Kill Team: How Annoying Is Your Team? Tier List - Featuring Dan 'The 4th Butter Boy' Barton

0:00Welcome to Kill Team Casules, a podcast all about Kill Team filmed in three different time zones by three different gents. Hello and welcome to the Kill Team Casules as I brought us in and missed the button I was trying to click, click the one next to it had to fix it. But we are officially here, the Kill Team Casules joined once again by the very, very well spoken, and I strongly opinionated Ben from Battle Brothers, tabletop welcome. Well spoken, that is surely a story. I was going to say, having me on my own podcast, passing it over to Russ from GFN Gaming, the penis awareness. Yeah, I know. You got well spoken and I got is wearing a hat, but I tell you that you got the beanieest awareness, okay? The he heard about well spoken. I love it. Well, we've got another guest that is also donning a hat. But the fall then, I'm going to say hello to Reese because he hasn't been said hello to and I can tell from our look in his eyes, he was about to cry.

1:00Welcome to Reese from Threes to wound. Thank you. I needed that. I really this week. Yeah. You know, I spent half week. I really needed to be introduced on a run show. Jesus, I mean, it was 40 minutes of you crying in the green room, but here we are. We made it. It was a lot. It was a lot. But speaking of, yeah, hats for us, you have already been outdone as you mentioned. We're joined by guest. Of course he sings. He wears those fancy hats. He beats Russ thoroughly at kill team. And he's in fact the legendary missing fourth butter boy. It's Dan Barton. Welcome to the show. Where's that? Always. What's going to be the first thing I'm going to say nailed it. Yeah. Yeah. You've been planning it. I'm going to see. You've been getting my hands right now, by the way. You're getting absolutely hat mark right now by Dan. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I feel like you know what? You're going to. You're near. I can't keep. I can't compete with the Jumiracwai hat over there. It's gone.

2:00It didn't. You know, that's it. I mean, there's always a bigger fish. Now that I'm wearing two Jumiracwai hats, I got to find him. Then next week, we've got the man with two hats coming on the podcast just to make us feel better. Yeah. Just yeah. I like it. A big hello to everyone in the chat already jumping in as well. Dr. Zero hours in there. We've got some old Matt tabletop warm master screeches got us on while he's driving Richard Worry princess Cuffman's crow. A lot of all our favorites jumping in Joe Cale's jumping in up. Thanks so much for joining us. We always love having everyone alive in the chat. I said it's a special episode because obviously we've got Dan, which is fantastic. We did need to bring him in for our experts. He's because we had a little bit of a deal this today that there was much debate in the green room as to what kind of tealist we actually wanted to do because we're alive. I still don't know. No, get what it's a mystery. It's a really street. It's a real. It's a street. The mystery tealist. There was two trains of thought because there was we've been talking a little bit about for a

3:00while about making the most annoying tealist. The teams that are just that when they rock up on the other side of the table, you're like, oh, not these guys. I can't do it. It's going to be an annoying game. Regardless of who's playing him, this is not going to be fun. But then Ben, you had a big idea for a tealist last week as well. Take us to for those that missed it. Take us to your idea. Okay. Well, yeah, I'm still unsure which one we're doing today, but I, I was like, I had an idea for a true tier list where there's only two. That's true. And it's it's good and bad because everyone's lying to you. Okay. There is, of course, there is, there is including ourselves. Yeah. Including us. There's obviously a spectrum, but I think if you like a reduced kill team where you boil it and you reduce it, you let it simmer for a long time and you reduce it down to just it's most bare, necessary elements. And you say, hey, which teams are good? Which teams? Do you are you trying to go undefeated? Play these teams. Are you not? Leave all these sucker teams, you know, alone. So that's an idea that I have at some point.

4:01And maybe we're doing it today. I don't know. Find out. Also, we have a lovely little piece of tech chat going on. They're saying that Dan's mic is three times louder than the rest of us. I think it's going to be. It's because he's at least three times better than us. Yeah. So that's how it's made. This was an intentional choice. Yeah. Don't think anything that happens on here is an intentional. Those tech tips we have every week, that's intentional. Yeah. They're all meant to happen. Well, thank you to Mabase as well, who has just subscribed. It's been a month. And he just says, can't believe you didn't invite him on anyone, assessing with him with him is of questionable character. Well, we are a show of questionable characters. You've got an Australian on our show. What do you think we were trying to fool? This is coming from the guy who's recently joined my team. So I'm just saying that. Wow. I think that's what she said. Or I'll be kicking you out.

5:01That's for sure. I'm the talent for the mid or questionable character. Yeah. Oh, geez. Well, or I'll be questionable character. Have you met him? The reason we had the indecision with the tier list is because we were talking about if there's the teams that you can, you know, win with or lose with it. There is the A and B tier lists that Ben said. And Dan did in form us that you can just win with any team. And then he said, well, I'm in a good state, which is very important. My idea was bad. Yeah. He said, hey, Ben, boy, it's an idea. And I don't want to do it. And we were like, you know, I find it. Because I'm not here. Well, I think the youngest players that can't make those long range, stabilize bulk shells work. Okay. Like it's not that hard. Point them, shoot them. Just do all your free-fall damage and blow anything away. Like, guys, come on. We talk about. Why in the world didn't play this team? Yeah, exactly. It's really coming out. Get it together. I think I actually do like the idea, though, too.

6:02I think the more, most annoying is kind of good because one is what I've set us up for. So that's what we're doing now. And two, I think that's probably going to be the most fun. Because I, one thing I do like about this is the antico-dotal nature of, there's also just personal grudges within that kind of tier list, too, that we're all going to have a story of why we hate a particular team or who hurt you with which team. So we'll jump in because we still have a lot of teams. We won't do declassified because obviously for an official tier list, you don't do a team that's got to be tournament legal to make a tier list, right? That's how it works. Oh, I don't know. I really do want to talk about how much a hate path I understand. Oh, I get. I think I'll be grandfather. I've been really caused everyone hates pathfiles. Special guest requests for bringing them back in. We'll bring them. We'll bring them in. Or else, I'd dare just quickly, I mean, obviously before we dive too far into the tier list,

7:05for those who might be new to the world of kill team, apart from your two epic stashes with Russ, how do you fit into the world of kill team? How long have you played? Tell us a little bit about your kill team journey. We'd love to know. Normally, I hop on the train or if it's close by a drive. No, I've been playing the game for a good four years. Pretty much this number of 2022 where my dad had been playing for about a year. And then he invited me to come along with him. And I was like, absolutely, let's do it. I'll have been the go-to ever since. I'm sad to say. He's the first team that wears the generic one hat. I like it. Yeah. I learned the game with Imperial Navy breaches. I honestly think they're a great team to do that with because they're like a board team, which in some sense being outactivated feels a lot less unfair for a new player like that's fine.

8:05And then, like, breaching clear is a fun thing, but the team's still simple and they're not doing anything too crazy. So I would recommend learning the game with breaches. Blatham for a good year. One, a golden ticket at the right old age of 16. And I couldn't go to worlds because they were like, you don't have a hair into a guardian. My dad was like, I'm not going along to watch you. And I was like, fair enough. There's only one winner in the fairness family here. It's me, son. Yeah. No, it was caught a bit late by the, I was like, hey, you know, it's like next month. There's an idling problem from being 18. I'm like, you're under 18. It's not well-guarded secret guys. Come on. Yeah. I'm 20 now, as I say, four years, but, yeah. And then I, I want a few more tournaments messed about with this and that team, Gellip Hawks,

9:07still play breaches for a while. And then this edition, I saw a lot more success with the introduction of Killop. Was still playing my breaches and then they received a load of nurse and they removed the extract if they got. I was like, well, I'll stop this. I'm going to play a walk cover instead and be an absolute villain. That wasn't absolutely villain. You won't want to be well-chose. And one of those, and you played an iron attack. Oh, you are fun. I want a team as a level. This is the 12-inch pizza plate of God, I hate that team. Make a full seek again. Yeah, no. I played a fair bit of higher attack. They're an evil team. They've always been able to do something evil or it's 15-inch alpha strike with the flying leader or double dash reposition, nine-inch commas device teleport. It's still for evil now, but like, they're around these parts.

10:09We say that Necrons are for bad people. Necrons are for bad people. Yeah. I do. I don't know if you villain ox with the Necrons. That's for sure. I think one day what I bet you're ultimately able to say. Oh, yeah, dude, absolutely. Oh, that's because I'm a bad, I guess I'm a bad person. But the, I just, you, it's, it's, it's my faith, face-off analogy, dude, where eventually you, you, you chase the monster so long that you eventually become the monster. And, uh, you know, you become what you hated the most in order to destroy it. So at some point you got to play higher tech and smash your friends, dude. I can kick some popies as well. Yeah, that's a requirement of playing higher tech. Yeah. Here's your models and here's your book. You know, popies and just head on into the tournament. Yeah. That's about it. I hope I'm on the internet because it's going to. It's going very messy. I love them to refer to the nano mind as the bubble of fun. But my opponent doesn't seem to share my birth for some reason. Oh, that bubble of fun was 12.

11:09It wasn't like a 13 inch because it was six inch either side and it's hey. Yeah. Yeah. Well, like the wolf store was. It's like the last addition. It was, uh, it was six and then it would slow down moves and dashes. And this is before moves. The four to play into like launch challenges with the four inch move. It's like, yeah, you can move three inches. So you say that. Uh, we have one of our listeners, Dr. Zero hour, he was one of my locals. And I was playing higher tech into launch salvagers. And we played again that night and I hit his deployment with the bubble. And later that night, he traded in that team to the shop. Like, yeah, everything this team again. So I would just show us. Show us on the day where the Corona man to touch the kind of thing. Everywhere. Everywhere. He's in the chat now never recovered. The never recovered. I think you can. Yeah. It's like, so why do you think less people are playing kill team in the Florida region? Well, there was, if you look at this graph, there was a spark during Ben and the higher tech.

12:13Ben's higher tech. I think he only watches the show because he's made like this voodoo doll of you Ben. And he keeps stabbing it during the, it's just hoping you react. Just be like that guy. Yeah. I'm still in my back. Yeah. I love it. I love it. I love it. Yeah. I said, well, look, and you've had, you've had two world, world staged appearances. So just as many as our very own Ben. Um, so that's, I mean, don't, don't see that. Yeah. I mean, I can give Ben any props. I guess I'm probably as good as Dan. The data won't reflect it, but I probably, I mean, I have to agree with you, Reese. I mean, speaking, that is effectively what we said. Yeah. Don't look too much deeper into the data, but just trust me. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll have to watch these days anyway. Like I won the world championships and the PC singles last year, but this year, second and

13:14both falling off now. The wheels are washed. The wheels are washed. He's done. He's done. He's done. I'm set to that. Yeah. It's a 20 year or 20 years old. The injuries are catching up, you know, slow and down. Well, I mean, contact. Did you back when you were top to be on the podcast, but you were like, I'm not a casual guy. And then obviously now with your full, your full, you're mad as you're like, I guess I'm casual now. I guess I'm casual. Second, second in the world. That's where the team players go for die. Basically, not as the guilty, Greg, yeah, to join the game. Yeah. If you're on the show, you know, it's bottomed out. I love it. That's how we know we're every week. That's how we notes things are gone. Right. It checks out. It does check out. Oh, I was about saying the judge. This is a funny comment. I was really trying to get you out of the game.

14:18We didn't need that whole routine of licking the tears off the faces. For the rings. That's what I did that. I did also sunset as a, Lord the rings champion for a moment as well, and yeah. That was great. Yeah. It was absolutely my villain. I'm very fondly. Very fondly. And everyone should have a villain out. Yeah. That'd be same. He's gonna fall back and say. Well, speaking of villains, let's jump into the tier list. because otherwise like all good things that we do will never finish this. So we're going to start because I'm going to say it's roughly alphabetical order. I just kind of threw them in. So don't quote me on that. I mean, G. Dubs doesn't even do their business. Exactly. So yes, that's fantastic. Yeah. That's exactly how I'm about to play. Exactly. That's what you scroll through that. Angels of death. That's who we've got. Any early opinions, I'm taking them this coming weekend to a tournament because I wanted to smooth brain it. But since doing that, I've now had my team selection bullied. I didn't think it could be possible with a team like this, but I have been thoroughly bullied by my ghosts over the models I chose and I didn't have built in the team. Thought I was being smart taking just models I'd already kitbashed.

15:22No, no, no, there's rules. And I was doing them wrong, apparently. Yeah, just for the record, he had zero assault interceptors. One, one. What? He's got a chance to be a English valid in this. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was constructed bullying at least. I thought Dan was going to come on a tape. My son and Dan straight away. You would just say, yep, you're a bit of an idiot on that one. There was no support. Sorry, did they all about the reposition that was you? So I thought the chain swords just there to smirk people in the face if they get, if they charge you. Yeah. I need a need the bottom. You have a, you know, a plain toast, a bunch of you playing games and death. They're like, you know, you. I, I, there's no flavor within within this choice. This choice was purely because I was like of the mindset of my, I had no prep. I haven't had a game in ages. I just needed turn up. And this was the team that would enable me to turn up and at least get some rules

16:23correct. So in some ways, that means that means they're not too annoying because kind of everybody knows what they do, right? With angels of death or is that, is that make them boring? And therefore annoying to play? I was going to say if they're just, you know, this is vanilla, then they go B. But the fact that everybody knows what they do. Yeah. Maybe they're in C. Does that put them in C? What do we think? I think we need to clarify the tier. Yeah. Are we doing S a B C? Yeah. So currently, I've been, but we probably do need to name them after Jason Mahmour in some description. Obviously. But can I say like S tier is the most annoying. Yeah. S is super annoying. We are. Merino. What a clever. I think these guys might be D, D close to the bottom then because like I say, everyone knows the rules. It's an elite team that's, I don't know, I'm always happy if I see angels of death. And no matter what I'm running, if I see angel dead, I think I'm always pretty happy with what they do. Yeah. I'm a little bit better than

17:29matchup against me. So I think, God, I got to, I got to beat another angel of death team against it. Okay. Yeah. Maybe they go up one because if you're playing one angel of death, I don't think I've ever just played one angel of death. Yeah. Like one cockroaches do. Yeah. They do just, they hold together sheep or cockroaches in mass on mass. Well, that's why angel of death players bunch more. You're not seeing. So you probably are seeing quite soon. But yeah. Three game consecutive games. I see a fair news point. A super fair call out in the chat to screech just said finally maybe Reese won't time out of the tournament this weekend. Incorrect. I can still do it. I can still do it. I can still do it. But you watch me. You watch me. I will say I'm voting for C. See? Yeah. Intercession squad were really that right. Like you had one grenadier and one serge and

18:29then like four chainsaw guys. Whereas at least this edition, they have a heavy ball to their snipe, but they have a captain. They are a lot cooler than they used to be. And I think I think I do as much as they are the bread and butter team. They are an interesting bread and butter. At least they have some. They are. You know, at least they have some building. They've got model selection. They've got interesting rules selection being able to choose like, you know, the chapter tactics and all that. So I still think they are they are can back a little bit to like, you know, then you have legionaries running around and that little bit more list building. So I still think there. I think I think you see for myself personally. Yeah. I was going to say because I feel like if you got an opponent, you play every week and they have one team and it's angels of death, you can have four or five different games. Yeah. Whereas if they just bring the same team that's, I don't know, another team, you pretty much aren't getting that you're getting the same operatives and the same stuff. So I think for that file, for that sense, the

