MCC Corrections Officer Michael Thomas And His OIG Interview Related To Epstein's Death (Part 20) (3/6/26)

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1:00Craving the coffee flavor you love. But without the caffeine, Kachava's got you covered with their newest coffee flavor. This all-in-one nutrition shake delivers bold, authentic flavor, crafted from premium decaffeinated Brazilian beans. With 25 grams of protein, 6 grams of fiber, greens, and so much more. Treat yourself to the flavor and nutrition your body craves. Go to kachava.com and use code news. New customers get 15% off their first order. That's K-A-C-H-A-V-A dot com code news. What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right back to the Michael Thomas interview with the OIG inspectors. And we're getting down to the end here. Maybe another episode, two episodes or so, and we should be at the end. And then after this, we're going to dive into other depositions and more unsealed vials. All right, back to the document. Question, okay, so end again. If we go back to actually the video and check to see if you're doing the counts,

2:04is that again? And I'm only saying this because I was just to remind you that you're under oath. Thomas, I understand. Question. And this is where that we can bring this back up. Thomas cuts them off. I totally understand. If you go back to the video, you will see that you'll catch me doing my rounds or you'll catch me doing my counts. Like I said, then that's why I said, whereas I'm not perfect. Like I said, 95, maybe the old hold up, you know, he didn't do this one. An hour went by, but he did it at an hour and one minute. So then technically by the paperwork, that I didn't do it every half an hour, correct? If I do it every other hour technically by the paperwork, I didn't do half an hour round. I did an hour round. Question, but you would have had to still certify that you did it every half hour. Thomas, no, you don't have to certify that. You did it every half hour. I don't believe that has to be. If you write on the paper that I did it every hour, it's just when the round was conducted, when I conducted the round.

3:06Question. So in order for the rounds to be completed, you don't have to actually sign it every 30 minutes. Thomas, it could be. I'm not saying that it has to be. I'm supposed to be done every 30 minutes, but if I didn't do it every 30 minutes, and I did one an hour, that's when I wrote that time on there. Question, all right. So you wouldn't then go back to fill it in that 30 minutes. Thomas, no, I wouldn't go back to fill it in. Question. Like see how they have like. So you would leave one blank. If it wasn't conducted, Thomas, no, you wouldn't leave it blank because somebody would tell you to fill it in. Question, that's what I'm saying. Thomas, if it was from 1230 to 1 and I did the round once, so I just put 1230 to 1. Like you'll see some round sheets, it says from 12 to I didn't do it at, but between 1230 and I put 1245. The round is still conducted. Question, so what are you saying? Thomas, it probably wasn't done in the half an hour block.

4:07Question, so you put. Thomas, it probably wasn't just done in a half an hour block, but it was still conducted. Question, right. So a round was conducted. But if it was covering two, if it was conducting an hour block, how would you fill in the two? Would they be identical? Thomas, as you can, no. Because as you can see right here, it's not a specific time. Because this just says as long as it's between this time. So I did it at 1210. I started here at 1210 and then I did the round here. It lapped over to 1240 because I got to talking to an inmate or like that. It's still a round is still conducted, then right here. You know what I'm saying? I go at 1252 and I did it. I did a fast round. I did it from 1252 to 1259. The round is still conducted. But even though the last though, you're caught up in. I understand because it's black and white. It's not just done just like that. It can be done at any given time,

5:08as long as the round is conducted. It doesn't have to be by policy. It's supposed to be in the 30-minute block. That's when you're talking policy, but he gets cut off with 30 to 40. Yeah, question 30 to 40 minute block. But like I say, if I did it at 1210 and did it at 1240, then right here, I wanted to just because I wanted to get around done. I conducted at 1252 to 1259. It's still within the block. It's still conducted. Question? Well, that's conducting around, correct. But what I thought you said, it was like you might not do it for a whole hour. Thomas? Excuse me, I apologize. That's a 1210 to 1240 to 1242. I'm saying that's an hour. Because that's pretty much we got 20 minutes, 10 minutes before and 10 minutes after, then you have an hour. But that's the whole hour. So if I did it for 12 to 1, then I did it from 1 to 2. It's still conducted. It's just not conducted in your 30-minute span, as you say. I didn't do the in-between,

6:08but it's still conducted. You see what I'm saying? Question? No. Thomas, okay. Question because you're talking about 1 to 2, that's a whole hour. And then we're not talking about within 30 minutes. Thomas, but within the 30 minutes. That's not doing it every 30 minutes. It's like I was supposed to be done. But then if I did it 12 to 1, it's still conducted, but it's not conducted the correct way. Around is still conducted, but it's not conducted the correct way. No. Question? No, because Thomas, do you understand? Question? No, I understand what you're saying. Because if you're saying you're doing the round within an hour, and you have to document it one round every 30 minutes, so you can only then fill out one of these blocks, which one are you going to fill out? Or are you going to do the same thing in an identical place? 1209? Thomas, yeah, you just, he gets cut off. But at 1230, will there be identical blocks? Identical times? Thomas? Well, that's up to the person.

