sort of what they used to be. I think I'm just. I think they just. I don't. I used it anymore. So what are they being, yeah, there's no point being competitive when the game's dying, right? It's got Facebook followers. Now they had, um, looking out of all the games. Well, out of all the systems there, they were there. So I'll give it to them. I didn't see more. I know, like things of war. I mean, interesting game. More fun. I'm not playing all there in the end because Alex couldn't run it because I think he was away. Yeah. Yeah. So just never just never got up at all. Yeah. Not saying more like more than once. Awesome. I think I've played it. It looks awesome because the time will game. What's going on? You're on a podcast. No, we're on an old world podcast. That's what I'm playing. Well, yeah, you should play.

1:41:08You should play some wall world. It's about a bunch. Uh, play all well. Yeah. Never really played anything but the one main game. It's been it's hard for me to move out of that. Now I will play better match. It's not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll play Battle March before next week. Please. No, because I won't be. I'm going to do Monday. So I have a surgery. Oh, yeah. OK. I got to finish my living room. It's just adulting at the moment. You know, two years ago, me and Andrew weren't doing anything. I wasn't working and was fun. And suddenly back to adulting. He's building a house while extending. Yeah. This is the never ending bill. You wait till tomorrow, retirement. You know, this retirement, Billy John prepping for I'm building in 20 years. You know, it's going to be battle. Yeah. I think it's just the kids too. Well, I've got, you know, seven, nine, 11, 12 kids.

1:42:08It is. Yeah. It's terrible. Terrible time. Yeah. Well, that having said that, I'm still freaking like, yeah, you're still doing stuff for their cars. I had them wash three cars on Father's Day because potentially selling my wife's car and my daughter's car to see which one sells. And it's my wife's one. Yes, my daughter's car sells maybe my daughter or buy my wife's car. Like it's just constant. Doesn't matter what age they are, they always need stuff. Which is good. Yeah. It's just. So what you're saying is you guys are time poor dads who battle march would be the ideal. I think it would be really. So 15 to be three. OK. I don't know. Gamma just needs to be. I'm not the first one to go. The only one I'm going to play battle march is if all the tax there is I'm going to do that first. And then yeah. Let's get it. Oh, yeah. You have to be out of danger and go move on the same 40 minutes stretch of time to play again. Yeah. Yeah.

1:43:08It's quite hard. I mean, it's incredible that we can still have this podcast every like. It's quite amazing really. I must admit last week when you played the three-year thing, I didn't even see it because I was having those 10-tingal difficulties, which meant I actually missed out on the three-year anniversary graphic. Yeah. Because I know. So I'm sure. Oh, that's OK. So I'm really happy. Last night, another year. Yeah. That's it. We could be doing any more giveaways. Remember we did that last year? Oh. Was that for this one? If it was, we should. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're a battle march box. It just got a little way. Give away a battle march game versus Andrew or go man. I don't think we can go into anything in this world. So Josh, you could probably answer this.

1:44:09Which will be done quick. A 40-odd model for battle march or eight models for Mordheim. Oh. Oh, I said a hard question. 40-odd models. Probably Mordheim still. Mordheim can play pretty quickly. So I'm actually going to wear a game or go for just like 10 minutes. But if it plays like the thing is, even though it's eight individual dudes, it's still there. It's still having to make decisions about where each of those dudes are going. Whereas 40-odd models, that could be like two, three units. You know what? I read that. It's going to say Mordheim. I think Mordheim will still play quicker. That's a better match. I read that as how long does it take to model? Eight, 40 versus an eight man squad. I was actually stuck on, does it mean like painting or playing? That's what I got confused.

1:45:10I was over at painting. That's so funny. He wasn't. I bet. Oh, no, I confused now, too, because you're right. That is totally... No, who was just saying? It's fine. Wouldn't he? That's the whole thing. Why does he phrase it in models? I hear such a weird... Oh, maybe it is then. I don't know. What's that? Oh, do you want to tell him? Yeah. No, I don't know. Hmm. Hmm. Lots of... OK. Oh, now can I bring up... So I've got some... Not hobby. Well, I do have hobby. That's not my hobby. So, because you know how last week I was talking about doing the battlematch,

1:46:11the events rather than trying to use tape, trying to put down like a... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I call a thing, yes. So, one of the... So Steve, one of the guys was running the other battlematch of any Melbourne, and was listening to Paul Gas. He was like, oh, Josh, I'm going to take your idea around with it. There were no bunnies. He got some down. There were a lot of things that he... Has any found... Yeah, the plastic pipe movers. Yeah. Which are like maybe the 10 mil... Maybe eight mils or one. I'm not sure exactly what size he used, but yeah, then he got some down. And then I think he'd up using himself adhesive like fabric to go in because he was feeling with magnets, so I think the magnets really work. I think he's trying to keep them on. So he just used some fabric to make it a little bit thicker and softer, so we just sort of slides in. And then he came up with, yeah, the 4x3 battlematch, uh, size similar to that. Which I think is quite cool. I'm still tempted to...

