New York, New York with Lin-Manuel Miranda

0:00A Love Story is like a podcast. It's beautiful while it lasts. Is that the tagline? It's one of two taglines. Okay. I love stories like a song. It's beautiful while it lasts. Quite a good tagline, I would say. Yes. That's an apt and good tagline. Pretty nail on the head for this movie. That's the best way you could sell this movie accurately. The war was over and the world was falling in love again. That's a classic tagline for this movie as well. I remember that one. Yes. Now, I don't think that represents the film very well because that makes you think that you're going to see a sweeping love story about a functional relationship with a poor romance. The war was not over. The war doesn't end. That is so true. I just think you're right.

1:00I think it's arguable if these characters ever fall in love. Well, I, okay, fair enough. Sure. I think that's part of what makes the movie interesting. I think it also gets to the fundamental brokenness of this movie. What makes it such a thorny tagline? I think they do in a bad wrestler. Yes. But I don't, I don't think they do. You don't think they fall in love? I mean, I think the love is maybe two. Improv the way to the scene where they fall in love and they never got it. Yes. Yeah. They fall into an intense connection, I guess, is the best way to put it, right? Like it's like when, when he's screaming at her in the cab and then she goes into labor, he does react maybe not with the, you know, the sort of not romantically, but like they're, and she, you know, they, they, there's something there, right? Like there is, there's an understanding between them that is deeper than they just don't like each other. But I don't know if I could call it love.

2:00Yes. I think part of what's interesting about this movie conceptually, but is dramatically almost impossible to execute, which leads to why this movie can be such a trying watch, is that I think it's two people who know how lonely they are and know how much chemistry they have together performing and they convince themselves that the other stuff works sometimes. I look, we will talk about it. This movie is about, you know, putting a modern and complex relationship into a vintage setting. Can I throw it? And everyone was like, you know, everyone's here. I was like, I hate it. I hate this. Oh, no. These extra never have met. Right. Why is the yelling at each other? May I throw out my hottest take right off the bat? Go ahead. And I'm really, I was running through my head. I'm like, I think I, I stand by this in the pantheon of Martin Scorsese Roberts and Nero Collaborations. Is this the bottom of the list last Nero character you want to date?

3:01Yes. Uh oh, not only date, honestly, fucking me. I don't want to be on a subway car with this much less watch. And that's where the he did Cape Fear. Like I know that there's Cape Fear. There's the least criminal character out of all of them. And yet all the other guys undeniably are raising Jimmy Doyle off the stage. It's like if the guy from Cape Fear wandered into the bandwagon. Yes. Yes. I mean, like my friend, Caitlin, who is an, who loves this movie, this calls him the scariest man on two legs. That's for letterbox. It's Greece. Yes. And I mean, yeah, I, it fake limping, maybe never even served like this. This is very true. Where do you get that Hawaiian shirt? But you're like every other Scorsese Deneuro character is on paper, the scariest man who ever walked on two legs and get in the execution. You're like, I think I could fix him though. And this guy is broke or you're like, he's charming. There's something. Yeah. Yeah. My hottest take is that I think two thirds of the way through this podcast, you should interrupt

4:03it with the last Waltz podcast because that's basically what happened. He was like, I didn't, I didn't get it on this one. Let me go make the last waltz. Like it actually, it's actually crash in to like wherever you're interviewing for. You know what's wild too? That is exactly what happened basically like direct one to one with Jonathan Demi, making stop making sense in the middle of swing shift, really, which is like the movie that almost broke him. And then we'll be right to the stars in the studio. Can I go make it? I can't take it away from my friend. I can't do something fun. Right. Exactly. And then they rebound hard. I don't know. I think there was more drugs for the New York, New York and last waltz is my guess. There is an effect. I noticed that the end credits there that cocaine has an executive producer. Absolutely. Title on this cocaine executive producer by cocaine. Kade by right associate producer affairs. Everyone is just having like four affair cocaine pictures presents an adultery production. Columbia has shouted out in the credits.

5:05Well, that's Columbia. Oh, I see. Oh, right. You were you thought it was just the country they wanted to give a little. No, right. Ben, they're contributions. Thank you guys. This of course is United artist picture. I don't want people thinking I don't know my stuff. Of course. Yeah, I know because there's right Johnny boy means streets. Travis Bickley. That's a tough cookie. Travis Bickley will say we talked about our ever so Travis Bickley. Jay's. You've only seen you kind of see it. You see why simple shepherd falls for it and misses the red lights. Jake Lamatta. I am also just remembering the very obvious fact that Robert's near played a lot of tough cookies. I guess. Uh, then Rupert Pupkin, who's a dreamboat compared to a lot of these guys. I mean, those were rehearsed scenes. Yes, that helps. No, wait, no, wait. You think rehearsing is helpful? What do you know about this? You don't have any experience with that kind of thing. You love to wing it. I love to move it, move it, and I love to wing it. I was reading a bit of Liza's autobiography on the train down here guys.

6:09And she talks about these scenes and being like, you know, Marty and Bob were very into improvising and, which you know, in my first scene, I just said no. And then they were like, try it again. I just said no in lots of different ways. And that is the first scene of this movie. It's just saying no in as many ways as possible. And then you forgot to write the part where they fall in love. Yeah. So wild. It is crazy what they, yes, that they threw that at Liza. Jimmy Conway, good fellows, just going through the other scary guys. Obviously Max Cady and Cape Fear. Uh, I'd grandpa wore with grandpa eight ace, Ross Dean and casino. What's he gonna fish his grandpa trilogy? To the hero. Yeah. So there's bad and dirty. No, sorry. No, no more with bad is Jack. Bad is the nearest. The nearer. No, you're dirty. It's right more with grandpa. Right. So should there be like a serious grandpa movie like or should grandpa, maybe a Christmas movie like an autumn with grandpa grandpa, grandpa clause.

7:10Grandpa clause. That's fun. Grandpa. And it's just like, you know, kids sitting on his side, he's like, oh, what's going on with you? I like the idea of kids sitting on De Niro Santa Claus's lap and him treating it like any late night talk show interview he's ever done. Yeah. I don't know what he want from. Yeah. Yeah. I try to try my best. What do you want to bring the presents? I'll bring you. I think there's a bad guy in the White House right now. This is this born in the USA, place. What's his podcast, Griffin? This podcast is called blank check with Griffin and David. So true. Blank check blank check. Yes. With Griffin and David Griffin and David. Yes. Well, Griffin, Griffin. David David. Mm hmm. It's a podcast. I'm Griffin. Yeah, I'm David. Yeah. I'm Griffin. Yeah. David stop it. That's the end of it. That's the last time I want to do it. Okay. It's a podcast about filmography's directors who have massive success early on in their career and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy, passion products they want and sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby.

8:13We are talking about the films of Martin Scorsese. This mini series is uncontroversially called podcast fellas. I've never felt more confident about the naming of a series. Yeah, podcast fellas. People think we didn't consider the other options podcast. Podcast. Yeah. We got my memory. Podcast fellas brings me so much joy to say. I was talking to our producer Ben Hossley right before you guys came in. And I argued I said, this is like the only true bounce of his career. This is the only movie of his that did not work on any level when it came out. Sure. And has not been fully reclaimed. He has other financial failures that were well regarded. He has other commercial, the okay movies that were not maybe, but have become canonized. And it's like rude to call like Kunduna bounce. Totally. Because it's like, oh, your Dalai Lama movie wasn't a huge hit. Like it's a kind of a mean thing to say, but this is a classic. Yes, and it is the classic bounce of like they were high on themselves.

9:14They were like, we can do anything. This movie can be as long as we want it to be. We can improvise every scene. We can do as much coke as possible. Like I can have multiple affairs. His wife was having a kid. He was getting divorced. He's having an affair with Liza Manelli. She's having an affair with someone else as well. I think that's baritone. Baritone. Everyone's just being insane, basically at all times. And that's one of those things where you watch the movie and you're like, kind of feels like everyone's going crazy while they're making this. Like it's just right on the surface of it. It is so fascinating to like study the other films that came out in 1977. Star Wars? Well, that's the thing. It's other than Star Wars. You guys have experience in the Star Wars universe. A little touch, a pinch, you know, a little bit about that. But you just read the stories about the making of this movie and you just imagine across town the returns on Star Wars and the people at United Artists going like, cool. So we'll never make something like this again. Yeah. Why would let's close the door on the desk?

10:15What up with this entire like school of thinking is dying? Who's our guest? Our guest. Okay. Today. And this is the first time I'm saying it a little prematurely. You're about to be coined to Disney legend, correct? I am. You are by the time this airs, I will. You're a Disney legend. I have the parking in Burbank that be fitting a Disney. Yeah. What is yeah? What is that? It's basically, I think it's so if you wish upon a story, you get dreams come true. Imperfected. I wish. As some of my allies in the Disney animation feature, yes. People don't know that movie now. You. Yeah. It's not me. I'm going to debose, played me. The, yeah, no, this Sunday, D23, they like, they give kind of the like silver watch. It's like a haul of them. A lot of Disney stuff. Right. Yes. I mean, I thought I'd banked it with odd life of Timothy Green, but Jim, right? I'm pretty, I had to write a lot more to get that. Disney legends. He wants to be one in the leaves. The weirdest Disney legends.

11:17I know all four golden girls are. Well, no, the weird, okay, I will tell you the weirdest substrat of Disney legends is that Disney owns a lot of things that aren't associated with Disney. Sure. So there's lots of like, yes, PN folks. Right. I guess that makes. Oh, whoa. Right. Of course. Right. Of course. Disney legend or whatever. I saw Bob Cossus at the Westside diner on Broadway in 69th Street just holding court. Yeah. That is just a guy I think that anyone wants to talk to if he's just sitting at a diner. You know what I mean? Everyone was just like bothering him and he was just like, yeah, no, I remember the 96 world series, but you know, he's immediately getting into it with them. I guess today is Lemon one more hand. Oh, thank you. I'm trying to the show. Have I shared this story before that I saw Al Gore at Adelta Skylounge? And he was working that buffet and I said, this man would have won the president. If they have see if they had to see if he would have won the president. He would have won the president and see. And he would have won. No, no, he would have won. He would have won. He would have won as a prize like at a claw machine.

12:18No, I just watched him work this room. And I was like, this guy was never allowed on the public stage. And I don't know. Right. He was too boring on stage. If he hadn't uncorked it yet or they were like, this is a little too loose. And it wasn't like he was doing anything wild, but he was like walking through the buffet line. And he was like, mashed potatoes I want to, but my stomach is going to kill me on this one. And I was like, this guy is too private to tell the truth. And everyone was like laughing like you're telling tales out of school. I feel like Skylounge. I don't know. It didn't even feel like there's a cone of silence. A little bit of silence. Like who's in Lucey is the Disney one. That's like the end. Yeah, a little bit. A little bit. A little bit. I mean, I feel weird knowing that. Although it's a very funny story. It was, it was just incredible. Yeah, but I imagine Bob Cossus was a similar kind of, you know, I got to shout out the Disney legend process. I'm really not seeing any like odd names on this.

13:18This is all people where I mean, like, well, this is an anime for probably for her. Yeah, I'm excited to meet her. Or a part of the voice bell. Let's go. Yeah, yeah. Bell and Meg. Oh, that should have been legend. Well, for what? Brookheimer is on your list, which Ross was incredible. As is Dwayne Johnson, the rock, they call him sometimes. Of course, you wrote music for with Moana. Did he? Did he thank you for that? Yes. And you know, what did you say? And what did you say? I said, of course, that's what I'm doing. Alan Thudic, who is a true Disney legend. Yes, Alan Thudic. Who sort of became the John Ratz and Berger of like Disney animation, right? Yeah. Where it's like, let's throw him into every movie. A, a, a servant quantity play. He has certainly put in the war. And in Susan Egan, who is Bell and Megan Hercules and is the best. And my daughter has had a big beauty in the beast phase lately. So I've been hearing a lot of her voice, her beautiful, perfect voice. Still think it's crazy that I'm beauty in the beast though that the book she's so proud that she read is Jack in the Beanstalk. And then the guy is like, yeah, yeah, whatever.

14:20And she's like, oh, no one understands anything in this town. And I'm like, I think they just don't want to hear the plot of Jack in the beanstalk. It's not that interesting. It's not that interesting. A tale. And man, he owns like a bakery or whatever. He's got to make bread and she's like trying to tell him about Jack in the Beanstalk. Not only is that one of the only like real canonical public domain fairy tales that Disney hasn't adapted to a feature length film, but they like announced it 10 years ago. They've tried and canceled it. Yeah, they've tried. There's the Mickey short that I think is part of fun and fancy free. But like they themselves know there's not that much juice in the Beanstalk. They can't fill 90 minutes. No, I mean, that's through. It went to the woods. It's really good stuff with it, but obviously builds a lot around it. But it is the into the woods is funny. And there's the cow, you know, we live into the woods. Yeah. Have we said his name? We did. Okay. Just imagine he's here. He's here for the third time. For my writer. Thank you.

