Kyle Sandilands' $100m legal fight

0:00Ready and this is the daily off. This is the daily off. This is the daily off. Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to the daily off. It's Monday the 30th of March. I'm Emma Gillespie. I'm Zara Sidler. How did an argument about astrology lead to Australia's biggest radio show being cancelled and now a 100 million dollar lawsuit? That is the question that we're going to attempt to unpack for today's deep dive. We'll take you inside the legal showdown between broadcast to ARN and the highest paid man in Australian media history, Kyle Sandlands. Em, we have been following this story since that astrology tiff first kicked off. Yep. I love an astrology tiff as much as the next person does, but that's not the focus of this podcast. We're going to talk about what's happened with Carl Sandlands, what that lawsuit is. For anyone,

1:04perhaps not in Sydney, not someone who is an active radio listener, can you just run through very quickly? Who are the main characters here that we need to know about? Yes. So we're talking about the Kyle and Jackie O's show today. This is Australia's biggest commercial radio program ever. Was was Australia's biggest commercial radio program ever on kiss FM hosted by Kyle Sandlands and Jackie Henderson, aka Jackie O. Now as a duo, they presented together for 25 years. Ten of those years were part of kiss FM with this show. Prior to that, they were on today FM with Southern Cross Osterio, but as much as they have been a ratings juggernaut, they have also been incredibly controversial. If you don't know them from the radio, you certainly know them from the headlines they've made over the decades that they've been on air. We could spend a whole podcast talking about the controversies embroiling them. But in November 2023, importantly to this story, Kyle and Jackie O signed a 10-year contract, reportedly worth $200 million, $100 million each over 10 years.

2:07Also known as the biggest contract in Australian entertainment history. So television radio, you name it, no one's ever been paid that much in Australia. And that's why I think there is so much interest in what has unfolded since because there is so much money on the line here. Yes. And you know, perhaps that is why Kyle Sandlands is pushing forward in the way that he is. I corrected you before when you said they were the biggest radio stars. That's because now they're not on air. You alluded to it before and we've covered this all in a pod just very quickly though. What actually went wrong between the two? So on the 20th of February, Kyle and Jackie had a seven-minute fight live on air. It basically kicked off after Jackie was looking up former Prince Andrews astrology chart. Kyle chastised her accuser of being off with the fairies every segment. He said every time you've spoken, you don't even know what's going on. It was a tough lesson, but it wasn't hugely unusual in terms of the kind of rhetoric that you might be used to hearing on that program.

3:08And after that broadcast, Jackie said that she was taking some time off. Kyle continued your broadcast for about six days, but that's the fight. The seven minutes really at the heart of all of this. And I also should have mentioned that Kiss FM, the station that they're on, that's owned by a company called ARN, the Australian Radio Network. That broadcaster owns about 60 radio stations across the country and they're a big player in this too. And so the Carl and Jackie O's show came to an end after this tiff over Jackie being off with a fairies while searching it. It's just the most insane sentence to say out loud. Searching up Prince Andrews astrology. And that was the thing that ended this partnership. Well, not immediately. So as I mentioned, Jackie took that leave, but then ARN announced the show was being taken off air. This was a kind of shock ASX statement. ARN is a public company. So these kinds of updates are shared publicly on the ASX. Jackie said, according to ARN, that she could no longer work with Kyle. And so ARN said the show was done. Basically, it flagged that Kyle

4:13had made a serious breach of his contract with his comments about Jackie that there was serious misconduct there. Kyle was suspended on the day that that statement was dropped. That was the third of March. He was issued a formal breach notice two weeks later. His contract was terminated. That termination is now at the center of this legal battle. Okay, I want to get to the legal battle. But first, let's hear a quick note from today's sponsor. So just before the break, we were talking about the fact that Kyle's contract was terminated. Can I just quickly clarify? Jackie's was not, right? Jackie's contract was terminated. This is clarified. Yeah, thanks for asking. So Jackie's contract was terminated the day that breach notice was issued by ARN. So the day that we learned that Jackie apparently no longer wanted to work with Kyle that the show was being taken off air is also the day we now know that her contract was terminated. ARN said it had offered her the possibility of another show on the network. Jackie has denied that she quit. She's

