Matt Bevin arrest warrant, school ICE plans, plus Dan Monk retires

0:00Could a former Kentucky governor end up behind bars? This is Cincinnati edition on WVXU. I'm Lucy May. Today on our weekly news review, the arrest warrant for Matt Bevin. Plus, why some greater Cincinnati school districts are reluctant to make their ICE response plans public, then investigative reporter Dan Monk retires today after more than 40 years on the job. We get his take on why people shouldn't give up on journalists. Joining me now to kick off the news review is Kentucky Lantern contributor, Deborah Yetter. Welcome back, Debbie. Hi, Lucy. Thank you. Debbie, a judge in Louisville sentenced former Kentucky governor Matt Bevin to jail time this week. Why? Matt Bevin was found in contempt of court for disregarding court orders to produce his details of his personal finances and

1:04along running dispute with his estranged adopted son, Jonah. This all sort of grew out of the divorce case between Matt Bevin and his ex-wife, Blena, in which the son intervened a year ago seeking support. He alleges he was basically abandoned at an abusive facility in Jamaica at age 17, and he now needs some assistance just for his life and finishing his education. Yeah. What can what more can you tell us about the history between Matt and Glenna Bevin and their adoptive son, Jonah? Well, the Bevin's have nine children all together. Four of them are adopted. They were adopted in 2012 from Ethiopia and met in Bevin and Glenna, to some extent, talked quite publicly about this, about their frustration and not being able to adopt a child in Kentucky. They were apparently turned down by they say the state for an in-state adoption who by a social service worker who thought their family was already

2:07too large with five kids, so they went for an overseas adoption and adopted four children from Ethiopia. Jonah was, I think, the second youngest of the four. And do we know what exactly Jonah is seeking from the Bevin's? Mainly, I think he says he's living in Utah on his own with the assistance of a family he knows out there. He has a hard time finding work. He doesn't have what believed a valid high school degree. And he just wants some assistance with daily life and possibly continuing his education so that he could be better prepared to find work and support himself. He has indicated in the past filings that he has significant learning disabilities and may need maybe some extra assistance with that in terms of tutoring or some educational support. Yeah. You mentioned that Matt Bevin was found in contempt of court. Was Glenna Bevin found in contempt of court in this case? She was not. There was a flurry of activity here in

3:08the last couple of weeks after the Bevin's were directed to produce details of their finances, which the judge says is standard in cases involving child support. This is a little unique because typically a child would not intervene seeking support. Typically, it would be one of the custodial parent. But in this case, it's the the son seeking support. Nonetheless, the judge did order the Bevin's to produce their financial information. Glenna Bevin produced enough information to Jonas Lawyers that they did not seek to hold her in contempt. But they say they allege in court filings that Matt Bevin's information he produced was insufficient and heavily redacted. And the judge agreed, gave him two days or 48 hours to produce it. And when she felt it still did not meet standards of the court order, found him in contempt of court. And this week, sentenced him to 60 days in jail on contempt. Unless he pays a post bon of $500 of

4:13produces all the records the court is seeking. Well, in that sense, and came after a hearing last week that former governor Bevin attended via Zoom while he appeared to be thriving. Yes, tell us about that hearing. And strike most of us observers is a little odd because he attended by Zoom, even though the judge had asked him to appear in person. He said he was out of talent on business. And most of the hearing on the Zoom, you can see where the hands on the steering wheel and kind of his eyes peering over the top. And he continued. It looked like he was driving throughout the whole hearing because you could see or interstate overpasses and landscape kind of flashing by as he spoke. So the judge didn't suggest he might want to pull over, but we couldn't see that that happened. Well, and Matt Bevin tried to have Jefferson family court judge Angela Johnson removed from his case. What is he saying about why she should be removed? Yeah, that's that's pending right now. They've filed a motion with the Kentucky

5:18Supreme Court. The Chief Justice in Kentucky has the power to remove a judge if they find sufficient cause. And Bevin has alleged in court filings that the judge has shown bias toward him that she's seeking media attention. And this is part of her bid to get reelected to the bench. She's not for reelection till I think 2030, but nonetheless, that's what he claims. So do you know if Matt Bevin has has been arrested or if he's turned over any additional financial records? Nothing has been produced in court. And Jonas Lawyers have not indicated they've received any further information. And as far as anyone can tell, the arrest warrant is still outstanding. I checked again on that today, but there's no indication it's been served. He was out of state last week or earlier this week at a funeral. And whether he's returned to Kentucky or not, I don't know.