15:20So you're two away from becoming a blank check legend, which is an esteemed class. Oh boy. Yeah. Five times. Five times. Yeah. Yeah. Megan hasn't even gotten that. Yeah. Please. But welcome to the show. Thank you. Welcome back to the show. Always a pleasure. That's really nice of you to say you're quite busy. I feel you're very busy, man. Now, the first time you did this podcast was for all that jazz. I was over prepared. Sure. No, no, no. I was over prepared, but you you brought the juice. I do. Yeah. It is often thrown out our listeners. Especially as they are. Once a month, ring their hands and goes the show becoming too big. Is it just going to be a press stop? And then there will always be the argument of I think when very famous people have come on the show, they have been good. They have been well curated and people will always site. Remember when Lynn came on so prepared for all that jazz as a positive as a, he knew the show he was on. He came correct. Indeed.

16:21We finished recording that and off mic, you told us that you were about to start working on New York, New York. That's right. Yeah. So when we commit to doing this, email you and go, hey, know you're crazy busy. Any chance you want to do this. You make a big confession. I have not seen the movie New York, New York. And this is my, and again, I'm nervous because first time I came in guns blazing with research and books. This is the first time I said yes to you guys without having seen the movie I ever read. You're other parents. Now at this point, your other parents was hooker childhood favorite. Yeah. I love it. I was here to defend Rufio and live live. Of course. I love Rufio. But you did, of course, work in some capacity, not in, not in a huge capacity, right? But I don't actually know. And then you, yeah, yeah. On the musical New York, New York. And I was instructed by the homie John Cantor as, as we referred him. Yes. 99 thriving. Um, don't watch the movie. I told him I haven't seen the movie. And he said, oh, don't watch it. It has very little to do with what we're making.

17:22It was, and he was not knock on the, he was like, he wasn't knocking the film. He was just like, we're doing a different thing. Their goal with the stage adaptation was to sort of tell a lot of New York stories through the lens. And Jimmy and Francine were like one subplot. But the horn player had his own subplot and, and was sort of like a, well, if we, if we had one more workshop, it's one of those things. But it would have become the story of the making of the band in the major chord. And, um, and like lots of different slices of different strata of New York life. And then there was also kind of becoming a home for orphaned Cantor and Ebtunes and just Cantor tunes. Right. Because of course, Fred Abhead had left this mortal coil. Yes. But there was, there was stuff. Yeah, but there was a star that found a home in that show, a song I'd written with John called cheering for me now. Yes. That's how I got involved actually. John kind of sheepishly asked me, Hey, I think the song would work as the opening number. I remember I said, great.

18:23This is a show tune without a show. Like go with my blessing. Uh, and then I said, and if you need any more lyrics, it would be a joy to write with you. And so I wrote lyrics for like six more songs on that thing with him, including like kind of just having tiny touches to like some Cantor and Ebtunes that had never found a home. My favorite one in the show, which is not in the movie is a song called light. It's about Manhattan. That's the Manhattan inch moment. Right. Yeah, that was kind of cool part of the show. I saw this show to be clear. I saw it. It was a very cool part of the show because the show was like incredibly big. Like it had this crazy set. Yeah. And then right in the Tony for production design, it won a one a set design. Yeah, yeah, one of set design, scenic design. Right. And it had like what did Susan Strowman do the choreography? Yeah, crazy. Yeah. Dance number. The hell of the thing. Yeah, amazing dance. We're all dancing on the girders, you know, you know, like the guys up on the girders building the skyscraper. Yeah. And just like this movie, I think there's a great show in there. Yeah, where I had it defenders.

19:24There were there were too many stories and we didn't want to go endless workshops because our composer was 97 years old. And and so like we kind of rushed to Broadway for the right reasons, like out of love. Like we want to make this and we want to make it with John. I think there's a there's a world in which some of those subplots are thinned out in the essence of the show is is in there, but the same issue with the show is the issue with this movie, which I just recently saw, which is God Jimmy's an asshole. Right. And even in the show, you chilled him out a little bit. Yes. Still an asshole. And and everyone who sees the show and sees the movie goes why is she with them? Yeah. And it's tough to shake it. And like I remember when the show is announced, I was like, they can't be adapting that movie because like the fuck that movie can be. Yeah, they were adapting like a quarter of Broadway. Right. You know, because like, like yells at her induces labor. She has a baby and he's like, no, thank you. And I'm like, you can't be ending Broadway shows that way. Like that's not really how you send the tourists, you know, on the 46th street, you know.

20:28And right, obviously the show didn't really do that, but right, it does fundamentally have the thing of like this guy can't get out of his own way. Right. Like the main character can't get out of his own way. And but in the Scorsese movie, it's more hostile even than that. You are like, I wish he'd stop fighting with everyone, but you're also just kind of like, just like personality disorder. Yeah. I also, I was I was thinking about inside Lewin Davis while rewatching this because we cut that fairly recently. We did. I do like that movie. I do. The co-enbrothers movie. Yes. That is a movie where a guy fundamentally cannot get out of his own way. I keep fucking shit off. And his talent is. And his talent. Yeah. The, you know, find his talent pretty early. They do. 40 minutes before we see this man hold a side. They show his flirting talent, Lynn. Right away. Right away. They show how good he is at hollering at people. No doesn't exist. This is philosophy. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Okay. But you're thinking about inside Lewin Davis. I think that movie as maddening as it is to watch the sky fuck up, there's something in

21:32the way, not just the performance, but I think the way that film is written and the way the characters presented where you feel bad for him against your better judgment. It's like the way the character Mulligan character views him, where it's just like, I fucking hate that you have any hold on me, that you have such a sad, sad quality that you make people worry about you. And Jimmy Doyle is so high functioning that you're not worried about him ever. No. So then you're just like, just worried about anyone in his or anyone near him. Kill the fuck out and don't talk to anybody. I do need to call out Marika Brownlee, who works on the podcast, the operations manager, a legend, saw the Broadway production three times. Whoa. I mean, it's impressive given that it did not run for even one year. Yes. Right? Like, yeah, no, we, yeah, let's refer to Jimmy Doyle as quote my husband. Yeah. She loved Colton's performance. Yes. Tony nominated Colton Ryan. Very talented guy. Yeah. I thought so. But it is one of those things like Scorsese's main thought is the dynamite idea at the center

22:37of this movie as he described it to Liza Manelli was I grew up in New York City, seeing Hollywood make films about New York City. And those two realities couldn't have been more different. What was outside my window and what I saw on the screen. And I wanted to put the real New York inside the fake New York. And you're like, holy shit. That should be the greatest movie of all. You're telling me Martin Scorsese made that with De Niro and Liza Manelli at their peak. At their peak? Yes. I mean, and he made it in between Taxi Driver and Raging Bull. So he was at his end last Waltz is, you know, sprinkled in there too. Like, so isn't this good? I, and, and, and guess what the title song is? You've heard it. It's a good song. We talked about on our fucking loser episode. Many Heckerlings loser about how that is a movie where it spawning teenage dirtbag by Weedis is the weird example of a song so largely outshadowing the movie that it came from.

23:38I don't know if we failed to mention in that to New York, New York, New York. At its best, this movie exists as a seed for that song to exist. A song that it's impossible to like consider had to be created. A song that feels like it was placed on this earth like water. And you know the story that like out of spite. It's a spite song. It's a spite song. It's a spite song. So I, and Kendra's told this story many times. I'm not telling tales out of school. Kendra and I have Fred and John play the songs they've written for the movie and the world goes round happy endings. Banger, banger, banger. And they wrote another song called New York, New York. That was like given to them. It had to be called New York, New York. They were threatened with legal action from the on the town team. And so this is a town actually called theme for New York, New York. And they play it and the Nino doesn't like it. And again, have you heard what's on your own cares about because it's the one his character

24:39supposedly wrote, right? So he's like, smart. Not good enough. Does this song like, do we know this song? Like does it exist? I don't even remember. Right. I remember. But it was sort of like they basically left the room, Marty very apologetically, apologetically asking them to try again on the theme. And then they like, fucking actor telling us how to write a song. And they banged out New York, New York in 45 minutes. And he's just like fine. He's just like, it's just the first four notes of the melody of the song. Right. It's like it's right. It's right. It's just him playing the first four notes until he starts the melody. And they just bang the shit out. And it's, and that's why it's in New York, anthem is it's made to say fuck you. It's got an eye walking. I'm walking. I want to go. You want to go talk? You want to go talk? And they write the anthem. The anthem that like they play Liza's version when they lose and Frank's version when

25:39the Yankees went. Yes. The anthem. I think it's rude that they do that. I will say why I think they should play Liza's when they win and Frank's when they I was on the floor. Yes. But that speaks to the cultural memory of course. Frank's right control of the song. Yeah. Sort of. And if you ask Fred and John, they're like, we're very grateful that he recorded it and made it to hit. But like he changed all the lyrics. He real wrote it to the lyrics. A number one day and right. That's it. He did it his way. He just like seeks us. You just wanted to get some some A1 in there. Yeah. A little bit. I think he's just top of the heap twice. I mean, top of the heap. He's just kind of going and that's the classic. But look, I mean, we've talked about Snotchern. We even watched Oceans 11. We did. The Snotchre version, which is a bit of a snooze. We had a great nap on it. We did. Yeah. Sleepiest movie ever. You know, he's one of those guys. We're like, well, this guy's sort of, you know, sort of an asshole, but then you're all like, I just kind of fucking best Jesus Christ. Yeah. So good at this.

26:39Like, you know, he can't really deny it. But I love Liza's version. Oh, it's incredible. It's even more. Right. I mean, I defend this movie and I've seen it three times now. Okay. And, congratulations. The first. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. The first 90 minutes, I'm like, I like this movie. Am I sure I like this movie? And then the last hour just like pays off so great. The last hour is the reason it's a movie. It's the reason it's a movie. And by the way, they shot that first. Yes. I think they were a little more together. Yeah. And then the physical sequence, Vincent Manelli is visiting his daughter on set and like, you're fucking Marty's like, I've never been so happy. Right. And I'm sure Marty also was like, I want to impress my like icon that I worship like and I write and also, yeah. And then they just forgot to write the part where they fall in love. So they fun for their way there. For a fucking hour. In a super prover place, the fact that the first 90 minutes are such a slog makes the last hour even more like redemptive.

27:43But I don't think the movie couldn't be more functional up until that point and still work. But I find amazing is that they cut, you know, turning like a four hour version. Sniffing and doing like it's perfect. Yeah. And what I find amazing is that what they cut for theatrical release was happy ending. This is what's crazy. I was like, there's the whole first third. Yes. And then we start with the audition, like literally make a meat cute at the audition where he's got to go to the audition. Yes. And begrudging the companies in there and they fall in love because of their talent. It is amazing. Something like how much of this long movie is Jimmy fucking up a meeting. There's like eight different scenes that's like, let's meet with this guy and Jimmy's just being a pig. You won't believe how much he's going to fuck this up. They're, they're like, I think we got a lot of like three of these meetings. Yes. You're asking me about the differences, right? Yes. It was released, it was released around two and a half hours. Yes. Yeah.

28:43It was released right after Star Wars and they were panicking and they were like, you got to just cleave 30, 40 minutes off of this thing. So they release it a little over two and the two, it's basically the only difference are two sequences. Happy endings, which is like the reason this movie is so gorgeous. It exists to get to happy endings and her singing New York, New York. That's why you make this movie and to cut one of those two things out is absurd. And then the whole extended sequence at the very red night club where they kick him out in the tunnel of the light bulbs and everything, which I would argue if you're going to include one sequence of Jimmy fucking up a deal, that's the one to keep. They cut out two of the best things in the movie, which are both like 15 minutes long. And they just, right. Because they were like, it's slowing the movie down. Yes. But as you're saying, right, the slowness had actually already happened. But no, they released it at 155, then they cut it to 135. That's what the European cut, which is certain it's now, because the 155 cut was only out

29:47there very briefly. Right. It was thrown away when the thing basically immediately bombed and then it didn't have happy ends. And then they re-release it in 1981. I guess sort of post-raging bull of like, okay, okay. Marty and Bobby like did a good one again. Can they redeem this? Can we redeem this one a little bit? And by the 80s or what people are sort of like, I get what you were going for, because it comes to kind of thing. Happy endings for a second though, because that last sequence is such a perfect dream ballet in the style of Vincent Manelli's great movies, an American in Paris. That fucking dream ballet is the reason the movie exists. Totally. It's why that movie won Best Picture. Yeah, the bandwagon where life is more. They put on their quote unquote show. Yes. And it's eight musical numbers that have nothing to do with each other. But then there's the incredible basis for Michael Jackson's smooth criminal like that. Unbelievable detective sequence. That is the most stunning thing you will ever see in your life. And is also what's amazing about those dream ballas is they're the movie in musical

30:51miniature. And what's incredible about the happy ending sequence is it is an incredible movie in miniature for a movie that doesn't exist. Exactly. It's because that's not what we've seen advertised. Yes. It's the first thing movie in a life. Oh my God. If the denier it would hurt and met cute at a movie theater, like the beginning of happy end, like I watched the show that movie, like I'd watch anything that happy ending is alluded to. Something you know, it cost an incredible amount of money to make it the happy ending sequence. And it is you're right. Like it was one of the first things to do. Yeah. If you're listening in a home you didn't own it, it's just start the movie at whatever that time. Can we get them the time code to just start it at the musical sequence? I do. It's the huge issue, of course, that this movie is not really streamable. I just don't have to watch it this about three and a half hours ago when I sat down to watch this movie that it's just nowhere. It's nowhere to be found. I had to watch some weird boot like Russian streaming version. And I was very unclear of even what version I was watching. I guess I had a limited edition blue rate that I had never watched.

