Junior Mining Stock Ghosts, PDAC Sentiment & Canada Funds Miners with Bill Powers & Brian Leni

0:00You are listening to Mining Stock Education. So, Brian, I came up with three different categories of what I'll turn junior mining ghosts, and this is subject to change, even as I come up with my own paradigms and understandings. The double ghosts are very hard, and that individual is particularly good at leaving no trace behind. Thanks for tuning in to Mining Stock Education, and in today's show you're going to hear from my friend Brian Lenny and I, co-hosts of the show, regarding our thoughts on the last month of junior mining investing with a particular North American focus. We were just at PDAC in Toronto the past two days, and I had some international listeners come up to me and shake my hand, so we appreciate the listenership, and one of the questions Brian that I asked was, as someone across the ocean listening to the show, do you still find relevance in what we talk about with the North American focus, and the answer was

1:01yes, because we deal a lot with process, not just specific names. You were at Metals Investor Forum two days before PDAC, and what was your vibe and thoughts in reflecting upon the sentiment at MIF, or Metals Investor Forum? It was great. It was a lot along the lines of January, I would say. I think the venue in particular is a little bit smaller than the pack room, and so it invariably feels a little bit different, which is where the Vancouver MIF is held just for those that don't know. Sorry, that's right. So I would just say it feels a little bit different, but the vibe, especially on the Saturday, the day before PDAC started, you could see that there was definitely an uptick in the people that were coming through, and there was a lot of the biggest takeaway for me was the amount of deal-talking from the corporates or the company side of things.

2:03There was a lot of companies there that I recognized that are sort of in my network that were there to talk about, project generation, to talk about new things that were going on with the companies, and you do not see that very often. I think, given where we are in the market, given the proximity to PDAC or PDAC, I would say it would be arguably the biggest venue or time of the year for deals to be done right before that drill season, or just geological mapping season, however you want to look at it, would be the biggest event, and these guys were in full force at Metal's Investors Forum. And really, so Metal's Investors Forum is held at the Delta, which is right beside the Convention Center. And so whether it was on the third floor where the conference was or the mezzanine below or really in the lobby, I was going up and down having my own meetings. You saw a lot of chatter and a lot of people that you don't normally see at those kinds of events, and they're obviously, I talked to a few of them, they're obviously talking

3:05about new deals and trying to make new deals, and that's a really good sign for the sector and where we're going, and sort of regardless of what it may or may not mean of where we are in the cycle, new deals and a steady stream of cash into the sector is a really good thing, especially on the exploration front. That's really what's been missing probably over the last decade is a strong push on the exploration front. And if you look at the way this world is setting up, both in the precious metal side of things, and probably even more importantly given what's going on in the world right now, the critical minerals are critical metals, rares, however you want to sort of frame that, more focus, more emphasis on the importance of mining, and probably on the secondary refinement are really good things, and that seems to be all in full force. So I attended a panel in a session about the resurgence of not only Canadian mining,

4:06but Canadian processing. And one of the things that were discussed on the panel was particularly between Ottawa and Northern Quebec, having kind of like a hub of processing 20,000 tons per day was what was thrown out to where different companies could actually use that to where they would build out the infrastructure, a partnership between government and private entities. And with all of the deposits there, I believe you said there was like 15 to 20 different quality projects in that range that could be considered for use of this processing facility versus just building their own processing facility at site. So of course, this is just the ideas its politicians interviewing in this panel, mining CEOs. And this is the idea stage, but I'll tell you as an American listening to, I was kind of, I like to hear like the Canadian pride in the Canadian. Let's pick ourselves up by the bootstraps. Let's make Canada number one in mining again.

5:07Will it come to pass? I don't know, but I then listened to the mines and energy minister talk. And then he brought probably like, I don't know, 15 companies up on stage and signed agreements with them and gave away grants to a bunch of different junior mining companies. So there seems to be some desire and initiative to really make a difference. We'll see what the follow through is like. You're a skeptical libertarian. So without bashing your politicians too much, do you have any response to what I'm sharing? Well, I guess, I like, you're prefacing it for me. I view that highly of high skepticism, just given the history of, of not only Canadian politics, but politics in general across the world. I think that, you know, it's a skeptical, it's opposed to sort of bring hope and intrigue to people viewing and, you know, that's exactly why they did it the way they did it. Now that aside, we've dug ourselves in Canada, especially in a huge hole.

