Just war through a Catholic lens: Applying an ancient moral framework to the U.S.–Israel–Iran conflict

0:00We are Faith and Fury, Love and Fire. This is the Human Equation, where every voice counts and every true cuts deep. With your host, Joseph Pangar, hello my friends and welcome to the Human Equation, I'm your host, Joe Pangar. You know, since our goal here is to talk about all things being a person, I don't think we can step aside from the conflict going on in Iran without looking at the human side of what's happening. So we know the political side of what's happening is a nightmare. We have politicians who are using the situation for political gain, not the gain of the United States. We are watching politicians side with our enemies because it provides them cover to go against

1:05President Trump, which is huge for them. You know, the Trump derangement syndrome has to be satisfied at all times. It's one of these never-ending psychological situations that are going on. And then we have the reality. We can have, we can talk about the religious side of this. Now, religiously, thou shalt not kill, right? Actually, it's thou shalt not commit murder. Now, we talked about this recently. The difference between killing another person and murder is that murder is the intentional elicit inappropriate taking of a human life. If you protect yourself, someone's attacking you and you protect yourself using force and they die, that's justifiable homicide. If you are drinking in a barn, you are stupid and getting to a fistfight and punch a guy and he falls and cracks his head open and dies, that is manslaughter. That is not murder, even though a human being died. So when we think about the religious implications,

2:07we look and we see, you know, the Ten Commandments, thou shalt not commit murder. Doesn't say thou shalt not kill, right? Because we know that there's been battles in the Bible where the good, vanquish evil, we know these things have happened. But I think a lot of people are confused on exactly what the idea of a just war is. They say, you know, if you're religious, then you can never engage in a war where people get killed and that's not really true. Just like the death penalty. Now, I'm a Roman Catholic. I think I've told you that before. And I'm a practicing Roman Catholic. I go to church, I pray to God a lot. I'm trying to get myself right in the eyes of Jesus so that, you know, when my time comes, I can go to heaven. That's my goal. That's my goal for me, for my family, for my friends and everybody. But I do hear people, they'll say to me, well, oh, you're a religious guy. So therefore, you've got to be against this war completely, which is really just a veiled attempt

3:09for them to say, hey, I'm going to pit you against your religion. And you have got to side against Trump and this war. And that's why I wanted to talk about this because that's not true. Right? There is a just war. There's also the death penalty. And the church says, you know, in general, the death penalty is not appropriate unless, and there's an unless there's caveats, right? Because the church is not stupid. There are founders of the church, the leaders of the church, they're not stupid. They understand that there are evil people out there, very, very bad people. And when it comes to the death penalty, what they say is, if there's nothing else that can be done to protect society from this evil person who has committed or will commit more violence, then the death penalty is permitted because you have to protect society, right? Well, the idea of a just war is the same kind of a situation. Only there are some caveats in there. All right?

4:13So according to the catechism, which is the, the understanding, it's the writings about the church and it explains the, how the church views things. And so if you're not Catholic, you never heard of the catechism, but it's been around. It's part of what guides us and helps us to understand things. So their description, their definition, a just war is often reluctant, defensive action permissible only when all peaceful alternatives have failed and strict conditions are met to avoid a greater evil. Okay, so there's a lot there. And what do I say all the time? Anybody who's listened to me, whether it's in my books, my teaching, my lectures, or here on our show, is that I say words mean things. And if we just look at something on face value, like saying thou shalt not kill is how people, you know, quote that, but in reality, it's thou shalt not commit

5:13murder. Big difference, right? And that's why we do definitions. You have to understand definitions. So let's break this down line by line. A just war is often, so therefore often means that it's not the first time it's ever happened. It is often reluctant. People don't want to go into it. Okay, so that's one of the first things. You know, so when I look at that, it says to me that if you are running around constantly, looking for a reason to have a war, then that is not reluctant. And therefore, it wouldn't meet the definition. See how this kind of put this together. And so it is often reluctant, defensive action. And so it's a defensive action. So in other words, if someone is attacking America, then we have a right to fight back. It's okay to get into war

