Rebecca Zung: Negotiating a High-Conflict Divorce

By lunchtime on the day of your trial, you may still be on your first witness. That is the reality Rebecca Zung wants people to understand before they pin their hopes on a courtroom: the day gets carved up, the judge steps out for other matters, and the witnesses you were counting on to tell your story often never take the stand.

Rebecca Zung is an attorney who spent roughly twenty years in high-net-worth family law before building a body of work on negotiating against high-conflict people. She is a speaker and author, and she frames the whole problem as one of strategy and leverage rather than of who comes across as more sympathetic.

In this episode, Zung and Lisa work through why the judge will not be your savior, and why you have to translate your situation into the five things courts actually decide: property, spousal support, custody, child support, and attorney fees. She explains why trial is a last resort, given the cost, the risk of appeal, and the years a stay can add, and why a single full day almost never lets you present the case you imagined. She makes the case for vetting a lawyer on whether they will listen, so you do not rebuild the same controlling relationship you are trying to escape.

She closes on the heart of her negotiation approach: mindset first, because you have to believe your position before anyone else will, and leverage that targets what a high-conflict opponent values most, which is usually how they look, rather than simply giving up more at the table.

As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.

🎓 What you'll learn

• Why the judge won't be your savior, and why you must translate facts into legal categories
• The reality of a trial day: a full day scheduled, and your key witnesses may never testify
• Why trial is a last resort: the cost, the appeal risk, and the years a stay can add
• Reframe everything into the five things judges rule on: property, support, custody, child support, fees
• Why the words "narcissist" and "abuse" fall flat in court, and what to show instead
• Vetting a lawyer on whether they'll listen, so you don't rebuild the same controlling dynamic
• Taking strategic oversight of your own case instead of handing over all authority
• Where negotiation leverage really comes from: what your opponent values most, not more money

⏱️ Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 Intro, and how a teacher became a negotiation lawyer
9:00 Classroom management as negotiation training
11:00 The myth that the judge will save you
13:00 Why you don't want to go to trial
15:00 A trial day, hour by hour
19:00 Exhibits, delays, and the pro se experience
22:00 Choosing a lawyer who will actually listen
29:00 What her method builds: mindset and offense
32:00 Reframing facts into the five things judges rule on
49:00 Negotiating a high-conflict opponent: leverage and supply

Keep going 💜
Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call
📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X
📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183
🔗 Rebecca Zung: https://www.rebeccazung.com/
🔗 Rebecca's book, SLAY the Bully: How to Negotiate with a Narcissist and Win: https://www.amazon.com/SLAY-Bully-How-Negotiate-Narcissist/dp/1637586868

About Been There Got Out
Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.