Jordan Klepper

Here we go. Do I have to promo? I don't have to promo anything with you, right?

You don't have to. I got some shows. I'm doing on the road, but they get they get good on my website if you want to put

Guys, real regular

Watch the daily show, you know what? Yeah, support linear television watching at 11 o'clock at night

That's what would you shut up guys? You're not even guys. You're I knew intro with you here

I know I am a lot of amad the mechanic was on here. He patted himself down brought his own padding. Yeah

Yeah, we kind of give it a time to kill feel extra sweat on that little sweaty

I like to shine because it gives a sense of urgency

Like I'm like I'm like I'm like frantic with you are the audience is like I need to switch to audio only is that the kind of well

They know that this is urgent

This is I'm trying to diffuse a bomb over here. I'm gonna get a close-up of a sweat

sweat drop

Um, this is I haven't even done the intro one time

Intro for this episode. I'll give you a little anecdote

What do we start? You know, we started this is a gone off the rails before you even got on the rail

One time was pitching a movie with Mike sure this is the year was 1999 Mike sure's gone on to create a lot of shows

You like parks and rack or whatever pitching a movie. It's not going well, okay?

And it's it was sure turned to talk and he's and he I want and I I'd like to zoom in with my eyes and he just had one

Droplet of sweat coming

Coming down his then sure we'll confirm that

He I'm sure he watches the show

If not every episode

Every other one

Guys my guest today is

Stonework he

Daily show correspondent

You're saying JFK junior is still alive and spending his time in the background at trope route

And and host they're all hosts

They're all player coaches now

Comedy Central said why make a decision if we name one of them hosts

We have to pay them host money if we keep them all as correspondence. They get correspondence money

Is it a bump? Yeah, it's a bump, but it's probably not great

Although this guy I feel like because he came from position of power. He started doing a field pieces

Called Jordan Klepper fingers the pulse

At one point I watched one early on and said you should close everyone by saying I'm Jordan Klepper and you just got fingered he didn't go for it

Didn't do it. I still think it's a good idea

Um, and

He's a he's a very good host at the show. He's very at these these these finger the pulses

Are they still called for any pulse? They're still called finger the pulse. He they get millions of hits

Now having said that he has to take at least two flights

To every place he shoots a there is no direct

He is not filming in places anyone wants to go directly

Does he go to Charlotte a lot for a connection? He does

Atlanta you betcha Dallas. Yes, anyone anything. I'm missing Chicago probably. Yeah, I don't stay at any of those places

No, these are he then he stays the airport connects to a flight to through Atlanta

Yep, or even driving so deep into Pennsylvania, which is a one-day drive

But there's still a layover because time works differently when you're driving to the middle of nowhere pencil

It really does, doesn't it? How's your diet on the road?

Terrible, you know, yeah, I have gout and so literally literally have gout

Literally, this is what happens. This is all like oh it's glam from this is this is this is room

This is this guy's paying the price this guy's paying the cost to be the boss. Oh, yes

When you live in weird airports across the country. Yeah, when you what's a good restaurant when you see

On the road you're always rooting for a panero. Okay

Panera is gonna be the best option. You get a bacon turkey bravo at a panera. Okay, bacon

Well, bacon's not great for the gout. No, but the but you're not getting burgers

You're not gonna fried chicken. You're not getting french fries. You have an option for salad. You never take it

So you're hoping you get the soup and you throw it away

They offer you the bread the apple and if your friend's not looking you take the bread. Yeah, you always take the bread

You're yeah more over the night you're getting our bees you're getting McDonald's you're getting that

It's what I try to do my healthy move at these hotels usually is you just try not to eat

And then you splurge on a late-night dominoes or poppajans poppajans and dominoes dominoes better

I think so are there more a lot of are there are there more dominoes

In general then poppajans. I believe there are poppajans. You dip in butter. You dip in butter. They have the garlic sauce

You dip that in butter

On the road you you know coming from New York. I expect you know

We have long days of shooting or what have you and you're like oh, I'll get some food later than that. Everything should have said about

830. Yeah, 830 in America. It's it's soul-crushing

When you've been working and you go to in your hand and then you see them you go to the restaurant and you see them

Doing catch ups wiping the exams you're like

When I do like stand-up shows or storytelling or what I yeah

I don't eat at all that there's just no the timing never works. Yeah, it's oh, it's

Do you want food before I don't want to eat before yeah, you get out at 930 like oh everything

Everything is closed. Yeah, you got nuts. Do you eat now? I mean honestly you end up

Eating an almonds. Yeah, you you you raid that Hilton thing which gives you like ice cream like microwave burritos

What's the Hilton thing the club? Are you know you're like no? Oh god no no like the that you walk in there and behind the guy at the desk

Oh, right, right, right, you're probably a member of the club and they'll give you one free item. I don't like you may do that at them

No, oh you oh one of those guys that every time you're from the bill burr school bill burr once screamed at me about this

Really that they're going to use it against you somehow

I mean screaming at me. Oh, I think they're already using it against you. You're not a reliant on going to Hilton

Yeah, but if I can get something in return

I feel like I'm get I'm very cheap

So I'm very like I'm gonna use the mile. They're not trust me. These miles are not expiring

Look at me. They're not where I'm I will stay alive to use these miles to use them continuously

I mean I have friends who will never touch them because they have some vague idea of a wild trip 10 years. Yes

No, I use them. I view I off. I family. Yeah flights

Hotel stuff like that. It's they get used. Yeah, somebody's using them. I cash mine out every like six months catch them

Okay, how'd I do you cash or you use them? No, I use them. Okay. Yeah, I go I go back down to zero

Every year. I usually use them for some sort of what's your highest membership? I think I'm I think I'm platinum now for Hilton Delta

No, see the hotel. I'm about to be guys

Your boys about to be diamond on Delta. Is that right? Yeah, but what is it? What is that?

There's there's a weird HQ or a TQ's you have to get you've seen the circle

Yeah, it's I did it with I did it with cash. I did it with I don't I haven't I've gotten like three flights for 40,000

Not like so I really I've been having to go to Europe a lot and it's not been yeah

It's been I'd spend thank you to my sponsors

Uh, better help. Thank you

rag and bone

Some of the others

Tushy course. That's Tushies. I don't know if they're still around, but you got a rag and bone. That's a high end. That's nice

Thank you. That's a lot of trust

They've done like four ads. This is a rag and bone shirt. I was gonna say that's like a that that that that kind of furs a stylish

I know. I know. Uh, Gerard Carmichael once referred to rag and bone as showrunner clothes, which is

He I think it was a disc, but it was it was a great. It was great

Anyhow, so are you okay? So you were you were like

You were at the with the way it works. The Daily Show. It's a bit of a not a sink or swim thing

But it's a bit of like a hey, you know if you have any ideas

Pitch them if we have ideas will will make you do them

Yeah, and uh and so when did the fingers the pulse

start working

I was when I got in I got in like a year and a half before John

Left the first time the first leaving time and

This is why I'm saying John's leaving. No, that's not there's no

He's he's not a John learned his lesson. He's not leaving. Nobody's leaving any of the jobs. Yes. That's correct at the time

I took over for John. I mean, they're gonna get all get canceled. What have you heard? Have you heard stuff?

