Matthew Brown: UAP / UFO Whistleblower Testimony | Why Coming Forward Is A Trap

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1:01An open door, a protection program that was never offered, and the UFO whistleblower who revealed a maculant constellation. I was there primarily to hear about an ODNI-sponsored whistleblower protection program that was never offered. Instead, they said, hey, do you want to go to the ICIG, which was already well established to be sort of a fruitless endeavor, if not a trap itself. The officer who ran that interview had problems of his own. I learned both during and after that this individual's conduct was compromising, he himself mapped to three of the five indicators of insider threats and appeared to be unstable on multiple occasions. So where did they put him? This individual is currently now at the ICIG overseeing the whistleblower intake process. No whistleblower should ever approach that organization, being the victim of an intelligence operation against US citizens through ODNI, having as its end goal in presenting myself for treason and espionage.

2:05So why is that door open again? Let's find out! Hey everybody, welcome to the Good Trouble Show, I'm Matt Ford. The principal deputy director of national intelligence just told UAP whistleblowers they can come forward now through cleared channels. They want you to go to the Pentagon's UFO program arrow or ODNI, the office of the director of national intelligence. My guest today did just that. He is the man who revealed the Pentagon UFO Black program, Immaculate Constellation. He went into here about a protection program, instead they spent that meeting finding out what he knew and what he was prepared to say. The government says the door is open again, he has a warning for anyone thinking about walking through it. Please welcome Matthew Brown. Matthew, thanks for joining us. How are you? Thanks for having me, Matt. Pleasure to be here. Oh great, yeah, glad we finally finally connected. Thank you for everything that you've done on

3:10this topic. For people that have no idea who you are, give give our folks at home just kind of a brief background on what you have done in service to this country. Yeah, prior to becoming a UAP whistleblower to Congress in 2023, I was a national security contractor first at the Department of Defense, now Department of War, where I worked in the Pentagon and then later at the Department of State in all those roles I was working on the WebAsA Mass destruction mission and countering those threats. What kind of security clearance did you have when you were working these things? So I had top secret SCI. You know, we're not really supposed to say too much more, but yeah. You had the top secret clearance with SCI eligibility. Correct, and definitely made use of that. Okay, cool. Okay, great. I just kind of

4:15established a people that are not not familiar with you that, you know, that when you speak about these things, you had access to things that the public definitely does not have access to. So on your sub-stack, you just you put out this really incredible article and I want you to want to talk about that for a second. So you this thing was about catch and kill and the NDA waiver routes whistleblowers into Aero, ODNI Aero being the Pentagon's UAP office, ODNI office of the director of national intelligence and pursue and you say none of them can be trusted and I would happen to agree with you on all of that. Now Monday, the principal deputy director of national intelligence posted that people can now come forward through cleared channels and you called all this three days early. What is wrong with, quote unquote, cleared channels? Well, I mean, first,

5:15I would just say that aside from adding the pursue team as an organization that can receive whistleblower disclosures, there's really nothing new, at least in what's been announced so far. Aero already had the authority to accept protected disclosures. So did ODNI through its SCIG process and unfortunately through its dig director's initiative group as well. So the problem though, just in general, is that none of this is going to reach the public. This is not a waiver of non disclosure agreements to talk to the public about what whistleblowers know. It's for whistleblowers to go talk to the government itself at these bodies, two of which have a very poor track record when it comes to dealing with UAP whistleblowers. And essentially, it's just more of the same. I want you to expand a bit. I take it that one of the organizations that you're talking about is Aero. Am I right about that? Oh, yeah, most certainly. And what would be some

6:18of the things that you would say gives Aero a bad track record? Well, I think most recently, we can look at their treatment of congressional witnesses on the UAP subject. Recently, discussed at Contact in the Desert with Jeremy Corbyl and George NAP was the sort of harassment of a war against, you know, open retaliation that senior chief Alexander O'Vigan's of the Navy experienced after testifying to Congress, you know, being sat down by Aero investigators and interrogated essentially on what he saw, how he saw it, was he leaking videos, very uncomfortable situation, and then being threatened that if he didn't come meet with them, that they would go to the secretary of defense and make him talk with them. Partly a very collegial or

7:19comfortable process to say the least. You call Aero a catching kill operation. And this is something that I've said on this show before. I submitted a letter to Congress that is now part of the congressional record that had the former directorate of science and technology, Glenn Gaffney. I named him as one of the people on Sean Kirkpatrick's secret advisory board back when he was the director of Aero. And the point I made in this article is here you have this office within the Pentagon that is supposed to be a place for people to make protected, protected disclosures to. And yet you've got the guy that's one of the primary gatekeepers, gatekeepers for the UAP legacy program on this panel. I mean, that's certainly a conflict of interest. And the point I'm making is that this was likely a back door to get whistleblowers who walk into Aero to get their information in a pipeline straight to the legacy program in the CIA. Would you say that that's

8:23a fair statement? Oh, absolutely. And the conduct of at least the previous two directors of Aero itself has been, you know, nothing sort of sort of disreputable and very disparaging towards the UAP whistleblowers. Shop vans and Albertsons for fresh savings every time you shop. This week at vans and Albertsons get fresh, boneless, skinless chicken breast for 199 per pound limit 10 pounds. And locally grown, grape-ary cotton candy grapes are 299 per pound with digital coupon. Plus 24 packs of Canada dry or 7-up 12-ounce cans are 499 limit one with digital coupon. Enjoy fresh and delicious savings for every meal. Hurry in, these deals won't last. Visit vansoralbertsons.com for more deals and ways to save.