6:11We have a huge reliance on the states and that relationship is as tenuous as it probably has ever been. So we really don't have a choice. And if you leave it up to the market, which is the proper thing to do, given where we're headed, given everything that's going on in the world, you know, you probably don't have the timeline because the, you know, the market's rightly going to decide, given with the laws, given the structure of a lot of the provincial stuff or trade within provinces that, you know, you probably want to stay away from Canada in a lot of ways. And so the government probably does have to step in, although I think it is not in the best interest of the people in general, because there's going to be a lot of waste. But at this point, there's, there's really no other choice. So those, those sorts of things you're talking about are probably you may have to be done. And I'll fully believe it when I see it when you start breaking the ground and actually building these things and go back, you know, you know, being on St. Lawrence, being able to feed, whether it's the states or Europe is, is really important and that should

7:18be on the docket for, for someone to develop, you know, given, given the need for stuff like lithium for copper, I guess precious metals to a certain degree, but those critical minerals are really what we're all talking about. And so if it comes to fruition, you know, it's a, it's a great thing, although I, I am of course skeptical on the, their ability to execute and more importantly, pick the right companies and projects to support. And there was no mention of the US that I recall and there were European investment bank representatives there and EU representatives there that signed some sort of memorandum of understanding, shook hands, took pictures, basically saying Canada wants to do business with the EU in terms of the minerals that Canada has. Right. Right. And that's, that's the, the obvious signing that, you know, given what's happened with the states that, that's the way that we're going to go. And again, I think it's, it's political theater in a lot of ways were completely tied to

8:18our relationship with the states, like it or not. And, and so it, it, me personally, I would be, and I'm, again, I'm a libertarian, but I'd be working on that relationship with our closest neighbor, the closest neighbor we've had for a long time. And people don't necessarily like to hear that because they have problems with the people in charge, but this has nothing to do with that. This is all about the, what's realistically feasible. And to me, the, the biggest place where we should be trying to, to sell to is the US and making sure that relationship is. And again, I'm libertarian, not necessarily focusing on left or right, but that's the way, the way I see it. So whether we agree with government funding, private industry or not, you can still make money when you recognize a pattern as a speculator. So it, for example, in the states, when you identified, as I did last year, New York Stock Exchange or Nasdaq treated companies that are likely or being told that they're probably going to get approved for a department of war grant.

9:21And when that happened, I can think of three examples, the, the shares just skyrocketed. So translating that back to what I'm saying, where the Canadian government is saying we are going to help fund, we are going to help expedite permits. Does any of that political speech or stated initiative influence the way you speculate at all? Regardless of your political. Yeah, no, no, no, 100%, 100%, it doesn't mean I would buy a bad company because of it. It positively 100% or negatively 100% 100% it affects the way I place money. Okay. And what I'm saying is I wouldn't, if I think the company is, is not good and the government is going to support it, that does not mean that I would put money into it. What it means is if I've, if I'm already looking at a company or if I already own a company and I'll use the example because the one, I'm invested in search copper and I've, I've already said that publicly and they've presented with me at metals investors reform. So it's not, it's not not out there. But when they were added to the BC critical minerals office, the share price moved up significantly.

10:28And I think it, as right, it should. And North Island was added in that and defense metals was added in that too. I think that that specifically does nothing to do with BC, but I think that when they identify projects and they're on that specific, you know, they're only naming three and they have PX, you know, former MSE sponsor was named, I think the year prior. So two years ago to that critical minerals office and they were one of two. So when it's that specific and I, especially when I am already invested or maybe I'm looking at something, that is a reason that I would have top on my list because if the government is fully supporting it and these guys I already know are good, that's a huge validation check mark because one thing as an investor in the research sector, you're sort of always trying to discern is whether this project's actually viable. Will it be able to go through the permitting process? Does it have the economics that it's going to be able to sort of wade through the water of not necessarily needing $7 copper or, you know, the not needing necessarily $5,000 gold

11:33or $20 nickel to work? And so when you have these sort of validation points, you have good management that have the relationships with the first nations that have those different things all in the line. It's a huge validation factor for me and so it makes me more comfortable with putting the position up closer to that sort of 10% mark and it also gives me more credence to the theory that these things are actually going to be something in the future. And I think when you parlay that into the M&A market, we're going to go into. I think at some point, with precious metals and across the base metal sector, I think things like those, those matter even more, you know, those senior mining companies want to have as many de-risking moments as possible. And it makes them more confident in that they're buying something that's going to, they're going to be able to get across the line. So yeah, like 100% is a big factor. It's not the factor that I would solely buy a company for. It's more of that supporting point and it wouldn't be something that I would take by

12:37a mediocre asset or something that I think is poorly managed. It would not enter my portfolio just because of it. The discussion point that came up in a conversation was, why is day two of the PDAC investor exchange where you have all of these companies presented? Why did it feel like it was busier shoulder to shoulder more packed out than day one, which is on a Sunday where you traditionally would get more retail coming going both to booth. Was that your perception too? And do you have any insight on that? Yeah, actually, I think after sort of experience that and, you know, in preparation for this show, the things that I was thinking about, it actually parlays back, I think, to what I said about metals investors for them, the observation that there was a lot of outside companies that you don't normally see at the smaller conferences there, you know, doing deals or talking about doing a deal. And so my interpretation of what we saw there is this is that the retail crowd or the