They're all gonna get canceled, but they're not leaving them

They're gonna leave them, but it's not gonna be it. They're not gonna quit

No, we're we are you're gonna have to chase us out of there. We are

In it

When I took over John Oliver left I took over essentially his position and at that point like

Sam B and Jason Jones were there people have been there for a long time Jessica Williams

and

I was the hungry one so they were throwing me out on everything and so I was only and you really were like

I'll go anywhere of course. I mean, I was the dream job. I loved doing the field pieces

I felt I've come to I came from an improv background. So field stuff was always most playful

And I would do man on the streets

Then after John left, you know Trevor came in and that as Trump was taking over and things were all shaped

There were there are out any political season. There's more man on the street more events like that

Yeah, and we're also sort of looking for like ways to brand

niche and what have you know, I was like I like going to these rallies and also Trevor was very loose about what he wanted from like

Field pieces in the John days some of the field pieces

Which was the aesthetic it was also sort of John's purview like you had a clear idea of what you were going to get before you walked out the door

Yeah, there's space for serendipity, but you sort of knew like yeah, it was kind of written

It was like I know yeah, I know that we're gonna we're talking to these people we pre-reviewed

So just straight man on the street. We really did that at the time at the show at that time

And Trevor came in and was sort of like go go with God and also this was the this was the mago world

We're suddenly like yeah, what is going there? We just have questions go. We still don't really know

That's what's great about it. You still have no idea. We had no idea. We'll never really know what happened

No, that it truly is like the bermuda. It's the Bigfoot the Bermuda triangle now

Now the irony is it's the same I'd say I think the the greatest

analog

Yeah, for mago world is the national climber

like

Elizabeth Taylor Elvis

Aliens Bigfoot

conspiracies

Swiss drug

Spaz just and it's that like bubbled up and then you can actually get outside meet other people who do that

The convention. Yeah, and they they're used to not there was no way to meet those people and now they're it's as much a

lifestyle convention

As a political more lifestyle than political. I think people miss how attracted that is also to

Like these older generations. I was an event in Wisconsin after

To throw away to find it was I think it was Madison maybe an hour and a half outside of Madison and

And I remember talking to old ladies probably late 60s grandmas. Yeah, sweet Wisconsin grandmas

I thought we were gonna talk about abortion. Robby wave was all the conversation on the news

And we went out there and they they were deep QAnon they were deep

JFK juniors still being alive

So JFK juniors still alive what yeah, and it was it was they're happy

It was probably and March

hats macromay it's f**k shirts. Yeah, and that's key chains

That's they hop online like it was quilting. Yeah. Oh, I got two hours. What I'm gonna do

Searching out conspiracies gives you a sense of power and pride and you figure something out

And then you come to this event and that other person has done that conspiracy and it's it really is and you compare

Conspiracy compared conspiracies you buy fun merch for it all because the parade has come through town. Yeah, there's parades

Don't usually come through town. No, and the most important person the most famous person who's ever existed on planet earth of all time

Comes to your little shit down. I somebody Sam Harris said that Donald Trump's the most famous person who ever

lived and I I

Don't want to acknowledge it. It's a I think it's probably true. It's a terrible fact

But I would you'd be hard pressed to think of

A living living because you got it Jesus

But if we're really doing this you're right living. Yes as far as like

A cultural figure but somebody at their time who was aware of them the population as a create if you're talking of like

The gang is con. Yeah, have you like information in travel like you did now information travels now the population is so big

I also think like January 6th is perhaps the most well-documented crime of all time

There's more cameras more

More footage of an ongoing crime

Yeah, yeah, and uh

I mean you know you want to talk about the

A thing that I would have bet money wouldn't I thought if everyone got body cams

That would be the end of kind of like

Criminal defense just like ah

And no it's because that

We got

Amp like endless video evidence and then at the same time as AI um and at the same time as

Complete disinformation

Truth is not a salve but it doesn't it doesn't end the story. No, it's just the beginning now

One of my favorite I interviewed so many people I was there January 6th

Excuse me is this addition happening over here interview people after January 6th. What if he said everybody should go

Little pigs with that you still vote for them then

I would still vote for him people I talked to beforehand were there at January 6th

But what are the guys whose hands out the most I interviewed a man after he served time for January 6th

He did his time three months. He did three months. He was but this guy he told me the story leader paid

Agitators and motivators that were in that crowd. He drove to DC met up some some guys outside DC

They shot gun beers over breakfast and then they went to the Capitol um

They he he got in a fight with the police officer. It was on tape before before on January 6th

Okay, like during the during the Ryan or this

So on this is pre-gamer pre-game pre-games. Yeah, he pre-games because we out all be yeah

He meets because it's a high school. It's a high school field trip

It is and it really the other comparison that's always apt in this is

I'm from Michigan like college football. It's tailgating

And it's that energy and it's and when I go to Michigan games I put on hats

I put on silly outfits and you see other people who put on fight cops. Yeah, if you fight some

If you lose you fight a cop you fight a cop. I see why we get shot. Yeah, I haven't did every mission

But this guy he's there. He's for that and then then he gets in a fight and it's caught on camera

And then he goes inside the Capitol and then he gets arrested. Do not see your actions as violent that day

I see the self-defense

Then they arrest him

He has his trial. They show the video. He pleads guilty

And then I asked this man who chose to go to January 6th who chose to punch a cop

There's a video of him punching a cop who pleads guilty. I asked him who did January 6th

And he says it was an inside job. They were manipulating people. Absolutely. How did they manipulate you to punch a cop?

Not just trying to be funny. That makes no fucking sense. It's not him. It's like this is the guy who did January 6th

He did January was an inside job. Who does he talk about the FBI agent that wave people through

You know how that's how crime works is if an if an FBI guy waves you through

Then it's not a crime. I think I think yeah. I think deep state is his idea. Right. Well, but he was just so

But I know people that were I know somebody people that didn't believe in COVID

Got it almost died and then said like yeah, but I think it's overstated. It's like how much more

proof

Do you need and the truth is some more? Well

Identity identity. I know I know really is it's like yeah

This is

What does it say about me if I if I believe that COVID exists then I'm a I'm a bitch

I've already created a narrative for this. Yeah, and our brains are constantly working to try to create a narrative

So that we are the hero and everything you say is correct and you just see that constantly working

So far so good for us. We're doing great. We are the heroes of our own story

Protagonist here. Yeah, but that is where it's it's not a piece of information that will

Do that I always get asked that how do you change people's minds and it doesn't it don't have it on the road

You don't you don't and that's not the purpose of those pieces right but the closer the purposes to say snarky should you have to be snarky and funny

And do you think they think you're funny

No

What do they think do they?

Is the energy going into it

Uh for them is it like I'm gonna

Best this yeah, I'm gonna beat this Yankee some

The people who recognize me are like screw this guy don't talk to this guy. Are they hostile sometimes? Yeah

Some people are like oh, I see this guy. Let's get at it

And then that becomes more debate that they're they're eager to best me and I know this guy

He's an internet guy. Let me take him down

More often than not people I mean they'll sign waivers. They know they're on TV. Yeah, but they

What's the waiver say is it paramah is it is it yeah, it says it's I don't think it doesn't exist anymore

Yeah, it's all in there and so they're they're they're aware of this sometimes they're aware of the daily show sometimes they're aware of paramount

Yeah, um, but they are signing that they agreed to be on the camera and I think they

They don't enter into it more often. They're not they're not entering into it combative and they're not walking out that way

They're not usually not our intention. So some of these

Some of these retorts that I have or what have you go over their heads. Yeah, or again hypocrisy is not

Landing on them. I

I

More often I will have an interview with somebody and I will especially when the campaign was going on

I'll go to another rally a month and a half later. I'll see that person. Yeah come up

They're like you want to talk again and they'll have seen it and

early John days on the road

We lived in worlds where

Somebody would have seen a daily showpiece and they would have been embarrassed by it right that like the

That was the point the general understanding of culture was that what you believe right here is ludicrous

Yeah, but now I do think Trump has warped this

They can fully see them say something what that appears insane to

Perhaps a left leading audience, but to them is just being paraded by everybody around them

I think I'd say on a TV to the face of this guy and so it's like great. I got another crazy one for you

So that is the hypocrisy of it is no longer

shameful in fact, it's it's disregarded

They said I said on here shamelessness is is bravery now

I like that. It's like literally like I'm I'm I'm strong. I'm a soldier

for

It's nonsense, but I'm

Dedicated it's and that's rewarded the dedications rewarded more than

ideological

Consistency or ideological

Like hygiene or it or just like morality and that's his that's they by the way they think they're gonna beat the pope

Yeah, JD Vance. I think it's very very important for the pope to be careful when he talks about matters of theology

It's like do you guys

at

It is the Trump superpower that he feels I believe it's I mean I did a joke that he's like

He Trump is Drake

And the joke was that and he's got the worst entourage like Drake did that Drake was like I'm gonna do this Kendrick

And they're like you got it this Kendrick

What's he gonna do call you a pedophile the super wall

So did you say I mean Trump a week or so ago, you know, they asked he said how he likes to hang up by losers because like you just

I love I just love how there it is. I like to hang out with losers because they make me feel better

I always like to hang around with losers actually because it makes me feel better

But again, but everybody's in this bubble was like, well, they're just not talking about me

Now everybody else like JD like JD Vance thinks that about everybody else Marco Rubio thinks that about everybody else

Doug Burgham thinks that about everybody else Trump's a burger

I was wondering we haven't talked about burger me. Why are we getting this? What are we doing this or what?