6:13to fight back reluctantly, but we do it because it's a defensive action. Now we'll put this all in perspective with the Iranian conflict in a minute. It's a defensive action permissible only when all peaceful alternatives have failed. All right, so it's been done often. So it's not the first time. There is criteria that you can meet. It's a defensive action permissible when all peaceful alternatives have failed. So what does that mean? Let's break that line down. All peaceful alternatives. Well, I guess the most peaceful alternative would be to surrender. Wouldn't it just be to surrender to your enemy? That's peaceful. We're not fighting. I'm not throwing a knife. We're not throwing a bomb. I'm not shooting a gun. Nothing. Very peaceful. Is that a reality? No, because then you are

7:14not defending yourself. And you have a right to defend yourself. You don't have to just be slaughtered. See, so we're only two lines in and already there's lots to think about here to see if we're on the right path. So a just war is often reluctant. A defensive action permissible only when all peaceful alternatives have failed and strict conditions are met to avoid a greater evil. All right, so that's there's a whole second part of the paragraph. We're just working on the first part. So all peaceful alternatives, what does that mean? Does that mean engaging your enemy in conversation? Does that mean engaging your enemy in negotiations on how to deal with whatever the conflict is about? Can you work it out? Okay, so if we look at Ukraine and Russia, the Russians want that territory. The Ukrainians don't want any of their territory taken. So do they engage in,

8:19do they engage in talks about that? Do they negotiations? Well, should they negotiate the loss of their country for no reason if they had attacked Russia? That's one cannon of war, and I don't mean cannon, boom, I mean cannon like a rule of war, that if you start a conflict and you end up losing, well, to the victor goes to spoils. So if you start a war, a conflict and you lose, and in the course of you losing, my army moves on to your land, we get to keep that land because you started it. That's the penalty to you for starting a war, and it's accepted pretty much, it's accepted around the world. So if we look at the wars against Israel, the wars against Israel since 1948, we saw different armies attack Israel, and Israel fought back the Egyptians, fought back, and they attacked Israel, and Israel defended itself appropriately, and it was

9:23stronger, and it beat back the Egyptians, and therefore it took the Sinai Desert. That is now Israeli territory because the Egyptians started the war and lost. We look at the Golan Heights, the Syrians, and now I don't have all the players exactly right, but I know in general, in the Golan Heights, the Syrians, and several other Arab armies attacked Israel again, inappropriately. They acted defensively, and they kept the Golan Heights, right? These are how these things happen. So we're talking about peaceful alternatives. What's a peaceful alternative? Okay, you can have this piece of land, and the war will stop. When we saw Israel fighting with Hamas, and the concern was that they wanted a homeland. So what did Israel do in 2006? They said, okay, we will leave the Gaza Strip, and you can control it.

10:28Hamas and the Palestinian people, you can control the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Those are yours now. You govern them, and the Israelis not only left the army left, but they took all their settlements. They took all their people. They even took their graveyards and got out of there and turned that land over. Now, was that a negotiation? Yes. Was it to prevent a bigger war and to have peace? Yes. So the Israelis made a decision to give up some territory that they didn't have to give up, but they did it as an aim towards peace. And did that result in peace? No. What did Hamas do when they were elected? They're a terrorist organization. They elected to spend all the billions of dollars that the world sent to them to turn their land into a paradise. They decided to build terror tunnels and buy missiles and bombs and attack Israeli civilians and military.

11:30So again, the Israelis are attacked. Once you know, you understand the definition of a just war. Now you can start to compare facts to it. That's how you use a definition. So let's finish with this. So when all peaceful alternatives have failed, so that can be negotiating, that can be giving in, that can be anything that works towards trying to solve the problem without fighting. Have you done all you could? All right. And then the last part of this part of the paragraph and have failed and strict conditions are met to avoid a greater evil. So what would be a greater evil? So let's start out with the concept that we are reluctantly going to have to do this battle. It's a defensive action because we are threatened, right? Our people are threatened. We've tried to negotiate and to talk and to work out the problem. And that has failed. Our

12:32enemy is still threatening us. So we have to have strict conditions, though, in our response for a just war. To avoid a greater evil. So now we have to ask what would that be? What would the greater evil be? Now, as I'm saying this, I want you to compare both sides of any of the conflicts I'm talking about. All right. I'm not talking about any one particular conflict until we get to Iran and the United States. But until then, think about every other conflict that you can think of. All right. So let's look at this. And the efforts have failed and strict conditions have to be met to avoid a greater what would that greater evil be? That would be bombing civilian targets purposely. That would be firing missiles into a community that have cluster bomb effects where it's very indiscriminate that the missile coming down can't be shot down. Well, it can't be shot