31:56But I bought it back when I was actively. I, you know, like you're a system being like, probably he's got a disc right? I was like, right. Yes. I'm fucking I too. Like, yeah. And I then you have that. Like that blue rate came out like 15 plus years ago. It's out of print. It just got reissued on 4K. Which came out like, I have that to it. Does that have his video introduction? It does. He's basically like, we were trying something. Yes. Sorry. We were trying something. Sorry. Sorry. Your favorite friend group is back. FX's adults follows five roommates living in New York, leaning on each other. To navigate love, work, friendship and family. While tackling pressing questions of your 20s like, what if the person who inherited your fake ID is cooler than you ever were? Why does being around your family make you regress into your worst self? And how do you tell your roommates that you have other friends? FX is adults. All episodes now streaming on Hulu.

33:00I mean, that's absolutely how I was introduced to this movie was in like documentaries about Scorsese or the history of film or TV specials or like biographies or whatever. I just remember watching some TV doc thing where they go like, and then of course in 1977 came New York, New York. And I don't know if it was anything about Scorsese, De Niro or Manelli, but just all three of them in talking heads going like, we were trying something and people got angry because it also has become part of the narrative of we gave the filmmakers too much power. Uh-huh. That was a mistake. Yes. So it's like in the heavens gate. It is that they do very much right. Source server like those movies of like, okay, New Hollywood's over. Guys, time for you all to have some guardrails. I can tell you I'm going to open the dossier here that Martin Scorsese one day opened the Hollywood reporter. I guess after he's made taxi driver. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, he's made mean streets. And I guess he's maybe made Alice doesn't live here anymore.

34:01Just reads that Irvin Winkler, the Hollywood maker producer, like, you know, big name wants to make a movie about like the big band era called New York, New York. And he's just like, I want to do that. I like, I love big band music. I grew up with it. I loved, you know, jazz and like my parents were obsessed with Django Reinhardt and Stephanie Gropelli or whatever. And like, I, my parents, like, you know, like pictures of my family members, like in World War II uniforms, like having come, right, like this is all in the soup for me. And I fucking love old Hollywood musicals. Like I love in Sentai Manelli. Like I love all this shit. It's what's awesome is he basically, despite being the king of New Hollywood, right? Really? Really? No, but beyond that, he's also like, I got to Hollywood too late. I grew up wanting to make a big old artificial Hollywood show movie. And I got here and I got stuck being the fucking figurehead of the Lousy New Hollywood moment.

35:02Like it's so fun to think about that now when we all idolize what he represented. Well, but that's like what is what's happening right now with Chris Prenoland where he's like stroking his chin being like Crimson Tide is one of the great films of all time. And I'm like, I agree with you, Chris, but clearly you just wish it was the 90s. Like, you know, it's my, and I love the movies you're making right now. And he's like, that was a good era, you know? Squirce as he shows up in the 70s, he's like, I wish it was the 40s. He says the movie he's thinking about the man I love, which is like a Raoul Walsh 40s film noir, which has all these Gershwin songs in it, Road House, which is like a Richard Widmark movie. And then obviously the Manelli Technicolor films like that Valentine Dahali, what is his idea? It is so funny to hear him say that in these interviews. This movie is a Valentine to nobody. Like, I mean, that's, I mean, I guess it's like, like, stuff like happy endings. Yeah, a little bit, but mostly it reminds me of that one line in Xanadu and don't come from me, Xanadu lovers. They're out there with on roller skates. It's like the 40s meet the 80s.

36:04And it's like, I don't think those were meant to meet my guy. Like, I don't think they're actually too great taste to don't taste great together. And that's Xanadu. But like, they say it with such pride in the text of Xanadu. And that's sort of what happens here is like, I'll do my, that my kind of thing, but I'll use old school Hollywood sets and I'll use the daughter of Judy Garland star of these Manelli movies as like a proxy for that era. And frankly, when you have like, De Niro, like making shit up on an old set with, lies in Manelli there, the deck stacked against De Niro. Like he's the one who looks like he's in the wrong movie. He does. He's the weirdest fit for this movie. Yeah, it doesn't really work as, as much as he had spent like this early part of his career, I feel like kind of being able to do anything. Well, it's like sandwich in between these two guys together creating two of the greatest performances in the history of cinema. The leading man roles that will be studied by everyone forever.

37:09And that go against all the roles of the kind of character you want to place at the center of the movie, a character that no one would root for all of that. And this is the one where they just clearly think they're untouchable. And it is bizarre because watching these early films, we just keep being like, God, De Niro was so fucking hot. He was so handsome. He's so charming. He's so charming. Sure. It's hard to like place yourself back in that headspace where you were like, he was like exciting and dangerous and full of life, you know? And so like we were saying in the taxi driver episode, you're like, you kind of see it. Moments, you kind of see why civil shepherd is tricked by him. Yeah, you kind of see how Ripper pumpkin could maybe get a good five minutes together. He says like 20 words and Godfather too. And you're like, that's fucking young Brando. Who is guy? Absolutely. But there he is. The Moisler fascinating thing about this movie to me. He's the Rizzler. He's the Rizzler. He's the Rizzler. He's the Rizzler. Don Rizzler. Can someone please make a poster? Oh, he is Don Rizzler.

38:10What if I rot? Yes. Right. Or put the Rizzler in. Yes. Yes. Anyway, he's great. Also, grandpa class. No, I was going to say the fact that this movie is developed basically concurrently with taxi driver. And Scorsese even said that he thought he was going to make this first and that because taxi driver was lower budget, suddenly the money came together quickly. I think after the Neuros Oscar win and that got fast tracked. Can you imagine the reality in which the order of these two films is flipped? Because if he makes this before taxi driver, there are rails. Probably they let him go or just taxi driver even happen or it doesn't happen the way it did. It just fuck it up so badly that no one ever write. Do you like the film? Some Martin Scorsese? I am a big fan of the film. Major admire. And you like you like taxi driver say or some of him or whatever. I celebrate his entire catalog. Well, it's right. Right. Well, his yes, as we sort of set his pitch here is like it'll look like a film. The four is the eight from the four days, right.

39:10But it will have the sets will be fake, but we'll approach the characters in the foreground like a documentary will combine the two techniques. So we're kind of like, you know, we're bringing in like Italian near realism into like a, you know, phony looking Hollywood movie, brilliant, right? And I can imagine the producers being like, yeah, yeah, that'll work. Okay. I mean, sure. And that's going to be expensive, huh? And he's like, yeah, it's going to be expensive. And he'll be like, okay, well, show me Robert De De De Reunice. I mean, Ellie, though they're famous, like, that's good, right? So and she can sing and he's learning his methods. So he'll learn the saxophone or whatever. Those two stars on paper, you go, it has to work. You have the two people who most embody the two sides of what you're trying to do. James Franco and half the way let him. What's the record? Right. Do you remember what it peanut butter baby? Well, for five minutes that that was working, I remember when it kicked off and they had like the video where they were, I was like, yeah, this is all right. Yeah. And then like, they are the ones that I want.

40:10Five minutes later, you're like, it's kind of fucked up. Yeah. Oh, that's gone on here. That is one of those things that I don't remember. No. Like generally, like you sing and I'm like, right, of course they did that. But it's just gone. But it's a similar mindset of like, it's, they're just different. Yes. Yeah. But everyone loves both of them. So right. It's nice that our generation had a Rob Lowe sings with snow white, you know, that growing up as Oscar nerds, you're like, oh, and the worst stuff happened before I could many. We had crash dance. Yeah. We had the recent dance. Seth McFarlane singing, we saw your booth. Yeah. Remember that. That was quite an opener. How do you feel about him singing a Muppets? Bad. Okay. Bad. Someone on the Reddit today was saying, David's going to make fun of this and Griffin's going to argue. It's a great idea. It's weird. But I mean, clearly he loves the Muppets. I assume that's why he's doing it. So it's an omnis. He's got a beautiful single. Seth McFarlane is releasing like a Muppets album, like where he sings like Muppets standards,

41:10I guess. Because, you know, he does like old books. He does like Sinatra, right? Right. He's got a good creator family guy and he's a Boobley. He does. He does. He does kind of know. He's a bit of a Boobley. He's a bit of a Boobley. He's a man who's a Boobley. Boobley. Yeah. I've never wanted to hear these songs of the Muppets release the book of Star Wars. I can't bash anyone's side projects. You do what sounds good at the time. I don't know. I was releasing a book of tweets back then. That is true. That was the thing to do. Squarespace, even beyond the like 40s means the 80s thing was like, I'm, this film is going to catalog like these two characters across decades. I want the style of the movie to evolve. Yes. He had that notion. There'll be a 40s movie. Then there'll be a 50s movie. Insane. We're going to study the styles of how sets were built, how makeup was done, camera movements and whatever and do all of that. And then the whole idea of like, how do you place a documentary inside of this is very

42:13strange because he would cite Italian neorealism. But this is not what neorealist films mean. No, no, this is not what they feel like at all. Like that's them. No. Yeah. It feels a lot like an attempt at doing Casavetes, who was obviously one of his actors. Yeah. Sure. But Casavetes, it's always the, the fallacy that his movies were improvised. When in fact, there was a lot of improv kind of Mike Lee style used in the development. Right. And then the script really, really locked down. Yes. Instead, Marty, as you say, makes taxiderm before this because the funding comes fear quickly. Wins the Palm door at the Cannes Film Festival. And so he says he crashes into this movie with just like the biggest ego. There's a script by Earl Mac Rock, route, route, rock. The guy who eventually wrote Buckaroo Bounds, I write. Just the wildest two films for one person to have written. Right. They hate the script. Obviously, Marty Martin, who is a Marty collaborator, comes in and works on it later. But the true answer is that there's no script.

43:15There's just not a script. Like five different people work on it. Five different people work on scripts. Yes. And Danero keep going like, not good enough. Like, no, funny. I think about that all the time. That's why I need to be a Jagger. I love that he had to think about that. That's all. He also talks about a new Jagger about that. No, what do you say? It's like, well, you know, you want things to be at a certain level. Oh, good. I love, I love they didn't deny it. I agree. Yeah. Tentos down. No funny. He also says during that bit that Mick Jagger also at one point went Diet Coke and someone just like brought one to his hand. He's like, it's just another plane of existence. Yeah. Yes. Shine a light coming to this mini-series. We're going to do something. We want to talk to the Jagger. I want to talk about Mick Jagger. Yes. You want to talk about Mick Jagger. Who's papering sleeves for you guys out there? Yeah. That's some real Patreon father went to like a stones gig when they were brand new. This is a story he used to tell, liked it when they're whatever, when they're nobody's.

44:15It's snuck into like what at the green room like to try and like hang out with them and Mick Jagger just went, fuck off. And he was like, okay, so it was always. He was always on that point of existence. He was at it. So month before the film was going to shoot Earl Mac Rock, Rouch, sorry. I think it's Rouch. Yeah. He's like, I quit. I got to do other shit. I can't deal with this anymore. So I got a bonsai calling my name. So then Marty says, Bobby and I had some ideas about improvisation. And we felt like we'd known Liza for about a year and deadly words. Maybe she'd be comfortable doing it. Marty comes into basically structure the scenes, I guess. But he said, Marty Martin says everyone was just trying to improve it by improvisation. All the time the film never really had an ending. We came up with like a dozen endings and never like found one that worked. Or when, you know, it went, Claire helps Jay Cox, who's a big Marty collaborator helps.

