Offense or defense? Breaking down the Browns’ No. 6 pick

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1:10Hey everybody welcome to the Orange Brown Talk podcast. Dan Lobby with Mary Kay Cabeta. Hey Mary Kay edition of the podcast getting back on our usual schedule here on a Monday a week after free agency. We have met virtually met the new offensive lineman. We've met Quincy Williams. We are starting to get into that second stage of free agency here and really gearing up for the NFL draft. So hey Mary Kay edition of the pod questions from our football insider subscribers. And we are going to start with a draft question. This comes from DJ in Colorado Springs. Hey Mary Kay knowing how deficient the offense was last year and the need for talent on that side of the ball. What are the chances Andrew Berry goes defense with number six? You know historically he doesn't like to be limited with his draft decisions and I feel like on top of Will's Browns pick a quarterback Mary Kay I feel like this is the question we're going to get a lot. Would the Browns actually go defense at number six? I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. It's probably unlikely at this point but really not out of the realm of possibility because

2:15if Caleb Downs or Arvel Reese are there. I mean you just never know what he might decide to do there. I mean I would think that they would be more apt to go with a Monroe Freeling or even a Carnell Tate there over a defensive guy but you can never say never with Andrew Berry because they go into the draft not needing anything. They look at it as though they're an expansion team and they've got to start from scratch. So it would not be shocking or preposterous for him to go defense if the most highly rated player is a defensive guy. So I wouldn't put anything past him. He's sometimes zigs when he we think he's going to zag and you just never really know although like I said I do think it'll be offense and I do think there's a chance he will try to trade down. Yeah I do I do feel like trading down as a more likely scenario than maybe taking a defensive player at six but I do keep wondering like what's going to happen if Caleb Downs is there. What if they do

3:21fall in love with Arvel Reese or you know somebody at a premium position on defense could they just decide like let's go that route and let's make up the side of the ball that's already great. Let's make it even greater and maybe there is a tackle they like it maybe they feel like Monroe Freeling or someone else is going to slide down to where they can pick them around 24 or maybe they want to go receiver at 20 I don't know there's so many ways he could go but I think the biggest point here is Andrew Berry can be a little bit unpredictable when it comes to things like this but that I'm also reminded of 2020 when it just felt like all along yep they're taking a left tackle they're taking somebody to be their left tackle for the next 10 years obviously that part of it didn't work out but then sitting there number 10 they take a tackle so I don't know if this is one of those years where Andrew's going to be super predictable and it's right there in front of our faces or if he's got something up his sleeve that we aren't ready for. Well of course we're going to overthink it right they need a tackle they have all kinds of really really good tackles

4:22in this draft and it really does seem like that is going to be the way to go but once again if you do have almost not I don't think there's necessarily a generational receiver in this draft but if you have a really good game-changing receiver that can change the fortunes of your franchise in a hurry then I would do that I believe that receiver is a premium position and I would take one at number six or if you trade down a little bit so we'll see but right now if I had to make a pick for the Cleveland Browns and if they were staying at number six I would go for you. So you know as we're kind of going through this right we've talked so much about like the young players and sort of where all these guys that are already on the roster fit. We've talked about said Tillman and and guys like that and as we look at the shape of this offensive line I do wonder and I know I'm not saying this is like I would expect him to be the weak one starter at left tackle.

