Lindsay Clancy Jury Controversy_ Did One Juror Derail Justice_

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1:00You know that thing where you get an amazing pair of shoes at a really great price and want to tell everyone about it? Yeah, so do we. Here at Designer's shoe warehouse, we'll give you something to brag about, like the latest styles from brands you love, or the trends everyone's obsessing over, or shoes that make you feel like, well, you, so go ahead, show off a little, find shoes that get you, apprises that get your budget. Head to your DSW store or dsw.com today. DSW, let us surprise you. The Lindsay Clancy case, a jury controversy, did one juror derail justice? The Lindsay Clancy trial ended in a mistrial, after an 11-1 jury split, raising serious questions about what happened inside the deliberation room, beyond the reasonable doubt. That is what the prosecution has to prove.

2:04They must prove their case beyond the reasonable doubt. And if other jurors, speaking on behalf of the 11 that voted not to convict because beyond the reasonable doubt was improving, then did the juror that voted to not, to convict, obviously, that they couldn't believe that she wasn't responsible? What happened here then? And that's some of the things we're going to look at here. So it's a little bit more complicated, but it seems that the mainstream media has taken a position. It seems like gender-wise women have taken a position believing that she's not responsible. So we just want to take from a police perspective. We want to take a look at this. Folks, just a reminder that the police off the cuff podcast is sponsored by

3:08Bandol on the Believe Network. So hold onto your hats. Hold onto your loved ones. Hold onto your thoughts. Hold onto your service, though. You're about to enter true crime from a police perspective. You're about to enter the off the cuff zone, the police off the cuff zone. There's some common sense. They were the ones who called 911 to get a call. And now they're calling for change. This case is still getting attention even after the 11-1 vote. What is so difficult to understand? Well, the job of the prosecution is to prove their case beyond the reasonable doubt. And it's the job of the defense to create doubt.

4:09And apparently, lots of doubt was created here. By the defense attorney, Kevin Reddington. So if one juror who allegedly admitted that he had some doubt, but nonetheless votes the other way, well, this case was declared a mistrial. I'm a little bothered by it. You know, I was a little bit, and again, putting my own personal feelings in there as from a police perspective. Did she not understand her actions? Did she not contemplate what she was doing? Did she not know at the time she murdered these children that what she was doing was wrong? I believe she did, but I did not sit on that jury. You know, for this very complicated case, I have brought in retired NYPD Sergeant, Professor at Alberta's Magnus College in Connecticut, Attorney at Law.

5:12Welcome to the show, Professor Mike Geary. Welcome, Mike. Hey, Bill, good afternoon. Thank you, have me on. You know, Mike, it is much more complicated than people would, I guess the average lay person. But even the jurors seemed a little bit confused here. And then we find out other things, extraneous things that now are coming into play that should have been discussed in the voidere of either accepting a juror or not accepting a juror. And the person who voted, who caused this mistrial, he apparently has an order of protection against him. He apparently has a charge coming up against him. So why was he chosen to be on the jury of all these things are true? And then again, throwing in, making this even more complicated that really has nothing to do with it, in my opinion,

6:15is he's an African-American man. What does that have to do with his vote? But it is really complicating this matter. And many people now, including the mainstream media, which loves to pour gasoline on the fire, are saying, well, why is this man's vote discounted here? It wasn't, it wasn't, it's a mistrial, Mike, your thoughts. Yeah, Bill, people are saying, or at least at the very least, implying that he lied on his jury questionnaire form. And if you've ever served on a jury, you get these forms, you fill them out, and they get handed to the defense attorney and the prosecutor, and they question you back to your form. You indicated on your form that you had a brother who was a police officer. Do you feel that that would, you know, bias you in any way in this case? Things like that. And we don't know exactly how the question was asked, or there was even a question that asked him, or all the jurors, have you ever been convicted of a crime?