13:33down. But if it's if you miss it and it comes down now, it deploys 10, 12, 15, 18 smaller bombs that go in many directions, often hitting civilian infrastructure, civilians, clusters of people. It's a cluster bomb. That's why most countries have backed out of using cluster bombs because it is so indiscriminate. So that would be avoiding a greater evil. How about lining up civilians and gunning them down if you capture them in this war? Would that be a greater evil than simply beating back your enemy's military and wiping out their leadership so that the war comes to an end? Isn't that a defensive position to wipe out the other team's leadership, wipe out their equipment, and then they come to the table to negotiate? So that kind of matches all those things in the initial part of what is a just war. All right. So now there's a second part

14:34of this paragraph. It requires a grave certain and lasting threat. All right. So this is what you have to have common at you. So the first part tells you what you should be doing. This is now defining how do you determine if this is bad enough for us to have a just war? It requires a grave certain and lasting threat. You have to have rightful authority to respond. You have to have a reasonable chance of success and you have to employ proportionality where the damage inflicted does not exceed the evil that's eliminated. Okay. So let's look at that again. It requires a grave certain and lasting threat, rightful authority, reasonable chance of success, and proportionality where the damage inflicted does not exceed the evil eliminated. So let's break those things down. All right. A grave certain and lasting threat that Nazis have declared

15:39war on your nation. Is that a grave threat? Is that certain? It is a lasting threat. Do you have the rightful authority to respond? Is there a reasonable chance of success? Now that's an interesting one. If you don't think you can fight back, should you then just surrender? So that's an interesting line that's in here. You have to have a reasonable chance of success for it to be a just war. I find that interesting. Proportionality, I can see that where you go in and you fight the military and the leadership of those who are coming after you and you knock them down to the point that they have to stop. That they have to stop. They can no longer wage war against you. You don't just then run through and carpet bomb all of their civilian population centers, their airports, everything, all their infrastructure, and knock them back to the Stone Age. That wouldn't be proportional. And it has to be where the damage inflicted does not exceed the evil that's

16:42eliminated. All right. So now we have this full definition. All right. We have the full definition and when you compare it, any time you get a definition of anything, we have to compare it now with a circumstance so that it makes sense. All right. Makes sense. So when I do a program on people in crisis, how to handle people in crisis and de-escalation, one of the first things I do is define what is a crisis. I had a crisis is a turning point in someone's life. It is when they're they're expected to have to deal with consequences. It's when things are out of their control. Right. And then you say, well, those are just words. But then you put a situation up against the definition and it becomes clear. So say your wife comes to you and says, I want a divorce and this hit you out of the blue. You had no idea. I've been having a fair and I want a divorce.

17:44Now that is a turning point in your life that you can you can find yourself in crisis there. Maybe you got involved in something at work in business and it was a little shady and now you got caught and you might go to jail. All right. That's when consequences can be faced. So you might be into crisis. So that's how you take a definition which is kind of like almost like a framework and then you apply situations to it to see if it matches. So here we are with a just war. All right. There's more definitions here that I'll run through these real quick because there's also conduct within a war during the war and then we'll go and we'll apply the Iranian American conflict to it and see where we are here. So a just cause. The war must be defensive aimed at protecting innocent life or essential rights against the last engraving certain danger. Okay. So the Iranians subjugate their own people first of all. They control their

18:48own people. It is a barbaric system of Sharia law that they have in place there. Okay. Well that's bad enough because they're doing that to their own people. That makes it incumbent on the people then to rise up like our forefathers did and fight back for your own freedom. Our people did that and died and in the struggle we won and we created the greatest country the world has ever known. But so the Iranians they're bothering their own people. Are they threatening us? Are they threatening the United States and Israel? Well I think the answer to that if you're not suffering Trump derangement syndrome is pretty clear. Of course they're suffering. Of course they're threatening us. They've been threatening us since 1979 when they stormed our embassy and took our people hostage and all the proxies that they pay out there they give money to to attack American interests and kill American personnel and do all the evil things that they do all around the world in the name of terrorism to create their Islamic caliphate. That's what they're out there trying to do