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And the and like last time I mean they all go to jail

Meaning all the people they don't they don't realize like everyone who worked with the guy goes to jail

They got pardoned, but they all were supposed to go to jail

Maybe but maybe not you guys

I mean, I don't my faith that accountability is is waning so who knows I announced her yet maybe maybe yeah

Um, okay the

What what do you find in terms of doing those pieces?

Do you go into them with any

performance

Style that you aspire to is it about like clear your head is it about like what what are you going into it with yeah?

I think it's a few things I learned something from Jason Jones early on which is shut up and give people space

To hang themselves. Yeah, you know my Midwest nice and my improv sensibility, you know hates that silence in that scene

Yeah, and I would do those initial interviews and remember

These were more traditional daily show interviews were sitting down across from somebody else

And there's that weird awkward beat and that weird awkward moment and I would I would relieve them of that awkward

So step one is let that moment sit yeah play it's revealing

And do you find that they bite?

70% of the time I mean for me I will say when I walk in there there is there is a lot of prep work that we do before a field piece

We sort of think of it as debate prep, you know

I'm going out this this week as well and we have a meeting we talk about where you go basically I'm going to Phoenix

Okay, direct direction. Yeah, and then probably a little puddle jumper in our time. Yeah, Flagstap. Yeah

Gonna bring get a grip on man off the flagstap. Please panera be in the area

But we will

We'll just talk about you know possible things we want to talk about some holes in logic some jokes

You know, we usually leave with like a few pages of like jokes or bits or things that right about

I read a moment. I had them loosely in my head

And then you you let it go and you just chat right

They go in much more interesting places

And if you're if you're trying to play towards a joke that you thought was funny three days ago

You're not going to find it no play at all the best moments are these moments of revelation and the improv it

Improvisors slash improv teacher in me is

I walk in there. I want I want to make that person feel as comfortable as possible

The best stuff comes when they're talking to me like I'm that buddy at the bar

They're revealing something they're not on guard because and this where you see it with the news media where sometimes

There's more revealing things that will happen with a finger the pulse piece than what you get with the news media

Because they're guarded and then the news media has to be

Stoic in their approach to somebody else

I'm very kind in my approach and that's not disingenuine. It's earnest. It's like I do want to know

I want to make you feel comfortable

I want to make you feel open about the things that you believe. I want to say yes to the things and so do you feel

Do you approach it like you

You have value as a person like meaning

Political disagreement as not like you just like no they deserve their day in court

They deserve to be heard out every single person had you know what I mean?

I I like to think that I approach it with a sense of kindness. I'm simultaneously furious at some of the things that I hear yeah, but

From the Midwest we all we all have people with different points of view

And political views in our families. I get that. I spent a lot of time with these rallies now

I made friend at these rallies. Yeah, I brought I brought somebody who I've seen at he's been to a hundred rallies

I brought him to a Kamala rally last year and we spent a day and a half together Edward

He's great when we don't talk about politics. We talk about music. We have a great was the

Did you do a piece about him being in the Kamala? Yes, he was

He was fascinating. He was such a good sport. What are you expecting today at a Kamala Harris rally? Oh, I expect to see the

Hate actors who pretend to be your supporters so many people who are there again

They make this their identity. Yeah, but they hold the politics loosely. What time do you usually get in line?

At least 24 hours in advance and at a Trump rally if you want to go to one if you get there by nine o'clock

You're not going to get in which is where sometimes the liberal

Argument of like these facts will change it's like it's no it's the show that's fun

And this is the identity and this guy was it's like hey man fish isn't good music

Right like what

What are you talking about this is this guy Edward Edward's great Edward was a grateful dead. He was a dead head

He was Obama big Obama support. Yeah, I would have said 20 years ago. He says grateful. That's not good

I again, but I don't it's not my kind of music

Etc. But but the people that like it like fish is a great example my buddy do you do a fish show? I'm not a fish friend

I don't listen to them. Show is great. It's so communal

I really went to a fish concert and at Madison Square Garden and the first thing that I reacted to I walked in

30 minutes before the show starts and

The whole the whole bottom floor is people in circles talking to one another nobody's like nobody's just staring looking at the stage

They were all talking to each other. Yeah, it's like what what is this alien experience? Yeah

I was like oh, they'd been the night before or the night before that and they were all just they're just seeing each other

Yeah, I've never I go there. I stand in the corner. I look up there. I try not to make eye contact

But this fish experience it's fellowship it's fellowship and boy, I wish I had more of that in in my life

And you see an Edward

93 rallies with Donald Trump who found it and find and that's you add meaning that you go to this place and Donald Trump says you're

You're a patriot also you can be an influencer all of these guys have side hustles of yeah

Which just might mean 30 people now subscribe. Yeah, but 30 more than before

They're part of the conversation and it's so important to them and yet they get caught up in this

This perspective so they have to it's not only becomes their livelihood or it's at least their community

And then it has to to be their belief base when I brought Edward to the Kamala rally again

I really I love Edward. He's kind. He's thoughtful

And he didn't change his perspective. Yeah, I need the big political issues

But at the time he thought he believed the narrative of like there is nobody who could ever support Kamala Harris

These are paid

Paid actors who are at the events. There's there's no energy or what have you and

And he showed up and it took him a while

But the one concession he made he was like oh

Well, there's people here. They're misguided. I disagree with them. Yeah, and they have the wrong info

But oh, there's that there are 10,000 people there who are very excited. Yeah

Dancing and we're happy and after after like an hour. He was like oh, they're not these are not actors pretending to be happy

Yeah, these are people who want to be a part of a movement just like you are there and so

So I'd like to think I approach them with grace understanding that and at the same time

I'm very frustrated with like the misinformation that they pedal and are putting into and so a good thing in the pulse piece for me

It's funny, but is as a moment of revelation where like they're in their bubbles

And they're not having these conversations with their pals. They're not getting there. None of this is getting pushed on them

They actually haven't thought through why they think this about trans athletes. Right. They haven't thought through this thing about Iran

So I get to have the conversation with them the first time and and in that space

You see them working through these holes the first time. Yeah, and so I love that

So I walk away from that like oh, that's the gem. It's anthropological in nature. Yeah, and and

The comedian me it doesn't make TV unless I have a joke on it

Yeah, or I have a way in which to contextualize a pern audience so they see what I'm seeing

So that's the work

I have to be an improviser who creates space

For for that person to reveal themselves and then I have to be a comedian at the end of it to create context for an audience

to digest it

Have you worried

I think at the January 6th one you guys ended up leaving right we did because it was too we got too hot. Yeah, got too hot

Thunder cannon tear gas. Let's not wait to find out was it hot at you was it hot in general was it hot at

It was guy both we had

We were there's the million maga march a month before yeah a couple weeks before I think

Which was he wanted a million people there to protest the election results

There's not a lot of people that yeah that the election happened he had lost right

But they had to stop the steel campaign and they had a big thing on them while we went to that

And the attitude had shifted the rallies from being were were the winners too. Holy shit. We lost they wouldn't say they lost but

The temperament turned and

And they were very much more like

A disaster zone afterward right very much like FEMA like like the tornado came through here. What are we gonna do? Yeah, they were

They were they were antsy. They were scared. They were angry and Trump throws that Trump

There's no organization to Trump rallies and so when he invites people to the

When he invites people to the

DC to

To have a trumps day of love

When he has a day of love at DC

He doesn't pay for enough speakers for people to hear it

He doesn't pay for enough guards for people to keep them safe

And so you what you end up having is a lot of people who don't get inside rallies who don't know how to get in there

Like the the fascism is fascism is poorly organized and so on that event

We got we got harassed out he cheaps out. Yeah, and that's what happened on his birthday

The thing when people talk about I mean, I am afraid about what is happening here

But when I went to his parade on his birthday that he had last year. Yeah

All he wanted was a North Korea style picture of him with the tanks and everybody cheering

He didn't get it. He had all those empty stands. Yeah, now

There were not a million people in DC

But there were 50,000 people in DC. Yeah, and I was talking to them and they couldn't find a fucking seat

Because they blocked off all the roads

Doge fired all the engineers who work and they couldn't figure out a plan to get the 50,000 people that he needed for his picture

Yeah, they didn't know how to get there because DC was blocked down and people are coming through and now there's tanks here

And so there was so many mad manga people during that who are running around like where do I go?