7:18Being arrested for a crime isn't a criminal conviction. Criminal conviction is different. If the question was, have you ever been convicted of a crime, but he was arrested and it was dismissed? And I think the charge is where it's dismissed. That doesn't mean that you were convicted. You could easily say, yeah, and, and be 100% honest, I was not convicted of a crime. So therefore, we don't know what the jury questionnaire looked like, and they've been torn up, so we don't know, either we do know what the question is, we're not exactly sure how he answered it. He was also questioned by both the prosecutor and defense, before the, in the selection process, and he could have been eliminated if the prosecution or the defense wanted him to be, but that didn't happen. So he was seated on the jury. So I don't like it when the mob mentality takes over, and you see the media thrown gasoline on the fire, and they start talking about extraneous tinderbox kind of issues like race and domestic violence, and, you know, without themselves even knowing about it. And I think that's a

8:24disservice to the general public, because they're not getting real analysis of what happened. They're just the CNN and all these other places. They're just fanding the flames. And that doesn't help anybody understand what happened. 100%. The New York Times wrote an article on September 11th, the writer named Jenna Russell. Last Friday, as the jurors in the Lindsey Clancy murder trial filed into a Massachusetts courtroom, one last time, wrapped followers of the case, knew the outcome would come down to a lone holdout, who had either held firm or joined the majority at the last minute, with the news that the jury was still deadlocked 11-1, and the judges' declaration of a mistrial The reaction from Americans was like the jury itself, fiercely and unbridgidably divided. The holdout was a hero, or was he a pariah? In a country mirrored in political discord, there was no surprise that people disagreed on what the verdict should be for Miss Clancy 36, who admitted to strangling her three children in 2023 while experiencing severe mental illness.

9:29Her supporters around the country and nearly all of the jury concluded that Miss Clancy had been too sick to understand her conduct was criminal. On the night she killed Korra, five years old, Dorsen III, and Cal and eight months and should be found not guilty, and confined in a psychiatric hospital indefinitely as a result. Another faction believed that Miss Clancy should be held criminally responsible for her horrific acts despite her mental health crisis and should spend the rest of her life in prison. So that in itself defines pretty much what happened here. Did she not understand what she was doing? Look, I view this not as a attorney at law. I view this as a police officer, someone that would make it, and what we were taught in the police academy in Detective Bureau training was that if someone understood what they did was wrong, and they did it anyway. If someone else had premeditation, planned it, and facilitated it,

10:36and carried it out, then they understood what they were doing, and therefore the defense of mental disease or defect was not available to them. That's what I was taught, and I still believe that to this day, therefore in maybe a simplistic way, I believe that Lindsay Clancy should be held accountable to the murders of her three children, Mike. Yeah, Bill, according to what we've heard on the media in different various sources, is that that's what the lone holdout juror believed that she did this in an organized, meticulous manner. Got the husband at his from his perspective. He got the husband who's gotten out of the house. She then systematically brought her children to the basement and strangled them with some sort of exercise cords or something like that. Then she cut herself on the wrist and failing that, she made the decision to jump out a window. You could see that as the actress of a crazy woman, or from his perspective, he saw that it was

11:40too organized and that she knew exactly what she was doing. Why would you jump out the window after you killed your four children, unless you realized what the significance of what you had done, your actions. Apparently, it's been reported that he believed that she was sane enough. She not saying that she was an Einstein. Not saying she was perfectly 100 percent sane, but she was sane enough in his view that she understood what she had done was wrong. It was a well organized plot intentional and what she did was she wanted to kill those four children and she killed the four children. Therefore, as you say, from a police officer's perspective, detective's perspective, that is criminal intent. That's mens rea and therefore she's criminally liable from our standpoint, from the police standpoint and the criminal justice system standpoint. If you take that