9:28Shop vans and Albertsons for fresh savings every time you shop. This week at vans and Albertsons, get fresh, boneless, skinless chicken breast for 199 per pound limit 10 pounds. And locally grown grape-ary cotton candy grapes are 299 per pound with digital coupon. Plus 24 packs of Canada dry or 7-up 12-ounce cans are 499 limit one with digital coupon. Enjoy fresh and delicious savings for every meal. Hurry in, these deals won't last. Visit vansoralbertsons.com for more deals and ways to save. Better out there, the people who are taking the risks to bring this information forward. An arrow itself, frankly, has too many missions. It's focusing on data integration, collecting, reports from Airmen, Seaman, and also ingesting whistleblower testimony from inside and outside the government and supposedly conducting a historical review all in one shop that, oh, also,

10:32issues contracts for sensors to detect UAP, sensors that we already have. So what exactly arrow is is kind of difficult to say at this point, but when it comes to whistleblowers, it certainly is no friend, it is no ally, and it is not to be trusted. It is, I would definitely agree with that. It is certainly not to be trusted. Now, you had this just absolutely amazing interview on weaponized with Jeremy Corbell and George NAP. And if folks, if you haven't seen it, I highly suggest watching it. It's an extensive three-part series. One of the things that you spoke about in that interview was a, if I don't remember correctly, it was maybe a transcript or report that you saw that was a conversation between the former director of arrow, Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick and Senator Marco Rubio, who at the time, I believe, was the chair of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. Can you tell us what were the contents of that conversation? If you can't directly give specifics

11:39sort of like an overview. I can't give too many specifics there other than what was sort of related in that interview and in the, I believe in the MACTheConstellation report as well, but the gist of it comes down to that Patrick was in these meetings as the director of arrow meeting with not just Rubio, but Gillibrand, Warner, and their staff. And basically saying to them that he had, that the US government had no knowledge about any sort of legacy UAP program, no knowledge about any sort of reverse engineering or crash retrieval program, and no knowledge, or no definitive knowledge about what they were seeing in the skies. Ball and Face Lie, certainly at that point, Mr. Kirkpatrick was well aware of all those subjects and the facts behind them. And I think we can look to his job history later on to see what might have happened there,

12:42you know, receiving a contract to work at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, a place where reverse engineering efforts are widely reported to be occurring, kind of points towards, you know, the deal that was probably struck there. Yeah, I completely agree. And actually before Kirkpatrick left, he was, you know, he was not, I wouldn't say funneling money, but arrow was giving contracts to Oak Ridge National Laboratory. So him immediately going over to Oak Ridge is actually violation as I understand it, of the amount of monuments clause. So I don't know if he, he, I don't know how that, how that happened, but it is, it is certainly, certainly suspect. Now, I'm curious, Matthew, do you think that any of, kind of the bad things that were going on under arrow under Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, Sean Kirkpatrick, can talk this morning,

13:45do you think that it's any different at arrow under the leadership of Dr. John Kuslowski? Unfortunately, no. The incident with senior chief Wiggins was well passed Kirkpatrick's departure and well into Kuslowski's administration of arrow. So either he is approving those actions or turning a blind eye towards them, you know, aside from that incident, you know, I've heard from other people that to this day, the stigma for reporting a UAP siding as a service number has not gone away. The interviews on this subject, you know, are grueling. There's threats of psych evaluations and hints that, you know, if you want to go forward with this information, you know, this picture career in the long run, it's right back to the days of blue book, little change. So you're saying arrow, arrow is telling people that are coming in the door that oh, by the way, if you give us this protected disclosure, this could harm your career or flag your security clearance, etc.

14:49Correct. I would just offer the nuance that, you know, there's been an effort to get service members who report who have sightings of these things in the field to report them as part of their official duties. So not as a whistleblower, but just as part of their service in the military. And that's kind of what I'm getting at, just that level of saying, hey, I saw something, here's what I saw, not blowing whistle, many wrongdoing, just reporting what I see and encountered in the field. That alone is enough to kind of bring the hammer down and bring a chilling effect, which if you look in the mission statement of arrow is exactly what they claim to want to put a stop to in reverse. It is, it's really pretty crazy. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but the arrow's contractor, Arlo Solutions, their prime contractor, before it was sandcorp, they actually reached out to me in a direct message on LinkedIn asking me to apply for a job at arrow. And at first, I truly thought that this was some kind of joke because I've been so critical of arrow, but when I

