Navigating Market Shifts with Gene Darde

0:00What actually works? What's the next? Here's the breakdown from this week's Friday Focus on KGCI. Real Estate on Air. Seven Figure Success starts when you start thinking like a CEO. Welcome to the John Kitchens Coach podcast experience. This is your host, John Kitchens. You're ready to think bigger and transform your business into a path to lasting freedom. What's up, brother? What's wrong? Man, good to see you, good to connect with you. Always love catching up. Always love chopping it up. And we got a lot to dive into. Man, how long is this podcast? As long as we want it to be. I love it, man. What's going on? You know, I was just interested to hear navigating the market, navigating just tough times.

1:00I mean, shit. I mean, it's been, it feels like it's been a battle. Yeah. Yeah, man, you know, in 22, when we had, I think, we had the organization up to over 50 people when you count agents and VA's and all that. And now, between 22 and 25, I have reinvented my business, reinvented the team, reinvented partnerships, all the above. Dang there went bankrupt, there in the process. That still could happen. You know, but I think we're on the other end of it. So it's been quite a journey, man. I learned a lot about what not to do, but it has been cool to rebuild it too. Because you know, when you've been through the fire a couple of times, you know, over the past 10 years or so, generally speaking, hopefully you can rebuild it a little better. So that's that's kind of where we are. Looking back, I mean, you know, we could know what we know now.

2:03Going back to 22, you look at the lessons, what, how would we have navigated the waters a little bit different? I think we most likely would have just stayed a little more lean in me and kind of kept, kept everything abreast. And a lot of, you know, a lot of the things that, especially that you coach as far as tracking and everything, you know, our mistake wasn't scaling up when we were scaling big, doing the cash offers and doing all the other things. We scaled up really good. And I think, I think we did 205 units in six months. So, which, you know, which was pretty cool, man. And it was cool to be able to be touched by your organization and be able to have the knowledge to do that. But where we made the mistake was when the friends he stopped and the buying stopped, we didn't, we didn't do like water, like Bruce Lee says, the flow like water and just start backing up. We kind of held on and took and clutched the opportunity that had already went away. And in doing so, we didn't scale back as far as staff and employees, you know, all those things. Nor did we do a really good job of shifting and finding what the next opportunity was.

3:06Now, given the past couple of years statistically, I've been pretty down across the country as far as sales. I know there's some hot pockets, but just overall. But we just, we didn't make the adjustments to scale back and reform our ship to where the opportunities actually were and tried to grasp onto that old opportunity. And so, we, you know, six, we put six to eight months, we held on and just bleeding like crazy until, you know, you got to a point in the business where you didn't have options for a change. It was a forced type type thing. So that was that's what I do different is. We've all been there, right? I mean, is it just a human nature thing to, oh, we can, we can, what is holding here? It's going to come back. Like what indicators did we miss to be like, hey, hey, this, the train's over. We got a, we got a shift and we got a shift now. Well, I think it's more about no understanding the economics of it because the folks that we're doing all the buying and the folks that we're reporting on with will continue to tell us, keep

4:08everything in staff. We're going to go again. But understand the dynamics of why they're buying and what they're buying and understand the economics that could change that and watching the economics versus, you know, what somebody that's maybe in a mid-level position is telling us would be a smart or move. And that goes into play with anything is, you know, a lot of what I learned was study and bond market, study and rate, study and labor markets, study and the real big indicators that push business on the front end that allow you to see what's going to happen on the back end. And, you know, for us, we just took somebody's word for it that wasn't telling us wrong on purpose. They just didn't know. And versus really understanding the economics and what was truly happening in the real estate marketing and be able to make adjustments on that versus, you know, versus a one-off. Right. So, staying lean, making the adjustments pivoting faster. And I know, you know, part of your overall vision is getting down to the water. So going into, you know, the market, how far is, you know, the other market for you from where you're at, Bama?

5:15It's about, it's right out four hours. Okay. Yeah. So four hours down there. Man, polar opposite market. It is. So I was running a conference this morning and I do what's called Revee previews at the beginning of early late, which is just a video to review what happened, preview what's coming for each listing. And so, and so I'm carrying listings in Birmingham and in Northwest and so when I pull stats for Birmingham, all the, all the inventory showing three months, four months, five months, that type of stuff. So it's pretty easy to build a strategy off and off. Yeah. Florida, it's a little bit different. I think you and I were talking earlier, you know, and I think, you know, we've got 13 or 14 months of inventory in Florida as a state right now, it's carrying more inventory than they've carried even all the way back to like 2012 and 13 when we were, we were really high. And we had a ton of money flying there a lot of it was pay check protection money. A lot of it was migratory, tons of different things, but a lot of them bought homes on adjustable rate mortgages and when those, when those mortgages adjusted, some of them were