12:43tack, she's guilty. Mike, this is from Gail King on CBS News and it's replayed on Fox News. I find this report disturbing and it's painful. You can decide, folks, as you watch this, your feelings toward this. And I'd love to your comments. We know it was nine women, three men. What was the age range? What was the racial makeup? I haven't heard any of that. What was it? 70 in 70ish to 22. And one person of color and then everybody else was white. A lot of the jurors had children. One person of color was a person of color, a woman or a man. A man. A man. Is a whole doubt your a person, a black man? Yes. A black man is a whole doubt your? Yes. Well, I have to sit with that for just a second. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Why did you have to sit with

13:47that? Why? Because the the whole that juror is an African-American man, you can't digest that, you can't understand that. That to me is is extremely disturbing. And this is what the news is feeding us. Why was this a big issue, Mike? Bill, it apparently there are people in the media and celebrities might be on shows and people on different news stations. There are not there's no objectivity. They're feeding a particular perspective. There's a particular ideology. And in her mind, she believed that, you know, this man who's black, African-American, it was surprising that he would convict a woman of killing her children based on the fact that he believed she was so well organized and she knew what she was doing was wrong. And she had the ability to comport her actions to, you know, to the law as stated under Massachusetts law. He believed that what she did

14:54was done in a matter that's consistent with showing that she intentionally killed those children that the voices thing was probably, you know, her way of trying to deflect, you know, responsibility. The fact that this person who will definitely speak on black and white issues racial and justice, civil rights issues can't fathom what she was just told shows to me a lack of real understanding. You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself wearing on repeat? The sweater that goes with everything, the perfect pair of pants or the Teeves somehow always reach for first. Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy. And that's what quints does best. The pants that I ordered from quints are the most comfortable pair I have in my closet. The sleek, foam-fitting look as well as the comfort stretch make me want to wear them every day. The casual dress look make them perfect to wear for any occasion.

15:58Find your next fall favorites at quints. Download the quints app for app exclusive offers or go to quints.com slash cuff that's CUFF. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's quints.com slash cuff. Hey what's up guys it's Hayley Bailey. Okay I need to tell you about something. I just got YouTube Premium. It's got tons of awesome features like offline downloads so I can download my favorite videos before I travel and watch them whenever I don't have Wi-Fi. Because we all know airplane Wi-Fi is the worst. I get to add free, I get backroom play and there's like a ton more in there. You should try it. If you like YouTube you'll love YouTube Premium. Try it now for two months free at youtube.com slash premium. Try a eligibility varies, terms apply, cancel anytime. That's a mouthful. You know that thing where you get an amazing pair of shoes at a really great price and want to tell everyone about it? Yeah so do we. Here at Designer Shoes Warehouse we'll give you something to

17:02brag about like the latest styles from brands you love or they're trends everyone's obsessing over or shoes that make you feel like well you so go ahead show off a little find shoes that get you a prices that get your budget. Head to your DSW store or DSW.com today. DSW let us surprise you. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between Matt paint finish and satin or what that clonking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app. Download today. Danning she's an ideal log who puts out garbage and she was probably prepared to say something else about that man until she found out it was a black man. That is so horrific in our nation that is terrible and she should be ashamed of herself.

18:02Mike let me go back and play the rest of this. All right so you saw the process of elimination there right? Is she slowly narrowed it down? Let's bring in Fox D's legal editor Kerry Irvine. That was a real surprise Kerry. It was. And you got to wonder if the left wing media which has been pillering this whole Dow juror suddenly going to change its tune. Yeah I think it was easy for the media and and probably somebody's Clancy supporters as well to to cry this lone juror as the white guy that everyone loves to hate right? That's what people assume and then we learned today in a shocking black twist really that this lone juror is apparently a black man and John but we got to take a step back for a second think about the visual the scene here. This means that for weeks you had a room of all white jurors who I'd argue were bullying the black man in the room. They were angry at him for not I would say conforming to their perspective to their view on this particular case. And this revelation I think adds a new layer to this conversation because you have people in the