19:55and that's that's their purpose right but they're definitely absolutely attempting to take innocent life of Americans and other people right so that would be the just cause part. Legitimate authority the decision must be made by those entrusted with the common good not private groups or individuals right not one person or one group can say we think they should go to war you have to have authority so in our case it's the American government duly elected representatives of the people see this and that's that's in the form of the president of the United States who is specifically constitutionally charged with protecting the American people so yeah legal authority last resort all other means of peaceful resolution diplomacy negotiation sanctions have shown to be ineffective have we done that with Iran have we shown diplomacy have we tried to send diplomats have we tried to come up with deals have we tried to come up with negotiations with them

20:56have we put sanctions on them does that stop them from doing their evil and attacking and trying to build a nuclear bomb that they would no doubt drop on the head of many western countries Israel and the United States and Europe does no doubt about it and if you don't see that I have to say and I hate saying it like this because I don't mean to sound like this but if you don't see the threat that they are then you're either stupid or you're purposely not seeing it because politically you don't want to see it every president for the past five presidents has said Iran cannot have a nuclear war a nuclear weapon they cannot have it we cannot allow it Trump is the only one who has not kicked the can down the road because they are not 10 years away from getting a bomb or seven years away from creating a nuclear bomb they were weeks weeks away from creating a nuclear bomb which would change the power structure in the entire world

21:58right so now you start to see is this start to match some of these is this a grave threat yes it is nuclear bomb is in the hands of bloodthirsty psychotic religious-based leadership whose religion tells them they are to take over the world by the sword if you don't voluntarily give in so you start to put these all together you wow it's getting a little closer all right next one down is last resort all other peaceful means well we just covered that all of those things have failed good intention the aim must be to ultimately achieve peace and justice not to satisfy vengeance territorial greed or inflict punishment okay so let's break that down it should be to achieve peace and if we look at this if the Iranians had stopped and said okay we're going to give up our nuclear weapons the inspectors can come in whenever they want not when they show up go no you can't come today come back in three months no you can't come today

23:01but you can go look at this place they were hiding they were lying they were dancing around they were not intending in any way shape or form to not get a nuclear weapon and threaten the world with it all right so ours is to have peace not just for us but for the Middle East for Europe for the whole world America is taking on the responsibility once again to protect the world from destruction all right it can also not be just for revenge you know what they did to us in 79 they blew up our barracks in Lebanon they're their proxies they did this oh we're going to get them back okay this is not that this is putting an end to it we have been patient we have negotiate we have talked we have begged we have sent pallets full of money we have done sanctions we've done everything and they are not stopping there are relentless evil that at some point good must deal with and that's what we're doing all right so good intention is correct and it's not to just inflict punishment on them the proportionality the probability of success the use of arms must not

24:05produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated and there must be a reasonable hope of success so is there a hope that we can win yeah of course there is could we win faster if we send troops in yes but we would also then be starting a bigger different kind of conflict that nobody wants right now nobody wants that nobody wants our soldiers men and women on the ground in around dying in house to house fighting we don't want that but is there a pretty good chance we're going to win if we keep doing what we're doing yes we keep flying around with absolutely no restrictions and every time they light up a rocket we see it and blow up the launcher eventually they run out of launchers when the people come forward and give intelligence to to the undercover's and the people that are there because you know they're there and they start to tell them where the evil leaders are meeting where the equipment is hidden where the IGRC stuff is and we knock all that out yes our chances of getting ahead are are very very strong so when we look at all of these conditions for a just war and the definition of a just war

25:09this clearly meets every one of those standards of the Catholic Church now you might not be a Catholic you might not be a Christian you might not be a Muslim you might not be a Hindu you might not be any of the other kind of religion there you might be an atheist and you say I don't care I don't like war I don't like war okay nobody likes war nobody wants war is war is ugly war is horrible but just like in real human life there are often times that when evil comes after you you have no choice but to fight back well strike that let's let you know you can give into evil you can let evil take you over the Ukrainians can drop their weapons and come out and let Russia take over the whole country and take over Europe Europe can just give up let Russia rebuild its Soviet empire in the Middle East Israel can put down its weapons leave the country of Israel and scatter