15:54looked in the job description, of course, first thing it said was T.S. clearance with S.C.I. eligibility. I don't hold any sort of clearance. But as I'm scrolling down under desired job qualifications, and again, this is under the leadership of Dr. John Kislowski under desired qualifications for what they wanted me to apply for under at arrow was information operations, information activity activities, and deception activities. In other words, they wanted me to have a background in psychological operations, and it was just absolutely, absolutely insane. And you know, and the other thing that I would point out about arrow is, is their prime contractors that they have had, Arlo and Arlo Solutions, which is the current one, and sandcorp, they are primarily known as contractors that do information and perception management, I'm sorry,

17:01IPMO, information and perception management. And then the other thing that they are also known for is insider threat. So, you know, so you have these two contractors that are really doing the a lion's share of the work, who are really set up just in this, I mean, even in this analysis here that I'm holding, everything in the contracts and the two primary contracts, both of which are around $4 million per fiscal year that they are paying, both of these contractors are set up for catch and kill. So, you know, so right away that tells you exactly what's going on. Shop vans and Albertsons for fresh savings every time you shop. This week at vans and Albertsons, get fresh, boneless, skinless chicken breast for $199 per pound limit 10 pounds. And locally grown Cotten candy grapes are $299 per pound with digital coupon. Plus 24 packs of Canada dry or 7-up 12-ounce

18:02cans are $499 limit one with digital coupon. Enjoy fresh and delicious savings for every meal. Hurry in, these deals won't last. Visit vans or Albertsons.com for more deals and ways to save. At QVC, shopping is more than just checking out. It's discovering something new every day. Start with today's special value. Then, explore exciting finds across the brands and categories you love. From beauty and fashion to home, culinary and outdoor living. Shop now at QVC.com. I want to move on to what happened when you went to Ode and I. For folks that let's

19:23say just haven't watched the weaponized podcast, walk us through what occurred, why you were called, tell us a bit about when you went there and if you don't mind maybe who interviewed you, those sorts of things, whatever details you can share. Because I think all of that is important, especially with what is currently happening with Ode and I. Sure. That whole saga is probably an hour's long conversation, so I'll try to be brief. The genesis of this was having an Ode and I agent reach out to various people in the disclosure movement, especially with the national security background and their allies. Insert himself as a friendly person who just wanted to get to the bottom of this and help expose bad guys when people's trust and from there get contact to people like myself and invite us in so that we can help them figure this out from the inside and bring it back under proper oversight and control.

20:26That whole process I personally had an immense amount of skepticism around it and regretfully did indeed make the choice to go in. It was kind of a catch-22 situation where the government saying that they're coming to whistleblowers in good faith. Well, as a whistleblower, you're supposed to consider doing so to help people. That experience once we got into the room, nothing lined up with what was discussed priorly. I was there primarily to hear about an Ode and I sponsored whistleblower protection program, specifically for the UAP issue. That was never offered. Instead, they said, hey, do you want to go to the ICIG, which was already well established to be sort of a fruitless endeavor, if not a trap itself. The questioning that they had veered off into areas separate from UAP, including things like, well, probably can't say here,

21:32but at least say tied to WMD concerns and some of the conduct in the Middle East. It definitely became clear that they were pumping me to see what I knew, how I knew it, and what I was prepared to say. Left that interview, saying, hey, sure, I'll give you my documentation and evidence, provided some of that, and was just ghosted. Next thing I heard was some months later, or maybe just actually a month later. That was the news from the weaponized team that the Ode and I officer who was working under James Erdman III, and in fact was the only officer working the UAP issue for James Erdman III, was saying that I had fabricated all my evidence, that I had made up the MACD Constellation Program, and the documentation, the report which was

22:33separate from the MACD Constellation Program, and that I was an anti-Semite. Of course, as you come famous now, I received that news ironically enough at my friend's Jewish wedding. They did not do their background. Yeah, clearly. I have the chance to debrief a couple people that went and testified to Arrow, and then I provided a sort of executive summary of their experience with Arrow to one particular United States Senator. I can tell you that what I was told, it was, it's literally keystone cops there. It's really bad. So was James Erdman III, one of the people who interviewed you in the skiff? No, I had no contact with him. In fact, did not know that he was the individual, leading the UAP investigation until his testimony to the Senate. I forget which committee, but it was his public testimony, where he revealed that

23:34information and proceeded to discuss his findings on COVID origins and in almost health incidents. At the time, the oversight of his findings related to UAP was definitely noted, but since the hearing wasn't on that subject, I did the time to call out that sort of suspicions of mission. His recent interview with Catherine Harrage, regrettably revealed his true intentions there, which I believe are to mislead the American public and continue the original effort of discrediting UAP whistleblowers and trying to put this entire topic back in the tube, as they say. I would agree with that. Can you tell us, because I believe that at this juncture, it is important to begin naming names. We're going to start doing that with congressional staffers that have been blocking all of this. Can you tell us exactly who at ODNI interviewed you in the skiff?

