Notre Dame Opens Spring Football, Pro Day Reactions and much more

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1:05Welcome to the latest episode of The Independent. I'm Pete Samson back from Southeast Asia. Join as always my coach, Matt Fortuna, Matt. Did I miss anything while I was touring temples... ...and enjoying the beach in Thailand or no? Were you scouting out future Shamrock series sites? That's what I want to know. I drove past the national stadium of Thailand in Bangkok... ...and I have to say it seemed quite nice. I think that the... ...no one should push the envelope a little bit. The 12-hour time difference might be a little tricky. Because I'm sure they would then turn around in week two... ...and play some in major at home. Who knows what would happen then. It's worth exploring. If I'm Pete Pabakwa, I know you've got other things to figure out. If you're a poor or a Bangkok Shamrock series, it's... ...we're thinking about. What could go wrong with that? Other than that, no. Spring football started. Prode happened. You were there. You've been back for that. The basketball season ended. I mean, it ended probably before you left.

2:05But I think it officially ended. But men's basketball season. There's a woman's basketball season still ongoing. But knock on wood relatively quiet two weeks. Think you picked a good time to go left. Yeah, it seems though. I've followed along for the opening spring practice. You know, I'm reading the transcripts, watching some of the video cut-ups and whatnot. And I don't, you know, even listening to Marcus Freeman's commentary on it, it's not... I'll be interested. And we talked about this for a hit record. I'll be interested to see when Notre Dame leans into where a national title favorite as a sort of identity or a vibe around the team. It's March 26 as we record this. I'm totally fine with them. You know, stiff-farming that a little bit for now. But, man, it's hard... It's hard to watch these guys practice and not think, okay, they have... They have the whole thing. Like, I'm standing out of practice on Wednesday morning. Just... I just watched the defensive ends for a while.

3:05And you're like, they all... It's like now they have six boobah car triaries instead of one. You know, we've covered these guys long enough that like... You're signing a triory every other year. Maybe. You're signing a young... A Bryce Young every three or four years. And now they have both together with Rodney Dunham, Ebenezer, Otate, and Ken Keely. And you're thinking like, okay, remember when we covered Notre Dame? And like, they needed junior to hell. I'm not going to be like kind of a tryhard player. And, you know, make a big play, but he's an undersized linebacker trying to play defensive end. Like, they don't have guys like that anymore. Like, this... The team to me looks like they are just prototypes across the board on defense. You know, Tay Johnson has gone from like a up and coming safety to potential all-American this year.

4:07But I... Man, this defense should be outstanding. And then you just need CJ Carter to take another step forward. And Voila, you're playing for the national title in Las Vegas in late January. I think the seeds for that have been a little bit planted. Marketstream in last Wednesday, I think, had his pre-spring press conference. And he talked about the leave no doubt mindset. How do you use that situation without losing it? How do you not blame someone else? How do you not let human nature take hold and not blame the committee? And say, you know, we did not leave doubt. I think that's like the seeds being planted. And he talked a lot about how the newcomers need to feel the pain of what the returning players felt from last year, which obviously is easier said than done. But I think you're seeing like the 20,000-foot view of like Marketstream in his message slowly come together as Spring football begins. As they had a very long offseason, unlike last year.

5:08I mean, even I think he got asked about the playoff situation last year didn't go. And he was able to joke about it. Be like, what playoff situation? We didn't have anyone. However, yes, like we got a lot more time together this offseason. So I think the seeds are there. They're being planted. But I'm with you. I'm curious to see at what point do they publicly lean into the fact that they are a and in some cases, the national title favorite. Fandool and some other books have come out with their over on their win totals. Newer name is at 11 and a half. You know what that means? Gambleers. If they lose a game, they lose. Like period. And I think that's appropriate. Because even if it was 11, everyone's going to take it because you're not going to lose money. Because if this team goes less than 11 and one with this schedule, there are problems. Not to say they can't get in the playoff and other things can happen. Yada, yada, yada. But it is all set up for this to be. I don't want to say one last ride, but like the ride, everything's been building toward this moment. Everything you just said about past rushing and junior, truly, how I come up, how I come up. That was just two years ago, right?