13:38generalist investor is still kind of not there. And then on the other side of things, there's a lot of deals that are happening in and amongst industry people. And so you're seeing a flood of corporates, executives down on the floor looking for new deals, looking to place money, you know, a variety of things. And so that's why I think the second day was stronger than the Sunday. That's the only kind of thing I can come up with in my head that makes plausible sense. And I don't necessarily think it's, you know, positive or negative. I think it's just indicative of sort of where we are. And I'll just parlay this to myself. So obviously I'm a newsletter writer. January was basically a record month in terms of number of subscriptions sold. And in looking at that, I would say that, you know, that is kind of proof in the pudding that we're obviously in a bull market. But also when you dig one step closer and I was just looking at how it broke down, I also saw, you know, more of a swing towards the US investor than I did sort of anywhere

14:45else around the world for where they usually come from. And I just thought that was sort of interesting. And I'm not, again, I'm not even really sure what that necessarily means. But when you mix that in with some of the questions that I've got, I would say there definitely is sort of a swing happening at least in the States where, you know, a portion of people are coming from tech, coming from crypto, coming from maybe the general broader market and starting to look at why gold is at $5,000 per ounce and how they can sort of take advantage of that. And that's a momentum move. And but it's interesting and it probably does parlay into, you know, maybe even showing where we are as Canadians in terms of retail investors and maybe the state of the Canadian economy where maybe the Canadian retail investor is a little bit more downtrodden than they're kind of part in the US. So I'll share this rumor and for listeners, you know, you should take what I'm about

15:45to say with a grain of salt, but Brian, I had a conversation with somebody that is pretty well connected and they told me that there was a European central banker that told them that the place to be is in Canadian small cap mining stocks. And that according to this person that told me this, you know, two people removed, I've no way to verify this. But they said it's Canadian small caps and this person said, I put $6 million in Canadian small caps. So for whatever that's worth, don't believe it, but that's what I was told, any reflections on that? I would believe it. Or at least I want to believe it, Brian, I think that, you know, the ilk of the person that would that you've described would certainly understand the state of the world and the state of the monetary system probably fairly well. And so to me, it seems completely realistic that they would have a pretty good view of where money needs to be pushed.

16:46And then, of course, we have days like the day that we're recording this and the we're seeing a correction across the market. And so, you know, whether that's to do with war, whether that's to be, you know, this is just another dip like after in January, you know, time will always tell. But yeah, I tend to agree that there's, this is the place to be moving forward in that, especially on the, the precious metals side, given where the economics and the financials are sort of headed in the behavior of governments that we should see sustained prices into the future or higher sustained higher prices. And to me, I would, I guess, and I don't know if you were part of the conversation I had at one of the dinners, but I do think that this is more likely around a floor or a base in this bull market than it is a top. So that would be my guess. I've been wondering though over the last month has investor psychology been hurt a little because in January, like the third, third and a half week into January, it was the

17:51precious metals were going up like a rocket ship. And then there was that correction. Did you feel like that has shattered or shaken some retail sentiment though, even as you're getting new sub signing up? It seemed to me, my perception might not be fully well rounded in that regard, but what is your take on that? Yeah, I'm sure it is. I'm sure it is, but that's, that has to do with, I think it has to do with the number of things. I think generally speaking, that's all the way, that's always the way the market is going to work. And euphoria can be destroyed or doubt can creep into an investor's mind quite quickly if their baseline thesis is wishy washy. And what I think that happens is when you have momentum investors, when you're making a decision over a weekend that you're going to take your portfolio, crypto is not going to work anymore. And then you're moving it into junior money companies, you know, I don't think you

18:54have the same base that you or I do where we've been investing in this for, you know, well over a decade. And we're our basis for investing or especially on the precious metal side is something that's ingrained and something we've lived and believed in for a long time. And so, you know, I think it's much easier for us to maintain a level head in these markets when you have ups and downs because we've been through it before and we sort of understand what the thesis is all about. Whereas in a momentum trader or however they're viewing it, their emotions whips off, you know, back and forth. And that's really what creates opportunity for investors again that understand what they're investing in, understand maybe the broader view of the sector and the themes. And understand that volatility at least in this period of time is probably going to be the norm rather than the exception. And volatility can either be major friend or it can be an enemy.

19:56And again, it's all about psychology. And again, if you don't have the grounding on why you're in the sector and what you're looking for in the companies you're invested in, man, you're probably going to be sent through the ringer in terms of where this thing is going to go up and down, moving forward. At least for the foreseeable future that I can see, I don't see any reason why the market settles down, you know, war in the Middle East, financial markets, you know, crazy with the US market sort of taking a broader market step back with, you know, whether it's the US in Canada or the US in the state or the European Union or whatever, there's even infighting amongst allies, you know, what a crazy time to be living. And I would say that yeah, you need to have your head on and understand what you're investing in, that'll help you with the emotional ebbs and flows that you're going to feel. And you know, it's opportunity to me, you know, that's what I see. When things sell off, I want to be a buyer.