24:34Not at this time, not publicly. I will say that it is time to start naming names, and that will be done through sort of official channels first. There are some complications here, because that individual is an active intelligence officer, and as I understand it, there are laws preventing US citizens from I'm asking active intelligence officers. I think it applies to people like yourself that have held clearances. I don't know that it applies to regular Americans, but I certainly don't want to step into that if that is the case. You've got this guy who ran the or runs the ODNI's investigation into UAP. It seems to me, and this is something that I pointed out almost a year ago, that in really the first signs of this were with the Wall Street Journal article, and also some podcast appearances

25:38with Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, the former director of Arrow, in addition to Tim Phillips of Arrow. He's no longer at Arrow. But what I recognized is that there seemed to be a communication of comms plan with these goals in mind. Number one, derail the UAP Disclosure Act. Number two, really the prime thing was to message to members of Congress that all of this is a bunch of BS, that they're wasting taxpayer money and that their constituents are going to vote them out, because they think they're wasting taxpayer money. But the primary goal that I recognized in this communications plan was to label whistleblowers as grifters. Because if you can blanket a sign, sort of blanket label, all of these whistleblowers coming in as grifters, then it basically kind of

26:42defangs people that have gone and testified in front of Congress. So then if you're like, oh well the people that have showed up in front of Congress are just doing it to make a bunch of money, what are your thoughts on that? Do you think that that is what I'm alleging? Do you think that that makes sense to you? I mean, unfortunately it does. It continues a long trend of elements of the US government and intelligence community, smearing people who have legitimate information about this topic and are willing to go to the public with it. In my opinion, you know, Aero's true mission includes both internal information control and external perception management. So making sure that the raken file of the US military believes the right things and doesn't talk about the wrong things and then making sure that the public on the outside doesn't come to recognize the wrong

27:44doing that has occurred and the length of the cover-up that has existed over this whole topic. Real quick folks, I want to stop right here for one second. If you're not subscribed, hit that button, ring the bell, leave a comment, give us a thumbs up. I know it sounds like a lot, but here's why it matters. YouTube sees all of that and basically says to itself, hey, maybe we should recommend the good trouble show to people who don't know it exists yet. That's how that works. And as a matter of fact, YouTube is no longer organically recommending our show to new people. So please, doing all of that will hopefully change YouTube's mind. Also, we are on all the major podcast platforms if you like to listen on the go. And last thing, and I promise, we have no sponsors on this show zero. We are kept alive entirely by people like you. If you want to help pay the studio rent here in Hollywood, we are on Patreon at www.patron.com forward slash the good trouble show. And you can also support us right here on YouTube through memberships or super things. All of that stuff

28:50means the world to us and allows us to keep bringing you this show. All right, back to the interview. One of the things I pointed out on the show is the Smithmont Modernization Act. And that that is being used as a loophole for the Pentagon and the intelligence community to bypass executive order. I think it's one, two, three, three, three that presidential executive order that prohibits the use of disinformation upon American citizens. In the weaponized interview, you mentioned something that you had identified a group of people and I that were engaging in this. And I took that to mean perhaps debunkers or people like Stephen Green Street or McWest or others that I have suspected or part of that network is that who you were referring to. Shop vans and Albertsons for fresh savings every time you shop. This week at vans and Albertsons get fresh, boneless, skinless chicken

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30:51savings for every meal. Hurry in. These deals won't last. Visit vans or Albertsons.com for more deals and ways to save. I can't comment on specific names. I'm trying to avoid lawsuits here. But that was one category of information I did bring forward to ODINI. The behavior itself is pretty clearly organized and directed. And that act that you referenced is a very important one for the American public to understand because what that does is let our intelligence community use third party countries and clandestine information warfare assets in those countries to recirculate propaganda back to the United States and the United States citizens to affect political change. It's completely unethical. The fact that that act passed under Obama I believe is correct is something that urgently needs to be repealed. Everyone you said everyone I believe it was in the weaponized interview everyone in this debate says amnesty. You're the only person asking what exactly the American people are being asked to forgive and then you know then you

31:57answered kidnappings forced disappearances murders human experimentation directed energy weapons used on American citizens intelligence trade craft used to use to destroy marriages families businesses home invasions what you know walk me walk me through a few of those things that are in that list what of those have you experienced and yeah it's really just it's really just sad. Yeah so I mean it is 13 crimes as it were for categories of crimes and have been committed by the cover up and are the authorities that govern the legacy programs. You know I personally experienced and provably have experienced you know the the intimidation that comes from home invasions the intimidation that comes from being the victim of an intelligence

32:57operation against us citizens through Odin. I that that was having as its end goal in imprisoning myself for for treason and espionage charges that also carry the threat of execution. So if that's not a chilling effect I don't know what is there's other categories of crime there that I myself have not experienced but am aware of being committed either through other individuals or through non public information it is quite frankly a list of crimes that need to be brought forward to the public and it needs to be taken into our judiciary system whether through some sort of class action lawsuit or or many lawsuits pursuing each of those crop justice for each of those crimes. I would I would completely completely agree with that you know you were talking

