Mixed Blessings (Season 3, Episode 23)

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1:05at IXLlearning.com slash audio. Visit IXLlearning.com slash audio to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Oh, could this vintage store be any cuter? Right. And the best part? They accept discover. Accept discover? In a little place like this? I don't think so, Jennifer. Oh yeah, huh. Discover's accepted where I like to shop. Come on, baby. Get with the times. Right. So we shouldn't get the parachute pants? These are making a comeback. I think. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. Based on the February 2025 Nilsen report. Hello, mother. Hello, Papa cheesecake. How are you? I'm well. How are you, doll?

2:05I'm wonderful. You know what? I never call you, doll. I'll take it. Call me doll every time. No, no, your Papa. I'm Papa. You're right. That's correct. Yeah, I'm so happy to see you. I love seeing you because you're my friend. You're my friend. You're my colleague and my friend, isn't that nice? It's so it's my favorite thing about it. We're the beautiful work relationship, don't we? We really do. It's just we have a beautiful friendship and a beautiful work. Friendship. CK's, I got her. She's mine. She's mine. So what are we talking about today? All right, we're talking season three, episode 23, mixed blessings. Written by Christopher Lloyd, directed by Terry Hughes, original air date, March 19th, 1988. You want to just dive right in? Yeah, we open with exterior traditional. So we open in the living room. Dorothy's reading a magazine. Now Blanche comes in by herself at first. She's been jogging. She's out of breath.

3:05She's leaning against the door frame. And all I can think of is Dirk must be back. Thanks. There must be another date with Dirk. That's right. That's exactly what you're reminding me. I'm just going to stop watch. She's clocking herself. Yeah. But right behind her is Rose. So far, Chuck. Oh, come on. Now what is going on? Why are you guys on this sudden exercise, kid? The Harlem twins have asked Rose and me to spend next weekend with them. Cruising in the Bahamas. Oh, so you're trying to lose weight? Oh, more than lose weight, Dorothy. We're giving ourselves a total makeover. I'm in charge of fitness. Blanche is in charge of beauty. Who's in charge of distracting the twins while the two of you have your swimsuits on? And I love this. It's kind of a relief to hear Dorothy insult their looks for once. It's truly damn. Damn, it's a good shade. But here's my question. I want to know more about these Harlem twins. How old are they? How good-looking? Like, are they going to the gym to do their crunches for taking their shirts off in front of the girls? We probably have those stock character actors coming in. Yeah. Whenever it's two guys, you see they're like the twin brothers.

4:07Yeah, yeah. But they're just, I'm picturing some... Like Robin Bob, remember them? Yeah, yeah, like that. Or just some like, you know, perfectly respectable, but a little ponchy, but a little agy. It's just so funny that women, the pressure on women to be beautiful and stable. You know these men aren't like- Oh, you've lost me. I don't know what you mean. You know what? Let me explain it to you another way. I'm going to mansplain this to you. Just to make sure you really get it. Okay. The thing about women in our society is that they are really good for one thing. And that's beauty. And that never goes away. Well, I thought you were going to say making babies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that too. Not after a certain age. That's cool. I mean, it's amazed I'm still allowed to live. I was surprised to find you at the booth today, but here we are. Okay. But yeah, they're going off with the Harlem twins for the weekend's vomit. We hear a car horn. Sophia Sparrance. Yep, out of her bed room. Like her room is on fire. Room on fire. She's going to Epcot, kids. There's my ride. I'm off to Epcot.

5:08Wait a minute, Ma. Where's your overnight bag? Who needs a bag? We get on the bus. We play cards till we get there. We sleep in a hotel. We turn around and come back. You go all the way to Epcot and you never look at the exhibits? Please, I'm 82 years old. I'm interested in technology in the year 2000. I still away, go. Now, my question here was, are we getting rid of a still for the episode because she had so many lines last week? Maybe they do this. They give it like one-on-one off. They give her breaks. What I do, I forgot this until the episode progresses. What they love to do with Sophia, which I think is a really useful trick, is they send her away. They bring in people who are new to the space and then they bring Sophia back at an inopportune moment. I love that. We've seen that a bunch. Yes, exactly. She's headed there. She's going to Epcot. Yeah, it's funny because they make a joke on the way out where it's like, Sophia, you don't even look at the exhibits and she goes, I'm 82. I'm interested in technology from the year 2000.

6:08Now, obviously it's 2020, but I was trying to imagine Sophia navigating an iPhone. Yeah, probably very similar to what it looks like when I try to navigate an iPhone. But I loved this line, too, because I had to do a triple take because think about it, that year loomed large for so many of us. Well, let me tell you this. We are now twice as far away from the year 2000 as they were when Sophia said that line. I know. It's so strange to be doing a retrospective on something that they hadn't experienced, but we have. Yeah, totally. Totally. So she leaves and then Rose and Blanche decide to take each other's measurements. And I love that. This is so good. Describes her body as an hourglass figure. As long as we're resting, Blanche, we might as well take measurements. OK. Do me first. One thing I know for sure, I have not lost my hourglass figure. It looks like somebody poured about 90 minutes of extra sand in the glass. You're just jealous of the doth, or you know it? I know it, and Rose knows it, don't you, Rose.

7:10It's neat the way the tapes are different color at this end. I haven't had this much off the spool since I measured the couch for slip covers. And the delivery of Betty White is just a, it's so neat the way the tapes are different color at this end. And we all know exactly what that means. We know exactly what that means. When you pull the tape measure all the way to the end, that means more. It means more inches. Exactly. That means a lot more inches. It's so funny. Just as Blanche is about to measure Rose, the doorbell rings. Yes. Dorothy goes to get it, and it's Michael. Well, your boyfriend. And second Michael. He's very cute. I love this guy. Remember the time that Rose's daughter was there, and he saxophone the pants off of her? Yes. What do you mean second Michael? Because there was a different Michael. I think, I thought it was the same actor, just not with the mustache and the curly hair. It's that actor, but the first Michael was a different, you know, he's in three episodes and the first one was a different, the one that saxophone the pants off of that poor dumb flat chested girl was a different actor. Oh. Yeah.