19:31most annoying they are of the least one of the least. So see, you lose the point because there's so God down many of them. Yeah. But that's about it. All right. Next up, a new one. I think this is I think yes, the battle Clyde, I can sing and see these ones potentially. Oh, oh, I don't know. I think it's the great straight up to the S tier, dude. I just want to know the thing. What's the thing? As soon as they don't like you can't let them all know. Yeah. Okay. Would they show somebody in my face? I have to kill them right there. I don't actually. Yeah. That's. That was the most annoying. Yeah. That's got to give them some credit. They go. The most annoying thing. Yeah. There's something to be said about the fact that like there's really not many people playing battle collage. That's the thing. Like being an extra team gives you some points. Yeah. I've got a personal

20:37scars because I've got a friend who does play this team and he's very handy with you. So when you do play them in their hands of a good player, they are so annoying because, you know, because they just, but they play that offbeat type of game. It's not the typical, you know, going to move this. This is going to do. So they've got that back and forth potential. They've got hidden melters, things like that. So especially if you don't know them, this can be a team that can really, really ruin your day quick, quick, hard for sure. If you've never played into them before, this is one of the most annoying teams. Yeah. Because then you, because then the person is like, do you know the team very well? And you're like, never heard of them. It's like, well, you're going to have to act when I act. No, if you leave anyone out there, everyone can then do something else. You'd be like, oh, that is annoying. That's, I mean, no one's as annoying as the hall of queens used to be. But easy guy is quite annoying in terms of, but they do have some, some toxic mechanics. Yeah. Like the fact, you know, once they're on engage, you have one activation to add to

21:39them before they flip back to conceal with the counteracts really annoying. Yeah. Yeah. Take no archaeologist pinballing all over the place. You kind of think. And he's got a decent gun. Like that's not. It's crazy. Yes. It's a good gun. Is that one you kind of sleep on an old game? Because he's kind of just lurking at the back. And then at the end of the game, he just steps out and smokes to do like, oh, you had that left. I can't Jesus. How many more? So no, one inch area of the fact is way more annoying than two inch because you can remember two inch. The one catch is you. There's lots of the threats at the two inch. So you get so good. You're like, oh, all the blasts, God, man. That's when you, that's when I get you at that key moment. Yeah. Four cricks. You take 12 more. Yeah. So that is you saying S. You say that I was going to say I'm in the rest. I if not S. So after the after the change, I think certainly a just because they make you have to like think in a different way. Also, if this if you've never played this team,

22:39this is an S. This is an S tier four OS. If you maybe eight tier all over, yeah, I'm okay with a. But yeah, I mean, like as you say, never played them into them before ass team because it's just so annoying and it will be. If you show them and play them for the first time, you will three game watchlist. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those ones. It's like, yeah, annoying tactics. I didn't have a brief stint with this team where I managed to move them all up on top of the vantage against against two melee teams, like I managed to crown 10 models on top of two advantages so that he couldn't squeeze any models on that. If you want to mention being annoying, he then proceeded to round to about how overpowered battle played are and how this is totally insurmountable tech for me, late teams. So. Well, next week we're going to do a annoying opponent, opponent tier. I think why which kind

23:40of player. Yeah. There's a lot of people specifically. Yeah. Obviously. Yeah. I've been having back there. If you want. Yeah. Yeah. Spicy S tier. I hate this guy. It's clear. 100%. I hate it. I hate it more than anyone. Oh, dude. There's something about like the five fight boys mostly. Sure. Double shoot, double fight. I have that one switch guy's thing, which comes up once in a blue. Yeah, but that's a death. But then it's like, Oh, now I see up that I can't show us the dire engine more anymore. That's a band sheet, which I don't want to do. Yeah. That's rude. But also just having, having 15 faction rules that you're supposed to remember and content on the same team. Just hard. And this is all sound like yes to me boys. You were scoffing at it at first. Yes. Yes. Yeah. They're not. They are annoying. The blades of kind of just one of those teams that they live up to like what the law expectations of L. And being tricky and naughty and doing your head in they epitomize that. And it's

24:45very thematic. But it's yeah, they do definitely seem to just when you think you know what's happening, they've got something else that just upsets your apple cart for sure. So you're supposed to be like a glass column, but you're telling me I charge you and then you'll prepare me just to scratch and block my regals. Get out of here. Give me any give me the justice track. Oh, yeah. Oh, it's here. It's here. It's right. Yeah. Straight away. There are there are this sneaky. Just a scratch. Yeah. And another in city of sneaky team. It's the brood brothers up next. They made up up and about right up the tippy to play. A couple of nerfs. Obviously, the the Vegas got a bit of a whack on the nose with their their APL ability. But definitely a team that again, because it's also a thing of the context of if you're what level of player, if you've never played them before, they can be hard to play against. Once you know their tricks, but they've been very powerful

25:48for a long time. They do have annoying tricks. I guess would be annoying. The the the in between activation dash and the shooting through someone else's eyes. I can imagine being like really, really annoying to somebody who doesn't know. And it must be. Yeah. Well, the insidious Dassen, the pervasive pervasive. Yeah. I can see that I mean, I love them. I love playing as them. But I do. It's a whole team. So you get the activations, but you do also have the big, the big juicy guy as well. If you want to have a big MLA speech, I don't know. I feel like they probably are quite annoying on they. You know, I feel like the most annoying part of the team was that mega stun. Yeah. So yeah. And that's gone. Well, it's not annoying. It needs to be a target now. Yeah. It definitely brings the power. Yeah. That is an annoyance down. You know, I think that is another valid point. Any just a scratch and the anything that's just I see you, I do something is annoying. Like that. I think that has to have a valid, a valid criterion in

26:53this list. So yeah, I think they, they might have to be between B and A just for that alone. Although it has been nerfed. So maybe, yeah, maybe it's not so bad anymore. But I haven't just a scratch. They don't have a just scratch now. Oh, right. If they did. Oh, they do. They do have an operative that has a just a scratch. Oh, yeah. The agitated. It does have a, yeah. And it's once per round as well. So once per turning point. So you tend to go for which is, I mean, it's kind of annoying. I think the steam and Belgium. Be for Belgium. I play this to you. Be for Belgium. I play this team in Belgium. I, I don't know. Like I managed to poison the guys and do some mean things with poisonous me asthma. So I managed to take two of his operatives off the board. Like before they got value. But yeah, I don't find a team that annoying. Like again, the Vegas was a bit rough. But instead of someone's there reminding you about those two gotchas in city and she to the ice teams fine. I think. Yeah, they do have gotchas. But anything that's

27:57a shooting kind of team hits on fours, got a five up save and maybe like seven wounds. I don't think they can be too annoying. Yeah. Like they do die. They've got the shoot on death through the banner. I think that's kind of annoying. That's kind of annoying. That's kind of a thing. They do have some trick. I would not just be annoying to say they're at like the bottom of A or top of B. I think. I would go B. Yeah. I mean, it's from the mountain. Yeah, that seems fair. That seems fair. Guess we can revisit them later if absolutely. Just a quick one big shout out to Papa Kraken. Now subscribe for 37 months straight. What's up? The boss Papa Kraken. He said boys are made of that hosting a club day at the same time. So I appreciate you joining us even though you're in the trenches over there as well. So thank you so much, Legend. We you also will be hired at some point as a butter boy. No doubt. All right. He's one of the sexy crab

28:58people. Surely sexy crab like that man. I just know you fit in. He fit right in. I'm sorry. All right. Next up we've got the conoptic. I've got a feeling I know where I want to put these ones. I've been known to play this team since I played them at Worlds, but come on, S tier. This team is horrid. There's like the if you look at the strategy employees, right? Sure. You've got the reroll ones. Even like reroll saves. They do not need that. And then sold train. You got the slow down ploy, which is horrendous. They have just a scratch, which again, the team does not need. And then the highest wound models in the game with one of the most powerful guns in the game. You know, the real tomato like. Yeah. If you can't, you'll probably need that much. And the most recent thing they had to give them an FAQ that says, hey, you can't

30:02banish Nemesis operatives. If people were doing that, I think this means this team is like, that's plus. Yeah. If you can have players trying to show up for fun night in our banishing Nemesis operatives. You need to go into the event and they like. Yeah. And you need to get a bit of adrenaline. I think it's I think too. Not only is it like as Dan listed, they've got so many things that they probably don't need the made of a noise, but it's also the play style is a very particular. And that's fine. We want to have different teams, different play styles. But I don't know, how did you find piloting it? Dan, did you feel like it was very like mono-dimensional? It was like, this is the way you play them. There's this setup and then that just kind of wins you the game. So back when I played them, they had a lot more offensive agency because the little dudes were high damage and the the crawlers were 21 wins. So I did my normal thing of like the way I play the game is to try and take my opponents models off the board and then win on points after that.

31:03And the team does not do that anymore at all. They rely on their ridiculous, expendable operatives and incredible durability and just APL presence on the board to just don't like two objectives, play retrieval and play a clip cut camera, you know, sitting in the corner and watching, which thumbs down, not fair. Not interactive really isn't it? So if I feel it's not very interactive way of playing the game, I think that's got to be one of the criteria for most annoying team lists as well, which obviously we're going to come against some of those teams that are even less interactive than kinetic, but still running thing for me. I did not enjoy teams that do that. I was just like, I'm not sound. All right, can optic very easy to slot into the S here there. We've got a Celestian insidience, a newer sort of team seeing quite like probably not heaps of numbers of play, but they they're a team that can do some work like weirdly, I think they're probably not as popular as maybe they should be because they've got some got some good stuff. So I do have a thing that's annoying

32:07about this team. And unless I think it's a great team, but I think playing if you have to play this team, be prepared for one of the busiest boards. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, that's okay. This team requires is quite an I spy for X-ray PL the ceaseless. Yeah, a lot of that weird thing that gives me the sword thing. I got rathed anyway, like I'm there's too many tokens and that is another criterion surely for annoying because when most of the board is tokens, that is a bit annoying. Yeah, I think that's a huge mark against you token management over a balance is token team. Yeah, token team is that hurts you a lot. Yeah, I don't know. I think they're generally not very annoying. I think they're pretty, the most annoying thing to me is like when I kill them and somebody heals, that pisses me off. So like that that's some points, but generally I think they're not that annoying, but that one really pisses me off. Yeah. And I guess what if there's not too many

33:11psychic heavy teams, if you're a psychic team, they've got a lot of anti, but it doesn't. Yeah, that would suck. If you were a psychic team, like you know, actually, that's a good point. They have a rule that effectively nullifies a team if it's a psychic team. Yeah, but that would not be terribly horrible. You know, I play them with him as this claw here the day. And I was like, Oh, damn, I don't believe my banner guy at home, that sucks. Yes. Yeah, so is the the major is psychic. Oh no, so is the primark, another primark. Patriarch. Patriarch. Patriarch. That's the idea. He's psychic as well. Yeah, he's got the mind control. He's got the he does. I wrote in a professor X. Yeah, yeah. I wrote the play marine wizard again, so because I was like, I'm just going to use him as a heal for the medic, which worked out, right? But I don't know, so that's the things I feel like should be more annoying, because it's like

34:14they have that silly justice scratch, which nobody can stand. It's like come on sixes. You just roll and hope for the best to come on that. And then they have exigences as well, what I'm dying from, it doesn't dash. That seems like a massive pain if you forget about it. Strike on death. They got the, they have a lot of different things that are really annoying mechanics, but just fair play to an unknown that's playing that team. Like firstly, they're a hitster pick. And again, I feel like you get points for that. Yeah, secondly, they're hard to make work, you know, I feel like anybody who rocks up with Celestians and does well with them. I'm like props to you. You're playing a hard team and playing them well. Yeah, I'm not annoyed with it. Someone's bringing them. I'm not like, oh, shit, so like that's still a fun-ish game. I think you know, it's probably these two. It's really like women. That's wrestling's biggest family. That's it. So straight to Esfer us.

35:17Pete them. Pete them. Gun him down. So do we think maybe bit an annoyed? Because I mean, I know Malay teams may not like them. They do have, as you touched on some of the survivability stuff can make them quite annoying to lock up and get quick-killed, and easy kills. So maybe she is a little bit more powerful than the ballboard. So you're, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, a, see, see, see, see you the other side of the ball. More annoying than, than the space marines. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess so. We can't complain too much because this is a nice, yeah. Yeah. All right. Next. I'm sorry, go. Just quickly compared to Navitiates. I like playing Navitiates, but that team is some, some wants bad. Yeah, they get that, are you shooting me? Now you're pistol. Yeah, you know what? That straight task here. I hate you. I'm T. Re-roll token, half-doubge, heel after everything. If you shoot them on with, maybe, do you know the best thing is seeing someone who's taken Navitiates, get the mirror match in

36:18in the Vitiates and then face, because I saw that at a tournament. Someone went not Navitiates, and it's like, but you brought Navitiates, he's like, yeah, I know. Yeah. But that team takes it out of medicine. Yeah. Exactly. And I was like, this is what you deserve. That's what you deserve. Yeah. Chaos Colts is up next. So another interesting team with quite a unique sort of play style, lots of models mutating, powering up with dominating up the top tables very recently, or at least there was a lot of good. They're a good team. Are they annoying though? I feel like these days, they're not very annoying. It's a way to work. Like the spring into thinking the extra mutation they can do is a bit of a gochua. Oh, yeah. Now I'm winged and I just leap over a stronghold. So that's a pain. They haven't just this scratch. They have the ability to place down the token that damages you. So as you say, they get points for that. They have the... You're fighting me. That's a... Yeah. I have to get that Mr. President.

37:21Yeah, I get that Mr. President annoying. And they have the... I can ask him to talk to you about these days and the leader, the Dash or Charge and Fight is also a bit of a gochua. Generally though, teams okay. Yeah, again, I'm just happy. That's it. That's it. That's I feel they're fun. That's it. I don't... We're not five-seed them across the table. I'm like, yeah, it's not going to be an easy game, but I'm not like, oh, not like, not these guys. I don't give that dread. It's just more like this is going to be interesting. It's going to be tough, but that's... There's very different feelings to, oh, this is not going to be... This is not going to be a fun game. I'm not going to do it this. There's something about mutation that's a really epic mechanic. The whole build of their monsters. The same where it's just turning these guys into huge monsters and then flinging them at. He was really funny. Yeah, I don't know. I do like that. Yeah. And then I also, wherever I... If I match up against them, I know in my heart, like, oh, no matter what happens, I'm going to kill a lot of them. I'm going to brutalize a lot of... Yeah, that feels nice. He's more... I have to go smash them down. Yeah, I'm going to kill a bunch of you.