34:00about in one of in one of these things here and one of the lists directed energy weapons I have two two friends that were both both hit with with that with anomalous health injuries and and then the other thing is the targeting of of not only the the whistleblower but their spouses. I know of at least two people where the Air Force Office of Special Investigation has targeted the spouse of a particular person just giving you one case of a particular person who who isn't even a whistleblower but was related tangentially to a whistleblower and this Air Force this AFOSI agent and if you're watching I know exactly who you are this this lady befriended the wife of this person who has served this country with a distinction in the intelligence community and literally broke up their

35:05marriage this person actually just it makes my blood boil talked talked one of the daughters of this individual into into leaving leaving her dad and but these are the kinds of things that AFOSI and and the legacy program they do so so you have heard of the exact same sort of things that is correct it's very sick stuff and conduct unbecoming of an intelligence officer especially when carried out against a citizen of the United States and one of the things that you spoke about as well is that this is being directed out of Northrop Grumman are you talking about well I don't think there's only one source of this sort of behavior as you yourself pointed out AFOSI participated in that case at this point you know again not willing to name names

36:08while we seek official channels to pursue justice but you you you are you are not I'm going to bleep the name out by the way but I take it you're talking about no comment okay and and what does that say to you that you have two people within Northrop Grumman who are directing the these security contractors in particular and I forget they've changed names but it's it's essentially Wacken Hut and Pinkerton who are running a a group of former tier one operators to go in and break into homes try to kill people I would allege that they probably have why isn't Congress hauling the C-suite of Northrop Grumman and in front of him in a hearing because I mean it's

37:08just the fact that you've got these these two individuals at least in Northrop Grumman that are are running this kind of dual hat operation and support of the legacy program and the CIA you know what would you say to a member of Congress about you know what needs to be done about that so tough question um I think on the one hand we definitely have motivated members of Congress especially in the house to go after this but I don't think that there is currently the authority or political will to to bring people like that in front of Congress and to force them to answer questions the defense industry is one of the major donors to pretty much every political party and every member of Congress people like you've described are very scary and they are willing to to apply violence or or means just short of violence to intimidate and force people to back off and indeed that

38:11has happened to members of Congress and their staff so I think fear is also involved as well as the self interest of not wanting to rock the boat with their donors it's uh I was I was actually going to out this particular person at Northrop Grumman and I was warned by someone in the intelligence community that for me to do that would would risk my life and that is why why that name is is going to be gonna be bleeped now you name the first one go ahead I think that's a very important point you American citizen uh reporter journalist are being told by our intelligence community that you cannot report on wrongdoing in our country otherwise you will forfeit your life what kind of country are we living in where you are saying that statement with no incredulity um and we are not reacting with with outrage uh and demanding a change in our system that is stossy level oppression

39:14that is kgb Soviet level oppression that that is the worst of the worst that in our history we are told you know America is not like that thank god we have our first amendment rights it's it's really disgusting and the other thing too is that the person that is a supervisor is AFOSI a person from Air Force office of special investigation so here you have the United States Air Force supervising at Northrop Grumman who is running operations directing the two security contractors and others to go and uh and and really do uh do things to American citizens that would land anyone else in federal prison for life and and the fact that they are targeting American journalists they are targeting whistleblowers and um and and and really threatening uh their lives uh is is it's it's really obscene uh is is probably the best best way to put it and again the C suite of of North

40:19rop Grumman I'm quite sure that there are some people because I know some of the people in the C suite are actually on the uh council of 27 that manage the legacy program uh these people need uh to be uh to be held to account by the justice department and it seems like the justice department that is the one thing that you are not hearing much about but it seems like you you've got the executive branch that uh clearly in the national security council is ripe with corruption you have the United States Congress who uh you know some members of congress are trying to do the right thing but you have a lot of staffers that are compromised really in my view it seems like the justice department is really the last hope of turning this sort of mafia state into the democracy that the Constitution demands that's the hope um you know I think we will find out when we force the justice department to

41:20respond uh through lawsuits through bringing uh criminal prosecutions or advocating for those criminal prosecutions to take place um I've heard before from the FBI that they don't want to compromise national security or American capabilities um because of the threats that are out there in the world uh into that I say our most pressing threats are domestic they are internal the subversion of American democracy the erosion of constitutional rule isn't coming from China or Russia is coming from our own intelligence community from our defense industry and their enablers right now at Subway try the 499 sub of the day get a different six inch sub every day for just 499 each like neatball marinara on Mondays tuna on Tuesdays and the BMT on Saturdays it's a different six inch sub every day packed with protein and your choice of chopped veggies for just 499 each or make it a meal with chips in a drink for just two dollars more but hurry it's only for a limited time and only it's Subway after participating restaurants prices higher in Washington, Alaska and Hawaii and on third party

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43:31blower status as far as going under their their protection explain in particular what would be that trap what would be the risk of you doing you signing on that dotted line with what they were presenting and and also two did they explain exactly what kind of protection this would give you and during your interview did did they ever ask you hey Matthew are you is your life being threatened or do you have any concerns for your physical safety no even the offer of the iC iG was clearly just a an offer that they did not expect me to take and almost felt like they could just say that they had offered protection in the interview that the trap with iC iG is twofold as I understand it one what you go in and say basically becomes part of an investigation and therefore you're not able to talk about it much like talking about information and a skiff can then be retroactively