8:11I'm not into Michael, so. You know, my friend Adam, the walking the sword, the walking encyclopedia of the Golden Girls, will be very mad if I got any of that wrong, you will know. Okay. All right. I hope I got a pass, because nope. I didn't realize that. Mother, you definitely get a pass. Okay. Yeah. Can do no wrong. Well, Michael breaks the news that he's getting married. What the fuck with these children who are all like, so Dorothy, we learn in this moment, has never heard of this girlfriend. Right. Didn't know that Michael was dating anybody. Not only, he's not there to introduce the girlfriend. He's getting married. Yeah. And she's, you know, she doesn't say anything. She doesn't say anything. She's a little surprised, shocked, taken it back. And this makes me laugh. You know, the girls like, when did they get to meet Lorraine? And Michael basically has invited her over already. Yeah. He asked if it's okay, but he's already invited her. He's invited himself over too. I didn't know there too, that I'm like, Michael, you didn't call first, but the writers of all these people are in and out of the sense, like a hotel. The garage renovation didn't work, Michael.

9:13It didn't go through, girl. The minks are back in there. So, yeah. Where are you staying? You got to be real careful, too, when you're walking through the portal, because I don't know if you know this, but in order to get to the actual garage, you got to take the portal through the kitchen. Exactly. Yeah. So, you know, he says, listen, there's something else you should know. Before you do, Mom, there is something about her you should know. Lorraine is kind of black. What is that mean, kind of black? I mean, that's like being kind of Spanish, you know, either you are, or you are. She is. Oh, God. How they have Dorothy physically reacting is so troublesome. It's so awful, because she just says, she's like, oh, God. But it's also so antithetical to who Dorothy is. That's what I'm saying. It makes no sense. It makes no sense. Barbara Thorjike.

10:13Anybody? I know. And like, it's just that, you know, I think they're trying to have a conversation about race, which I appreciate. I appreciate. Yeah. And it's, you know, I guess it's hard to put yourself in the mindset of 1987 or whatever this was. Yeah. Like, there's just no world in which the character Dorothy would care at all about Michael marrying a black woman. Right. And it kind of weakens the dichotomy between the two women coming up about who is upset about the race of the other and who is upset about the age. And at this moment, it goes away quickly. Well, I just want to say, it makes me wonder the construction of the seasons of this show, because this would make so much more sense for Blanche's character, but we just had a Blanche's kid episode. Yeah. So I just wonder, like, why even for Rose, this would make more sense. I don't really, I mean, maybe it's because Sophia's going to come back in and they're going to give her what they think are some zingers, that are vaguely racist.

11:14And so maybe they wanted that one too, but it just is so inauthentic to the character of Dorothy. I agree. And then they try to dorth arise her, which is the Dorothy were used to. Yeah. And she's like, Mom, you're not upset about this. She says, no, I'm not upset. It's just that it's an awful lot to digest at once. Yeah. Which is not untrue. She's just found out, first of all, he's at the doorstep. Right. Then he tells her that he's engaged and, you know, and he says he really loves her and she's like, that's all that matters. She's like, I mean it. Which I love to hear. Yeah. I'm very happy for you. You know, if she did have a moment, it's long gone, long gone. It's recently gone, but it's just, it disappointed me that that was the initial reaction. Yeah. And now, I think it's totally fine to be super pissed that your kid is like just telling you that he's in, that he's getting married and you've never even heard of this girlfriend. Shocked, but maybe not upset. I don't know. If this were me and Daisy and Daisy were just, well, there's, there's the other issue. Yeah. In this world, in this patriarchal society we've created as a younger woman when, when

12:19my ex has been proposed, you know, he did, he did ask my dad's permission. Yeah. You know, and that's something that a lot of women experienced, you know, but because it's, it's just kind of sexist because it's reversed. Right. Was that important to you? I think at the time it was because I was, I know I was young and it feels like sweet and traditional. Right. And now it, yeah. Different set. If I ever get married again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's obviously not. But it's funny that you say. It's important to me. Like, I guess I have to say, I don't know, you know, Daisy's 12, so like this is so far away. I would feel if her partner would have called us and say and asked for her hand. I think my response would be, that is not for me to answer. Thank you for letting me know that you're going to propose or whatever, you know, like because we have no mention of Lorraine's father. Right. And, you know, who knows if Michael did that? Yeah. I probably not. I don't, maybe he did.

13:20I don't know because I think Michael doesn't play by the rule. I think the mother, because the mother does, okay, because Lorraine's mother does know about Michael. She's just never met him. Yes. She knows exactly. So maybe he asked, maybe he did ask the dad, maybe like, you know, this is the 80s. People are texting every day, like maybe they didn't, and he's not the musician on the road. Right. But it's not surprising to me that he didn't tell his mother because, you know, certainly in the 80s, you're probably not going to go to the mother, you know, you know, who are you dating? Yeah, but it's only been four months and they're moving fast. Moving fast. Yeah. And he, again, how about this? You could say, why didn't you tell me, except he did try to by doing it in person, because you could just as easily, like if you're committed to misunderstanding someone, you could twist the facts to confirm your bias, right? Yes. So you know that all she said, well, you know, you should have called, you know, and said he's trying to do it in person. I guess that's your, I'm just surprised that they're not in touch enough that she didn't know that he was dating somebody. But it's Michael. He's kind of flaky. He's flaky.

14:20Yeah. He's saxophoning the pants off girls all over town. Your little one grew three inches overnight, adorable, also expensive. Sell their pint-sized pieces on D-pop and list them in minutes with no selling fees, because somewhere, a dad refuses to pay full price for the clothes his kid will outgrow tomorrow, and he's ready to buy your son's entire wardrobe right now. Consider your future growth-bird budget secured. Start selling on D-pop, where taste recognizes taste. Name a processing fees and boosting fees still apply. See website for details. So next scene, we're in the kitchen. Look, this moment took me out. I know. Because remember, like Blanche and Rose are getting ready to go on this date with the total makeover. The Torquelson twins or whatever they are, and they're doing a total makeover. So Blanche has got a hot towel over Rose's face. Yes. Then puts a mirror in front of her. Now door of the enters just before Blanche takes the towel off of Rose. Blanche, how much longer do I have to have this hot towel on my face?