38:25Well, a lot of the teams... You missed the time. And the top are also the teams that the annoying thing is the teams that when you should kill them, that they don't die. That's one of the most painful mechanics within the game, isn't it? Rather... The rather gematine. Yeah, yeah, like that's it. It's like, I should get it in a box. Oh, that's... That's a... That's the injury aura, Lisa. Yeah, good point. That is pretty annoying. Yeah. Yeah, that is annoying. And accurate in me. Like, maybe bottom of B, because like, they're a little bit... Yeah, right. But they don't bother me at all, honestly. Even if I'm doing some 20 nonsense where they're like, you know, the stuff they can do is with the base sizes, so because they change base sizes, because they have to go to the closest possible point. You can use it to like hop through a door over a barricade if you have guides, so that the closest possible point is over the barricade. Yeah. That's still kind of funny to me. I don't know. There's something about it. Yeah, I want you to take over the barricade and then charge it. It's pretty funny. I love what we've all talked about. It's more like when the cows call to... Like, are you a little scamp? Look at you doing that. But the other team is like,

39:29how do you... I still need you to be able to do that. Yeah, that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not adorable. And like, these days, like, if you want to spend $250 to build a community, God. Yeah. You deserve to... Yeah, you know, good on you. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's an investment right there. The red branch in the chat just joined in with you, exactly. Props to anyone fielding the cults for this year for a natural outlet. All right. Bottom of B. We'll pop them in. We'll keep going through. That's good. Damn. The death watch. Interesting. They can have annoying stuff. They can't... Because the delay is pretty annoying. They can do it almost. The delay is very annoying. There's only D6. Yeah. Please make your E3 plus 1 or D3 plus 2. Yeah. It's crazy when it pops off. And into me, every time I've ever played them, it's like 5 or 6. Yeah. It's brutal. Like, it's... You can try this at one plus that goes. Yeah, it's crazy. And each opponent is a nightmare to deal with. They heal after fighting. They can all, you know,

40:34onlylings and no years. He's a genius. He's a genius. Yeah. That's Taylor to you as well. Obviously, they've got one of those teams that does have... With the operative and team selection, means that they can be made to... I built to make it painful as well. Like, they need shooting. They can be shooting. They need lots of close combat. What type of close combat? They're very versatile. It's just the five operatives obviously makes you feel a little bit better. Because when you do kill them, you're like, you haven't got me in my left. Yeah. I do feel like flip-order double counteract feels pretty dishonest as well. Like, is it... Oh, you didn't expose a model for that. You're on conceal and then decided to do two things. So there was something about the EGIS being in smoke and on conceal that is a pain in the ass. You're like, well, I can only get them two of in and shoot this monster with one thing that's not going to work. Or I can leave you to hold the middle objective and your band. And the band. Yeah, exactly. I feel they're quite annoying because it's not that...

41:38Yeah, yeah. They're really going to lose. I find that they're annoying. Because you're like, you know the work around for a lot of this stuff, but it doesn't mean it's easy to do. Like, and with the roles don't go your way, your day can become pretty unpleasant. I can't match. So the last one. I was like, oh, I think I'm about like, again, all the skull. Oh yeah, you can open the door. That's it. Yeah, the skull. Yeah, I should be. But how are they doing the actions? As we talk about them, I'm feeling like I look smart. Like, man, I think I need to play Deathwatch as far as that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, they are an annoying team. I think I'll feel them. And be a more... I'm like, oh, yeah, that's rude. I'm just going to call up Doctor Zero Hour and see if he wants another game. Yeah, get him round to the shop. Yeah. Yeah, that's only about the plasma gun that just grinds my gears as well. Well, he's just going to find the ice. He's your special at the lane job. Yeah, yeah. And you can add a beer to make it even better.

42:43Fix the damage reduction. I know there was... Yeah, that's... That's not pretty rubbish. Normal certainly. Because you could just do the down tap. Wasn't it where you had to straddle with the line? That's what it was. Yeah, I'm glad they fit. Because if that was still in place, straight up there, to be honest, because that is annoying as hell. Yeah, I'm feeling... I don't think bottom of that. I think they are annoying. I don't... I don't... But they have... I see the moment. That's average. Yeah. I support them in terms of the vision of them, of being all these different specialists and then any skill expression. I like that idea. But... Oh, the blade... It's on the back room. Yeah, blade... The blade guys are pretty demoralizing. Yeah. And they head on to the beach. Strangely. Yeah. You know what? They're actually... Hold on. Are they bottom of the... That's a cheer. The more we talk, they're like, every operative. Because you think they'll be more annoying teams. For sure.

43:43Sure. But there's something to be said that every operative has sort of a really unfair thing going on. For all the superpower. They've got an interrupt as well. There's something to be said. They haven't interrupt. That doesn't look like gone guard. Can't... Well... I'm already done twice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This has got double guard. That's kind of annoying. I know what that's all I'm saying. Like, they... They take into whatever you kind of don't want them to do. You know, there's teams that guard will be so brutal. Yeah. They're going to like a double guard. Like... Double-charren-oing, bro. Like, they... The pop into ignore obscuring as well with a firefight point. Yeah. There's no range on that. There's no setup required. It's like, oh, this shot would be obscured. It's actually not. Yeah. It's just going to be so... Yeah, it's just like a number of things. You can have the operative to do it for free. I see the battle is just in the zone. Yeah. This is an annoying team. I think I'm a cheer number. I think I'm on cheer number. Oh, unfair abilities alone. I don't think that it's greater than the sum of his parts. But I think on the cheer number of unfair things,

44:46maybe it's an honorable S tier mention. Just who has this many? Ten million with of annoying. Oh, yeah. I think he's even easier to tell. So, to zero out is like lack of re-rolls. This is going to be addressed. Lack of re-rolls does not make a team less annoying. It makes them more annoying. Because you either... With the role, and then I feel bad, but I'm like, well, you're playing this team that doesn't have re-rolls. Or you just roll really well. What the hell? You're supposed to with one of these at some point. Yeah. And you know what? That's... That poor stuff, not the alien. I'm always playing as an honest team when I go up against them. And that's really, really aggravating. It's like, oh, that's nice. I'm playing one of the teams that you get the real-imp, the six-fuck-y-f-reliant-less events. Well, good for you. You got this match up, I guess. That is annoying. That is annoying to be like, well, congratulations. You now get this role because of a choice that I made. I'm like outside of the gays. Yeah, that's an annoying team. I want to let your match in. And you get things. Yeah. Let's go low S and see what it's up. We'll slide a mish.

45:46They can always... That's above them. Slide back. Because that is annoying. All right. Next up, we've got the space cups. That's a good thing. Exactly. The exact one. The space cups. They've got to be the bottom of everything. Actually, you know what? They do have a annoying stuff, but... Yeah, they have a lot of shield guys. Would be annoying if you were a MAT team. That would be a good question. Oh, god, yeah. Double parry. The phosphatine... You play... Phosphatine. Again, being a EU team. Like just playing... Like Goalmongers or something into them. Or Falgors or whatever it's going to be. And you're like, oh, oh great, I've got this match up. The team that's like incredibly well equipped to deal with me, like, guys. Yeah. Again, that's... The perfect... That sucks. But I think... They're also the darlings though. Everyone has it weirdly. Has it seems to have a bit of a soft spot for them? Like, everyone's coming. Yeah. Yeah. People are exactly like good on you. Good on you. They have to choice. Yeah. So... They are interested in like... They're defensive, but they're seeking and security.

46:48So... They're defensive in a way that's still interactive. And I think that's really cool. Because it's not that they're going to run into your half and shoot pieces. But it's also not that they're going to stay at the back of the board. They are just cool. I'm like... I'm like... Yeah, that's what I'm... It seems like... It seems like they rock up. I'm not... Oh, no. I'm like, oh, interesting. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's an odd place that... Because it feels like they don't almost... They don't almost want to attack. They want to wait for you to attack them in combat. They want to be charged. And then... They're obviously shooting the combat. They can shoot in the combat. I mean, arguably that is annoying. That is... I mean, that is arguably an annoying thing that can happen. They can do the full range instead of two inch engagement range for shooting. Oh, that sucks. That's... It gets around you. Super concealed. Yeah. The fact that that happens is ridiculous. And the Super concealed themes are going to know that. Either. Yes. It's like they play the most points. Oh, so I know it says all other rules. But actually, my one takes priority still. So... I think that is quite annoying. If we're doing the TLS,

47:50they can double parry and fight first. And they've got a way to get past the... Always concealed guys with... Yeah, shooting in the combat. They've come back. Yeah, two points on the all the annoying TLS. Interrupting shooting. Yeah, they have to go for... To shoot back. Yeah, that is annoying as well. All of a sudden... Have any of you guys ever lost to them? Because I've never lost a game to them. Not yet. Yeah, that's fun. That's fun. Okay. Yes, like... There's an image to you. Yeah, so I've played them many times. I've never lost to exactions. But that's not the question. I'm not sure. Yeah, that's cool. All those things are annoying. But do they translate? Do they actually translate to losing games? Yeah. Honestly, I'm looking at the ones that I've seen here. I'm like... I legit think they are less annoying than all of the teams I can see on the list. So I would actually even go so far as to be like detailed. They have some annoying stuff. Somehow, I don't feel that bothered by them.

48:52I think if they all hit... Like, if they were all just a bit better, maybe that would be like... All their shotguns were like hitting on twos or something. Then this is the most annoying team in the world. But because they're not that mean, maybe that's how it works. They've done it well. They've got annoying stuff. They're still human operatives. They give some of the parts. Yeah, there's still ways around. Like, they do it. They do it. No way to get 3 APL. Yeah. They're stuck with 2 APL. Sorry. They worse than angels. More annoying or less annoying than angels of death. Because I think with what Dan's saying here is they're going to be below that. Like, are we in that sea to de-territor for these guys? They've got annoying things. We listed a few. We're saying no way to get 3 APL. Don't they... Are they locked at 2 APL? Don't they have... No, they have a comp. I don't know if you have a comp. What do they have a comp? Yeah, he's full range. He's a... Don't comp guys, like holding out. So it's a... Yeah, it's a... You know they have a compy sky. So I think the reason why...

49:54I think the reason why they're like not annoying for me is that they also feel like incredibly... punishing to play ass. Because if you make a mistake, you're in a really bad shape. And they're like inquisition in that way. But they don't have any other nonsense that make inquisition annoying. Except the forward gender I think. So I think there's something about seeing them instead of inquisition. You know, I just feel a lot more happy to... To see them on the table. I'm thinking C or D on these guys. Yeah, I'm going to have to go look. I always like them. Let's make it the first D for now. Which is... Yeah. And again, we'll slide this... D for dread. D for dread. Now a controversial choice here. It's some dinosaurs. The newest team on the block. We need to take personal feelings out of here and go. If we see them across the table... In the middle of the night. I simply can't see him possible. I mean, if I see him on the gets a table, I would almost walk away.

50:55So I have to be an S. I would be like, oh, fuck off. I'm the girl. I'm the girl. There's... I think that's interesting thing. Straight out of the gate. One of the comparisons, direct comparisons we can make here is that we talked about the counter mess before with the Celestine incidents. These guys will have a lot of tokens. A lot of counters on the board. Straight out the gate. Yeah. Nice to count how many inches you have moved. Yeah. Ah. Ah. That's not dead. Yeah, you played... You say, I think, earlier, that you have played these guys a little bit or you're thinking about getting into them? That my main right now. Yeah, I've got about 10 games in with them. Possibly more. Probably more. But I really love them, actually. I saw the rules and was a bit disappointed. They robbed me of having like six elves and then like one dinosaur that you could switch out. Yeah. Which would be amazing.

51:55Yeah. Very cool. But you know what? I do really enjoy them for what they do and there are a nice aggressive team. They don't play that like sit at the back of the board. They're going to run at you. They're going to be in your face. And I really enjoy that play style. However, he was horrid. Man, like... Firstly, having to explain to your opponent a different set of rules. And they do everything different. And it's like, sorry, what? That I've not played against his team before. I'm like, oh, good luck. You know, it's probably the end of it for you then. But like, you have a slowdown mechanic on the wizard who also chips damage off you. That wayels of the world is absolutely heinous. Something about healing as well. That's just a bit of aggravating. Always annoying. Yeah, I feel like that. Maybe a consummate S tier. In my book, I don't know, just the pivoting and the oval bases. And like, I know, it's definitely the cool.

52:57I think it's got to be S tier. Maybe they'll play by the rules. Yeah, I think they'll perhaps top the best tier. Are they more annoying than Kenoptek? To me, I say yes. Yes. And now it's subjective. But I think the real argument's going to be all they more annoying than ravages. But we'll have to see when we get there. I don't think they're more annoying than Kenoptek, in my opinion, because I think they're more fun. But like, because they play the game at least in an interactive way right now. They play a different game, but they did it play. Yeah. I think I mean, I have to pre-horrent. Because having not played against them yet, it's, it's, it's my personal vibes. So I'm happy to, you know, to go with Dan, Dan on this one, because I think as the person who has piloted and seen the most games in. In his opponent's eyes, I'm happy to go just below Kenoptek, because I know for myself, Kenoptek right now, I think is my least favorite. So I'm happy. I'm happy with them to remain on top for now.

53:58Also in terms of not waking up stat check, like a 24 wound, three up save thing with a power saw that parries first and just sprints into your face. Like, it's got a route to turn one. Because they have that much rhythm. It's hot of the best tier. It's hot of the best tier. Don't even mess about it. I was trying to be a synaptic. All right, moving on. They're done. Fastalkers. One of my team is near and dear to my heart. I do love the fastalkers, but they, they, to me, feel a little bit like the old RBD's, the exacting squad that they're tricky, but there's a level of love and honesty about them too. That it feels balanced. Yeah, but actually the same. Hoaches, bro. They have that long-term alert, which is a bit painful. He's annoying. They have to fight for it. They have to modify this. Are they, is the player shooting from the quills or are they not shooting from the quills? Yeah, they already clarified this. They can absolutely shoot from the quill. If you're in a tournament, people, and you're taking

54:58crude, you can shoot from the quills efficiently. Dan, they're all about Dan bro. He's up in the green room that, that, you know, his house rule or club rule is that the units are the correct. The UK tournament, so you have introduced a rule. Yeah. If you're shooting with a model set, it has to be from the skull. Have a, this power gamer, which way I appear. Yeah, he's still alive to me. This nerd right here has worked out his crude skull collection. Apparently they have quills, so it's fair game to him. So, watch out. If you're playing this nerd and he starts shooting you from his crude quills, you think you're safe. Well, it's like ST here. It's what we're saying. ST for the crude. The fast awkward. I don't know. They are lucky as well. Like there's something about them. And the fact they are at least to my mind, a bit pants in terms of actual damage out. But yeah, so the fact that a game plan is basically, I'm going to try and grab as many points as possible before I get tabled.

56:01Yeah. It's like, I'm on board with that. Because then I'm going to try and try and lean into it and tell you what you're going to see if you can get enough points before that happens. Yeah, I feel like we had covenant that happens between the team. The two players. Yeah, it's like them. It feels they're annoying. This seems balanced out with, as you just said down, the fact that they are very killable. Their damage output isn't impressive. They have ways to deal it out, but it's not impressive. Overall, you're never like, well, you can do what? Their survivability is not crazy. There's a lot of cover, like you know, Shenanigans. Both, same. And put five up saves. Yeah, I think they're down with the exaction. I know it's weird because on paper, you've got all the DC teams. But I don't, it feels weirdly, I can say it, honest, tricky. I don't know. Like, you know what you're doing. It's like two things they do, they're very well known. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just don't know what the crew do. It's like, I'll poke you.

57:02And if the other guys are real dickhead, they'll shoot you from the quills. But yeah, of that. I think that's more player. I think that's how to play his choice right there. I feel like yeah. Yeah. UK scene. Are they above all stuff? They're all stuck. Like Ross. The exaction. Above all below exaction. Do we reckon? I feel like even below. Yeah. They have less annoying stuff than exaction. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. All right. Moving on to a team, I think that's going to be him significantly higher on the list for annoying. Is the Felgore ravages? I mean, anything that doesn't die is going to be an Est here from the get go straight down. That's just straight. I don't know where an Est here, but it's got to be there. No. I don't know. I'm just too angry. I didn't know this team have a came out. Still hate them. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, they've been attained the struggle. What do you have? Friends. For sure. Like the frenzy touches the changes. The wound changes. Operatives. The obviously had the recent change to the gong. So it doesn't ignore peace.