45:18Helps. Can I interject for one second with a Liza and Liza's story? Please, please. Again, I'm also still with us. A lot of these people are still with us. Yeah, Liza's still with us. And again, I was reading her autobiography on the way down here, the salient chapters. You have to understand how much Liza was not an improviser. Like she, there's an amazing video. I'm sure it's YouTubeable of, um, Kendra and, uh, singing their own songs. It was like a songwriter's on songwriting series. It had like eight people and everyone realized no one cares about songwriters singing their own stuff. But it's Fred singing like some of Liza's standards. Liza with a Z ring them bells. And when you watch it, you'll be like, holy shit. Fred ebbs every mannerism or Liza's mannerisms. Like he taught her how to sing. He taught her how to use her hands. Like they were really like instrumental in helping her find her own persona distinct from her mother, which was a huge shadow.

46:21It's amazing to watch Fred Ed perform because you're just watching like a man performing as Liza Monelli, but it was him first. I tell you that story to like imagine then being thrown into to a situation where it's just like we're going to make it up when like she has been so like she is a like an eight shows a week performer. Yeah, she's like a problem. You're going to work it out rigorously until it's perfect. Yeah. Working with Bob Fossy like these people we heard like the other people fucking reverse. Um, and, and all that to say, I think she holds her own beautifully. She's extremely good in the movie because she's a good actor because I think she's such a sympathetic actor. Yeah. That because she's under siege in this movie, you're just so. The old strike against her is that like the character friend scene would ever fall for this guy's bullshit and yeah, you never really buy it. You never really have to happen because the movie has to happen. I mean, you saying that that when they ran the first scene and she said no and they were like you can't just shut them down immediately.

47:21So the scene keeps going. It's like no, but she had the right improv instinct, which is play it real. Play to the top of your intelligence. I know you want to guess and but maybe the way this scene moves forward is you reject him and the guy has to get more creative. Exactly. And instead the guy is just grabbing her wrist and camera. Now an issue also that they have according to Martin is lies that had a commitment to go to Vegas or something. One assumes to do a bail show. And so they just have to start shooting. They don't have a script like what they never figured it out. But they're like, well, we got to start. De Niro, famous Lee, the worst interview of all time. God bless him. He's basically like, I practice really hard like on the 10 or sacks. That is his takeaway from this film. That's the hardest great. He's like, I didn't want to look like an idiot. And so I really learned that shit and I think I did a good job on the 10 or so. Every time he picks up the sacks, I was blown away at how much he sells it. That's like Claren's fucking Clemens and he looks like he's doing it. It's really, really good. I want to just throw out Julia Cameron who was, where says his wife at the time did a

48:25lot of writing work on this. She gets a special call out giants, special thanks to Julia Cameron standalone credit card at the end of the movie. I just an interesting size for me. I got the backstory on all of this. A lot of heavy size. She gave birth to their daughter, Demanica, in 1976. The way in Alam go west. Absolutely. And what was the mascot? What's the mascot of the West? Cardinals. I don't know. I visited the campus once. It seemed really nice. When I was a pre-fresh, the reason I went to West is because I snuck into a Hitchcock class and she was a TA class. I snuck into it. She was graduating the year as a pre-fresh. Oh, well, that is cool. I know as much with Demanica Scorsese in a discussion of bunny lake is missing. And I want to go here. Michael Bay. Michael Bay. Michael Bay. Their friend of the show Katie Rich went to went to Westland. I thought you were about to say friend of the show Michael Bay. Friend of the show Michael Bay. Call us. Friends to show race and Tory and Jordan fish. That's a segment that could go on far too long. Sure.

49:25But Westfield. But basically, the way Marty puts it, I've read in here, is like, he's like, I know she gives birth to my daughter and I know we're getting divorced and I know I'm not going to be present for this kid. Like this is all happening in his head. And it's so in the movie. It's so in the movie. Right. Like, it's so like, you know, he's just like, I'm a piece of shit. Like I am abandoning a child, right? You know, like, it's so obviously in the movie. And it's funny because in like the Mr. Scorsese doc that they did recently, like, Domenica's there and she's like, we figured it out. We figured it out. But like, I had to basically be a grown up. You know what I mean? Like, and he, as did he essentially. Yeah. Like, we figured it out. Yeah. It's so good because everyone's like, you know, happy to be candid at that point. But by the time they did that, I just, I think it is sometimes overdiscussed the Catholic guilt and Scorsese's work because that's a very obvious read. I think what is kind of equally present is him just kind of constantly trying to study why the fuck are men wired this way.

50:28And for the first half of his career, he's studying that while he's making all of the mistakes, he's doing them in real time. And he's kind of putting himself on the slab and being like, the fuck is it with our brains? You know, not to be like a binary about it. And honestly, to his credit, the moment, the pregnancy storyline starts, you're like, okay, now we're in a movie. Yeah. Something is happening. It's not just a non courtship of negging for 40 minutes while they like to or yeah, it's like, oh, okay, I can tell he is not going to be father of the year. If he's even going to stick around to the like, there's something happening. And, and something interesting is suddenly happening with D'Anero's character because he's saying, yeah, I'll be there. Maybe have the bit like there's there's something going on. That's where the movie really starts. And I remember seeing this at the Metrograph, maybe 10 years ago, and you get it's playing to a lot of silence, you know, and there's music in the movie, but there's not even a

51:28lot of musical numbers up until that point. There's like two or three in the first 90 minutes. And you get to that scene in the delivery room after the character is just like kind of hit his bottom. And the audience starts like gasping at the shit he's saying. And for the first time, you're like, he's bad in a way that's dramatically interesting. Yes. It's no longer just frustrating. You got your avoiding making eye contact with him. Totally. And I think that guy that they depict for the first half of the movie is a real guy. He's a very specific guy. He's well observed. He's just a guy you run away from. You don't want to spend time with him. He's not shitty in a compelling way, which is what these two guys are usually really good at figuring out how to put on screen. There he is. I can't see you. Where are you? Oh my God. David, my glasses are so dirty.

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53:31Up great today with Zeni, go to Zeni.com slash podcast and use code podcast 15 for 15% off your first order plus free shipping and all US orders over $65. The style sell out so don't sit on it that ZENNI.com slash podcast, promo code podcast 15. Your favorite friend group is back. FX's adults follows five roommates living in New York, leaning on each other to navigate love, work, friendship and family. While tackling pressing questions of your 20s like, what if the person who inherited your fake ID is cooler than you ever were? Why does being around your family make you regress into your worst self? And how do you tell your roommates that you have other friends? FX's adults, all episodes now streaming on Hulu. One more thing from what I do think is interesting. She said my singing performance is very different than anything I've done before because I studied the way big, big band singers sang, even how they held their hands.

54:36You didn't go out as the star. You went out as part of the arrangement and I went so overboard that I almost backed up too much. And I guess wasn't being kind of like dominant enough. I don't know what she sort of means by that. But she said she'd studied it all as a kid and it was very fun to like tailor herself to like big band era singing. I don't know what your take is on that. Let me back up even just a step before that, which is the other tragedy of this is Corsese's only quote unquote musical is it's not even like a musical. Not a recall like there's not all diagetic except the musical number. Even the musical number at the end, it's her in a musical or in a movie musical. And when you think of the movies, he reveres and the way they go from speech to song. Like think about like I got rhythm in an American in Paris and you got the little kids going, I got. I got it. So fucking delightful the way they manage that leap that we take for granted when we go to the theater, but it's really hard to do in a movie of like going from hey, how you

55:39doing today to you know, so it is I need six eggs. Beauty to be. I need six. She needs to get that woman's back as someone who feeds his sons essentially six eggs a day. I understand her energy in that song. It is the number. It is the barrier to entry for some people, right, with musicals that they just are like, I don't buy it when they start singing, even if it's on Broadway or whatever. Like it does it does feel like the hardest thing to get people over. I know what it is. Imagine that same opening sequence, which is genuinely stunning. Like it is Corsese flexing on us like hundreds and hundreds of people and it's deep. It's like victory day and then there's the arrow pointing at De Niro in the crowd and so incredible. Imagine they'd gone inside that ballroom and De Niro was playing sax and singing a song. Suddenly I love this guy, even if he's a total piece of shit, I'm only playing like performance. Like if you just had the just the wherewithal to like lean all the way in and make a fucking

56:43musical, it is what I find most fascinating about this film. There's the sort of anti musical that people attempt a couple times a decade that is, well, have this barrier to entry, what you're talking about, David. They just think it's corny or it strains cajulia. They can't buy in at that point. So can you make a musical where it doesn't feel like a musical and it doesn't have the tone of a musical structurally that's like this. And I feel like those are often made by people who secretly hate musicals. There's a bit of a possibility to the number one. Or they love it and they're ashamed. Yes. I don't feel that he's ashamed here. It feels like he's trying so hard to prove a different point. Even though he loves this so unabashedly where you're just like you wish someone could have grabbed him and gone like Marty, if these dialogue scenes are 90 seconds and you have five more numbers that actually play out in full and you go off in the first 90 minutes, people might enjoy watching this.

57:43Liza just give the flesh up behind the scene. He is of course married to Jack Haley Jr. the son of Jack Haley, the 10 man who starred in the Wizard of Oz with her mother, Judy Garland, which is already crazy. And she's having an affair with Mikhail Bershnikov who might be the hottest person alive like right then. I feel like you've been making this case a couple times for you. He is unbelievable. And like you're at the critic circle where he presented right. You know, he presented at the New York film critic circle last year. And he's I mean, how old is he like in his late 70s or whatever, you know, and you're still just kind of like, I mean, he's 78. You're still just kind of like, God, this is like the coolest fucking guy in the world. Like this guy is really hot and really hard. I'm old enough to remember his art concepts in the city where like is that British and a cough? And then he leaps across a pile of garbage and like, oh my God, he's the hottest old man alive. He was the hottest with the scarves. Yeah. That showed him dirty in my opinion. Absolutely. So so she's already in a dalliance with him.

58:44And then of course, Scorsese and Liza began a romantic dalliance. And then of course, passionate talented Italian man. Yeah, he's magnetic. And of course, then he also directs her in the act, which was a sort of failed show. I really want to discuss this. Yes. Okay. This is not in the duck at all. Right. They just they just say we're sticking to the movies. Um, it's a canter and ab show. It's a canter and ab show. They're in seven. They haven't inherited like Hamlet's was going to do it then didn't want to do it. Right. And it was initially called shine it on. Yeah. Something like that. And again, like you have to understand canter and are like theater parents. Like they truly take care of her. And there's a very I'm holding my copy of colored lights, which is canter and ab sort of um, oral history of their own stuff. Like they did a book where they just talk about their own things. And there's a very sweet quote where Fred says something to the effect of she was very adamant that it's of course as he could do anything and he had to direct the show even

59:46though he had never been near theater in his life. Yeah. But the sweet thing he says is like I think she kind of figured we could get her out of any jam. Which is like, you know, and I think she knew she was on a subconscious level. She was in a emotional mass a drug fueled mass with him that needed detangling. She brings him along for this and and Fred tells the stories. He literally would go to rehearsals, film it and go home and edit it to try to figure out how to direct like theater, which is why it's not how you're supposed to do it. And by the way, and canter goes to great pains in the book to say like listen, he was Marty was a wonderful guy. He was not malevolent. They were just really bad into drugs. And I think that was his way to try to get his head around how deep in over. He was like, let me do the one thing I do know how to do and maybe that will give me a clue on how to do this. And they tell the story in the book. I recommend the book on sale of the drama book shop. Okay. And also we recommend the drama book shop.

1:00:47A wonderful. Yes. Thank you. Where I live and live upstairs like the Phantom. But they tell the story about like them getting to rehearsal. Again, this is like Broadway rehearsal at like two in the afternoon. And they say that they were in this horrible wreck and her neck hurts and the more they ask about the wreck, the more the story starts to fall apart. And it's just sort of like no drugs. Entireness got them. They're laid and she was very embarrassed that she was sort of in it so deep and like it's it's very heartbreaking. And she in her book, she says she's the one who had to fire him basically because she's the one who insisted on him. And then a garrer champion kind of came in and steered it towards a show like being an actual show. The thing Kendra and I, Kendra and I were just so embarrassed because it was like not working on fundamental like this isn't even like I have a sheen of professionality because no director has touched this yet. And then you know, steers are towards her first her third Tony win. She unbelievably wins a Tony yes for it.