20:59So a quote that I got from a very high net worth wealthy person that have been in the sector for quite a while, they said the junior mining sector is the best place to be for a rich individual to multiply wealth by buying at a cyclical bottom. And so one of my strategies for attending the conference and having some meetings in Toronto Brian, I wanted to learn from some high net worth people via one-on-one meetings that have been in the sector a while and just kind of pick their brain as to their process. Not just for stockpicks for today, but I'm taking a more multi-cyclical view to where even though this is a bull market, what can I learn about myself and about the industry and the best way to make money from smart people in this cycle so I can utilize that to deploy capital at the bottom of the coming bottom and whatever cyclical metal we might look at. And so this person was sharing that that these companies, good deposits and even good management

22:00teams that can be deprived of capital investor sentiment. You just mentioned some of those swings can get so low that the valuations get so out of whack that you can deploy a significant amount of money at that time and do phenomenally well. Interesting thing is I had two people that take advantage of this that I talked to and both of them prefer to buy in the open market and I'm lifting that up for retail investors that say, you know, I don't get the cheap shares. I don't get the backroom deals and not in the room or close to the deals. I don't get to have the free trading shares when the $3 million promotion hits so that I could sell into that liquidity and the lift that is created thereof. Both of these gentlemen Brian told me that they don't play the founders cheap share games and oftentimes they don't even want to be known by management. So what they utilize and as the gentleman, one of the gentlemen was telling me his process

23:03and was telling me the value of some of his positions which were in the seven figure, high seven figure and eight figure range, he said when I was clarified that that was and he didn't mind me asking because I said, I even said, do you mind me asking these specific questions because you know, I never asked him those questions before but he didn't he didn't mind. So I clarified and then so I kept asking questions and then so to one of the gentlemen, I said, so your process, if I'm understanding you correctly, like 80% of your process before you deploy capital comes from your, I'll just say your institutional knowledge of the sector, what by that, I mean your understanding of geological trends, your understanding of who was successful, who was not successful, your understanding of who was behind the deals that succeeded, who was behind the deals that failed, good projects that were left because the cycle peaked out

24:07and nobody could raise money to further that project anymore, your understanding of different management teams and their strengths, your ability to recognize a good project that was abandoned but now is under the ownership and the leadership of a good management team at a cyclical bottom. So all of this multi decade historical knowledge this gentleman would bring to identify value and then I was asking questions to say, do you go to management then and talk in an interesting strategy, even when deploying what I would consider as a large sum of money is that he would often go to a smart person close to the story that is one step removed from the CEO and so that is one strategy that some of these ultra high net worth people utilize to make money in the sector because he didn't want to fund the company, but he wanted to participate a couple steps removed as what will term a ghost, someone that can come and go in and out of these companies without

25:11meeting that 9.9 percent above threshold doesn't have to report, doesn't have management asking him for money, he stays on top of the company and its progress and can buy what he wants, can sell what he wants. So as I was reflecting on all of this, I came up with some preliminary notes and categorizations and someone could be listening and saying, Bill, you know tell us a company to buy or can you talk specifics, what we're doing here now, okay, 10 years ago, I didn't know anything of what I'm telling you. So take what we're sharing and just look at as a skeleton and then your experience as you start to get more into junior mining speculation as you attend conferences, as you listen to people on the internet such as you're listening to us, as you go to conferences and talk to executives and investors yourself, that'll be the flesh and the tendons that you put on a skeleton. So I'm throwing out an idea so you can understand a little bit of how the

26:13sausage is made behind the scenes because you haven't been to the factory maybe, but the way how people make money and how the whole ecosystem of junior mining stocks, what I'm sharing with you is part of that and that could help inform some of your understanding of how the sector actually works. So Brian, I came up with three different category of what I'll term junior mining ghost and this is subject to change even as I come up with my own paradigms and understandings. The first one I'll call a purist that they leave no trace, their hands off, just like I described, they don't finance, they're a step removed from the executives and they don't even want to be close to the executives, all right. The second one I'll call an apparitionist, an apparition of course is the appearance of a ghost and so they might periodically make an appearance when a crisis necessitates. And for one of the gentlemen I talked to when I was in Toronto, that could be

27:15in the form of voicing displeasure with management, perhaps even in the form of an ultimatum that unless you turn the ship around, unless you change these things, I will be going activists on you to try to change management so that the value can be extracted from this project on behalf of all shareholders. So there's that appearance when necessary to where things get so out of whack or moving in the direction to such a degree that I'm not happy anymore and I own a lot of this company. So I'm going to appear out of my silence and out of my leaving no trace and I'm going to make my presence known. If things correct, maybe I'll go back into the background. And the third one, if you remember from Pinocchio, that old Disney cartoon that we watched when we were kids, at least I did, Gepetto or Gepetto, who made Pinocchio and then he had the strings of the puppet

28:16and he would basically move. So there's some ghosts and I've met some of these. I didn't, one in particular, I'm thinking of that I didn't meet this time in Toronto, but I've met in the past to where they're behind the scene pulling strings and they actively use proxies. A lot of times these proxies will be people that will help market the stock or they're talking to the CEO in giving direction because they've already injected capital. Perhaps they're willing to inject more capital, but they're going to do so when the strings that they want pulled are pulled. So they're actively doing things behind the scenes. So those are my three categories. I know I talked for a while in that, Brian, your thoughts. Yeah, I think it's super interesting. And like I obviously, and we've sort of touched on it in previous, but yeah, there's a number of different ways things happen in the sector. And I would say that it's, it's probably