6:18dependent on rental income and some other things to prop those things up and those all went in the red. So you're going to, you see a rush of inventory on the beach and then off the beach, if you get, you know, a calendar or so back, then you get into industry and ports and things like that and your inventory drops down to five or six months of inventory, because it's kind of normalized. So it's interesting to see all the different dynamics as you run through different markets for shooting. So are we starting to see prices adjust? I saw a report. I can't remember where it was from, but top 30 markets in the country as far as price, price adjustments where they were going and I don't know if it was over over the last 12 months or whatever it was, but, you know, majority of the markets, nobody was double digits, but majority of the top markets were Florida and then some in Texas. I mean, how much are you seeing prices? I mean, you're at 13 months inventory and price correction moving the other way. Well, I've got a good example. We did one at 535 and that was that that we listed and that was back in September of this year as one of the

7:21first ones we took down there and that was right when, you know, everybody still has that 2022 kind of mentality with sellers and that was when inventory was starting to climb. And at 535, we got two showings over over three months. We reshoffing our pencil and during that whole time, we saw our correction and then we went back home and it looks like we're going to go around 490. So that was, you know, 40,000 on 500,000. So you're looking at, you know, 8, 9, 10 percent price correction that's kind of happening in there. So I don't think it's like a massive 20 percent crash, but I'm seeing a good average 5 to 8 percent price correction and the percentage of properties that are getting a price adjustment after going to the market is up in the 40s, like 42, 43 percent. So you're having a lot of people realize that, you know, where they think they are, they're not, they're not getting traction. So trying to base it off of historical instead of, like you said, you know, bringing something on and looking at kind of competition and what you're competing against has to be factored in. And that was the whole thing. Why, you know, we, we really led with kind of the headline, you know, the death of the CMA,

8:26because we, you know, you have to factor in all of the things around you other than just, you know, the historical side of things. Yeah, and that's been interesting to me. It was almost not re-learned. Not re-learned. Well, I guess it was re-learned in the job just to be able to have those conversations and articulate what's actually happening, you know, and right now, if you're selling in any market, pretty much, you got to, you got to be able to talk well beyond what your neighbor's house sold for and really, really understand economics. Which I think that's where most agents need to be anyway, man. You, I saw a crazy stat that like 70% of agents last year didn't sell a house or something crazy like that. And those numbers are always skewed depending on who's right here, or what sampling they pull from. But I think the biggest thing that that's showing up and why you have those big numbers is now these, these, these communications that are in living rooms have a lot to do with being in a particular, that you're going through a price correction. And, you know, you're not seeing it on the news and you're not seeing it, you know, and your neighbor's still talking about his house that had eight offers, you got to look inside the data and really understand how to point to those things and point to indicators that aren't necessarily sold prices

9:27that'll lead you to where you need to be to get them sold. So, so important. And then obviously, everything also, to consideration what the, what the seller's objective is, what is the goal? What are they trying to accomplish? And I mean, when you get to there, to that point, man, you got to, and it's one of the things kind of been looking out over the last couple years, just been saying it's like, man, like don't waste time on people that want to, you got to go find the people that have to. Where's the motivated opportunities at? And I've made those mistakes in Florida. I've actually removed, you know, I've taken seven or eight listings, but I've dropped three of them. And it was very well that mentality of let me go just get what I can get right now because business is slim, you know, so just having something to hope for or something to get, you know, and I don't mean we're not selling houses, but numbers are down, you know, so anytime you get an opportunity to get something out there that you have a chance to sell, you know, your, your mind wants to go to it. Just get it, man, just get the deal and you'll figure it out. And that is not a winning strategy right now because if they're not, I've got to move, I'm getting divorced,

10:29somebody died, my job changed, you know, the three Ds, all those, all those good things, if, if those aren't happening, most of the time, they're not willing to go where they need to go to, to move the house. All right. You know, and the guy that the listing that I told you about, the conversation that we had where I finally got him to say, hey, you've got to come here and this is what's happened. I was like, look, man, you're liquid in this house. If you're liquid in this house, would you rather continue to pay taxes, insurance, and utilities? Or would you rather move it $35,000, take that $500,000 and go ahead and go earn five or six percent on it and let it pay you, but in six months through year, we're home anyway. And so it's kind of those type conversations that will help lead you a little bit further. And some people aren't ready for it. You're absolutely right. So yeah, well, some people aren't ready for that in Bill because of the point, but I think that's going to be the difference in, you know, even in the industry, you know, the real estate agent industry as a whole, if you're not educated and being willing to have those type of conversations,

11:31it's going to be real hard for you to be able to survive. You're going to be one of those agents that aren't selling very many houses per year. And that, but to me, that's, that's what it takes, right? To be able to, to make it through kind of the storm and the, and the season of the industry is that you've got to be the one that needs to tell them what they need to hear, not what they want to hear. I was listening, um, man, I've really been spending a lot of time listening PBD podcast. I just love how, you know, that's, I get my, that's, that's my news. That's how I stay in tune to what's going on. Um, I got his daily update from a, uh, value team and VT, VT news.ai. And it sends me just the stuff that I'm interested in that I need to be paying attention to on a daily basis. So I don't get caught up in all, all the noise. But he had a really good story that he was talking about on the, uh, the last podcast at the end of last week. And he was just having a conversation with his son. Um, he's, he's got, he's got two boys. One of them is super