5:22Where do you think Dewan Jones fits kind of in this offensive line remake because obviously he's a young guy who that rookie year seemed like maybe the Browns had found something playing right tackle in place of Jack Conglon and then the last two years it just really hasn't gone well injury performance moving him to the left side it just hasn't worked out. Do you think Dewan Jones still kind of fits in the plants like I said probably not as your weak one left tackle who knows though do you think he's still sort of a guy they're interested in? I think so I really do think so but when you have trouble staying healthy and it's not anybody's fault I mean my goodness when you're getting hit low and you're breaking phones and things like that these things are not your fault obviously but sometimes you just need to go in another direction now I don't know if they will do that or not but the thing to remember about Dewan is they were trying to start to transition him back to right tackle and now that spot is filled with Titus Howard so the opening for Dewan

6:28is at left tackle and he doesn't feel overly comfortable there and he hasn't played a lot of football in the last couple of years at all so I think you have to move forward and if you can get something out of him even a full season at some spot then I think that's going to be a tremendous bonus for you or maybe he competes with the guy that you bring in and he blows it out of the water but I think you have to head in to the 2026 season with another starting option at left tackle in the event that he's either not 100% ready or it just doesn't work out for you the way that you hope that it will it's too important of a position especially in today's game there's too many good ed rosters I mean you've got Trey Hendrickson coming you know from Baltimore now you still have TJ White so and there will be plenty others along the way even just this season so I think that you really have to make sure that you have your ducks in a row on that side of the line. Yeah and then

7:30maybe it would just be best for Dewan if he kind of comes in and he gets to be that swing tackle this year and then be the guy that if somebody gets hurt you know you can play the right side you can play the left side you're going to be depth that's still a valuable piece to have obviously he wants to be a starter I'm sure but like having a guy that can play on both sides and has played on both sides matters and I think to your point even though they haven't been you know like recurring injuries like oh you know it's the same need that gets hurt over and over again or it's a hamster you know I can't stay out stay out of the way a soft tissue injuries they have been freakish traumatic injuries the fact of the matter is is he has been he has been getting hurt and I think with a lot of these guys you know I know well Jenkins is coming off the season ending injury but for the most part these guys that they brought in have all played and played a lot and I think after the last few years this team just needs stability as much as anything obviously they've got to be able to play and play well but this team just needs five guys that can stay on the field together for

8:30more than a few weeks at a time right they always say of course the best ability is availability and you hate to talk about it in terms of a guy getting injured or being injury prone or whatever because it isn't fair when somebody takes kind of a low what Kevin Stephansky thought was illegal hit on on Dewan Jones and you know you hate to put a guy in that bucket of injury prone it's not really fair and I don't think he deserves that moniker at all but it's a business and you still do have to plan for what you need to do and I don't care whether it's Sean Watson, Shador Sanders or whoever else they bring in you have to have a good solid plan at left tackle it's vitally important I still think it's the most important position on the offensive line now I know that right tackle has come up the curve on that a little bit but I still think it's left tackle I still think that's where you're going to get most of your pressure coming from

9:33and or at least the majority of it and and so I just I think you have to move forward and then hope that you can still get something out of Dewan in some way and then kind of elsewhere on that line is you know again because we talked to these guys recently this is just sort of all fresh in my mind you know with Elton Jenkins as we kind of await this Joel Betonio decision and we've seen Tevin Jenkins' contract that's more of a that doesn't mean he wouldn't he can't be a starter but that's more of a backup contract in a perfect world. Should we write Elton Jenkins in as the center in Penn or is there a chance that if Joel Betonio doesn't come back I mean this is a guy that has made the Pro Bowl at Guard that maybe they could look at Elton Jenkins as one of their starting guards and maybe center is still maybe Luke Whiplier's in play maybe there's a draft pick maybe Ethan Posick has a miraculous recovery and and they bring him back and he's a free age right now but who knows like is is is that still a little bit

10:35unsettled. I think so I think it is because like you said Elton Jenkins has played his best wall at Guard and he's only started nine consecutive games at center and those were all last year before he got injured so I do think that he's probably in the mix for one of the guard spots depending on what happens so they've got some versatility they've got some pieces in parts they can move around and we have heard them talk about Luke Whiplier at center so maybe he's still in the mix maybe you draft a center maybe you know maybe Ethan Posick does come back and he's ready to go in September you know October November or something like that so yeah I think that they have some options with what they can do with some of these guys and I don't think anything is written in stone yet although when we did talk to Titus Howard today he basically said I am the right tackle that's what I do best that's what what they want me doing. Yeah that that's one I think we