29:18the exact opposite how I operate or have operated. And so for me, other than information, I'm not sure how I can use that to any advantage besides understanding if I know people, certain people are in positions. I know how that company is basically operating. The double ghosts are very hard. That individual is particularly good at leaving no trace behind. And so that is what it is. And considering the integrity of who I think that is, that's usually only a plus if they're in that company. Some of the other guys that I think you want to be sort of careful, like who's pulling the strings. And again, I hate being so vague with people. But again, that's something that that's learned sort of how things work, how different groups work and interact with each other. And again, that's one of those points I think comes with experience. I think, you know, educating that those things are there,

30:23that those people are there is very good. But I don't know if people can necessarily fully grasp that without being sort of engrossed or had enough time in the sector to sort of see it. But what do you get? So you've categorized these. I think you've done a very good job by categorizing these. How are you going to use that in any way? I am because like, so for example, from, is it Capetto or Jepetto? How do you pronounce it? I say Jepetto, but I don't. Jepetto. Okay. So when I see a Jepetto, and then when I learn some of the proxies, and I see that whole behind the scenes trying to make this to happen, if I can identify that at the beginning stages, I can likely invest and get part of that lift. Also, with some of the ghosts, you may not want to be associated with them. And you can perhaps learn of some of those conversationally by going out to dinner. As you've taught me, people drink

31:25a little too much. They let their mouth slip. They tell you about the last deal that they were in when so and so, you know, did them over, told them one thing and did another and sold out when we were supposed to finance together. And you learn all these little tidbits. And then that can help you just when you're having a conversation. And you say, who are some of your key shareholders and how long have they been in the story? So there may not be like a direct action step, especially for retail investors listening to us have this conversation. But it's once you become aware of how everything actually operates, you just have a better idea of what to look out for. And where you are, when you're buying a share in the open market, and you understand, let me give you this example. And Brian, you know this one because I went to you when it was brought up to me. But 18 months ago, there was a junior in which the previous management team had not done that good. There was some prospectivity with the project. A new management group came in. And they were

32:30actively seeking to finance and promote the story. Now, there's three things that make a junior mining stock go up. One is macro. And that has to do with is there risk on sentiment? What is the price of the underlying commodity? That alone can move a junior a lot. The second is marketing. When people go out and tell the story of an illiquid junior, and if they do it compellingly, that's likely going to bring in more buying. When you effectively market, that creates the perception of value, whether it's real or it's actual or perceived one can debate, but good marketing will create a perception of value. All of that, when all that momentum builds, that can cause a share price to go up. So when this group came into this little junior, the junior is up 500% over the last 18 months. And you could look at it and you could say, did it did so much occur at the project level that it warns that no, because they financed it and they marketed it well. And that alone produce

33:36a 500% return. So when you see people like that come into the story, if you buy low, recognizing that you can do really well. Now, one of the big names that was a catalyst, Brian, behind all of this, I could point back, and this is where this this historical knowledge comes in. I'm doing this on purpose because I was around four or five years ago when the same individual was named in a presentation of a certain junior resource stock and that stock did nothing but go down literally from the IPO. Here's the difference. In that story, there were some promoters that gave themself cheap shares that basically brought in that name, probably more so from a marketing standpoint, but the big name was not the driver behind that story. The difference is the story that I mentioned that's a 500% that name is actually in control directing the ship and making things

34:37happen versus just investing because somebody asked them to invest. So even recognizing that nuance of difference, one at the IPO did nothing but go down. This one from the reset of the company and the marketing and the financing is done nothing but go up in the last 18 months. Do you want to say something right or object to object to something I said? No, no, no, no. No, it's just you know what? It's it's quite interesting because yeah, you said that very well and I think people should pay attention to what you said because that certainly is a way to make money in this sector. I'll just tell you my perspective and my experience with sort of doing this and I think it I'm sort of giving you a play on my own psychology and and and whatever, but I've I've certainly thought the same thing and I've seen different things going on and thought to myself, oh you know what? This is this is probably a good setup

35:39even though I don't like management, I don't like the project, don't like the company, but you know considering who's pulling those strings and where the marketing is going, I think I can make some money. And the problem was that or what I've noticed about myself is that when I am not when I haven't done the work like the company and want to and have like major conviction for it, I have no staying power when it comes to volatility in the market. And I was basically I basically projected in myself exactly what I described earlier when and it but it's just my psychology is that like I need to have done the work, I need to believe in the company and where it's headed to sort of believe it through the ups and downs. And I think if you if you're able to take at least for me, if I was to be able to take some of these ideas or something that I see coming with a company I don't like, I better be sure I get it with the right cycle market cycle because there's no way I'm going to be able to