Where do I go cell phones are working because that's all but there's no app that was there the people who are working there

Don't know where to send you and everybody's furious and he doesn't get his picture

So more often that that is the experience if you're getting it up close

Yeah, it's Donald Trump if you're if you're just outside it is it's chaos

Yeah, and when we were there that chaos turned on us and we had a flea and god's that feel like

It's scary because it's the how do you what are the signals of attorney on you?

We're very careful what we do our interviews

So it doesn't become a mob situation meaning like on corners like you exit exit plan

Yes, and that's what Janie were six like we

Once people as people had nothing to do at that day

And so they saw me getting tense with somebody and then people came over and started yelling at me

And then like two people have become four become 15 become 30 what's tense with somebody look like

Well, I think I can't remember what we were talking about sometimes it gets Paul religion. It's probably politics

Oh religion like literally religion it might literally be religion and sometimes that stuff gets dark and doesn't make

TV either because it goes to a hateful place. We don't want to put it there or it's not interesting

But the person

Didn't like my stick didn't like where I was going. I was probably being a little bit curt as well

There's times in those interviews where I'm like I'm

But you're not you're no angel. I'm no angel, you know

So it got it got testy and it's somebody else sees it getting testy. Do you and does that look like

Like physical or it just energetic that it's energetic and then people start coming over and they start yelling

So then it becomes taunting and then it becomes guards. Give me a talk. I mean I get called I mean all of the homophobic slurs, right?

Judy jute and anything in Jewish. No. Oh, okay. No. I'm not Jewish. I don't know

I know but I'm not even they they think

I don't think I don't think you have to be doing

That's the feeling I'm like if you read my Wikipedia page, you know, maybe Dutch. Yeah, I don't know what it is something

It's mostly just anger like it live they they they they love to live in like the live land fake news fake media

All that kind of stuff like as soon as that is there it was again fake news good on you. You're right. God bless

That's we are we are fictitious. Yes objective intentionally fake news. We are until that's what we do. Yes

Google it right now. Yeah, this is fake news. I am making jokes. Yeah, is what I'm doing

And then they get mad and then it becomes a bunch of people and guards are holding them back and at that time how many guards did you guys?

I think we I think we had three and then for January 6 we brought four

And then and then we we didn't do interviews where there were groups of people because of that

Uh, we kind of had to be specific. So you get someone and go hey you want to come over? We mostly were like we would go through and we would film a little bit around

Like the mall and you'd be like if we do an interview right here 20 people listen and it becomes mob and angry

Yeah, so we're gonna we're gonna go 20 yards over here. Yeah, we're gonna grab people and talk with them there

And also we knew that day they were gonna go to the capital

So we were we were right at the front of the capital when it happened

But always kind of 20 yards off

We hung out by the um the African-American Museum where nobody was hanging out that day and so we did a bunch of interviews there

That was a safe that was uh

That's a safe spot you touch it you were good you got all good and then we guys I'm I'm invisible

Yep

It it it became then chaotic and our camera guy got uh like shoved and our

Our guards were getting harassed and then like smoke bomb started going off and they were like we can't control the situation

They're they're harmless one-on-one

Well, yeah, they're they're keyboard warriors who at their best are earnest grandparents

We're just so excited to be there and haven't thought things through

But they back at mob mentality on chance sake it was wild to watch people

Get up on get up on banisters and all fake like military bullshit. Yeah, like the move the like

Look at my eyes this kind of stuff like you're seeing guys and stuff that they bought at the airport of the train station

Yeah, ludicrous outfits pretending to be in some some war movie

I was worried that we were in trouble

But then I saw that we got the tyranny response team here and I feel a lot better and and feeling it

Yeah, and a lot of people I could see like they were surprised and it got in this far

But they were in it because this is how we're moving this how we're doing at the same time funny how quickly the human

being like

Because what are we doing? Oh, I know the language. Yeah, I know the vocabulary. I know the movements

I know the and I can do like a decent and it's creepy

It's really because you just go. Oh, okay. I

I understand how most things have gone sideways and in world history

They just say people would you want a bet? Yeah, wait a minute

And when to far got too realistic somebody got

There was one inciting act and then that was

We started doing this with the railings and then like I guess we're all doing this. Yeah, you see that

Yes, and I to be clear

I saw plenty of the people who were there to start shit

We saw the proud boys march and they were ready and then fatigue's right up front

So you see like these people I think I have a plan as proud as they could be

But I interviewed a guy it's an I interviewed a guy on a segway

He's like going up on a segway and it's just

Man, what are you thinking here or regular person on a segway like probably

65-year-old man on a segway

Magga out

Going up up the cap on the lawn up to the Capitol. I'm in I interview

I'm slowly jogging alongside this guy as he's like bumping over this thinking he's going in there to overthrow America's democracy

Yeah, and he

Could have been further from the truth

They were this close, but don't worry about that. It doesn't take much more than a segway is what we we quickly found out

Yeah, but that day that what that day was that day was

horrifying and so comically absurd all all in one basket

They were peaceful people these were great people

The crowd was unbelievable and I mentioned the word love the love

The love in the air. I've never seen anything like it

Yeah

Yeah, all right, let's do some blocks. What are we doing? What are we doing here?

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Oh, okay, this is good. I can relate to this

What do you got you got

What it's not what I got what I have that I sent you that know you actually should about the the

Sorry, I've been flipped you know we're joking, but this is I'm not one of your mega people

Don't come at me with little you think I don't you think I don't speak snide and with the right with the right with the right media diet

Creatively ride logic versus absurdity how to let go and take risks. I was a math major

Well, let you get take the rest

I'm not gonna blow the punchline, but he was a math major. This is stay tuned guys. You two could be a math major

the the I how I take it is

I have what I call grid brain

So like I don't like doing LSD because it's just like no, I'm already here. Mm-hmm. So I don't need

quadrants and grids and it's already it's already happening. Mm-hmm

And if you now it's really helpful organizing editing

timing

Shit that is it's linear. Mm-hmm. What's the tell the people about the downside? Well

like I was a I was like a nerd and a math kid and

sort of the structures of

Of comedy and even the places I took classes. What have you like that structure provided a safe place for me to

To be creative. They call it a game in improv. Well, that's the structure improv. They they it's a formula

It's a formula format structure. Whatever you want to call it. Yes, and so

For me like I loved studying comedy growing up. I did literally my college like thesis on sketch comedy

But what I always gravitated to is I think the control within that and what I was always jealous of is like the freedom in the looseness

Yeah, and that's I feel that's a constant balance of like where do I go wild and brainstorm and be loose and yet

How do I add restraint to it and the clarity and repetition and timing?

My brain is is made for the timing in the math. Yeah, but

But I keep having to challenge myself with the the risks of going weirder and stranger like python was a first

Instance for me of like a type of comedy that was outside of what I could sort of conceive of like

Circus like oh this I don't understand this but I like it my brain doesn't work like this. I want more

Can you get into it meaning I'm not get into it non-linear

Can become a structure. Yes

I find I find myself most creative with a

Deadline or a wall I'm up against

I stumbled into it with improv and I was Chicago improv which is much looser

But you're up against the wall of the audience and of time

Yeah, like I would get out there and you can't go in it with any preconceived ideas

You say a thing and you got to make that thing work

That's supposed to figure out what the best thing is right the creative projects that I work on that are open

Ended the writing projects and what have you that

Work on this script what have you I get I get mired in in the perfectionism as opposed to the making the the half idea a great idea

Like waiting for that great idea. Yeah is is a constant challenge and the more success you find in this space

The more you hold on to the things that have worked and or like the logic that you know how to do

Yep

But I I'm fully aware of the need to break that open and to be

Loose I look what I love about field pieces like especially like a

And I do specials is that it's more documentary work and in that mindset to me is you go out and you you find and you create

And then from that you piece it together in the editing bag like I often think of myself as like more of a sculptor than a painter

And then like give me a thing. It's this make this better as opposed to here's a blank slate

What do you want to do that always that that's that's hard for me?