19:04black community who think that Lindsey Clancy was guilty. She wasn't insane at the time. We're certainly appreciated the rightful wrothless of her conduct and they're also saying hey and by the way we wouldn't have been given this same consideration at least historically. And so now we know that in fact it was this black person who was doubling down and saying I just don't see it like you guys see it and the rush to the cameras to pressure him it just being quite something. It appeared in real time we saw the host there Gail King receive a data point that didn't fit their agenda. Right you know my media question and I'm thinking like a producer for a minute I thought did they do a pre interview? Yes this they did she didn't seem like he knew this was coming but I do think her shop reflected a lot of the shop that many of us had when we learned this and look we have to point out that the defense attorney Kevin Reddington had filed a motion to disqualify this juror in an attempt to get into change his mind and his argument was that this black juror was

20:09discriminating against Lindsey Clancy for having a mental illness and so there's a lot to all this and I will say this and I said this on air a few days ago I think these jurors and Kevin Reddington the defense attorney really need to be careful about any lines they could be crossing or at least walking out to it with respect to jury intimidation retaliation. Yeah ethical rules that down Kevin Reddington I have not liked this bullying that has been taking place against this juror from day one and now that I know that it was a black man I have even more concerns about this situation. All right so that was the revelation on CBS so listen to this one juror named Nick Darge who spoke with GMA yesterday. There was several times I would ask him to show us what evidence or you know to strive when you step smart help to prove what he was saying and it couldn't just actually wouldn't engage but he'd be strong so people are talking so and things like that. Now he wouldn't be paying attention to his strong so that my favorite quote from one of the jurors

21:12so far he just couldn't get past the idea that Lindsey Clancy brutally murdered her twin children. Right. Right. That's incredible. That's incredible. That another juror said that. I know that. Can you fault the person for not getting by that? Right and maybe he couldn't get by it because of all the judgment calls and decision making that he went through up to and through the murder of those three kids which I think reflected to a lot of us the possibility that very sound mind someone who knew what she was doing who she herself wanted to be dead which is of course very sad but couldn't bear the thought of leading her children behind but certainly I think this latest revelation about this man being a person of color as a new dynamic that I think is worth exploring. Now I predict that this story is going to go away. It's super you know I don't know I just I'm not liking what I'm hearing I think it's disturbing. I also think in the world we live in now I don't think jurors should be so quick to identify themselves

22:15especially after they served on a trial that had this much emotion that had this much divisiveness that their decisions well we know now it wound up in a a mistrial but why would you identify yourself where people can dock you they can find out where you live they can come after you I think sort of it's scary and then the mainstream media just going out there and clearly letting their opinions though I mean Gail King oh give me a second I have to digest this whoa because it didn't fit your narrative and you heard this other report of Fafox say oh you didn't do a pre interview with her before you went live I mean it's disgusting I think I'm disgraceful Mike yeah Bill you know the idea of a jury is supposed to be 12 people and you're 12 common people from

23:17all over you know the walk all different walks of life ages doesn't your and this this city doesn't matter your gender shouldn't matter what you do for a living shouldn't really matter all of these things it's the and they should speak with a voice and decide because they are the trial of fact at the end of the day they have to decide what really happened and what you know what were the facts of the case and to have this sort of you know Tungja and we have hung jurors there's no that's not a big deal this one was so emotionally charged with mental illness and postpartum depression that people I think did not really analyze the issues they they she in some spheres you'd see on TV that in different you know channels she up limsey clansy was given a pass by many people and therefore they were digits accepted the fact that this is what she said men can't understand it only women

24:18can understand it and therefore you know you have to acquit her and a man and but don't remember this three men on the jury two what along with uh acquitting her and one said no whether he's a hero or a goat I wasn't in that courtroom I did not hear every bit of evidence but when you hear about people a jurors you know speaking down about another juror criticizing another juror you know just be careful about what road you're going down and what you know doors you're opening because you yourself may be open to criticism doxing somebody you somebody might try to dox that person somebody might do violence against that person I wouldn't put a past us in our in our nation our day and eight Pete you know the idea of being harassed and identified and having this kind of thing a private person a person who's not on a website a person who's not putting themselves out there saying I disagree with you they the jury wanted to nullify the charges during obligation and he said

