LUCY HALE: “I Was Sabotaging My Life.”

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1:04Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer, availability amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. Your heart can tell you a lot about your health. Apple Watch Series 12 measures your heart rate every 5 seconds with the most accurate heart rate sensing and awareable. So your vital zap now with heart rate variability can tell you when something is off. And your readiness score can let you know when to rest and when to push. Here are the story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch Series 12. The features described are for wellness purposes only and not for medical use. iPhone 11 or later require based on Apple conducted study of heart rate accuracy August 2026. Visit Apple.com slash Apple Watch Series 12. I believe we were waiting for Mercury retrograde to be pre-shadowed. This is so funny. Our original date, we were going to have this conversation during Mercury retrograde. And so everyone's that's listening to this is like, oh god.

2:06But basically during Mercury retrograde, Mercury rules communication. And so sometimes things don't always land as strongly as they could out of Mercury retrograde. So we're in the clear. We pushed it a little earlier. So wow. Okay, I love that. Hey, it's Jay. I don't know what your day's been like, but I was just thinking about you for a minute. And I hope you're being a little patient with yourself because you deserve it. And yeah, I'll talk to you soon. Lisa Hill, welcome to on purpose. Hello. So happy to be here. I am honestly, I have been waiting for this moment for so long. Me too. We were just talking about how we first met. We were launching at that time a new app called Better Health. Yeah. It was during the pandemic. Yeah, you came to my house. I came to your house. I was in my living room and we hosted this live event.

3:07And what, so that's been about six years ago. And I feel like since then this interview has almost happened. But as I was driving over here, I was like, this is the perfect time in my life to be sitting down with you and chatting about life. And very honored to be here. And has that been how you've made decisions and choices for a while? Have you used that as insight? I feel like things like astrology, my spirituality definitely has come into play more in recent years. But I am an astrology girlie. I have to say, like, the more I learn about it, the more I dive into my birth chart, it's so complex. The more it's proven to be accurate for me. I don't think it's astrology can predict your future. But I think it gives you a toolbox to be like, oh, that's why this is so hard for me to grapple with. That's why relationships have been challenging in my life. And like, there's placements in astrology. And then I'll start talking about this. There's placements in astrology that can like show you past life addictions.

4:08Or I just find it really fascinating. And we were just chatting before that anything that's going to help me have more self-realization. Anything that's going to help my soul evolve. Like, I dive completely in. I'm obsessed. Do you use the common signs or are you using another astrological science? Yes. So I'm a Gemini son, Scorpio Moon, Leo Rising. What's yours? I don't know my full. I'm just a Virgo. That's what I know. You're a Virgo. Yeah, I'm dating a Virgo. Oh, no way. Okay. My mother is a Virgo. My grandmother is a Virgo. I've come to really understand Virgos. Do you like Virgos? I do. I do. Like, you guys are the hardest working sign in the zodiac and Capricorns. Yeah. You guys are the acts of service, Kings and Queens. So new Founderspect. Wow. Okay. Very good. Very good. And you were saying, Lucy, a few moments ago, you were like, this was the perfect time in your life. Why was now the right time to have this conversation? I feel like I... Do we ever really come into our own fully? I don't know, but I feel like who I am now, I'm just so much more at ease with who I am.

5:12I think I've... When we originally were going to speak, I was still like kind of in the throws of... I'm not feeling fully grounded. Like, I had my two feet on the ground. But I just feel like I'm able to live a little more authentically, openly. I would say I just feel a little more grounded and at peace with everything. Yeah. I've heard you say that you feel like your real life is starting right now. Yes. I mean, it's so interesting. I just turned 37 two days ago, which is just like... Happy Beled, birthday. Thank you. Thank you. I'm just like... Well, that's so wild to me because I simultaneously feel 18 and like 85 at the same time. I feel like so much of my life has not made sense. So much of my life has not fit a mold of what I thought I should be doing. And I moved to LA young, just like through myself into Hollywood. Right? And so that causes you to grow up quickly or in a specific way.

6:13And I'm just at this age now where like I've done all the things that I dreamt of. Right? I'm like at the point now where I'm having to dream bigger dreams, which is really cool. And like just wild that I was able to make those things happen. But at the same time, like I am 37 and my life doesn't necessarily look the way I thought it would compared to other people in my age. So I'm trying to be better about not comparing myself to anyone else. But it gets a little harder not to do that when you hit a certain age. I remember when I hit 35, I was like, oh, you know, because like I do want kids. And I do want specific like benchmarkers. But then I'm like, do I only want those things because society tells me I need to have those things or are those actual things that I want. And so the last year of my life, I've just had to really sit back and go, what do I want? Not what people expected me or what my family expected me or society expected me. But I do feel like my life is just beginning because I'm able to sleep at night now.

7:16I'm able to forgive myself, to love myself. I'm able to show up every day present, clear headed. I love my work more than ever. And so it's just like a really exciting time. It's just, I guess you could call me a late bloomer in a lot of ways. And I'm okay with that. That's such a wonderful answer in so many ways. And I was listening to and thinking just how we have these timelines and deadlines on life events. And it almost feels like that timeline or that deadline will create some sort of external success or marker. And I think about all the people I know. And I'm like, I know people who got married in their 20s and then divorced in their 30s. And I know people who were single for a long time and found love at 40. And I know people who didn't have kids got married late and then had kids immediately. And then other people who were married for 20 years and never had kids. And when you start looking at real life, you start noticing how there is no real pattern or trend.

8:22But we all grew up in these small places. And I can resonate with that where ever and around you did one thing. And you've kind of always maybe done the different thing. Yes, I feel like I've always inherently felt different. I have always inherently felt like I was like on the outside looking in. I always was the black sheep of my family. And I never knew where like my desire or dreams or gifts came from. Like I'm a believer that you are born with them. You're gifts, you're God-given gifts. Like that's a part of your mission for being on planet Earth, right? And I think that that's a culmination of lifetimes of like harnessing your gifts. Like the way you communicate, the way you speak with people. Like there's no doubt, if you believe in past lives, like you have honed this gift you have and you're using it for good. I've always had that feeling as well. Like I knew I was, I didn't know if I was like destined for greatness. But I knew I was destined to be different.

9:22And I had something like literally just pulling me and guiding me along the way. There were moments like in my life professionally, personally, where I was like, how the hell did I do this? How did I get out of this? How am I still alive? How did I achieve this? And I really believe that that when you just sort of follow that intuition and that trust, like the universe supports that. The universe wants you to achieve all of your wildest dreams. I've always felt like I was here to do things a little differently. I'm sure everyone feels this way, but like I'm like are people also feeling things this intensely? Or it's my Scorpio moon. Then I learned about a Scorpio moon and I was like, oh, I've just always had a sense of intensity about me that I used to really dislike. I used to really shove that down. I used to really not nurture that part of me. And when you do that, that leads to a whole multitude of other problems

10:23because that intensity is such a big part of who I am. And dulling that down and having shame about that caused me a lot of distress and pain in my life. And so I've had to learn to honor and like that part of me. That is the work is liking the parts of you that you're supposed to dislike. This episode of on purpose is presented to you by Mazda. Peace of mind doesn't happen by chance. It's created through the habits we build before we ever need them. That's the philosophy behind every Mazda, with proactive safety features that help keep you more aware, more connected and more engaged, Mazda helps you feel ready for whatever the road brings. It's why Mazda has been named Consumer Reports Safest New Car Brand. And as of July 2026, Mazda has won more 2026 I.I.HS Top Safety Pick Plus Awards than any other car brand. Visit www.iihs.org to learn more.