Yep, but I know also what is so limiting about that when you when you when you host a daily show

It's a little bit of both worlds the first more the morning is throw stuff out

Super great day. It's a great great. It's a great stress day. It's a

I love it. Oh

It's but it moves I think for me you have to make decisions throughout the day

Yeah, and you have to be open to ideas because you got nothing

So let's create a hundred things fast and then let's quickly make those hundred things 12 things

And sharpen it and then just do it and then sell the fuck out of it

Yeah, that to me really works well with my brain from a like a hosting standpoint and a creative standpoint

Do judges obviously seem feels like you judge yourself for not being

purely creative. Yeah, I think I yes, I wish I was

More loose and free, right. I feel very comfortable in an improv stand

setting

but

but I'll I also know the

the cheats of that and I'm doing

Like some stand up in a couple days. That's just like I got a lot of time

And I'm gonna just throw some stuff at the wall and that's terrifying to me

but I'm trying to get myself

grace and space to not overthink it right now right because that's in that I'm like I need to overwrite overwrite overwrite overwrite and that that

I get in my head. I'm I you need to put in more work to make this good which I think is partially true

But I think at this point I need to put in more space to discover and give myself grace to do that

But that's a hard conversation to have

This fear comes in and also like I want to be

I assume I assume I just assume failure. Yeah, meaning I assume failure. I do a new joke show every week

Yeah, it's a lot of failure

and

and

I just I don't I always say like I'm not a genius. I will

The only way I can do it is out craft and out

Work people but I'm not I'll have good ideas, but like

I that's so yeah, so it's like literally like that's not enough. You have to have like I'm not like I can't write an hour a year

I can't but

Yeah, just give yourself like the exit except that you're

Because

It's the only thing you control is effort. Yes, so I

That is that is a constant battle. Yeah, and I stand up to me is new and as a such a different structure than

Then the improv world with the sketch world. Yeah, so that is something I haven't cracked

Because I'm still new with some of these tools and figuring out how that is and want to bring some of the like looseness of improv to it

But don't

But in trying to figure out the right balance because the audience is such a different expectation too

Like that was a quick thing I learned of a stand-up audience like this show that I'm doing is a new show

And I think with that understanding up top I think there'll be more grace for where we go

Because I I'm also trying to figure out format stuff my last show I did

I didn't want to do stand-up. I wanted to do storytelling

So I did a bunch of new material that was essentially

comedic essays

Which was a fun way to sort of explore like what is this format look like can you read essays on stage

What does cinderus do like I want to tell I want to talk about January 6th. I'm like oh, I kind of do it on the show

I don't want to just do a couple jokes about it

I actually have some stories. I want to kind of write something about it

And so I like I wrote stuff and then I perform it

But then you perform a proven audience and you realize the rhythms are very different for that

And so that was an exciting experience in that like I mean it starts to become a stand-up

Well, it doesn't you can't really manipulate it you you don't get so much say in

What they like I think that like in fact you get no say I will that's what it was they literally go

I just I've literally said on I'll be like guys. I'm just gonna put the

Food on the on the tray and if you want to eat it eat it

But they're not going to eat it if they don't want to eat

Nothing you can do you can't be like you know this is this is a

Delicacy. Yeah, there you go. We don't like that. No wait. What not from you that yeah

That's but that is the fun that seems like the fun space

I like I wish I I keep challenging myself to have more balls to try in that space to see like where are you and you're not a neurotic guy though

I'm not you're not are you are you what sort of a husband are you?

Great question

I think a good kind somewhat controlling go go I will say my the critique I received from my wife recently

Is I think I'm a fairly well-balanced person

I've heard you correctly riff on the Stoics Jerry Seinfeld reads marcus are really is just meditation

And 50,000 jic head implants. That's true. It's true. It's true. Mark is really some of the early raises. You have to let it all go

fear

disbelief it means nothing yeah unless you actually apply it and aren't making videos about it, but I find like

I read a decent amount of philosophy and I've approached certain things of like the things you can control control them things

You can't let it go and get rid of that anxiety that way and

The last thing your partner wants to hear more often than not is like check out this mark is really is

I think that's gonna help you with the issues that you have right now. So I

But but I think I am I am pretty good at like accepting this situation as shit or good and just making the good out of that

That I think is a skill set. I have but as a partner my wife is like oh

I'm the kind of guy who doesn't stress about the things until the last minute and then has sort of a panic attack

When we haven't figured the thing out and she's the sort of person. What are you expecting?

I heard it be thinking about she's been thinking about it for two and a half weeks right and then what do we tell my trip

Everything a form a trip. How are we getting home?

What we're gonna do with our our child about the school that's going on about like the thing that her father said that she needs to take care of because it's in health issue

Like my mindset is like can you control it now you can't then put that away and focus on what this is and then she's sort of like

I need to obsessively think about this until we get it fixed and then we hit that point right before it happens

And I have a meltdown and she's like well, I've been having this meltdown and in some ways we're all having the same meltdown twice

She loses twice she gets ignored and then freaked out she has a two-week meltdown

I've never been on someone's side more in classes you would love her you guys would really

I'm gonna steal her

Take her let me tell you take her in the two weeks. She's freaking yeah, let me work out my 30 minutes beforehand

Do you what's your are you a Yellor? No

You're a breuder

I'm I'm I'm I'm sarcasm and snippiness. I mean you see it if I fingers the pulse

What's your flag say come and take it come and take it. Do you have a weapon? No, why not?

Did they take it?

Sorry, bro. I at my worst. I am like that well actually guy. Yeah, you can suss out hypocrisy or you said this thing when you said that

But I but it all seems like you're fault. You're saying it's my fault. Well your wife is

I'm agree. It's the scenario you've set up sounds like you've been negligent

In that scenario I have been negligent. I think I would approach that scenario as

There is anxiety in all experience. Let's limit the time with which we dwell in it

And that leaves me at a fault in the moments where we needed a little bit of preparation

so

So do you I mean the truth is you can buy your way out of a lot of things

Look we're living in a world where like there's a fee that you can there's a late fee. There's a there's just there's ways around it

Do you mind? I mean my guess is your wife's like I it's not about the fee. It's about the fact that you ignored my

Yes, well, and then this is the problem is she would use that argument. This is why you guys would get a log

I'm then I'm very cheap. I'm

I grew up so so when we reach that point where now there's a financial way in which to take care of this or

We're taking the easy way because we're throwing a little bit of money on it

Then I become snippy and bitchy and the worst version of myself because

The you know middle class midwestern repops in my brain and you're suddenly like why why are we wasting this money or these resources here when we could have dealt with it in this way?

Is it a thing you're working on

Does she think you're working on? No, I'm not because what is the what's the what's the approach is like I need to get ahead of stuff

I would say the question that I probably posed to myself within this and maybe it should be more a relationship based but

Like the project of self. I think what a project what a project

But I tried I mean, but it's mixed in I would say mixed in with what we were just talking about is

Yeah, I'm seven and trying to like I honestly feel I feel pretty good dealing with the anxieties of life and what you can control

My job. I love doing my job

My job has been through so many iterations in the last 10 years that I've dealt with like the fear of it ending and the grace of it going that I'm I'm

able to accept that

So I feel good about that

But I still balance like so what I have to be a good parent and a good spouse and I also want to be creative

How do I do that? I do that through like I try to let my brain go to weird places. I read a ton

I read about this stuff. I try to like indulgent arts that are surprising

That like we'll expand where my mindset is

That I find myself getting too in my head about like how to piece together a life that is a worthwhile life

Which is part of the whatever midlife crisis and probably going in but I know it's not as I'm not necessarily going to be

I would say I've been in midlife crisis for 27 years. How do you get out? Have you figured it out? No, you dig in

You dig in and you just you just you love you again and then you look up and you've actually dug your own grave

Okay

It's credible. It's great. Yeah, uh-huh. Well, I'm right in the middle of it right me and your wife are standing up and we're getting right through the

Dome just guys just relax we can get to this later. That's what it is. I just want to put it off my midlife crisis

Till the late 70s. What is what do you think is a life well-lived? I mean, I think it's it's someone who who