26:09themselves across the globe once again they could do that the United States could allow Iran to get weapons threaten us and then blow us up one day we could we could do all that but we're not going to do that that would be utter foolishness stupidity and something that I can't even imagine when evil comes after you there's a time you have to stand up and fight back President Trump happens to be the man in the office at this particular time with the guts and the decision to do it whether you like war or not these are all for good reasons and we should all back our president we'll be back in a minute we'll see what else we're going to talk about today we're calling all patriots to Nashville Tennessee July 2nd 3rd and 4th for a powerful celebration of faith freedom and the American spirit America outlawed the wellness company and invite you to join us for the 250 10 Nashville event you'll experience best in class speakers

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30:26all right my friends welcome back to the human equation so by now i'm sure some of you are considering what we're talking about some of you have jumped on your own computers and you're looking up these definitions of a just war you're looking up the things that i've said to you and i think that's good because i'm not here to tell you what to think i'm here to offer some things to think about and then you can go and decide that's something you want to think about you know something you want to do do you want to do you want to look at things as they are or as you want them to be because that is going to determine how you see facts right what's the saying to someone who doesn't want to know the truth all the facts in the world don't matter right and that's don't we see that a lot we see a lot of that we see political correctness which tells us you have to ignore facts to achieve an outcome right the outcome we want it doesn't match

31:27it's not right we have to really bend rules we have to bend reality but we want the outcome we want so therefore we will ignore truth and we will get aimed to get what we want so we're talking about the concept of a just war and while i am looking at the Catholic Church definition because that's what i am Catholic i think just like the ten commandments whether you're an atheist or a religious believer of any kind of religion when you look at the things that the ten commandments tell us if you took religion away from them and just said are these a good set of rules to live by for a functioning society that interacts with itself appropriately that is fair and has justice you'd have to say yes you'd have to say yes because they're they're basic rules for good human interaction they happen to be based in religious form but you know take them away don't don't don't um don't

32:31bear false witness against your neighbor okay that's one of the ten commandments isn't that a good thing no don't lie about your neighbor don't testify don't make up stuff about your about your neighbor like say say you're in a political party right don't bear false witness that would be like saying you know oh trump colluded with the Russians and i have proof of it i have i have the smoking gun proof who's now who said that oh yeah Adam shift congressman Adam shift came out as he was part of the committee and he had absolute proof that trump colluded with Russia to steal the election in 2016 well do do we find out that that's true or is that untrue well we have found out in the course of time that it is untrue he did not have smoking gun proof because trump did not collude with Russia he was lying he was bearing false witness against another person in the face of everyone and that is the wouldn't be good thing if he didn't well if you're a political nut if

33:34you're a if you're a biased individual and you say i don't care what we have to do as long as we get trump lie about him cheat him whatever we got to do then again you know my exercise for all of you that think like this is go run and look in the bathroom look in your eyes and say to yourself why am i such an evil person that i would say that this is okay instead of doing that why don't you come up with better ideas for how things could go in our country present them in a way that people can understand them make sense and will actually work and then you know what everybody would vote for you and then you would be in power but instead we don't do that our political class and i'm not saying one side versus the other because both sides do it granted our friends on the left do it as a the modern incarnation of their party does it in every opportunity doesn't matter what it is they they do it in every opportunity um but both sides do it both politicians lie to get things done you ever noticed they don't answer a question uh were you at the party yesterday yes

34:39or no you know when it comes to celebrations no one's bigger on celebrations than me and i believe that serving food at celebrations isn't for they go on and on and on for 20 minutes they never answered a question it's fairly very simple were you at the party or not yes i was no i wasn't all right so when we look at the ten commandments through the eyes of the Catholic Church you can see that take away religion they're good ideas to live by so while we're looking at the idea of a just war here and i'm looking at it through the eyes of the Catholic Church i think these things make sense whether you're an atheist or Hindu or a Jew or a Muslim they all kind of make sense because they are common sense policy they are common sense thoughts of how to interact so we left off uh you know what is it just war and we were comparing the iranians and the conflict with the united states and with um with israel so when we look at those um when we look at those