11:39can certainly write in I think we thought that but then he sent pretty much I mean not pretty much he did confirm that today I'm saying that he was going to be the right tackle so we at least have that one but everything else will still figure out and we even got a question about our buddy Katie Leviston who I know Lance has been pushing as a possible guard and Ty and Monterey all wants to know if he could potentially be a guard I think anything's on the table for any of these guys we've gotten a lot of Zach's Inter questions Mary Kay like two people asked about Zach's Inter I don't know if he's fighting for the Ross fighting to be on the roster this year if he's safe and could just be fighting to be a backup I don't know but there's a lot of options behind these guys too and I do kind of wonder where a guy like Zach's Inter falls into all of this is he's still in the mix to maybe be your you know one of your extra interior guys. Well Andrew Berry has spoken recently at the combine you know about it's time to let some of the younger guys get their shot

12:40and I'm guessing that Zach's Inter falls in that bucket and I'm anxious to ask Andrew about that when we meet up with those guys at the NFL annual meeting now that will be coming up March 28th through the 31st out in Arizona we go out there we talk to Andrew Berry out there we talk to the hazelums and then we have a breakfast with all the coaches so we'll sit down for about a half an hour with Todd Munk in there so looking forward to getting some answers on some of these things we'll know a little bit more than about maybe who might fit where and then also by then we'll have a little bit better of an idea of what they might be thinking in the draft or not thinking in the draft although gamesmanship will be played I mean it will be time to you know throw some people off or send up some flares and and try to make sure that if you want somebody to come up for the number six overall pick that you're putting out some information that

13:43helps you do that so we'll see how that all is going to go but I'm very curious to hear what they have to say about Zach's enter because he really has been the forgotten man and he was to be the heir apparent to Joel Patonio or Wyatt Teller and we have to see if that's still in the cards. I'm thinking a lot about the owner's meetings and kind of getting to hear what all those guys say and because you know because Kevin was just so unflappable over and over like you just couldn't get him to crack or say anything but I don't know I'm curious to see what Todd is like sitting there at that table for however long holding court and then I'm really interested to hear what the Haslums say about the planet quarterback because like weirdly Jimmy Haslum has been maybe the most open and honest person in that front office whenever he's talked he's laid out pretty much you know he called the Sean Watson a swing in a mislast year he's kind of laid out this plan that they have to rebuild this roster and you know Andrew is sort of grudgingly started using

14:47some of that terminology here over the last few months but I just think it's really interesting. I'm very interested to see specifically what Todd Munkin and also what the Haslums say about the quarterback position and if maybe you come back from Arizona in a couple weeks with like okay yeah this is this is it we know pretty much where this thing is maybe we already do we've talked about it a lot but like we'll we'll just confirm some of the things we think we already know it will be very interesting to hear what they have to say it is so hard to believe that one year one year after a big swing in a miss does Sean is firmly in the mix to start for the Cleveland Browns on opening day he will compete for that job and I've talked to people that think he's the front runner and I've talked to other people that believe that Shadour is the front runner so it's very very hard to say and I actually think it's early to handicap it because I think

15:52that Todd Munkin has to get out there with these guys and actually see it and get a feel for it and see how they're picking up his new scheme and flourishing in his new scheme and the interesting thing about installing a new scheme is the fact that you really would tweak it if it's Dishon or if it's Shadour you can if should if Dishon I started saying this at the combine and apparently it is just caught on everywhere where we're just combining Dishon and Shadour's names I'm oh my goodness I'm just gonna just sure that is so fun um I think I think at the combine it might even been on a pot I might have said Sean I don't remember I said something like that oh we're we're in for trouble trying to keep this all straight but if you think Dishon is going