Is able to exist in the the most pure present

And still acts morally and kind. I think having a kid

Was

Wonderful in all of the ways they tell you but was such a clean focal point

I think I feel pretty well adjusted and don't I had a wonderful family growing up and what have you

Um, and you can talk the talk of like a kind moral person lives in a space where they're caring about others

But it's still it's still project numero uno with the way in which a guy who's taking improv classes and doing things

I mean somebody in a marriage who has a career

You're focusing on yourself all the time. You're living in your head

And then you have this kid and it becomes very clear that person needs you to live put your energy in that

Make your choices about that your financial choices are based on that your care

And and even just walking down the street. You're you're helping mold who that human being is

So be present with them be kind feed them food that is good for them like

It was like a wake-up call of like oh you talk the talk you read the shit about how to live a good life

Now you're giving a child that you have to give to you. You don't have to do it. Oh

So I think that is that has been helpful to focus on like well do it. How do you find the nervous system

Effect of a child on you

meaning how it because it's

It's a journey

It's just a day is like what you experience more in a day with a kid than you do and like

Six weeks as your own person. Oh, yeah, it's it's very New York. I think New York. Yeah, you know

I think the New York experience is of the highs and lows of life. Yeah, I've seen the past as a homeless person as it yes

Not as a person with a with an apartment. No prison apartment. Yes. Oh, yeah, you're great. I'm a kid is kid is your home

But no way it rent like we're in you see like oh, I don't deal well with

Seven minutes of crying. Yeah, it's straight like we said it is a it is a test

The fun part is that it is a test where I'm like oh, I've been I've been bullshitting this

I read pretentious books. I do therapy. Yeah, all these things to become better at

Yeah, and then a kid screams for seven minutes on a street corner and you're like

Now is the time. Yeah, what have you figured out? Yeah, it is right now. Yeah

Who do you want to be? Oh, you listen to 12 hours of Alan Watts? Congratulation. Well, Alan wants has a great or it's

Ramdas has a great quote about if you think that you're in light and go spend a week with your family

Is that right? Yeah, which is like

It's actually three days with your family, which is which is like the yeah, man. Yeah

Hang out with a kid that wants french fries. Yes

That's it's test time and you can't get them

Because he said he was done with dinner you ate the french fries

And yeah, and they're gone. This is this is your this is life. Yeah, so then to me I'm like oh the work of life is not trying to change the

parameters so

you're

You're not searching for french fries for 12 minutes for standing on that street corner

It's like how do you how do you subsist in those seven minutes of screaming

Like present and kind have you learned about

How to deal with people overall from that because that's funny like

obviously

my

basic son was like

crying about fries

recently right and and

And you and you go through like what your parents would have done

What you'd like to do is like a petty person

What you like just all of the stuff and you end up

I don't know where are you end up. I mean you but it's almost like you go on your own journey

And then they finally stop crying and you're like

You traveled through time

You you confront yourself in that yes, it is that's exactly what it is

It's like oh my parents would have done this. Yeah book. I just read would do this

Yeah, I will and you live all of those lives

I have that moment where I am so petty and I

I like slam my son like not physically, but I like I like I say that snippy thing. Yeah, like piss them off or like

Oh, you think that the I did the

My child gave me a little my child said they hated me

Really knows like this where where where I hate space. We're like oh, I don't get that's why I hate you

This is going on and was was being mean about something and and then gave me this little piece of paper that said

Love on it, and I thought my child was pranking me and then went back to like yelling at me

And I was like well, I'm gonna

You can't keep doing that. I'm gonna take something away

But here's the problem with this new parenting. There's nothing to take away

You have to be like Montessori kind and so there's there's not there's not TV to take away. It's the worst

And so they're like what what are you gonna take what what what what what is it and I get up

I jump up like well well well, and I tear up the little piece of paper that was given to me

He breaks into just tears

Which was the right response to him and I'm like why did I have to why do I have to win this moment?

Yeah, I don't have to win this moment like the better version of this is being kind and spacious and just fucking take it

And my my parents were there and they were like no stick him in the room. It's time out time. Yeah

I I in that moment I threw out time out for the first time and my child's like what's the time out?

I'm like, I don't even know. I don't know how it works anymore. I thought you would know

Like please I worked for me. I was so scared of timeouts. Yeah, but I'm gonna put you in your room

I'm not gonna lock the door. You're gonna walk on out and then I'm I'm nowhere. Yeah, but that's that's the experience

The funny thing is though. I still believe the time out

Were I mean, it's funny time out was a response to hitting yes, right?

And it was like there's a better way. Yeah, you just

Now we're back. We're just like let them hit you

Let let them to let them get it out tell them it's okay. Have the big feelings, but you can't yeah, you can't you can't hit

But then that's I've had the conversation with prevent they're like well, you just tell them they can't hit you're like

Yes, but then they hit again and again. Well, I think it's

I don't want to indict myself, but I think it's I think it's

There have to be guardrails. Yes, I was talking to my mom about it the other day of like

Saying I hate you to your parents. It's like I ain't no one said we don't say that

But it was I understood that we don't say that. Mm-hmm

I I under I remember a buddy of mine saying it to his parents and then beating him up

We said you know, I have also dealing with the reality I had a kid late in life

And I've also lived through the last 15 years and I grew up a kid who was raised a pretty

Normal Midwestern life who believed in authority who thought there's the police you respect the police

Go to college. You're supposed to go to come firefighters. Thank you for your service the president way to go

Yeah, I have a very different feelings complicated feelings about all of these institutions about what schooling does about what the government does about

What like all of these institutions do it's complicated now?

And so when you have a job asking you about these things, I'm unsure these guardrails about it

It's like oh, I wish I could give you the clean guardrails. I know say yes to your elders if they say it do it

Well, yeah, it's complicated. I don't feel that anymore. Yeah, and I want my child to have a more

New but I think it's a bit like to have a church where it's like okay, take away homophobia and

the molestation right

It's not a bad what their espousing is not bad. Yeah. Yeah

Well, I guess they can't women can't be priests. Why was you want it? Whatever?

You're welcome, but

It's not but it's we got it's like shame. We can't kink shame. I don't know

Part it like all these things of like no, we don't

Ah

Maybe maybe there's some value to it. Obviously, there's collateral damage to anything pretty much, but I've got all the way around and it'll be in an atheist as well like

To be in so anti-institution to like we need elements of these institutions to create a road map

But it's a balance again. I think I met people need really people need guardrails

Unfortunately and religion is a pretty good one if yes

If you take away the crusade you take away like everybody did there like the crazy elements of it

If it's just like I a personal discipline. Mm-hmm. It's pretty valuable

Very much so as long as you retain your own

Your own agency and perspective like there is

One of the philosophy, but I'm reading a camo the myth of sephus right now

And if there's a quote of talking about institutions critical of institutions says like it relieves you of the weight of being human

Which many times feels like a necessity?

But when I go to Trump rallies and I interact with people they've given over

Empathy or the way in which they act towards their neighbors towards this institutional knowledge this party

Right some have done towards Christianity, you know, but they have given it over because being a human is so hard right now

And we sometimes we search into our phones to kind of get away from our own mindset or sometimes we turn to to Maga or that religion

And I get that, but we are we're we're

Succeeding our ability to engage with who we are in a way that is I think could be so detrimental now

It's hard to you that into a kid. I

Like I think you get I think you give them guardrails that you can then I think you give them dart guardrails and you give them training wheels and you go

Take them off

When they become stupid, but if you have to build if you build the training wheels, right?

What is the shape of the training wheels that you build?

Sorry, sorry, I don't even want to do that

Next question. Okay, they're wheels. Okay, but the metaphorically. Yeah, do you do you lean on like Christianity?