12:34competitive. Um, one's going to be in politics. One wants to, you know, professional soccer, we just be on the sports sides. And they were having a conversation talking about advice. And, you know, the advice that you get from most people and he called it, you know, the 20% advice, right? To be, you know, the advice that you get to be the top 20% at whatever it is that you're trying to do. But if you want to be at the top 1% of whatever it is that you want to do, that's a different kind of advice. But now if you want to be the point 1% of whatever it is you do, that's a completely different type of advice. And, and he, he was just going on and he was like, you know, the, the advice most people want is that 20% advice they want. Oh man, you know, just hard work, you show up every day, you know, you can do it, you can be whatever you want, you can, you just go get it, right? That type of advice. And he said, now you get into that 1% advice

13:37or that 0.1% of advice. And that, that, that's when people will tell you like, listen, you ain't got this, you ain't got this, you ain't got this, that ain't possible. Don't do that. This is how you're built. You need to focus on that, right? Tell them exactly what they need to hear. And I just think agents as a, you know, going into the market, that's the type of advice that they've got to be able to give is they got to be able to tell these clients, these buyers and sellers, especially in a market of when you have to, man, just being able to shoot them as, as, as real as possible. Yeah. And I think a lot of people, you know, I make some pretty simple Facebook posts with kind of basic, you know, knowledge of real estate and stuff like that. And I have a lot of agents. I'm like, this is great. This is great. And I think in the back of my mind, it surprises me that that you guys aren't studying that more because it really helps you with every conversation. I made a post the other day and I ruffled a few feathers, amazing that. I can always count on you, roughly, in front of my last.

14:39And my post was, was, was basically predicated on just saying, hey, you know, a lot of real estate agents are more worried about and what they put out is look at me and the glam shots and all this other stuff, which, what created that was that 19 or the 2019 to 2022, 2022 market where everything was selling really fast. And then you had AI kind of enter the picture, you know, social media, influencers, all that stuff. And so agents didn't find it real hard to sell real estate. So they figured out how to look awesome on social media. And I'm like, well, now it's real important that you know how to sell real estate. And it's really important that you put out things that actually add value and help folks versus just what you look like or, or, or, or, you know, and I think that's, that's the order of the day really is, is to really, you got to know the game, man. And you got to know, you got to know your note as far as, you know, how to advise them what direction it's going, where their buyers are coming from, you know, how you're going to attack that, what they can expect. You really got to talk to them and help

15:40them from couch to couch. And it had, and like I said, it doesn't have the time to do with what the neighbors have sold for in a volatile market. And if you don't understand the economic side of it and the strategy side of it and know your market really well, in this phase, which is, which is not the new AI and every house that's selling in two seconds phase, those things are going to come back to the top. And I think you're going to see a lot of the influencers and a lot of a lot of the voices in real estate move, move back a lot more to strategy and equality versus clicks. So yeah, yeah. What besides, you know, the economics side of it, besides the MLS, like, what are you paying attention to to stay sharp to be able to stay on top of real time data, real time information? I really try to pay attention to what's causing money to move, the where it's coming from. And I think that helps, you know, and it's fun to do it to different markets because, you know, an example in Florida is most most everybody I talked to in Florida, they own three or four houses,

16:41they don't live there. All they care about is cap rates, economics, what are my cash, old cash returns, those type conversations on the beach. Then you move two miles or three miles off the beach and you're having your standard living room conversations, but you want to understand where the money's coming from. So an example in the Florida market would be they just expanded their port Panama City, they just opened up, they just dropped it to our forebars, it said because of the new infrastructure with the airport, which I think you've flown into. And the port expansion, and they brought a lot of, you know, a lot of highway infrastructure and those things, and it's slated to be one of the top five mid-tier grossies. Well, in doing so, that also spurred a shipyard that just did an eight billion dollar contract with the government to build ships in our market. So in the section that that happened, the 12 months of inventory got reduced to three months of inventory, within a matter of 30 days. Similar in Birmingham is when you're in a tight economy, Birmingham is very medical-based and then the state itself has a lot of auto industry and stuff like that. So figuring out who's moving in, who's moving out, where that money's coming from,

17:43and I even look at stats about what different states the money's coming from depending on what market I'm in, and so I can target my advertising to that. So I think the biggest thing is really understanding how money flows, where it flows from, and who's bringing it into your city, and then when you craft a marketing plan, that's what you go after. And oftentimes that's going to produce more fruit than just a buyer for your client if you're hitting on somebody that's bringing in a certain amount of volume or a certain area that's bringing in a certain amount of volume. An example in Panama City is the number one feeder of Panama City right now, it's national. So when we're running pay ads, we do a lot of ads in Nashville, just because there's a decent migratory and a decent investment home purchase coming from that area. So some of those things are... How are you juggling that? I mean, how are you getting that data in a way to where you don't consume your whole time, you know, just studying data and searching for it using AI, using a lot of tools, you're doing a lot of research to help you there? Yeah, I use a company called LISTRAT, just to understand the over dynamic, overall dynamics, and they'll tell me where all my clicks and