16:55to be your guy and he has his mobility back then you're going to do different things with him then you would do with Shadour because he is a genuine dual threat quarterback he's a running quarterback we've seen it we know what it is right we don't have to guess and it falls more in line with I mean not completely of course but he's probably a little closer to Lamar than he is to Shadour so very interesting to see how they manage all of that because if you have a vision if you have a vision for your offense and how it's going to work you're gonna almost have to have two of those with the way this is gonna go yeah and and I think too like obviously look this is what we this is what we have to talk about right now and we're spending a ton of time on it it's getting talked about on sports radio it's

17:56getting written about in a million places and certainly Todd and his staff are sitting there watching tape on these guys and and making some preliminary they have some preliminary thoughts I'm sure but like it is worth noting it's March 16th and this offseason program doesn't even start until with the with the Monday or Tuesday after Easter you know it's a few weeks away he can't even like coach these guys yet he's not even like he can't sit in a room with Shadour Sanders and Bashan Watson and go over film and like you know talk to them about the playbook and talk to them about the scheme so he hasn't even sat in meetings with these guys yet because he's just not allowed to and so that that's the other point here is like on top of just sitting here and watching what these guys have done and watching the film and figuring out how they fit and what he wants to do this competition is going to be fought out in the meeting rooms and then you know who picks up on things more quickly who you know again who fits best on what they do but I just don't know if they can have answers to that yet because they just haven't even

18:58been able to sit down and work with these guys yet no so they can't have answers to these things yet but I think that they should probably be able to get a sense of where they want to go with this in May in May when they get them out on the grass in OTAs I think it will start to become kind of clear now that doesn't mean it's not going to stretch into training camp because it probably well but I think they're going to have a sense of okay this is the direction that we might head and at this moment in time I don't know what the lean is I really don't like I said sometimes I talk to people and they're like oh no Dishon's got the edge here and then other people are like oh no no Shador has he has so I don't I don't think Todd knows yet I mean how could he know right now I mean he has to see who is going to flourish and excel in this scheme with what he wants to do

20:07with this personnel and you got to see it you've got to start to see it out on the grass before you can make that determination yeah and I think to like I do think to your point like they'd probably do and Todd kind of indicated this they probably would like to have an answer as early in training camp as possible but I also think they they probably want to try to have a fairly clear pecking order by the time they do get on the grass in May and I know they get an extra mini camp this year too of a veteran mini camp that's not mandatory I think that's usually the week of the draft but like by the time they get on the field for OTAs and the mandatory mini camp we've seen it both ways we you know we've been there when we've been there when they've had a starting quarterback whether it was Baker or Tashon when they've gone into it with like here's your QB1 and it just you you can tell the difference now it hasn't always worked obviously but you can just it's more organized and it's just everything is focused on that guy and then we've seen it we've seen normal quarterback competitions where it's two guys and then we saw last year when

21:08it was four guys and you just realized I think especially last year standing there watching it it really hit me at least like it's how are they getting these guys enough work if you're really trying to have a four-man quarterback competition and I just think Todd it I came away from the combine feeling like Todd just doesn't want to deal with that all the way into the middle of August like this thing is gonna get hammered out a lot in the spring and like you said maybe a little bit into training camp but I bet they have an answer pretty quickly when training camp after training camp starts well they need to from the standpoint of just working it over and over and over with the people that are going to be actually starting football games for you you need the reps you need the timing in the new system you need the scheme to all come together it has to gel it has to congeal you can't be you know just having a quarter of the reps or a half of the reps or a

22:08third of the reps or whatever the case may be you've really got to be getting it down pat as soon as you possibly can and I've seen it over the last how many ever years just be a disaster by the time you get to game one and nobody's ready I mean even the year that Dishon was coming off the shoulder surgery and they were trying to learn Ken Dorsey's offense and nobody knew it nobody practiced together everybody was injured throughout training camp uh davine joku didn't practice in training camp Nick chub wasn't practicing yet uh jerry judy was barely practicing Dishon was limited Dishon didn't start throwing 11 on 11s until many camp was at the year of marie held out to when he held out of spring yeah yes and it had the makings of disaster written all over it you could just tell I remember writing a lot that summer like the first team hasn't worked together