6:19You kind of referenced it's earlier, but but how common is it to have to turn over records like this, like financial records and divorce cases or cases involving child support? Is this pretty typical for for people to go through this? Jonas Lawyers and the judge say this is routine information requested in basically any child support action that the parents are supposed to provide their detailed financial information and then the judge determines what, you know, a reasonable amount of child support is. The thing that's unique about this case is that the child is the one seeking the support. And Jonas, excuse me, Matt Bevan's lawyers and Linus have argued that that's improper that the child has no standing to pursue child support. Nonetheless, he was 17 when he alleges he was abandoned in a minor and the judge is allowing him to make his argument. She has not decided whether he is entitled to child support yet. That was supposed to come into hearing today, but the hearing was postponed because of Matt Bevan's petition to have the judge removed from the case.

7:25And that petition went directly to the Kentucky Supreme Court? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Well, you mentioned the Bevan's argument that this is improper. And I guess based on your reporting three Republican lawmakers have filed a bill related to whether children can get support from their parents during a divorce. Tell us about that. Well, that was kind of interesting. I just popped up in the last, I'd say, a week or so. The bill was, it was filed earlier before the bill deadline. It just hadn't received much attention, but it's House Bill 707. The primary sponsor was Representative Steve Dohn, a Republican from Northern Kentucky. And he's a family court lawyer who also happened to work as attorney in the Bevan administration. And the bill would keep a child from intervening in a parents divorce case in case the law is not clear on that or seeking support. When I talked to Representative Dohn, he said that although he knew Matt Bevan, he had not discussed this case with him. In fact,

8:25he hadn't talked to him for several years, but as a family court lawyer, he just thought it showed that the law needs clarifying that a child can't come back, you know, after they turn 18 or even years later and try to reopen a divorce case and seek support from parents. So Representative Dohn is saying that this bill has nothing to do directly at least with the Bevan's case? Well, he acknowledged that that's what sparked his interest in the issue reading news reports of the Bevan, you know, divorce case and child support battle going on. And he said he just did it sparked his concern that this could happen in the future. He was doubtful the bill would get through this time because it's rather late in the session. It's House Bill 7. I think I told you 707 and it hasn't moved at all. It hasn't even been assigned to a committee. And with only a few active days left in the session, it seems unlikely to move, but you know, you never know what can happen in Kentucky General Assembly. True or words were never spoken, Debbie. That's

9:26for sure. So tell us more about Jonah's situation. You've been following this his case for for quite a while now. And I I'm imagining you've seen him appear in court via Zoom over the last few weeks. How does he seem to be doing? He's seen his lawyers express concern about him. He has the lawyers here in town are John Helmers and Molina had a had a Ruchi and then he has a New York child advocate and a lawyer don't post working with them. And they say he's discouraged. And you know, this legal fight is wearing him down. You know, it's been going on a year and not Matt Bevan and Glenn at times have filed various appeals to proceedings and obviously the courts kind of grind on slowly anyway. So he's currently he recently filed an affidavit that said he's living in Utah with very little income. He hasn't been able to find an apartment to live independently. He's got to stay with the some acquaintances out there who are giving him a place

10:28to live currently. But he is basically living day to day and is finding all this very discouraging. Yeah. Have Matt and Glenn Abevins spoken at least through court documents about their relationship with Jonah? I mean, have what have they said about that if anything? Well, very little until recently when Matt Bevan was testifying by Zoom and one of these hearings that two hearings of recent weeks, he said that they I think his words were we have spent more time and probably money on Jonah than any of our nine children and that we love him and want the best for him. Of course, Jonah and his affidavit disputes that and says, you know, if they really cared about me, they wouldn't have abandoned me in Jamaica at 17 at a facility that was shut down by authorities because of abusive conditions. The children, they're like maybe seven or eight years there at the time. I think all from America. And Jonah was one of the few who