15:23Now just be patient, Rose. When I tell you to remove this towel, you are going to see what a dramatic difference. Blanche's miracle beauty treatment is made already, honey. You will be transformed into a totally new woman. Okay, you ready? One, two, three. Oh, my God, I look horrible. Oh, Dorothy, you. I'm sorry, Rose, I forgot it was a full moment. Dorothy is standing behind Rose and that she real, oh Dorothy, it's you. I was screaming. Oh, God. We all were right there with you. And like, poor Bee, just it would move. I know. But what's great is, you know, I love my hump bell tower jokes, that this is also wonderful. She says, I'm sorry, Rose. I'm sorry, I forgot it was a full moon. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So Dorothy grabs a picture of lemonade and heads from the kitchen to the living room. She's looking lovely, I think, in a blue sweater and gray skirt. She looks great. She's nervous, though, because she is about to me, Lorraine. And like, not excited. And like, you know, every other time we've seen Dorothy meeting like one of her kids, you

16:27know, partners or whatever, she's excited, but she's nervous about meeting Lorraine. I love this. So Rose says, can I ask a dumb question, Dorothy, better than anyone I know. Again, something I used to this time. It's iconic. It's classic. Yes. Hello, you must be Michael's mother. And you must be Lorraine's mother. We weren't expecting you until tomorrow. What do you think, Ma? Is she beautiful? Wow. He's really getting along great with his future mother-in-law. Oh. Rose, that's Lorraine, you idiot. Lorraine, I'm terribly sorry. Oh, that's all right. A lot of people are confused by the age difference. You see, I am 44 years old. Wow, this is great. I was afraid we wouldn't have anything in college. Walks over to Lorraine, and they have a passionate kiss to which it cuts to Rose. Oh, wow. He's really getting along great with his future mother-in-law. Like, when Rose is good, she's good. When Rose is on, she's on. You know? You know, thank you for Christopher Lloyd.

17:28Funny. There is an age gap, because we find out soon that he's 23. Right. And we also learn that she's a singer. She sings with Michael's band. That's how they met Rose. But you know all the great oldies. Like Rose, I feel like Rose is actually the one that had this stroke that broke the filter in her brain. Oh, well. It could be an argument made for sure. Yeah, she just has no idea. That's not that hay wagon a few times. Well, I love that blanche. I love blanche in the scene, because we already know that blanche has good manners. Yes. And she is the one keeping this boat sailing. Yes. Do you know what I mean? She's keeping the polite, the niceties going, right? And she's going to show Lorraine to where to put her things. That's right. Now, we are going to be told that Dorothy is having a reaction to Lorraine's age, right? Yes. So she wants to be alone in the living room with Michael. That's right. And the only other person in the room is Rose. Yeah. Lorraine, why don't I just show you where to put your things? Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Blanche. Rose, would you excuse us? Sure. Where are you going? No, where.

18:28Get out. It's. We haven't get out, Rose. So good. Yes. I just love it. So Dorothy and Michael are alone in the living room. Yeah, he asked her if there's something wrong. He can tell. Well, Dorothy is just like, I just hate this so much because Dorothy is like saying that now she or her big problem is the age difference, which in my mind, in this weird world where Dorothy would care at all that Lorraine is black, the age thing is just to stand in for how she really feels about her being black. Oh, you think? I don't think so. I feel like, look, without trying to read too much into it, I think that if Dorothy has a problem with this because Lorraine is black, she knows she can't actually say that. Right. But now she's feeling like she's got a legitimate claim because like, because in what world does anybody really care? Like do you buy the age thing? Would that matter to you? To judge it? Like she is absolutely not. For myself, it's something I do think about just because I am fascinated, you know, now a woman of a certain age, if I were to, like, how young is too young for me?

19:33Now, there's different kinds of dating, right? But we're talking dating is one thing, getting married. I do get it. Like for me, I would have this fear of, are they going to grow tired of me? Are they going to, are they going to not be attracted to me as I age because they're always going to be that much younger than me? Chances are, if, you know, nature takes its course, I'm going to die before my spouse. And oh, gosh, I think I'm going to take that potion. I hate you. You know what I mean? Like I'm going to die before my spouse. And you know, I'd be worried for them. But the biggest thing for me is why I, obviously, if it was right, all these, for me, all the rules would go out the window. But for me, there is a, the reason why I like dating people within a certain age bracket of my age is I love having all those similar references from childhood that you can kind of commiserate about and having, having, now they can be completely different because I don't want me, you know, I mean, but I do, I do like, there's a comfort in having that shared experience to me.

20:34What's interesting about that and what I've been thinking about in the Michael and Lorraine relationship is, look, Dorothy, they were never going to have a traditional relationship as, as you think they're not like living in Scarst Hill, they're not probably going to like, you know, have the traditional family and like, she's a, quote, older mother. And they're, they're traveling musicians. Yeah. Right? So like, the music in that experience is Michael and Lorraine's like shared experience. Yeah. Yes, maybe two, there's an argument to be made that maybe Dorothy is actually feeling threatened that Lorraine is going to be more of a mother figure and might replace her. Yeah. They don't, they don't, they don't explore that. I do agree with you that this is a much longer conversation and deeper episode than they have in the 22, 23 minutes. Yes. Yes. Exactly. So Dorothy and Michael have a fight. They have a fight. Dorothy's just not going to come around. Michael can't understand why she's like, why does she even care about this? I can't believe you're making such a big deal out of this. What about what she said last night, huh? There's only one thing that matters in a marriage and that's if two people love each other.