25:24there's enough for me I may have a few doubts but I believe they proved beyond a reasonable doubt whether he's a hero or a goat I don't care the fact is how these people are coming out and speaking they got to be really careful of what you know you're opening up a pandora's box of criticism of the jury system and you yourself while you're criticizing somebody else I think it's a bad road to go down I wish none of these jurors gave any sort of interviews with any sort of media and we could just move on and see what the prosecution wants to do in the future you know like again now the big story is it was a hung jury did the jury system work exactly the way it was designed to work or did something go seriously wrong inside that jury room because after seven days of deliberations we didn't get a verdict we got a mistrial so that's the question did the

26:26jury system work the way it was supposed to and now what do they expect to achieve right now is this just and the reason I'm bringing this up is because there's going to be other mothers across this country that murder their children and we know case law establishes precedent but this is not going to us hopefully this will not establish a precedent but we've already heard what if a black woman kills her children is this a tit for tat case do we now have to find her innocent because of the facts and circumstances sort of run parallel to Lindsay Clancy I'm concerned with that and I've already heard groups on TV Oprah had a big group of people bringing up that very same scenario right how about a maybe look I believe and again I'll say it again from a

27:28police perspective Lindsay Clancy should have been found guilty and that she understood what she did was wrong she premeditatedly did it and I the defense attorney Kevin Reddington he was he did a great job he got the issue to be the medical profession and how they wronged Lindsay Clancy not the fact that Lindsay Clancy killed her three children and I think that's rather clear and I cannot find someone not guilty on the facts in this case based on the facts and the Lindsay Clancy case that she was mistreated by the medical profession that's not enough for me right she understood what she did she understood what she did was wrong she clearly was premeditated she took each child one at a time and murdered them so put me on the side for conviction Mike yeah Bill you know this in with this case when we talk about as you know is this is there is this man there's three of them

28:29is there in this jury is can man judge a woman whose whose claim in a criminal case is that she may have had some sort of postpartum depression something that a man may not be able to experience cannot experience and some women may and some women may not experience varying degrees if you go along with that that really only woman women can judge a woman in under these circumstances what do you do if you have a man who's accused of beating his wife uh injuring her severely or killing her and he says she drove me crazy it was temporary insanity and the prosecution's trying to prove that he wasn't temporarily temporarily insane can he only be judged by a man and a group of two you know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself wearing on repeat the sweater that goes with everything the perfect pair of pants or the tea you somehow always reach

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31:36all on the app download today well men who in some of whom may notice like to be henpecked by an abusive verbally abusive or physically abusive spouse once you start going down you open up that door that pandora's box you start going now in that road it turns into a shitshow it's a circus um and i think that when you get these people talking about these issues like you know he didn't understand look he told he verbalized why he truck why he believed that she was uh you know guilty if you don't agree with that and you vote you know that she's in uh who ends it you want to quitter fine the system works the vast majority of the time at like it's intended to if there's a case like this where you get hung jury maybe that is still a case of the jury system still working doesn't mean that the jury system screwed up and that therefore you know we got to blame somebody who's part of the jury and find a new way to judge women uh who are charged with killing their

32:42children or maybe have a killing a guy killing her husband what do we get 12 jurors you have 12 women 12 men can you only have a female jurors who've been abused before or have never been abused before you know you start to get all these sort of really weird iterations of what these people are talking about when you take things to their logical conclusion it doesn't total the service to what the what the issue should be though my current level of understanding Mike I have to ask you one question then yeah could you vote guilty but at the same time not believe that the prosecution proved their case beyond the reasonable doubt you are supposed to vote you're supposed to acquit if you believe that even if you believe the person is guilty but the prosecution must prove the guilty you may think oh yeah this person is probably guilty yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and maybe and maybe you feel you also feel the prosecution really put on a really crappy case