23:10they they haven't worked together I mean they when they practiced against the um the Vikings they they looked horrible right I mean they just they looked horrible so um you just knew that that wasn't going to go well and this year they have to have their act together much much sooner and I'd liked the thing that Todd munkin was saying about john harbaugh was that in even in the offseason it was work work work work work work I'll tell you what if somebody doesn't show up for the offseason program this year at least on the offensive side of the ball they need to be in they need to be in the doghouse I mean they forget it no I mean that that can't happen uh this has to be a well oiled machine as soon as you can get it to be that and uh and they have to work it and rep it and so hopefully for them they'll go into training camp knowing who their qb1 is and they will give

24:15that guy most of the reps yeah I think this has to be a year or two or guys show up it's a something again something we talk about every year on the pod um guys can't be compelled to show up technically they aren't allowed to have it held against them but like they they need guys to show up and you know I would argue even on the defensive side with with the new defensive coordinator and you're trying to sort of obviously a lot of the same coaches but you're trying to kind of install this I don't want to say completely new culture on defense but a different culture it's gonna it's going to be different than under Jim Schwartz I think having having guys there as much as possible in the spring is gonna matter um now I still would be surprised if we see Miles Garrett there a lot during the spring but you know if they can get close to a hundred percent attendance I think I think that would I think that would matter and I do think that does send a message sometimes just this idea of like like I've said on the pod before treat the spring like you haven't accomplished anything you know treat the spring like you've won eight games in the last two years you know show up and it's not that it's not that big of an ask to show up to OTA's in

25:19mini camp or real like they're not even allowed to have you there on weekends like it's very strict how long your how long your days are when you're allowed to be there it's it's not that big of a of a hassle to show up in the spring no and I applaud a guy like Denzel Ward who shows up every single year and you ask him why and he says because I want to set the tone I want to show younger guys how this is done I want to do everything I possibly can to help our team win this year and if everybody had that attitude then I think they're going to be in good shape I remember one year Zadarius showed up for um you know for some of the OTA's and he was like where is everybody like some of his fellow defensive lineman weren't there and he was confused by that he was like no we need to be here like what are we doing and um so hopefully they'll get really really good attendance this year because they're going to need it they're going to need it and I think the good teams do show up and I think the teams that are playing uh for the playoffs and the super

26:25ball are teams that understand the importance of these offseason workouts so uh it's important and they have you know a longer on ramp this year you know they've they've got extra mini camp and uh I think that whatever anybody can do to show up and be a leader and be helpful I think that's what they need to do yeah and I think even you know Joel came around a little bit over the last few years I know he initially you know after everything kind of went down when they were after COVID when they were pushing back on the offseason program when the union was Joel skipped a couple but I know like in in the past couple years he he maybe wasn't out on the practice field but you know they were telling us at least he was in the building so like even even bad extent like if you're an older guy and you don't want to be out on the practice field like I can understand that but I do think showing up does send it does send a message to everybody especially when you're a veteran like a Denzel award um who again to your point has has made it clear why he wants to be there and you know I do think that's that's a tone for for a lot of guys

27:29when you want your spring break to feel like and your kids pool day to feel like and your hotel but to feel like oh and room service to feel like because at Hilton hospitality feels like your cabana is ready would you like fresh towels it matters where you stay okay Let's get to another draft question here this one comes from Demetrios from Cleveland hey Mary Kaye besides Tackle and Wide Receiver what position becomes a position of focus to the Browns Peak two linemen two receivers or is there another position that they need to draft Well, I wouldn't be surprised if they look at some of these quarterbacks as developmental prospects in a mid-round or in a later round.