1:01:49Despite it largely being forgotten and sort of a flop, right? I do want to note that it's ticket prices were $25 which at the time was an all time high. And now that would be considered quite cheap for Broadway. I don't know if you guys know that. But yeah, it was a bomb or whatever. But it's just so crazy to think that in the middle of all this Marty tried and failed to direct a Broadway show, which is hard to do. Yeah. Like directing a Broadway show is not something you can phone in correct? Correct. Correct. Now if it is something you can phone in, I'm available. I'll do it. Dave, it's ready to phone shit in. If it's that I show up to the theater and I'm like, everything looks great. You guys are beautiful. When I get home, lies, it tells a story that apparently on the first day Marty comes in and says, where is my dressing room? Oh, sure. And you don't have a lot of this back. No. That's not how it. We're directors of get a dressing room. They just hang out in the stage of interest office. There's no space. Right. You know how when you're making a movie, your dressing room has to be in a special truck,

1:02:51right? Do you see any space for trucks in this little building? That's how much he didn't know what he didn't know. Yeah. I mean, because I don't, he loves musicals, but I feel like he loves movie musicals. He doesn't really talk about, despite being a New York boy, being a New York theater boy. No. And this way that he's got, like, lies a, right, white hot lies. Can we just break down the sort of where lies is at for a moment? And it's not like he missed, well, he does miss user and then he tried to make her improvise an entire movie, which doesn't seem like the right, but she's still good in the movie. But it doesn't feel like he didn't know what he had on his head. And then when it comes to the actual musical, ask musical that finally starts in the last week, it's extraordinary. He's channeling her dad. She's channeling her mom in a way that feels like positive and cathartic, not in a, like, doesn't feel ghoulish or creepy. Yeah, it just feels like, yeah, she's stepping into these shoes and they fit just fine.

1:03:53And she's extraordinary in those sequences. I mean, like she'd grown up in the studio system. And that's when they're at their best, like both of them are at their best. Like his directing is just peak and she gets to do what she does, which is seeing like her life. Yes. Like she's falling apart. And like, you can't make anything. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you did. She's also such a good example of the, like, good singing, his storytelling kind of thing, where you're like, she is conveying things to you with every inflection, with every gesture. It's not just about hitting notes. But the thing that's so fascinating about her to me is she is like a razzle dazzle star in the 70s at a moment where Hollywood is kind of rejecting razzle dazzle. And they're like, razzle dazzle is for TV. That is for variety shows. Movies don't have space for this anymore. Like, straight sand, tone down the razzle dazzle when they get to the 70s. And they're like, I make comedies now. I make romantic dramas. Yeah, I play human beings.

1:04:54I play, right, right. And then I'll do concerts. I love it. Yeah, you got to split these things up. Well, she had the advantage of coming into the movie business with like the one director who came from theater, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Bobby Fawsey, who also, but also knew how to cut a 70s movie. Right? He split the half. Yeah, it's what I would say. Such a unique star is that she is the center of a musical that somehow figured out how to serve both sides. It's what's funny about what Marty's trying to do where it's like, you know, Fawsey kind of already did that, but like, and it's like, it's not as artificial, but like have very basically already did what you're thinking of, which is sort of like a more real feeling musical film, like, you know, like, you know, but also was like a little unreplicatable. Yeah, well, specific to the structure of that show itself. And the text of that show. Her other films, if you want me to bring them up, Griff, are Lucky Lady, which is the Stanley Dona movie with Gene Hackman and Bert Reynolds. That's like a prohibition like comedy. I've never seen it. It's a famous bomb.

1:05:56Like, I don't know if you've seen it. Lynn, I mean, you know, and I didn't have the DVD of that one. No. And then a matter of time, which is the movie that her dad directs that has candor and Ebb songs and like old Gershwin songs, she plays herself in silent movie as well. Well, yeah, but I'm forgetting the cameos. So I'm saying like, you know, that where she's playing like an Italian like Duchess or whatever, I've never seen it either. Her dad's very old when he's making it. And, you know, I think it might be his last movie or close to it. So it's not like post-caperate. She hasn't really had hits. No, but she's famous. Yeah, yeah. And she's done a lot of the things. I don't know the fact that she's two strikes in when she needs another win. And this is a miss. And then she doesn't do anything for four years. And then she does, I mean, obviously she just, she doesn't do any more movies. She does other stuff. But then she has Arthur in the 80s, which I feel like does give her a bit of a new lease. Arthur's four years later in a huge hit. Yes. But then the next credit after that is Muppet Sigmund had cameos herself three years later. Then three years after that, she does rent a cop.

1:06:57Then the year after that, she does Arthur two on the rocks. I mean, she mostly is a Broadway star. Totally. Right. And this kind of disabused her on movies a little bit. Yeah. You know? Certainly, there's, I've never seen stepping out, which is kind of like the late in life, Liza, legacy, cool. It has been Broadway performer gives up tap lessons to a group of misfits. There's a 90s, meet the 50s in that one. A little bit. They should. A little bit. That's what happened to me. She replaces Gwen Verdon in Chicago on a rock. No, this, I mean, that's an incredible story, which deserves like a second, which is that Gwen Verdon basically, the queen. Right. She's with Bobby Fossy, serial flander, serial drug taker, but she's like, we're doing Chicago. He's a bit of a Jimmy Doyle except. He's a Jimmy Doyle. It's very talented. I believe one of the most talented people in life. Right. And, and she's like, we're doing this. It's double act like her and Cheetah Rivera. She inhales like some confetti on state.

1:07:59Like as a freak accident, where she inhales some confetti in the set, like it damage, seriously damages her lungs. Eliza, who basically was like my theater parents are candor, eb and Fossy are like, she basically says, can I go in? Like can I just go in and and she even confesses in her autobiography. I knew they'd make a movie this someday. I thought if I went in, they might see me for the movie version. Some point down the line. She didn't know it was going to take 30 years, but she says, and I don't want to disrespect Gwen. So they don't even put her name on the marquee. She goes in as basically like the most famous swing performer of mine. Right. Like it was like a week to learn it. She did it for five weeks. And it was just like this open secret like yo, Eliza's in the Chicago right now. But it gets a little understudy. And they would surprise people every, because it's before social media too. So they would say like tonight, the role of, you know, and you'd feel the audience will be played by Liza Menel. What? It is very cool.

1:09:01Because it was Jerry Orbach, right? As well. Jerry Orbach, Cedar Rivera. And then she did, you must know a little bit about it. Just and then we can, you know, but the, the ring, right? That's the candorab thing. The, which reunites with Cedar Rivera. And it's about, they own like a roller skating rink. And it's like dilapidated. Do you know about this show? Of course, I can. It was so starlit express could fly. Right. An 80s somewhat forgotten. Like have they ever done this one at on course? Yeah. You know, again, like some of these things are just seeds for your favorite thing. It's like this movie is a seed for New York, New York, the greatest New York song of all time. There's a song by Candor Nebb and they're called a quiet thing that I think is the best Candor Nebb song of all time. It was, we read it at the vows for my wedding. Like it is, it is one of the most beautiful songs you'll ever hear and Liza sings it. Happiness comes in on tiptoe. It's a quiet thing. It's great song. Actually, we put that in New York, New York too. It's again, it became like an orphan show for all the great Candor Nebb songs that, uh, didn't have a prominent home.

1:10:02Huh, Liza. I, I think you're right, Kripp. Like it does sort of, she's not like it tops her being in movies, but it does kind of this experience. She was just sort of like, maybe that's not my primary medium and things like Arthur are like a much lighter lift for her where it's like, oh, you want me to be like the fun gal next to Dudley Moore. I don't have to be like singing my heart out. I don't need to be the big open wound of the movie. I also, I think you sang Sims like Marty comes in with this pitch and Hollywood's like, that sounds incredible. The other part of it is I think the movie musical in the 1970s, the studio probably felt about it the way they feel about the superhero movie now where the public keeps being like, we're maybe over this and they're like, how do we get you back? This was kind of our bread and butter. And if something like cabaret works, they're like Travis Bickle was the musical you guys. No, but they're like cabaret works and they're like, okay. You do so like them sometimes. How do we replicate this? What is the element that makes it work?

1:11:03This is what we're best at. We can clearly also done the shoot horses, don't they? Which is not a musical but has again that kind of like we're mixing realism with movie mania. You know, can we do this in a more structured way? They shoot the film at MGM. Old Hollywood master, bars 11, does the sets. He had done sound of music, right? He'd done Scarlett Empress the Von Stemberg movie. Like he's like to Marty, like a king, like West Side Story. So he's like, I want to recreate the mythical city, you know, the high curbs and like, you know, what else does he want? You know, like everything's just going to look a little fantastic. They had Georgia on money. Oh no, right. The shoulder pacts and the wide ties Georgia on our money saw this movie and inspired him to make his clothes. Yes. Seeds. Last low covats shoots it. Obviously he shoots last wall to the score says the same time this is the only time that they work together movies. Those two movies unbelievable.

1:12:03Yes. And you know, he moves the camera a lot because he's Martin Scorsese. Obviously he's always fucking. He walks Manelli and said like hold my fucking steady cam. Yeah. But yes, obviously on every other Martin Scorsese movie before now, even Boxcar Bertha, he had done so much pre-production work on like storyboarding, how every shot's going to work. Everything is laid out, even the Alice doesn't live here anymore, whatever, where it's like very simple. They are they they know exactly what they're doing. This is the genre that requires the most prep. They throw it all out. They have no script and they shot like a million feet of film or whatever, right? Like they just like that mean, you know, and they went eight weeks over budget, 14 weeks for into 22 weeks. Winkler had never made a musical before he didn't realize that they take a long time. So they madly under scheduled. Martin Scorsese in retrospect, I don't think we should have been given that free a hand. That's his quote.

1:13:04So even he's like, I need like some guard rail. I think it is telling that this is the only time he's gone back and like reworked one of his movies. You know, he's very adamantly anti-directors cut and he's like, a try to fight for that the first time, but be like when the movie is released, that's the movie that the culture forms a relationship with and it is what it is. And stuff like Gangs in New York where there was a lot of interference, but he's refused to ever go back partially because I think it's too raw and partially because he's just like is what it is. And this is the one time where like three years later, he was like, guys, can I just try to explain myself a little bit? And it does feel like it's because he knows he shouldn't have gotten away with it. There's one moment where he's shooting a scene with Bobby and Liza. It's gone to like nine o'clock at night. They're on the 22nd take. Everyone's exhausted. The next day they have a day shoot or whatever. It's not like they can, you know, the problems are multiplying. Winkler says, we've done 22 takes. Do you think you're done? And Marty's like, I just, there's this tear coming out of Liza's eye.

1:14:06I think two or three more takes I can really get it. Can I go for the tear? And Winkler's like, go for the tear. I like, that's what this movie is. They just keep thinking they're going to get it. Happy endings, perfectly scheduled, shot and 10 days. They did it right at the start. That worked great. And so of course they called it off the film. Right. Like, you know what I mean? Like I'm just like in the world where they're watching this movie and go, oh, it's a mess. Audiences are going to hate this. I don't understand how they don't get to the conclusion of the movie starts one hour eight. We're cutting all that shit out. Obviously we keep the big musical number. And I think it speaks to how allergic people were to old school song and dance at this moment in movies. As Lynn says, the original, the sort of assembly cut is four and a half hours long. They cut it down to about two, 45. You have three editors, not, not a good sign when you have three editors. Marsha Lucas has a supervising editor credit, which is separate from the three credited editors. George Lucas watches it as they're all friends and says like, I think you'll make more

1:15:06money with a happy ending. What do you think? He's like, that's not the movie we're making. And he's like, okay, I can imagine that they'd ended up together. That's the thing. It would actually work. He's right about that. I also think you were saying, I think it was Marty Martin said like we never had an ending so we didn't know what to improvise towards. Yes. I think the ending to this movie is correct. It is totally the whole thing. I keep thinking about La La Land with this movie because La La Land is like a high functioning version of the other seed. It is. Right. I know how we could make this work. You like the couple and you like them together. You like the couple, but you understand eventually they're consumed by their artistic passions. It drives them apart. It's a shame that they end. They're basically like, we both kind of mastered it now. Bobbi DeNero had explained jazz. That would be great. Conlet. To live in LA. To explain music to you. To explain music to you. The most he feels like he could do that at A, B, C, D. You know, yeah, right. Like La La Land, I feel like it's Chisel just kind of being like, can I just kind of

1:16:07make that a much more functional thing? I can't remember. Yes, and it does work. The first time I saw this was either right before La La Land came out or right after La La Land came out. And it was just immediate the connection of like, oh, he clearly spent 20 years thinking to himself, could I make a version of the movie that works in New York, New York? Right. Yes. And the ending of New York, New York is, I think, really the right ending. The plot of the film is that Jimmy Doyle, who is, I guess a veteran, although you're right, is he? I question it. I question it. I question. He shows up and he knows, he knows guys. He knows guys. He never, he never, he never see him in uniform. It's like a VJ day celebration. And he's in a wine shirt and everyone else is in uniform. Everyone else is in uniform. He's in uniform because she's like a USO performer. And he just will not stop pestering her. So she finally gives up a phone number. We see him strike out on like three other women first.