11:25A lot can happen when an accident doesn't. Visit MazdaUSA.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services. I actually think what you're saying is very accurate. That a lot of people do feel things deeply and do experience a lot going on in their mind and head. And either they can't articulate it or they don't know why it's there. Or you think you're not supposed to. Or you think you're not supposed to. And so I was going to ask you why did you suppress those thoughts? Was it because you thought you weren't supposed to have them? From a very young age, I have memories of experiencing things maybe that I shouldn't have experienced or seen. And I have very early memories of taking on other people's emotions that weren't mine. And I think it could have just been like the part of the world I was raised in the time. It was kind of like the mentality of be good. It was like the be good, be good smile, that kind of thing.

12:27And like when you're told that as and that's not like unique to just me, I think it was just like growing up in the 90s. It was like little girls were supposed to just be good. Be smile, polite, go hug them, go shake their hand. And there wasn't really space for me. I felt like to always be me. Like I was sometimes labeled a very emotional child verbatim. A difficult child. And I think back and I was like, let me also preface with. I have beautiful parents who loved me in the best way they knew how. And they also in their way were kids as well growing up. So I just want to like set the stage there. But I think, you know, and I reflect back on my childhood and I never felt like I was a difficult child. It felt like there wasn't like an emotional safety net always. And I carried that through up until now I still work on that, like allowing myself to feel these uglier emotions. And knowing that it's okay and safe for me to do that, people will still love me and my people will still show up for me.

13:28Like I feel like people that meet me would automatically assume that I am that way. But in my interpersonal relationships, like I can be a bit guarded and have walls up because I'm afraid sometimes to express. Like I have like little monsters in me that are super intense, right? And like we all have different pathways. And I truly believe like we all have this like soul blueprint. We all have a specific mission and purpose and reason for being here. I do believe in destiny in a way. I do believe we have free will to get to that destiny. But we're not all meant to be a successful actress. We're not all meant to have kids and be married by 35. I think we all have specific lessons that we want to learn and for some people you learn those lessons by getting married young and having kids young. For some people it's like finding success really young. For some people it's addiction. For some people it's loss, grief.

14:29And I just think that's so beautiful. Like I choose to see life through that lens because it's the only thing that really makes sense to me. I'm like otherwise what do you mean? Like why are we here? I think it's to evolve and grow. And I'm saying all that, you know, if anyone's listening to this who's like going through something where you're comparing your life to someone else. Like comparison is going to snatchy right out of your own alignment. And I think that that's why sometimes social media and media in general can be really, really troubling and scary because I'm guilty of it as well. Like I'll think I'm supposed to be doing this kind of acting role or think I'm supposed to be making this TikTok video or like looking a certain way or having certain things and the easiest way to get out of your like blueprint is to get too hyper focused on what's going on around you. So I mean it's easier said than done obviously. But yeah, just releasing the narrative of what your life is supposed to look like.

15:32Like my life does not look like how I thought it would. But it looks better in so many other ways. So how do we actually stop comparing ourselves to the way comparing ourselves to others? I don't know, do you know? When you find out, let me know. What have you tried? What has worked? I feel like the only way you can drown out the noise is you have to face yourself. You have to be brutally honest with yourself. That to me is the single most important thing a human can do because everyone's always like, well what's your advice for people? My advice is for people to not listen to advice. I think we all have an inner knowing and inner voice. It is there. It actually speaks to us very loudly, very clearly. You just have to be still enough or remove distraction enough to hear it. Like I always like look back on my life and I was like, oh I was cut off from spirituality. I was cut off from connection.

16:33Absolutely not. That connection is given to all of us equally. It's like the sun, right? Like the sun is always going to shine on people. The sun isn't like, no you get three rays, you get one ray. No, it's always there. And I am a believer that that connection to fill in the blank of whatever word you want to put. I say God, I say spirit. It's always there. And we cut it off. And that was such a relief for me to know like, oh my God, I was always taking care of. And it really is a journey coming back home to yourself. And I think for me, it was all part of my plan. It was all part of the plan for me to go through all the things because my God, I feel like I would be so much more of a boring person without that story because it gave me so much empathy for others. And I don't know if I would respect and love myself in the way I do today if I hadn't gone through the things I'd gone through. But we were talking about comparison. And this is how my brain works. I'll be like, I love it. I love it.

17:33The comparison thing. I mean, there is a way where you can use comparison as fuel. Like whenever, because I'm a person where I don't like to use a word jealousy but I go, oh wow, look at what they did. I want to do that. That's amazing. Good for them. I don't want to take that from them. But I want to do something like that. I think you can like do a reframe. I love a reframe, by the way. Like I think we all have these like uglier motions. Like envy, jealousy, anger, rage. And we're told that we're not supposed to express those. But there is a healthier outlet. I think for comparison. And I think just like use that as fuel to go after what you want. What's for you is not going to miss you. It's going to find you. It might not be on your timeline or how you think it'll look. But nothing can get in the way of that. I wanted to go back to asking you a bit about your childhood as you explained it. I wanted to ask you like, do you have a childhood memory that you believe defines who you are today? In my childhood home, we had this... I still remember the backyard so clearly.

18:34But we had just one tree in the yard. And I spent so much time alone up in the tree. I buried my dead goldfish under the tree. I had like frogs and hermacrabbs. And I have always loved animals. And I would make like a little pet cemetery. But I would go in this tree. And I would brainstorm. And I would play make believe to the point where I was like actually living it. And I think that that perfectly captures who I am. Because I am quite internal and more introverted. I think that a lot of people might realize. And I feel like I get my most insights or downloads or creativity in solitude. And I feel like I need more solitude than most people. And that used to scare me because I think like isolation and solitude, there's a very fine line. And I can tend to isolate. That perfectly defines me, me alone in a tree. Do you have a tree house? No.

19:34I really wanted a tree house. I still want one to know. No, I didn't have a tree house. I have a friend who has the coolest tree house. I want to live in a tree house. Maybe one day. Talk to me about what makes you feel the most still. I'm a busybody. I don't know about you. Is it easy for you to be still? I'd say fairly. But that's because I'm spoiled because I had those three years. We're stillness was such a priority in my life. And so I know what I'm going back to. And I know the value of it. And so I'm spoiled. And I have a cheat code in that we did it. And so I can switch pretty by time and by space. I love that. It's very, very, very hard for me to be still. I mean, monkey mind times a million. And I think I've also had to become friends with that as well. Because the more you fight something, the more it's, you know what I'm saying. But I like that because it's relatable. That's what people, like everyone feels that way. Yeah. I'm like a doer. I feel like I have a lot of that masculine energy where I'm just like,

20:35I'm going to go out and do something. And I have, like, I've, I've built my life because you have to. Like, I've, I've always just like seen the thing, seen the next step. Take action and do it. But it's actually a little more challenging for me to be more in that feminine, softer, quieter energy. I really struggle with it. I'm not going to lie. Like I am still like trying to find time every day where I can just be. I mean, of course I do the things. I do meditation. Sometimes it's on for like two minutes. And I'm like, we're done for today. I've recently gotten into breathwork. That does wonders for me. But it's really, you know, I think just like simply being outside helps me. When in doubt, I always say when in doubt, go for a walk. I'm a big walker when I need to think, when I need an answer on something, I go out and walk, which isn't necessarily stillness, but it's a version of it for me. Why do you think you lived in your masculine for so long and what helps you reconnect to a feminine?