1:47:12Like he's like, Josh, when I pull this together, you can totally use him for a bit as well. I'll make it great. I probably will. Um, I must admit, I am still tempted by your suggestion, Gomo, about making a coaster. Hard to... Let's go say where's the cake. What up? Yeah, he's there. Yeah, he's there. He's that might also make it a bit more substantial and this likely to be shifted. So we have to sort of play tested a bit and see how it feels in practice. But then he kept going with it. And this is what's got me a bit more excited. I don't know if you guys are sorry. Before you move on, I'm just... Yes. Oh, God. I've learned it's like that, but yeah, there's a storm back. What was he soaring? But yeah, he was cutting... I'm not sure, maybe he was cutting the dowel, so size... Yeah, I don't know why the saw is inside. Yeah. So what else do you have everywhere? Um... So yeah, then he was turning this into... Oh, it's the screen. This is such... This screen isn't what we would use. But he was like, just suddenly I'm thinking I can make a hidden deployment screen

1:48:15in like as part of it. And then if you can just have them all like this, suddenly you can actually just run... run event like games as hidden deployment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'd have a better sheet than this obviously. This is the play-solid one. But... This is... This is prototype. So... That's it. Yeah, yeah, it's prototype, man. And because I must admit, hidden deployment... That's probably been, you know, like in terms of deployment styles, I've... It's been my holy grail. I've always liked the idea of hidden deployment. Yeah. It's super old school, but it's how it's like the alternating deployment is always trying to replicate it by adding some mystery about what you don't know what you're trying to do. So then you've got to take turns putting it down. Hidden deployment is really what it should be. Yeah. What it should be. You don't know where stuff is going. And then you just, by a simple time, it's reveal and you go,

1:49:16oh, and then you have to react to that. And, you know, like if you can do it in an event like why I think where each table has an apparatus, so you can do hidden deployment. Suddenly I'm like, why wouldn't you just do hidden deployment for every game? I think you're going to be sick. I think you're going to be sick. Actually, if you can put this thing down, it's probably quite so much quicker because people just go, you just whack your arm and then you go right. Yeah. Well, actually, it was save time. Yeah, because something is racking your arm and down, deployed, bang. And that's also what attracts me to it. Yeah. I've always liked... I even like in those times where I was running like the ambush type scenarios. And a few other random ones in the old Six Air campaign where one army would deploy the whole army first and then the other army would whack their army down because they would have a disadvantage or an advantage, whatever. Yeah, it was quite free. It was quite liberating and just save all of time. Yeah. And now one last little one, this is probably unrelated.

1:50:18Who's going to think you this? Who's this one, people from your club? This is... Well, he was at my events, but he's actually running the battle march event. The other one is coming up. That's like a... Oh, Steve. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome. Because he was like, oh, look, actually running a lot of events. Let's run some as well. And I was appreciated that. Now this is the other thing. This photo is not very zoomed in. I'm topologised for that. But I printed that extension of the top from Makerworld. So, yeah, as Andrew was talking about with Makerworld. Yeah, the whole white thing at the top there. Yeah. The entire thing is three of printed. Because I found an NEDB extension. So I needed one of these printed. I think I needed five printed. Does an extension box at the top? Like, that was just on Bamboo Labs. And I'm like, that's perfect.

1:51:19I die, I want that. So, yeah, like... Because it always annoyed me that my NEDB didn't have an extension in the same way that Billy does next to it. Yeah, so, Gomo, you need to read it for me. A plastic one. Because you can do ridiculous stuff like print. You're talking about different languages here. Oh, I'm trying to work out. It's a what? Wait, wait, so... I don't know what he was talking about either. How do I point at this? You can say that. Yeah, the thing on top. You said the thing on the... The NEDB extension. It's a... Well, so NEDB is the name of the DVD holes of it, Hikey herself. GNVDBY or something. NEDB. Anyway, it's the extension. It's the top. Yeah. Yeah. Let me just not very come again. Yeah. I was cool that I could just print one off. And that's... You're going to have the A1. Now, what is it? The Bamboo. What? B1S. B1S.