6:09When we were talking about them in that. Yeah. Context. They made the national title game two years ago. Right. Again, it's just like if that that defense was great. And now you go back. You were not great by the end because they had nothing left. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just at its best that defense was great. And then you go back and you're looking. I was like. I should do a thought experiment. I'm like, how many guys from the 2024 defense would start on the 2026 defense? Like, let her more now is better. Let her. Let her more than. You know what? Let's, let's just pretend Kingston, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, Watts. I, I, it's ridiculous to even think like Watts would be on the chopping block to not start. I mean, you definitely start to pay Johnson. But it's like a, it's like a Don Schuller is probably your third best DB now. And it was like, that's insane. Because Don Schuller is really good. Mild and Cross would be right now.

7:11Mills for sure. Mills and Cross healthy would start. Also healthy. Because they wouldn't have gone and got brew or gray. And I think he's better. The both those guys are better than either of them. You know, the both defense events from this team would start. Certainly one linebacker would start. Nickel. Remains to be seen. You know, by the end, Dallas, Golden could be better than Jordan Clark. Certainly both corners on this team are better. Because of the same corners. So yeah, it's just. It's wild. It's wild to look at that. You know, maybe offensive line now is better, which is not saying a ton. I mean, I, I realize there's no Pat Cougan out there. But like that offensive line was starting over from scratch. That receiver group was. Just. I mean, essentially, it's the same receiver group now. You know, with great house and Jordan phase on. Obviously running back is way better back then. But. Yeah. Just it's, it's strange to sort of as you watch this team come together a little bit more and it's.

8:15It's less sort of this a thought experiment because you're going to go to practice and watch them. It's just like. Damn, they're really good. So yeah, when, when you lean into the damn, you're really good part of the season. You can hold off until August 1st, if you want, if you're Marcus Freeman, but at that point, I don't want to hear about. I just want to reach our full potential. That's our goal because your potential is winning a national title this year. So Bill Connelly, front of the show, release this week is returning production rankings. It's 138 FPS teams. Number one. And it's actually, he has good context here for what that means. I mean, they're turned 72% of their production 67% on offense, which is 19th in the country 77% on defense, which is second in the country. Plus all the additions you mentioned. The context here is college football as we all know is changing drastically.

9:16Notre Dame's case, and I'll just read this verbatim here, quote, Notre Dame leads a nation returning production this season. But the fighting Irish is 72% would have ranked 14th in 2024, would have ranked only seven to last year. So though these numbers will provide a boost to their SP plus projections, along with those of several other teams. The impact won't be as significant as when Iowa State led the nation with 86% two years ago and shut from 7 and 6, 11 and 3. Then again, Notre Dame finish last season, 5th and SP plus the Irish won't have to improve much and become serious national title contenders. Yeah, I mean, it's, and I never realized returning production is not coaching for turning production, but all three coordinators of back or straight coaches back or head coaches back. And the defense of assistance that they hired in Charlie Partridge and Aaron Henry, less so Brian Jean Marie, but they know Chris Ash. And I was talking to somebody a pro day who is quite familiar with all those defensive coaches and just like, you know, the pieces didn't really fit together like they thought they were going to fit together last year from a coaching point of view.

10:20It's just, and there's not going to be a moment this season or Marcus Freeman has to intervene with the defense and be like, look, stop doing this. You know, I just, I don't think Ash did a very good job last year of understanding his own personnel, which I guess happens with a first year coordinator, but like you're paid to not have that happen, but that that's sort of neither here nor there now. We don't need to relitigate that because he knows his personnel and that's, there's no reason that Notre Dame should have an early season stumble. I mean, they should just destroy people for the first six games of the season before you go to BYU on October 17th, but the schedule set up for it. It might not be a super interesting schedule, but it's a hell of a schedule to sort of work out all your kinks before it gets hard with BYU and Miami coming in November. Yeah, I love the way the staff's been put together the way the rosters have built the way it's been recruited the way they attack the portal just they got the whole thing and it's we never say that there's always a hole somewhere there's always a trap door you're looking out for with Notre Dame.

11:39At some point this summer, I probably will write a column of like why Notre Dame won't win a national title just as like a thought experiment, but I'm not sure I'm going to believe it as I'm writing it. It would just be a way to sort of poke holes and like if it doesn't happen, why wouldn't it happen? And there aren't a ton of why wouldn't it happen legitimate reasons. Outside of like injury or like external factors, it's hard to come up. I mean, I have to think losing a player is dynamic offensive. Please chair my love. Readers, it's had at some point. Yeah, even if it's a running back. That has to be a factor. The receivers will be better. How good. Potentially really good, but I'm not going to the car or the horse of that position because we've been guilty of doing that with Notre Dame before, but those are the two parts of it. I think linebackered depth a little more extreme and really didn't sound too concerned about at least in the spring when he talked about it last week is something to keep an eye on.