21:35Yeah. Well, this is different. What makes it different is that you're my son and I don't want to see you make a big mistake. Oh, so you're saying you think this is a big mistake? I'm not sure what I'm saying for someone is not sure what she's saying. You're certainly saying a hell of a lot. Listen, Michael, you know, I'm beginning to think the big mistake was coming here in the first place. And this made me laugh because I'm like, I love how sitcom fights ratchet up from zero to a hundred and two seconds flat. Well, we don't like, you know, left hook, Sophia, what a smacked his mouth, you know? I mean, let's let's let's we forget backstabbing Jezebel. Exactly. Well, but this is always the thing with the kids. It was the same with Rebecca. Mama. I made a big mistake in coming here like, you know, you're doing it again, Mama. You're doing it again, Mama. Oh, Mama. It's so pretty. I love you. I love you. Mama. I hate it. I love it. It was awful. Oh, Patrick. Stop. I love how you sit and cross like it in a chair, Patrick. That's a great Becky.

22:35Thank you. Oh, my God. So listen, I've got a little ditty on the actress who plays Lorraine. Oh, tell me everything. All right. She's cakes. Her name is Rosalind Cash. She was born in Atlantic City on December 31, 1938. Happy New Year's Eve. There you go. So when she filmed this or when this aired, she would have been 50. Oh, wow. Okay. So she moved to New York in her teens. She graduated with honors from Atlantic City High School in 1956, and she attended City College of New York. Yes. Yes. She made her debut on Broadway in the Wayward Stork in 1966 and appeared in productions such as Fiorello, ceremonies in Dark Old Men, Bozeman and Lena, and in London, she performed in the class of Miss McMichael with Glenta Jackson. Ooh. Miss Cash was a founding member of the Negro Ensemble company. She was equally at home in musicals and in classics, portraying Gunnar Hill to James Earl Jones' King Lear for the New York Shakes Festival in 1973. Wow. Joseph Papp. Snaps. I love this new beat poll.

23:37I don't know. I'm learning about you. I do look a little like a beat poll today. A little bit. Yeah. So after her initial success, she moved back and forth between theater and films in Hollywood. She repeatedly battled stereotype, calling herself a one-lady movement. She was not afraid to speak her mind, realizing that as an actress, if you yell out enough someone will listen, maybe I've handled it all wrong, but I've gotten out of it what I wanted to get out of it, she said, in discussing her career. That's a sense of being true to myself. I came to a point where I said, I know there are things I am not going to do for money. I'm not good at playing stereotypes, she said. I don't ingratiate myself to the powers that be as some nice negro colored abiding person. You cannot depend on me to be that negro that you have come to know and love that you're used to. End quote. Roslyn Cash was nominated for an Emmy for her work on Go Tell It On The Mountain, and she earned the Black America Cinema Society's Phoenix Award for Achievement in Motion Pictures and was inducted into the Black filmmakers Hall of Fame in 1992.

24:37Ooh. A woman of many interests, the actress wrote poetry, painted, played guitar, cooked, soared, and gardened at the Las Felas home she shared with multimedia artist Philippe. Roslyn Cash died on October 31, 1995 at Theater Sinal Medical Center in Los Angeles from cancer. She was 56 years old, like right after this. Right after, yeah. Isn't that awful? That is awful. And she looks familiar like she's one of those faces that you've seen in a bunch of videos. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, that's my little ditty on your eye. I love her. May she rest. Yes. Two good and co-coffee creamers are made with farm fresh cream, real milk, and contain three grams of sugar per serving. That's 40% less than the five grams per serving in leading traditional coffee creamers. For a rich, delicious experience, whether you enjoy your coffee hot, cold, bold, or frothy, two good coffee creamers make every sip a good one. Two good coffee creamers, real goodness in every sip. And then at your local croagher in the creamer aisle.

25:41So next scene, we're in the kitchen. Dorothy can't sleep. She's thinking about Michael and the rain. Blanch and Rose are also sitting there in their robes. Yeah. Blanch is warning her. As if they didn't experience the Becky Jermet thing. Right. Because, okay, Blanch has listened Dorothy just a word of caution. I almost lost my Becky when I stuck my nose into her business. It's not worth it. And I the only one who remembers how that episode ends. She stuck her nose into Becky's business, told her that guy was a piece of shit. Becky left and was back five minutes later saying, oh my god, mama, you're right. And if you hadn't said that, I probably would still be with this piece of shit. Blanch, you're giving the wrong advice here. But it's also the Paris model thing, members. They didn't speak for four years. So like anytime she just stuck her nose in Becky's business, you know, she almost loses her. But my point is she's telling it like it's new news. Uh-huh. And like they literally lived through it. This is four weeks ago. That's the second I go. Yeah. And it's also like Dorothy, you're just on the wrong side of this. Yeah. Like that's the reason, like I think that like the problem I'm having with Dorothy in this

26:44episode is I want her to say like, this is how I feel. I know my feelings are wrong. Yeah. But I know my feelings are not like, this is my problem and I have to get over it. But this is how I feel right now. Yeah. She's acting as though she's right and she's not. Yeah. And I have here Patrick, take it away. I don't have it in me. Now listen, Rose tells us a story the same day happened with the Vickbatter's back in St. Olaf. Because you know, as we all know, Gretchen had a thing for Buddy, Mr. Vickbatter did not approve of this. He did his best to keep them apart. One day he came home early and found Gretchen and Buddy and how does she say at an indelicate situation suddenly Blanche is interested. Mm-hmm. What did he do? Well, he yelled at them to stop, but they wouldn't, so he turned the hose on. He turned the hose on him? What are you doing in the front yard? Oh, wait, wait a minute, wait a minute, Rose. Buddy and Gretchen weren't people who were there. Of course not. They were dogs.