18:44traffic are coming from, and they give me market stats beyond just my listings. And then with the group that we're in with place, they've got some pretty extensive systems like landboys and some other companies they bought, where we can do a lot of cross-referencing, a lot of things like that. The number one, get the data that we need and get the contacts we need, and then number two, be it after it. So it's just different system area pro landboys. Those are two that really and LISTRAT, those are three that really helped me kind of paint the picture. So yeah, because like for you, I mean, like you said, you got the Bama market, which you know very, very well. And then you go into Florida and where you're at down there, I mean, it's essentially two different markets within a market, right? Because if you're talking waterfront, like you said, it's a completely different clientele, it's a completely different conversation, you get a little bit off. Okay, well, I'm used to this conversation, that's a Bama conversation. I can have this one. So how do you, and you know, just even from a leadership perspective and mentoring and leading other agents to know, you know, when to lean in to what

19:49matters the most to that particular clientele, is it something you just kind of, you know, you just kind of know or you start asking some questions and they open up and like, man, dude, I don't care about that. I just want to know this, this, this, and then you got to be able to rifle it back to them. I mean, is that just through experience and just all the conversations you've had to know how to navigate those those type of conversations? Yeah, I think it's experienced, but I think the biggest thing and what we coach agent someone is is do a lot less talking and a lot more listening and then the more they tell you, the more questions you ask and it's so important to get to even, you know, a very personal level of folks. If you're talking about somebody that's death, the worst job change, then it's very important to get to a level to where you truly can impact their lives and help them because most likely it's it's a big type move. And so you've got to understand enough to be able to have to understand the conversation you're going to have with that. And that's a long drawn out questions, really deep interpersonal conversation that I'll get you there. As far as these investors and folks that have each front property, man, they're quick and to the point. Do you know how to do 1031 exchanges? Do you understand returns? Do you

20:52understand cash on cash? If I tell you to go find me something or you're going to give me something that falls within the buy box of what I want or you just going to waste my time and they weed through you really quick because there's there's a lot of agents down there and and and a lot of them don't understand that language. So so when you're making those calls to those bigger clientele, it's boom, boom, boom, and they'll talk to you for about 45 seconds and know if you're qualified enough to help them with with their goals and everybody has different. Sure. Yeah, so I'm not knocking anybody. It's just different different clientele. And so, you know, once you get to that first 45 seconds, you start going deep and talking about money, talking about returns. And then, the beauty of that one is you open up conversations about three, four and five properties. So that's that's a lot of fun for me and you know how I manage being able to run between these two markets. It's like I said before, you know, most of the folks that I talked to down there, you know, the average sales price down there is over 900,000. And there's houses that go all the way up to 2025 million on that low. There's one little stretch there that pulls some some pretty decent

21:52numbers. So, you know, it's just it's just being it's just being able to have those conversations and get to that point quit. So they know you're qualified and then you can expand it out into network and relationship and then start add value. So just understand what value they need. And then make it your head. So it's definitely a lot different. How were you? Because, you know, with the emergence of all the cloud-based brokerages, typically one cat, so all over the planet, wherever, wherever those companies are operating, how were you navigating multiple markets, right? Being able to, you know, because just you're in Bama, you're going down to Florida, you know, after this, you'll be there for, you know, four or five days. You still got business in Bama. Like how were you juggling to be able to to proactively manage both markets and deal with clientele even when you're not there? Leverage. You know, I've got show and assistance and I've got, you know, folks at the open houses and it's kind of a blessing for me because I

22:54tell the team, my list is your business. If you want to unbrand me and say it's yours, I can finally. So I really try to take everything, every piece of business I do, leverage the team, help them, you know, click a little 10% here there for showing assistance, help them with a marketing, all the other stuff. So when I'm able to leverage the teammates for what I'm not there and leverage them for marketing and everything else and it's been a fit to the client, send to us and it's just, so it's basically like double exposure and a lot more boots on the ground. So that's the main thing is just leveraging teammates and making sure that while I can't be at all places at one time, making sure I have the people that are dependable that are. So they can be there and show them for you. Yeah, it's, it's, no, I really believe we're going to start to see more and more and more of it. You know, obviously spending time up in, you know, the northwest in the winter, get the northeast in the winter, get me the hecka, I got, I need some, I need some warm weather and I think a lot of people feel the same way now that they know like I,

23:54I remember telling Gogo when she was still living in Michigan, I was like, you know, you're not a tree, right? Like you can really plant roots wherever you want just because you're here. It doesn't mean you have to be here and, you know, it was a light bulb moment for her and, you know, within however many months she was, you know, they were in Florida. So being able to, to be able to, to have that, I think we're going to see more and more of it of how, you know, to navigate it the right way. I mean, how much do the consumers care at the end of the day? I mean, once you have that conversation and they know that, you know, you know, what you're saying, they're pretty much on board for whatever. And I'll try to, and I'll tell them up front, I don't, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, hey, I run two markets. This is what you're going to see. Well, I'm always your main point of contact and if you need me 10 times a day, comic 10 times a day, you'll get me, but just, just know that there'll be people behind the scenes. You have a whole team working for you. I love that. And, and I hit that up front and then when they see somebody, a new