12:42And then, you know, I'm not saying he's not the answer. I still have questions about Chris Ash. Like you said, he had one job wise here and he did not accomplish it. So they beat up on a lot of bad opponents at the end of the year as they should have and they looked damn good doing it, but it was too little too late. And you can't have that happen again. And yet, it shouldn't happen with this talent on this roster and with a coaching staff that all now speaks the same language on that side of the ball. But that's also put in a lot on the plate of a guy who, if you had to point the finger at one person for why they did not make the playoffs last year, it would be Chris Ash. I don't think there's I would know who also would be maybe Marcus Raymond for hiring Chris Ash, but again, he kept me brought like that's really stretching it. But you look at this year's schedule and you mentioned it and I went on our friend Bill and Doug show with Ari Wasserman earlier this week and we talked overunders and Doug said, you know, Notre Dame's overunders 11 and a half and what 11 and a half what's your reaction. I said, it's absurd, but it's also totally explainable like I wouldn't that it because I just especially in this day and age of cultural or the regular season means less and less.

13:49I wouldn't put all my money on it any team to go undefeated, but it makes perfect sense. I mean, you look at the schedule. We could pick it apart million different ways. Doug brought this up. I was unaware of this part of it. So the power five teams who's over under wins got released, which is all of them this week on Fandole. The lowest are three and a half four teams have a three and a half total. How many is there didn't play this here? The four teams have a three and a half win total. Power five. I mean, Purdue. Syracuse. Nope. Michigan State. Yep. Who else? Oh, God, they play some bad teams. Stay. I would say Stanford or you did not say them, but they're one. There's one more. Basically, they already support the four worst teams. Power five.

14:51They already plays the four worst teams. All technology is the other one. Oh, yeah. Syracuse is not among that group who they beat 70 to seven last year. I won't remind you. Big thanks to our sponsor, Better Help for partnering with us for this important conversation about mental health. This Steve Smith here, former NFL Y receiver and host of the 89 show on YouTube. So having a counselor and working with Better Health, that gives you an opportunity to really start to unpack, but people don't understand when you unpack things. You also open up a box that you're not always sure what sense I was. So I think that's why seeing a professional is extremely important. If you need someone to open up to, visit BetterHelp. That's better. H-E-L-P dot com slash 89 to get started. When you want spring break to feel like in a moment away from the kids to feel like and your reward status to feel like. Thank you for being a Hilton Honors Gold member. Enjoy your daily food and beverage credit. And now that nightcap in the lounge can feel like

15:54it matters where you stay. With Hilton Honors, earn the most valuable gold status faster and unlock benefits at over 9,000 locations worldwide. Hilton, for this day. Yeah, it's a bet. I mean, it's a bad schedule that is going to be sort of an annoyingly picked to death, picked a part to death during the year. And then they did it last year. Yeah, and just know like, but then nobody's the playoff. They're going to make the playoffs and nobody's going to care. You know, it just is. It qualifies a is a it is what it is. Situation for Notre Dame. They should go 11 and 1 or 12 and 0. And there should be no they it should be comfortable. But I but I'm with you on the love part because I think back to. What happens when they have a game like. Boston College last year where that it was they just were screwing around.

16:55And then you're my love. Like, yeah, that's my point. It's like, there will be a game where Notre Dame is screwing around. They're playing with their food as people like to say. And last year was love. Just go at 97 yards. It's fine. Our price went 72 yards. Fine. They could they could lose the game where they're playing with their food this year. And, you know, it's it. It would still take a lot. I think. Short of BYU and Miami. I don't want to hear about SMU coming to Notre Dame in late November and being like, oh, this is a difficult team. They're good team. I mean, Notre Dame should be in my double digits. And they'll be favorite. But I feel like I feel like. It's for last year as they do about SMU this year. Like I'm paper and I'm like, oh, this is a good team. And they're going to win by 30. At a good record. I was never really a believer in them. But I think we look at SMU that way because.

17:56Notre Dame is really good. Like. SMU would be most teams on schedule. They're over under a half. If they won if they were in the past year. That's what I'm saying. If they were in the ACC title and they were in the playoff two years before. They were in the ACC title game. So like. Whatever whatever the football culture of all equivalent is of like war. Like SMU has got a high war. Like they're one of the better teams in the ACC. Like. It doesn't get much better than SMU in that league, which is another rant for another day. But I think it's a testament to how good Notre Dame is about. Why were you as a league motto where that would fit in? It's like that we're workshopping. It doesn't get much better than SM. It doesn't welcome to the ACC. But you're right. It's I just think it like if Notre Dame. It's one of those if Notre Dame was going to SMU. And SMU was coming off of I. And Notre Dame had just played at BYU. Then I'd be like, All right. Kind of a trapping difficult situation. That's not what's happening.