33:47under your oath that you take as a jury member you're supposed to acquit they get the presumption of innocence until such time as the prosecution proves each and every element of the crime beyond reasonable doubt so if the if the prosecution proves most of the elements of the crime beyond reasonable doubt but not all of them you're supposed to ideally acquit vote for acquittal apparently this gentleman may may have had some doubts about a few things and that's fine you don't have look you don't have to have absolute certainty to convict you you it may in his mind he may be like I'm not sure which which of the kids was killed first but am I sure that she killed him she killed the children yes did now to the prosecution prove beyond reasonable doubt that she was saying enough to know what she was doing when she killed the four kids the order of the kids I'm not so sure about who cares you know so but that's the way it works if the prosecution bears the complete

34:50burden of proving guilt beyond reasonable doubt on each and every element of the crime but Mike I know all of that and I know all of that but what my question is is if he believes according to the other jurors he said this that he didn't think the prosecution proved that case beyond the reasonable doubt but yet he voted uh that he felt she was guilty of kill of you know of criminally responsible so can you have both I you know as they say you can't be 50% pregnant yeah right I mean two opposite polar opposite things can be true at the same time but if he actually did express to other people his thoughts that she did that the prosecution not proved guilt beyond reasonable doubt he should have acquitted her if that is true you know we only have second hand of information but if if if accurate 100% accurate he actually should have voted to a quid her of the crime this is from NBC news

35:54I like his growing on the jurors and the Lindsay Clancy Martyr trial who could not reach a unanimous decision after more than a week of deliberations I'm going to declare a mispronouncement one hold out juror leading to the judge's decision now described as a man in his 30s by fellow juror Paul Devlin and an interview with CBS News Friday morning Devlin said the juror questioned how Clancy could take so many steps on the day she killed her three young children well in an alleged state of psychosis that was one of his main points that she could do this one at a time and then you know do all the steps that she did to go commit suicide Devlin and two other women on jury first broke their silence to NBC 10 Boston about the whole that I wanting to to convince to start expressing doubt they said in the prosecution's case he's very arrogant he really did not take anything that anybody said I'm not sure if Rogan sir at work he would not interact with us

36:56NBC 10 Boston reports the juror also had a history of domestic violence allegations on file including a dismissed case for allegedly assaulting his now at SWAT and an active restraining order from his team nephew who according to police reports that the juror pushes the ground and pushes him in the face repeatedly jurors who are on the Lindsey Clancy jury can speak out about their experience they cannot give names a divide over the whole that juror now deepening on social media between those following the Clancy case would that be an important thing to know about your juror Florida's governor posting if the jurors being harassed Florida will provide asylum as legal experts say one big question is whether the jurors honest during the jury selection process there is a huge question mark as to how this juror actually made it into the jury pool so we are not identifying the whole out juror because he has not chosen to talk publicly in the

37:59names on the jury list are still sealed by the court while the district attorney said no comment about whether they will pursue a retrial for Clancy there is a hearing on the matter and in the months so we will see so you know it's sort of right now as they say academic because it's a mistrial so why are they going to spend all this energy because social media and the mainstream media is loving this case oh yeah and I don't even know if mainstream media knows what to do now because it went against their narrative once they found out the race of the juror who voted to convict so I mean it's sort of it's sort of stupid because first of all the case was declared a mistrial so it's over it's over so why was it declared a mistrial that's what we're looking at now and so everyone wants to argue over the fact and I have you know as I asked you that question might can he think there was reasonable doubt and still vote to convict when he didn't believe the prosecution

39:05pulled you know proof their case right and the question now how did he get on this jury well he got on it there's nothing we could do about that someone made a mistake someone did dig it deep enough into the jurors backgrounds and I would imagine if they did dig deep enough into his background they didn't dig deep enough into the other jurors backgrounds you know I never like when the jurors speak after the case is over because I think they're entitled to privacy forever if they if they show if they you know if they desire that clearly many of them are speaking right now I think it's a mistake to speak because the media will use them for as long as they need to and then they'll throw them away like a dirty dish towel but I don't think it's a good idea for the jurors to speak and now you threw a whole new argument into this you know now throw race into it now and now inevitably a African American mother is going to kill her children and is it tit-fattat