36:42wait through the ups and downs of of the market where I again I would much rather focus on making good picks, making the good good bets in the sector and pushing those forward and moving like that. And so that's when I hear this stuff like I love to gather more knowledge and understand more things and how they work. But for me personally, I've come to the realization that I'm certainly better when it comes to staying to the stuff I believe in and have the most the highest conviction for. And that's where my money should be. Even if you're talking about playing around with like small amounts of money, whatever that may be to each person, I just don't have the staying power when it comes to speculating and stuff I don't believe in. And that's just me personally. And again, there's different mindsets and psychologies of people that can do can make money a variety of ways. And I think that that's maybe like the biggest thing is to show that

37:43each individual, you know, that's everybody is so different in how they can make money. And there's a million different ways that you can make money. You don't have to do the same thing as, you know, any commentator, as Bill Powers, as Brian, that you don't have to do that. You probably just need to try enough things that you find what's the process that sort of fits you. And that's the best thing that you can do because that'll give you the most conviction. That'll give you the best chance of making money to wade through the ups and downs. And and that'd be my like my biggest thing to tell people is that you know, it's just another example of finding your own way. So with some of this, what I just kind of threw out there for discussion sake and for learning sake, whenever you see some of this ghost activity, perhaps, or you recognize it, it may be a company that you invested in that you weren't aware of. Have you ever sold because of something going on behind the scenes in a junior minor that you get wind of after you bought the stock?

38:46Absolutely. And can you share any examples? I don't even know if I want to share. And I feel bad for not sharing the examples, you know, but maybe next time I can think of something that I can share the full thing. But what I'm going to say is this is absolutely. And there's then I, it's another example that we make mistakes, you know, you think you have all the information. And then it then appears that you absolutely don't. And and so yeah, and I'm very quick to or at least I think I'm quick to admit when I'm wrong and and move towards, you know, another avenue, whether that's selling this stock or mainly reducing the position or exposure to whatever that difference that person might be. And then sort of moving from there. And like I would say like there's, there's, you know, even being engrossed in this sector for as long as I have. There's just some people I haven't met yet. And there's some people that I didn't realize have as bad of a reputation as they do. And so when that comes to knowledge, it can be sort of off-putting

39:54when you put so much work into a company. You think that, you know, you've you've checked every box. And then this piece of information comes for as like, oh, not so fast. This person is involved. And, you know, you're you're likely to be short-changed in in some shaper manner. The thing is, you know, especially in this kind of market, it's and it's unfortunate in some ways that bull markets, you know, allow a lot of riffraff to stay in the sector. And and so you is it's just a warning that you sort of always have to be careful because the bull markets are fantastic. What we all wait for. But these hidden people in hidden situations have a have a way of showing themselves in these kinds of markets. Sort of what you were alluding to people that I should clarify too, unless I'm misunderstood. When I'm talking about these junior mining ghosts and these three categories that I'm kind of just trying to write down as I gather my thoughts and form a paradigm. In general, what I'm saying is amoral. In other words, I'm not saying if you're

40:59a jupettoist and you're controlling this, the strings behind the scenes. I'm not saying that that's inherently amoral. It could actually be a good thing. If you got a person. So just the exactly. So please don't misunderstand me. If you're an apparitionist and you appear every so often and you're a ghost behind the scene that makes yourself known that could be a good thing, especially if you're a shareholder of a company that you think is off the rails and this activist steps up and says, let's get it back on the rails. Or if you're the purest ghost who just is hands off, perhaps they don't have like direct influence. But if they're in the stock, it could be a good thing. You probably don't know about it unless you talk to somebody who knows them and happens to slip and tell you about it. But generally, what I'm saying is amoral. I'm just saying, this is my observation, my opinion of what I've seen actually exists for what it's worth. Yeah. I'm just taking it to myself as we're talking about this. How I can suggest people

42:03look forward or understand it. I think it's just a matter. You just have to be. You have to be going to conferences and experience. Again, these aren't necessarily things that I learned right away. It's stuff that you learn over time and it's the more you talk, the more you're engrossed in the sector. So unfortunately, there isn't a direct thing I can suggest. But it is worth knowing. It is worth knowing. I'm certainly glad that learning has especially happened over the last year. Any thoughts you have further from reflecting on your days in Toronto, Brian? Well, the other thing that really stood out to me is this trend towards bulk sampling. There's a number of companies that are starting these bulk sample programs. And it makes sense in a way. We have touched on this in a prior episode, but it just rehashed. Because I knew there was a bunch, but there is even more companies that I wasn't aware that are

43:04doing it, that are now doing it. And one of the guys at the company, I really like the guy, but I said, okay, you're going to make 50 million bucks or however much money off this bulk sample. What are you going to do with it? And he said, I have no idea. I thought, I thought, well, okay, well, that's problematic. So I think what people need to do is if these companies are doing bulk samples, are they doing some trial mining or whatever it is? And just ask what the reasoning is and how they're going to parlay that into future work or where does it fit in the vision of the company? It sort of plays back to, we're talking about Andre Gamot, and I just interviewed him a couple weeks ago, and it really sunk into the importance of vision from a management team. The articulation of it and the living of it. So it's one thing to have a vision about how the company is going to progress, how they're going to add value, but the detail and then obviously the execution that the person is doing what they say they're