24:56face or a new thing, they're just like, oh, it's part of the team. I got a whole team. I got a whole crew doing my things. I just try to make sure to relay that up front and, and it's rare that I get any of the exception of that. You were saying about the, about the market on the water in Florida. Where, where do agents miss the mark? I mean, where did, you know, I mean, because I know you can come in, you can, I mean, you're skilled, you know, assassin on the phones, you know, conversation, you can pick up expires, you can pick up properties that don't sell. Where, where are agents, especially on, you know, the higher clientele on the water, where, where are they missing the mark? How are they not able to, one, how did they get the listing into, however, you know, not being able to sell it? I think it's just not really having, having the skills and training and understanding of how, of how to do it and not work to put the time and work yet to do it. And then, and then, you know, if you don't list multi-million dollar properties or you haven't had that experience, I mean, it's had some courage just to pick up the phone. And so, you know, I was having a conversation with

25:56the team this morning, I'll tell them, I might look guys, if you want to collapse time, you know, the hours say, collapse time. Number one is obviously coaching, but number two, the fastest way to get deals is to just pick up the phone. And you're going to be horrible at it when you first pick up the phone. But you're going to get better over, you know, over time, the more and more you do it. But what I really recommend you do to collapse time is before you make dollars, don't just do it to check off a list. I had quality, spend 20 minutes understanding how to talk about the framework. Understand, first of all, sit down and know what clientele you're going to call. Don't just call a two to me in our house and then a $200,000 house. Have a game plan. Spend 20 minutes before you sit down. And the first time you hear a nugget that you think is going to move the business forward in that save once you want. Put it in play. Make some calls. See what that does. If that doesn't work, continue studying. Add some more and continue to build on it. And I think, you know, all those things that I just told you don't happen in one day and they don't happen in one phone call, they happen over a period of a month or two. And it's really hard to get agents to be consistent enough to number one, do the studying and the homework to get to understand it. But to have the courage that to know that you're going to make a call and you're probably going

27:00to get asked a question, you don't know the answer to you. And then they're kind of just stuck so they just end up going nowhere. So I don't think it's a lack of ability. I just think it's more of a more of a fear factor than anything. Yeah, that is a small. And I mean, you start, what you do have those conversations, you're like, wow, this is normal dude here. There's another human being. I mean, it's the same thing. It's just having a conversation. And especially the higher. And just to me, it's the same, right? Because real estate is a high ticket item. And you look at, you know, the only thing you're clicking and buying is not a high ticket item, right? You're going to have a conversation when it comes down to a high ticket item. And so everything has to lead to a conversation in real estate. So what are you doing to have a conversation? I mean, if you go to have a conversation on a $200,000 home or $2 million home, you still got to have a conversation. So just being able to be able to go through that and know you're just dealing with another human being on the other end of the line

28:03was always always that way for me, right? Like, you know, talking to a new agent getting into the industry or talking to Jack and Michael Perry, right? You know, run the largest team at real. Like, text Jack, you know, message back and forth on Instagram all the time. It's just, he's another dude, right? And I think this went you once you realize that, like, ah, and then you have a few of those conversations you build that confidence. Yes. And then the knowledge base too. And you put all that stuff together. And at some point, you'll find a sweet spot. And then, you know, you get one or two under your belt and then you're off to the races with just just start. And then, and then, you're going to get told no and get kicked out. My goal, we've got a hundred thousand people in our database. My goal is to get it to 30,000. Wow. Because I want 70,000 under tell me to to kiss off. And the other 30,000 are my fans. I'll deal with the fans, you know, yeah. That's it. I want to deal with my people, right? The people that I can relate with that, that I think the biggest thing for for me was always, you know, I want I want to deal with people that see value in what we do. That's one type of people.

29:05They see value in what we do. They believe we can help them. Obviously, the marketing and things that we're providing to them. Okay. And then I want I want to deal with those people. Yeah. And not everybody's going to you're not going to be able to get everybody to see it. Do I see it? And I think, I think when, and I think if you absorb that defeat, it makes it really harder. And honestly, you're going to have more defeats than wins, no matter how good you are. But I think being able to accept that you're not just looking for a client, you're looking for the right client is really a big move. And it'll allow you to kind of release a little bit of that thanks that comes with the ones that aren't right. So yeah. So, Jim, we talked a little bit about, you know, obviously if we, you know, had the magic wand and kind of go back and know what we know, what we would have changed. Looking forward or even, you know, over the last six, 12 months, the decisions you've made to navigate the business, navigate the company, you know, navigate yourself, navigate, you know, the family. Like, I'm just curious how,

30:06how you're looking and kind of the decision filters that you have in place for now and into the future. Well, right now, right now we're trying to, I'm trying to build the team as big as I can and create, and I'm on a five year plan. And we joined a group called Place. And after five years, you can actually sell your business to Place and or put somebody else, you know, put somebody else in. And so for us every month, you know, we're hammering on KPIs, hammering on numbers, hammering on what we need to be able to get there. And it has a lot to do with recruiting and obviously recruiting and sales are what it is. But I think we're a lot more measured on what's causing those things. What efforts we're putting in, what's what's what's returning through and what's not. And honestly, with our cash so tight and opposition so tight right now, we don't have a lot of room for error. So, so having that support to really be able to look at, you know, look under the hood and know what needs to be tweaked is really helping. But it's at one of those