35:46ideas of what a just war provides we know that the iranians what are they doing they're killing their own civilians so the question here then is is that good or is that evil well i would hope that you would say that's evil why are they killing civilians in the street now the reports are up to 30,000 35,000 people protesters who are against the maniacal uh islamist government that wants to control their lives do you think that killing those civilians in the street that are protesting that is right or wrong well if you think it's wrong then that's to me that's kind of common sense decent way of looking at it if you say uh it's right then run to that mirror and take a look as you are an evil person but you're the same person that would turn around and say they killed 30,000 people and they're just trying to maintain their power and they're the legitimate

36:50government and they hate trump to so i'm for them but then you turn around and look at minnesota where two individuals who were killed by government action isis government entity by uh government entity and you'd say the entire government is wrong the whole government should be brought down well you don't say that about the iranians how come because if the iranians fall then trump looks good and you can't have that so it's better there be 30,000 dead people in the streets of Iran than for you to say trump's doing the right thing and while war is difficult and horrible and ugly sometimes it is necessary and trump is doing the right thing he's not kicking it down the road for other generations to have to deal with okay so i'm just trying to make common sense here out of these things all right so what will we talking about we're uh we're going down the road here i'm going to say what are what are what is conduct within a just war what could you do so

37:50some of the definitions they gave us is it has to be proportional right you have to have legitimate authority if they've just caused to do it it has to be a uh ongoing grave danger that you can't solve any other way and then you can go to war all right so what happens once that war starts once the war begins what should you do okay so should you should you use civilians as shields should you take your weapons your ammunition all of those things and should you store them in buildings where children go to school should you store them in hospitals where injured people are brought so they can get medical care should you fire your rockets against the civilian populations of your enemy from the rooftops or the surrounding parking lots of schools where children go and where you store your ammunition and weapons should you do that is that right or wrong

38:55it's another question let's is that right or wrong should you do that you're a military of a foreign country and you are going to fight your neighbor should you use your people as human shields so that when the enemy fires back at you for shooting at them and hits the building where you've been shooting from or housing your ammunition some of your civilians are going to be killed and then you can parade their dead bodies around and say look what our enemy did hit a school look what our enemy did hit a hospital do you think that's appropriate what do you think you should keep your military on a military base and fight military to military and leave the civilians out of it right okay it's an easy answer i'm giving you a minute to think about it the right thing to do would be not to store your munitions in schools hospitals and religious facilities where you're going to then proactively attack your enemy so that when your enemy fires back they kill innocent civilians

39:58that's your fault for doing that right and you're doing it purposefully so that you can show dead bodies of your people and blame your enemy who would do that well israel israel does that no israel does not do that do they the United States does that no United States doesn't do that who does that oh Hamas does that Iran does that oh i see that's who's doing that so for everyone marching around who says oh israel is so bad so horrible just wants to kill people kill innocent people it's not true and you're making things up now does that mean that there is not collateral damage there is collateral damage is some of the saddest and most horrific parts of any kind of an armed conflict between countries when innocent civilians are accidentally involved in the combat that i can't think of anything that's worth

41:00whether it be a a a family from from gaza a palestinian family or a child or anyone that's a a civilian that gets caught up in the military conflict that's horrible it's a terrible loss of life it's painful for all of humanity when that happens and it should be avoided at all costs but we have to look honestly not just because you hate Trump and therefore the palestinians are good because you hate to choose and therefore the palestinians are good you have to look at the real real conflict right the real conflict it's one thing to say they're going to fight back military to military okay there's a there's a there's a just theory the just theory of the war should you start the war you know look at all our criterion i just hate to choose i want to blow them up and get them out of Israel because i think it's my land if that's your legitimate position okay you take that position you fight military to military you start attacking civilians you start attacking crossing a border and killing 1200 people at a

42:06concert murdering raping destroyer killing babies and women and children when you're looking in that mirror if you're saying that that was legitimate you are evil my friend you are evil and bad okay i get a conflict legitimate conflict between two governments that disagree on a border or disagree on something going on there's right conflicts and wrong conflicts killing civilians purposely the Israelis don't do that they do not do that purposely okay so let's look at some of the conflicts during the combat non combat and immunity civilians prisoners are wars and the wounded must be treated humanely and never targeted that seems pretty deep let's look at that civilians these are people who are not in the military prisoners of war of either side and the wounded must be treated humanely and never targeted now doesn't that make sense