44:09going to do is where investors, I think, need to find that alignment. And of course, Andre Gamot is one of the best examples because he lived it and then had a billion dollar success out of it. And there's obviously, I would say, again, thinking about Prado's rule, there's only going to be a certain segment, but this is something that investors can listen for and ask questions surrounding the vision for the company and how the company is necessarily working that out. And to me, the perfect example of talking about these box samples and what they may or may not mean, there needs to be a reason why you're doing it outside of just raising the money because you're taking away from the future value of that mind. And again, like there's companies that I know, and one in particular, I'm invested in that it makes a lot of sense why they're doing it. And I think it's going to lead to an M&A deal, but that's part and parcel of the story. So if you examine the company, you would talk to CEO, you know, that's where it's headed. But again,

45:12some of these other guys are just raising the money. And especially if they're on that, that's more bad actor side of things, they're going to find ways to funnel that money to themselves, be my guess. So you just need to ask more questions. So is there a processing facility that they use or like, what's the strategy? Is it to show proof of concept or is it to get cash in the door? Well, that's the thing. That's the things. Like the, you know, I said, what are you going to do with the money? It's the one particular conversation that I had. And you said, oh, I have no idea what we're going to do with the money. But again, you can, you can do that. Let's say you have, obviously, these are going to be in situations that usually aren't going to require a huge cat-packs. But, you know, you've got a vein at surface. That's high grade. And you can, you can mind that that and then send the order to just about anywhere to be, well, not just about anywhere, but there's some specific places right now where you could most likely sell it, China being one of them. And you could sell that, make the money. And now you're sitting on

46:12this bunch of cash. So what are you going to do with it? And again, I wouldn't necessarily say, oh, we're going to explore or we're going to do this. We're going to do that. Like to me, there needs to be better reasoning on why you're doing what you're doing and exactly what that plan is for doing it. And yeah, I just thought it was like an interesting trend that's going around. That's what happens when you have $5,000 gold. And a lot of these companies can get away with with doing something like that. And people don't necessarily ask as many questions because it probably will work. It's just, you know, why exactly are you doing it? So Brian, you interviewed, I believe it was Nicole, Ed Sheed Bell. And she talked about the psychology of not just investors. This was, I don't know, six, eight months ago, whatever you interviewed her. But she talked about the psychology of executives. And the way she described it, it was actually junior high-ish in that why do you guys all wear the stone wash jeans? Like when I was in junior high, well, it's because Susie and Bonnie have the stone wash jeans and they're

47:15the cool kids. So I'm going to buy the stone wash jeans. And she said that oftentimes you can see those trends in junior mining to where if this company does it and another one does it, then oh, well, I'm going to do it and add that into our business plan because they're doing it as well. And that's not to be little or make fun of anybody. But it's a psychological factor to observe what you're describing. Absolutely. And that very likely is part of why you're seeing an uptick in these sorts of business models or whatever you want to actually call that. Again, there's some situations where it's completely warranted and it makes sense. And there's other situations where I can see there's no thought put into it whatsoever. And that's probably what you're describing as I'm doing it because the other guy did it in his share price went up 20 cents because of it or 20 percent because of it. So Miser will do it myself. So again, I don't think it takes too many questions for you to understand why anyone company is doing what they're doing.

48:18And so the point is just for investors to start asking that. So that's just something that came up that. And then the other thing that I was thinking about is just the sheer amount of finances that have popped up in the last two weeks. And the reason why I say that is because I look back on 2020 specifically. And you remember that I was like, that was that was a really good six to eight months run we had. And the companies have this innate ability whether it's conscious or unconscious to sort of start raising money on mass. And it's sort of probably the same thing where they see another company do it. So I'm going to do it too. And of course, right after that right to that Q4 of 2020 things started to take a break. And I don't know, you know, it just popped into my head that maybe that's sort of what we're seeing in the market here kind of hitting a culmination of number and probably overall size of the amount of money being raised. But again,

49:18we'll see like everything else about the market tells me that this is far from over. But you know, maybe 2026 is going to be a little bit harder across the board than many would have gassed, especially back in January when things were rocking and rolling. A lot of times with the financing too. Like when you see who's leading the financing, does that affect you, Brian? When you see the investment bank that is doing the financing, like, how does that factor into your analysis? It can. But like I'm a pretty independent thinker. And so I'm be like, not that it can't be a validation factor after the fact. But I'm buying stuff because I believe in it. And that's that's, yeah, 100%. If I believe in it, I'm not much really care who the lead order is or or or that sort of thing. Or it wouldn't sway me. But yeah, it would maybe validate like, Oh, I, you know, that makes me feel even better about the direction