58:02Yeah. So that was annoying as hell. Yeah. Where they, yeah, they've been so annoying. I think this team a few months ago would have been comfortably riding high on the top. When they first launched Est here. Yeah. Um, where the annoyance. And I think they're still, I think they're still our Est here. They have a question for you. Can you remember what their firefight employees are? Because I have them, I have them in my head right now. But I'm thinking that all annoying gotchas. So. Yeah. Extra inch. Yeah. Extra inch movement. Uh, yeah. I'm trying to think off top of my head. I played them for. I should know this. I have to get out of here. Yeah. They have the double act. Oh, yeah. Double act of it. Yeah. The charge off. Yeah. Kill an opponent. And then you can. Oh, yeah. And the charge off you kill. Yeah. Charge on my. Oh, yeah. Listen, entire team is bullshit. Yeah. These guys have got to be higher than exact. And no, exact. Yeah. Higher than exact. Definitely higher than exact. That's my secret. That's my hot take. And no, but I think they might be higher than Kennapp Dick.

59:06Blades of talent. I think it's. Yeah. And then that's one is strike for extra damage with crit. If you're trying to map it out. And then. Yeah, there you go. Hopefully that's how it. But not only are there entire firefight employees all gotchas. Their operatives are inherently. He's telling the pop as well. Yeah, it's like. Tell you how my god. All got special rules. And. Yeah, go for it. Then. Oh, and the entire team's mechanic is broken and unfixable. Like the the only way this team will be balanced is once they are declassified. When did they come down? There's no way to get it right. My suggestion for them was that you make you make friends. You only happen if they're ready. Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, because if they're expended the tide, the don't hang with any more. They're ready to tuck it out ready for that. Yeah. But also like you should from a game sense point of view. It's supposed to get them into melee and then they've gotten their value.

1:00:09And to prevent you from just wiping them off the board and then they don't get the value. But like if they're ready, don't move them to a point and expend them where you're a pinable run up and kill them. Yeah. And the mechanic is still still great. Yeah, still. So if you're getting your charges off, but doesn't pun, but also doesn't encounter you, I'm going to put them out there and if you don't, yeah, you shoot them, they're just going to get you anyway kind of odd. That would to me make that mechanic feel a lot more fair. But they don't do that. So killing spend it guy. That's what he's still alive for next turn. It's a bit of a pain. All that being said, this is one of my favorite teams of all time. All of you said, I love them so much. I love playing them. Apart from fantastic. I played quite a bit of the ball. Great. Super great to be annoying with. Ben is picking his next team from that. And whenever it finishes top of S tier, he spends new team. That's what you decided. Yeah, I played them. I was hoping for them to like be really aggressive like go among us.

1:01:11Yeah. But I kind of found out the optimal strategy with them was to throw crack grenades at people and then hug them, which I found immensely hard and did not like. Yeah, I had that game. So that's what I wasn't doing. I was just trying to get the game as as star striiders. And yeah, they didn't. I don't think they want attacked me in combat. They just charged me and hugged me. And I was like, this is such a crap game. Like good for them. But this is just not fun playing a game that never resolves. Like I found that annoying. And then I had it because everywhere at the time, I played them three times in two days. And I was like, oh, you know what? To hell with this matchup. Yeah. And they did the same thing. I was prepared for it the second and third time. But I was like, okay, this is the way it's going to play. Yeah. Close to the top of current S. It's like waiting through molasses is what it's like having to play. Yeah. It's just like they suck all your APL.

1:02:11It's like when you're in a dream and you have to fight and you're like throwing the biggest punches in the world, that's what it's like playing against this team. It's like, I can't do anything. Yeah. I played Fellgirls in Brighton one time and I said only a cartoonishly evil guy would play them. So I rocked up in a cave in the top half of her type. And I said, you know what? I'm feeling the cartoonishly evil. I'm going to go tie down onto some train tracks after this. Like, perfect. Perfect. So I reckon by the sense of this for me, I'm thinking, piecing what we're saying, between conoptic and blades of Kane in the ST or we're going after blades and just before death watch. I think as annoying as switching your rerolls off, I don't think so. Yeah. I think we're going to be able to just follow blades. These are Kane or Elbs and that's worse. So I say they go behind that. Yeah, they get positive. They get a lot of crime. Yeah. Although you can, you're not shooting a lot, but you can obviously,

1:03:13according to Dan, and confirmed, shoot from your horns. So just remember that people. I can shoot from your weekly part of the scale. Yes, official. So just and hooves, if you've got a toe out, you can shoot from the toe because it counts. Just saying. So I'm going to kill team casuals or cast and they start recommending everybody draw from ridiculous parts that had to shoot people. That's that's that's you guys are a menace. Sir. We're bringing a line of sight. The dinos. Let's go back to the dinos. Oh, good. You like you shoot from the top. That's so funny. The fact that I have to like people or or you can spit. You can spit the venom from the the wizard head. That's so funny as well. Right. I think that's a spell or something. And that's when they say that's part of rules riding. You just go. We're definitely better than that. We're definitely. We can do better. You guys know it's so funny. Oh, I was I'm again. If you're very hilarious,

1:04:14but a new team hilarious. If you're like against it, I hate you and everyone you've ever known. I'm going to shoot you. I'm going to do a gun barrel out the mouth. Yeah. Just. I mean, shoot you. How can you see me that? No, the dinosaur can. So you know, it's a hell of a show. He's laying your position to the dude up top. He's like exactly. That guy around the corner. You can't see him. Trust me, you shoot through this wall. You're going to hit him dead on. Amazing. Breaking breaking bad thing. It's like, hi, hello. Where is he boy? Another from the Felgos, another melee, minutes, the goal mongers. Risk blades. I mean, if I would just put it in the heels down. I played the Belgium skill annoying. You're in a great spot right now in teams. Yeah, those buffs like for real, the fact that in Pailer and the risk chains, weft practically every match is, is I feel like the reason behind all of my losses.

1:05:15So those buffs look tasty, man. Yeah. They're interesting. They were dinosaurs in the game, but love the whole. Interesting. The double sort of charge for the warrior type operative. That change to stuff, I guess, the everyone cannonballing, only being to the one, one's per turning point. I think it is now with that the following. Oh, it's changed. That's changed slightly. But yeah, I just said it was a net worth of all positives. The healing is insane. The blood tanks seem to always give you what you need when you need. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff. Where do we think? A bit token heavy as well. That can be, yes. That's kind of annoying. Not as much as the audience. So they are like Felgos, but aggressive. And for that, I enjoy them a lot more. Like they do actually chop your head in when they mash your head and chop you up when they get into the lake with you, which is a lot more fun to me.

1:06:15But the healings a bit of the pain. They do have a couple of annoying things. Gory Totem, Blocchi, Rory Rolls, all that. It feels like the most fair way to do that. They have an inch movement. It's an eight inch move on the blood you do. It's done. Yeah. I wish you wouldn't have liked that. They have a charge at the start of the turn. They have flip-order to counteract all of that one. Somehow feels pretty fair. Yeah. Teams just get it. It feels a bit more fair. Am I wrong that I feel like the access to the blood therefore their ability, like I'm not saying they shouldn't have access to it. But does it feel like the blood can be very easy to like a bit easy sometimes to get? I feel like there maybe should be a little caveat at times to how, especially when you can do is at the go, what's the token that you can just drop and then just pick it up. The body could have a look at that. The body could have a, that just seems way too easy that the operative you need. I don't know. They still don't get full blood for killing a total wound guy. It's a bit strange. Yeah.

1:07:15I don't like that. They don't have more blood. It's something. Yeah. Yeah. It should make it significantly more blood. Yeah. I'm going to do more damage. That could be the best option. Our mentions. Eight damage and shooting. That's annoying. If you're a shooting team and that's all you've got, that's annoying. And this is like a team, they are a skew team. That mechanic is like out there with frenzy in terms of quite how aggravating it is. It's like, well, lucky I'm building this. I assault into this as I guys. Hi. Am I right? My shooting angels are there. I feel like they're landing in B for me. They have annoying things. I feel like it doesn't translate to, as toxic, in my opinion. I don't know. Maybe it's subjective, but I just, I don't feel like those things translate to be quite assault crushing. My personal. There's something about the... God, Dan, you get that. The bad matchup they have with poison mechanics as well. Like the fact that specifically those mechanics

1:08:17work really well into those eight wounds, I think is absolutely bullshit because it's like, well, I'm not one of the teams to live those. Or it really sucks to play Asgore Muggism. Be like, oh, lovely. You have a specific mechanic which counters my faction mechanic really hard. So that's not good. It's, I don't have that. I've got that annoying one where they can not die. Heal back up to position to not die again. Yeah. That's annoying. That, I mean, there's nothing worse than that. If you shoot a model as your last activation or whatever it is, or try and shoot it to get rid of it, take it down to five wounds, you know, oh, in fact, I can finally kill it. And then it heals up past the, and you're just like, well, you know, that work for nothing. That is annoying. Yes. I'm feeling low. Low A. As I've been hurt by them before. So I've got a personal, you know, like then dead. Like a person that S for me, but I know that's not reason. Yeah. It's just my, my fears. I know that's bad. I could, I could get behind an S.

1:09:17Reese, if we want to, if we want to push it past these guys, I can get behind an S. No, maybe A. I think it's, they're probably just an A for me, I think. I think because there is a level of honesty that, that Dan said that they do just want to charge. They just want to fight. You know that that's one thing I'm going to do. A lot of their shenanigans is then once they get into that range, or you try to hold them up. That's where the, the annoying start is hard to get out of that range, though, because they've got operatives that can pull you into their range. And they can get for a CP extra range. And they're already pretty dang ranger. Yeah. So we get, that means that extra movement. Yeah, they get the extra inch. Well, yeah, they seem to have a lot of access to blood as well. So it does seem like they're going to get it. So yeah, I don't know. It doesn't feel like a problem to me. But, Rinsakorn is stacking. Fuck off. So I've got them currently below battle clay, or above battle clay. That's probably the last, this last decision for these guys below battle clay. Yeah, I think there are a bit more honest in a lot more ways than battle clay.

1:10:18Like they're still playing the white fundamental league. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I feel playing your first game into Gormongers versus battle clay. I think you're having a better time with Gormongers. Yes. Yeah, for sure. Battle clay games more annoying. The very diminutive rattlings are up next. And interesting to him, I haven't seen, I must admit, I played them all in. One, two, three. Very annoying. I don't think I've got no. No, so rattlings rattlings are up next. So I don't, this one is definitely jumped out of Audis, I apologize. But they're sticky. They just scurried up at the, they stuck in there. Oh, you got your own. You got your own. Yeah, yeah, just terrible. If you're, if you're, yeah, if you've got no way to deal with that, the fact that they can be always secure shooting the combat, sorry, not always secure, always hidden shooting the combat. I know it's only once, but still, they've got a whole bunch of extra equipment. So you might be. Totally. 10 minutes in set up. Yeah, tokens galore. Yeah, you got the annoying thing if you've got to forgive a lot of line of

1:11:21psychs. So you're like, can you see him? And you're like, oh, I'm just kind of assumed I can. It's like, well, check. Cause, because you can't. Sure, but they'll actually see me. We have Scarper. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, God, Scarper as well. So every 10 seconds someone's like, oh, shit, I've got, I've got a dash. So right. Yeah, you know what? These guys are just for that alone. It would be quite high, right? What? Got it. Yeah, you. I was going to say that one of those interesting teams, like, are they fun to play? Like, that's the thing too. Like, they don't seem like they're annoying. They don't need that. That's like, I wouldn't want to pile. I've never read their rules. Yeah. This is the team for me. And again, it feels like that rule explanation for your opponents because there are so many inherent gotchas. Just seems like they've got to be up up around the the tipy top for sure. I was looking at playing this team when they came out. I wanted to do a lizard's men proxy for like, you know,

1:12:22story links for the ball, you know, it skinks for the rat legs and so on. For the ball, Grins. My go with exodites got the agronon lenses if I could match the silhouettes. But like, I gave them a go and I was like, I found a team way too defensive. Now that container is gone, the team has a lot more interesting in my opinion. What was contained? That was the tack off that you scored points based on your opponent. You remember that. You remember how we didn't always have the set we have now, right? Yeah, I don't. Remember when people were planting beacons and how annoying that was? People are still planting beacons, are they not? It's like concretely. It's like, concretely. Ross, come on man. Bro, who are you playing? If the plant beacons slug them like, us is still getting beacons. People are always planting beacons. Beacons are the big 26th player. Like, you know, well,

1:13:23you know, I have a dog that you can squish, which is really good for. If you have any kind of like chip damage, we can't, like with the GMATs to crush or the whales or the well, or something, or if you got a mind which, it's being able to deal that forward, forward chip damage and squish it is really funny. Anytime there's a dog on the table, I call my sharp from the beginning. I tell my opponent, I'm going to kill you. It's there. Yeah, Dr. Zero has called me out of that chat. Dr. Zero has called me out of that chat. I'm going to tell you that dog. There's nothing you can do about it. Especially if you're an exaction, right? Like, oh, yeah. So we think, I want to bring it back to a great example. You made up. I only went to him about the exactions squad. Do you fear the ratlings? Because is there annoyance lead to you? I do. I do. Yeah, like, to that point on two-world, I think, oh god, dang it, dude. This is going to suck. Yeah. Because I think I have to play Ninja Warrior. To try and jump across all of that. Anyway, not since they're going to put down. Any time I've ever played them,

1:14:23I've been running teams that really don't want to have to climb over paracades in barbed wire. Like, so it's always been painful. So to me, I think this team is clearly an a for me. I don't know if you guys want to push into it, but it's clearly a in my opinion. Okay, I'm happy to go a. I find them very interesting. A lot of frustrating mechanics. Yeah. That poach, they're like the only annoying part from the crew. They have halted over and is even more egregious. Yeah. It's like a doing control range. Question for a little shuffle here. Deathwatch. If these guys are top of A, is Deathwatch still S or should Deathwatch maybe be coming down to A just before the ratling? Oh, I would personally find Deathwatch more annoying. I can't go on A. Really? I feel that Lings more annoying. I just find them so uninteresting to play into. I'm just like, oh. I kind of find. They're adorable. Hey, do you think that one's done a cool kit bash? Then I'm like, oh, this is more fun.

1:15:24Because it's such a good team to kit bash. It's got such fuel. But it's just the base ones. I'm just not fine. I'm just not fine. I'll say this. The people who choose to play. The tiny short kings. I think it's a team for those who are pure of heart. And that goes a long way. I think that goes, you don't play them because you're a bad person. You play them because you're pure of heart. And that does a lot of heavy lifting. Yeah, it does help you out a lot. Drops a bit of the annoying factor because you're like it's a player playing it with better intent. Not trying to use the annoying to read that day. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Now back to alphabetical order. I can see one of the world's. I can't bash. I hope it. Yeah. They had a hobbits and an ants like the tree guys. That's a very good one. That's a very good one. Yeah. A good one. Hand of the archons our next one. Again, like I have had some peaks and troughs being up there and all around.

1:16:24But I would say I haven't seen them for a good long while to be honest. I haven't had a four right. I don't have much. Like I would say. Yeah, I'm going to shoot from the shot. I think annoyed by them. I don't think I have one of the only long range seeks left in the game. It might be the only classified one on the dash. They, yeah, that's right. Yes. Like I don't I'm not annoyed by that though. I don't know why. Oh, it's annoying. It's a legit million knowing but it's a bad time. If it ever is, it's like annoyed or if you have like a small health guy. Yeah. Is it running? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those teams like because I know a couple that they've got the close combat operative, you know, a couple like I remember the operative maps on there. But like he's quite surprisingly durable. They can deal. Yeah. Yeah, again, I mean, yeah, I'm just going to run at you. And I love that. I respect that.

