Lead Better - Showing Others That You Have Heard Them

0:00Good afternoon, Scott Baker. Good afternoon, my Guy, I gather that you're interested in good afternoons and the greetings and salutations. I do. You've heard that. I was interested if you heard in the background the sounds of demolition taking place in my house. I did hear that as well and I thought, should I bring that up and I opted not to. Well, I think the contractor who is here doing a little bit of work on Sunday because he's a friend of mine and you want to get working. It might be nice for him to know that we've heard him, right? We have heard him, yes. You know, and what I would suggest is playing for him the Tom Wait song. What's he building in there? Oh, okay. Yeah, it's kind of a, it's not a, I don't know that it's a family friendly song, but it's a good one.

1:05So he wanted to know if he was going to make his way onto the podcast and I said, if you hammer loud, not I'm sure you'll make sure. You did. Yeah. Well, that's the, and that is the point of today's field note that we're talking about. Thank you, everybody listening to lead better today watching lead better today. It is entitled showing others that you have heard them field note 1732 and there, there's an immediate sort of thing that we kind of know that it's good if somebody is saying something that you say, I get what you're saying. And we all respond well to that. And if you said in that sort of, I guess they call that mirroring, right? Is that what the often somebody says something and then you nod, you know, there's reflexive list, you know. And then if you repeat it back to them, I guess that's good. And you would say, we all know that's true, but it actually doesn't happen as often as you would think. Like I, like inventory your last week. One of the way, how many times does somebody go? Wait a minute.

2:05Is this what you're saying? And then you were like, yeah, and they were like, oh, wow, that's really it. And then you felt like top of the world. I bet for most of us, that's happened like five times in the last year. No, most of my conversations recently have been about the extreme opposite of that. I'm trying to encourage one of my children to listen. And it has become self evident that he only listens to one out of every six words. And so, right. So he can hear my words, but it's just sparse in between. Right. So I think one of the fun things to do here, because the field knows goes through the territory and positions this idea that that all leaders have this tool to show people that they have not just been listened to, but that they have been heard. Because anybody can listen, right? We assume that's kind of like this invisible thing that's happening. But when I show or demonstrate to you by what I say and through my actions that I've actually heard you, that can be really powerful.

3:06Now, that can also happen in the moment. In the field note deals with a lot of those scenarios. But then I think there are some other things we can get into that show how we as leaders can demonstrate to people that we really have heard them been influenced by them. And maybe that's even more powerful, more profound. Right. Okay, so before we get into the build up of like what you're saying, like what's good and powerful. Can we talk about what's bad for a second first? Because I was thinking about times when this frustrated me. And these, the times where it frustrates me is actually when an LLM is trying to do this to me. I don't know. But sometimes LLMs will be flowery in their language and flattering. And I don't, it really turns me off like it makes me want to dial that down. But oftentimes LLMs will do this exact thing that we're saying in the field note. And it doesn't make me respond in the same way that it makes me respond to humans. It actually frustrates me.

4:07And I think it's because I know that the LLM is doing it tactically for one or two reasons. One because it's programmed to do it. And secondly, something that we've learned recently is that it does that because it's actually buying time. For it to pretend even more that it's being conversational. So it's trying to come up with whatever answer it's going to generate. So it reflexively gives you this filler word. And the filler word actually is something that we would recommend. Like we want leaders to, but we don't want you to do it as a filler word. So I do wonder if the more we see LLMs doing it and humans being frustrated by that. If there will in time be an adjustment that admired leaders make to kind of compensate for the fact that a lot of people might not like it reflexively because they've been seen happen from LLMs.

5:10I think that that could be true. And I think you actually hit on something that is is pretty interesting, right? And let's not dive right now into the what the AI does when it's trying to slow you down for a second while it's catching up. Let's come back to that because I think that's actually important. And we all would do that sometimes in a conversation. Well, let me think about that for a second. What did you mean by? Because we're actually buying time while we're processing. But most of the time that I think what happens there is that you feel like the LLM is patronizing you. And that could happen by a leader to a person too on the team. Because if you look at like the sample saying which are pretty common that we would think of in these scenarios. What I'm hearing is I appreciate learning that. So if I understand correctly, here's what I'm taking away from this. Let me make sure I've got this right. All of those could be done and be very effective and very nuanced. And all of them could totally blow up because they've seemed patronizing. And that's what seems to bother you probably whether it's from an LLM or from a living breathing human being.