1:17:08And then he hones in on her because she looks lonely. And it's like he's more offended that she rejected him than anyone else because in his mind, he thinks he was taking pity on her. And then he doubles down. So it's the worst start for a relationship possible. And she is. Let's see. I'm just a mute. It's a shit. Yeah. Yeah. It's nasty. It's a me nasty. But she's not into him. And there's a certain point where she starts laughing at like, this is a gregious, like it's getting absurd how hard he's trying now. But there's no point where she's like, I don't know. He's kind of cute. Like she's playing it real. It's also the vibe of this entire movie, which is like the scene feels five minutes too long. It gets uncomfortable. It kind of gets somewhere where you're like, well, this is sort of authentically difficult and nasty. And then you're just like, can we move along? This movie is still happening. Does not have that many scenes. No, all the scenes are so long.

1:18:09The scenes are 10 to 15 minutes long. My wife was just like, what is this movie about? And I was like, I don't know. The worst guy. He's not nice. It's about he's not nice. So they get in a cab and like they go to an audition together and they kind of get put together as a boy girl act because they're both talented at the same time together. And I guess they sort of artistically vibe. But I feel like even that is actually very inherent to it. No, they stumbled on that as well. Yeah. Yeah. That was the point. Yes. It's more just kind of like, okay, well, you two can kind of be a double act. And then they're just on the road for like a ton of people. Yeah, not in New York. New York does not take place in New York. No, 100%. It takes place in like empty, not New York, North New York. Like empty ass like ballrooms. Yes. And they're just kind of bickering or fighting with someone else. It's like the grandest sets you've ever seen. I do want to call out the kind of continuation of the meat nasty, which on paper sounds like a meat cube is like their friends hook up.

1:19:12So then they're both kind of waiting for the other friend to vacate the room. So then they run into each other in the lobby of the hotel and he's trying to skirt his bill and she's looking for him. And then she drags him into it. So then he's so angry that she exposed him that that's basically how he loops her into the audition because he's trying to steal her cab. So like it's like a complete like in a charming movie. It's like, oh, the series of misunderstandings that lead to them in the back of a cab together. And instead of just like this guy fucks every single thing up. He's been staying at like seven different luxury hotels, dining out on this idea that he's a veteran, pretending he's gotten a wooden leg and PTSD and all of this. It really does make me think he's lying about all of it. Yeah. And he doesn't have much of a backstory. So we don't really understand why he's like this. But I just want to clarify. No, yeah. No, clarifying. No, that the audition isn't even like, well, he warms her up to the idea of maybe if

1:20:13we tried playing together. Even that is a thing they fully stumble into. Right. Yeah, she's like, play a quieter song. He's like, fuck you. I'm trying to help you. And she's not supposed to be here. I cannot overstate then how much of the movie is him being a jerk before she goes into labor. It is a full hour plus. Like there is not really much movement in the plot. No, but we discussed at this point is the first 30 minutes. Right. And then there was an hour before the movie really kicks into gear. Right. And it's stuck in a cul-de-sac of just these people. It's you're at a bar and you watch two people fighting and you're like that. When her agent showed up, I was so grateful. Right. Like a guy who seems to have a lived experience. Any outfit. Yeah. He's great. I'm not going to tell you where she is. I really like her. I like being her agent. You're like, yeah, a person. You know what I think part of the different actors in the American play. Obviously. This is very primus. Yes.

1:21:14Liza, but you know, right. Hold on the band. If we're looking at the the Lewin Davis Jimmy Doyle spectrum. Right. I think part of it is that like Jimmy Doyle is such a know-it-all. He's so convinced that he has everything figured out that he's the most talented guy. And the two things that trigger him more than anything are if anyone upstages him. And if anyone dares suggest there's anything he could do to improve his act versus Lewin Davis kind of knows he's fucking up. He's frustrated at the world, but he's just like, I need something to make it all click into place for me. This guy is just like, immovable. Right. Well, what do we do when we see like broken men in media like we can understand them if are difficult men in media, I guess like if they're a little bit broken and we understand the wound, we can empathize. If they're super talented, we go, oh, they're so talented. The shame they're so right. They're wasting this talent. Yes.

1:22:15And by being self-destructive or whatever, Jimmy Doyle has neither of these things. And because it takes forever for us to see his talent, which is considerable once it shows up. But by then we hate him so much. And we never see the wound. We kind of grifting everybody all the time. I just saw a man hunt for last night. They were screening the new cut. Which adds in happy endings. Just adds in 40 X, 12 minutes of New York New York. No, but there's a line in that film where William Peterson is trying to pathologize dollar hide. And it says like it sounds like you feel bad for him. And he says something to the effect of like, I'm allowed to like empathize with the child while still hating the monster that child became. And this movie never re-invigorated. No. And it's not like you want some crazy backstory dump. No. But you need something. No, it's not like this movie is fixed. He's like, I'm by the way, my dad was a jerk.

1:23:16Yeah, I'm a probably lonely ex driver. It's so humorless, dude. It is. Yeah. It's not funny at all. But he's just funny in this era. This is a funny. He can't believe it's funny. I think so much of the scene in the Irishman where he's mad that Stephen Graham's wearing shorts, which is one of the like greatest scenes. Corsese, yeah, a little late. And I don't count for traffic. And like I was like, now there's a meeting that goes wrong that takes too long in a Corsese movie that I could watch on YouTube once a day, right? Just like to Nero giving this guy shit. You're right. Like, and like, why are all those scenes in this movie just kind of like painful and like kind of just you're just like waiting for them to be over like and it's because they're not very funny. I also think there's a contrast between the care. Corsese is taking to make a beautiful movie and the nothing of thought that has gone into what they're actually behind them. All the work has is the set. Yeah. And actually, this is a good transition.

1:24:16I did get an email from the the the homey John candor. I asked him New York, New York memories like the movie you have. Yeah, ask him about the movie. If it would be fun if he was like, you know, Broadway, battery park, he's just telling you. Yeah. Candor served in World War II. He is one he'd be one of those guys at that party, one of those hundreds of guys. That party. And he said it was not a terrible experience. In fact, it provided one day of the most glamorous Hollywood experience I've ever had. I had never visited or worked on a huge Hollywood soundstage before in Scorsese. He had reinvented 1945 inside this great big building filled with people, lots of soldiers in uniform in the proper haircut, a big band with the visual double of Tommy Dorsey leading it. Everything felt exactly like that year. I was in the service then I walked inside that building and was kind of overwhelmed. It was real time travel. Then I walked out of the main door and onto Sandy Road where it was 55 years later and I jumped back into 1945 and then jumped back into the dusty present. It was bizarre, thrilling and confusing.

1:25:20Um, all the served in Korea as well. Although I think he didn't actually go maybe into like the battlefield or but he was on active duty. But he, I mean, like again, a testament to how much care is in every frame of the look of the movie and then they just said we'll figure out how they fall in love later. Well, this is the other thing. It's not just that Scorsese was given too much rope, but at this moment, Dinyoro is the new Brando. Dinyoro is the guy, right? Yes, sure. And there has to be this feeling of like whatever he's doing is going to be compelling. And even if you're sitting there watching it, you know, on the set, you're like, I bet it edits together. This guy can make anything. Well, three editors tried. Yes. I mean, he is compelling because he is Dinyoro. He is compelling, I guess. Yeah. It's not my favorite Dinyoro performance. You just want to get away from this. Poster take. Yes. Yeah, that's the problem is he feels so unfixable. Right. And unformed by Dinyoro standards too.

1:26:22I think so apart from he really plays that saxophone. Yeah, except when he's playing sax, there's Jimmy Duel. But like part of the other extended sequence that gets lifted for the European cut of the movie is the, it's the fight in the red room and all of that. But also when they start writing the song together was one of the things they cut out at one point where he's like noting her lyrics or whatever. He's like beyond the fact that it's exciting because you're starting to hear the familiar strains and it's really exciting to watch today because you were like, oh, they're in the process of writing one of the most immortal songs ever. It is the best encapsulation of their dynamic within one scene. Yeah, another scene that's very, very painful and tough is their wedding where they like, they like break the window of a justice to the piece. That's maybe the only moment that made me laugh. It's funny because it's the glass. It's pain. Yeah. And then he's like, yeah, can you get a smerry? It just like takes some sense like, wait, is that the proposal to me?

1:27:24Is this it? This is the conversation about us getting married. But it's a hard scene, obviously. And then like eventually we just built to him berating her so insanely in a cab that she goes into labor and then he's like, okay, okay, okay, okay, take sure to a hospital and it's like, by the way, not raising. I couldn't be more out. Which fair, he knows himself, I guess, enough to be like, yeah, no, not going to be a present father. And then she becomes famous because of a song because of, but the world goes around. I'm telling you the plot of the movie is like as much as I can. Yes. I mean, it gets incredibly repetitive while looking really, really beautiful and you just watch as she clearly knows what she's doing, but doesn't have the confidence to speak for herself. He is so overpowering and so repugnant that it feels like anyone who kind of sniffs around them is scared off. And people usually try to leave with some parting words of like, hey, lady, you know what you should do? But it takes a while for anyone to actually kind of break through.

1:28:28When she tells him that she's pregnant, he does not seem very excited. He doesn't know how to process it. He runs away and then acts like he's doing a bit of him rewinding it, which is a little bit charming. It's the closest he comes to being like funny to her in the movie. But then I think the movie comes alive at the scene in the delivery room where it's like he starts, she names the kid Jimmy Jr. The kid is later in the movie played by our own Winkler's son, which is also fascinating. But Winkler, yes. But he starts the scene getting angry at her for not letting him weigh in on the name of the kid. I mean, yeah, there's no world in which he is a halfway decent human. Totally. It's like such assholes shit and it's such a bad argument. And then he basically gives it up that he doesn't really care. And he was looking for a reason to be angry. He basically starts breaking down. It's like his only moment of vulnerability in the movie up until that point where he doesn't

1:29:31respond to something with escalating anger. He like just stops. And even when he's chewing her out for naming the kid without him, after him, he's doing it in a very quiet and tense way, which is a little interesting. And you speaking about him not being as funny as he usually is in this movie, David, I think a lot of funny, De Niro, like the short scene in Irishman, is the slow burn? Is the he's starting so small and so quiet. Yeah. Right. And you're waiting for it to pop. It's just a close-up right away. Beginning to end. He's nipples Greg. You want him to bring up it. He has nipples. And then as well. I don't know. Can you milk me? Things have to come in two separate beats. I think that scene is really fascinating because he basically starts admitting, I know I can't do this. I know I'm not going to raise this kid. I was trying to come up with an argument to get into a fight to get you to kick me out. Is like what he lacks the emotional intelligence to actually say.

1:30:31And you watch this guy just like completely crumble and tap out. Now when she goes back to New York, he stays on the road. They get a replacement singer. Because they have an affair together. 100% right? Yeah. He's got a one night with Mary Kaye place. Yeah. He's a bad guy. He's a bad guy. There's also a scene where he kind of has a lingering look with the young woman in the Harlem club who sings Honey Suckle Rose who like cut it if I'm wrong, but I think was De Niro's wife. Correct. Yes. Correct. 100% Yes. So there's an old like yeah, like they kind of give each other a look. She goes family night, huh? So it's like also, you fucked her too. Like, yeah, I think that's sort of the she's in taxi drivers. Well, Diana, but and like, is that where they met? I can't remember. I believe so. I feel like we talked about it. I can't, but you know, but yes, so she's basically in this, but it's like beyond a cameo because she like belts a number of beautiful. Yeah. Sounds great. Yeah. Which also, but it's like all our punish it like anyone in his or he, right? Yeah. He's either gotten to fight with or had sex.

1:31:33And it's also no, and his peak is that he's going to own a club like which does feel like what Jimmy's going to be capable of. Like she becomes a movie star or whatever. Like she becomes like a record selling sing, you know, right? Like, but he's going to be like a good musician who owns a club, but they all get on a stick night call. They each have, they each have one half of a song. Yes. Right? She's got New York and he's got New York. Exactly. Sorry. Right. They thought the city is nice. Your name is from. Yes. No, he comes up with the riff. Yeah. And then she tries to write these lyrics that he's really dismissive of. Yeah. He's banging on shoes. Right. It's the vibe. It's enough to make him like a one hit wonder, which he then takes all the way to owning a club and being a minor celebrity, which is all, I think this guy really cared about. But it's, it's a structural issue in the movie where we're saying like, Marike place has a really good number, right? Diane Abbott has a really good number. Liza like lacks many numbers until the end because she has all the numbers.