1:17:25I respect the game. Yeah, I feel like all the crits are annoying. But like at the same time, that's all they got really like I feel like the crits push them out of D. So in IndyC, but outside of that, I think they're a pretty respectable just crit city team. I can't find too much wrong with them. Can you be honest? Considering their elves, they're not as tricky as we've seen with a lot of the other elf teams. Yeah, they're good elves. Yeah, good elves. They're the good elves. Yeah. The scat. Yeah, the poison grenade. Yeah, poison grenade. It's annoying. That's fair. I'm a lot of it. Yeah. They can reroll the saves as well. They can cease less the saves, but they are actually like a glass cannon elf team. Yeah, they don't have the player, I guess, is kind of a bit more durable. That's a say he has kind of the one outlier in the team that he's if you're not ready for it, oh, he's still there. Oh, okay, and he can do some work. But one up pretty bad of the whole team. Yeah. Yeah. So what are we thinking? See? Yeah, I think see. Yeah, I think see.

1:18:27Yeah, I think see. See, see. See, see. Maybe even need. But. Let's go bottom of Sponemovsie. And we'll move on to the first of the heavier set short kings. It's the you can never remember what they're the half kin. You know the ones. Sousages. The salvages. The salvages. They are annoying. Yeah. Just because they've got I feel like they've just got so much going on. Yeah. Like lots of other interacts with like I like them. They're cool, but like they've got a lot of equipment. They're going to be putting down. They've got that thing where they're like, oh, unless I'm thinking of the other team, where they're like, oh, you go last. They've got interact. They have a jam. They have a jam. That's quite annoying. The general guys surprising too, like in a slow team, then you do have a jet pack. He's not as obviously devastating as he once was, but it's a bit of a lot of trials. He feels. Nucks mash. He feels really irritating at eight inch move. Like. Because that's just come on. Be normal and be set.

1:19:27Like the rest of us. Right. And it does make a difference. That does make it does a game of the measures like this in inches. That it does make a big difference. The Nuck smash for knocking you off things, knocking off objectives. Again, he's hilarious. I'm not like that. I'm straighting. It's like, I love it. So thematic. Like the guy does knuckle dust as you want the thing. But at a key moment, also upsetting. I don't think I'm ever I'd ever be mad at that. No, I just want people don't take it that much. They used to be able to jam you on a punch you in. In a way that they've stopped other octaves from coming through. But now you can move three friendly. It's not. Not really a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Again, that kind of. So tokens. Yeah, lots of tokens comes up a lot. And okay, lots of abilities that are overlapping. They're like tokens. Yeah. That's just. The legend. The team. One of the most important. The team. The team. You are. You're the curb. You're in the end of kill team. And you know it's so true.

1:20:28Yeah. I'm thinking. No, it makes you spend one more for mission actions. It's kind of annoying. Yeah. That is annoying. I'm feeling low B. High C. Like I think they're more annoying than insidious, especially the heads of a guy. Still. Ben wants to be. Ben in every tier list. Is there any dwarf team? Hunter be the middle. Because Ben knows nothing about the dwarf teams at all. And he's just like, I don't know the middle. So I respect that. And we put them in the middle for that reason. I feel like they're I feel like I'm never annoyed by them. I feel like all the other. Yeah. While they have annoying things, not all of these things actually translate to being annoying on the table. I feel like I don't know. Yeah, that feeling. They're all just crappy hits the team. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like it for you. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I can be I can be talked down a bit to. So we think down with the exaction and the fast awkward as they down in that land of.

1:21:29Oh, you think D. No, I'm asking is that Ben's not all the. See is fine. I see. Yeah, we got the Ygg is in a minute. I feel like Ygg is a in some sense, so a less annoying version of salvages. But yeah, that's the leather jackets. All right. So would we say the bottom of sea, we're thinking between the hand of the icon and angels of death? Yeah, I'm less annoyed with them than I am with hand of the archon. Yeah, thank you. I got sure. Yeah. All right. The disciple of Yylindra is quite annoying, I guess. Shattered they're not in B just for you, Ben, but that's okay. We'll move on to the and I think again, I've got a feeling I know where these got team up. You're heading the higher tech, the Necroon Circle jerk. Let's go. They created us here. Just for you. It's annoying asked here. They created this tier. I feel like I mean, talking about it's just a bit now. Oh, I don't know what they look like now. That's a lot of true. But I think the the megic reaction in me is S tier. Yeah. But I don't know what they're like anymore to be fair. Oh, I'm still.

1:22:30Have you guys identified you've played them a while? Yeah, they were they were my name for a while. And like as I said, the team has always been on some nonsense. Like whether it was that nano mind that slowed moose and ashes, which is horrid. Yeah. All the Kronomans are whipping 15 inches across the board and shooting a blast wet that into your drop surge. As Ross can tell you. It's horrible. I remember we sat down and you were like based on this deployment and the fact that you're the blooded. It was like you've lost. You told me you knew about the Alpha Striper. I don't want to tell you. You know, I think I even tried to put a barricade on top of that. It's a stopper and you were like, I can still get it. I was like, fuck. How about now? Yeah. And it did. It worked. It was terrible. Yes. That's true. So where are they now? Yeah. I don't know. As of now, they're not STR. Are they the psychomites at the start of the edition, switched off crits, by the way.

1:23:31Yeah, that was pretty rough. That was awesome. And the Kronomans took his telekines. Yeah, you could have crits. If you were with an agent, if you crits became normal and you couldn't re-roll. Yeah. What? Yeah, it was awesome. Yeah. Right. He was the most egregious mechanic ever was. He's like the grizzly token. He put down. So mission actions costed more, right? Yeah. Yeah. Was that him? Yeah. Because he needed that. Yeah. Why not? Uh, no, that was that was rough. It's now like tilting shields. You could only crit on sixes. But yeah, he used to, he used to be like how it was going. Yeah, still. Well, you're playing against him. How did they arc up? It's like, oh, they can I, yeah. Is she my two, four, lethal five gunner? Yes. You're actually too too buddy. For your re-roll, any of those to get an extra hit. It's everything. A, they, they, they, they, they got to sneak into A just after kill up purely sure. Yeah. Also, the animation is just a horrendous

1:24:33Yeah. I have some mechanics. Like I, I, again, personal gut feeling. And maybe it is the scars of the past. But I still like against I'd, I'd, I'd be more upsetting than the death watch, for instance. Like they are still they're because of the scene is actually here in the one. Yeah, they just have feel bad like, or they have always their mechanics have been, this is going to make you not have a great day. Yeah. They're heritages as well is the worst, but they created the bad person. The sins of the father. Yeah, they are paying for them still justifiably. So I do think we think they just, they, they, they, they, they, they, they made a Necrone team that's not a pain in the ass yet. Not yet. They also they have convoluted rules that used to have that would interact. He used to be able to, uh, you could see the despotek. You could command through them. But then he didn't have to see somebody. So you could play the ignore range employees. If you'd see the despotek, you could just command anyone anywhere on the board with that ploy.

1:25:33Yeah. That's gone now. Yeah. But still. Yeah. So we think it just below conoptic above blades or I think so. I think it seemed about right. Yeah, it feels about right. Yeah. Now, the other short Kings that we touched on earlier, the Yagers, the, the, the, the more kind leather jacket, cool cousin of the cellulators. If you're bringing Yagers, you're probably a pretty cool dude. I mean, I love that. I think it's a pretty, I think it's a pretty, it's a state in shoot like twice a turn, a long range for those stabilized bulk shells. And they get accurate one. Or use that for once like a red. Yeah, change isn't it? That's just, it's just coming. June. Yeah, they're two of June these days. And you know what the devs were thinking with that one, honestly. I mean, that's how I'm doing. D. I feel like this is like, I will de-steer. You know what that? No, no, that annoying. Don't the other dwarfs have this as well where you just you remove, you reduce damage the first time that that is

1:26:35always annoying. Yeah, that's gotta be. Yeah, but the other reason I'm annoying. Did they not have that one? Is it just the Yagers? But the leader hasn't just scratched. Yeah. Yeah, that's just. Just. Does he? I'm gonna say this leader when he first dies, does he still die or does he come back as well? Just say no, he just won. He has the wolf scout leader thing. Or you? I mean, let's be. Shoot when you charge them as well. Yeah, that's annoying. That the mind in the strategic phase, the minds, that's all kind of annoying. Those minds are not, I know. If that's be real, but it's a really nice one as well. Two of them are done too. Your eyes are all 80, which one's real? Yeah. Yes, like, oh, like, like, where are the real minds? Where are they? I should actually be. It's never, it's never been surprised. Yeah. Do you have the thing is, look out of the car. Pymatically, why are they bringing two dead minds? Yeah. Like, I don't understand. Like for the team to be like, so we've got three problem minds and two dead. So we replace them anyway. Sure. Why not? Like, I don't understand how enough,

1:27:36how enough time to dig five holes, nearly what three minds would have been there. That's it. So he's just like, let's just cover them up. So they look clearly like minds. So everyone knows where they are, but we don't, they won't know if they're real or not. You don't have two holes in this trial. At least let just. Someone misguided. All right. So I was saying, I would say, I would say top of D, like, is in the end. They've got some. I have some annoying cap. But it's, I don't think you're ever like, yeah, nothing actually get you. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Again, you're a cute little scound if you play that team. Lovable scamp. There's a level of scamp. The level of def we needed to put that into the. I think a level scamp fight. I think the ratlings was the good call and the level of scams as well. There is a reverse to that, obviously. Yes. The high-rotek planes. Yeah. That's where we're going. We're going to be sure to. Yeah. We're going to that in position. Yeah. You're not shuffling the minds. You're a fool. That's a real ball away. So I quite like to, I quite like to like, you know, there's one channel that

1:28:37not going to come down because of the minds there. So then you can make one of the ones at the back that they'll be like, oh, that one won't be real. You make one of those. No, that's really great. Look on that. Thanks for the trick, those. The mind game. Ah, the Navy breaches. Another interesting team that again have, I don't think they quite get the love they deserve. They've always had some good ability, but they're play styles not for everyone. But it's got, because it's a certain style of play. Is it annoying though? Does it upset us? The guys. Yeah, it goes annoying. Well, yeah, right now the guy skull is. Well, they turned it down. So it's not as ridiculously far. But for sure, if you're playing a whole team, the idea that it would just nick two of your guys would suck. Yes. Yeah, that is just, there's doesn't seem to be any way to avoid it. It's just this will blow up in your backlines. And that felt a bit, I don't know if it's changed. I remember when, when they first came out, they were one of the most annoying teams. The damage reduction of charts.

1:29:38Yeah. And they had the blast. Did they had the blast just blast didn't work? And I know I was playing a team that had the splash. Would only affect the original and I get re-rolls against blast and torrent. That was a shame. Shielding or something like that. That's kind of annoying for taking a team that has some blast like, like blooded, which yeah, you're waiting to deliver that bomb. Yeah. So I did. I don't care about it. I'm only going to watch. No. I feel like there's a, yeah, I did not do with this team currently too. Like someone's bringing them a little bit, a little bit of scamp. Yeah. I'll say here in the states, we never see breaches. Yeah, I can't believe the last one. This team is basically declassified around these parts for some reason. I wish they were more offensive. Like, yeah, as I said, the way I wanted them to be changed was to make the change, close of sorts. And the last addition, if you have two hits, you could change and fail to normal. Now it's a purity seals. So you used to get four hits a lot of time. Now you get three hits a lot of time, which like, which like,

1:30:39again, really leads into the defensive stuff, which is a shame to me, because they made the damage reduction busted again. And especially when your name is Breacher, you would think you would be an or more offensive attacking unit versus being a defensive base. Like, and it gets you the walls and people up. That's it. The thematic lore is that they should be smashing, grabbing the whole time versus setting up and holding. But yeah, are they annoying, Lads? What do we think? Where are we feeling? A bit. I think they're, they're fairly, super honest, but like, the stuff they do that is honest is a bit annoying, because they are a bit of a stat check and the skull is, yeah, fucked up. I got a B-10. B? Yep. All right. What are you just after the cops? Absolutely. A B-10. Yeah, absolutely. All right. All right. A team that I think this team is too honest for kill team. I'm not sure if they're annoying, but the Cassecan, they're an interesting team. Very honest. And they've had, obviously, had a big rework,

1:31:39not the last balance as well. They had a bit of a rework recently in an attempt to make them from one of the better word interesting and get people playing them. I feel like this team, the things that they do well are the things that like impact them. They're like, the really annoying rules are the things that take away from other teams from doing stuff. Yeah. I feel like this team doesn't seem to do that unless they've been changed massive. Like even their best thing, the comms guy being able to build AP, that's just something that's good for them. It doesn't take away from the team. It doesn't stop you targeting them. It doesn't, it feels like these guys might be quite low, but then I'm relatively ignorant to their current changes. So I don't know what else. Well, I'm actually ignorant. I feel like I was just going to leave it there. I thought maybe I should clarify. Just in case it was generous. It was generous, but yeah, that's fair. I know again, gut feeling, see them at the table. I'm like, cool.

1:32:40Like I'm never like, I know, I'm like, it's going to be a good game. It's going to be interesting. Again, they're pretty, very honest. So I don't feel that the annoying thing that don't really have crazy, survivable things that mean, I should have killed you there. You know they're going to shoot, they're going to shoot well, but that's their thing. The whole shooting, the whole shooting at the start of the turn thing is suck you there. That's all. Well, they have a shoot at the start like, like, like, yeah, Yagers. They used to have an initiative reroll, but then with the initiative system, they have a boy which says at the start of the firefight, if you are not the one going first, you can perform one action before your opponent gets to move. No, that is annoying. So they melt to you in the face if you grab an estiff. Or they go first and melt to you in the face if you give them an estiff. Yeah, it's a good idea. That's that's that's that's annoying points. That is pretty annoying. Yeah. So they changed the team to give them something annoying. That's fair. Like they needed something that was annoying. That was the conversation at the table.

1:33:41Guys, they're not annoying enough. People aren't upset by this team. Let's give me something. That's too much honesty. Like I remember last edition, they had elite points and they got to die at the start of the edition. And the only faction mechanic they had was the dash, which they also gave to inquisition when they brought casket, which is a truly a business state of the fairs. But yeah, everything else, they're just too super honest. They're a mind-guide, they're a medic, they have a plasma guy. It does what it says on the tin. And like, I like that about them. They are not an annoying team. They have one annoying thing that they recently got that they kind of need. So need to. Yeah, I think they're doing, I generally think they're pro, to me, they're probably the least annoying. Like even with the melt to us. Yeah, I mean, I've never mad about it. Yeah, I'm just like, you can't begrudge someone a Melta. No, I guess they're a skewed team. That's a better end point still. No, that didn't completely go. No, I didn't. I never see this. This is for the world to ever.