11:31no one came together or assisting getting back to the United States. What I know that the judge found has found that Matt Bevan has not filed sufficient financial information to meet the court's demands. But what if anything has he said about his financial status? Has he said anything about how he's making a living or, you know, whether he's working right now, how he's supporting himself or helping to support his family? He has somewhat, in a previous earlier court filing, he indicated assets in the millions, including real estate and some business interests of his and other, I guess, stocks and bonds, the typical investments. But he didn't specify or describe the kind of income he derives from them. And that's generally what the court is seeking details about his income. He and hearing said, basically, that wasn't germane, I believe, and that he and Glynna both have a very little income is how he put it. They

12:35neither has a salary, but they lose from interest on investments and savings. And that's all he's disclosed, at least to my understanding. And you mentioned what's next with this case? Is there another hearing scheduled? Or does that depend on what the Kentucky Supreme Court does about this motion to have the judge removed? Right now, everything's on hold until the Supreme Court looks at the case and decides whether there's grounds to remove the judge from the case and assign another judge to it. And that could happen relatively quickly or it could, you know, it's up to the Supreme Court's timeline and they don't disclose it. So it could happen soon or later, we don't know. Yeah. Now, didn't this appeal this or this petition, I'm probably using the wrong word here, but this petition to have the judge removed, didn't, isn't this something that Matt Bevin filed earlier and the judge kind of refused to consider it? Yes, it's a little complicated, but there was

13:39a hearing, I believe, the days are running, yeah, hearing Wednesday and they had filed the petition late Tuesday directly with the Supreme Court. Now, while they asked the Supreme Court to remove the judge, they did not ask the judge to recuse herself, which they also could have done, but apparently, it did not. So when the judge got took up the case on Wednesday, the, the sentencing hearing for the contempt charge against Matt, Bevin, she indicated that there wasn't a petition before her to remove her or there wasn't a petition for her to step aside asking her to recuse herself. And the one before the Supreme Court had not been received, she indicated there was some procedural deficiency with it that has since been corrected. I believe they have refiled and it has to be certified and sent in mail to the Supreme Court. They can't do it electronically, but in the meantime, she went ahead and sentenced Bevin from the contempt charge.

14:39If former governor Bevin ends up being sent to jail, do you know if there's any precedent for that? I mean, I know that you've been covering Kentucky for a long time. Could he be the first former governor to go to jail or maybe there's a history of that? You know, I don't know, we have to dig back into the history of governors, not in my memory. Since I've been a reporter, I've been a reporter about 40 years. A lot of it involving Franklin, Frankfurt and politics. I know some governors who may have like, you know, scarded potential criminal cases, but I'm not aware of any who are over jail, particularly on a contempt of court charge. Well, plenty of interesting stuff to watch with this case. I really appreciate your break-in-it-down for us. I've been talking with Kentucky Lantern contributor, Deborah Yetter. Thank you so much for your time today, Debbie. Okay. Thanks for having me. Up next, why do Ohio overpay several daycares

15:40in the state, including some in Hamilton County? This is Cincinnati Edition. You're listening to Cincinnati Edition on WVXU. I'm Lucy May. Why are some greater Cincinnati school districts reluctant to share their ice response plans with the public? Joining me now to talk about that and other news from the past week are Cincinnati Enquirer, Education Reporter, Grace Tucker, and WVXU Education Reporter, Zach Carrihan. Thank you both for being here today. Good to be here. Yeah, thank you for having me. Yeah, thanks so much for being here. I really appreciate it. So, Grace, let's start by talking about these publicly funded daycares in Ohio that received overpayments from the state. How many are we talking about in the state? How many are in Hamilton County? There are 12 centers in Hamilton County that received overpayments, and this was actually an investigation that my colleagues did up in Columbus. So they were able to get that data from the Department of Youth and Children, and I parsed out which centers were in Hamilton County.