Do you find a religion to I personally wouldn't lean on Chris? I would lean on

Elements of it. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like decent basic decency basic respect. It's like respect elders up to the point of molestation

Didn't I mean like literally I had that thought in my head the other day of like young and you got to respect all but then there's also like

Molestation was the collateral damage of respecting elders. It's like for instance like

Corruption it's just like

there need to be guardrails and

But you put they didn't really tell us

Don't get molested

You don't remain like they didn't they it was just kind of like

There was not

Me got popped he got popped

Like so I think if you give people guardrails give children guardrails give people I did a

Daily showpiece that didn't you're not gonna leave it didn't do it well

We're like Republicans need Jesus. Yeah Republicans y'all need Jesus

People need something to

They need a system literally they need

Institutions they need marriage they need like literally without like a career track of

Relationship track people need tracks people are hose and they need to get on the whole track and you get on the whole track

I agree with you two a point

I think the idealized version of a human being doesn't need those tracks right there. They're eight. They're eight. Yes

Right, but you're reading fucking Camus so get there. Get there. You're right, but but again

The Camus an ideology. It's it's the Stoics are just a different ideology. They are they're a different track

Yes, but the people have laying the major tracks in this country are the manipulating where these tracks go

Right, so I think like you can't use maga as a as a track to like teach a kid anything

Right now without it going off the rails

Religion was built in a night well

Complicated, but there's elements of a religious track that that can give good guard rails

Mm-hmm, but the deeper you go into that

I think the more you the more you give away your own agency towards who you are an identity. There's elements like

I've looked at Quakerism. I've looked at like

We all will we all will we all would go meeting. I mean

It's a Scientology the 1800

But there's there's you

I wish there was stuff like that

1700 so that I mean I think actually I think George Fox is the

1500

Let's we're gonna go if we're gonna if you want to do it

But there's I what is the what is the level of guard rail?

I guess is the argument we're and I also it's the same way like Republicans need Jesus

Republicans, you only Jesus

You know liberalism atheism is I've said a million times Martin Luther King worked because he offered people he offered white people salvation

Like I'm a minister. I'm a reverend

Just say yeah the guy thing

Right, yeah, oh, yeah, that's way more effective and appealing than the you want to be on the right side of history

Which is what liberals are it's it's Kurt Madskar has a great line, which is the right side history is

Is white liberal heaven? Yeah, and it's like it's fucking useless. You don't you get nothing. Yeah, you get you get smugs satisfaction

Which is as that's real white liberal?

Spugs satisfaction. Oh, you can live off good look at us if we're not who is

I've gone empathetic towards the artists who have found God. I like I'm a big Bob Dylan fan

Uh-huh, and I think in wrestling with this question of like trying to live a

A life without guard rails in what have you I see like Bob Dylan's

God years are the worst years

For a songwriter as a songwriter

Yeah, like the deeper you get into you like oh of course like once you once you explore all of these things

Yeah, like that is such a compelling place

For both relief but also like an elevation of some of the things that are outside of who you are

So I'll probably do that. I probably in my fifties. I think I will find folk singing God and then one of the ladies

We hope we hope right? It's what the people um you want to talk about an audience that has no standards

Um, you can get in there. I mean you can literally say they this is a folk song like where do we sign up?

Can we wait? It's about no it's about this land. It's about land

Oh, I thought about there was a hot second was like there's got to be a hip hop DC talk. Do you remember DC talk?

They were a go-go band, right? I think it the DC talk. I remember was no, they were Christian. There was a

Yeah, they were like fushnik it. They were like yeah late 80s early 90s. Yeah

Um, we I was gonna do is we might still do the segment where Jordan knows a lot about 90s R&D

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Well, okay, well, yeah, I mean I'm I was an atheist and now I believe in something from doing drugs

Yeah, I lost getting all that stuff so like what has that

Something do you define it as something? Oh central I call it central creation force that and the animator

Okay, the thing that and the thing that gives everything

Motion you do you think that's an actual force? You think that's sort of like just in an idea?

On these drugstates I have experienced it and it's

still

When I leave the drug state it's still in me

Still on me in me

Inside whatever you want it, but you you project that on something outside of like an experience you're having within your brain

That's something that is happening in a universe. Yeah, but I'm not gonna hold anyone to it

I don't it's not I don't it's a it's that there's not a list of rules like yes and therefore

Because I because the my defense though it's not even it's one of the defenses of it is like

so

The dome on the rock and the the wailing wall the the Muslim holy site the third most famous Muslim holy site and the most famous Jewish holy site

same address

It's like ah

so

The joke of the joke didn't work is like it's a romantic comedy where it's like you're fucking the same girl

Yeah, this is the same like every so everyone's again, that's a that's like one example

I just think it's everyone's all saying the same thing. It's just different

It's the narcissism of small differences like don't eat fish. No don't eat pork

You're way off

It's all these things that are all everyone came to the same. It's like it's like hyroglyphs on one cave and then on another cave

The guys fouries are all the seven thousand. Yeah, seven thousand miles away

It's like I this seems like everyone's saying the same thing and came to the same conclusion

independently

So that's the that would be like my

anthropological defense of it and I went from like no to like oh

Okay, all right. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna

There's no point in questioning this and I can't say like

I'm evangelical or like I don't need you to believe in it or whatever

But I that's what I think I don't and and

But it doesn't but I think all my ethics are crack a Catholic school. Yeah, all of my like

You know

Beliefs in terms of behavior, but I don't think anyone are bad. Are you are you going to heaven? Do you believe in that?

No, I don't think I'm going to heaven any more than anybody else. Yeah, I don't think I think when you and I die

The same thing is gonna happen

Do you think that it stays firewood some

But let me tell you fireworks parents and just people people people riding

I

It's just that's just what I think yeah like it would I it's I it's a thing that I experienced

that I think I will re-experience in some

Written large way yeah, yeah, yeah, which again

I'm not it's not it's I can't convince anyone

I can't convince nor do I think it nor do I think it matters

I think it's big I think it's purely insecurity that like I need you to think

That the patriots are the best football team in the fucking league

And you're like no, it's the Raiders. I don't care

I who gives a shit who gives a shit like why I need you

I don't think it's gonna make a difference. Yeah

Yeah, I just don't think it's gonna make a difference in like yeah, just it's all

It's very small in human. Yeah, but with the like what people have tried to do is so like what

Even yeah, so

But I don't expect you to believe it and I'll expect

I'm not even gonna say it's easier for to explain them. I think kids. I think there's a moral

I think we have an inherent moral framework. Yeah, you ever heard you hear about that study where kids like

pre-verbal kid like three months old have

They they like

There's I I'll get the experiment wrong, but like they don't there's blobs

And one blob stops another blob from going and the kids don't like the blob that stops the other like this

inherent fairness

Mm-hmm that I think like the human being has

Yeah, I buy that

And I don't think it's it's probably evolutionary

Yeah, I mean I would I would assume in some ways that yeah our bodies have built up in a way where we we go farther together than

Yeah, yeah, I I relate to a lot of that the deeper I get into it. I

I think we all start to agree on a similar narrative

I think yeah the power we give to that is sort of our own and what we do with it

I would say I'm like roblo with the NFL hat

I just believe in the NFL

I think I love it. It's like I do their kids that fun. I just I'm here for the I'm here. I like the guy

I don't I don't care about I'm literally like yeah, I don't I don't june Muslims career

I just don't know it's all saying the same thing yes, and you can see the human part

Which is like would you can he fish can he meet no gaze and we got to kill

Some of the other groups

That doesn't seem like that's second it's the second part

It's that let's all get together and figure out how to tell somebody else what to do with it. Yeah, it was very problematic

And what I why do I care yeah if you what you also people don't even believe it anyway. No

They memorize it. They know what they have to say

But they don't actually it's a bit like the Constitution where it's like people don't even know I mean Christopher Hitch you say all the time

Did you I'm sure you read God is not great. Yeah, that was a

Start you know that I I cringe a little bit. Well damn hair-ish. Yeah, the David Dennis

What was the four horsemen of yeah being an asshole your friends for the next seven years the four horsemen have smugged

Not Sam sent look Sam's a Sam's a buddy and he's done the pot. I I love it. It but yes, that was those were very important. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah, but

We'd listen to the I remember when I drove to LA. I'd listen to God. It's not great and the pickup artists book really

Yeah, and it would it defined the next 10 years in a lot

But but but the the I would

Hitchens would always say like people don't even know what's in the Bible. Yeah, and I I

It's a bit like people don't know what's in the Constitution. Oh 100 present. I talked to somebody

I think it was a might've been January 6th about the Constitution

Yeah, and he was quoting stuff. I was like, would you read the Constitution? He's like nobody's read the Constitution

How could you you can't get it

Thoughts will divide yeah, yeah, I got part of it tattooed. I'm yeah, I like who cares who is time to make it to the L

But so so no, I'm not but I'm not worried about you being in here

I'm probably I probably I shifted to atheists in the the Hitchens era and I probably shifted back to the

Agnostic era where I think like yeah, it's a yeah, I'm I am open to it hopeful

hopeful for something more and

Have lived in things you think you understand

Yes, and then think about how little you understand that the evolution for me for lack of a better term in that has been in my

Certainty where I do think that is something like

That that Hitchens part of my life that smug period was like a certainty of like oh, well, we've disproven this there

So it's not an atheism in and of itself is it also a certainty of there is no God where then you see like oh, no

I think they then becoming aware of like the things you don't know and open for surprise becomes what is most compelling in this phase of prop

I believe they call they do call it a prop. How long do you say if I have any more blocks for you?