6:11Well, I don't know why it bothers me from one end and not the other. Because technically if you take our advice here in the field note and you incorporate this into your life. It's just a metaphor to say that you have programmed this into your life. It is now in your programming to use these phrases and be reflexive. So is it somehow less authentic that you've worked on it and you have actually incorporated into your life? Why is it that I would naturally give humans points for doing that? That I don't give. You don't bother for having a positive behavior that they're working on. And by the way, one side thing is in admired leadership sort of worldview, hacks and tactics backfire, but routines and behaviors and habits become the real you. That's the demonstration of the authentic you. It's not what you think in your head. It's what you demonstrate. So, but if you're often as a leader saying, let me see if I understand this.

7:12Then people believe that that actually is how you like to process information. And that you are interested in what other people have to say. And I think that even though if I hear what you're saying, Mikey, about your LLM resistance. If the human is acting like that, if I just said, Mikey, let me see if I understand this about your attitudes towards LLM's. I don't even think you'd give me points for that. Because you'd be like, you're just doing a thing. Because I could read that as tactical in you, right? I could read it as you're trying to get a certain response out of me by what you're doing. Yes, right. So, it brings up another thing in my mind though. Because if you and I had a second hand nature to our relationship, where you didn't need to hear from me all the time that I was hearing you. Like you didn't, you didn't need that relational encouragement because our relationship is so deep.

8:14But then I can do that. Then it might feel like you don't, you don't need to apologize all the time, right? So I was thinking the movie about the guy with Tourette's at the moment in the movie, where I was tired of hearing him constantly apologize because of his tics and his outbursts. The character that he was speaking to said it in the movie. Listen, you need to stop apologizing, right? Yeah, right. Because their relationship evolved past the point of him needing to apologize all the time. And I want my relationship with you to evolve past the point where I don't need you to say, I hear what you're saying, right? Right. That I understand that we hear with each other when we're saying, well, it doesn't mean that we don't sometimes enter into the dance, the ritual of saying, let me speak back what I think I heard you say so that I make sure that we're on the same page here. And there are moments like that. And it would be in moments when you're giving me a direction,

9:16or it would be your sharing feedback in a way that I might not actually understand, right? If there's high time. But if I'm doing it just to live out a ritual and you know that I'm just living out a ritual, that's where it might get a little bit frustrating. Yeah. Well, look, if you were looking at this at a metal level, what you're really looking at is the power of actual communication happening, right? Yeah, right. That we have exchanged ideas and information in a way that is productive, conducive to all kinds of things. And I read just the other day about two great thinkers, and I forgot which ones. But it was talking about how one of them died that the missing thing was the conversation, that this philosopher was like, there's ideas of all this, but the magic is in the conversation. And they would spend hours each day just talking about ideas with each other.

10:19But it was the conversation that was where that happened. And we say an admired leadership that all things good or bad usually come about because of conversation. So if you're a leader and you think you're good at this, you're probably not good enough. And this is the thing, that's the thing, which is you can become more and more masterful at demonstrating interest, gauging a deeper level of conversation. And it's not just saying, I've heard you. Now the field note is about this power. What happens to people when they feel heard? It talks about, if there's tension in the room, if there's anxiety, a leader can bring that down, can steady the emotions by just saying, okay, I think I understand what's happening here. I understand the, I sense all of the sort of reticence, and this is the way I'm understanding it. That's enormously powerful. But beyond just kind of this reflexive, I think I hear this, you were pointing to what I think are even deeper ways and more nuanced ways of doing this, which is actual curiosity that would come in unpacking the idea.

11:25Tell me more about that, I'm not sure I understood it. Or I heard you say this, and I think I understand this part, but not this part. If I'm starting to dissect this into pieces, that's now really showing that I am curious about what you're going to say. Or if I say, wait a minute, can you back up two seconds? I was with you, but then you lost me here, but I think that was my fault. Say that one more time. The more that I do those kinds of things, the more that I actually believe that you are interested, and that I do feel heard. Yeah, so much about good leadership seems to be this notion of leaning into curiosity. It shows up in a lot of different places, and this is certainly one of them. Now, let me also throw something else out here with the idea of when you and I are going back and forth, and I have something that you want that you're going to want me to understand.