16:47I believe there are about 60 centers statewide that received overpayments in 2025, and that totaled a bit over $1 million for the year. Okay. For the year for all those 60. Yes. Okay. Yeah. And how do take care is end up getting overpaid? Is there fraud involved or these clerical errors? Or what what happens there? It really depends, and it's something that we're still investigating, and that lawmakers are debating how to how to sort through some of these errors. Sometimes it's clerical errors, administrative errors, especially if you're seeing about a thousand dollars or less in overpayments. When we were looking at the data, we took note of a handful of overpayments that were kind of in that smaller range. But then when you're seeing overpayments in the six-figure range, you could kind of postulate that there's a systemic error, there's fraudulent activity, whether it be folks creating false attendance records, because really a lot of the payments

17:52have to do with attendance data. So that's how we like analyze that. What does the state do about those two daycares get kind of kicked out of Ohio's public child care program if they're found to receive overpayments? Yes, they can be stripped of. It's called the PFCC Public Funding Child Care Agreement, and we got a hold of a handful of letters that the State Department released to Sen. Statewide, stripping them of their agreement if they do not follow those certain sort of regulations. So there is one center in Hamilton County that lost its end of the agreement because of these faulty numbers. So yeah, in short, they can be stripped of their public funds. They can also be referred to collections. There are a handful of centers that are in collections, and with that, you know, you're getting even more fees than the amount that you owe the state in overpayments. So I believe there are two centers in Hamilton County that have a significant

18:57amount due in collections and a handful of centers up in Columbus as well. Can the daycares appeal these findings if they say, hey, the mistakes on your end, not our end, that kind of thing? Yes, yes, they can. They can challenge the findings and basically reconsider the balance that the state says they owe. And several daycares did do that. And in several cases, there were thousands of dollars in errors on the state's end that daycares did not owe. So really, it's a complicated system. Lawmakers are debating ways to straighten it out because, as you can see, there are kind of errors on, you know, all sorts of levels. Sure. And is this the state's action on this? Is any of that a response to the allegations earlier this year that some daycares across the country were reporting non-existent children to get public funding? I don't believe so. No, I know there were a string of viral videos.

19:57Are you referring to the Somali right? Yep. Daycares in Columbus. Yeah. The bulk of the data we received preceded that sort of viral outrage. So we don't, we can't really draw any sort of definitive correlation between the two. We do know that in through that string of videos, there wasn't any actual faulty or fraudulent activity that was confirmed in those Somali run daycares. I think it was something that just gained a lot of traction on social media. But no, the data that we found is preceded that sort of outcry. Okay. Well, and we're going to shift gears now and talk about ice response plans. But before we do, during our prior conversation with Deborah Yetter, the Kentucky Court of Appeals lifted former governor Matt Bebun's arrest warrant for now. That happened while we were talking on the air. So I want to make sure to get that new information as part of the show.

21:00Zach, a local attorney is suing the Forest Hills Schools Board of Education over an open records request. What's going on there? Yeah. So this was attorney Kurt Hartman. He filed a complaint in the Ohio Supreme Court. And, and basically the reason why was he had requested via email, a copy of the district's ice response plan. And what he received in return was the response plan, but a heavily redacted version that left out a lot of details intended for administrators and people working in schools. And that prompted him to file this lawsuit in court. And what he's seeking is an unredacted or less redacted version of this ice response plan. And, um, you know, so far, it's, uh, it's kind of going back and forth right now. The school district is pushing back on it. Yeah. And so his argument, I guess, is that their response was invalid because it was so heavily redacted. Is that what he's arguing in his lawsuit? Yeah. He, you know, he's also