1:52:20Yeah, B1S. Did they do a farce thing? I saw Ella Goody at a father's day, like weekend. Did they do any submissions? I'll black Friday. It's going to be absolutely whatever it's going. I might wait for that. Yeah. So they do. Yeah. One thing is, I'm barely getting through any normal models, a little alone. An Andrew's already printed his shit on a scenery for me. I don't have any got through. That's like... That's like printing random shit like that, Josh. Yeah. Yeah, the random household objects. Yeah. I don't know. I was just worked out, you know, a lot. Well, it's on me by PLA and stuff. There's a lot of people printing stuff out and what. I don't know. To me, a voice thought. I'll just go buy it because it's probably going to be 30 times cheaper. It's going to last weeks longer. Yeah, usually that what I bought you can't buy though. That's the thing.

1:53:20It's like it's not... I can't make an extension for that piece of furniture. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's the beauty of it. Is that you can print stuff that you otherwise can't do. Honestly, I'm going to make it from scratch with wood, I guess. But there's a novelty. That's fine. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. No, no, no, that was... And yeah, daughter and wife have you washing their car for Father's Day? Sell them both and buy yourself a 3D printer. I do wonder if I misheard that. Yeah, you were washing three cars. Yeah. Yeah. That's what you do. Yeah. Awesome. It's tragic. Cool. But also got left. You know, I bought two cars. You know how I bought an EV Josh. Yes. And you drove it up to Gold Coast as well.

1:54:21I bought it to be out running on a charge. Very well done. Sorry. Well, that was good. Yeah. But yeah, now I bought my wife one as well. So that's why we said. What? So they have a dual EV house. Yeah. What? Zero to one. Zero to four. It's a head squad trying to get rid of it. It's just been car hell at the moment. I'm not even a car person. Yeah. You're on air. Yeah, I am now. I'm just trying to get rid of shit. So. Yeah. It's a good. It's all tax related. Spending money to save money. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty done. Oh, it's two hours. Wow. Yeah. It didn't even all I got it silver done on these guys.

1:55:23I didn't even get to that. I did end up throwing that little shitty scenery on these guys. On the rebase. So we'll see how they go when I do them. Nice. I'm trying to do really cheap rebasing. There's incinerated cheap rebasing. So. Nothing fancy. But, you know. Oh, you're going into the rebase. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to get back to the base. I'm trying to do really cheap rebasing. There's incinerated cheap rebasing. So. Nothing fancy. No. Oh, you're going into the rebase. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to get what's going on AC standards and then just. I'll share it with you. Yeah. No, I can't stand it. Covering WTC. Are we covered WTC? I don't know what it is, man. I shouldn't know. Yeah. We should. We should. It's pretty serious. It's backed out on all that way.

1:56:23That's why they weren't cast. Yeah. Yeah. I'm over all that competitive stuff. I just want to cover battle march. Just battle march. I don't even want to cover the masters. This battle march. The masters should totally have a battle march round, by the way. Well, yeah, that's. Yeah, definitely. So that's. I reckon that up. That's the way to go. And obviously I'll wear ranked. It's going to have leagues and seasons. So you have multiple ones. So that'd be cool. Because I didn't have to. Yeah. Totally. Having my best battle march people and stuff. That'd be cool. Yeah. Well, I have a look at the list. If there's anything interesting. And then if there's a few things. Interesting. We won't let it go through them. I'll show you. Yeah, yeah, we should. Yeah. Yeah. Just see. Does a chance of might come down for masters for. Australia masters like into Melbourne, actually. Yeah. Josh said. Oh, really? I don't know. I think it might try. I didn't go last. Maybe I'll try. Just for that we can kind of think. So we're thinking. Yeah. Yeah, just to say I'll cover a bit of something.

1:57:24I don't know. I'll say. Don't. That'd be cool. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I think I'll be back. I'll be back. I'll be back. I'll be back. I'll be back. I'll be back. I'll be back. I'll be back. I'll be back. I'll be back. I'll be back. I'll be back. I'm not sure I'll yeah I will probably know might better get a gaming yeah to be sick shall we wrap it up yeah probably yes okay well yeah sorry I'm in the middle of doing some random stuff here well I don't know if I pulled people on audio they're probably like these guys were just randomly cracking on a best if they couldn't see anything that's been the hobby week for us guys we're not doing some hobbies there sometimes we have a we phone it in yeah we're here Monday though next week hopefully so the Monday is a Monday okay

1:58:30yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah everyone else goes so Monday Monday yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm gonna call it quits for one that's 61 so I guess we'll see you next week if you're still listening there with lots of stuff for us in comments they have crazy and silly the episodes and and why you're only playing battlematch from now on I really liked it until next week everyone I guess we'll see you next week Cheesecass