27:46You know, Rose, sometimes I wish somebody had turned the hose on your parents. That is funny. Funny and well delivered. Good job, Rose. Yeah, great. You did a great job. Thank you so much. I'm going to live another day because it didn't have to do with you. Thank you so much. Don't make me go. I don't want to get all into the great herring war, not again. I can't, not today, mother. So Lorraine comes into the kitchen wearing a beautiful rose gold outfish. Well, she looks great and the thing is she's experiencing the authentic Miami because she's freezing. Yeah. You know what I mean? She's really you. Do I know? I have here the funniest line of the show. I've forgotten how cool it gets here this time of year. You know, you picked the right time to visit another month that would be very humid. You don't know humid till you've been in St. Louis in mid-August. No, I hear it gets very, very humid though, especially in mid-August. Incredibly humid. It is hot, sticky. Why the hell are you marrying my son?

28:47I'm glad one of us finally brought that up. She says, you know, I will say that Beatrice delivery of it is fighting but inviting at the same time. Yeah. Because she's resigned. I mean, she wants to talk to the right and almost like her motivation is like make me want this for you. Yeah. Yeah. You know, make, make change my mind here. And to, you know, to your point, I guess she does have the two, the two issues because she says Dorothy, I don't blame you for having your doubts. Yeah. And Dorothy's like, I have more than doubts. Yeah. I look at the two. Thank you. It was so good. I have more than doubts. I look at the two of you. I see so many differences. He is 23. You are 44. He's white. You're black. He is 23. You are 44. Now, we're to assume the age is the real issue here, but she does bring up their race. You know, it's one of those things I've been thinking about too. It's like, I'm not trying to compare the black experience and the gay experience. I'm a gay person. So I just want to say, sometimes like what you will hear from parents of gay kids as they're

29:49coming out is like, it's not that I don't accept you. I just don't want the world to be harder for you. And I wonder if that is also kind of what Dorothy is applying at that. I thought of that, but you know, she doesn't say that. She doesn't say it. Wouldn't it be fun to see Dorothy being excited about this? Like the other. To your point, it's just, it's not in keeping with her go to hell, Barbathorn day. Right. Exactly. It's just so not her. Right. It's not her that we've come to know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But she says she just can't get past that one, meaning the age, all right. Yes, I guess I'm inspired to talk about because I was married 20 years. So I said, we find out Lorraine was married for 20 years, but they were never in love. And she calls him the boy next door. Yeah, yeah. And she's all the friends and family thought on paper, basically, that they were the perfect couple. And she says, you know, we were married, we stayed married for 20 years, but I don't think we were ever in love. It just seemed as though we should be. And she says she learned something from that. It doesn't matter what anybody thinks. It's how you feel about each other and I'm making any sense.

30:50Now I will say this, I don't let my divorce define me in the sense that I still don't overall think there's anything wrong with my approach of what I believe love is. Yeah, of course. And the only thing that I disagree with here is I don't think long term love, the kind of love where maybe you're going to consider getting married. Well, of course, you have feelings. I believe that love is not a feeling. It's behavior. Yeah, you know, that feelings are dopamine and oxytocin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So later, I'm just to say it now, when Lorraine's mother talks about it's just a phase, in part, she's not wrong because dopamine and oxytocin and love chemicals are a phase. That's what we call it, the honeymoon phase. But that's why when you look at their relationship, you're like, look at how much they have in comment. Exactly. They seem to have a lot of shared values. Yeah. They love music. They love travel. Yeah. They love, you know, they love their families. They're both close to their moms, like, yeah, there's so much of that relationship to

31:52look at and say when the loves chemicals die down, they're going to have a really fun, happy life together because they are interested in the same thing. Yeah. I agree with you. Now, my big thing here was that, you know, Lorraine says she was married to the boy next door. She tells Dorothy that whole story and Dorothy relates by saying, I was once married to the boy next door. I'm like, we're going to dance. That's when? What boy? Who were you married to before you were married? I was married to Dan Dorothy. I was married to Dan Dorothy. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. But, you know, Dorothy gets to the end of her story and Lorraine is sort of like, that means we have your blessing. I'd like to say yes, but I can't. I mean, everything you've said is logical, but I'm a mother and a mother doesn't have to be logical. I'm awfully sorry. I just don't approve. I'm sorry. You feel that way. Fuck you, Dorothy. We don't need your approval. I mean, it's that kind of thing where, like, I'm going to say that Dorothy went through the portal to get to the garage and came back broken.

32:52You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm going to give Dorothy this one off episode to be the worst version of herself for whatever reason. Yeah. You know? Because I'm just sort of like, it's like what you're saying. Yeah. It's like, you know, once again, coming from the gay experience, it's just like, well, when you're, when as a gay person you fall in love and your parents don't support it, then you just don't invite them to the wedding and you never fucking talk to them again. Well, end of the day. Yeah. It's going to happen here, Dorothy. And also, it's just so strange to me because this is someone who you would think would not approve of something if there was a reason that did make sense, such as verbal emotional and who knows physical abuse, like the kind of abuse that Jeremy inflicted upon Rebecca. Yeah. Yes. Yes. That's something to object to. Yes. And that's the kind of thing, too, where you say, like, Becky, if you don't get out of this, like, I don't, you know, like, I want to go back to the age thing because it's a thought I've had for a long time. Yeah. But in my point, you know, race, age, that, that is not a reason. And let me say this, while I said I like to have similar references and how, you know,

33:54like, if it was the right person, yeah, I'd be all for it, age difference, age difference be damned. I don't know. That could happen to me. Totally. On either end of the spectrum. Yeah. And what I want to say about that is, if we are here on earth, think about how long humans have been on this floating blue marble, okay? If we're here at the same time, guess what? We're close in age. That's true. Okay. Wow. My blown mother. That's that that's true. Yeah. It's not so big a deal. I will like to, there's an age of consent that we should consider and, you know, I know what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Look, we got to go to the next scene because I love this so fucking much. Yeah. Dorothy is in the living room, dusting. Rage dusting. Yeah. With dust in their dusting. Exactly. It's a sensitive minute. But first before I remembered what was coming, I'm like, this is the weirdest thing to have Dorothy doing. I know. You know what I mean? I know. Like just dusting the living room. And also with like, lunches props. I'm guessing. Literally. Literally.