22:05claiming in this lawsuit that, um, the state law, the Ohio state law that they are referencing for these redactions, um, are labeling ice agents and, and federal officers as terrorists, um, or people who are attacking the school. That's the argument he's making here. Um, so he is seeking an unredacted version here. Um, but yeah, certainly there is this debate going on of is Forest Hills, the school board labeling ice agents terrorists. Are they saying that ice agents and federal agents are attacking school districts by enforcing federal law? So that's part of the argument here. And is that because Forest Hills schools said, Hey, the reason we read that this is the element of state law that gives us the authority to redact stuff. And then that's how he's making that connection? Yeah. They're, um, they're referencing a state law that was, um, passed in the early 2000s,

23:11um, right after the attacks of September 11th. So, um, basically what that law was, it was, it was giving school districts and also public offices the right to develop response plans to certain kinds of attacks and sabotage in, and this is of course, you know, in the wake of those September 11th attacks. Um, so that's, that's the law that they're referencing here. Um, so, um, yeah, it is like a strange conversation because this law was created in response to the terrorist attacks and concerns about threats and concerns about threats. So they are referencing that law. But of course, in the response plan itself, it makes no reference to ice agents actually being terrorist or doing attacks. Um, so that's kind of where things are right now. Okay. Do you have any idea what kind of information was redacted in the material that the school district provided in response to that open records request? I mean, I know you can't hard to read through redactions.

24:14I have the document right here and you can see, um, the, the redactions. A lot of blackboard here. I know we're on radio and I'm showing you something. Um, yeah. So the, um, response plan, you know, it contained information about warrants and rules for releasing student records. But as far as specific details for say like principles and teachers and staff members, if they were to encounter ice agents on campus, those specific instructions have been redacted. So, um, we don't really know what the, the school board was saying there, what kind of information they were giving principles and staff. Um, so we don't really know exactly what is being redacted here. Um, but certainly what we can see is, um, some pretty standard stuff as, as far as just reminding people what are their legal rights, what are the rights of schools. And, you know, there are some stuff that we can see that says, you know, communication with officers must be factual, neutral and limited. But, um, you know,

25:18there is a lot missing here. So they are seeking more information in this document. How has the district responded to the lawsuit? Has there been a formal response to any of this? Yeah. So they submitted a claim or, um, a response in court earlier this week on Monday, basically saying that, um, they have a right to do this. They're not classifying ice agents as terrorists. Um, and, and they're standing by it. They say that this is not a political issue, but a security issue. And their, the belief is that, you know, if this information were to be publicly shared publicly available, it would put students safety and staff safety at risk because these are security details, security information intended to be internal and only for staff and, uh, principals, teachers, that kind of thing. Yeah. Grace, as I understand it, this lawsuit was filed after a former Forest Hills school board member

26:19drew attention to the school districts, ice response on a plan on Facebook. Is that right? Yeah. Um, former school board member Sarah Jonas, um, she posted actually the exact, I believe this exact same redacted version that Zach received and I received through formal media requests. Um, and she, in a, in a handful of Facebook posts, the language she was using, um, implied that the board was acting politically by, um, sort of protecting some of this information and, and conserving it as an internal, um, document. So she, she was really sort of trying to rally support on Facebook at least for the full, um, unredacted version of these records. Zach, have any of the district's current school board members spoken out about this? Yeah. So actually before the lawsuit was filed, uh, Jeremy Ward, who was newly elected to the

27:20school board, um, made a post on Facebook responding to what, uh, Sarah Jonas had been posting and saying that, you know, this was only intended to, um, you know, help teachers feel safe. He said, you know, as an educator, there's nothing more terrifying than being in charge of a classroom full of 20 plus children and then an emergency situation arises and there is no instruction, no guidance on what to do. So he says that the board developed this for that purpose of just making sure that people in school buildings are prepared for something like this because, um, you know, we haven't heard about it happening here in the Cincinnati area, but certainly elsewhere, Minneapolis, ICE agents have gone near school grounds. They have, you know, taken children into custody. Of course here in, in Cincinnati, um, you know, it was a recent high school graduate, but, you know, they have been taken into custody and, and deported. So it's not totally unrealistic