43:11now some people can argue with the prisoners of war okay if you have 20,000 prisoners in a prison camp and you captured them on the battlefield and you know the minute you let them go they're going to get pick up weapons and start killing your people you could maybe i don't know that i would but you could maybe make a case that hey wiping them out would prevent them from coming back would that be justifiable are they do they go to the go to the um go to the definitions do they pose a direct threat is it there anything you can do to talk them out of it is there any way you can negotiate with them not to come back and fight with you now the problem with that is targeting people without weapons in their hands that are stuck inside a building not of their own choosing right it's not like the Iranian command getting together to have a meeting to figure out how to blow you up and boss them in New York but these are prisoners that have they can't escape they can't leave they

44:13can't change your mind and you blow that up i'm gonna say that's not right that's probably not the thing to do you have to find an alternative to doing that keep them in prison put them on a prison ship keep them off the battlefield yeah that's probably a better it's probably a better way to go right so we can talk our way through it so let's look and see when Hamas is going to run over to the little villages uh in Israel when they're going to attack a concert of thousands of young people just trying to enjoy their lives when they're going to take little babies and mothers and fathers and gun them down in their own homes burn their homes that cut their heads rape them when they're going to do that um does that meet that criteria that non combatants civilians should never be targeted no it doesn't it doesn't um did they did they launch uh some kind of uh an aerial device uh before their attack that dropped thousands of leaflets in those little villages

45:17that say hey we hate you and we're gonna come and attack you at six o'clock in the morning uh so you want to be out of the area when we get there do they do that does Hamas do that does Hasbola do that does Iran do that no they don't who does that who who would give notice that they're going to attack a particular area in the middle of a conflict who does that oh yeah the Israelis do that they drop leaflets that tell people we're going to be attacking this area because there's a military asset in the middle of your schools and and uh religious facilities and we're attacking it tomorrow at 10 o'clock you should be out of here so you don't get hurt isn't that following that uh concept of non combatant immunity they must never be targeted you're giving them time to get out of there so you can attack the military target who does that is your real does that you know the people you hate you know they do that uh interesting uh what's another one

46:18prohibition prohibition of indiscriminate destruction any act of war aim that the total destruction of cities or vast areas is considered a crime against god and man okay so this would be the the carpet bombing of the community once the Iranian government is out of control completely and then we're going to teach them a lesson we're going to carpet bomb everything to destroy their civilization and wipe out their city now this tells you right here that's a crime against god and man now that's a religious kind of a look at it but even if you're not religious isn't that terrible so let's say let's say your enemy your enemy has um an infrastructure that provides their country with funds with money so that they can take care of their people feed their people pay for their infrastructure water housing all that kind of stuff say you have something like that and for no reason other than to punish you or to do uh some other negative attack

47:26an indiscriminate destruction because you can like say i don't know wiping out the Iranian oil fields wiping out the one asset that provides that country with income with which could be used to take care of its people now here we are the Americans fighting clearly a just war against the Iranian mullahs and the Iranian regime that's there that threatens the whole world the particular American and uh israel and they are going in wiping out military targets they are wiping out military infrastructure they are wiping out military equipment they are wiping out the military personnel and the leadership the purpose being to render them peaceful so that they can't hurt them their own people or anyone else in the world now here's the entire infrastructure that could pay for that country to rebuild in a better way to survive to provide food medicine

48:27everything else that country needs it's their sole source of income pretty much and has Donald Trump gone over there and wiped it all out because they're still pushing oil out right they're still selling oil even though they're not supposed to they're still getting money for their battle and has trump in the american army decided to go over and just level it so they have nothing then you starve them out you destroy it but wouldn't that wouldn't that hurt the general population as well so we're not doing it are we threatening it we are we are now what's the purpose of threatening it the purpose of threatening it is so that the people are enraged not at the united states but at their own government that already subjugates them and keeps them down and attacks them and murders them because if that infrastructure is destroyed they will have no income after the evil regime is removed now is there come a time when you may have to do that