34:55Handcuffs in one hand, the duster in the other. But her and Michael are just like in the living room, just like fighting. Like, what's in it? Michael is like, what is your problem? You almost said fucking. What is your, what's your fucking problem, mom? Hey, Dad. What's your fucking problem? What's your fucking problem, dad? Dad was right. Exactly. Dad wouldn't care. You know what? You imagine. Chrissy, my other mom would have been fine with this. How dare I note Christopher Lloyd, but can you give a, can you throw Stan in Dorothy's face right about now? Exactly. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. The doorbell rings. Dorothy goes to get it. It's Lorraine's mother and sister. Now, my favorite part about this is Dorothy opens the door and these women barge in like they own the place. Fabulous. I love it so much. Hello. We're a little early. I'm Greta Wagner. And these are my sisters, Trudy and Libby. I'm so sorry. The house is such a mess. Why it's neater than I'll make ever gets ours. I'd hire you any time. They barged in because they thought that Dorothy was just the help, you know?

35:57Yeah. And I loved that these women, I love that Greta, the mom and the sisters are kind of bougie. They're like upper class women, you know, of like a certain means and they come in and it's like, I just love, like clearly she's got more money than Dorothy. Like I bet Greta doesn't have roommates, you know? Yeah. And I love that. I do love this power shift. And turning the trope on its head. Yeah. Which is very important. Yeah. So. I've got a ditty on Greta. Patrick, I'd love to hear it. Fuck you Trudy and Libby. Fuck you Trudy and Libby. Only the moms are getting ditty's here. So Virginia Capers plays Greta, Lorraine's mom. She was born in Sumter South Carolina in 1925. There's not much written about her early life, but we know she attended Howard University before going on to study voice at Juilliard. Damn. Like she's a singer. Love that. So she made her Broadway debut in 1957 in a show called Jamaica. One notable early film role came in 1972 in Lady Sings the Blues. Oh yeah. She played the mother to Diana Ross's Billy Holiday.

36:59Oh, that's cool. Yeah. I've seen her. There's one other place you're going to know. Okay. Okay. In 1973, she earned an Emmy nomination for a guest spot on a TV show called Otmanix. Are you ready for this? Yep. 1974, she won the Tony Award for best lead actress in the musical for playing Lina Younger in the musical Raisin, which was the musical version of Raisin in the Sun. Now in his review for the show for the New York Times, Clive Barnes called her, quote, a vast and loving Gibraltar of a woman and said she was, quote, tremendous ingest of it. Every sense you can use the word. Like just a total commanding stage present. She loves this recording, by the way, we've been recording at our house all the time. In the early 80s, she founded Lotha yet players, which is a reputory company for black actors in Los Angeles. Happy list. Over the course of her career, she won several awards in addition to her Tony, including the National Black Theater Festival Living Legend Award. The Paul Robinson Pioneer Award and an NAACP Image Award for theater excellence.

38:00Come on. I mean, incredible, right? She would go on to make dozens of film and countless TV appearances in her career, including a recurring role in the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, but she never really became a household name. No. Virginia Capers died on May 6, 2004 from complications from pneumonia. May she rest? May she rest? Well, at this moment, Blanche and Rose come into the living room from the kitchen, wearing face masks for their beauty regimen, but it makes it look like they're in blackface. Yeah. And it's one of those tricky things we've talked about. This is not something that we would ever condone now. And it's nothing you would never see this on a TV show today. Yeah. And so do better. Of course. We're in family like has a reaction. Right. But there's so much happening in this scene where like, introductions are being made. The important part to note, though, is what we learn here is that Lorraine's mother is not upset about the age difference when she meets Michael. Yes. This is Michael. Yes. Come on, Mama, we talked about this. I told you he was younger. Yes, but you sure didn't tell me he was white.

39:01No daughter of mine is marrying some skinny white boy. Wait a minute, wait a minute, just who are you calling a skinny white boy? I think she met Michael. You got that right. Oh, it was easy. Shut up, Rose. There's my shut up, Rose. I mean, it's a shut up Rose for the ages. It's so good. My note here is literally best shut up Rose so far in the series. And this is such a white person point of view in my opinion. Yeah. When she tells Greta, she did Lorraine's mother, she says, look, race is not even an issue. I'm like, yeah, but I can see where it absolutely is for this black woman. Yes. That's African American woman. Right. Do you know what I mean? Yes. Yeah. All right. But it's funny because Greta says, you know, you got something against black people. Of course not. And I resent the insimuation. We firmly believe that all men were created equal. Now, Rose, just not knowing, just like not getting the context, because that's a bunch of baloney.

40:01And like everyone knows that Rose absolutely does not mean that in a racial context, which just doesn't have the smarts to understand that that's going to, that's how it's going to be interpreted. Uh-huh. Because to look at the horror on Dorothy's face, it's a very well-commetically constructed moment that has to be played perfectly by everybody. Right. And I think is. So Dorothy then is asking Greta, so, you know, tell me like, what kind of woman, because she's stuck on this age thing, right? Yeah. So she's like, what kind of woman and for her forties, she's saying, what kind of woman in her forties possibly have in common with a boy, he's a man, but okay, in his twenties? Blanche, it's your time to shine, girl. Make your way center stage and give us that monologue. What kind of woman in her forties possibly have in common with a boy in his twenties? Six. At 20, a man is at his peak, and a woman in her forties is also at hot peaks, so when the two come together, hot damn!