18:56It's SMU coming to Notre Dame in November. Late November. Not right after Miami. Late November. Um, self that. I kind of a hard time getting my head around it. But did you remember Kevin Jennings in the cell? Yeah. Right. What great. I remember correctly. So. Yeah. This is all a long wooded way. Say like I think Notre Dame is going to be really freaking good. We've been saying it. But now you you're out watching spring practice a little bit. We get. I think a fully open practice the week before the spring game. It's just, you know, it's been this way for the last few years. I have a Jersey scrimmer. They open it to media. It's incredibly enlightening. So we get a better sense of it then. So just. It's a lot of fun. But. And I think it's one thing to keep in mind is. I know. Myelan Gramman has turned quite a few heads the Ohio State transfer. I've heard less about Frances brew or tiangrai. DJ McKinney's not here. Jaden Sanders is. Just sort of in the mix at DB, which is fine.

19:56Quetzy Porter is out. You know, all those transfers. It's very rare that a transfer comes in and does something in spring because we were just like, whoa. All right, like this is, no name's got something here. Riley and I missed all of spring. Javante Jean-Baptiste was like a non-factor in the spring here. I don't remember it, Demantes Smith doing anything last year. Like all those transfers are gonna be way better coming in to August than they are now. And they look physically impressive, but when August rolls around, you're getting a different caliber of help to your roster. So it's even though there aren't roster additions coming short of Teddy Girard, me and Premer. I think a couple of offensive linemen that like, they're gonna be wrong, those will help. Like the Notre Dame that we see in August practicing will be a lot better than the Notre Dame that we're seeing now. Practicing in the Notre Dame. We're seeing now practicing what's really good. The other part, you know, the get out jail free card, during my love, I know we harp on this last offseason a lot

20:58and kind of a healthy debate about whether it was correct analysis or not, but I don't have any questions about the leadership of this team. Right now. No, even Marcus Williams says, the first time I've got two captains returning. One of them, Don Schuller, I was told, found himself in the middle of two fights at the end of Wednesday's practice, which I think is a great thing. Cause you need that dog in you. And frankly, I thought Schuller, if you asked me who I'd want, having my back in the dark alley out of last year's captains, it would have been Don Schuller, Don Schuller, Don Schuller. No offense to the other guys. Really shrout honorable mention, but yeah, Don Schuller. Right now. So I think that's part of it. And like, was it Jack Kaiser? Not Jack, who do you interview? Who said Eli Rardon? Eli Rardon, I'm sorry. Yeah, I did Kaiser last year for a similar exercise. Yeah, all those, yeah. All those white guys, they look alike. CJ Carr, like, not since EM book, could you say, we got a returning starter quarterback

22:00who's like our dog and who's going to lead us? Carr couldn't be that last year because he had won the job yet. Right, Leonard was that, but like, we only do so much when you've been on campus, actually playing for a couple of months. And Don Schuller. And this is, it's just different. And that matters. That, that to be matters, every bit as much as all right, it's 13, 10 at Boston College in the fourth quarter. When are we going to like, get our stuff together? We'll hang out here in my love. It's, hey, who's going to be the guy to do the Ross Beach here and leave no doubt? Like, I feel very, very good about this group. I'm March 26 from a leadership standpoint. In a way, I definitely didn't last year. A way, probably similar to what I felt two years ago, but even two years ago, they still like, this was still an improving staff, it was an improving program under Marcus Raymond. Like, they had not taken that major leap yet, so. I felt better about the leadership two years ago than the staff.