21:40I think a lot of it is I like to be in control because when I'm in control, I feel safe. I don't know when I developed that, but I would say probably pretty early on, probably wanting to control the environment around me. I, like in my teens, was doing stuff to like control my weight. But it all, like anything physical is just an emotional, spiritual, like need wanting to control something. But the thing is, like that type of energy can make you, it brings success. It like, it has rewards that it comes from wanting to be in control. And like the anxiety that comes if I'm not in control. And that is something I'm definitely working on. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it makes sense because I feel like you became famous at a time when young women were being picked apart on the internet and social media,

22:40like completely and put against each other, comparison, competition. Talk to me about how you tried to navigate that and how that affected your self-confidence, self-worth. Well, man, it really was a different time. This was like 2010, you know, Instagram's just popping off, I think. Twitter's just beginning. But it was just so different. Like we didn't have the whole body positivity movement yet. And of course, I'm like 18, 19, 20. I wasn't quite yet confident in who I was, my value. I had no value system. I wasn't confident in my gifts. It was like, okay, well, I can control the way people perceive me and the way I look. So let's try and control that. That'll be fun. And then it just kind of became an obsession, I think, even pre-being in front of the camera. And I also want to be clear that like the TV show and shows I was a part of.

23:42There wasn't any pressure for me to from producers or anything to look a specific way. It was more a societal point of view, I think. And it was pressure I was putting on myself, not blaming other people for the things I've gone through has given me so much freedom. So, you know, I was choosing the career path. I was choosing, it was all me, the pressure I was putting on myself. But, you know, like the media doesn't make it that easy. I mean, I can't even imagine now growing up as a young. You think it's got harder? Like I have, I have nieces, um, fair eight and eleven, nine and eleven. And I'm just like, I can't imagine having all that at my fingertips when I was at age. Although I do feel not to take such a negative spin on it, I do feel like the younger generations are so loving and accepting. But I feel like millennials, like we've shifted a lot. Yeah.

24:42And then Gen Z and what's below Gen Z? Gen A. There's just a lot of acceptance and love and like free spirit did this that I really appreciate. But I do feel like I don't know if the pressure's gotten worse, but I mean social media is a beast. You know, and I feel like more than ever we're criticizing women's bodies again. Like why are we doing this again? And clearly it, like it triggers me badly because it is not our business, but people do to their bodies what they look like, how they, their decisions they choose to make regarding their bodies or their face. But it's also clear to me that people in the public lie are a blank page for people to project their own stuff on to. So I think it's just kind of like a chaotic vortex. But I, I just like the last year or so of just, it feels like with the pendulum is swung the other way with how we're talking about women in the media. It doesn't help.

25:42Like it doesn't, if someone's going through something criticizing them in a Reddit chat, like how does that help anyone? I just get, I get very, very defensive, especially of women in the public eye of women in general. Like I just want justice for people and I'm like, maybe I need to sit with why does that bring up so much for me? Maybe I felt like I haven't always been protected in certain ways. I don't know, but it definitely affected how I viewed myself. And I think just like being in front of a camera, I have very clear memories of like first season of pretty little liars. Obviously so excited, like couldn't believe to, that was a part of this opportunity. But also like that was when my insecurities really flared up. Like I remember we had someone who worked on the show. He did something with lighting on the show. And something was pointed out about my face. And I remember I had never noticed that about my face before.

26:42To this day, I won't say what it is, but to this day I still hyper focus on that. So it's just really interesting how like we can hear something one time and it can affect our brain can like hold on to that and rewire to attach to that narrative or identity. I mean it was really confronting being on being in front of the camera while I was still trying to figure out who I was as a woman. But like at the same time I was living my dream. And so it was like a good payoff for me. Did the other cast members of pretty little liars know what you were going through? And did you know what they were going through? Sasha on the show, like we've talked a lot about this. Like she had a lot of, she went through some health issues and she talked about this publicly. I'm not speaking out of line. And she had it pretty hard. Like the public was not very kind to her. Did you talk about it then? No, was it? No, just now, just now I'd love to sit down with other gals and chat about their experience. We need a reunion. We need a reunion. We really do. I see them, you know, the time to time. Yeah, like randomly I ran into Ashley not too long ago and I saw Shay at the gym and I saw Troy in at a concert.

27:46So it's like we're seeing each other and everyone's doing so well. And it's just like, it's so wonderful to be at this point in my life where I can look back at that time and only feel the good because there was a time in my life where I felt kind of ashamed of who I was during that time in my life. I know that's probably crazy to hear, but I was struggling so much internally and was frustrated at the world because they didn't understand my pain yet I wasn't expressing myself. I didn't know how to find the words to express what I was going through. I wasn't ready to face myself. I wasn't ready to ask for help. And since then I've kind of spoken to a lot of people involved in the show and they've shown me so much grace as they always did. Like I don't think people understood. I think there were moments when people were maybe a little upset or angry, but it's only because they didn't know. And you know, just being able to hold myself accountable, the best feeling in the world,

28:46to see your part in something and to apologize to someone and for them to receive that. Like I've been gifted in so many opportunities from the universe doing that because I've had to apologize to a lot of people. I heard a lot of people in my life and it's really blown my mind actually how like the universe has conspired for me to run into people that I didn't even have their number anymore. And I knew like I had a list of people I really wanted to apologize to and I would just run into them and I'd get to apologize to them. And just like being able to clean up my side of the street is I just feel free. You know, it's a good feeling. What was the hardest apology you had there to myself? Sorry, I don't know what that makes me emotional. I think... Forgive me myself has been hard and it's still something where I have to actively choose to have compassion for myself.

29:51And to know that I haven't done anything wrong, I'm not made up of all my mistakes or my bad decisions or how I've treated people or how I've treated myself. It's really about how I for a lot of my life was sabotaging my life. I was self-sabotaging in such a big way. And it's truly a miracle that I was able to get out of it. There's so many stories like I don't know if I'll ever be able to share but I truly believe I've been protected by an unseen force that loves me. But yes, forgiving myself is a daily choice. Because I'll be doing okay. Something will trigger a memory or I'll get a text message. Something will bring me back to a memory and I realize, holy crap, there's so much shame I'm still carrying.

30:52But that's like a part of it, right? I just do the work, I hate that saying, but do the work, do the healing and your life is just like shiny, sparkly, wonderful. No, you are actively unpacking for the rest of your life. It's like unpacking it but being like, oh, I see why you had to do that. I'm at the point now where I'm like, oh, I see why I was drinking to escape. I actually see how drinking was saving my life because it is the only thing that was keeping me going for a while. But I think when I've been able to forgive myself more, I'm only able to forgive the people in my life. The more I love myself, the more I can love my family and friends. I think that's just how it works. And it's so interesting. I've obviously talked about all of this so much years of therapy, years of unpacking. And it's just interesting that certain things can still hit something in me. That's just really true.

31:52And I think that's a universal feeling, like being ashamed is just a really bad feeling that is like a contagion as well. It's important though. I think self forgiveness is like the first step in anything. I don't do 12 step anymore, but that is like one of the first steps is admitting your powerless over something, but also forgiving yourself. The next episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. If you're talking about quality food, you can't forget Whole Foods Market, who've been holding themselves to the highest standards since they opened in 1980. That means you'll see thousands of organic products across their stores from the produce department to the aisles. It also means you'll never see certain ingredients. They've banned artificial sweetness and colors, high fructose corn syrup and more so you can shop with peace of mind. Shop Whole Foods Market in store or online. This episode is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve.