44:33classified regardless of whether it's actually originating from a classified source and then the other part is that the iC iG has taken no action I know multiple people who have gone there with their whistle blower testimony or complaints they've been found credible not urgent and have been waiting for years for any sort of a restitution were you ever shown any kind of like documentation in terms of you know what whistle blower protection would entail no and I was explicitly told before going to this odin i meeting that I would be handed sort of a briefing on what this odin i sponsored uap whistle blower protection program would be that never occurred and in fact the conversation which was supposed to start there uh we never got to that topic till maybe 20 minutes into it during your odin i interview did the name erin lucus ever come up no uh apparently he watches

45:35this show and watches what chris sharp uh writes and was uh one of my uh people in my network uh said that uh that lucus was uh quote but hurt about the things i had said about him in that liberation times the thing that's crazy is that you have somebody from odin i calling up jermy corbell to basically trash talk you to talk talk shit actually tell jermy corbell lies about you do you have any idea who it was that that uh called jermy yeah it was the very same odin i officer i uh interviewed with and had been acting with uh previously did he during that interview did was there anything question wise that he asked you that looking back in 2020 hindsight you realize oh he was trying to dig stuff up to uh to tell jermy to try and discredit you um no uh to be frank it became very clear in fact uh he whispered a comment to me as we walked

46:44into the room that immediately uh put me in a guarded position uh that this was not going to be a good faith interview like i said the questions were more around what my access was what i knew including about specific subjects not related to uap um i don't know what is going on over in odin or cia but they're scraping the bottom of the barrel with these guys um frankly i expected uh better and when you say he he whispered in your ear is is that what he told you that oh by the way this interview is going to be a bunch of fluff no it was just a very sharp uh strange comment that he had read all the reports that i was familiar with um in an intonate voice that indicated that oh i know uh the sources you're using so don't lie to me um you know not something that you know encourages uh someone to be forthcoming and a complete 180 from his demeanor uh in

47:49our conversations including uh in that building uh uh yeah that's that's just just absolutely um yeah i just i don't know what to uh you know what what to think about it i i i am would be hesitant to to guess that that there and that'd be the only thing i'd probably push back against that they're scraping the bottom of the barrel i would argue that probably the people they are using are are at the top of their game certainly in the in top of their game in terms of uh counter intelligence because really what what it sounds to me what you're describing is that what they're really trying to do is is network map and try to try to understand what people's relationships are and where people might be getting information regarding special access programs and uh in controlled access programs any thoughts on that um i i would just say that you know i i learned both during

48:53and after uh that this individual's conduct uh was compromising he himself mapped to three of the five indicators of insider threats and uh appeared to be unstable on multiple occasions um so you know exactly the kind of person that if i wanted somebody to do my uh dirty tricks for me would be someone at approach and say hey we know these things about you you're going to perform this task and um we won't uh you know put you under review one of the things that that i've said on the show is that part of the way the legacy program works is they get people that they know that they can compromise as a way to to you know really control them so do you think that that kind of thing could have could have been applicable in this odn i situation oh most certainly and then you know you you combine uh the stick with the carrots of a promotion uh or a role of increased responsibility and indeed that is what happened this individual is currently now at the icig overseeing

49:54uh the whistleblower intake process there for for uap whistleblowers a i and and other subjects uh so you know a complete uh betrayal of myself and others and in a complete uh disgrace to the odn i and the icig for continuing to employ this person and putting a minute risk of such uh responsibility and sensitivity and really having somebody in in in that position that is intaking again a a place where they are saying hey you can come and make a protected disclosure of of whatever sapper cap you're involved with um it seems like that's a pretty dangerous to the person the the person that is going into whistleblower if you've got this kind of character running the whole show absolutely and it's the major reason why i said in my uh in my article that odn i is not to be trusted uh people make policy uh policy is people the fact that you have

51:01provable uh hostile staff there to uap whistleblowers running uap whistleblower intake means that you know on that on those grounds alone forget the prior behavior uh no whistleblower should ever approach that organization and is is this guy also doing the same thing for aero or is that like a totally different pipeline separate but aero uh you know is is is involved in these matters um this individual went to aero for information uh from another person's case and in fact received incorrect information from aero or at least uh doctored information from aero uh that completely uh you know undermined and and in fact what uh false tried to entrap this this other whistleblower so aero is involved in a supporting role at the very least with odn i what does the term

52:02derogh mean to you uh the term of art derogatory information so just any information about an individual that is damaging to their credibility and conduct uh whether it's about their personal life or professional life or or even just the people that they associate with um it's commonly used to to force uh people in the field to to comply would you say that probably north of grumman and these other people have access to people's derogh files in uh these folks that have served the government and that is probably used in a way against american citizens that are whistleblower i mean our intelligence community is is very good at collection um and there is no privacy for american citizens and any other communications uh thanks to the uh very poorly named patriot act um so they can essentially get anything they want and more importantly uh they can lie

