MCC Corrections Officer Michael Thomas And His OIG Interview Related To Epstein's Death (Part 11) (3/4/26)

0:00What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off with Michael Thomas interview with the OIG inspectors. Question. Do you remember having any conversation with Control Center or the absolute tenant about the fact that those numbers are different? Thomas? No. Question. So do you remember? Were you the one who called that number? On that night? Thomas, I don't remember. Then you don't remember. Thomas, I don't remember. Question. You don't remember. And I only say this just because of everything that's surrounding this. These were the three counts prior and obviously Thomas, uh-huh. This is the kind of reason for us interviewing you. Thomas, but then also he gets cut off. Question. Do you remember? It says here. You can look at the next. So this is the A. What does that number say? Thomas 72, question whose handwriting is this?

1:01Thomas, this one is mine. That's mine. Question. So that's all yours. And you did sign this one? Thomas, yes. Question. And this is the 3am count. Thomas, uh-huh. Question. What does this say? Thomas 72. Question. All right. So do you recall a conversation with the absolute tenant with regard to the discrepancy? Thomas, I don't recall. I don't recall a conversation with redacted the discrepancy, but I'm sure that another one was sent down changing because they wanted to clear. I'm sure that another one was sent down saying 72 with the correct number on it. The person that can see that's down there definitely would have verified that. Oh, you can have the wrong number and switched it out. Question. Do you remember those speaking with the person on the phone and saying that Thomas, I don't? Question. You don't remember any conversation with them telling you you've got to do a new count, a new count slip. Thomas, I don't recall any conversation.

2:03I would be sure that he didn't just let that just go with the wrong number on there or maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. Question. Well, I think it was a she that you would have spoken to. Thomas, it's a he. Question. Oh, this person is a he. So it wouldn't have been redacted. That did this one. Thomas, what do you mean? Who would have? Can you tell me which because doesn't the absolute tenant have to take one of the counts? Can you tell me who it was that took this count at 12 a.m. Thomas, I couldn't tell by the handwriting. Well, I don't know who took it. It doesn't say who took it. It just says who prepared it. Question. Okay. Do you at all recall speaking with redacted about these counts on August 10, 2019? Thomas? No, I don't. Question. No. It's time that you're even noticing that the count, Thomas, that the count slip was wrong. Yes. This is the first time besides this is the first time he gets cut off.

3:03Would that be a big deal? If you're sending in a count slip, that's wrong though. Thomas would it be a big deal? Yeah. It would be a big deal as far as the wrong count being called in. And then the correct count slip would have been changed before the count was cleared. Question. Okay. Thomas. So I'm sure the correct count slip probably was sent down. It's just obviously not here. Question but being that it's kind of a big deal, that still doesn't spark your memory of any kind of correction to this, Thomas, no, it's not sparking my memory by any kind, but I'm sure a correct count slip would have been sent down. Question. Okay. Thomas. It would have just been left at 73 and that's the wrong number. Question. So a new count slip would have been sent down. These are any reason for them to have that count slip that was originally prepared, attached to this document, Thomas, unless it got misplaced, no. I don't know they would put that onto this document. Question. Okay.

4:04Fair enough. Or any supervisor's present or any supervisors. So you already said you didn't conduct any counts. So obviously no supervisors were present for any counts or rounds during your shift. Correct. Thomas. Or they required to be present for any counts or rounds during their shift. Thomas, they're required to take one count. I don't know which count they're required. I don't know what's the book thing, but which one they required, but are they required to take rounds in the shoe while I'm there? I don't know. Question. Okay. Thomas. I don't know if they're actually supposed to have to do one round per unit or anything like that. I really don't know. Question. So when you say they're required to take one count, do you mean in the control center? Thomas in the control center downstairs. Yes. Question. Yeah. They're supposed to take an institutional count. Thomas. Exactly. Question. But are they required to go to the shoe and physically do either a round or a count during

5:06each shift? Thomas. I don't know. Question. Did they ever do that during any of your morning, your shifts from midnight to 8 a.m.? Thomas. Did they ever come take account with me? Question. Do a round or account with you? Thomas. Yeah. I've seen them do it before. I've seen them just come. Some will count a unit from time to time. Question. Okay. Thomas. I don't recall that night, which lieutenant, but I've seen lieutenants. I'll count that unit so you don't have to worry about it. Since we'd be short-handed sometimes, if they're out there and about at that time, they'll just take it then. They'll take the three count. Like I said, it varies. There's as far as I know, there's no black and white way to do it. Question. Okay. So you don't know, Thomas, as far as he gets cut off, question, requirement saying that you know a lieutenant needs to do a count or a round. Thomas. Yeah. I don't know of any requirement. Question. So you think when people did it in the shoe, you think your understanding was that they

6:07were doing it just to help you out? Thomas. Yeah. Yes. Question. Do you recall when you worked in the shoe if there were any recent times? Like I know you worked on August 9th, do you remember it all? I know it's a different day. Thomas on the sixth, I think. Question. Do you remember at that time if a lieutenant helped or assisted with the count? Thomas, I don't. Question you don't. Thomas, I don't. Question. Fair enough. All right. So you already said we don't need to go through all these individually. Thomas. Question one by one. You said you didn't do the 12 a.m. at 3 a.m. and the 5 a.m. What conversation did you have with Noel about this during that time? Answer. I don't know. Question. I know you asked specifically about the 12 a.m. but what about it during your shift at all? Like not doing any of the counts or any of the rounds? What conversation did you have with Noel? Thomas, I don't remember having any conversation with her about it.