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33:55SoFi checking in savings offer through SoFi Bank NA member FDIC, terms apply. Nordstrom Rack is celebrating 125 years of Nordstrom with 125 of the best deals up to 65% off. In stores and online, we're talking incredible savings on brands you love like Vince, Sam Edelman, Rack and Bone, all Saints and more. They're only here while supplies last, so shop today. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first and more. Plus buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. It's really interesting. We were talking about this a bit earlier in this idea of how sometimes and you just put it brilliantly, we have this belief that I'm going to do the work and then my life's going to be amazing and it's going to be shiny. Or I do the work and then it's done and then I get to live. And the reality is it's cyclical. You feel renewed and then you're back doing the work and then you review something and you're back doing the work.

34:58And it's a cycle that keeps perpetuating and I've only it's only hit me very recently how people are carrying so much shame and guilt internally that it's destroying their life externally. But they can't see the connection or make the connection. People may feel guilt internally and that's losing them a job opportunity externally. And we feel so bad for feeling those emotions. Yeah. But because we don't ask for help, we don't communicate them, we don't know what to do with them. The external life just falls apart. It's so true and I just wish for everyone, for everyone to realize that like we have the capacity to change our lives internally from the inside out. And I wasn't taught that. Like most of us are not taught that like mind, body, soul, connection. So and that's it should actually be a relief for people like yes, like you might need therapy or certain external things to help support you.

36:02Like God knows I needed a lot of that, right? But really like you have everything you need inside of you to shift your life one step at a time. You just have to garner the patience and know that there is a delay effect too. Like my life, I'm just now reaping the benefits of getting sober because sobriety for me is like so little about drugs and alcohol now. It's like I had to remove the things that were keeping me from facing myself. And I, I'm in year, I'm like a little over four and a half years sober. And the first year was amazing. It was like easy breezy. I was living on a pink cloud. And then things started coming up because everything I'd been repressing was coming up. But really me taking a long hard look in the mirror, looking at my life and saying, who do I want to be? What kind of person do I want to be?

37:03I owe that to myself. I owe that to myself to be that person. And to choose that every day, no matter what it looks like. And I have. And it's the thing I am most proud of myself for. And when I meet anyone who has also gone through something like this, like I listened to your hidden interview. And I was so moved because although our circumstances were a little different, hard life path. But we all have that. Even if you're not getting sober, like changing yourself, leaving a toxic relationship, letting go of a pattern that's blocking you, that shit is painful. It is so painful. And no one prepares you for it. And yet we all go through it. And I think because of what I've been through, I just kind of... I feel like I'm a little more forgiving towards people now because... Who knows? Who knows what's going on with someone behind closed doors?

38:03Because I know for me, people did not know for a decade. Well, people close to me maybe a little bit, but publicly know. People would look at my life and be like, wow, I just really got it all. And I did, but I wasn't happy. And I didn't feel like I deserved it. It's nice to now be in a place where I can receive things like that lovely intention you gave me. Yeah, it's such a... everything you're saying resonates so strongly because... It's so funny how like having the thing doesn't mean you feel you deserve the thing. Like that idea is so hard to understand until you end up in that situation. And then you go, wow, it didn't solve it, it didn't fix it. And it doesn't change anything. You mentioned some bright, a few times, I'm going to ask you, how did that... How did you even develop? How did you even get into that position where alcohol I've heard you say before was... The only thing that really... Quite at my mind, yeah. How did you get to that point that that was the only thing? And then on the other end, how did you go, I need help and I'm going to ask for it?

39:04Because I think a lot of people... And I actually were doing this other series right now for social media. And four out of six of the people I interviewed for it, who have done things they regret, were all done under the influence. And these are not people that are... These are everyday people doing wonderful, normal things with their life. But they've all done something. And there was just alcohol was at the center of some pain in there, some massive pain in their life. And someone to ask you, how did you end up in that position? And then how did you have the courage to want help and then actually reach out? And how long did that distance take? I look back now and I'm like, oh, it's all so crystal clear that all this signs were there. I don't remember ever having a normal drinking experience. I remember the way alcohol was presented in my hometown or with friends or even in society, like millennials just liked the drink.

40:04It's true, people are drinking less and less now. Especially the millennial bridge. I was reminiscing on club days. I have a lot of good memories drinking, but I have equal or more devastating, dangerous memories. But I think I just always had what I call like an allergy to it. I always wanted more. I was like, why would you just have one drink? I never understood why someone would drink a glass of wine for the taste of it. I hated the taste of it, loved the feeling. I could never get enough of the feeling of just being so at ease. And I felt like I remember just after a drink, it felt like my costume was coming off and Lucy could finally emerge and I could be free and I could be sexy and I could be funny because I am quite shy. I'm not the girl that's going to go let loose and dance. That's never been my personality. I'm very reserved, but drinking I wasn't. I'd be dancing on a freaking countertop.

41:07I would do anything and it felt freeing. And I think I loved that feeling as a teenager. I liked being the life of the party. There was a very distinct shift for me one day. I was in a relationship with someone who also struggled and that's when the drinking the day after kind of started. And I was like, oh wow, this really eases my hangover my anxieties. And so then it would be more of a bender type situation. I was able to not drink during work, which meant when my time off would just be chaos. But it was still like in my early 20s it was very fun. I wasn't, I didn't want to admit I had problem even though I was told by boyfriends, by family. My sweet mom was always like I'm really worried about you. I would say there was a dark turn around like 23 where I was drinking to the point where I would black out.

42:08If someone's never blacked out before I witnessed someone blacking out, it's very bizarre because I've been told I look normal. But my eyes just go like dark. But I'm acting normally. I didn't pass out or anything so people wouldn't know I was heading downhill quick. But I'd wake up and not remember anything and that's obviously as terrifying as it sounds. And it got to a point where I was just drinking dangerous amounts, waking up in dangerous situations. And I remember I was in a hotel in Nashville. I've never told this story before. I don't think. And I was also doing music at the time. I was like season two of pretty little liars. We were on hiatus. And I was recording my album, promoting my album. Which music has always been so important to me. And I woke up out of a blackout in a hotel room. And later it was like early in the morning and later that day I was going to sing it the Grand Ole Opry. Which is a huge honor.

43:08You have to be, I don't know if you've been to the Opry in Nashville. But it's like every country western sensation has sang there. And like you have to be asked there by like the Grand Ole Opry committee. And I went to rehab instead. That morning I said, I called my manager and I said, I'm really scared. I don't want to stop drinking but I know I have to start drinking. This is 23. And she was like, okay, my manager flew out, took me to rehab. All was kept under wraps. I had to cancel my tour because of drinking. And which is why I've never really approached music again. Which also makes me emotional because I love music. And I loved that time in my life. Because the music coincided with my issues. It's taken me a long time to even like look at photos of that time or listen to music from that time. And so I'm just now kind of okay. Even thinking about the idea of singing again.

44:08I will say one thing about me is I've always asked for help. I've always had the desire when I knew it got bad. Like I've always wanted to change. There was always like a guiding light. There was always something where I knew if I followed that feeling of getting help I was going to be okay. It doesn't mean I've always like listened to it. I mean relapse was such a big part of my journey. I'm talking 12 years, 13 years of struggling. Because people are like, how did you drink like that and have the career you had? And I was like, well, I had like long periods of sobriety months long. I went to rehab, did a lot of things. Nothing really stuck. I think probably because there were still lessons to learn. I wasn't ready. Ultimately like I knew when I got sober I was going to have to do some unpacking. And how I've mentioned a few times like really taking a look at myself. And I knew that was going to be so painful.