1:34:41I never see this team. I've used them once. The last time I used them, they had pretty sure they had elite points, but that was a while ago. It's like they used to be able to change their actual dice results. You get one you spend five elite points in that's a six. Whereas like the now they just have them free. They used to have them force. They have purity seals and they have ceased to this and whatever else. So they are more accurate. But yeah, because I effectively was like, it's really like orders. Like it's really like 40k. Yeah, you know, or god play, you know, where it's like, I need them to do this. So I'm going to, you know, and again, it's very honest because you're saying, what you're kind of doing. All right. Here's an annoying team. Inquisition. Great segue from is it just which part of S is that is that the simple? Is the conversation that simple? Yeah, that's where we're at. So for the reasons, the exaction

1:35:42were not any higher up. Inquisition. Herendus team. Six of their four easy golfers, four G indirects. They have stopped you going from going at the start. They have ignore stats. You try and stun them. They're not stunned anymore. I'm not slowed anymore. I'm not injured. So actually, I can make it to where I need to be. Fuck you. And then I have you counters having to do an extra APL, which is just a strange one for them to whip out their arse. And then they have the stop you from doing. Which sucks as well because you're like, a reposition dash to here and play ancestors or you shoot you in the face. You're already done the reposition dash. That's like, yeah, that's not good. And they have what's the relentless in pursuit, which is a really hard ploy. You try and move away from them or charge or fall back away from them. They can fall off charge and fall off move into you. But it's like three different boys and one as per the world team's judges.

1:36:42So like, if somebody moves within two of you and you're ready, you can play that boy and get to be within two of them but out of sight so that they can no longer shoot you. But again, they've already done the reposition. Yeah, it's that sounds horrible. And they get charged into them if you're the best world vet from concealed. And then obviously get the all the models from all the different teams. Again, like we talked about being out of spoiler for choice. Spoiler for choice. Who do you want at the right time? Yeah, there it is. Again, there's obviously a high skill ceiling with them. But they're, you know, so it's not every player is bringing them to get an easy win. But that's fully just for as the all the rules Dan just listed very quickly. Then that conversation with your opponent before the games even began of all the stuff that they can and you can't do. That's the big one too. It's the denial. Are they worse? Also, this is like, oh, okay. Oh, sorry. This is like the anti-level scamp team. Yes. Yeah, I was going to say.

1:37:43Yeah. Yeah. Anybody here with this team? You've done it for one reason and it's because you suck as a person and you're okay with people knowing that. That's why you brought in position. Oh, so major. Someone shows up with like, exactional rattlings as long. You're going to have fun. So in turn, but like they're like 40 k army to the table. I'm like, I have a star appears. Oh, gosh. I'm in four of those. I'm a long day. Are they worse than Kinoptic? Now they can't switch expendable off. That was really funny. Now it's gone. No, that's terrible. I bring them down a bit. Because I'm trying to think I'm like, are they worse than HiRatec? Yeah. I think they're worse than the elves. I can be worse than ex-stitch. I like the position. So annoying. I'm happy to hear this. I'm on board for this hate. Yeah. I'm here for the Inquisition hate. I'm on it. Put them at the top. Yeah. Yeah. Because brain load. Yeah. But like playing into them.

1:38:46Yeah. Constantly in the in the forefront of your mind has to be this boy isn't going to work. Although, fuck you over and your games done. Like that's the thing. There's no noise and noise. And there's that risk too that obviously with a team that is a big like brain load as an opponent that also you will get like they will make mistakes too. Which if you don't understand their rules from you can't catch. Yeah. That's a danger thing. That's a rough one. Is you know, like I don't know your team well enough. You're this is your fifth game or your fourth game. You're getting tired now. And you're just making wild assumptions. And I can't fact check your rules because I don't really know what you do. Like I'm guessing you're right. You sound confident. You know, and that leads to. They also have dice reduction and a new re-roll guy. And the ex-stitch. It's a no-brainer. They're the tippy top. They've gone to that. They've flown their way. Rot their fairons. And they are resting comfortably at the top of the pile. We'll move on to the mandrakes. Another team that's had a really good run in the in recent memory.

1:39:50Interesting. Trixi, they. They're reminding me. That's arch. They're Trixi. But like and you know, they obviously flip up the save mechanic which is interesting. Again, it's a very estero. It's a tero ether. No one can. They're going to go. I've got like, yeah. Are they? They're importing all over the place. Let's let's use annoying in the shroud. Yeah. The inquisition mirror is rough. You deserve to suffer. Both enjoy it. That's the pain. The case of pain there. You both put yourselves in there. Enjoy it. I would say worse than blates. Um for more annoying. Nail tracks more annoying. Yeah. Yeah, like they stop me from activating the leader who has a five-up just to scratch, which is more annoying than the regular one. They shouldn't get it, but they always do.

1:40:51Yeah. They have fight first. They have a stupid dash thing. They have charged through terrain. I have the stupid, what's he called, DERGEMOR stuff that injures you and he goes, oh, yes. Yeah. The DERGEMOR is a very annoying guy. There's a lot rests on him. Yeah. A myriad of these annoying things that they just do. And it's a faction mechanic of inverting saves. Right. Like firstly, you roll free sixes and it's like that's not actually good. You're like, damn, my way to die should know how. So I'm sitting there. No, I'm sitting there. That is the most annoying thing, isn't it? We're just like the crash of rolling three sixes to be happy. And then, oh, oh, that's a bad. Now is no. You never roll more traditional hot dice than you do against the man. It's like you will never see so many traditional crits in your life. Drake's game. That's the accurate. And then it's like, well, you want to see those ones, baby. They don't turn off.

1:41:51All right. So I've got, I've put them above blades. How do we feel about that? Yeah. I think that's fair. But below. So you're playing a higher technical salvages. You get reduced to like a five up save from three up is really things. Or you're playing like Ravanas or Gormungus. It's like, oh, thanks. You actually improved my save in this matchup because I'm extra, extra APL and a five up save. Weirdly, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Another interesting team. I played a little bit of these guys. I think they're good fun. The Nemesis claw. They've got annoying things. They can stop you from falling back. They can make you move out to get a meltdown in the face. A really cool. Yeah. They've been truly. A lot of losing as well. Yeah. With this team dropped, you're at sort of at launch that addition version of this team was my favorite Kiltine of all time. Yeah. I got a lot of love for these guys. Pretty annoying though. Are they annoying? Pretty annoying to play. I'm asking.

1:42:52I reckon they're probably, are they the most annoying team for sure? They've got a fight first as well or as all the dice. I think it will get to the come. Sorry. How is Slap even the knots? One. Well, they fight first, but only with one dice. Do you forget it when you're like both on low health and then he just punches you in the stomach and you're like, okay, that actually killed me. Damn, forgot about that one. You know, perfect. They've got the poison grenade stuff. So if you want to go into that, you know, they can annoy you. Yeah. Poison people. And Vox Cream. Just a roll map. Which is even more frustrating. True. I would not have thought it until you said it, but you're absolutely right. Yeah. I three killed my skull claim against nature. One of them is to try to activate him. And he made a roll on that four up. I was like, damn, it was a very good roll. And he was like, you know, I think this is the only one this torn I've made. So let's look at one to make. Thanks, buddy. Thanks. So you think the most annoying elite team, Reese?

1:43:53More annoying than death watch. Because that's tricks. Yeah, my I think also, nemesis claw, you're kind of based. If you're playing nemesis claw, yeah, there's you're like, oh, you're you're a cool guy. You can't ignore injury. Yeah, there's a scam factor for nemesis claw. I truly believe that there is. They all flip. Yeah, they can. Yeah, the nose, the no healing. They've got no healing still. I assume. Yeah. That's right. Yeah, it was always because obviously death watch healing is annoying. Yeah, talking about the annoying mechanic of just healing as you activate. Yeah. No, having that's under under ratlings over ratlings. Because I think they're more annoying than battleclade. I think it's just maybe if we go A, well, I think so personally, less than I think that is annoying is battleclade. Yeah, but that's all I can't put you think not as annoying as battleclade. Russ, I think I put the belly battleclade. Yeah, I'd say battleclade more annoying. But that they're less annoying, sorry, more annoying than gole mongers.

1:44:56I think so. Yeah, I reckon so. Yeah, then there's just snug snug. Snowy. Right there. It's because that's also this is why it's good to do this with it with the committee. You got the four opinions because also personal experiences will tarnish our like in the chat. You're a high. So true. Definitely our mind. That's rough. Yeah. Like our our heart attack circle really still less here annoying or where they triple ST annoying before. That's very true. That's a great question. I'm going to get the end if you want to move any of them down. Right. Russ, this is one for you mate. The plague marines. Your stinky boys. Big scum vibes to me. Hmm. I think big scum vibes definitely. And I think they used to be more annoying than they are, but they do have I mean, contagion was probably one of the most annoying things to happen. At launch. Yeah. Like that was annoying. It's now kind of shit, but it was one of the most annoying things to happen. If you were just like,

1:45:56if you come anywhere, hug and near me, you're injured. Like that is the most annoying thing you can do in the game. That's right. That's gone. Yeah, that's gone. So it's not I mean, it's not gone, but it's so watered down as to be gone. You're going to set it up. Yeah, I think it's I think if you just say, yeah, I was going to say it. It doesn't feel annoying. It feels like, oh, wow, you got me. That's going to happen. Maybe yeah, that's not too bad. I don't know. They've got the thing where if they can see you, they can do stuff. And what's that? Yeah, like I feel like you're the five inch movement. You kind of need that. Like I think they get a lot being so slow. I think that's fair. If it drinks, exactly because of you go into them, you're like, I will be able to out position you almost all the time, which is. You know, it's good to go into a team that you're like, I can out position you. Yeah. Can you say what is mean? When it goes off and doesn't go off, like it's like you were attacking someone and they were all three and you're like, oh my god,

1:46:58Kirsten Roy you are fucked. That's annoying. But it just that I've never I've had that once and it was only three. What's on save. Yeah, I mean, if it goes off, it is annoying. But I think it's because it's it's so rare. But it's so I play the game looking for those moments that I can do because of Rodgers because that's fun for me. Like that is. Yeah. I don't know. When you went to a whole team, you like charge stuff and the next turn, you know, you went to a powerful bat now. Good. That's pretty funny. Yeah. That is fun. And the reason he is a lot. Yeah, okay, that isn't I, but when it used to be more than one it is now, that was even more annoying. So they do have a heel, which I think they're probably, I don't know because of the five inch movement. Are they going to see you? Am I just claw? Yeah. No, they're not made with that bad. I don't think I didn't think so. I feel like I feel as easy as annoying. I feel low C, C, T. I feel like they're they're annoying factors or things that make them good have balanced heavily by their innate drawbacks.

1:47:59And they're and their got years aren't as hard to like remember, you know, like they're not, they don't feel super like, you know, you know, you don't get close to me because things might, you know, like things like that. Yeah. Honest, honest. All of that, all their gotchas are like, are you within three inches of that? That's it. Yeah. It'll get bad if you do that. Above the, are we doing an honorable mention for pathfinders and also murdering? We're in pathfinders worthy cause. We'll do it on. How was that last balance change? Why do they have full seat? Right. Crazy. They have full seat. They have full seat. Yes. That was the change. Which is the problem. We were broken many, many moons ago, over and like, I think they're going to don't have full seat. They still in the game. They caught the, they did classified, but they changed them. So you can, with the analysis of the expansion equipment, make someone cast having five marklights. She has full seat again.

1:49:00Crazy. Oh, wow. It should, it should. That is. That's wild. Very lots of full seat has always been a toxic mechanic and a horrendous. Why is it back even in declassified? Because it ruins a casual game. That's not casual if you're doing that. I feel like they realized that relentless was too much. So they started really toning down relentless. Yeah, it's only. And the same thing happened with full seat. So it was like indirect. It's too much. Let's not have any more indirect. But yeah, I thought that they've given, I thought it was reserved for birds only. Only birds get full seat. Only go. Only like really shit stuff gets full seat. But that's that's a full seat on a powerful weapon. That's yeah, and worthy causing, although worthy causing isn't as bad as it used to be, although it's still annoying. It's still it's still. If you stop to have finders at an event, I'm going to scream why don't you seek this and roam all over the room

1:50:01so you have to find them. And you're time, Dad. But it's fair. I'm not dead. It's just just above the salvages. How do we feel about that? Insy just to know the same things. Yep, like my auntie. Yep. That makes sense. All right. Pathfinder's stoppers here. Pathfinder's stoppers here. All right, I'll pop up with it. Not bad, but let's move on. Principal alone, I'm putting them in. They're in there on top of S.D. Yeah, I'll just say. Here we go. The big borrowing bugs, the raveners. I think it's where. Yeah. Now, gosh, are we? I mean, two weeks ago or now? What are we going to go now? Because I have a hair image of this thing. They've taken a big hit. They've taken a big, big hit. I'm a panic. That allows you to have all five of your tips off the board until right until the end of turn four. It's not a hard one. No. And then you see that team, you're like, I'm going to have to interact with an empty board. Yeah, for two and a half turns. Yeah. Yeah. Minimum. For two turns, you're doing nothing.

1:51:02And it's just like, oh, why am I playing this game with you? I'm not really playing a game with you. Yeah. I'm, what is the game of myself? Yeah. Yeah, basically, get a stayed at home and done that. Better and worse than Knapp Jack. Whiz. Oh, they probably know I asked here anymore. Like, the most stat check is bad. So you can't kill them at least. Yeah. Did they reduce their wounds, didn't they? They did. Yeah. Dan and I think they're a couple of sides. I think it's on the top of the map. Very top of A tier if they're A tier though. Very top. So my suggestion was to, you should only keep one runner in the tunnel, you know, allowed anymore. So that would be an interesting thing about like, it has to be empty if you want to ride into the right out of sight. Or if you want to keep the trimmer sight in that. I think that would be cool. But like, yeah, I was surprised it took so long to change the thing about scoring your tack-ops while in the tunnel. Oh, the dominate. That was it. That's a huge amount of long that hung around for. When it implied was in the game, she implanted them and they were in the tunnel. It didn't count. Yeah. Yeah, things like that. It's a cycle.

1:52:02When they don't interact in the traditional way and again, that, but again, with those changes, if they're on the table tomorrow, how do we feel? They're still S tier, aren't they? They're still, because I guess it hasn't changed how they play the game except for the two. These two Gibronis want them to be AT. Hey, Reese. I look like an A. But exactly. And Ben, your eyes are grounded. I think top of A. Top of A. More annoying than death. Ben loves them. More annoying than death watch. Any more, I would say. Oh, yeah, I think so. Yeah. You see, I'm feeling death watch should be dropping out of S to the top of A. And I would put ravenas at the tail end of S. All right. We'll do that. Yeah, that seems fair. Because I'm like the, the ravena, like the fine line, death watch still play the game in the traditional way just with less operatives. Whereas we talked a lot about the ball. That's on there on the ball. Yeah, there, there, there's an inherent dishonestead, guys, about not being on the ball. All right.

1:53:02Another team that I've been looking at a lot, trying and I was meant to be taking this tournament, but I just did not get any of the prepping the sanctifiers. I thought you were going to see the spectrary squad. Oh, no, no, no, I've already failed miserably with them. I've still, they are still fun. But the sanctifiers are an interesting one. There's been, I was a very small percentage of people bringing them back and doing well with them. Maybe I think because everyone has forgotten what they do. They came out broken. Now they are toned back. But I'd still say there's a lot of annoying elements within their tape. As someone trying to learn them, there's a lot of inherent tricks in this. They're also annoying to play. I would say this is an element as in as the, the pilot. I think they might take all the boxes for having everything that makes an annoying team. Even though I think right now they're not an annoying team, but they do have like a, just a scratch. They do have leading the couch reduction. Yeah.