5:15denied resigning and is reportedly pursuing her own legal action. So Jackie's statements following that ARN news really contradict what we got in that ASX statement. And there is a lot of doubt cast over who said what who decided what when and whose decision ultimately it was for the show to be no more. And so on Friday, we saw these photos and videos of cast and lands are going into court. And that was because he has sued ARN and there is now a lawsuit that is unfolding. Talk me through what exactly Kyle is claiming and what he is trying to prove happened here. Yeah, so just over a week ago, Kyle, Sandelands and his lawyers filed proceedings in the federal court. Now the argument, the core argument here is that ARN had no valid grounds to terminate his contract and that what happened on the 20th of February that off with the fairies fight was not serious misconduct. So that's Kyle's argument. His team is also arguing that the fight that he had on air

6:16was completely consistent with the kind of conversation style tone of the show that ARN recognizes and celebrates them for having or celebrated them for having and that the contract itself had explicitly acknowledged this robust irreverent and at times confrontational style of conversation between the pair. Yeah, I've found this so interesting. Kyle's essentially saying you liked it when we had tiffs and fights and arguments and now you're turning around and saying, oh, but this one, that was the line. That's kind of the basis of his argument. And they have had previous fights on air. Much bigger ones. Much bigger ones where Kyle has taken himself off air for a few days and had a break. It's not that unusual to see this kind of thing play out. There's an important timeline at the heart of this legal argument, too, that I wanted to walk you through, which is when ARN issued the breach notice on the 3rd of March, it gave Kyle 14 days to fix the issue. So it said, you have breached your contract with your comments to Jackie. You have 14 days to remedy the situation. But we didn't know what that meant.

7:21Exactly. We didn't know what that meant. We do know in Kyle's words that he was directed not to contact Jackie, not to contact anyone at ARN without prior written consent. It's like a hard way to remedy a situation. That's what his lawyers are saying. So Kyle's contract was terminated at 12.03 AM on the 18th of March. That's 14 days and three minutes after the notice was issued according to court documents. Sandalance team, exactly as you've articulated there, Zara is arguing that ARN required him to fix the situation, terminated Jackie's contract, making it impossible to resolve things. And basically the question is, how can you be fired for failing to fix something that the other party made unfixable? So his team's arguing he had to resolve an issue, but he couldn't actually resolve it because of the instructions in place. And also because Jackie's contract was already terminated, what was that affixed? The show was already over as we know it. And so these are allegations that Kyle Sandalance and his legal team have put forward. Presumably ARN

8:24will fight these accusations and provide evidence in this case. Have we heard publicly from them since this all went down? Yeah. ARN disputes all the claims being brought by Kyle Sandalance he claims that the termination breached Australian consumer law, ARN has rejected that. It intends to defend the proceedings. Kyle, when he was in front of the federal court on Friday last week, made some comments about how much he really wants to get back to work, that he just wants to sort this out and get back to doing what he loves. He made some comments about, you know, I've got bills to pay, I've got mortgages, we need to get this sorted. ARN interestingly has pretty much rejected that sentiment. ARN's barrister, Tom Blackburn, SC told the court, quote, we don't accept the central premise that Mr Sandalance goodwill and notoriety is dramatically wasting away for every day he's not on air. If Kyle is pushing to go back to kiss, Blackburn said the chances were quote, vanishingly small. Okay, we are not mincing words there, are we? So battle lines have been drawn, which is what Kyle's legal team said in court.