45:08And I knew it was going to take time. And I knew my life was just going to look so different. And then flash forward to 32. I'm told I'm trying to do math. So I got sober at 32. It was January 2nd, 2022. So however old I was, I hit another just really low moment. And this time I didn't necessarily ask for help. But I knew, and I've said this so many times publicly, but like I knew that was my last chance. I was like, I think it's time to retire the drinking. I think it's finally time. And I'm ready. And I just never looked back even when it's been hard. Like I've, I committed to the life I want to live. I committed to not becoming the woman I wanted to be. I think I've always been that woman. I myself to be her reclaiming my power. I think I've always been a little afraid of being powerful.

46:09I think I've always tried to play small and keep quiet and repress. And just like be a good girl. And I was like, I'm tired of that identity. I don't want to be that anymore. That served me for a long time. But I'm, I can be, I can set boundaries now. I think I do inherently have like a kindness and sensitivity. But like I'm okay letting people down. I think a lot of the drinking was also like trying to take care of other people's feelings. I think like I would drink because I was so exhausted by like not being myself. And so in a way, drinking let me be myself. It's weird as that sounds. Like it did allow me to be this like edger version. And I now I've just had to like integrate that edger version into everyday life. Like I can still, you're not gonna like, I'm sure you've done shadow work. Like you don't just say, okay, buy shadow cell. See, it's been fun. Like that's not how it works. That person is me.

47:10That is a part of me. It's just finding ways to release the hounds. In a way, it's not so detrimental to my life and my mental health and emotional health. It's almost how can you stop numbing that side? And avoiding it and ignoring it and finding ways to do that. But like you said, the reason we do that, and I'm saying this compassionately and empathetically for anyone who's doing it, is because we're so scared to unpack what lies beneath. And so it's so natural to find ways of avoiding it. And alcohol or drugs or whatever it may be and people find their own version of it, can fully do that. And then like you said, you finally got to this point. If someone's struggling with becoming sober right now, what would you encourage them to do? I would say good for you, for realizing and having that awareness is everything. There are so many people that cannot admit that it's a problem.

48:14And the second that you are saying, I want to be sober, I'm trying to be sober like, hell yeah, you're already on the path. And that's amazing. I'm a very, I need to logically make things make sense. I'm a Gemini, so it's very mercury. Like I need to understand. So for me, a lot of my healing has come from understanding my patterns, my childhood, my relationship patterns, and that's helped me have grace for myself. So I think things like therapy, just talking, finding a community can be very helpful. I also like, there is no right way. I think a lot of people might tell you there's only one way. No, I've tried every way. And I've found my way. I think also a lot of, I know many sober people who never relapse, got sober the first time and have been sober 20 years. Myself, I relapsed many, many, many, many times. So your journey is going to look different. If you fall down, that is so much more wisdom, so much more growth.

49:17Just keep going. Like just keep going, choose yourself, find your people. Now you're going to have to hold yourself accountable too. This is not always going to be easy work, but it is the most rewarding thing you can do. And I think that applies to more than just drugs and alcohol to anything. Like choose yourself. Choose yourself. Choose yourself. And not everyone's going to understand it. That's okay. Do it anyway. There's so, I feel so misunderstood by people all the time. But I know that I'm doing what's best for me. And when you live authentically, everything else will fall into place. I wonder you mentioned you were dating at that time. What was it like dating when? It was chaotic. You know, I think when I was living from a place of not really respecting myself, like of course I attracted partners who were going to match that. Not that they ever disrespected me, but there has been a pattern of, in the past, choosing partners who were struggling or emotionally unavailable

50:17or someone I needed to earn their love. I had many beautiful people come into my life and they came into my life for a reason. Like I can see why I dated certain people and what that gave me. Like I also see life through like, oh, this is happening for me, not to me. I truly believe everything can be a lesson. And sometimes the lesson is don't ever date someone like that again. You know, but I would say my dating life was I was always with someone in my 20s. I was so afraid to be alone. And I found a lot of self-worth from who I was dating. Or the validation I was getting. Or how many people wanted to date me. It's a false sense of security. And it would always leave me feeling empty. No regrets. But yeah, I think I was also numbing out in that way as well. Maybe choosing people that weren't and didn't have my best interest at heart.

51:19But the good news is like when you shift internally, you're going to attract. So like it's so crazy that the type of experiences and people and things into my life. Now it's just you can't even compare. And it's incredible when you get to experience both sides. And I'm sure even hearing you say it, people are listening and watching. Like seeing just the energy shift and even how you said that and how you face it up. And you know, and it's wonderful to observe in someone where you go, wow, I can't imagine how dark that darkest day was. But it's so important for people to see people on the other side. Not that there isn't more time pack, not that there isn't more work to do, not that there isn't more things to visit and revisit. But there is a movement in the cycle. Yeah. And just being patient with that. You deserve that. I deserved that. Everyone deserves that. Everyone deserves to live a life that they're really proud of. And it's possible. And it is possible. And it doesn't mean like you don't make mistakes.

52:21Like I, every day, I'm like, damn, I should have maybe handled that a little differently. Or okay, like, because I can have a bit of a temper and I can be a little reactive. But I can laugh about things maybe a little bit more. What's angry Lucy? Like, you know what? I feel like I, it really only happens to the people closest to me. And it's not like, I think it's just, I can be a little reactive and defensive sometimes. But I know that I'm only being reactive and defensive because it's hitting a nerve. And it's something I need to take a look at. And I think a lot of my growth has come from being alone. I think, but now I'm in a place where I can grow in partnership. I can grow in friendship and in family because I can meet people at a more grounded state of mind. And I think, you know, they always say like, you're not, you can't grow until your whole. It's like, well, are we ever really whole? I think we're actually all maybe born whole.

53:22I think we're already whole. And I think it is definitely possible to grow within partnership. I think that's like a narrative where like, you need to wait until, and I'm like, I actually disagree. I think that that is maybe not necessarily true. But once again, everyone's different. I personally needed a lot of time alone. And now the last year or so, I've been ready. This episode is brought to you by Walden University. Balancing work, life and big goals isn't easy. That's why Walden University helps working professionals get the W with tempo learning. So you can earn your degree at your own pace while gaining practical skills through real life scenarios. You'll also learn from faculty with real world experience and have support start to finish. Walden University set a course for change. Ready to start? Visit WaldenU.edu today. Certified to operate by Chef Tempo Learning available in select programs.

54:23The way I think about it is you can grow together or you can grow apart based on whether you're willing to grow and communicate where you're at. And I find that people who don't do the work before can bring in a lot into a relationship. And push the other person away. Because they're not looking inward. And then the other person doesn't know what's going on. It's true. You have to find someone who's willing to grow with you. I've had to come to realize, I'm not going to meet this perfect person who has my journal list of... They might have some of them, but you have to decide. And you know this because you've been married a while. You find someone who's baggage you want to deal with and that you're going to help them carry and to know that this might be challenging at times. And I think that's beautiful. I think that's what love is. Is seeing people for who they are and really just accepting them for who and how they are.