28:23for something like that to happen. So they're saying that they want to have people in the school district prepared if a situation like this were to arise. Grace, you found earlier this year that a number of local school districts seem reluctant to talk about their ICE response plans. Why is that? Why are they reluctant to reveal those whole plans? A lot of it has to do with what Zach was talking about, just that any security detail, whether it has to do with ICE or any other external, sort of parties, districts want to keep internal. They, they, even if it's in a formal media inquiry, they're not looking to have that be publicly available information. And I also would like to add that the Department of Homeland Security has previously stated that they are using social media accounts, other publicly available data as part of their, the deportation directive. So in some of these school board members beliefs, publishing that data whether it be on Facebook or

29:28in a news article could put students or staff at risk because that data would then become searchable, easily findable on the internet by ICE agents or really any other player. So that's kind of the, the double impact there. Yeah. Well in Grace, I know you reached out to a number of local school districts about their ICE response plans. What were you able to learn about kind of generally how school districts are handling this in terms of the information that school districts did feel comfortable releasing to you? Yeah, it took a little bit of time. I will say a handful of districts just referred to existing district policies around interrogation on school grounds. Many districts have a standard, very neutral policy that if if law enforcement were to come on school grounds, they would need a subpoena or an official sort of motive for questioning a student or interrogating a student. So that already exists

30:30in a lot of districts. And many districts just referred me to that district policy. Those have always been public available for any, you know, public person to see. And a few other districts, though, did put together documents specifically for scenarios in which ICE were to come on school grounds or try to question students somewhere in the form of emails that were forwarded to me and sent to staff somewhere. PDF documents, Cincinnati Public Schools recently put together sort of an updated document at the start of this year, because really in January, that's when the Minneapolis sort of environment got really tense. So we're seeing that impact here. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, I have been talking with WVXU Education Reporter Zach Carion and Cincinnati Enquirer Education Reporter Grace Tucker. Thank you both so much for your time today. Thank you. Thank you. Up next Watchdog Reporter Dan Monk retires today after more than 40 years on the

31:30job. This is Cincinnati edition. You're tuned to Cincinnati edition on WVXU. I'm Lucy May. What does it mean to be an investigative reporter to dig deep sip through open records and ask uncomfortable questions? My next guest, Dan Monk has been reporting for more than 40 years. And today he retires from WCPO 9 News. Dan, welcome to the show. Thank you, Lucy. You know, you and I first got to know each other as competitors reporting on the Bengal Stadium negotiations with Hamilton County. And you've been continuing that work at WCPO 9. Let's talk about the story you did examining how the Bengals owners got rich. Four words have 400 other richest people in the country. And only one was listed from Cincinnati and Hamilton County. It was the owner of the Bengals. So we know there's some money in this lease.

32:31What went into that reporting? I mean, 30 years of paying attention. Thanks to the first thing. Back in the day when we were competing against each other, I noticed that you kept beating me. You kept getting records from the county. And I couldn't figure out how you were getting them because I was making record requests. I never got them. But anyway, back then, the open question was what impact will this lease have on the county? In the late 90s, I did some stories analyzing the cost of everything we agreed to. And I made some estimates that really turned out to be fairly accurate over time. This story about how the Brown family became billionaires was really kind of like the closing of that chapter. Because it was a chance to go back and look at what impact the original stadium deal had. What I learned in the research was that the Bengals

33:32not only became more profitable because of that stadium deal, but they were using their profits to acquire the shares of other shareholders. So they went from having at the beginning of the franchise, they had like 10% ownership. At the end, they're close to 99% ownership. I think there's only one shareholder who is yet to sell to them. And that had a huge impact on their wealth because if you own 100% of an asset that increases in value as every NFL team has, all of that benefit accrues to you. And so now the Brown family are worth, I think it's more than $4 billion, almost all of it from the wealth of owning an NFL team. Well, and a lot of that wealth was accumulated during the time they've been in this new stadium, right? Exactly. Yeah. It literally was during that period of time. I think I'm trying to remember