28:31There are some pretty intriguing names that are going to be there in this draft at quarterback. And if you're looking to develop and teach and bring some guys along, then maybe you bring one of those guys in. Look, it's Todd Munkin, who has a fresh pair of eyes on these quarterbacks. And if he sees somebody in this class that he is more excited to work with than he is with, say, a Dylan Gabriel, then why not swap those guys out, bring somebody else in that Todd would get excited about. I think a lot of people view Dylan Gabriel as someone that maybe Kevin Stafansky was more excited to work with. I don't think it was necessarily that. I think Andrew Berry was equally as excited about Dylan Gabriel. But if they feel like there's somebody in this draft that they would like to see a little bit more or might have a little bit higher upside potential, then that could be something

29:34that they look at. So I would be on the lookout for that. You know, you can never, Andrew Berry loves to draft cornerbacks, right? I mean, you can never have too many really good cornerbacks. And you need to have some people in the pipeline, right? You know, once some of your stars start to get up there a little bit in years, you have to be thinking ahead and even defensive end. So yes, if there's a past rusher of the future in this draft, by all means, you would be looking for something like that as well. So I just think that there could be a little surprise or two along the way. Yeah, I do wonder where they're going to go with the quarterback position. Obviously, there's the wild card of them falling in love with somebody and taking them as like their guy. But if that's not the case, you know, how do they view like Drew Aller or how do they view one of these guys who might be there late on day two, even whatever early on day three.

30:39You know, how do they, how do they view a guy like Taylor and green? You know, like, I don't, I don't know there could be some, there could be some interesting decisions that they make here at the quarterback position and kind of building out that room. Yeah, I mean, a guy like, like, Taylor and green, who had just off the charts, measurables at the combine and his six foot six, a guy like that, I mean, you might want to get him into your building and see what he can become and see what you can do with him. Now, he might be a two, three year project, but so what? I mean, Malik Willis has been a four year project right now so far. But if it turns out the way Miami hopes it does, he's going to be one heck of a quarterback and he showed some really good things last year. So if you can develop a guy and he wasn't showing that early on when he was with the Titans

31:41and he'll be the first to admit he wasn't working it hard enough. He didn't know how to work. He didn't know what to work. I mean, sometimes it takes time. It takes maturity. It takes coaching. It takes mentorship. It takes a lot. It takes a village, but you know, if you see tantalizing traits like incredible speed and good arm strength and some things like that, you know, you've got a coaching staff this year that would love to get their hands on a guy like that and see what they could do with somebody like that. So I wouldn't rule anything out. I'm very intrigued by Taylor and Green. I need to watch some film and I need to talk to some people and I need to study. I need to go through my process and I'll let you know what I think after I get through all these steps that I like to go through. But heading in, I'm tantalized by some of the traits. Well, and I think this is going to be music to your ears. But I like we talked about this as Jalen Miller last year. Now, obviously that was a different situation where you had to take.

32:42Well, you would have had to have taken him earlier on the draft, but like drafting a guy like that who can do something very specific at the quarterback position. Can't you find a role for that guy? Like couldn't you and, you know, look, Seattle ended up not using Jalen Miller or much at all. But like if you draft a guy like that onto a roster like this that has a lot of quarterback unrest, I'm not saying you have to draft him to be your starter. He doesn't have to play. You know, you don't have to turn this into like the college thing where you split, you know, you split time. But like if you have a guy like that just on your roster, like couldn't you find a way to to utilize that skill set and just mix things up and like change things up? I know you've been a court to quarterback system person for a while. Like, hey, if you've got a guy, why not find a package for him, right? Like, I don't know. I think that's an interesting way to use a day three pick and bring him in and say, Todd, look, here's this. We don't know what he's going to develop in too long term, but at least right now,

33:44here's another toy to play with figure out a way to utilize him and cause some problems on, I don't know, five plays a game. Well, nobody knew what to make of Lamar Jackson when he was coming out. I mean, my goodness, you know, he was the last quarterback picked, last player picked in the first round of that 2018 draft and nobody really knew what to make of him. And so I think he's a prime example of take a look at a guy who has a unique skill set and who is kind of a unicorn and see if it can turn into something. And I do think when you have an athlete like that with that kind of size, with that kind of speed, I do think that somebody should be smart enough to just get him into the building and see what you can do. I mean, the draft is such a crapshoot anyways. I mean, what is it? Half, half the picks don't make it anyway.