55:23I think about a relationship as two people driving to their friends house or a party at night, but they're driving from different places. And one person's going to be there on time and they're calling up and saying, hey, I'm going to be there on time. And the other person saying, I'm going to be late actually. I'm just finishing work. I haven't wrapped up yet. And the other person's like, well, do you want me to wait outside for you? Do you want me to go inside and mingle and hang? And they're like, well, will you please wait outside for me? Okay, well, how long are you going to be? I'm going to be 20 minutes late. Okay, I'll wait. I think I could wait 20 minutes. I'll go find, I'll wait 20 minutes for you. Yeah. And that's that communication part. Because you're not moving at the same pace. You're not growing at the same speed. You're both on different timelines, but you know why and what you're waiting for. It's also like communication styles because everyone has a different communication style. And I think for me, where I've really am learning to surrender and let go is like learning that I can't, it's not my job to control or change anyone else, their point of view, their work. I can't make someone make a decision.

56:24I can't save them. I can't make them do the work. That's all on them. But I can choose who I want to be with. I can choose who I want to spend my time with. And I think there is a relief in that of like, I'm not here to control people. I'm not here to change anyone. I'm here to navigate my own life and navigate my own reactions to whatever choices people are making towards me. So, and then when you're telling that's where I'm like, what kind of cars are you guys driving over to? It's true and that matters. That does matter. Yeah, like is your car all souped up and like ready? Is it comfortable? Did you stop to get in and out? I need to know all the details. Does it have fuel in it? Or did you forget to fill up fuel? Exactly. You need to solve it a gas station? Is it a new bird? Is it a waymo? Here's it a waymo. That's a little bit. Have you seen those waymo fans? They're scary. Are you sponsored by waymo? No. Are you going to cut this part out? No, well, if they sponsor us, I'll use them. I am so scared of sitting in a car. I'm too much of a control freak. Literally, I can't sit in a car without a driver.

57:24They're going to have waymo planes, probably too. That's scary. Imagine you go to the cockpit and there's no one there. I'm quickly getting off the plane. Even though it's supposed to be, it's safer than us. Honestly, yeah. Yeah. Except when I get stuck behind a waymo, I get really mad. I know. I'm just like, come on, dude. I know. You know the little robot carts? Oh, they're so cute. I am too sensitive towards them. Like, I was eating. We were out eating on the side of the street and like over in most fielis. And there was one coming down, but there was a palm that had fallen. And so it kept going, you're hurt. And I was like, someone help him. I always reshift them. I know. In the right direction. They've done a great job of making them adorable. I know. I was like, I feel like there's a little... Even though I know there's not consciousness in it, I like... It feels like there's a little soul in there. I think you're gonna say there's a little person trapped inside. It was a child. There's a super child. Yeah, it's like, no. No, I feel like there's a little bit of like, life in them. It's so funny. This is perfect timing. We have a fun rapid fight again for you.

58:24There's been design just for you. Are there rules to this game? Or is it just kind of... No, this is to celebrate where you're at today. Oh, okay. And you just have to tell me the first thing that comes to your mind. So what's the one thing that mattered to you in your 20s? That doesn't matter now. I would say validation from others really mattered to me in my 20s a lot. I've learned to let that go. Not fully, but a lot more as the woman I am today. What's a daily habit? It's genuinely changed your life. Morning time, like an hour of slow, intentional journaling or walking with my dogs, just really setting the tone for my day. I don't miss it whether I'm here with Cross the Ocean, like I want to play and like I always make sure I have that time. What's a relationship red flag that you used to allow for that would be a deal breaker today? Lack of communication or ignoring my texts. You used to allow for that? Oh, I used to allow for it. And it would make me think I just needed to like try harder. But now I'm like, no, communication is everything to me, consistent communication.

59:25What's the best compliment someone could give you right now? That they feel safe around me. I always love when people are like, I feel like I can share things with you. I think that that always makes me feel good. I feel like you have the energy a lot. I feel like sometimes people will, it's changes, will just like tell me things. And I love it. And sometimes I'm like, oh, it's a little bizarre. But then I think, oh, they just need someone to talk to and like, I'm always happy to be that person for anyone unless you're late for a flight. Unless I'm late for a flight exactly. I want to say though, like, and I like doing this with people that I have met years back when, you know, when we talked about when we met, like six years ago when I came to your home, you were absolutely wonderful. You were very kind. Thank you. You were very gracious. We were both doing something work-based, but I didn't feel awkward being in your home as we had like lights and cameras and all this stuff. And I think that that says a lot, you know? It's like, we didn't know each other then. We'd both been brought in to do this thing. And I just, yeah, I like to remind people also that.

1:00:28What's crazy just about me in general is like externally, I don't think people would ever have realized how hard I was on myself for like what I was experiencing. But it's always nice to get the reminder that I've always been like, I'm like, I'm always been me. The thing, the thing has always been there. And I think that's true for most people. It just goes back to the forgiving myself thing of like, okay, let it go. You've always been okay. And last thing, if we did get a pretty littleized reunion, what would you want to talk about? What would be on the agenda? You know what I know people would want to talk about. So I don't know if you've ever seen the show. So my character was, she dated her teacher. And that's been a little controversial, especially lately, because so much has changed. Just with like the media, we consume the TV shows, we watch the roles, the way they write certain roles. But like this came out in 2010. So like, yeah, of course she would date her teacher. That's what happened in the book. So it should happen in the show. So I'm sure if we had a reunion, people would want to address that because it's been like

1:01:30Hollywood reporter did a piece on pretty little liars. And I noticed now, 16 years later, people have much more of an issue with that relationship than they did then, because when we were kids on this show, kids, we were teenagers, people loved that relationship because it was like forbidden, forbidden romance. But it's just interesting how much we've evolved as humans that we can now say, oh, maybe that wasn't necessarily the best way to take that character. You know, I feel like that would be the first thing we'd have to address on the show. Although I feel like they'd still be married. They ended up getting married. Oh, I can't say that out loud. I feel like there was maybe a rumor of something possibly happening. We'll see. We'll see. I would love to. I feel like I'm at a point now where it absolutely like be so down. I think everyone else would be as well. Yeah. And the fact that you've all been bumping into each other and having some of these conversations.

1:02:31Yeah. It's nice. I love that. I wanted to go back to something you said at the start about this idea of being 37, not being in the place you imagined, but being in a wonderful place. But not doing some of those timeline things of like, oh, I thought I'd be maybe in a long term relationship or with kids or married or whatever those versions are of society. Like, is motherhood something you still see for yourself? It is. I have gone through so many iterations of that and my idea of that, I for much of my life did not want kids, but I, it was only because I didn't think I would ever be okay enough to have kids. Then my sister had kids and I was just like, wow, she's such a good mother. My sister's such a good mother and many of my friends have kids. And because maybe I'm later 30s, it's like harder for me to admit that I do want that publicly only because people always have an opinion, especially if people are like, oh,

1:03:31you know, like, have you like, everyone wants to ask if I've frozen my eggs. That's always like the first thing. And I have and I think that that is like a choice I have made just for insurance because I don't, who knows? Like, I might want to have kids in my forties. Like, I think everything we, as humans, medicine, everything has evolved so much that it would perfectly be okay for me to have a child way later in life. I don't, I just don't know yet. Like, I, I'm still so career focused. I have so many goals I want to achieve. And I think I can absolutely achieve those with children, without children. I don't know. I, life continues to surprise me. Like, continues to throw curveballs. My life can change on a weekly basis. I'm sure you understand that. Like, I could get a call today and be like, you're going away for six months. But I have come to realize that I have a mothering, nurturing quality about me that I would