1:54:02They look like the musicians. Oh, yeah, they can't do it. Yes, it's huge. Yeah, they've got, they've got a seek as well. Like, yeah, they set it up. But yeah, but they, I think technically they have almost everything that we've classified as annoying. Just a scratch. Yeah. Yeah. But I think they haven't pretty, but they've got just a scratch and damage reduction. Yeah. And super consistent, like flame weapons. So lots of flame weapons. So you're real like, you know, they push through damage pretty consistently across the board. Like everyone, the miraculous does some wild damage, even though they're one shot weapons, you only need one one crack at it. Yeah, I would say these guys, the only thing I think that stops them being annoying is because they are, I think quite difficult to pilot that it stops a lot of people playing them, that that's probably why we're not more annoyed by them because we don't, they're so rare. They're rare out of the wild. You don't see them alone. Yeah. I feel like we've sort of come full circle to it. There's a slight scamp factor. There was a little Yeah. I think that's the main factor.

1:55:04Yeah. Anything. This is the scamper tier list really. Well, you might toss or someone's hair and be like, get out of here. You're scamp. You're a guy. Are you a scamper? That's what we have. Yeah. I think this team might be scamp, even though in the wrong hands, they could be awful. Yeah, that's it. Like that, you can really, can really, really ruin your day. As I said, they've got, we touch on that. The ability to stop your opponent doing things. They've got the ability to ignore a lot of it. That was, I wouldn't mind putting them in. I think if they're in B because of the scamp factors. That's right. When they came out, they were like, keep annoying. Yeah, they were. So would we say, I would say, potentially top of B is where I'm thinking. Yeah. The scamp factor keeps them out of A. The scamp factor saves them a lot. All right. Scats. Another team that's had a bit of a big scamp.

1:56:04I know what I find this team annoying. There's two more people on the team that are talking about. But they've got all that stuff that happened. They've got their own phase. How conceited do you have to be to get your own phase? I find that so annoying. It's like, have you done it? Why? Because my phase is about to begin. And that's annoying. That's just annoying. But they do have scamp. But for me, they're quite high because I just find that annoying that they've got their own phase. They've got tricks. But again, they seem to be that team that's a few changes to them made them a bit weird, bit too powerful. And then, but now they've spent a long time in the the seller, which gives them the real scamp factor. I think I'm peeking under the attack. That's pretty funny. Yes. Oh, that's great. I don't mind that. That's a scamp action right there, isn't it? That's how you cheeky. Like, scamping a body like that. Yeah, I'm supposed to do that. That's supposed to be it.

1:57:05Yeah, get out of here. I stay dear, guys. I'm thinking, dear. Really? But do you have a start on stun? Yeah, I was thinking more like, high sea because I think where the scamp factor is there. I can't. Their rules are designed to be tricky and annoying. Like, that's kind of their thing. I don't know. Yeah, but it's not, I guess it doesn't pay. I'm maybe it doesn't paying that way. But when you pull up BCP and you see, yes, I'm playing scouts, you probably go, oh, cool. Yeah, cool. I think you just know, oh, yeah, all right, sweet. You're not sweating it, I feel like. All right. So if we go day, we're in day, we're thinking below, I think Heidi. Hi, Blake. Maybe Tippy Top of day. Tippy Top of day. I'm happy with Tippy Top of day, because I think that it's they want to be annoying. They just can't and that's not their fault. They're more annoying. Yeah, it's right. Yeah.

1:58:06Yeah. Am I wrong? Yeah, I think that's a good way to look at it. Yeah, yeah. They are more annoying than the Vegas for sure. Now my other lovable scamp team that I wanted to be so much better, it is the specters. It's again, a team that is designed to be annoying. Like, they're, they're thing. That's the thing though. It's designed. Biggest survival all time. Yeah. This is, this is okay. This is an NPO team. This is like a Nemesis NPO team. It's the only team they've ever released that people treat like it's not classified. Like, people, at least here, people are just like, don't even rate them at all. Like, it's not even zero. How many? So I don't know. I feel like pretty low. This team least I found of them. They're the only team that has a different color background to all the other teams, which really, even this person didn't have them rated as the same, the same sphere as the other team. So there you go. I understand that. I mean, look, they are annoying to play again. If you don't, yeah. No, if you don't respect them, you can still do some, I am not a great player.

1:59:07And I still had some really annoying moments with them. Granted, it was, I get from my opponent. Like, you can pull off some pretty filthy stuff. I was going to say, I think they're, they're core mechanic is annoyance. Yeah. Personified. It is. Oh, it's me now. What? No, I'm interrupting. I'm shooting into blind combat with a melt. Do you know what I mean? That is, it's annoying as hell. Like you can almost all but guaranteed to get the melt off. I guess that's. Kazakin. I guess there's no, no different really. Yeah. I don't know. They're big issue. Obviously, I know what you mean about the scam factor though. Yes, there's a lot because I said like they've got no melee. So most melee teams, you know, if they, you know, they're doing what we'll give you, we'll give you grief. Obviously, they've also only got X amount of, like I guess actual weapons that can put people down. There's the melty gun. There's the rocket launcher, but that has a lot of caveats being actually full heavy and stuff like that. And yes, there's ways around. But that then makes you make decisions about your loader operative.

2:00:07So I'd say as the person piloting them too, they're quite annoying to pilot because it doesn't take, you don't have to get it much wrong for it to fall apart. And at least that was my experience. Are you sweating at all when you see them that you're matched up into them? Yeah, I hate this team, bro. Like I do that fast. So I would be, I know a good player for me. He's not going to give me a good, it's going to be an annoying game because it's like you are, as Russ said, you're going to do this cool. I'm going to interrupt. You're going to do everything is going to interrupt. And I do a move. Are you going to do something? Are you going to do something? And that sort of dynamic. That's fair. Yeah, that's fair. You don't get to play your game. You're playing at their tempo because they do have the ability to call it. They feel like battle clay to me in the same level of annoyance. And there is, if you're first game into them, you're playing a reactionary game

2:01:10because you're waiting for them to expire their points. Which, like they can do stuff that is by definition just annoying. It's like, I think they're up there with battle clades. The wherever, wherever we put battle clade, I can't remember where they're in the middle of battle clade. Are they in the middle of it? I feel like the spectre squad is, is another battle clade, basically. Your first game into them will be horrible. Yeah. That's true. And then you'll figure out, you'll figure out what their thing is and how to counter it. But that first game is going to be. I feel you won't always lose to them, but you'll have a bad time winning. Like, you'll have to really have, like, yeah, you just have to make, because your mistakes will hurt, like they suck. It's nothing worse to go. And I'm just going to move this going on the objective. Cool. That's Meltagun Chuchu in the face. So the rocker launch you forgot that was up on the point up the top there. It's just going to chitu in the face. I forgot that.

2:02:10This load is going to make the rocker launch a chute again now. Yeah. Things, lots of those little things like that, for me, it's all unfun. Yeah, it's all none of those things are fun. So I would say just above battle clay, or just below, I think you're right, Rasa. I think they're in that space. I'm more or less annoying. You're a good damn. We got your back mate. That's all good. We got lead and clear, so. And look, it's good to mix up the framing. So that's fantastic. So, yeah, so let's go. Do you want to say, so Rasa did miss that then? So, Matt, where did you think? I was going to say, do we think they're more annoying than nemclaw or less annoying than nemclaw? I'd say more for myself. Yeah, the more mechanic itself is going to be more. I'm a game now. Yes. Yeah. And because I'm afraid of nemclaw more if that makes sense, but I would say spec'd there's a more annoying. Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah. And that's what the deal is about.

2:03:13Austin, in terms of playing that game, where they just don't do anything until super late on, like they wait 11 times and then send a relentless melt in your face. Not a fan. No, not an idea. Peek-a-no-ing. Aqualons, the drop troopers. Again, I feel like scamp vibes. Yeah. But you know what, actually, is it annoying? Because it's an annoying mechanic, but it's quite honest because they set to and then they go, like, this is where I'm going to go. Yeah. At the end of it, you're still like, okay, so that's where it's happening. And everything's happened by turning point two. Yeah. And it's not a significant amount of the team off the board too. Like it's there's still models on the board. Yes, turning point one's going to be. But as you said, it's like a little goose step at the start. And then they just kind of play normally after that. You know? Yeah. I like that. Yeah, the goose step. That is what the team is. It's a little goose step over here. Oh, I agree.

2:04:13And then they commit. And then you're like, right, okay. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if it's annoying. Up for me, I look forward to, I think there'll be a fun game. I'm never annoyed by it. I like, I think, the mechanic. They've been around long enough that I feel like the mechanic's been honed in that it feels not too much. It gives them a bit of character, bit of flavour. And now they can't plant beacons. You know, they can't plant beacons. And flank isn't, isn't it broken? I feel like there's not that big a deal. I'm not a deal. They're a deal for me, I think. I'm like, I, D. Yeah, I think they're fine. I don't think they do anything that annoys me. Like, their rules kind of cool. I don't have a shield. I kind of believe we've got scouts. We've got scouts in D. They're so annoying. Kind of believe they're in there, honestly. Anyway, less annoying than scouts for sure. That was good. That's good. Behind scouts than, yeah, yeah. That's fair. All right. Yeah, I'd never dare any thought.

2:05:14I feel like that. I feel like that. We've got how many? These best spits, wolves, records, murder wings, somehow down the bottom. And the stealth suits. Oh, stealth suits. Oh, I can't wait. Yeah. We're nearly there. Yeah. The fact you're mechanics a bit of a pain. Like being off the board sucks, but it's like, turn one and turn two, which feels fine. And then the rest of the team pretty honest. So it's like fine. Yeah. Go for it. It has a bit of the cast again vibes. Like they're they're troopers after that. You know what I mean? They don't have huge damage negation. They shoot well, but again, you kind of know what, like, you feel relatively confident. You know where it comes from. I'm happy to say sort of maybe just before the Yagers after scouts, but before Yagers. Sure. Fine. She's level. Yeah. Now Russ, your bug boys, the vestbots. I love the vestbots. I love them. How they annoying? So are you annoying?

2:06:14Well, the thing is I'm annoying 100%. But I feel like the thing is one of those teams, if the dice are with you, this is the most annoying team to play. Yeah. Because they're a shooting team that hits, although they're quite good in combat with staying, the very good in combat with staying. There is shooting team that if you, I mean, man alive, the long sting, if you get four hits on fives, that is the single best and single worst moment of that game for both those players. Because you're like, oh, that person's dead immediately. If we don't even talk about it, you're just dead. I don't know. I don't think they're annoying. I think there is scamp vibes with these teams because they hit on fives. No, sorry, sorry. They're saving on fives. They've got a decent amount of wounds. Yeah, I'll talk. Yeah, hitting on fours. Yeah, sorry. No, they're saving on fives. They're hitting on fours, but it's a shooting team. So that's the main thing. But yeah, combat got a bit better. So, but again, they're not only three attacks in combat. So they're not by any steepest. Like, but you're getting a shock. You're getting lethal five.

2:07:15They somehow seem to be good in combat. And knowing Lisa's live ability in close combat, I'd definitely say times. You know, if your role's not right, they roll good. The shock really, really keeps them alive and keeps them in the mix. They move in over abilities. Amazing. I can't annoying. I would say almost zero gotchas apart from they do have darting flash. Yeah, darting flight, which I guess in a way could be a gotcha because you'd be like, oh, I can actually move an additional three inches on that. And then maybe get to some place. It's offensive. Although I guess it's quite useful. I have done it to do it in my final move. And then when initiative I'm wrong forwards again and shoot the blast. Oh, that's pretty nice. That's pretty nice. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, they do have that blast, which is I guess a little bit annoying. The token thing. I mean, if you're an Octarius, if you're playing them on Octarius, that is the most annoying. Oh, a silly. A silly is probably a good year. Yeah. Yeah. So that is quite annoying. So you can a little mobile vantage.

2:08:17And yeah, okay. So there's some a little bit annoying things like that. But I like the air. It's just pretty funny as well. I think they are reliable. So much like I know. You can have a wildly good game with them, but you could also equally have a game where you get no crits. You're not pushing in. You don't get your shocks off all those things. And the wheels are off. So what do we think? Are we thinking D or low C? I can see it. C? Okay, I'll take it. You'll take it. Bottom off. Bottom off. Sure. Yeah. Hey Russ, just to really upset you, they're just slightly ahead of Scouts. I and now I kind of believe you guys are just okay with Scouts having their own phase. I find them wildly. Wildly inappropriate that they have their own phase, but whatever. Just me. You mean the scouting phase? Yeah. Yes. They bring it back. Just for letting. Never let it go. They never it never left. I think there's another team here that's going to the tippy top. The Wolf Scouts. They have had a little trim nearly every balanced data slate

2:09:18since they came out. Possibly came out as one of the closest to the most broken teams. I can remember. They certainly had their moment when they dropped. When they dropped. Yeah. Was wild. They've been consistently paired back. We talked about the the higher tech circle of slowness earlier in the day. These guys obviously have the storm, which has been curtailed a lot, but still covers a lot of the board. They have lots of ways of moving it. And any of the time they're basically in there, they mess stuff up. They don't get as much reward now on retaliation as they once did. Some of their shooting and stuff's been said. The wolf's base is the original exodine trouble maker in terms of tying up lots of operatives, move blocking the charge out of phase and stuff like that. What do we think, Lads? I just feel like they're not that bad anymore.

2:10:20Holding it in makes them feel a lot more like they really had crayon into vibes. But just just within just like come on, right? I want to come as far as the board is not hard. Yeah. You said crayon either. Yeah. I like that. That's fantastic. All they're pushing them up the note now I guess. See, I feel I'll see how the day where the day takes me. Yeah, I feel like yeah, definitely, it's good. I think they've had those consistent sort of knockbacks, which I think has made them back to a more manageable team. And maybe a lot of those things that were really getting people upset are gone now or at least time down. I still think there are very difficult teams to play against. Getting in the storm, battling over the objectives, having that over, you know, probably can still cover nearly two objectives or still a large portion of the board. They've changed the most annoying operative that they had, which is just you take this operative in your team and no one can be stunned. No one, you know what I mean?

2:11:20That was. Maybe it's just a most annoying thing ever. Like I don't really. But not done with it. It's also pretty annoying. Yeah. Oh, yeah, the, yeah. Yeah, that's how you say annoying. Yeah, I mean, these have been toned down now. But yeah, I still have the game. My mind is annoying. Top of a, I think they're more annoying than Death Watch. Yeah. Yeah, I don't like them. Like I want a team to be a sneakier like team like Fobos to sort of place them. Yeah, they're not trying to make a stab check. They all have pretty simple, straightforward stuff. And antipersync, which sucks. Hate that. And the cat. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Happy with that. Top of a. So we're saying less annoying than raveners, but they're still awfully annoying. Lads, still awfully awfully annoying. Yeah. Now, I think speaking of scams, possibly the biggest scams in the game, it's the records. Yes, definitely. So, Joe, this team, this is saying annoying dude.

2:12:24Sit down, Russ. Sit down. Ron. Sit down. Currently. If you're, if you're buying a ride down, yeah, if you're bringing records, you're a role dog, dude. You're a good one. You're one of the good ones if you're bringing records. Can you, can you blow off a, the strongest operative on the table in a single shot? Yeah, but also, yes, you might just whip every shot. Yeah. And I think if you bring them, you are, you're a good one. You're one of the good ones I'll say. As a record, enjoy yourself. You're one of the good ones. Their mechanic inherently welcomes you to the world of all gambling. It feels so orky. Looking for those sixes, shooting lights, but hitting badly. It all feels great there. They are annoyingly survivable. You know, often you, you know, they really do hang around. Bombsquigs are great. Slash annoying. There's two of them. Bombsquigs are annoying. People don't really know a lot against records. I'll say, for as not as annoying, I really don't think they're annoying, but when I play them, I get a lot of complaints where it's just like in a combat.