40:10does the jury now have to find this person innocent because mental disease or defector you have to take the merits of the new case Mike yeah when jurors go public like this they they're going they're going to have a little celebrated status for short period of time they'll get their 30 seconds of fame but they don't realize that when you identify who you are on TV you talk to a host on Fox CNN MSNBC whatever happens to be local news national news there are people out there who are crazy and you are going to stimulate them to do something whether or not they think you're a bad person saying what you said or doing what you did you open yourself up to harassment you think you're what you're saying is right and you could be right as rain in your argument but the fact is there are people out there who are mentally ill and crazy and who may just attack you find out where you live

41:12harass you docks you I think it's terrible that the jurors are speaking out it's nobody's business except their business about what happened in that jury room and I don't care and I don't care if the equator or they convicted her the fact is it should not be this selecting of jurors and jurors going on TV and speaking about what other jurors may have said we don't even know how accurate they are in there in what they're saying we know they're angry so you know they're not in they're they have some emotional input into the case and you they should not be speaking out this is really bad and I wish that they would not have done this let's just move on legally and now it's going to be up to the prosecution to determine by the end of this month what they want to do bring her back for another jury or another trial or offer her a different plea or drop the charges altogether we

42:12should talk about that that's what we should be talking about we shouldn't be talking about the the gender or the you know possible possible criminal record or the you know his person's ethnicity that's ridiculous and this is what we degenerated into and it's a total misuse of the of the media we have the and the media is feeding into it because they love it it's ratings absolutely this is Boston 25 news a local station and high profile cases can face intense scrutiny we saw that of the Karen read case and more recently in the Lindsey Clancy mistrial tonight Boston 25 New York border christian McCarthy speaks with a legal expert about the challenges jurors increasingly face in an age of social media the judge and the Lindsey Clancy murder trial impounded the jurors names earlier this month citing their safety but that hasn't stopped online leaks threats and for one juror a six figure fundraiser true jurors can often be traumatic we have people that have to make

43:18very difficult decisions the impact people lives piervers wrong retired Ohio first district court of appeals judge and co-author of jurors out says the climate is changing for jurors and a social media driven world where jurors are docks and threatened in high profile cases like the Lindsey Clancy murder case the trial for the mom of three accused of killing her children ending in a mistrial the more that jurors are targeted the less willing people are going to be to serve as jurors Clancy's defense attorney Kevin Reddington tried to have a holdout juror removed from the jury citing a note from the four person claiming the holdout was refusing to apply reasonable doubt the judge denied Reddington's request an online fundraiser called stand with the juror has raised more than $150,000 for the long juror whose apparent identity has been posted online by bloggers we definitely want to ensure that our jurors are completely unbiased as they come into the courtroom

44:18and we don't want them thinking that I'm going to be either rewarded or punished based on my decision for other intensely public cases like that of Karen Reed who was accused of killing her police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe Bergeron says jurors must avoid news updates on their phones and the influence of a sea of pink shirts outside court and support the defendant it's also very difficult all in the social media age where everyone is accustomed to looking at their smart phones to get jurors not to look at their phones and not to look at coverage of the case ultimately Bergeron has faith in the jury system despite the new challenges of this digital world it's very a lot of people who have said in that share critiquing the decisions of those who have Lindsey Clancy is due back here at Plymouth Superior Court on September 29 for a status hearing to determine the next steps falling from mistribe on seen in Plymouth for CMC

45:19so there we talk about it the dangers of being a jury in this social media driven world and you know and not just social media the mainstream media is ready to out all the jurors you know it's like I know we on this show sometimes we get highly critical of the mainstream media but you know is it affecting justice the intrusion into the lives of jurors and again jurors that choose to um be outed themselves I questioned their judgment I think that's a big mistake folks this is police off the cuff if you're not subscribed hit that subscribe button give us a thumb thumbs up like us share us and make lots of comments and if you want to contribute to this show financially we have a patreon with four different levels we also have a youtube channel membership with five different levels and you can become a police off the cuff you can become part of our channel