31:10critical times where if I'm, you know, in the past in 22, if I made a $30,000 mistake, no big deal, I don't have that option right now. So, so for me, it's, it's what's the time in, what's the what's the investment, what's the back end and what are the, what are the, what are the pitfalls in between. And so we're not, not as quick, we make decisions fast, but not, not like we used to, just just because we're a bit more measured and what we do, we make sure the lines were the KPIs that we have versus a bolt-ones on to speak. What value did you see and bringing in, you know, a partner essentially, that's what place is, is a partner for you, 50, 50, you know, what, hold did you see that, but problem did you see that man, I believe they can help me solve this. I think it's what, you know, running a 10 unit team, I don't need play, a 10% team, I don't need place, which is what we are right now. Running a 50% team, I do need place. So it was more of a where I want to go and what I want to build it up to, what opportunities, you know, it can produce

32:13for me if I build it up the right way and then I can execute some of those sales opportunities and some of those things in the near future, or I say a five year future. So it was really more of, you know, like for instance, right now I can handle coaching my agents 101. I have 25 agents, there's not enough hours in the day for me to do that. So number one is being able to grow, grow into what I want to grow into. And I try to stay a couple steps ahead. Number two is they're they're buying up companies and I've engaged in that. We now have a mortgage branch. And so we do what we've got five or six loans going right now and I'll buy them in Florida. And I'm licensed loan officer. I'm actually doing the whole thing. It's actually kind of fun. I'm kind of a data nerd. So it's fun. But it's being able to add a few extra layers of income without hitting the cash and then being able to see all the coaching and all the things that they provide for my team that takes the lift off me when we get bigger. So I guess that would be the answer is right now it's good value. But most of the coaching a lot of things that we've that we're going through is is, you know, I know, man, I've been coaching with one, I've been coaching for one of the best,

33:16which is youth for a while. So it's not something I've heard, but it does get rid of a lot of that time and that headache of not headache, but just a lot of that time that it takes to do the one or ones and all those other things because they do a lot of that lifting for you. So I'm more of a CEO than just a coach is I guess I'm not sure what to put it. I do. I agree with you. You're so spot on, right? You don't need them if you want to stay lean and mean. It doesn't it doesn't make sense. Make sense when you grow it to really take advantage of, you know, the the additional resources. I mean, you know, you don't need somebody riding your ass every day. I mean, we need we need we need we need accountability, but when they're riding it when we, you know, you're lean and mean, it's it's different than riding me when we've got 50 or 60 and you're pulling your weight, helping me with onboarding, helping me with offboarding, helping me with accountability, helping me with, you know, making sure agents are staying plugged in in production and there's definitely a lot of value there. But I do, you know, you look at, you know, there's only a handful of ways to grow any

34:19business and one of them is increase the transaction, you know, value. Obviously strategically, you go in into Florida looking at higher end, getting out of the Bama market was same thing with us, right? We got out of a lot in our average sales price, 120 versus when we were in when we were in North DFW, I mean, it was only 283 during that during that run. That was our average, but I mean, that was double for us where we came from. So we were like, we were loving it, right? And I mean, obviously now, if we would have, you know, hung in there, talked with Alex on Friday and I said, so what's your average sales price up to brother? He said, I about 850. So you come a long ways, he's from Connecticut, he's like, yeah, come a long ways, you know, about 115. He was doing the Connecticut accent. So strategically, it's good, you know, obviously to position whatever price points, but you're expanding your transaction value by being able to align with mortgage. I mean,

35:20it's just, I'm seeing it more and more and more just with the opportunity. It makes a lot of sense to be able to do it. And I know how been and they structured it and with Envoy, good product, good move, good service to be able to align. So I mean, I love that move. Speaking of leadership and moves, obviously, you know, you're at real and seeing, you know, one of the the faces, but then also one of the best leaders in the industry, kind of reposition, you know, from the day to day to where they're at. When you start to see changes within organizations, things like that, I mean, what do you, what do you start to think? What do you start to kind of look at and see what's going on? You know, you see a lot of violence and a lot of mergers and things like that. And then, you know, within our organization, you know, you can make sure on, move into the border directors versus the

36:20president. From a surround perspective, you know, I don't think I've ever seen a leader that impactful in a president's role in a company since I've been in real estate. And so obviously, for us that were a beneficiary of that, man, it's, you know, that, that is, you know, and I'm fortunate to be able to talk to him one or one, you know, once you try some one. And I'm definitely understanding and I think they're working on some bigger fish. And I don't know what we don't talk enough for him to tell me what the bigger fish is. But I'm, you know, I think you're seeing a lot of a lot of merging and a lot of a lot of that. And I think you're going to see it the agent counts go down and some of those things. And I think it goes back to you're going, you know, with technology, you know, with cloud broken news with all these things, you're going to see the agents that can move fast, understand technology, understand how to use resources like AI and all these other things to make their business go faster. Those are your top, you know, 20% that they're going to do well. And I think the bottom end of the agents, you know, is going to be, it's going to be tough to sustain. And so I think that's why you're seeing a lot of these company mergers and things