2:13:26It's like, okay, I'll just turn those like all hits and people will grown audibly. Yeah, that is annoying. They have their moments. They have their moments, but I think they're pretty, like they're not going to trick you. No, I wish they didn't have the greatest for the pulse of rocket. Yeah, yeah, that's the good stuff. Yeah, because the pulse of rocket is annoying. You know, pick a spot and then just pick a visible spot or a vantage and just bang. Yeah. That is also too accurate. I love the blast to me so much. I love it. It fuels me. It's hard because I have such scamp vibes, but they're not, they're also not an easy matchup because of that swinginess. And even when their shooting does fail, then they're still awks, they're still tough, they still, they still hang around. Yeah, I'm for me, they're kind of like a perfect BT team because they've got high upside, they've got high scamp factor. They kind of, it's level. You know what the phrase is? There's a phrase that you hear when you're playing someone who's playing records,

2:14:30records that is just the most annoying thing to hear when they say, so yeah, so I'll use record points to make that unsavable. Yeah. And you're like, sweet. I'll, I'm going to use record points to make sure you definitely die and you're like, fuck you. Yeah. You know what I mean? You can play that bit, you can be like, but what if I make all the saves and I roll out a sneaky little five, little five aerial assault? That's living in the past. I don't know, but what if he does make all three of those fires? I'm going to spend another record point and you leach that thing, something that would never going to happen. Yeah. It's fantastic. I like it in my mind game. It's mind game reverse though. There, there, there, there, I always laugh too things like when the Bob's squeak blows up and like you're killing or whatever blows up and they get to roll to farm record points off the explosion. Yeah. Again, very awful. Wonderful. But I'm also as your partner, I'm like, what, oh, that, I had one time where it survived. It blew itself up and survived. Oh, it happens all the time. Yeah. And I was like, they,

2:15:31knowing you just said it blew itself up. They're not batting. Tomber. Yeah. And he's like, yeah, no, but it's, it's okay though. And I'm like, I saved that. What do you, what do you mean? So my guy's fine then. Like because it's the guy who had the TNT and his mouth didn't die. Surely my guy's okay, right? He lived. Yes, just a clarify. He lived and farmed however many points. But I'm dead. Yeah. Good. He's been on a dynamite. They just die it for like a year. The views of the stuff. I don't care. Like, it's what it is. He's done the old Rasputin. And he's just like, I'm just taking a little dose of dynamite. I'm gonna be dead. I'm gonna be dead. All right. How did you guys about my B my B? I'm singing bottom of B so they're just, there's a there a bit annoying. But it's balanced. Yeah, it's by scam factor. That works. That works. I mean, we have scouts at the top of D. This list is wild so far. So whatever. If we move out, would you, would you sleep soundly?

2:16:32Yeah, where would you put them, Russ? Where would you put them? Above vest bids. Okay. That's just, I do that honestly. Oh, well, I just moved the whole screen. So I got carried away. I tried to move the thing that's not the, I tried to move the actual screen thing. Anyway, yeah, all right. Here we go, Russ. We don't actually, we don't actually have to move. No, there you go. I've moved vest bids. I'm like you need it. To the bottom of D. Scouts. I need to be fine. I need to be fine too much. Okay. Yeah, okay. All right. The murder wing. The flying Nemesis core. Um, again, I just feel bad for them. Yeah, that's the problem. When they should have been was legionaries. And they're not as good as legionaries. I think they're in the shadows of legionaries still. Even though they are, when they came out, they were amazing obviously. Yeah. The big challenges. On the J-Map. Or it. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, talk it. It's like, they still. Sorry, I got.

2:17:32Now, I guess they play that retrieval game, which kind of sucks. Is just retreating on wild branches, which. Yeah. It just doesn't feel like how they should be played, which is why I kind of feel like if you're a chaos player, you're probably not playing these. Do you be playing a team this a little bit? You're going for gomongers because it's like, I want to get my killing yucks. I'm going to play a team that's a bit more aggressive than murder wing. Murder wing. Yeah. Yeah. How are they not retrieval wing? Like how are they not the murderous team ever? So I do feel bad for them, but yeah, they did need something to stop them being tolerable like when they first came out. I get that, but yeah, I don't know. I don't think they're in their final resting place. Yeah, I think they will. Some things are going to happen to make them. I don't know if they had their time in the sum. Have they have we is that it? Are you going to go to the bar? I'm going to go back. Yeah. Yeah, that was. I think that was the only way. The team that everyone was like, let's ban them from tournaments.

2:18:32Yeah. When they came up, that was it. Wasn't it? Yeah. That's maybe that's it. Maybe this is where they deserve. They'll get deep classified and then they'll get full seek. They'll get the pathfinder's treatment. Okay. You just get straight away. 12 inch charge. Yeah, 12 inch charge. It'll be all back. Yeah, I mean, again, there's still Marines. The maneuverability is still good. They've still got tricks, but obviously they don't have a lot of the healing and survivability that some of the other ones have. You know, the walktellen sings cool, but I don't know if it's necessarily feels that powerful. Like it's ability to drop in. I don't think so. Yeah, it's it's cool, but it's not because it's really telegraphed. It's like, feel me in here somewhere. Yeah, you know, the bubble is going to charge out of don't you? Yeah. I feel like that now is pretty much just retrieving runaway on this point. Yeah, which is annoying. Yeah, like that's annoying to play into. No, but you know, it's going to happen. Yeah. I've made that easy. Maybe that's a fact. Maybe that'll be a true, right? You're still thinking, hey, that annoying? Just because of the uninteractive playstyle.

2:19:34Yeah. I think the playstyle, I think, pushes them higher than maybe what, you know, just the some of the parts. Yeah. I had them as high B just a bit annoying because it's like, fine. Yeah. Thanks. It's like, yeah, there's still Marines. So they're still, you know, it's been a bit of a, and but just because of how hard it's been toned back, I think they're not the the boogie man threat or annoying threat. Oh, yeah. All right, last time this may surprise you. It is the stealth suits, Ben. I know you've been waiting. We've dusted them off just for you, right? These guys pissed me off in so many ways. They are annoying. Number one, Tao, gross, yucky. Very yucky. Number two, just the fact that everything that they are and everything they do offends me on a personal level. So I'll pass it over to you guys. Yellow, right? It seems like a lot seems like weak one, but we'll count it up. Yeah, I mean, the, the,

2:20:35the runtime mechanic of just not invisible. It just, the, surely not a valid target's better because then any tack up the requires visibility is just fucked. Just have it like on the straight strain. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly right. That example, yeah. That's just that, that for me is enough to fix it. So you can, so like certain tack ups are just non, you just can't take it and that's annoying. Because it's like, well, I can't ever take that because I can't ever use it. Yeah. So I think that they're very annoying. That is really, if you blow down the accurate in shooting multi-accus. Of course, you played up to play, that I skate, man, you're not rolling it. You're not going to roll it. I can't target you and you're not rolling dice. What are we doing here? Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I think that has to be high in the annoyance. I think there's a lot of. And again,

2:21:35I'm sorry. God, sorry. You go ahead. I was just, I was just, I was just, I think there's a, it's a classic cross. I think there's a lot around that this team, unfortunately, their rules a bit like the spectre squad are designed around that idea of being annoying. Like that is kind of their thing. That's designed to be not interactive. It's a, it's a game play style, you know, and especially for those of us who love the more aggressive engagement or charging forwards or getting, you know, playing the game that traditional way. These guys are definitely counted. They're a game after all. Yeah, it suits kill team like it like and they're thematic for them. But in terms of, as you said, the quality of game you'll have against them. How do you feel seeing them across the board? They are, you know, probably one of the poster towel for annoying in a lot of ways, it's just based on their rules. Yeah, I think I would have preferred them being a bit more of a jetpackie assault. Yes. Yeah. Kind of that would have been cool.

2:22:37Like they burst forward and it's like, you're talking to people, yeah, like chaff missiles. I don't know, like similar like that. Like mecca. I don't know. But we're across between path fighters and furbos. Yeah, that's what I would have. That's what I kind of wanted. But they're just. I would see me. The accurate work the other way round. Like the further into their half, you get the more accurate you get. Yeah, yeah. Are we cool? Yes, yeah. So like close assault. Push you forward. Yeah. Yeah. You have to play aggressive with them, but you get a massive reward for doing so. Yeah, I love that. I love that. I've asked as well, which is annoying. And you kind of want that idea that is it? Maybe yeah, they lead to something like the stealth thing is that, yes, they start, as we said, not visible, not a eligible target. I mean, sorry, the other way around. But like that. And then when they get involved, then that's like they're revealed. But that's a bit like tempestus. It's like turn one or two, yep, they get the sneaking and set up. But then they're revealed. And then it's like surprises. So I think it's K, K, or Yon or whatever that the towel do.

2:23:37And then it's like, then they're meant to be really aggressive. It's like, hey, should hunt us. Set up, set up, set up. Now we're gone all out. Whereas this just always kind of feels like they're not hitting that aggressive moment. There's not that tipping point of like, okay, it's go time, which is no fun. No fun, no bueno, no bueno, no scamp factor whatsoever. Low scamp factor, no scamp factor, yeah. All right. If we say S, where you can just by all the on top of the vantage. And then there's literally nothing Europe can do to touch you, because I can't shoot you because of think. Yeah, I can't fit that big. So they can't charge you. Yeah, no good. Horit. No good. Horrible. Which part of ST? Let's where do they drop? I hate. I hate them the most. Now that he team in the game. Wow, you hate them the most. Wow, love it. That's big. I knew I like this guy. Ben, are you also going to have to be the worst? I'm real down on this team.

2:24:39I just, I think they could have been so cool. And yeah, I'm just not about them. Yeah, they represent everything I just like about. About a play start. Hey man, put it in. Some of that. Put him on top of that. Top we're calling it. I'm okay with that. The towel reigns supreme. The only declassified team. Just to reinforce any stereotypes the 40k community has about towel. Here we are. God, it's true. Is now feel bad now. We're those. I just think we have become like a long look in the mirror. If you are playing tap on this. Someone's sitting there. I used to like this show. You guys are awful. Like we've just paced him. Tau is like, All right, guys, that's it. That's that's the tier list. So we're the most in the team. I'll actually have hours. Yeah, I'll just use that. That's slew by two and a half. If you're listing on the podcast just a quick recap. So then we can send Ben to bed. So in that we'll go start the bottom. In the definitely fine. Defeat definitely fine.

2:25:39We've got starting from the bottom working up. We've got the Cassecond. Absolute scamps. You've got the fast orcas, exaction, Yagers, level rogues, level rogues, aqualons and the vest bed. So that is your D tier. Then in the C, AKA can't complain too much. We've got russus scouts. The salvage and complain. Flaguarines, hand of the icon, angels of death and then the incidents. Then into B for a bit annoying. We've got the records, breaches, chaos cults, brood brothers, sanctifiers and then the murder wing. Heading into A for awfully annoying. We've got the gall mungers, nemesis claw, specter, battleclade, rattlings, deathwatch and the space wolf scouts. And then to the wonderful ST is super annoying. We've got the raveners, we've got felgore, blades of cane. We've got the mandrakes, hand it on time. This is at hand of the icon. Sorry.

2:26:39The higher tech circle, conoptic. We've got the dinosaur riding exonites in inquisition. The honorable mention, the pathfinders have been brought back from declassified to be had the boot stuck in about them getting full seek. And the top of the table, the stealth suits. That is the annoying tier list. I mean, I handles it. Go like. I think I think it's I think we did pretty well. I'm actually pretty happy with that. Yeah. There's a few more teams in and ask the right for ought. Would be there. One of them is an honorable mention. So that doesn't really count. But apart from that, again, as all things in kill team, it is actually pretty close to balanced. Yeah. Yeah. I agree there's some nitpicking you could do. But yeah, one thing that I'm noticing is that as we have progressed generally into where we are now, the more recent teams are filling the A and S. Yeah. Yeah. Like that is the thing.

2:27:40You see in D. It's not a bunch of recent teams. That's, you know, outside the outlier. Yeah. But, uh, I guess I'm just pretending that way. Maybe maybe maybe kill team is trending annoying. That's what it seems like. I think it is also sometimes some of those other teams as they become older. They get played a less like played less. So you forget some of the annoying things. But also they've usually had an isn't as near. Yeah. And they've also had to real for balanced data slides that have probably taken the edges off some of the annoying things too. Yeah. That's a lot of the tech. Yeah. I'm very. Perfect. I'm like, I'm very. Yeah. Some teams they're annoying on running. They've removed a lot of the annoying stuff. And then game back. Dealing annoying. Yeah. But that's it. No, it's yeah. There's I think you're I mean, yeah, Ben, you spot on it. That's that's hard to just dispute for sure. You know, but that's I guess it's still relatively balanced. There's always going to be boogie there. I totally agree. There's going to be teams. There's going to be.

2:28:40And there's sometimes it's just teams you love to hate. Okay, either Necrons or a great example, the tower or the example. Yeah, I think I think they just get love to hate to be honest. Yeah. We do have to solicit the incidents in the con complain too much. Yes. That's the most recent team in the con complain too much. Yeah. Yeah. Go right out. And they know most of the complaints are about the amount of tokens. They might have cardboard on the board. Which is valid. The very valid complaint. Very valid. Yeah. You sneeze during a game. I don't know what the hell you did. What's your name? Yeah. You're right. Ross. Game over. Just the Tories. I'm not a title. Exactly. That's the game done effectively. He's like, oh, Christ. Well, look, thank you so much, Dan, for joining us, mate. We really, really, really, all the time. Absolutely pleasure to have you on. We'd wanted to do it for a long time. But the Russ has a strict entry code on all guests. And you the paper was extensive. The entry code is no. You got there. Yeah. You had to check your token. It's very much.

2:29:41Having me. Yeah. Cheers for coming on, mate. It's pretty fun. A huge thank you to the chat. You've stuck through an possibly long episode. If you have watched this back on YouTube, thank you again for sticking all the way through. You're seeing on the pod. Hopefully we got you from one side of the country to the other in your car trip or your YouTube nine trips back and forth to work. Sorry, it was this long. Hopefully it's a good popby session, whatever. But we had fun. Sorry, it all. No, sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. New apologies from us. We wanted to make the most of this. Take a week to listen to it. It's fine. Yeah, back to the day. It's fine. We'll do it. We'll do a notes version for you. If you want, you know, really, you can just at any point skip to the end of the video and see the tea list completed. That's there's always that option. The last 10 minutes is pretty easy. That's a big turn isn't it? Yeah. A huge thank you as always to Ben from Battle Brothers Table Top. It's been a pleasure, sir. That's me. Thank you very much. Going up rust from GFN Gaming. Thank you very much for thanking me and thanking you, Reese from Three-Stu-Wooned.

2:30:45Thank you. Oh, once again to Dan. We really appreciate it. Everyone in the chat, we love you guys and gals and everyone who hangs out with us. We really, really appreciate you making time. We'll see you next week when I'm only going to mention this now. If you get this sweet treat, you got it all the way. And where we will do the paint competition, which we'll meant to do this week. Oh, God, yes. We've meant to do it this week when we haven't forgotten. We haven't forgotten. We haven't forgotten. You only know that we haven't forgotten. We've just meant we haven't forgotten. We only know we haven't forgotten. If you get to the end of the show, that's a sweet treat for you. Oh, no. Yeah, we should have set that at the start. We definitely. But we will. And we love you all. We'll see you next week. Yes. See you.