41:01Hot damn! The way she says hot damn, it's so, like, I believe too that Ruma Klanahan is an actor. It's like, we, this has to be funny. None of this is going to work if it's not funny, and she is just, she's just giving all she has. That's right. And so then, Greta, you know, Lorraine's mother, this is important. Yeah, because she's saying, if you want a young man, fine, just make it a black young man. Well, I could give you 10 fine rich young black men off the top of my head. Blanche is very interested in that. Because Blanche goes from being the center of the action screaming about sex to running to the coffee table to get a pencil to get the numbers. It's great. That's why I said it was important, because if there's something we don't talk about in this country in addition to original sin, we don't talk about class, and Greta brings up rich, and so class and money are important to her, and that's okay, you know, but to your point, you know, that she's well off, and, you know, she's basically saying, you're

42:05going to marry this musician who doesn't have a lot of money. Saxophonist, you know, and that's what she means. Right. And you know, Greta, you know, Lorraine's mother is just saying, like, it's just a phase, you know. So now we get the great moment. Sophia has returned, and like, these are the setups that we love. So if he has been gone, we've all forgotten about her. Remember, like Rose and Blanche are in the mud masks, we've got Lorraine's family. Sophia had no idea Michael was even visiting let alone had a woman that is about to marry. She enters the crowd, the audience, holding our breath, holding our breath. It's just amazing. Now, she does ask this question that I will say, you know, I was going to bypass, but considering that the actress who plays Greta, with her name again, Virginia Capers. It's kind of amazing, and I wonder if they knew this, and that's why the joke is there that she won her Tony for the musical version of the reason in the sun. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. So, you know, Sophia's now just sort of like getting all the information, and Sophia

43:08is sort of on Dorothy's side, like you could find somebody your own age. Yeah, it's the first thing she says, and she's like, and it starts to get interesting, because she says no offense, but your daughter looks like she's been around the block more times than the good humor, man, and Mrs. Wagner is about to throw down. She literally says, hold my purse, those are fighting words, Greta is about to beat Sophia's ass. Like, she is compared to Estelle Getty's height. Yeah. Greta, Greta looks six feet tall in the sun, man. Don't, don't eat, don't eat. My money's on Greta. My money's totally gonna accept Rose steps in. Now, this is another like we washed up on that like deserted island Rose. Yes. Telling everybody to shut the fuck up and calm down, because Rose's whole point is like, what are we arguing about? These are two people who were in love. Shouldn't we be celebrating that? What is wrong with everybody? But also the lines they give are pretty funnily. So what, you know, Lorraine's a little long in the two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Michael's a skinny white boy. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I just love Rose for getting in the mix and like what, you know, sometimes Rose is the

44:10voice of reason. Yeah. And it's rare. So it's effective when it happens. That's right. So Greta's just about had it and Dorothy has two. They're opposed. Greta's, you know, their exit line is essentially Lorraine. You marry him and you'll regret it for the rest of your life. Yeah. Come on, girls. Dorothy, Michael, you're making a very big mistake. But like Michael and Lorraine are just, they are resolved. They are getting married and that is that. Again, this is the one I have where I'm like, I have N, Semi-Colon, A, M, C, J, E. Is that Blanche? Must be Blanche. Oh, yeah. So Blanche is saying Dorothy, their adults can do whatever they want and I love this line from Rose. Yeah. She says not necessarily. Adults aren't allowed to ride the little horsey in front of the A and P. I'm like, she makes a great point. That would be great. Oh, yeah. I would just add a second. Oh, yeah. I love it. When we go down to North Carolina to see Ben and Julie, my, my brother and sister, they have, I can't remember what the store is called. Oh, my God. It's a store where they've got a little horsey in the front of Daisy goes on and every time. Is it the Croger? Yes, it's the Croger. God damn it. I love that Croger. You love me for knowing it's Croger? I do.

45:10Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800 contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts. We're leaving today and entering a world of Mickey Mouse waving, princess meeting and greetings. Lightsaber clashing. The twilight's on tower of terror dropping. Banshee flying. Space mountain launching. Galaxy rewinding. What is the whole network of Galaxy rewinding? Fireworks igniting. World of other worlds. For whatever you love, infinite worlds await at the most magical place on earth, Walt Disney World Resort.

46:11So next scene we're in the living room, Dorothy is watching TV, Rose enters and then Blanche enters. And my note here is, Dorothy is wondering if she did the right thing. No Dorothy, you didn't do the right thing, girl. You absolutely didn't do the right fucking thing. Punishment is, don't turn off the TV, go back to watching Judgment at Nuremberg. Exactly. Exactly. That light TV show that you can unwind too. Honestly. And I have to say to you, my note is, there's Blanche buffing her, gosh darn nails. I love it. So the thing, look, I actually love this because like, Dorothy's sort of like, what's going on? Oh, Dorothy's upset about Michael and Lorraine. Really? Oh, Blanche, how would you feel if your son were marrying an older woman? Dorothy, when my son was five years old, he nearly burned down our whole town. Since then, nothing he does upsets me. Hell, he could marry Lily and Gish, and I wouldn't care. The way she says it is so funny, and I think that like, it feels like the audience wanted to let, but there's more to the story.

47:11Yeah. And she's basically saying that like ever since he did that, she doesn't care what he does, she doesn't care who he marries. And listen, he says he could marry Lily and Gish and she wouldn't care. Who is that? Lily and Gish was a silent movie film star. Oh. Yeah. But I just love knowing that like, you know what, it's a good lesson to children. Do something really bad when you're five, and then anything else you do won't matter. That's right. So the doorbell rings. It's Greta and her sisters, and you know, cooler heads are prevailing. Yeah. They felt guilty for the way things ended. But also, I think that Greta is a very smart woman, and she's like, you know what, rather than getting angry, Dorothy, nor I want this wedding to happen, let the mothers put their heads together and figure out how to stop it. Two heads have always been better than one, and let's get to work. So we're in the kitchen. Uh, we're having a cheesecake, five coffee mugs. Um, excuse me. All six of these characters are gathered around that table in a semi circle. Well, do all six of them, six coffee mugs, I guess, but I'm just saying like, nobody's in that place where the camera is.