23:00Yeah, I did too. This year, I feel good about both. I would agree. And I don't, you know, I think, then I, you lost and the response to that loss, probably validates that, right? Like, yeah. Coach, that's not what it does. I'm in position to lose that game, but the leadership help them get out of it and use it. But no, I just feel, I feel very, very, like, that's not a concern of me right now. And I think that's something that a lot of teams with all this turnover, like we just talked about across the country, take a great. Yeah. Cars leadership, I, you know, and Rared had mentioned this when I talked to him, you know, before a lot of month ago. But I do think there's something about cars leadership that is above and beyond what it just a good quarterback captain would be like. And it's not just the football IQ stuff. I asked him, you'll Wagner this during pro day, because I know I'm going to be writing about it. And I was just like, I saw, so like, I'll,

24:02like, all quarterbacks are leaders, like it or not. But like, cars seems different. So like, what's, what's different? Like, give me something that he does where you're just like, what the hell is that? And he said, as cars freshman year, he's hurt, not playing. And he's coming to the offensive line room to watch film with the offensive line. And I think that it was all, and Wagner's like, what is, like, what is this about? Because usually guys who are hurt kind of vanish a little bit. Sometimes they're like, you know, they're taking mental reps or they're studying film or what have you. They're not going to another position groups meeting room and watching film with them. So it just, when Car Talks, I talked to him on Wednesday for a story that's up on the athletic. And he just didn't, I think this quote made it in there. But he's like, he just matter, effectively, I know our offense inside and out. I know our defense inside and out. And like, he goes to practice trying

25:03to force himself into mistakes almost because he wants to go out there and push it. And, you know, it's a, it's a really good sign when you could treat practice as a lab if you're a quarterback where you're just like, you're pushing the boundaries you want to break it. And if you throw a pick, who cares? Like, it just doesn't matter because he's not throwing a pick because he don't understand what he's doing. He's throwing a pick because he's trying to like push this offense is to be as fast and explosive as humanly possible. And when your quarterback is that far down the road, that is, to me, that is just an incredible sign of like where, where the offense can be because I don't even think they, I don't think they got there with this with Ian Bulk when he was a second and third year starter. Like, I think this is cars, football, acumen is just off the charts to go with that leadership that I already talked about. Hold that thought.

26:03I want to add to it. If I first water my everyone to subscribe to the athletic to read that story much more from Pete, subscribe to the inside zone, to read my content at insidezonemf.com. Like to also think our friends at obvious shirts, OBVIOUSSHIRTS.com, great podcast, merchandise, t-shirts, quarters of hoodies, crudex. You name it, they got it. It's also opening day right in the back yard right here. Lots of baseball merchandise if that's your forte as well. Thank you to our friends at obvious shirts. Great supporters of the independent. And our friends at robeck.com, rhobac.com, promo code Irish for 20% off your first order is golf season as the leprechaun will tell you about a Notre Dame. But if you're looking for a different kind of golf here, robeck.com, promo code Irish for 20% first order, hoodies which I'm wearing right now, pull those quarters hips, which I'll be wearing hopefully this week when I try to break the clubs out, shorts, joggers, everything you need for an active lifestyle, robeck.com, promo code Irish for 20% off your first order.

27:07Water usually wins. It rots wood and tears docks apart. Unless you build with trecks, trecks marine grade decking is 100% submersible, built to resist rod and salt and fresh water. Water has met its match. Trecks decking, visit trecks.com slash docks. When you want spring break to feel like in a moment away from the kids to feel like and your reward status to feel like. Thank you for being a Hilton Honors Gold member. Enjoy your daily food and beverage credit. And now that nightcap in the lounge can feel like it matters where you stay. With Hilton Honors, earn the most valuable gold status faster and unlock benefits at over 9,000 locations worldwide. Hilton, for this day. Well, as a couple of media appearances, Market Streams are wearing the old school uppercount. I don't get that. It's like, oh yeah, the fighting Irish, that one. Actually, I saw an official wear that year

28:07in a press gathering was Pete Pavacco where debuting the basketball leprechaun. At the football playoff conference. Yeah, after the football playoff conference. So maybe I do remember that actually. Well, that was gotta be all. I mean, he's gotta be swimming in golf leprechaun stuff. Like that's a support. I thought I could say basketball, but I don't know if that is a support based on everything we've seen the last couple of years here. But I feel like people ask why we don't talk more basketball every time we talk it, the numbers show us that people are not necessarily listening to it. Nor do I blame them, given the state of the program right now, but there have been a couple transfers. Michael Schruzberry was reportedly close to, well, he was on Butler's radar. And I know that is true. How close that actually was happening. I don't know. I immediately thought of what you always say, Pete, which was, I believe this is one, Michael Schruzberry got hired, which was, hey, if he does a really good job in our name, he'll be the next Purdue coach. If he doesn't, he'll be the next Butler coach. You were almost right on the nose there. And maybe you will be the right on the nose

29:08if Proud Nora doesn't work out there. But not good, not promising. I don't know what else there is to say at this point. I'd say retomnoi in the South Entribune again, who took a sledgehammer to that program in administration and deservedly so in my opinion. He knows it better than any of us do. But one other note I've been told, Kyle Getter, their associate head coach, is very close to meeting the next head coach at Pepperdine. So good for him if you can get off, excuse me, get off that seeking chip and run his own program after what's just been, let's face a complete failure of experiment for three years here. Yeah, and unfortunately it's gonna get worse. And you might say like, how can I get worse than missing the ACC tournament and going, they go form 14 in the league? Like it will go substantially worse. They've already lost three transfers. I think Ryder, so the Ryder Frost here at Sondra and Sermohamid.