1:04:32love to explore when the time is right. I, I see versions of my life where I do have kids. I see versions of my life where I don't. I truly like, I don't know where life is taking me. But the good news is I don't have to worry about it because I'm always going to land where I'm supposed to be. That feels like the only mindset that allows us to survive life as well. And as you live in this gap between expectation and reality and, and, and you might miss like something else. Something else. I mean, I do always believe you're going to get to where you're supposed to go, but you might detour a little bit. So I'm just trying to go through the flow. I always try to remind people that you'll get to where you want in life just not in the way you imagine it. Exactly. And it's the imagination part that trips us up because we're imagining this path and it should look like this. But then this beautiful path that's opening up over here, you just miss it because you're too lost in your imagination. Yeah. And I feel like with manifestation and this beautiful movement that's happening where people are like, oh, wow, we're so powerful. I can create the life I want. For me, at least it's a fine line because sometimes I live too much in the future and I'm

1:05:38too specific. And it's like, well, maybe that's not the path that I'm supposed to be on. So I think it's like it's important to dream, to have goals, to have wants, you know, but I think also, like you said, I think the more present you are with your feet on the ground, you can see all the options and go ding. That's the one I'm going to run towards and you just have to like, can't be as distracted, I guess. I want to ask you about something. I have a lot of friends and also our audience who are in the process of freezing the eggs or want to. How hard is the process? And what do you have to go through because I feel like as a man with, I know, very little that just here, it's tough, hard, difficult. And then I have friends who are saying they want to do it or about to do it or have done it as well. Yeah. It's becoming more of a conversation today that everyone I hope is trying to have and the reason I'm raising it is because I really hope this helps normalize it for everyone out there who's thinking about it and worried about it and helps them have the conversation. What should people expect? Like what does it look like?

1:06:39I haven't spoken about this and I did it about exactly a year ago actually. And at the time I was not in a relationship. I did it all by myself like a big girl. And I, but I really thought about it for a couple of years. I didn't talk to many people about it only because I didn't, I only knew a few people who had gone through their experience and, you know, everyone has their own experience. I'd heard great experiences. I'd heard really bad ones. And I was like, you know what? I'm, I'm just, I'm just going to do the thing. Go to my doctor, take the shots and just be prepared for anything. I will say it was the most empowering thing in the world for me, especially doing it alone. It made me realize like not that I want to have kids alone, but I could if I wanted. And it's beautiful to have options. And I mean, the whole physical part of it was like as expected, like you are putting your body through a lot, but just go. I was very easy on myself.

1:07:40I had like plenty of time off. I knew myself though and I knew because my hormones were going to shift so much as well. I was like, I feel like I'm about to go on an emotional roller coaster. It did bring up a lot for me, but it was so beautiful. It was like things that I feel like my soul was wanting to confront just like limiting beliefs I had about myself, my life, my body. And it was really liberating. I'm not going to lie. Like I know people talk about the intensity of it and don't get me wrong. It is like go in prepared, have support, have people to talk to because it can be emotional. But I felt I was really like along with sobriety that was one of the decisions I was most proud of. But yeah, it did bring up a lot for me of I'm getting older. Why am I not married? Why don't I have kids? Am I lovable? Like all these things that like weren't really me but had been kind of lingering in the

1:08:43background and needed to be let go of. Because all of that is just not true. It's not my true nature. It's not how I actually feel about myself. So yeah, if you're thinking about doing it, definitely go in prepared, but it's the most empowering thing you can do, I feel like. So yeah, and we'll see what comes of it. Yeah, I mean, it's incredible that you're able to go do it by yourself like when you were single. Yeah, it was pretty wild. You can also get the choice to go into the clinic every day and they give you the shots. And I'm so stubborn. And I was like, no, I'm going to watch YouTube videos on how to do it myself. So I did it all myself. I mean, I went in and checked every day and all that. But yeah, I kind of felt like a badass. I got my things. It was a wild experience. But what's crazy is a month after that, I met the person I'm with now. Oh, no way. So it was almost like it opened up something in me to allow a good person to come into my life. The timing was weird. Maybe it was like two weeks after.

1:09:44It was weird, but beautiful. Tell me about that. How did you do me? I've always had this dream of running into someone on the street, you know, whatever. But then I did the whole dating, online dating thing for a while and let's talk about online dating. Yeah. Okay, I was really hesitant to do it for a long time. I did not meet my boyfriend through online dating, but I went on many dates. He's got a love hearing this. I went on many dates through online dating and I had to really come to terms with like it's just you can evolve with the times or you can not evolve with the times. I was like, okay, well realistically, like I travel a lot. I run in the same friend circles. I might meet someone through work, but odds are I'll probably meet someone online. And I did. I met some great people and I think you can meet good people. I think a lot of people want to shame the online dating world, but like your person's going to find you like I believe in soulmates. I believe if you have a soul contract with someone like they'll find you at the grocery

1:10:45store or they'll find you online. Like they will the universe will find a way for you guys to meet. I met my boyfriend through it was a blind date actually. No, friends set us up, which is never. I've never said yes to it to anything like that. I feel I don't know a dating in general just makes me like so nervous, but we met and it was like pretty clear early on that there was something special there. But I will say it's the first time in my life where it's been a very slow burn. I feel like at different times in my life, the different versions of myself, like I was like very extreme about dating if they weren't in love with me. After the first date, like why don't you, you know, it's just so extreme. And the person I'm with is just very, he's a Virgo. He's very stable. He's very consistent. He's very grounded. He's, it's a good balance for like my intense emotions. Like it really just balances me out. It's been wonderful. He's a wonderful human. I feel very grateful to be learning with him alongside him.

1:11:50Everything it brings up for me. Like the challenges, the good times, all of it. It's just, I would say it's the first real healthy partnership I've ever been in. So talk about late bloomer. Like I met him when I was 36. And I just think that's not to take away from any other person I've spent time with. I think I've learned from everyone, but it feels, it feels good to be in something that allows me to feel safe and like I can be myself. What do you feel is the difference between an unhealthy relationship and a healthy relationship? It's all about consistency, communication, being transparent with each other, allowing space for someone to be themselves. Like not trying to change someone. I think that is really tricky territory when you're in something and you want someone to behave or be a version of themselves that they're not. I've tended to like find more co-dependent relationships as well where I would kind of lose my identity within the relationship and put their feelings above my own.

1:12:57And it's so funny being in something now where I'm me. Like I can still, it was like, oh, I can be Lucy and also be in love with someone and be in a healthy partnership. Because I always thought love was self-sacrificing. I thought it was like going to the ends of the earth and oh, they don't love me. Well maybe I should try harder, be more. If they didn't love me, I felt less than. And that's like love addiction in a way. And I've had many years of therapy of trying to discover where those patterns came from. It's so interesting, just like finding, you have to go through trial and error. I think a lot of my life has been trial and error, especially with dating. And I think that comes with its own set of kind of shame. I think maybe a lot of people can relate to being of a certain age and still seeking or searching. I'm in a partnership now, but a lot of my 30s, I felt kind of ashamed of being alone and being single.

1:13:58And the people being like, why aren't you dating someone? You're so great. And it's like in my head I'm thinking, but what if I'm choosing to be alone? I think a part of me did believe that. Am I great enough? But I think there was also time in my life where I was like, I think it's perfectly okay to take as much time as you need until you're ready or to have standards. Like, it's tricky finding a good match. And like, I wasn't willing to lower my standards for a long time. I think I also had to open up and be, allow myself to experience good love. But also knowing that like, what I was seeking is very unique. And I truly was willing to wait as long as possible. Like, I wasn't just going to allow anyone into the beautiful life I've created for myself. There's a lot of people in LA, I feel like that are of my age and are single. And no one really talks about like the dark underbelly of that.