1:32:38Yeah. But part of the conceit of the movie is, well, she's sort of a little trepidacious. She was sort of like a lower tier USO girl. It takes a lot for her to come into her power. So the movie's depriving us of Liza doing the Liza thing. It does kind of yada yada that part for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Super sad. There is one other number, which is the Harlem number where Deneer is playing with Clarence Clements' character and they just fucking blow. And it's pure jazz like crazy hot jazz and it's just no one singing. It's just great. And he shoots the shit out of it. Yeah. And I was like, oh, Jimmy could just keep the fucking saxophone. His mouth on the movie would be golden. There's like an alternate like human centipede version of this movie where they send me to a third gen. He's glued to the saxophone at all times. And then she's like, yeah, we make our marriage work. Yeah, it's fine. He's one-toot. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

1:33:38Exactly. I mean, and I remember the show had like the Harlem concert. Yeah. You know, the track that guy and he was like the San Juan club. But like you were trying to incorporate right like all of New York's myriad musical movements in this way that made sense. And this movie is. Yeah, it does not really that number is the only kind of head nod towards that direction. Right. This movie is a more. Well, I don't know what I mean, I don't know what I don't want to sound. It's a fascinating film. And it looks incredible. And there are parts of it that really sing that you guys are talking, you know, they are noting. And if it wasn't such a punishing first half, I think the second half could be like, you know, whatever. Like there's probably a better version of this movie, not with more stuff though. No, no less stuff. And yet the thing they took out was the rock thing. But you know, it's such an anxiety dream of like, man, we've got everything right. And the one thing we don't like, it's like it's like the nightmare of you go to school

1:34:43and you have not studied this task. Like, yeah, it's still it's okay. It's the day to shoot. Did you write the scenes where they fall in love? But but you do hear about movies where it's like, do you know they shot a completely different version? Yeah. There's a whole hour they cut out that was supposed to be the opening or like this character just got removed entirely. Like it feels like it needed like major, major surgical intervention. But I think they just had to start making it. Is what happened? And then they made it. Yeah. No, sure. Yeah. And I think they even did some reshoots like based on, you know, what they were cutting together, but not much. I mean, this movie has an ace in the hole, which is that the last thing that's going to happen is Liza Menali's going to sing New York, New York. And it works. Theme from New York, New York. That's right. Theme from New York. Theme from New York. Maybe you are watching. Yes. It'd be funny if every time. So now try to be like, anyway, this is a little song called theme from New York. I need to say it for a little verbal one. Theme from New York. Come on, New York.

1:35:46And it does send you out of the theater, satisfied at least from that. Beyond that, she follows that up by standing him up and standing up for herself. Yes. Which is like Jimmy is not, that is triumphant. That is true. It loses. The evil has been defeated. Yeah. Sort of. Even when she sings that triumphant rendition, he's like, you do it different than I do it. He's incredible. He's like, he's noting her after. It was Liza Menali singing New York, New York. He got like three fights to add in an A number one. I mean, Variety's review was like Menali tears into the title song and it's a wowser. You know, like that was the good reviews were mostly like, I loved it when she sang. She's great at that. They reviewed it like Mission Impossible final reckoning where they're like, well, at the end, he does climb on a plane. It takes two hours to get there. But there's like three swipes. He has it. And that final scene where he calls the movie Sappy Endings.

1:36:48And she goes happy endings. And he goes, yeah, yeah, right. He says you sang it differently. And there's one other one. But it's like incredible where he just he cannot give her an inch. He cannot let anyone have anything on him. Oh, he says I'm proud of you in a way. Yes. Yes. In a way, I'm proud of you. Right. You know what? You're going to find this funny. I'm almost proud of you. Yeah. The film cost $9 million, which is a lot for them. It gross 16. So it didn't even like flop in the terms of like it couldn't, you know, made its budget back. But obviously the expectations for it were high and critics didn't like it. Can be says it runs out of steam and calls it a film buffet on pop film form. You know, like, but you know, like they're sort of calling it out. It's kind of like we get that you like old movies. But that doesn't mean you made a good one. Ebert gives it three stars, which for Ebert is like a pan. Like, you know, because Ebert loves, of course, as he's so much and it's just kind of like

1:37:49never really pulls itself together. Zero Academy Award nominations, which is bananas because it has the song theme from New York. It has five banger, Cantor Nebson. Here are the nominees for best original song. And I wondered if, you know, the homie John Cantor was going to complain about this. But I guess he, you know, he's nothing but like things to say. He's a right. Candle on the water from Pete's Dragon. That is quite a good song. I love Lee Song from Pete's Dragon. Lynn Cantor on the water thoughts. Sure. I, I, okay, okay. I'm not going to fight you. I, I also don't remember Pete's Dragon. That's more of my sisters around. I can't say I remember the, the movie or the song very well. I think the song is better than the film. Sure. And Bonnie Prince Billy did a cover for the David Lowry version. That's very good as well. My pick for winner from these five, which unbelievably does not win. Nobody does it better from the spy who loved me, which is a great James Bond song that rocks animals. Right. Like, nothing wrong with that one. People me that beat New York, New York, I would be like, well, it's not as good, but I get it. That was it. You know, Carly Simon, obviously, but it didn't win. It did not win.

1:38:49No, you've also got the slipper and the rose wall. He danced with me. She danced with me from the slipper and the rose, the story of Cinderella. I'm sure that must have had a bang and interpretive dance. I'm sure no one knows what that is, but it's a British musical from the seven. Up there with Crash. Yeah. Yeah. Someone's waiting for you from the rescuers, the Disney mouse movie. Don't care for that song. I don't remember that song. I don't remember. I only remember down under I'm an 80s child. Absolutely. I agree. Better movie. We didn't have a song. I don't think. Probably. I might have slipped in some didry-doo at the end or something. I don't know. Right? Did they do something? Yes. They must have. And the winner was you light up my life. Oh. Which, you know, but that's an infamous one. That's right. Yeah. No, no, no. That's one where you put it on and my parents look at each other and go remember. And I get like kissy. That's what I was like. Of course, it's from the Joseph Brooks kind of like weepy. You light up my life. I'm starting. That ended through the years. If you want to like sort of light candles for my parents and say they say leave us alone, put on like through the years Kenny Rogers, you light up my life.

1:39:51Those are like the 70s jam. That is a movie that was a mega hit based on the song basically. The song propelled it to cultural dominance. Yeah. I still think there's room hot take for theme from New York. New York. Some of the other songs they wrote for this movie. Right. I mean, don't you agree? I mean, the world goes round. Is a great song. Also in an objective world, this movie like deserves a cinematography nomination and art direction and they are direction and stuff. I mean, I think obviously that this probably just like the kind of. Terrible taste in everyone's mouth. Yeah, exactly like well, no, that was a flop. So we'll just ignore. I mean, I'm like, that is the Star Wars year, obviously. So that's winning things like production design. You've got close encounters that year. That's a big one. Can't deny that. I mean, but a funny comparison point is obviously Annie Hall wins best picture this year. And Annie Hall is a movie where they cut like 45 minutes out of it because it originally

1:40:52had like a murder plot and things that they were like, we conceive this and it doesn't work. So cut it down to the only stuff that is good. Yes. It worked. What New York New York should have done. Sure. Yeah. Of course, as he basically says, like maybe if I was a European director, I could have gotten away with that movie, but I was promising them something that I couldn't deliver, which was kind of this throwbacky musical, right, this kind of magic thing. He's like, it was funny that we released an 81 and got better reviews for basically the same movie, although they had put back in the best number. But a week after they opened, he says he thinks Star Wars opened after them. It actually opened before. He doesn't really remember. He was high on code. I mean, sorry. And he's just like, we just look so old-fashioned compared to Star Wars. Like Star Wars is just so crazy and new. And we're like, Bap, Bap, Bap, Bap, you know, like we got these old sets and everyone's just like you're this ain't it? It's why the panic last minute cuts happened is because they saw Star Wars in theaters

1:41:53and they were like, we suddenly look fucking ancient. We know this isn't going to fly with people. Guess who did love it? Jean-Luc Cudard comes over. Philanction is like, I loved, you know, what pieces of shit those characters were essentially. I love that it was about jealousy and envy and all that stuff. And again, I think Marty is not like, oh, he's right, I'm brilliant. He's more like, right, there's a version of this kind of thing that could work in the hands of that kind of a director. But I was, yeah, I was fighting off more. I could chew. He doesn't like this movie. He's like, I still don't like it. In a way, I love it. In a way I can see there's some truth to it. But like he's like, I don't, you know, he doesn't think fondly of New York. I mean, it's his idea and so many ways. Yes. And both professionally and personally, like he's also going through the worst. Right. Exactly. And it's every, it's not like the movie's about a different thing than the things he's going through. It's, I think the other times he ended up getting attacked, it was, for things he cared

1:42:54about more, you know? Like he does not discuss the experience of living through last temptation of Christ as easy. No, but it was like, this movie I tried to make. Right. Right. I knew I need to make this. I think this was like, this would be a fun idea for a movie, right? And then everything torpedoed. It does get foregeld and globinominations for, you know, musical a comedy for De Niro and Liza. And for song and for song losing again to light up my life. It was unstoppable. Unstoppable. Liza loses to Diane Keaton. Lauderdale, Lauderdale. And, and De Niro loses to Richard Dreyfus. Right. Who won the I. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. So anyway. David. Yes. Red alert. Uh oh. There's been an outbreak. Biohazard of a new Patreon series.

1:43:58It's contagious. Oh, that's so true. It's, uh, it's been cooked up in the lab for your pleasure. From the fine folks at the umbrella corporation, we are covering resident evil, the film franchise. Yes. We've got the first franchise six movies. Yes. That beautiful second franchise. How many six seven? It's got a, the one. Oh, it's got the one. We'll be covering all of them on Patreon doing commentaries on, yes, the Resident Evil apocalypse extinction after life, Retribution, a final chapter. Welcome to Recruiting. This is an exciting time. Uh, is that Craig or friend of the podcast? Yes. Resident Evil coming out. We thought this was a good opportunity to revisit the history of Resident Evil movies. Why not? Why not? Why can't we? Why can't we? We can. Check in for that August 1st. It's going to be running all the way through November 1st followed by your March, Manus winner Dracula Dracula himself. That's so fun. So that's great.

1:44:58That's great. Thank you. Thank you so much. Uh, the box office game Griffin, if you would like to look here about it. Okay. Number one of the box office is not Star Wars. That is number two. Just to give away what month is it? This is, uh, basically 4th of July weekend, uh, 1977. Okay. Which like what the fuck by the way, opening this in the middle of summer and saying it doesn't seem like a good idea. Star Wars obviously opens May 22nd. Yeah. So the Star Wars has been out for good six weeks and I think is, is doing okay business. It will return to number one. This is not its final. Yeah. And indeed, in return, it's number one, uh, then to very next week. But number one this week is, you know, jaws, what else is that guy written? Let's make anything that guy has fucking written right now into a movie. Oh my God. It's not orca is no.

1:45:59Orca wasn't even eventually novel. Okay. Okay. Orca was just like, what's another kind of fish that bites you? Is it about a creature? Yeah. I think it's about the water. It's about the water. Is it the deep? The deep. There we go. It is the Peter Eates film, the deep, the starring Robert Shaw, you know him from jaws? Yes. Like the nickname, no, T. Yeah. Jacqueline Bissett. Yes. I've never seen it. Yes. I, but it's like a scuba diving movie. I think yes, they go quite deep. Good for them. Louis Gossett Jr. Is there Eli Wallack? I mean, this sounds pretty fun. There used to be a kind of good formula. Yeah. It's just so funny to me that they're just like jaws hit and they're like, you there. It's like, what else is in that bookshelf? But look, there was, there was like a crighton feeding friends after Jurassic. Sometimes this happens. Yeah, we're in the Colleen Hoover Sons right now. All right. So number two is Star Wars. You're a fan. Dan, you know, like Star Wars. You've seen No Dig fan. See it. Yeah. Yeah. Your, my youngest is just on the original trilogy. How that go over. Great. Yeah. And now he knows what everyone's talking about. And you started understanding English.