30:10I'm very, very confident that Jalen Harylson is out of here, which is incredibly frustrating, not just because I watched him play in high school a lot, but he's so fun to watch play. He was the highest ranked prospect in modern recruiting history at Notre Dame. And they just absolutely wasted him. On a terrible team, Marcus Burton, and then Colsterna would be the other ones, likely exiting. I think Tom, no, we reported that. Harylson's the one I'm personally confident in. But it, I don't know what you have at the end. I mean, we were talking a month ago. It's like, okay, what's the best case scenario? It's like you bring in John Sanders in a point guard, play Burton off the ball, Harylson's on the wing, Colsterna, and then you sort of play four out. Now it's like, do you have a set, do you have seven scholarship players? It's just, it's a disaster.

31:11And it's just so frustrating that you know what the deal is and nobody wrote this quite well. It's like, you know what it costs to win. And I guess what we're recording is we'll wait as jumping from NC State to LSU. And some of the reporting I had is like, NC State was willing to go up to about $13, $14 million for their basketball roster in NIL. Like, I gotta think Notre Dame's closer to like three or four. Like that's, no, he said it's under five and I've every reason to believe that's true. Yeah, I mean, I thought it was three last year, which I was like, well, that's not good because Harylson and Burton are chewing up two by themselves. Like that's, that's just unserious investment in basketball. You're not making the tournament. You're not gonna be 500 in the league. You're just, you've given your fan base no reason to reengage. In fact, like the hardcore's God bless them

32:13who have stuck this out. Like, I don't know why you would, you also should sit out next season because basically that's what Notre Dame is a basketball program is taking a red shirt next year. And it's not over the last three years. Yeah, but it's just gonna get worse than where it's been. Like this year, at least you're like, okay, maybe there'll be a bubble team with things going well. Obviously it was a total disaster for some reasons that were beyond True's Bray's control, but some reasons that were his responsibility. Next year, it doesn't matter if Michael Shrewsbury turns into John Wooden. Like, it's not going to make a difference. And then you have to re-evaluate the end of the year. It's like, okay, we didn't give him a chance to compete. I guess he's better or worse than we thought. Like, has he done a better job representing the school? I think that's been a real issue. So, I don't know. It's, I think I'm a cover football, but I like basketball as a sport war as like a fan.

33:15And I'm just frustrated watching Notre Dame basketball disintegrate right in front of me because it's something that should be entertaining. It's something that should be like a good community event around South Bend. And it's so far away from either of those things. That's the thing. Again, what's a realistic expectation for this program? I don't know, it's not this. Like, pretend to care, which they're not even doing right now. I mean, we heard one statement or anything from anyone, like, hey, we know this year was not to our standards. However, we've got a plan in place to do this and do that. We got that from Alan Green and Jeff Capel at Pittsburgh, right? We got that from other places that decided to stick with their coach. Looks like a little Wisconsin, right? Very good. Well, yeah, for football, yeah. I mean, we're at a part of Notre Dame basketball. You know, we're comparing Notre Dame basketball and Wisconsin football like a month and a half ago. Like, they're not comparable at all anymore. I mean, here's the thing. And the ACC this year was decent. But like, this is all happening during, maybe the worst period in the ACC's history. They had nine total tournament bids in 24 and 25.

34:18She was very first two years there. Nine total. They had eight this year. So they're on their way back. And not only are they on their way back, you know, Syracuse just hired Jerry McNamara. That will probably work out. They won't be as bad as they were. That's for sure. Georgia Tech just made a hire. Boston College is the middle of making hire. Like, everyone else is getting better. North Carolina. North Carolina will be better. Yes, they will be better. It's just hard to get better with with Odom, right? Like, oh, yeah. You know, that's. There are schools that are figured like, you can, the schools that are all in a basketball, you can tell SMU. I mean, obviously they made that move for football. But I know this were a fact, like, David Miller, the big booster who fronted the, the deal to get SMU into the ACC is a basketball guy, six foot eight. And from what I've been told, like, this ACC move for him was every bit as much about like being able to tell my buddies, I got Duke and North Carolina play in every year in my gym.