7:10Question? But what you're saying is that if you did it at 1225 and ended at 1235, that covered those 30 minutes. Thomas, no, you still put that in the block. Question? You're saying the start time and the end time? He's cut off by Thomas. No, you still put that in the one block. If I did it from 1225 and at 1230, I would still put that in one block. And then this next one, whatever the time is, like I said, 1241, and then 12 to 1242. Because remember, this is just a tier. This is not the whole round. This is just a tier. So what you're saying is this is 12 to 1, 2, 1210. This is just one tier, G tier. Question? Yup. Thomas. So then you've got 1211 to 1210. Remember, this is just one tier. Question? Sure. Each one of these different tier. Thomas, each one's a different tier. So it's taking a minute. A tier. Question? Thomas. So that's one tier.

8:10And then you've got another 12.5 to 12. Indicernable. That's just one tier. I'm doing 1245. So then the whole thing. Question? Yeah. Thomas. So now you have to get from 12.5 to 1220, something is when that whole round was done in a 20-minute span. Do you got me or are you totally lost? Question? I understand what you're saying. You did it within the hour. Rodriguez, right. And you're a mark. But here's the thing. You're signing off or initialing, according to the fact that you've done the count within the time period. Is that right or wrong? Thomas, yeah. She initialed that she did it between 12.09 and 12.10. Question? No, no. Let's forget about it. Just talk about you. Thomas, okay. Question? When you do your rounds, Mr. Thomas. When I do my rounds, while I have been done around and over two or something years, I do my rounds at 12 to 12.10. I mean 12 o'clock, to 12.30 in that block. If I did it the incorrect way,

9:11I did it from 12. It's still I got it in between that time, but I still wrote 12 to 12.30. So 12 to 1. Question? Okay. I can't. He gets cut off by Thomas. I don't even understand what your question is. Question? No, no. I'll come back to this another part. When do you think these initials were put on? Thomas, I don't know when she wrote it. I don't know when she did it. Question? When did these round sheets get submitted? Thomas at the end of the day. Question at the end of the day. Thomas, end of the whole work day, not the end of every work period, every eight hours. Question? You wouldn't happen to know if she went back and signed these after. Thomas, I wouldn't know. Question? Initial log? Thomas, like I said, I lost track in the well. Question? It sounds like it may. It looks like if this is what you're saying, that she did these rounds at 6, 10, 6, 11, what time? Thomas, they're not in order. Question? What time does breakfast get there?

10:12Thomas, breakfast is no standard time, especially not on the weekends. You're talking about on the Saturday. Question? The last one she wrote was 6, 13. You assume that she did it right before you know. You discovered Epstein? Thomas could have been. Question? That would be the assumption? Thomas? That would be the assumption by the binder. I don't remember the time the food cart came up. Question? But you didn't witness her actually signing? Thomas, no. I don't know when she put her signature on that. Question? You don't remember like talking? Like, hey, I'm going to grab the food cart. You take care of the round sheets. Thomas, no. Question? All right. Just so that the whole thing that we just talked about is in convoluted. What we talked about before was that you've done the majority of the counts and rounds, but not all of them. Thomas, I usually just plan on doing my rounds, yeah. Question? What's that? Thomas, I'm usually spot on with doing my rounds. Question? Well, when we talked about it before,

11:13you said you weren't always. Thomas, I'm not perfect. Question? So we're appointing two specific ones. Thomas, I can tell you. He gets cut off where the rounds. Thomas again cuts them off that I wasn't perfect. Question, right. The rounds and counts that you've conducted you believe that you've conducted the majority of them. Thomas, I've done all my rounds, yes. Question? If you falsified some, but not a lot, when I say falsified, you wrote in that you conducted them, but they weren't actually conducted. Thomas, no, that's not what I'm saying. I wrote what I wrote my rounds. Question? For the count slips. We're saying, Thomas cuts them off. Yeah, I think he gets cut off. That wasn't the first. Thomas again cuts him off. You're talking about the counts. This is the rounds or the count slips. Question, we're talking the indesernable. Thomas, I said I'm not. I said that I'm not perfect. Question, right.