1:47:00Started 4.5. You were like, we're doing 4.5. Yeah. Right. His brother's seen everything. Okay. Right. Yeah. Who's this favorite character? Was he scared? I mean, you know, you're the younger's like, oh, and like, I remember, I have video of my oldest like seeing the twist of like I am your father. I didn't just know. How is that robot his father? You just looked really confused. He rejected it. He rejected it. Whereas Frankie was like, I knew this. Yeah. Like there are kids books about Darth Vader's little golden books. Yeah. So no surprises for him. It's probably Luke. Luke's probably the favorite. Luke's pretty great. Luke's pretty great. Who's your favorite? Oh, I don't know. I do like the snatches of occasional Spanish. You hear a job of the Hut say like unapu with us all. In return of the Jedi, which is like a horror solo. I'm partial to Hatties. I just like to write a song that Hatties for episode seven. Right. That's right. I mean, I remember the Sunday. I guess I never thought about that it was in Hatties, but yeah,

1:48:02I'm partial to the Spanish adjacent that is Hatties. I remember. Unapu with us all. Yeah. Yeah. I like that plate. What's her name? Luke too. I don't know. We got to get her back in movies. Yeah, we're smooth. I was thinking about her recently, actually. She's, she remember how she has a crush on Chewbacca? She loves him. We were all just kind of like, yay. Star Wars is back. And then we're all like sick of it. Let's get it back. Let's go on. It's all, everyone forgets how triumphant it felt when Force Awakens came out. I'm not claiming that everyone in the world love that movie, but there was a general consensus. It's like, right. It's nice. It's safe again. Star Wars is backward. Yeah. Mask cannot have really tiny eyes. And then she like zooms in with them. Her goggles are huge. Yeah. They imagine it was like click, click, click, click. And she opens up a case and says, we'll talk about this later. Yeah. There's a lot of that in Force Awakens. Don't worry. We'll get to that. Yeah. Hey. Number four at the box office is not a movie I know, although I know the title.

1:49:03So I'm going to look it up. It is. I'm going to guess it's a thriller. It's based on a novel. Okay. This is calling it a drama. Okay. David feels defeated. Okay. All right. This film is best known as being part of a package deal. 20th century Fox's American distributors arranged to ensure a film, the company had little confidence in a little film called Star Wars, which also be exhibited. So these film Star Wars and this film are released together. This film was a flop. It got poorer views. It was seen as long and bloated. It's based on a novel. It's a movie star's Susan, a young Susan, Serandon, a different actress, Marie France, PCA. I don't know, man. I probably recognized this title because of that Star Wars trivia. I feel like I remember that story. It is called the other side of midnight. Yep. I don't know. Yeah. It says it's a romance of passion and power. Isn't it funny to consider that their movies like that that people work just as hard on as the greatest films ever made and it only exists as a footnote of, hey, you know,

1:50:06they bundled this flop with Star Wars. Like that's that movie's entire legacy. That is true. Number five. What is a legacy? What is a legacy? And that's a Disney legend asking that question. Number five is another film that I feel like for a long time was famous for coming out against Star Wars and flopping. It is a masterpiece. It's a great movie. Sourcer. It is William Friedkin's story. BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM, like famously got its lunch eaten by Chubaka and company at the time. What year is Heaven's Gate? 80. Sorry, 78 maybe a little bit. Yeah. No, even later. 80. 88. Okay. That's the end. Yeah. That's the like pack it up boys. It's wild to have sorcerer and New York and New York at the same time. Well, because that's like two strikes new Hollywood. But De Niro's in this in 77 and 78 his comeback or whatever is deer hunter. Yeah. And then of course two years later, Jimmy Noelle fucks it up with Heaven's Gate. Yeah. And then the other irresistible bridge too far, which is another kind of like bad movie that was like a giant, you know what I mean? Like another movie that Star Wars kind of showed up.

1:51:08It's like a Richard Allen for movie. It's like three hours long as a giant war. That's the one that has everyone's been in. Connery, Kane, Gene Hackman, Anthony Hopkins, Lawrence, Olivia, Robert Redford, like, you know, and what's it about? It's like, the war! We had to, you know, like, we had to do the war. I don't know what it is. I mean, William Goldman writes he wrote it and he writes, you know, I don't know what it is. And he writes, you know, he, he bros it in one of his books, but a famous sort of flop. The cream really rises at the top in the 70s and what we remember and not just the masterpieces but even the kind of schlocky stuff like the deep, you know, when we got the disaster movie writing stuff like that, it is fascinating to do these 70s top 10 lists or even when you and I have been doing like 70s letter box lists and you're just like, and then the remaining 70% is nothing. Well, well, it's funny that like my kids and all of them are like, you know, like, all our kids will grow up like loving airplane and not understanding that that was like an annual type of movie that came out in the 70s that they were spoofing. And we're just like, what a weird funny movie.

1:52:10Yeah, right. They don't get the joke, the right, the parody, but they, the movie's funny, so they don't care. It's the magic of airplane is airplane works minus any context. Yes. Yeah. The rest of the list is Extras just through the heretic, another famous bomb of the year, John Bournemon's sequel to the Extras just the great Robert Altman film three women is opening this week at number eight. But that's another one where we're not going to let people do this again. Nope. A movie, of course, based on a dream, based on a dream by Robert Altman. Number nine is Annie Hall, which is a giant hit. Number 10, a disaster film starring George Siegel roller coaster, which was shown in sense around the 40 X of its day where they would rumble your seats or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, where I don't know or something happens on a roller coaster. I actually, I think that just got announced on 4K. I think I think you know, Lord, are we done with this almost? We're almost done with the disc. George, you're not a movie disc collector in a major way. Are you? No, I now I use movie disc to get like the gaps in what I can get.

1:53:12Yeah, right. The stuff that's not available, like the New York New York, except for. Yeah. Well, I had New York, New York back from when I was still collecting and then I actually just bought little night music because that's like how Prince is only. Oh, sure. And I've never seen it. I've never seen it either. Prince and I are both so down bad with the sickness these days. It's bad. It's bad. We're in a good, we're in a good, we're texting each other stacks. What's that? His arrives. I'm trying to take it easy for now because I got, you know, I got to it back into baseball cards. So that sort of consumed me for a while. There's only so many. You're texting those stacks to people. You want to see my card. Texting those tops. Come over. Yeah, and getting some tops. Stacks of tops. You know, come on. So that's the top 10. New York, New York. Yes, obviously. Sorry. Doesn't make a lot of money. And yet it endures partly because of the talent, partly because of the song, right? I mean, it's not forgotten, but it's certainly one of Marty's least favorite. No, and it's, it's, let me just own. Yes.

1:54:13But it's, it also, I think, stands as his most like interesting experiment because anything else you could frame as an experiment on his part ended up being proven right. At some point and then became influential where it's no longer something that feels risky. That belongs got bits of New York, New York, New York, and totally. I mean, well, a land we already mentioned. But it like this movie exists. And yet when you were brought in to help with the musical and we're told, don't watch it. Number one, you were told, don't watch it too. You hadn't seen it because, you know, people haven't seen this movie. Yes. It was like easy to tell you not to watch it. It's like that's, that's where this movie's at. There's probably like three other Marty movies you could say that are like that are kind of just in that sort of like, eh, no, like Kondun is there. No offense to Kondun, which is a good movie. But like nobody's seen Kondun, right? Nobody's really seen boxcar birth. I mean, that doesn't even hurt. I mean, I think this movie's really similar to who's that knocking at my door where it's

1:55:13like a movie fighting itself. And what I find interesting about it is that it's like, there's a cancer in the body. And the body is attacked. But who's that knocking is him with no money trying to figure out how to be a filmmaker? 75 minutes. This is him after taxi driver, a good filmmaker learning his limits, I would say, or and learning his and impaired and impaired. And somewhat impaired to the point that, and we'll talk about it next week on Raging Bull, he crashes out. And Bobby sort of rescues him with Raging Bull. Like he's basically in the hospital in Bobby, Danero is like, I want to play Jake Lamata. And Chris says he's like, I don't think I care about that. Like boxing, you know, and he's just like, you're just going to do it. You know, and the one of this thing is that Raging Bull is also Irwin Winkler, who is totally to roll the dice on him again after this. Well, he'd fucking made taxi driver. Bitch. Yeah. He made a movie where it's like, what's the premise of this movie? It's like a crazy guy shoots up like a house and he's a cab driver and no one likes him. And you're like, it's the premise of the movie.

1:56:14Like, yeah, it's going to make money. People are going to see it. And so and get like many, many Academy Award nominations. I mean, that is his guarantor because it is, it's the perfect example of a movie where you go on paper. This should not work. And it should not be a hit. And no one had really pulled it off before. And when you nail something like that, even if you step in shit a couple of times in a row, people step back and go like, there's something he gets that we can't get from anywhere else. There's something he knows how to do in that way. New York, New York is the blank checkiest. 100% definitely of all of these. It is a huge blank check for him. And it's a failure that love this part. And that's how this podcast is. I don't think there's anything until Gang's in New York that's quite a blank check for him and quite as crazy in terms of scale. And that's another movie that I love that also goes over weird. But this is this is the start of him being always on slight probationary status until the 2000s when he becomes an elder statesman.

1:57:1690s he's having to like, I'll do one for them in order to get to make my edgy Prasham project and things are up and down. Lynn, tell us about your edgy passion projects as we've asked this podcast. I'm edgy passion projects all the way down. I'm doing a Broadway musical of the warrior. You're best going to rock. That's going to roll. Yeah. So I mean, in rehearsals for the workshop of that right now. So that means we're basically like figuring out how to sing and fight at the same time. Right. Will there be a subway train on stage at all times? There you will see a subway car. Thank God. I think that's a spoiler, but you will definitely have like, and who is playing the subway car? You're looking at a lot of trains right now. So yeah, so we're in the thick of that. And I am on basically while I work on this, I'm on a six week hiatus from the edit of Octet, which I shot the spring with a little blanky Rachel Zegler.

1:58:18Rachel is Rachel Pedia as known to her cast. We were saying this that she pulls out the facts. She's a she's a freakish pop culture and freaking, you know, Phil Pesu and Amanda Saferid and right is her show. I know. To Tramelle. It's all killers. Tramelle tell him in Charlie Ralph. I'm getting mad at. Ratsam. I saw in Sweeney Todd. You cite this performance a lot. And I was like, damn. No, no, he's stranger things kids. Good. He's legit. Incredible. He's these baby gavrosches and baby billioliates grow up and rule the world. That's this is true. Maybe a lot of pipe. And maybe my told us too. Yeah, that's true. Quite a few who's a baby. Maybe told me. I always forget her name, but from hereditary. Oh, yeah, that's from, fuck, what is it? Is a Matilda. Yes. An Abigail's a Matilda. Remember, remember Abigail doing the ballet? Yeah. White and people's next. I like that movie. I told my story. A Milly Shapiro. Yeah. And yes, of course Tom Holland was a Billy Elliott, right? Yeah, an original Billy Elliott, but he was a Billy Elliott.

1:59:18Yeah, he was a British Billy Elliott. He was UK Billy Elliott. Yeah, those are the two things. So you got, you got shit cooking. I got shit cooking. Yeah, that's kind of exciting. Yeah. I don't know. Thank you for coming on our show while you're busy doing all this stuff. Yeah, it's my pleasure. I'm always here when you got, you guys always have sort of the, like, the thing I cannot say no to. Right. We like to learn a fun one. And we try to make our ass count. Yeah, exactly. We're not going to do it. I have to do it. I can do it. Just every so often be like, right, I don't know what's a random, you know, loser, Amy Hickering's loser, unless you do have teenage. I do love Amy Hickering. Yeah, Hickering rules. Yeah. Yeah. Griffin, I don't know. We're done. Griffin, I don't know. I'm starting to know something else. I'm trying to. Theme from blank check. Blank check. Take away. Theme from blank check. Blank check. We should. We should. Yeah. We can commission that. Right. And that's when you. And that's when you start the last Waltz podcast. Okay. Like right there when you said that. The proper. The machete cut. The proper listening order is pause right now.

2:00:19Listen to our last Waltz episodes. Right. And then come back here as I do the outro. So rather than the outro, the opening of the episode will be the same. But rather than the outro being our usual instrumental version, I'm going to do the outro. And then theme from blank check. Blank check is going to play. And you're on coke now. Yes. That's the other thing that's happened while you guys were listening to the last Waltz episode developed a debilitating cocaine. I've been chipping cocaine left. I'm right. You're chipping. Oh, you're chipping. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Toonie next week for raging ball. But last Waltz will be happening on Patreon. That's right. Sorry to last. Yes. I mean, but also excited to talk about last. Yes. And as always, the making of New York, New York was normal. Old.

2:01:39New York. New York. New York. New York. New York. New York. New York. Blank check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hossley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas. And our associate producer is AJ McKeein. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeein and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Oli Moss and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon, blank check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes.

2:02:44Follow us on social at blankcheckpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by blankcheck productions. Cozy season is ahead and you'll be spending way more time inside. Is your home ready? Don't worry. And with Wayfair, you can upgrade your space without breaking the bank. Score up to 70% off during their Labor Day clearance on furniture, area rugs, mattresses, and more. Plus, surprise flash deals you can't miss. Whether it's one room or the whole house, Wayfair has pieces for every style and budget. Shop Wayfair's Labor Day clearance now through September 7th at Wayfair.com. Wayfair every style every home.