37:23like that either because they're feeling that pain on the top end. So you see like your color whales and your remaxes that have got a lot of money invested in brick and mortar. And then they're competing against folks that don't. So there's going to be a lot of moves in real estate, I think, but I think the main thing for me is just they focused on knowledge, scalability, and systems and processes that make me go faster than the next guys is where I keep it. Because all these brokerages now, I've got all the technology, man, it's just a matter of, you know, who's the leadership and do you think that they can take you where you want to go? Yeah, it's a, it's really interesting. It's interesting too that you said with with the AI emergence, I was, you know, like any any of us marketers just plugged into all the newsletters just get bombardment, you know, in our inbox with all kinds of stuff. And there's a no G get his get his newsletter. And he had one that was kind of talking about him just stepping back out of his his, you know, community that he has of business

38:29owners, just what he's, he's observing. And he, you know, he took his back a little bit. He said, you know, 2016 was all about, you know, get a funnel, you know, throw some ads, you're going to, you're going to make some money. And then you get into 20 and it was all about, it was all about creating reoccurring revenue, building it up and selling. And he's seeing what he's seeing now is shift back to the organizations that are led with human, human resources paired with AI. That's the direction. He said, that's the trend that he's seeing everywhere is that these companies that are human driven, right? It's not about creating a SaaS model. It's not just about throwing a funnel up with whatever God knows what that you want to pedal and sell. But he's this now it's really human resource, you know, companies driven driven by actual humans and human services paired with AI that are really starting to to see it. And, you know, even even the the late adopters or

39:34whatever, right? Just being able to leverage, you know, chat GPT, GROC, just using it on a day and a day out basis. I mean, you know, even having like, you know, getting my daughter to get in on board with the company and I'm like, take your script. I want you to go roleplay with chat GPT, just open up the audio, start talking, what you want to do. Had a Kenny fast on a couple weeks ago. And he's like, we make every one of our agents, they have resources that they have to check out and they better check it through chat GPT before they come to leadership with a question. Yeah. That's, huh? Yeah. And it's a consolidation. Number one, it's a consolidation of agents. The ones that are willing to take advantage of that technology to make their cargo faster. And then they're just going to outrun somebody else. Yeah. Everybody else by so far, there's like say, that it won't be sustainable, it's not catch up. But I think the other caveat to it that that is

40:37going to squeeze our industry is the consumers access to, they have the same access to AI. AI gives pretty good data. And so while you can't replace a real estate agent, there are a lot of things that, you know, you can't, there's a lot of things you can. So if you're one of those agents that don't have the skill beyond the replaceable, those are the ones that are in trouble. You know, and so I think it's a lot of consumer access to information that gives them more information than they would, they would get on just a standard Google search where they don't know how to dive the, that's going to help too. So it eliminates a lot of those needs unless you can communicate in a really, really high level and articulate in a high level. What else you do beyond that that really, you know, gives them an unfair advantage. So it's an interesting point, Jean. It's something I was thinking about is, you know, we're talking about us in our industry and how we're using it to be better and go faster. How do we, how do we, how do we're you thinking about or even you thinking about how the consumer is utilizing chat GPT in their home buying and home selling search prior to

41:38that even having a conversation with us? Yeah, I mean, that, that, that, they can search now. It's, it's, you know, the term, rocket versus Google is, is starting to become a thing. But, I mean, you can ask rock, tell me what house is a per sale, tell me where they're trending, tell me what the market looks like, tell me what I can expect over the next three months based on data. Anything you want, as just like you said with the interview conversation, you know, because you said just have a conversation with them, it's, it's just like the consumer having a conversation with an agent. Most likely if it's one of the bottom, you know, 20% they're having a better conversation than they would have with the agent. So it's on, you know, that's a big deal. So how are you, so knowing, your wealth of knowledge and understanding of, of the industry, of how the money moves, how, you know, real estate is actually, you know, transacted and done. Where do you have to focus now, because you're going to be entering into the buyer and sellers conversation, where they're way more educated than ever before. How, how, then, then, how, how do you still maintain your value

42:45at that point? Like, how do you, you know, not be like, this dude's, I, like, I know more than he does. Grock knows more than he does. So like, where, where do you now enter the conversation for them to be able to help them get the transaction across the finish line? Usually strategy one thing that I was not going to do is they'll give you market specifics and things like that, but not necessarily strategy of how to do this in this situation or, or what your situations are for, for, you know, side-sepping the tax man or in the, in the mortgage world, you know, I look at a loan and I go, well, you're approved up to this dollar amount, but if I can negotiate this amount for you into the contract, then I can approve you to this dollar amount, because I'm doing both sides, I understand there's a level of communication to where I understand every nuance and can customize just about anything for you. So I think it goes into number one, being able to, being able to communicate strategies based on their situation as far as, you know, whatever the situation is, whether it's savings tax dollars, getting into the right