48:12I know. Dorothy, Greta, and one of the sisters are seated at the table. The other sisters up on the stool and the lunch and rose are standing. And it's just funny that you can see the empty spot at the table where somebody should be sitting. Exactly. You know, and it just doesn't work for the shot. Yeah. I just like to look at your back. Exactly. We were comfy. Exactly. But they're all laughing. They're eating cheesecake. They're doing the thing that our girls do that we love. They're all getting along famously. Sophia comes in and they talk about Sophia like she's a puppy, which I'm like, listen, if you're going to act like that, why not? You know, and it's kind of a cute thing where like Dorothy and Greta are bonding over the fact that they both have kind of like a loving, but annoying, overbearing mother that they're taking care of back at home. Something in common. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want to say, getting to the crux of the matter, the arrogance led out of the room when Rose spills the beans that. Oh, great. The way we're all getting along. Am I going to Lorraine didn't have to do love after all? What did you say, Rose? They know.

49:12Oh, no, I promised I wouldn't tell Rose. All right. I ran into them when they were leaving. They were hitting for the all night wedding chapel on Pompano Drone. I know exactly where it is. I'm right behind you. Just this. Come on. They confided in Rose. No, Rose ran into them in the hallway, but I love in this scenario that like they weren't just like, oh, we're just going out for dinner. Like they like they got busted leaving the house and Rose like, where are you going? We're loving. Yeah. Like they like they just had to tell somebody. Also, they're going to that thing that Miami Florida is famous for an all night wedding chapel on Pompano Drone. Exactly. It's famous. We all know about it. And so everyone runs out of the house to try to get down to the chapel in time. They get there in time. Exactly. So they get to the chapel and like the insults about the kids just keep coming. I love this line from Sofia because she sees like the janitor at the chapel. Excuse me. Did a white man and a wrinkled old black woman just come in here? She meant a regal black woman and a scusy little white boy.

50:15Mom, what are you all doing here? Stopping you? What? I absolutely forbid you to get married. Same goes for me. Lorraine, he's not good enough for you. You can do better. Oh, yeah. Once the last time you took a good look at the merchandise, you're trying to move. Scusy little white boy. There's my scusy little white boy. Exactly. And then of course, Michael and Lorraine come out. Yeah. They are not married to that. Right. Bids him to get married. It's just like definitely where I forbid you. I forbid you. I've been forbidden. What is he going to be disinherited Dorothy? Look, the penny drops. Lorraine tells them very calmly and lovingly. I might add that they love their families both very much, but they also love each other. And they are getting married. So if they can't deal with that, you don't have to see them. But it also means that bump, bump, bump. I'm pregnant. Oh, Greta, can I talk to you for a minute? I was going to ask you the same thing. They're going to get married, whether we like it or not. Do you like it?

51:15No. Me neither. They're also going to have a baby whether we like it or not. Do you want to see it? Yes. Me too. So what are we going to do? What mothers have done since the beginning of time pretend that we're happy and then complain to anybody who'll listen. We're dealing with what is legitimately called a geriatric pregnancy. I'm worried for everybody. I just want Lorraine off her feet. I want her in a bed. I want her on bed rest. I'm just all of a sudden, because my whole thing was like when it was just the two of them against the world and they're just like traveling musicians and they can go to whatever they want. Now they're going to have a kid. And what's the plan for the, not suddenly I'm on Dorothy's, I'm like, what's the plan for the money? Where are you going to live? Their life's on your business. I know. It is none of my fucking business. But now they've only been together for months. My question is did they wait the trimester to tell people, which means they had sex right away. Yeah. Musicians. You know what I mean? So funny. In an alternate universe, I would love to see the developing relationship between Dorothy and Greta.

52:16Yeah. They're fabulous, right? Because you can just tell that they're totally pierced. They're both just smart, funny women who love their kids, they both want to be grandparents. You can just tell that it would be, I want that spin off. Yeah. Or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. We get to see that friendship. That's what I was saying earlier. Like, there's way too much good fodder here. Yeah. The shortness of the episode. And as far as I know, we never hear about Michael and Lorraine ever again. You know what I mean? Like, did they make it? Like, who knows? No. But so they get called in. And we have this kind of sweet moment. We're rose, of course. Like, which, she needs something old, something new, something new, something new, something new, something blue. Yeah. They missed a good opportunity to make an old joke, is all I'm saying. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But they get all of that. And, you know, she says that she's got the new taken care of that Michael gave her that. Yeah. The grandchild. And then, of course, Dorothy and Greta are bickering gently, but they're bickering over what the name of the sun, they determined it's a sun, Roger or Lamar. I know.

53:17Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, the two of them are so great in scenes together. Mm-hmm. And it seems like those two characters would be friends. Like, it would just be fun to watch that develop. And we end the show with Sophia delivering a line to a janitor. Yeah. And then, as the doors are closing, she's like, I really, I'm looking forward to Thanksgiving already. It's weird. It's like a weird button for the episode. Mm-hmm. And that's it. And my favorite, but I have to say this too. We've just dropped the B storyline entirely. Oh. What was it? I didn't even remember. It's, it's Rose and Blanche doing a full makeover. Oh, I forgot about that. I forgot about that. The Turtles and Twins. They're trying to do a, to fit in the bikinis and, you know, fitness slash beauty. Right. And the last we saw them was them, like, was it leaving the kitchen or something with their face masks? Yeah. So because of the face masks, it makes me think that whole thing was contrived specifically for that, which is a shame. Yeah. I think you're probably right. Which I don't like. Oh, cheesy. We love you. We love you. We love you.

54:17Now, go join the Facebook group. It's the Golden Girls deep dive podcast discussion group. And follow our social media. So many great videos there. Golden Girls deep dive on TikTok with Instagram. And then no deep down that Papa and mother. Yeah. We love you very much. We're so grateful for you. And you know we're proud of you. And we don't care who you marry. We don't care who you marry at all. We don't care who you marry as long as it's not a child. Exactly. And consent. Yeah. Consent. And that's, and that's legal. Mother, see mother's mothering. Mother's just mothering. All right. She's, we love you. Love you. Bye. Love.