12:14Thomas, you know what I mean? I don't want to sit up here. That I'm 100% perfect. What I'm saying is that I did my rounds. I was usually spot on with my rounds. And I'm doing what I'm supposed to do as far as the course of my job. Question, okay. So you're saying that these anytime that you worked in the shoe and you marked off people have marked off that you did them every 30 minutes. Thomas, I don't know what people marked off. I only know what I do. When I usually, I get my stuff done. Question, so when you're in the shoe on all those overtime shifts that we just showed you, you're doing rounds every 30 minutes. Thomas, I can't say that I don't do rounds every 30 minutes. Question, that's the question. Thomas, okay. I can't say that I did rounds every 30 minutes. No, I can't say that. I did the rounds every 30 minutes. Question, so you're doing them most of the time. But some of them are marked off when they weren't actually conducted. Thomas, maybe, maybe. Question, okay.

13:14And the same thing with the count slips. You've done most of the count slips. Thomas cuts them off. No, I usually get my counts done. Usually I get my counts done. Question, but not all of them. So if we go back and we find some times, you didn't do it. Thomas, you can go back. He gets cut off. We're probably going to find if we're reviewing video. Thomas of the 14 years. You may have me one time where I didn't get one done. Craving the coffee flavor you love. But without the caffeine, Kachava's got you covered with their newest coffee flavor. This all-in-one nutrition shake delivers bold, authentic flavor, crafted from premium, decaffeinated Brazilian beans. Quality nutrition shouldn't be complicated. Just two scoops of Kachava's all-in-one nutrition shake and you've got 25 grams of protein, six grams of fiber, greens, and so much more. Whether you're craving that coffee taste to kickstart your morning ritual or as a nutrient-packed reward to round out your afternoon, Kachava keeps you fueled and satisfied wherever your day takes you.

14:15Plus, it actually tastes delicious. No fillers, no nonsense. Just the good stuff your body craves. And for the times you feel like switching it up, you've got seven flavors to choose from. All with the highest quality ingredients. Treat yourself to the flavor and nutrition your body craves. Go to kachava.com and use code news. New customers get 15% off their first order. That's K-A-C-H-A-V-A.com code news. Craving the coffee flavor you love. But without the caffeine, Kachava's got you covered with their newest coffee flavor. This all-in-one nutrition shake delivers bold, authentic flavor, crafted from premium, decaffeinated Brazilian beans with 25 grams of protein, craving the coffee flavor you love. But without the caffeine, Kachava's got you covered with their newest coffee flavor. This all-in-one nutrition shake delivers bold, authentic flavor, crafted from premium, decaffeinated Brazilian beans. With 25 grams of protein, your body craves will be delivered to Kachava.com and use code news. New customers get 15% off their first order.

15:16That's K-A-C-H-A-V-A.com code news. Craving the coffee flavor you love. But without the caffeine, Kachava's got you covered with their newest coffee flavor. This all-in-one nutrition shake delivers bold, authentic flavor, crafted from premium, decaffeinated Brazilian beans. With 25 grams of protein, six grams of fiber, greens, and so much more. Treat yourself to the flavor and nutrition your body craves. Go to Kachava.com and use code news. New customers get 15% off their first order. That's K-A-C-H-A-V-A.com code news. Question, but even if we're just talking about like August or July, Thomas, I actually don't know. I honestly don't know. Question, because I thought we already covered this. And you already said, Thomas, we did already cover that. But I honestly don't know. I honestly don't know. Question, I thought my understanding from the conversation was at yep, there's count slips that I've created in the past. Most of them conducted. Some of them aren't going, you know. Some of them, yes, I just signed them

16:18and put them the count number. But I, you know, especially between the hours of 12 a.m. and 5 a.m. Thomas, that's all my overtime right there. It's 12 a.m. He gets cut off, right? That's what I'm saying. Thomas, except for one day watch. Question, because there's that. So like, not every 12 a.m. 3 a.m. and 5 a.m. count was conducted during a shift. Thomas, I don't know. Question, most of them, but not all of them. Thomas, I don't want to say, I want to say all, but honestly, I don't know. I want to say all, I want to say all. But then I'm not trying to get caught up in a lie and say, oh, no, this one time, that I didn't just do that. Question, I'm just trying to reconcile what we talked about like two hours ago. Thomas, exactly. Question, because two hours ago, Thomas cuts them off. I said I wasn't perfect. And so maybe I didn't get one done or not. I don't know, like I said, I'm not perfect. I didn't get maybe, I didn't get one of those. But I don't know, that's exactly what I said two hours ago.