1:15:00And like what that probably brings up for people. Just a late bloomer in a lot of ways. But I wouldn't have had it any other way. I love that you found the vocabulary and language for it that allows you to own it. Yeah. Because I think that's what we're all looking for is a word of who we are. Because the world has asked us to define ourselves by husband, wife, mother, daughter, sibling. And then when you don't get to play some of those roles at a certain age, you think your life's incomplete. Not realizing that it was never about the role. It was about the relationship. Because you could have the role and be in the wrong relationship. Or it's what you want to feel within one of those roles. Because I often think about that. I'm like, okay, who am I if I'm not an actor? That's very hard for me to be like, who am I without being an actress or a known public person? I struggle with that sometimes where I'm like, what would be left of me kind of? But when you strip all those identities, like, what actually are we?

1:16:03And you know, it's like. What would you say? I would say I'm like source energy. That's the light. I think it's a frequency. I don't know if it's like a thing or a title. I believe we all have a unique frequency. I don't believe that goes away when we're alive or when we die. I think it's constant. But I think giving ourselves these labels helps us make sense of the world. I think that's all we're ever trying to do is make sense of why we're here. I feel like I love these conversations. I love being around people who are also asking those questions like, okay, who am I? Why am I here? Yeah. I mean, you've said before that you see miracles often in your life. Is there one particularly that holds your attention? I mean, honestly, I mean, it's repetitive to the sobriety stuff. But that to me is a miracle. Not only that I am still heart beating, you know, two feet on the ground alive, but that

1:17:10I can see why everything had to be that way. Like I look at everything from the lens of, whoa, whether it's a child or flowers, like I'm constantly amazed by animals, synchronicities in my life where I'm like, oh, that could only be orchestrated by something grander than me. I mean, I definitely believe in like spirit guides, angels, and this might be too woo-woo for certain people, but like, there's a couple of books I read. One's called Signs and it's basically like creating a language. No, a Lynn Jackson. Yes. Yeah, we've had her on the show. Yes. Oh my god, you have. Twice, yeah. Love it. I have also your higher self, but your team of light and the first time you experience that actually happening, you like gaslight yourself into thinking it's not real. You're like, okay, well, let me see it again. And then, and it happens. And it's not, it's like, it's not necessarily that there's more of that thing, that number,

1:18:11that red car, you know, that red car kind of experiment. It's that you're a, you have now have awareness towards it. So I use signs, like I have numbers, like animal signs, where when I see that, I know that the decision is a yes, follow that, and that is, never leads me astray. If I don't see it, I don't make the decision. And it really is as simple as that, but I see it, like unfold in real time. And sometimes I just like play a game with the universe where I'm like, show me how good it can get. Show me something so magical today that will blow my mind. And I'll run into someone that I was thinking about, or I'll know something about my mom that's going to happen. Just like, I think you can get so aligned that you are receiving information. And the trick is listening to it, because I think we're always being given those intuitive hits. We just don't always listen to them. So yeah, I mean, life is a freaking miracle. Like, what in the world? Like, I was in Mexico for my birthday on a little vacation.

1:19:11Right now, Jupiter and Venus are like perfectly aligned. That to me blows my mind. I'm like, what do you mean? There's a solar system. Like I just, I get very excited about life. What does it mean when they're aligned? So they're in the same sign right now. So Venus and Cancer in Jupiter, they're in cancer right now. Jupiter's actually moving into Leo. And Cancer is like, Venus is the planet of how we show love, receive love. My Venus is actually in cancer. And Jupiter is all about abundance, luck. And I would assume when they're aligned, I need to know more about this, when they're in the same sign of cancer, like, there's love and abundance with love and partnerships. I don't know. It just looked beautiful. My whole point is like, I just am amazed by people, places, things. What it's taken me while to get there, I think there used to be a little jaded by life maybe.

1:20:11But now I'm like, childlike wonder a lot of the time. Lucy, thank you for showing up so abundantly and full of love today as well. And as you're true yourself and a self that you've become so accepting of and could see how much you were processing so many emotions and feelings that either were once troubling you or were once tripping you up or even now still create so many emotions within all of us. And so thank you for being so authentic and real and could just, could just see it through your face. I get to impossible to avoid and it's so gracious of you to be able to do that in this space. So really grateful. Thank you. Thanks. Well, you allow the space for it. So thank you for asking. Every questions and letting me be myself. That's always good to show up and just talk about the things that feel authentic to me. So very grateful. We end every episode at final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum. Record. This is my nightmare.

1:21:12Okay. So Lucy, hell, these are your final five question number one. What is the best advice you've ever heard or received? I would say the best piece of advice is, it's kind of paraphrasing, but the answer is always within you. And whatever that interpretation is for you, like you have all the answers you will ever need. I actually fully agree with that. I think any good wisdom or advice is encouraging you to listen to that. And that's what it's taking you back to. And also the best advice is to not listen to advice. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And that's what any good advice will only lead you back to yourself. Lead you back to yourself. Second question, what is the worst advice you've ever had or received? Receipts a lot of bad advice. I think probably something along the lines of, especially with an acting, like give them what they need. And this could be applied to anything, give people what they need and sort of abandon yourself. And I just obviously don't, don't agree with that. Like never change yourself for anyone. Question number three, I want you to repeat after me and complete the sentence.

1:22:13It's about overthinking. I think I think too much about. I think I think about what other people are thinking about too much. And honestly, what other people think about me or something is none of my business. I think that's the sad thing. I think we all spend too much time thinking about what other people are thinking. And they're not thinking that. We have no idea what they're thinking. And it doesn't matter. Yeah. And it doesn't matter. And you don't know. And you don't know. And we live our life based off of narratives we've made up in our head about someone that may or may not be true. Wild. Wild. Question number four, define a good friend. Even who is not a yes person, someone who's going to tell you the truth even if it risks the friendship. I have so many people in my life who have seen me through so many phases of who I am. And a very select few who have said, this is not okay. You need help. I love you. I'm here. And a friend who will set boundaries. Like I respect a friend who's at random boundaries. And also like I like friendships where there's no expectation.

1:23:17You can just be yourself. You might not see each other for six months. You don't have to respond every text message like easy going. Fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Okay. I've thought about this. Okay. My bracelet's falling. I'm so excited. I have a few. I have a few. Please. Go for all of them. I just, I think. You can give us a few. My main one, because I was really reflecting, is that for an hour a day, each person, has to without distraction, love themselves. Like focus on what they love about themselves. And like really just nurture who you are. I chose that because can you imagine if we all operated from like that frequency of loving ourselves? Wouldn't be it. That made problems. I mean, maybe, maybe it goes for problems. I don't know, but I think just none of us spend enough time like honoring who we are. Okay. The one I have is before a bed each night, everyone has to hold themselves accountable

1:24:23for the things they've done, good, and things they want to do differently. But not in a shaming way. And more just like clean up your side of the street. And then the third one is whenever you're in an argument with someone, you have to swap shoes with them and see it from their perspective. Oh, that's good. And I'm like, shit. Because you know it would be so different. Yeah. You know, I could be better about that for sure of like, oh, wait, I need to pause a bit. Lucy, thank you so much. You're so grateful to you. This is so much fun. Thank you. You're the best. Congrats. You're your big deal. Oh, thank you. You deserve it. Jay Shetty is the best y'all. Your heart can tell you a lot about your health. Apple Watch series 12 measures your heart rate every five seconds with the most accurate heart rate sensing and awareable. So your vital zap now with heart rate variability can tell you when something is off. And your readiness score can let you know when to rest and when to push. Here are the story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch series 12.

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