12:25And eventually we get to the point where we have, we finish each other's sentences, right? In a lot of ways, our relationship is we're excited about the fact that I have a relationship with someone where we don't really even need to go through that dance of finishing each other. We are finishing each other's sentences. Is that the actual goal of relationship, right? Maybe we shouldn't... I think of that as like a high ideal of me being so close to someone that we quote unquote finish each other's sentences. Maybe that is not like the practice of going through conversation, like these two guys that you were talking about, these philosophers who actually wanted to go through the practice of it, so that when one of those died, the other one could probably write out the conversation in the way that the other person could have it, but why wouldn't that be just as effective for him, right? And it's because he needed the reciprocal relationship of someone else,

13:27like there was a magic there that happened that even though we are... It could finish each other's sentences, we're not, we're listening, right? Or finish each other's sandwiches as they say and frozen. So one of the things there is... There's an old joke, by the way, I think it was... I can't remember if it was set in a prison or in a retirement home or whatever, but it was like all the jokes got cut down. All the comedians would tell jokes to each other, but they would just use a number. Yes. Like in a moment, they go like 17. Because it was the save time on actually telling the joke, because we all knew what number 17 stood for. But at some point, you're just playing tennis against the wall. The pleasure is in the back and forth. Now, one of the things that's really interesting here, and I'm setting it to the side because we're going to run out of time, but there's the biggest way of doing this. The field notes really about distilling information. I think you talked about this and this and this. I'm showing that I heard you, right?

14:28But I'm also actually crystallizing it for myself, and probably for you, right? If there's a review happening here, and it's more powerful if I come back, I think later, and say, I've been thinking about what you said. Wow. Like how often does that happen? Like if the other part is, because when we say, okay, this is common sense, not common practice. Well, even less common practice for a leader to come back to a team member and say, I've been thinking about that thing that you mentioned the other day. And you're like, this is amazing, right? Yes. And so when that happens, that's even deeper. And then more importantly is, what do you do with that information? If I heard you in a conversation, and I came back to you and I said, I'm thinking about that idea. And then I come in on Monday and I say, I think we're going to test out this new project based on what she said last week, right? All of a sudden, things have opened up very wide in the power of this behavior, right? Now, I was saying that on the side, and then I totally forgot what the original point I was going

15:30to make 45 seconds ago. So, it'll come back to me in a second. Right. It will before we end, but we're almost the time, time anyway. But let me start. No, I'm sorry I wasn't listening to your subconscious. Like if I could listen both to your words and your subconscious at the same time. And subconscious. Good enough to say, this is what you meant. Oh, I know what I was going to say. I have a friend. I have a friend who's a doctor, a cardiologist, sort of semi-retired. And he's a very bright guy, has memorized volumes of poetry. He's a great conversationist. He's interested in everybody and everything. And maybe it's the decades of just talking to patients, but not all doctors are like this. But I can imagine him in the office where somebody says, I'm feeling this, or this is happening, and he goes, what do you mean by that? Tell me more about that. When did that happen, right? So whenever you're talking to him, and it can even be about a thing

16:30where you think he knows probably more than you do. And you say, did you see that article about that? And he goes, no, what did it say? And then you tell me, he goes, wait, what were they saying about that? And then you tell him, and then he goes, that would be amazing if that were true. What do you think about that? He goes like three levels down, and then you go like, I must be the most interesting person in the world, because he seems to be like wrapped attention on what I'm talking about. Now maybe he just developed that over time as a way of getting patients to really disclose what's really going on. But we should all be a little more like that. And I think that the more that you are, the more that people just sort of share what they're really feeling, what they're really thinking, they feel heard, they have a better view of you, right? And then everybody gets better. And getting better is the point of admired there. Yeah, I had a college friend who was like that. And it's kind of amazing how just that behavior is what was behind like me wanting to spend a lot of time with him. Yeah, right. He became more attractive because of the way

17:32that he listened to me. So he demanded both inspiration and loyalty in a way out of this one behavior that like none of my other college friends commit, and he wasn't trying to demand loyalty. He wasn't trying to inspire. But this is the byproducts of that behavior. And it was, it's true. It's powerful. We should do it more often. And I imagine that that guy is still like that. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I'm sure he is. Yeah. Right. So that's, I think the thing we can all take from this. Great field note. And you could take a quick pass. I didn't be like, yeah, I got it. But if you actually sat with it for a few minutes and really thought about, well, how do I react to people like this in my life? And how often do I actually demonstrate that beyond just even the service level of like, oh, yeah, right? Or, yeah, tell me more, right? If you take it to the next level and the next level, pretty soon you go from being a pretty good leader to a very good leader to an almost exceptionally, like we're moving up in the real layers of what leadership communication looks like.

18:32Right. Okay. Well, great. Thank you for this conversation. We will talk again tomorrow. All right. See you, Mikey. Bye now.