49:27then it becomes a legitimate target of war yes yes it does because when we look at the battle against evil proportionality and the just war theory certainly can be ratcheted up based on what why would you ratchet up and include things that weren't included before in your attack plan well very clearly it is based on the response of the evil government that you're fighting if they do not can if they continue to shoot missiles cluster bombs into civilian populations if they continue to attack the ships that are trying to move supplies through through the waterways with the purpose of shutting down the governments and impoverishing the whole world that you're fighting against now at some point you need to up the ante to bring it to an end for what purpose

50:30go back to the just war to create peace now that that doesn't seem like that's that sounds counterintuitive but let's look at some of the horrors that happened in world war two and why they were undertaken so here we had the Japanese imperial government attacking the world raping destroying burning and taking over they attacked the United States they did horrific things to our soldiers they that have been documented they did horrific things as part of the Axis powers the Germans had done the same thing they attacked the Jewish population they attacked cities destroyed burned everything and at some point there's a concept that you whether you like it or not if it's not within your grasp then you have to understand you have to try and think harder is you have to sometimes break the will of the enemy you have to make them so tired of fighting

51:32that they give up or surrender so therefore there are times when you may have to take actions abhorrent as they are but will eventually bring peace because they are so destructive that means you go after infrastructure because the people need to rise up against the government that's that's there and tell them to stop even if it means they're on debt that's what you have to do you want to stop this war right against human nature to run into guns I get it that's why the Iranian people are not pouring out into the streets to find the IGRC because they don't have any weapons and the IGRC will murder them as they've shown us they will do so it's kind of understandable they're afraid to run into the street but they might come to a point that they better decide that you know they may have to do that every people to to gain its freedom must at some point sacrifice lots of people that's that's part of the you know the the blood of the fruit of liberty tree you know and all that that's what these concepts where they come from

52:33so when we look at this and we say what about the fire bombing of Dresden? horrible horrible thing to fire bomb population centers the purpose being to break the will of the people to fight anymore to stop them dropping nuclear bombs on Japan to break the will of the people who would die to the last man and woman in the battle so if our troops had gone to the main islands of Japan to fight we would have lost a million more Americans many of you sitting out there listening right now may not be here because your grandfather would have got killed fighting in Japan but instead we used overwhelming power to break their will to show them it is fruitless to continue you should stop this battle right and we dropped a nuclear bomb horrific terrible but unfortunately in the battle against evil sometimes you have to take it take it as far as you

53:41possibly can to win it's either that or you allow evil to vanquish you and in either case it's not good so there comes a point when we have to fight back and what we're doing right now is fighting back not because there's 10 years until they could hurt us you know three weeks ago into negotiations that our president was having with the Iranians their delegation told us that they had enough material to make 12 nuclear bombs within a couple of weeks that's not 10 years from now that's not 15 years and that's not some nebulous day in the future when they maybe might be able to get us they were talking two weeks and if you don't think if they could have put it together in two weeks they would have then again I can only come to the conclusion that you're either stupid

54:41or you're purposely not seeing the truth because you have trump derangement syndrome if this was Barack Obama doing this if he had the guts to do this you'd be in support of it you know you would have Biden had done it you'd be in support of it but trump's doing it therefore you have got to be against it again run to that mirror don't walk run whatever you have to do and open your eyes and look in there and go why why do why do why do I suffer from this this trump derangement syndrome let me look and see would would we would we the whole world with the whole world be better if the tyrannical Islamic government of Iran is removed would their people be better off would their neighbors be better off would israeli be better off would the united states be better off well how can you not say yes because again stunad or you don't want to see the truth or I guess

55:43the third term is that you're evil and you believe in that kind of thing all right so when we look at all of these kind of conflicts is it a just war is it not a just war is it good to fight not good to fight now nobody wants any Americans to die I don't want any of these beloved men and women who volunteered to protect us to die on a battlefield nobody wants to lose their child their mother their father sister brother nobody wants that to happen it's unfortunate that there's evil in the world and because there's evil in the world at some point you have got to fight the evil and the men and women of our military are amazing human beings who volunteered to protect us so therefore we should support them in every single way whether you agree with the conflict or not you should support the military and for all our Vietnam veterans out there hey welcome home right why do I say that because we didn't welcome them when they came back it's another time we

56:43made a big mistake like that all right my friends think about it pray on it we cannot allow an evil dangerous country to have a nuclear bomb and threaten all of us because you know they will use it we'll see you down the road think about it