17:20Question, you know, my understanding was that you, okay, so you're saying that you believe actually your count slips are. He gets caught off by Thomas. I believe my count slips are good. I believe they're good. Question, okay, so when we go back and review the video, we're going to see that you were actually doing them. Thomas, you're going to see that I get my count's done. Yes, question and same thing for your rounds. Thomas, you should see me get most of my rounds done. Question, all right. Because now that you're saying this, we have to go back and review those things. Question, I'll tell you that I'm saying that I should have gotten most of my rounds. And if I didn't get them all done, I'm not trying to lie and say I didn't. Question, can we go outside for a minute? Mr. Mitchell asks. Redacted answers. Absolutely, we can take time out. So they get back. All right, the recorder is back on. It's currently 2 18 PM on June 17th, 2021. Again, everyone is present.

18:20Aside from I don't believe the other attorney is on the phone right now. And Mr. Thomas, I remind you again, this is voluntary and you are under oath. Is there anything that you would like to add with regard to the rounds and the counts that you have conducted and certified in the past prior to August 10th, 2019? Thomas, that I have not completed all my rounds. That's it. Question, what about your counts in the count slips? Question or answer, I have not completed all my counts. Question, all right. So in the past prior to August 10th, 2019, there are times that you were in the shoe that you didn't conduct all of your counts, but you did certify that they were conducted. Is that correct? Thomas, yes, question. All right, the same thing for the rounds. And there are times that you certified on the round sheets that they were conducted, but they were or you or the person that you were working with certified. They were conducted when they were in fact not conducted. Thomas, yes, question. And I know you were saying like before, like estimates, but like how often would that happen?

19:22Thomas, I really couldn't tell you. Question, was it a regular occurrence? Thomas, I really don't know. Question no, but did it happen in the past? Thomas, yes. Question, but you're sure you're not sure how often? Thomas, yes. Question, okay. Would you like to follow up with additional questioning on that? Question from another redacted investigator. During those times, when you didn't commit, conduct the rounds or the counts, was it only with Toa Nova? To El Nova? I mean Tova Noelle. Thomas, I don't remember if I worked with her before or not. Question, okay. Which other COs were you working with when this incident happened? Thomas, I've been there for 14 years. I can't remember exactly who. I really don't know who I worked with at the time. Question, so this has a span over 14 years? Thomas, no, I don't know. I don't know when this happened or not. Question, okay, that's all. Question, okay. Anything else you want to add? Thomas, no. Not at all.

20:22Question any further clarification? Thomas, no, thank you. Question, okay. It's fairly again, you can and you may. Thomas, it's no problem. I'm okay. Question, is there anything you want to add to this specific instance? Thomas, no, I don't. Question, is there a certain belief that you have? As to why Jeffrey Epstein got into the place that he was? Is there any reason why you think that occurred? Thomas, I can't speak for any of that. No. Question, no, okay. And you're sure that we want to conclude this? Question, yes. Question, so we don't have to revisit anything later on in the date. Anything you can think of? Answer, nothing yet. Another redacted person, you're the case agent. So I want to make sure. Question, that's it, nothing. Because we covered pretty much everything. Thomas, no problem. I'm here, whenever you all need me again. Question, all right. Let me just do a quick review and make sure that we're good. And hopefully this can be it. All right, are you confident with all of your answers?

21:23Again, knowing that you're under oath? There is nothing that you want to clarify before we end this. This would be the time to do that. Thomas, no, sir. Question, no additional information. Thomas, nope. Question, no questions that we're missing that we should ask. Thomas, nope. Question, all right. This is senior agent redacted. It's currently to 21 on June 17th, 2021. And I'm turning off the recorder. All right, folks, there you have it. The full deposition of Michael Thomas, after he was questioned by the OIG inspectors in the wake of Jeffrey Epstein's death. All the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. Warning, the following Zippercruder radio spot you are about to hear is going to be filled with F words. When you're hiring, we at Zippercruder know you can feel frustrated for Lauren, even. Like your efforts are futile. And you can spend a fortune trying to find fabulous people, only to get flooded with candidates who are just

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