34:45So if you're going to blow it on something, why not have it be? And I always say this, why not have it be a quarterback who you think might have something for you down the road. That's why I was all about drafting Malik Willis in 2022 because he had the tantalizing skill set. He had the arm strength. He had the running ability. And I figured that if somebody coached him up correctly, that he could turn into something and it took a while. I looked really wrong about that in his first two years. I thought, oh, okay, I've lost my touch. But, but now, you know, he just might be what some people thought he could be. And the Steelers really should have drafted him instead of Kenny Pickett that year. Yeah, that's a, we have enough draft misses to break down here. We don't need to get a Steelers, Steelers draft misses as far as other positions are concerned.

35:46I do, you know, you mentioned cornerback as one. I think you could afford to add a safety somewhere. I'm not saying, you know, number six, but like could you add another young safety? You've got Grant Helper, you've got Ronnie Hickman, could you add another guy into that room? I don't know what they're going to do with the veterans there. So it might not be a bad idea to add somebody there. And then, you know, look, they'll probably take another interior alignment too. So I think there's, once you get, once you get tackled figured out, once you get receiver figured out, I think everything's on the board as far as what they could do is, is concerned. Okay, Mary Kay, this is a wild card. This comes from Jeff L. in Bath, Ohio. Sometimes I like these questions. Hey, Mary Kay, there are three major league sports franchises in Cleveland. Two are competently managed while the third is a perpetual clown show. I think people can figure out the, the order there. The third is far and away the most popular. Why do Cleveland fans just love most what they can't have?

36:49And as, as we know, and I'm certainly not going to complain about it because it's, it's my job to cover them. This is and always will be a brownstown through and through. People will love the calves. They'll love the guardians, but we know that no matter what, this is just going to be a brownstown through and through. It really is. I mean, it just really is. And can you just imagine what the championship, what the Super Bowl parade would be like here? Right? I mean, I was downtown for the calves parade. And I think the browns parade would top that. I do. Do you think so? Yeah, I think it would. I think it would just be instead. Obviously it would probably be colder and, you know, whatever. But yeah, I think it would be, I don't know how many more people you can fit downtown, but it would certainly test those limits. That's true. That is true. But it does seem to me like that one would be the crown jewel of the city if that happens.

37:50But yeah, I mean, we'll have to see. I know the Hazlums want to get it right. I know they're trying to get it right. I know that's what they're going to tell us once again at the owner's meetings. I know they hate the fact that they have to keep taking a step forward and a couple steps back. And they don't want to be in this position. I know they want to get to winning as soon as they possibly can this year. The weird part about this year, of course, once again, is that it's not a good quarterback year. It's not a great year to need one. And they're just going to have to hope that they have their guy on the roster. They can win games for them. But yeah, the Hazlums, they have struggled to get it right. And hopefully for them, they'll figure out the quarterback thing as soon as possible. They could actually just do the parade from 76 Lou Groza down to the new stadium in Brookpark. There's probably plenty of room to fit people there if they wanted to do that. I mean, I just think first and foremost, Ohio is a football state.