53:05spin and doctorate anyway they want and then release that information in internal channels to smear people uh beforehand and just to discourage uh any witnesses on the inside from coming forward knowing that the same could be done to them you said during your interview on on weaponize you said quote uh the objective is to push people towards suicide or toward being cut off from everyone they have that is a hell of a hell of a thing for uh for anybody to say out loud that that sort of thing is going on what made you land on that what um what can you tell us about that do you and do you think that that sort of technique uh could possibly be used against perhaps some of these scientists that have disappeared uh etc how common of of a tactic do you think that is I mean that that is uh one of the oldest tools in the intelligence trade craft uh book um going all the way back to to the origin of the term gaslighting from which comes from east

54:08germany where uh you know they would break into people's homes rearrange their furniture lead messages or approach them out streets and uh make rude remarks or reveal or reveal information about them and then pretend no knowledge of it it's to drive people insane make them question reality and then when they go to their friends and family saying hey I'm experiencing these things but I can't prove it because this person you know I know have no idea where they are where they came from they came in they came out of my life um it is it is quite literally to to isolate you because you can't prove the uh the crimes being done against you and meanwhile you are being traumatized and brought to a psychological state wherever you appear to be um you know essentially crazy you know that yeah so you and your wife and this is as I understand it before you whistle blue you are upstairs at one night and your house was actually broken into tell us exactly what happened there yeah I I've told it before um we went to bed as a weeknight uh just a normal evening um

55:14woke up and was getting ready to go to work um and slowly discovered you know that things were a miss in the house uh the first thing was seeing my wife's identification uh documents lined up on a on a couch and you know uh seeing that those were clearly arranged in a way too that both they would be noticed and that someone would take photos of um um medially looking around the house for any signs of a break in finding a basement window uh forced open which was too small toyota's easy choice sales event is on whether you're looking for the performance of a camera the versatility of her at four the efficiency of a corolla or all electric driving in the bz there's a toyota that's just right for you and with great deals across the line up now's the time to find yours but hurry these deals won't last long toyota's easy choice sales event and soon we make it easy toyota let's go places meet the red bull dragonberry

56:20it's one of the many new drinks out now who knew ice cold drinks could be some fire try them all only at my dogs looking for the perfect rental discover top rated stays loved by guests rated highest by real guests through authentic reviews these traveler loved stays are recognized by the details that matter most and validated by real experiences choose confidently for rentals you can trust verbo book now a vacation rental loved by guests for any individual to go through and so was in my mind a message like you know hey you were broken into uh both you probably just came through your front door um and then of course uh discovering that the only item missing in my house was my grandfather's ashes and actually my grandfather's ashes and my civilian passport um never found that passport uh but those ashes were were found by the garbage

57:28and then you know calling the police and and noting that you know hey there's a laptops television phones all sorts of valuable items all around the house absolutely none of that is taken and the police being just as confused as I was as uh what had occurred at the time I didn't connect the dots between that incident and my involvement with the uap topic it was it was only over time uh that it became clear that was a message to me um and to this day you know it's it's a little little spooky to talk about because you know there's there's no reason that couldn't happen again or it could indeed have happened again and I would never know they they can definitely definitely touch you anywhere this is before you you whistle blue but during this phase of time because I if I recall correctly from the interview you you just you you licked at this document long time ago the uh and and you kind of forgot about it so was there anything in particular that

58:34you think triggered this uh break in well it wasn't a document you if you forget easily um it was more that well uh there was nothing to be done about that document it's certainly increased by interest uh in uap and the proximal cause I believe that that break in was was just associating with people on the inside of the military and intelligence community who were investigating the uap topic I don't want to say who they were um but it was shortly following you know a meeting of minds as it were uh in mere months before I eventually did come forward to blow the whistle of congress so the timeline there kind of tells its own story okay one of the things that I've been told is like for instance what how the government the the CIA the legacy program retaliates against people is when you have a a significant whistleblower as an example uh maybe David grush they they not only

59:37target the whistleblower but but they they target the entire circle around them to sort of inflict collateral damage on these people that that may not even be involved with that have you heard of that same sort of thing uh unfortunately yes uh both family members and friends completely unconnected to sort of the national security world and those who are and do you think this kind of stuff that's happening do you think that the the sort of purpose of that is for let's say but always a blowers just making an assumption here most whistleblowers probably communicate with one another and and word spreads quick this happened to me my home was broken into do you think it is a a a technique to message to potential whistleblowers that if you come and you whistleblow that your life is going to become a living hell do you think that that's sort of the motivation behind it

1:00:37yes certainly one of them uh just intimidation uh has has its own sort of ripple uh from the individual that goes outwards it's it's it's really frankly frankly pretty disgusting I sat in uh sat in front of a person I can't say where but this person is you know we'll just say in the intelligence world uh but they were they were targeted as well and that person spouse was targeted and um and yeah it's uh it's it's really really pretty sad now one of the things that you will often hear from uh from the debunkers but really now you're hearing it from from people like Sean Kirkpatrick O D and I uh Sean Kirkpatrick being the former director of arrow and uh Tim Phillips and others uh is that that whistleblowers are grifters give me an example or give me an idea is is whistleblowing a um is it is it a a a a a financial gain and uh and if not