34:34the percentages, but I think they were maybe 30% owners at the end of the 1990s. A big thing that happened was that Dutch Knowlton died and you covered that story when you were at the business career, I recall. And when he died, they ended up controlling his shares and then bought shares from other shareholders in the 2010 era. It was really interesting to go back and look at all of these things that I didn't have access to in 1998. When I was doing the first stadium stories that I did, the Dutch Knowlton case was fascinating because it was like a look at the Bengal's ownership and how Dutch Knowlton was kind of a thorn in the aside of Mike Brown and the Brown family. All the contentious points in that trial really hit home to me because they answered so many of these questions about the Brown family over time. I came to the conclusion that the Brown family

35:39mainly cared about control because Paul Brown was fired by his former club. He was an owner and he was still fired by the Cleveland Browns. And when they came to Cincinnati, they were looking for a place where they could control the action. So he did that contractually, originally. But over time, Mike Brown was smart enough to know that if you own it, you control it. And he said about a plan to make sure that the Brown family stayed in control over time. And they have total control that club now. When you're talking about something that involves county taxpayers and all these sales tax dollars and negotiations that span decades and the use of those sales tax dollars, what's the role you think journalists play and all that and should play and all that? I guess I look at it as kind of a watchdog. If you get the benefit of a billion dollars in extra revenue because of how you structured your lease with the county, you owe something back

36:44to the community that gave you that money. You could argue that you owe them a winner. You could argue that you owe them courtesy to the fans. You could argue that they should be active in the redevelopment of the riverfront. And so as I look at all of these stories, there's a tradeoff that comes with public investment. What does the public get in return for that investment? Is it a fair deal? You go into it thinking that you have to be able to show the good things and the bad things that came out of that deal. So in the Bengals case, we've had an NFL team for all of that time, the Bengals are very loyal to Cincinnati. They're not interested in leaving Cincinnati. There is value to having an NFL team. I don't know if I've ever been able to quantify it, and I know people have studied it, and I don't know that it's been satisfactorily quantified, but it is worth tens of millions of dollars if not billions of dollars to a city to

37:45have an NFL team. They don't make a lot of them. And so if you have one of them, you want to keep it. Some of the people I talked to for that story said that, you know, basically that's what we get in exchange for this stadium deal, a loyal NFL team that's not at risk of leaving. Well, you've also covered very personal stories. I'm thinking of your reporting on Travis Miller. Tell us briefly what happened to him. Yeah, Travis was one of the workers who was at the Killin plant. That's a power plant in Adams County, collapsed while it was being demolished. And he was inside the building when the building essentially came down on top of him. There were two men who were killed that day, including one of his best friends. He survived the crash, but lost parts of both legs. The story is about his recovery and his sort of quest

38:45to figure out why this happened to him and to hold the company's accountable that he believes were responsible for this collapse. I just want them to own it. I want them to say that it happened. How did you help with this case? How did you help the millers with this case? And what happened with their case? Yeah, when I started working on this story, they were sort of at a crossroads because almost, well, everybody who sued the demolition company, a demo demolition, everybody had already settled. They had done separate settlements with a demo. And Travis was not willing to settle. So, you know, I had tried to approach them because I, myself, I was curious about figuring out what caused this collapse. And so, as I was trying to get records from OSHA that more fully explained how the collapse happened, I was also

39:47talking to them about talking to me because I knew that would be, you know, a compelling story. And eventually, I came up with records that I don't think they really knew about. You know, their attorneys were working on a case against a demo, but I'm not certain that they actually had access to these OSHA files. And there were some pretty incredible things in that file that really shocked me. And I think it shocked them as well. And so, they decided to talk to me and and we did a story that was a very powerful emotional story that really shed new light on what happened in that collapse. You miss Jamie? Absolutely, I do. We were as close as brothers, probably close. They know a lot of people's brothers. Have it's the Miller's case been resolved against the demolition company?