50:18of the company if these guys are investing in it. But then again, like it's it's a it's a pretty small window where that applies for me specifically. And so, you know, the it's a minor point because I'm making the decisions based on the fundamentals of the company. And that's what's done me well. And I will do me well into the future. Like I said, it's more one of those just like food for thought. I was on the train on the way home last night. I was sitting there as kind of going through the news flow. And I just thought, wow, like, this is the amount of the amount of 10 million dollar financing that I've seen over the last two weeks is incredible. And like, there was some near like a hundred billion. And these things are fully fully spoken for within the day or or maybe even going into the financing. They're not saying it's already gone. So that's a pretty frothy market. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. But if it parlays into other things I've seen, it just makes me think, you know, we'll see how the rest of the year goes. I hope people are

51:19invested in their junior mining portfolio for very specific reasons and very specific catalyst better outside gold continuing to go to $7,000. And this might be again, one of those moments that reinforces like an adage that are, yeah, it's basically an adage that I have for myself is that I don't buy junior mining companies because I think the metal price is going up. Metal price is only one reason why you can make or lose money at a junior mining company. Especially on the downside, there's so many ways that junior mining companies can lose your money. And so be very sure on the reasons of why you've invested. And then that makes the ups and downs, either buying opportunities or opportunities to sell. And when you see your companies that you bought at a bottom, because you did a fundamental analysis going up, when you assess why that company is going up, though, in your head, do you say I attribute this from copper going from $450 to $6? Do you quantify the impact of the rising commodity on the share

52:24price that you own? Yeah, most of the time. Well, I've got, I usually have a spreadsheet on the companies that have resources or technical study. I have a spreadsheet for all of them and I can punch the metal price in and I can see what the value should be according to me. And so I can attribute that. It's sometimes it's really easy to do it. You can see, you can see, you know, copper goes from $5 to $6 and the share price goes gaps up by 30% or 40%, whatever it is. And I think it's pretty like if there's no other news released, it's pretty obvious that that was probably why or if the whole sector moved, it's probably why. But then you get into these bull market moves. Let's say January where you have every day, the stocks going up, five, six percent, three percent, and it's just steady. It's harder to sort of over enough time if you've got that parabolic move to say, oh, it's because of this or it's because of that. So it becomes a little bit harder to assign. And what I would say is like, you know, another thing that a mentor taught me

53:25on early on is if if you're seeing movement and share price in a company and you can't sort of put any logic to it, it's probably time to take a little bit off the table because likely that share price is going to come back and then you just you just recoup that differential, meaning if it's a 10 cents stock and it moves to 12 cents on no news, no metal price, no nothing, you just popped, probably just grab that, grab a little bit of that solid portion of your position, likely that thing comes back and then you just buy it again. And so you recoup that differential and that's something that you can do or they were they taught me to do in regular life and regular markets. And in bear markets, especially, it's it's it's very prudent to do that sort of thing. In bull markets, I see, you know, sentiment is high. People are only seeing roses ahead. And so, you know, maybe it's it's less of a less of an important thing to do, but just something to contemplate in your process. Well, thank you for another month of listenership. Brian

54:25and I appreciate it. If you want to learn more about Brian's newsletter, go to juniorstockreview.com. We appreciate your listenership and we'll catch you for a monthly chat in about 30 days. Thanks for the conversation, Brian. It was great. Thank you for listening to Mining Stock Education. Please subscribe and share this show with like-minded investors. Connect with us at miningstockeducation.com and sign up for our email list to stay in touch. Much success to you as you learn about invest in and profit from mining stocks. The mining business is one that generates gigantic wealth. You know, a good drill hole that converts might cost 50 or $100,000 and it might discover something worth a couple billion. There is no sector that I know of that has offered up as many predictable circumstances where there was the possibility, certainly not the certainty, but the possibility of 10 for one

55:26returns as there is in small cap and micro cap mining stocks. Concomit with that, if you don't do the work or even if you do do the work and don't discipline yourself on the sell side, there are very few places in the world where you can lose as much money as quickly as in mining stocks too. I just started to study up on mining stocks and I just became fascinated because this is such a tiny sector and it's so volatile that either you could really, you could do really, really well or you could pretty much get blown out of the water really quickly. The mining sector is a very risky sector. It could take your money very, very quickly. Don't fall in love with stocks and don't be overly confident and just do your work as best you can, do your very best, but don't fall in love and don't get too overly confident because that's a recipe for disaster. I have met professional retail investors that have made a tremendous amount of money on the junior mining space. Some of them aren't accredited and they just spend their days researching, talking to people, being on the phone, being pouring through financial documents, but it requires commitment.

56:38This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not to be considered personal legal or investment advice or a recommendation to buy or sell securities or any other product. We make every effort to be accurate but the information presented is not to be considered infallible. It may contain errors and we offer no inferred or explicit warranty. If personal advice is needed, consult a qualified legal tax or investment professional. Do not base any investment decision on the information contained on miningstockeducation.com, our podcasts or videos. Make sure you always conduct your own thorough due diligence before investing. Realize that we may hold equity positions in or be compensated by some of the companies we feature and therefore our biased and hold an obvious conflict of interest. For our full disclaimer, please visit our website.