35:20Yeah. And what did they do? They got Andy. I feel out of USC and he, it was only the first four, but they did make the tournament this year. And I'm filled with successful USC. He had a lot of Brian Kelly to him. He wasn't really like that beloved on campus. He was very business like. But if you look at the numbers, he was as good as any coach I've ever had at USC on the basketball program. And SMU said, we're going to pay what it takes to get him. So you see that's my, that's my standard for success for knowing basketball at this point. It's like, can you, can you be a bubble team? Like if, if, if you're a bubble team that plays a style basketball that I want to watch and you don't make the tournament, that's, to me, that's a successful season. You know, you can't do that every year, but Notre Dame is not a, not a, they're not going to get on a 27 year run of making the tournament like Michigan State. I get, they just, if you make it three out of 10 years, and one of those years you get to the sweet 16, great.

36:20But what they're doing now is just so far away from, like, from acceptable, it's difficult to, difficult to get your head around how they turn it around or how they let it get to where it is right now. I'm going back as you're saying this. I remember, and I'm trying to see if there are any tea leaves here. Brian Hamilton, your colleague with the athletic former Nurtain beat writer, sat down with Shrewsbury shortly after he got hired at Notre Dame. And I remember the feeling I had Reena story was like, Shrewsbury sounds almost like, not that he has second thoughts, but like, does he really know what he got himself into here? And I just found the story now. And it's never as bad as like you remember it or how you felt while reading in real time three years ago. But there's one word, quote, I realize where I am. The University of Notre Dame is going to exist, whether we have a basketball program or not. I realize that, I recognize that. Maybe I fit here because I know I'm just coaching basketball and I'm not trying to change the world. I'm a rule follower. They tell us we need to do it this way. We're going to do it that way. Here's your lane. I'm good at staying in my lane.

37:22Kind of nailed it if you look at it. I guess, yeah, it's quite out. I mean, it just feels like a white flag before you've coached your first game on the one hand. Also feels like an acceptance of reality on the other. But that's, I have to think I would hope that Michael Schoesberry would look at it and be like, look, this is the sport has changed so much. And we've seen it with football, right? Like the salaries being paid in football, like Notre Dame's gone from like seven to 15 to 30 million plus from my understanding in football in three years. Basketball has not followed. And that's, again, you don't need to spend Duke or Kentucky money. But you better be spending NC State money and clearly they're not doing that. So they got to, it's definitely a come to three point

38:25Jesus moment for the actual impact reality in Michael Schoesberry. I'm like, all right, do we want to do this or not? And if you don't, just tell everybody. But there's no reason that a program that's 8th all time and wins should be like, yeah, we're out on basketball. That makes no sense. One more quote here from Schoesberry in that story from May 31st, 2023 quote, I'm the head coach at University of Notre Dame. And that's really cool for me. Yeah, it's tough right now. It's really tough. There's days it's like, why am I doing this? Why did I take on this kind of challenging rebuild? It's probably just because I'm destined to be here is why I'm doing it. I know this is telling me I don't want to do it again, not anytime soon. Man, that doesn't sound good. It sounds way worse now. It's a good game. And may I remind you, and you all know where I went to school? I went to the worst power conference playing basketball school that's ever existed. And you know what happened there? Michael Schoesberry took them to the NCAA tournament two years. So like, you didn't forget how to coach overnight. Yeah, yeah. It's just, I do wonder if he is a really good basketball mind

39:26who is just an assistant. Like, I think that the head coach part has been a real professional. He was in the Celtics locker room, like as a guest when they won it two years ago. Like, he's still very like involved with some USA basketball stuff, a couple of summers about like, he knows his stuff with hoops. I just think that the head coaching part has been blade. I mean, he's been exposed is not good enough to lead a program. He's more than good enough to sit on a bench to be an assistant probably at the NBA level. But the head coaching part stuff where you're throwing your players under the bus and saying, I'm going to march you down to the Red Stars office to transfer or telling fans not to show up when you're winning. And like, what are we doing? Like, it just, it's like, it's like the kind of maturity to expect from somebody on a message board. And like, that's that no program should have to deal with that