7:08No. So it wasn't even discussed like, hey, it's a long night. We're all tired. Let's just not do these. Thomas, I don't remember. Question no. Thomas, I don't think so. I don't remember anything like that. Question, all right. So not one of them were conducted, but no conversation with regard to it. Thomas, I don't remember any conversation with us talking about it or anything like that. Question, okay. And on the 12 a.m. at 3 a.m., 5 a.m. Did you call in the counts or did Noel call in the counts? Thomas, I don't remember who called in the counts. Question, okay. Thomas, I don't remember. It had to be either one. There's only two of us there. I don't remember who did it exactly. I really don't. Question, all right. So like you said with regard to the rounds that are signed, both are responsible. You know you're supposed to both conduct it. One actually has to sign. Thomas, somebody has to call in. And somebody has to call it in. So you're both taking responsibility for calling them in.

8:09You both take responsibility for signing the round sheets. Thomas, yes. Question, okay. So if you're documenting these rounds, did you document these counts? You obviously had to document the counts at the time that they were called in, correct? Because you've got to provide the count slip. Thomas, yeah. Question. So if you're preparing the count slip, why aren't you just how long does it take to conduct a count? Thomas, 15 minutes, 10, 15 minutes. Question. So if you're preparing the count slip, why aren't you just conducting them? Thomas, like I said, just exhausted. Most of the time, as you can see by my monthly, I do a lot of overtime. Like I said, again, I'm usually the internal. I do prefer internal, but as you can see, I do shoe quite a bit as well. And it's just something that just happened. It really is no easy way of putting it. It's just something that just happened. Okay. Thomas, regrettably. Question. So how often would you document cell counts that you didn't conduct?

9:10Thomas, not often at all. Question not often. Thomas, no. Question. Would it be like one per shift, two per shift? Thomas, no, like, I mean, like I said, no one's perfect and everything like that. But I could say I've done, I usually get up and do around, just walk around and everything like that. And it shows that I walked around and everything like that. But it's not very often that I just said, fuck it, excuse my language, that I just disregard my job and my duties. It's definitely not often at all. Question okay. Thomas, but like I said, he gets cut off. Question. It happened in the past. You just don't know how it. Thomas, yeah, it did. It's, I'm sure it happened in the past, like I said. I'm not going to sit up and say I'm perfect. I get everything on the dot, bullet that. What I try to get as most of it like that, sometimes you have bad days, sometimes you have good days. But with everything else, I just had one and I know it was a bad day. Question, what about rounds? How often would they not be?

10:11Thomas, same thing, same thing. Question, same thing, Thomas, same thing. You don't get as many rounds as you can. I don't know what the number of it's seven, ten or twelve or whatever the case of the number it is, but you do get the rounds in and everything. Even if you get them done, if you don't get them done by every half hour, you know what I mean? I've done them every hour one time, you know, just being exhausted. Question right. Thomas, but I do get some done. And like I said, this particular time, I guess I didn't get anything done. Question now, does it have anything to do with like being the 12 a.m. to 8 a.m. shift? You know, why do they have three separate counts at that time? Thomas, that's an institution thing. Question, is it what the inmates like, typically try to harm themselves? Is that why they're done more often from that time? Thomas, it's actually changed. Before the count was done at 9.45, now it's done at 10.

11:12I don't know the particular reason why, that's just standard B.O.P. protocol since I've been there. To make most counts? Then, okay, do you know of any other staff members that are also entering their slip counts and rounds? Thomas, I don't know what other staff members do. I'm locked in whenever. If I'm on internal or if I'm on indiscernible, if I'm on one unit, I don't know what other housing units are doing. Question sure. So you mentioned that you were certainly were other times that you didn't do counts and rounds. So obviously, I'm assuming you weren't always working with Noel, correct? Thomas, yes. I wasn't always working with Noel. Questions I'm assuming those counts and rounds were in conducted with another staff member, correct? Thomas, no, I said they were conducted. Question not all of them. Thomas, yeah, I did say maybe not all of them, or maybe most of them, or maybe all of them was conducted. You know what I mean? It's not always just not done at all. Thomas, but I have conducted my counts before.

12:14Absolutely. But I want to make sure that we're certain that obviously you Thomas cut them off. That I said that I'm not perfect. Question, yeah, that you didn't conduct all your counts that you were documented. Thomas, you can be certain that I'm not perfect that I've conducted every single one of mine all the time, but I've conducted most of my counts for most of the time. Question, okay, gotcha. Thomas, absolutely. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here and in the next episode dealing with the topic we're going to pick up where we left off all the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.