43:47house, all those type things that, that AI is pretty limited in. I think that's, that's going to be your biggest, your biggest hit and, and I don't think, you know, every house is unique, and I think I've realized that in the mortgage piece of it is, I think there's a missing gap between agents and mortgage people unless you're so tight with your mortgage person, you're talking at such a high level, because there's a level of customization that I can be now that I'm negotiating the contract you write the mortgage, that always ends up being a better deal for the client, not just talking about my rates, but structure and everything else, depending on their needs. And I think that flows into just what you said with, from the AI side, every house is going to have a unique, unique identifier to it. So to speak, you know, whether it be, you know, size shot, size shape, you know, those type things, a lot size, all those different things, and in addition to that, situations in the house that require timelines, that require big decisions, all those things. So if you lean more on the strategy and the navigation versus just the statistical evidence,

44:53I think that's where you'll sit yourself apart. I love that. Yeah, and in, even more important now than ever, I mean, you know, we, one, we had to build CHBA because we had CHSA, and CHBA is about the home buying strategy, and it's all about that. And I think that's so important now, and I think that's where you get into kind of the goal of the goal. Like what is the goal? Is that really the goal? Like what is it that's super important about what, you know, your decision to sell or your decision to buy? What is it? What is it really? And I think a lot of agents don't know how to dive really deep to have that conversation. And to me, it's so important. It was, I'm reading, this would be a good one. You'd like this one. It's Dan Heath, you know, Chip and Dan Heath, but this one's just Dan. And did you ever read Switch? Chip and Dan Heath, the book's switch, it was Green Book. Anyway, it cannot allow back. But this one, it's called Reset. And it's just

45:57Dan Heath Reset. And it's talking about, you know, a couple of things in there, like, you know, even the first chapter is, you know, things from struggle, you know, and doing anything with the company, you know, you get back on the front lines, right? You get back close to the customer, and how the work is really done. But he had a point in there that he was talking about, that he was talking about the goal of the goal. What's the goal of the goal? Right? They say, well, what's the goal? But what's really the goal? Getting down to, you know, the light is deeper down to really what it is. And the example he gave was like, there was, there was his mother that wanted to get more fit to spend, because she wanted to spend more time with her kids. So she thought she had to get more fit. And I think she was battling cancer. She's doing some things to where, if she was to go get more fit, right? And it's not saying that she shouldn't put those things in, but she needs to go spend more time. That was the goal. The goal was to spend more time with her kids, because she was battling illness. She just wants as much time with them as possible. And

47:01she thought she had to get more fit for that to be true. And if she would have done that, she would have spent less time with her kids, because she would have spent more time trying to get to get more fit. And so it was all about spending more time with the kids, no matter what was happening. So like, when she was sick and thrown up or whatever, they're playing board games, right? So she goes, I can throw up in a bucket and still play board games with my kids. And so really understanding what is the real goal. And I think, you know, for agents, it goes back to being just a true expert, that true expert advisor, being able to listen to what they're trying to accomplish, what they're really trying to accomplish, and then being able to advise them, you know, based upon that. But with like what you said, what's the gameplay, what's the strategy? And then let's go execute it. Let me be here to execute it with you, because Grocks are going to execute for you. That's a cool thing is just like we're all, well, we're all wonderfully and uniquely made. So is every real estate transaction. That's one thing you can't, and even in that in person,

48:02you know, while my goal is to scale virtual and go into, go into the tap, or go into Miami, as a team and do that virtual, I won't have one initial coaching goal session, not in person. And I've watched it statistically. If I do, there's a good chance that the fall off is bigger, because there's still that personal connection that's made, you know, I call it vibing. Vibing's a big thing for me, but you can't really do that. And if you've got a relationship, it's already there, then you can, you can vibe on Zoom or whatever. But if you're really trying to establish some things and really trying to read each other's feelings, read each other's thoughts, get go layers that you're talking about. You can't do that, not sit in front of somebody, not as effectively as any other way. I just don't see it. And I think if you're big on relationships and real estate, you're going to win no matter what technologies out there. Yeah, it's one of the things that won't change. It was really good question, right, to be thinking about, came from a

49:04Bayzo's question, right? You'd always say, you know, you guys asked me what's what's going to change, and that's not the right question. The question you should be asking is what's not going to change. And deepening of relationships, the local knowledge and expertise, that stuff's not going to change. Brother, always appreciate it. Appreciate it. Vibing with you. And man, we always love catching up and appreciate you jumping in here at an attenna value and how to navigate, you know, the current season that we're that we're all in. Man, I appreciate you sticking. We move for so many seasons. There's a guitar right there that's got a brown stripe on it. You sent that to me in 2021. It's even actually got a team name that's different than my current team name. We've been so we've been through several seasons. We've been through some seasons. Brother, I appreciate you. And keep rocking. See you bro. See you. That's a wrap for today. I hope you got something valuable from this episode. If you did,

50:07hit follow and visit johnkitchen.coach for more ways we can work together. See you on the next episode.