40:27and let alone another name. So it's not, that's not good either. Water usually wins. It warps in Rod's wood. It pulls it apart bored by bored. Unless you build with treks. Treks Marine Gray decking is 100% submersible for docs. Built to last, it resists Rod warping and decay in salt and fresh water. For homeowners, that means carefree days on the water, not constant maintenance. For builders, it means trusted performance that minimizes callbacks. Water has met its match. Treks decking, performance engineered for your life outdoors. Visit treks.com slash docs. When you want spring break to feel like in a moment away from the kids to feel like, and your reward status to feel like. Thank you for being a Hilton Honors Gold member. Enjoy your daily food and beverage credit. And now that nightcap in the lounge can feel like, it matters where you stay. With Hilton Honors, earn the most valuable gold status faster and unlock benefits at over 9,000 locations worldwide.

41:30Hilton, for this day, you didn't even get into like the maturity issues with attacking referees back-to-back season either. That too is not good. So I will say, while granting him some grace for what he's had to work with and deal with, I'm still shocked and spend this bad. Yeah. Yeah, I thought it was a good hire at the time. I really did. I would have told him not to take the job because a lot more like Penn State than anyone will ever give a credit for. But I thought it was a good hire for Notre Dame. If they had just gone six and 12 this year and the ACC, like a bit beaten Virginia, and they beat BC at the end, I'm not saying it would be a good season. And it would probably be exactly where we are now. Yeah, I don't know because people are leaving. But then I would give him a little bit more of the benefit of the doubt than what, I'm not a lot more,

42:30but a little bit more. And instead, we're sitting here and thinking, like, are they going to go two and 16 in the league next year? Which, but everyone's like, you mentioned other things. Miami just had one of the greatest turnarounds in history. And they have a first year coach. And you mentioned the fans, they listened. They averaged 5,306 fans per game this year. That's 14 than the ACC. Slightly more than last year, 5,261, also 14 than the ACC. But before that, at least in the ACC era, they never did below 6,000. And they were at a peak of 8,500, 8,260 in 2017, under Mike Brad. So like, again, this is a national trend across all sports in America right now, declining attendance. However, to go from 8,517 in 2016 to 5,306 in 2026, I'm not a math expert, but that's like, almost half your attendance being cut over a decade.

43:32Yeah, that will drop again next year. It's just not, unless they play Louisville and Duke here, you're just not going to draw. So it's tough. I think we can wrap it up on that. Very uplifting. Shut out the women. They play Vanderbilt on Friday. They're in the sweet 16 again. They upset Ohio State on the road by 10 in a game that was not that close. Well, especially when they were down 11 to start the game. It's Kevin McGollis, the L.I.P.s. She was, he was a sister coach on her name when the L.I.P. was a player. Wow. Ohio State sister. If you're watching, watch Hannah Hadalgo, if you haven't, like just do yourself the favor, if you like basketball. She continues to be absolutely incredible. And I realize she wasn't a first team AP All-American. I think the athletic hat around second team as well, but like, it's hard to think that they're actually or five better basketball players in women's poops

44:35than Hadalgo, because it's much back-to-back to Louisville games. Is it three time ACC defense player there? And two time player there? Exactly. Yeah, she's won so many words that, I think Jim Phillips actually had to hold some of them for a photo app at the ACC tournament. So yeah, she's incredible. I realize if they beat Vanderbilt, they will play Yukon and that will, that will be all she wrote on the season, but that it would be, it would be a hell of a check plus for NLIV if she could get to the Elite 8 with probably her worst team after playing me out in the sweet 16, I think the previous four years. But great. It's right in the afternoon, I think, is when that game is. That is correct, 233 game is in Fort Worth, Texas. Yeah, we'll see how that shakes out, but I thought I was impressive with them to win in Columbus the way they did and to do it, after what had been a fairly underwhelming season

45:36relative to the three interns at that program is set. No doubt. All right, well, Matt and I will be back next week with another episode of The Independent. I think there's a little bit more spring access coming down the pipe. Maybe we'll figure out a guess to come on and we'll talk a little bit more insidably during a minute of the teams that are left. So be down to four at that point. So until then, he's Matt, I'm Pete. Thanks for being with us on the lace-up so be independent. When you want spring break to feel like in a moment away from the kids to feel like and your reward status to feel like. Thank you for being a Hilton Honors Gold member. Enjoy your daily food and beverage credit. And now that nightcap in the lounge can feel like it matters where you stay. With Hilton Honors, earn the most valuable gold status faster and unlock benefits at over 9,000 locations worldwide. Hilton, for this day.