1:01:45what are some of can you just kind of give us some examples of the financial impact that whistle blowing UAP whistleblowing has had on people that have worn the uniform or served this country as contractor or any any any kind of way in terms of official government government employment yeah financially there is no benefit to being a whistleblower it's ruinous um no I'm I'm never going to work in the uh the field I educated and and trained myself for for over a decade um that's true for the vast majority of other UAP whistleblowers that I'm aware of some few exceptions um but those are mainly exceptions that prove the rule um you know even after blowing the whistle uh you you were then confronted with the fact that you know you're you're you're training your education your experience are are very hard to transfer to the private sector

1:02:50and you couple that with the reputation of being a public whistleblower about something as um strange to the public as UAP photos you know good luck getting a job um and and especially on this subject there there really is no future for us until disclosure happens all this intimidation that I've experienced and and fully expect to experience again means to me that um unless we succeed at getting this out there there is no future for me and my family um once the spotlight is off of us I I would expect that you know that the trajectory there is either to resume uh the sort of gaslighting intimidation and in harassment both around me and my social circle to to render me destitute isolated and on eventually on the streets um or you know something as dire as as experiencing uh an anomalous health incident or you know a nice convenient case of cancer or a suspicious car accident that is the way this world works that is uh on my mind

1:03:54every day so this is a no-fail mission on on many levels both personally and for our uh constitutional republic I understand that you are part of a new organization or non-profit that is meant to help with whistleblowers tell us about that yeah it's the Vanguard Enterprise or Vanguard for short it's uh surrounded by myself in Dylan, Portland and we just welcomed um US Air Force veteran Jeffrey Newsteadelli who also testified to Congress um and we are you know setting up a non-profit and raising funds to be able to provide um legal financial medical psychological like community support to UAP whistleblowers from the national security enterprise um frankly I fully expected that something like a witness protection program from Congress will be offered to people who came forward that is not the case um we are out here alone very few people are helping us um and frankly you know we are done waiting for organizations or

1:04:55individuals to you know sort of make good on their word to help you with a few whistleblowers and decided to do it ourselves so it's truly grassroots um we are in early days and uh hope to be able to develop to deliver on all those capabilities to people like ourselves uh who are currently out there or who want to come forward and how can people find this organization how can they donate and we'll put the links in the youtube description yeah uh the the easiest way is to go to our website vanguardenterprise.org uh we have a page there where people can support uh we use a platform that is just for nonprofits it's called give butter so we're fully certified and your donation through that platform is uh tax deductible since we are a 501c3 charity outstanding i i certainly hope everybody after listening to this interview will go and donate to you to your to your nonprofit uh yeah as i as i said earlier all of this and i've been i wouldn't say lucky

1:05:58but i've been privy to detail uh details of what of what exactly has happened to whistleblowers and their spouses uh families uh etc and and as i've often said i really don't think that the NHI thing will be a big surprise to people in many ways but i think what will really be surprising to people is to find out that there are large portions of the government that are literally run like a like a crime family and uh like a mob and that what everyone sort of thinks our democracy is is actually not that and that you have people in power that are really committing treason on the united states what are your thoughts about that thank you you described it accurately this is a criminal enterprise that is infiltrator government and deed has basically become a shadow arm of it um they benefit from the secrecy financially

1:07:04and politically um it is the source of a lot of uh families uh generational power and wealth um it's completely undemocratic i don't care what secret executive orders or laws are on the books it is unconstitutional to its core they have no standing and these uh sort of measures that have been taken to protect the uap secrecy have opened the door for measures that that trickle down and affect uh the other uh sort of aspects of political life in america um so you know i don't know how long uh uh people are willing to to sit in their oppression and do nothing about it i have for one i'm done but i'm just one man and ultimately it's going to come to the people to decide that enough is enough and this has to change otherwise frankly we only have ourselves to blame for letting us continue well mathy thank you very much for coming on the show thank you for your service to the country and and really thank you for for your bravery i know in many ways

1:08:06obviously it's been a thankless job and certainly has uh has obviously cost you tremendously both personally financially uh etc as it has to to all whistleblowers but my hat is off to you for for uh you know for standing up for what is right and it it is it is it is sad that the people that have the balls the bravery to put you know put them you know put country before self are the ones that are paying the price it it shouldn't be that way and it's just uh it's just horrible but uh but yeah thank you for for everything that you've done and uh folks please please go go to that website and what is that one more time for everyone uh vanguard enterprise.org vanguard enterprise.org okay mathy thank you for joining us and uh hope to have you back on the show thank you prave you matt uh very good to be here it was a pleasure and god bless america

1:09:07folks mathy brown gave up a lot to tell you that if you got something out of this interview you will love this episode thank you for tuning in and if you love our channel please hit that subscribe button see you next time meet the red bull dragonberry energizer it's one of the many new drinks out now who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire try them all only at my dogs