38:52It's a football, like it just is what it is. And it's just always going to be like that. And plus the NFL right now is just keeps getting bigger and bigger. So I think that plays into it as well. It's just the most popular of all the major sports. So that's part of it too. But I will say this to your point about the Hazlums. And this is not to like defend. This is not to just be a shill. But I will give them credit. They've gotten it wrong. But they do continually try. And they do, they do keep spending money. They do keep writing checks. So at the very least, we know they're going to keep trying. And eventually, I hope they hit on something. But this isn't like a Cincinnati situation where they just don't ever spend money. Or speaking over other sports teams in town. This isn't a guardian situation. Where it's like if you could just spend a little more money here, maybe that could get them over the hump. So at the very least, when the Hazlums say they want to get it right, and they are trying, I think that's true.

39:55You know, they're not just saying that and then closing the checkbook. They are genuinely trying. They really are. And that's why they were able to go out and probably overpay on some of these offensive linemen that they just acquired. Because the the Hazlums have the deep pockets to want to get this right. And we can only just imagine what people would be saying if they weren't willing to pay to rebuild the offensive line. Or if they weren't willing to pay for a quarterback or whatever else. But they've always been willing to go out and shell out the big bucks for whatever it takes to get this team restocked and on the track to winning. So we'll have to see. But hey, I need to back up on something for a minute here. Oh, all right. Go ahead. When we were talking about what other positions in the draft, you mentioned where you said maybe even a safety.

40:55And she said then you said not at number six. So I just wanted to ask you. So you wouldn't take Handle Downs at number six? Yeah, I mean, we're at the gash this is debate. We're going to have forever. I don't think I would. I think I would either take someone else or I would trade to pick. Okay. I like Caleb Downs. And I mean, some people think he is one of those guys. So I could certainly understand why you would do it. But I don't think safety is a premium enough, premium enough position. And I don't know that like if you can guarantee me he's going to be Ed Reed. Then I'm doing it. But I think, you know, if it's fixing tackle, if it's taking another premium position, I think I would probably go that direction. But yeah, I mean, that's the debate. Like he is that good that that's a legitimate question. Yeah, if he is generational or if he's going to be one of the best at his position for the next 13 years, then I would be all for it.

41:56But you have to make sure that you're a game changer. And that you are going to be a reason, a big reason that the Browns can get to the next level and try to win a Super Ball. Let me throw this at you. Let's say, let's say he was going to be like that guy. Let's just, we don't even need to say Ed Reed. Let's say he's going to be like Kyle Hamilton, who I think is really good. And I think I think probably should have been a DPOI discussion this year. That type of player. But somebody called you up and offered you a first round pick next year. Would you give that away for a first round pick next year? If it didn't require you, well, let's just say it's about a super big move down. You know, let's say like 10 or 11 at most. I would take the pick next year. Take the pick next year because you might need a quarterback. Yeah. And that's more important than anything. I would take the pick. If you don't have a quarterback, you don't have anything. And if you think that you have a chance to get a much better, ready,

42:56Dante Moore or Lenora Sellers or Archman or whatever you think you can get, I would want to be in position to be able to do that. So I would do that. Would you do that? I would. Yeah. I think that would be an ideal situation. And I don't know if they could get a first round pick for number six. But the ideal situation for the Browns would be a defensive player that people really want. Maybe a team gives them a first round pick next year to move up and get that guy. I would, I would definitely try to get another first next year. They too. All right. Well, we're just getting started on draft talk. We're still, I mean, it's only March 16th. So we're like more than a month away from the draft still. So we'll get into this plenty more. We're going to be starting Tim and Lance pods here soon as they, we're going to do dueling, dueling big boards at some point next week. They're going to lay out their top 10 and we're going to see how they compare. So we're going to really start digging into the draft here on the Orange and Brown talk podcast. So just get subscribed on Apple podcast and Spotify on YouTube.

43:57It's Cleveland Browns on Cleveland.com. And of course, if you're not a football insider subscriber, head to Cleveland.com, slash Browns, click the blue banner at the top of the page and get involved with that. And of course, all our socials, any social you're on, go look for Orange, Brown talking, give us a follow. Mary Kale, talk to you later. Sounds great.