46:20brazilas 299 a month Mike I'm uh the more this case the more they report the post uh mistrile of this case I'm really I don't know I just uh what's gonna happen you know more importantly what's gonna happen now I think there'll probably be a decision not to retry the case uh I don't think she'll have a walk free and that's a bad term because she's she's in a wheelchair but I don't think Lindsey Clancy will ever be free I think she will probably be incarcerated in a mental institution but why would they and I'm using your expertise why would they recharge this case or retry this case well you know I kind of agree with you on the 29th we're going to find out hopefully what the decision is by the district attorney's office I agree with you 100% I think that they will decide to drop the charge I don't even think they'll offer a plea I think they'll decide to drop

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48:48extra gains try youtube premium for two months free at youtube.com slash premium trial eligibility varies terms apply cancel anytime fall is a vibe so what's yours do you go wild or get a little nostalgic do you like to cozy up indoors or kick it outdoors whenever you fall for get shoes that get you we've got the trend you bring the vibes DSW what a surprise you i'm pretty confident talking into a mic hey i'm doing it right now but home projects i second guess everything is that noise normal is that water damage who do i even call that's where thumbtack comes in just upload a photo or voice note and it uses AI powered search to match you with the right top rated local pro so instead of guessing you get clarity and can hire with confidence for your next home project try thumbtack hire

49:53the right pro today is a huge huge wake up call that you know she was a nurse she was she had three children she had a record of being a good mom we didn't know any sort of misconduct at all she didn't have a rap sheet or anything like that you'd normally see in all kinds of cases and therefore her situation and how she pled and kevin renington whether you think he's an idiot or smart guy he did a great job on her behalf i think they will decide this is a a hot potato political football absolutely for the prosecution but i believe they'll cut their losses and say you know what we're not we're going to dismiss the charges against her and and let it go i think they have all the things to do um i actually hope they do because to go through this all over again what emsy have another trial and it's uh six six for a quiddle or you know

50:57conviction what do you do then i agree with you 100% i think this case is going to be over i think they'll drop the charges you know and i just like to say that um i understand postpartum depression i understand that she was wronged by the medical profession i understand that she had a mental disease or defect however i still believe with all my heart and all my thoughts and my my experience that she understood what she did it was premeditated what she did and the fact and even apparently the juror the holdout juror said this the fact that she killed the children one at a time she had the time to think about what she was doing in between each murder and let's use the word for what it is each murder she had the chance to see again what she was doing and what she was doing was wrong how about the fact that she left the little boy Dawson after she strangled an

51:57on her husband's desk in his office that is absolutely horrific and i i have to think that she understood what she did oh she's so a quick thing this uh police officer the cop podcast is sponsored by fendill on the believe network mike your final thoughts yeah bill um we we we can't help looking at this from a police perspective uh other people look at it from a nurse's perspective or doctor protector psychiatrist perspective we see this as cops because we've seen horrific things in our career and so i i agree with you i'm not saying she's perfect i'm not saying she was perfectly sane but i believe that there was enough sanity there and enough organization shown that she knew what she was doing um if i was a licensed psychologist i might feel very differently but from our my perspective our perspective i agree with you i believe she was guilty folks thank you so much for

52:59um tuning in thank you very much for your comments your respectful comments in in the chat uh this is a difficult case and it's a lot of uh motion on both sides but this case should not be used as a causal lab but others cases similar to this and saying because the race of the person that did this was white therefore someone of color that does the same thing should get the same results that's not the way the criminal justice system works and for the mainstream media to be pushing that narrative out there to me is irresponsible so folks again thank you so much for tuning in on behalf of myself bill cannon and professor mike giri we'll see you in the next time have a great day and god bless tg

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