9:28So Kyle is asking to be put back on air, I guess, in a bit of a roundabout way. He's saying that he wants to be back at work. Is that the only thing that he is pushing for in these legal proceedings? Or I'm going to assume that there is a monetary something that is being requested. Ding, ding, ding. It's very much about the money. Yeah. Basically, Kyle wants the termination of his contract declared invalid. That would reinstate the $100 million original contract. So under those agreements of the original contract, under those terms, he would be owed about $80 million in a payout for the duration of the rest of his contract. 18 million. If that contract is declared to be upheld, then he would be owed that money plus he is seeking damages as well for the whole saga and the way that it's been handled by ARN. Kyle appeared at the federal court, he told reporters, he just wants to get back to work. But as we know, there's so much more to it than just that. I mean, at least in the short term, it doesn't appear that he's going to be back on air, nor will Jackie. Yeah. At least what we're going off publicly. Well, not on kiss FM.

10:32Not on kiss FM. So what is happening in its place? I remember, was it Smolsey surgery? Smolsey? Yeah. Okay, Smolsey was on air. Is that what's happening now long term? So there's been a rotating roster. He got $100 million. That's my biggest question. I'm sure Smolsey wishes he was getting $100 million. There's actually been a fill-in roster since the show was pulled. Last week, Mike E. Michael Etheridge, a radio personality from ARN was doing the breakfast slot on kiss. Sometimes we see radio networks do that as bit of auditioning to kind of see who might do well with the audience in that time slot. But there really is no clear long-term plan. For ARN, the impacts are bigger than just the popularity of this show. Its share price has fallen to an all-time low of 29 cents. It was about 37 cents a share the day of the Fed 20 incident before that incident went to air. And since ARN issued those 10-year contracts to Kyle and Jackie O, its share price has dipped around 64%.

11:33So there is a bigger conversation here about radio, legacy media, the popularity of traditional radio. Can I just jump in here? Has there been a ratings result that's been handed down since they left? Yes, we did get a recent survey results. So radio ratings are called surveys. We get them. You can tell how often I look at radio results. But I call them radio results. We get surveys a few times a year. I'm not 100% sure. It's not like TV ratings that we get basically every day except for over summer. According to the last survey results, Kyle and Jackie O maintained their number one spot, their long running tenure as the number one breakfast show in Sydney. They dipped a little bit, but not to second by any means. They have failed to gain traction in Melbourne and Brisbane. So a couple of years ago, the show expanded nationally from just Sydney to Melbourne and Brisbane. That was quite a controversial move by ARN. It's yet to pay off in terms of the ratings. So now there's no show either. Exactly. But that feeds into the conversation we were having about the share price as well and the bigger headaches for ARN.

12:35So there hasn't been a survey since they went off air? No. Okay. That will be interesting. Yeah. That'll be coming up soon. Now, that's one of the things that we'll be keeping an eye on. Presumably, this story's not going away. What else should listeners be looking out for? I think we should be looking out for how Jackie responds to all of this apart from an earlier statement where she said that she didn't resign, she didn't quit, that she was seeking some legal advice. We don't really know where she falls in all of this now. So TBC on Jackie's next moves. But ARN has also said that it's considering whether to make a cross claim against Kyle for his prior conduct towards Jackie. Now, in the event of that lawsuit, Jackie would be brought in. She would have to be involved in some way and would have to testify. So there's that to watch out for. The key question for the current lawsuit that the court will really have to analyze is whether or not there was serious misconduct did ARN make it possible for Kyle to comply with its request

13:37to remedy the situation? We will find out more in April, Justice Angus Stewart has directed parties to file more documents for the evidence before the matter returns to court. So we'll talk to you in April, I guess. I think I'm really interested to see what evidence Kyle's team put forward about the fact that ARN or he alleges that ARN wanted him to be controversial and that they rewarded that. I'm interested in that and how he can prove that and if there's anything in writing to that effect because that will be interesting. It's fascinating. And in terms of the future of the radio industry, we've never had anyone like Kyle and Jackie, I love them or hate them. I will be watching closely personally and professionally to see how the industry has a whole bounce is back from this. Yeah and thank you so much. Thank you Zaro. And thank you for joining us for this episode of The Daily Oz. We'll be back later today with the headlines but until then, have a great day. My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arranda Bunjelang Kalkadun woman from Gadigal Country.

14:39The Daily Oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadigal people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander nations. We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.