40:49No, that case is still pending. A lot of it is now sealed because when the news came out about what was in the OSHA report, Adamo insisted that the file be sealed because they're worried about tampering the jury pool. That case is still pending and I think it's scheduled for a June first trial date. Let's talk about your reporting during the controversial campaign to sell Cincinnati Southern Railway. You sat down with Mayor Aftab Purifal to talk about his role in campaign ads. And you had what seemed to be an unexpected gacha moment. The campaign is run by Jan Sudmolar. And he is the treasure of that campaign and also the treasure of your campaign. No, he's not my treasure. A campaign finance report from July says otherwise. Dan, I apologize. Jens is listed as my treasure on that campaign finance report.

41:53Previously, very recently, Evan Nolan was my treasure. It transitioned over to Jens. But let me be clear about this. Let me answer your question. Jens is my treasure. I worked with him on previous elections. I've worked with him on my congressional race. And he has been supportive of me throughout my campaigns. It was Norfolk Sutherans and some other folks who were asking about who's a person who would be well positioned to run a campaign. And Jens's name came up. I had no part in deciding who would run the campaign. No influence about that. I'm completely separate from that. Well, Dan, you are retiring at a time when trust in journalism is very low. Do you hear that from people? Do people just say to your face, hey, reporters are all liars. We know that. Yes, they do say that kind of breaks my heart, to be honest with you. I've always felt like local

42:57journalism was a noble calling that somebody has to ask hard questions. Somebody has to shine a light when things are wrong. Defend people who can't defend themselves. And I think journalists are really well positioned to do that because they have access to people who are rich and powerful. They're thinking about these things all the time because they're in the in the fray. You know, I mean, they're seeing what's happening. And you can't help but wonder about whether, you know, like we talked about public subsidies, is this subsidy being well spent? How should we feel about that? You know, to me, journalists are people who care about their communities as much as anybody else does, but they have access to information that not everybody has. From that, I think comes a responsibility to really learn about your city, learn about your community, and point out the things

44:01aren't working well, point out the things that are working well. I know that every journalist I've ever worked with approaches that job with honesty, they're trying to learn the truth. It's not always easy to find the truth. It's getting harder to find the truth now because there are so many mechanisms set up to distort the truth. The harder the job gets, the more hurtful it is to hear people say you can't believe anything. Yeah, you can believe what a reporter writes. If you look at their stories and you find out how many people are quoted in them, whether they're all from one side or another, you can tell by reading a story or watching a story how much work went into that story. It's not that hard to figure out. What I hope happens someday is that people will start to appreciate what reporters can offer and take their work seriously. Even if that means I read your story and you miss

45:04this and that and this. Talk to the reporter. Don't just walk away from media because you think that everything you read is going to be false if it doesn't meet your point of view. You talked about the role of journalists. What about the role of an investigative reporter? Do you see that as being different? I don't really know. Investigative reporters have more tools to get to the truth. I don't claim to be an expert at any of these tools and there are some people who are much better at record requesting. For example, you're great at it. There are other people who are much better at kind of cutjoling information from people. I think my approach is to bore people to death. I will take issue with that, Dan. I think you are tireless. You never give up. I think that is your great gift as a journalist. And I'm probably not supposed to say this because I'm interviewing you,

46:04but I am going to say it. I think that is your superpower. I do wear people out. Well, that's what I mean by boring people. I'll ask the same question 10 times because my basic problem is I cannot write a story if I don't understand it. If I don't understand it, I have to ask the same stupid question over and over again until I do. And so people get tired of getting repeat calls from me. And sooner or later, they give me information that helps me understand the story. And at that point, I can write it. Well, I have been talking with WCPO 9, I team reporter and one of my very best friends, Dan Monk. Dan, thank you for making time for this and congratulations on your well-deserved retirement. I hope you enjoy every minute of it. Oh, I plan to you. Thank you very much. It's been great working with you over the years. I loved, I loved the relationship we've had. Right back at you, Dan.

47:09And you've been listening to Cincinnati Edition on WBXU. Our producer is Selena Reader. Associate producer is Harper Carlton. Technical director is Carlos Lopez Cornu. I'm Lucy May. Thanks for listening.