Certainty certainty. I was giving it to you once and and being open and comfortable to uncertainty doubled up

Uh, this is one that we talk about a lot, but information overload. Are you what did you go on a print?

Well, how you reading chemo you reading hard paperback when you read I got a paperback for that great

I see what became fun about that was going to pop in

Like coffee shops and reading it exactly in front window

Just wait just to hold it up high hold it up real high. Oh, you're talking about them at the surface

Yeah, and you would hold up your daily show Mike. So people knew it was here. Oh, yeah, it's me from the day

If you want to post this, that's fine. I'm just studying them thinking about

Life and French existentialism actually absurdism if we're being technical. Yes. I have a family. Don't worry about it

I'm not stressed about it. My wife is you get two weeks to be stressed about it, but I'm fine. I'm living my best life

You know I started to do is I picked up that book that that has a funny premise to it

Well, it's essentially the only philosophical question is whether or not you should kill yourself

It's called that book kicks it off

I think it's kind of hilarious and kind of spot on and so I've been carrying that around and writing all my jokes in that book

That whether you should kill yourself or not kind of I was like this sort of funny and also like let me actually just

Just read it and if I have a joke about what I'm reading or just about my brain going elsewhere and use that as a no pet

So that's my new thing of like how do I use this as how do I use books as no pets?

What is keeping them on me like in the terms of the information? I'm like I'm trying not to

Stay away from my phone. So keep like these little tiny books. Yes, like go out. I do that

Read something write something and don't get on the fucking internet. Why yeah

Um, and has it made a difference a little bit. I like

I know what I need to do to be a better person as far as information goes and I'm battling it every day

Like when I did the

I hosted a show I left the daily show got to host my own late-night show

It was a blast but it drove me crazy just with anxiety. Oh, well, it was not fun

It was not first person enjoyable on your nervous system exactly

Yes, in fact, I think some of this very very rarely are that's what I always ask you when they have a show

I was go do you like having a show? I

Loved it

But I mean my wife was the person say like you were you were terrible health

I would I just wake up at that wake up at 4 a.m

Super stressed out and in my mind it was like you need to read all of the news before you get to work

And so that was like I thought information would be the answer to being smart and funny and aware

Also, you know hosting a show and epine a show you're like I kind of have to have an awareness of what this whole thing is

And that that wore me thin and exhaustion and so when I came back to the daily show

I was sort of like one. I was like just be grateful because the one thing I felt regret about was that show ended and

You and you are really rude to people. I hate it. I was so mean. I just like fuck you

You were fucking it was you know, it was wild burn it down. I wanted people to write about it

I kind of wanted a I wanted a reputation. I didn't fully get it

But you were taking writers you went around the writers room and you were like no

Come with me. Oh

You got to do it. I mean you have to send a message. Yeah, and you kept saying I'm never coming back here done

I'll just show you this is on Jordan Klepper does not fail was well. I think was their working title that was

It's only was 100% was

And so you realize

Well, okay, while we're here. I want to talk about how good Trevor and Johan are yeah meaning

You do it

you have a show

and then you

See what your happen to your nervous system and your

performance ability

Your your synthesizing this episode and you go fuck

Cool, so what do you talk about john and talk about Trevor and not in a

It's you know what I mean yes

I mean getting to sit behind the desk doing my own show and get into the daily show you see what

You get to see how hard that job is yeah, I already had nothing but respect for both those guys doing it you know

Coming in working with john, you know, I looked up to john

I was a fan of the daily show for decades before getting to be on the daily show and

One of the things I was so impressed by was his decisiveness like that day

Two Johns credit and also setting a giant burden for Trevor like

John sort of revamped how a lot of late night rooms worked

I think in some old school late night shows

The host could come in midday and yes or no some jokes

Yeah, I remember Dennis

I remember hearing Dennis Miller would get in like he'd come in on Thursday

Yeah, like for the first time maybe fry like everything else they would send they would fax to him

Yeah, I think john sort of

I don't know if that's true, but that's what I mean

I think I think a lot of the late night you were a host

You know and some and some hosts were more hands on than others

You know

As by the time I got to the daily show with john like the show ran through john his name is on the building

And so he is picking the stories in the morning. He is

Working with the writers on the jokes. He is the most vocal person in all of rewrite

the field pieces that we would do

John would approve every single one of them before we went out

I would go in and have a meeting with john about the things that we need to get with the field pieces

And so like the show all ran through and he knew what and he would I've heard stories of him like reworking pieces and

And yet from a field what was interesting about the field shit you'd go wow

There's it's like rock Chris rock told me one time

No one got more jokes in other people's sketches

Then Adam Sandler

And so like Sandler would just walk down the

And go hey you might want to

Like sketches that you'd go

Adam said I'll tell you who had nothing to do with that sketch Adam Sandler and he would always have it's like a very good joke in them

But similarly john john got to the point where it is his show. He knows what he wants to say

He has he's he's so thoughtful on the news

He has the best batting average in the building. Yeah far. And by the way, he's got the most reps. He's got

He's literally done. Yeah, every he's done field pieces

Which is sort of if you

Not to get in the nerdy-ness of like a late-night room

But it's sort of wild to to do a field piece where you're filming something in Wisconsin

Yeah about some other thing and John Stewart's writing a show that he's putting on

In an hour and a half and doing these other 10 things. And then he's hopping in an edit. Yeah

And on his way to the rewrite is like all right

You have and I remember that it was like he's walking through we have five minutes

Yeah, like so he would watch the piece and you'd sit next to him nervous

Yeah, and John would look at it digest it and then

Give you all the notes and you made those things happen

Like Trevor walks into that and what not only is that a hard job to walk into be the host of the daily show

But the show was suddenly built like you have to be the expert on field pieces. Well, yeah, it's like uh

newspaper editor. Yes, and and and Trevor's

uh

Morrican to

a really good

musician

who's

Who's figured out his sound

and and but also like Trevor's like sharp as fuck so like yeah, so like he could he could do that

He like he grew into more of the editorial thing, but you're absolutely right there. It was a little like

It's the expectations are like it's more like producer expectations than like host expectation

Yes, well, what was so fascinating when he first came because

I remember the first time I met Trevor

He he did a few like correspondents and hits on the show

And I just I'd I was like the new guy in I think at that time until like I'd just been through like what it's like to be on the

Daily show for the first few times and I remember sitting in a rewrite with him and the writer Joe Miller on something

Just like this guy has like ice in his veins. I was like this this shop is hard

You just came in you're here and you are just cool as a cucumber

Like there's just like an ease to him that was remarkable in me as something was like wow. I just had to do this

A version of this almost said it's almost like he grew up in a part time

That's I mean that it really became the thing where I was like, you know what? This isn't gonna be my stress

but when he came into like

Those writers rooms. I just I have so much respect for

For both of those men that they are they are heroes of mine

But I remember like what was fun with Trevor's I got to sort of collaborate with him in a new relationship

And watching him like come into a writers room like that writers room had been conditioned

To like wait for the host to sit right there and then to sit and then just look and be like well

What do you think about the world and how do we put this in action and look Trevor walks in and it's like okay?

Well, I'm learning about the world

I'm super smart. I have great takes at all these things

But I don't know all of the players and yeah, and the person I'm sitting next to has like a

Photographic memory of everything Mitch McConnell is done yeah last 12 years

Yeah, and like and everybody is I just found out who Mitch McConnell is two weeks

Exactly, yeah, and I am and a provided like fun fresh takes on stuff

I remember he saw Trump clear than so many other people who just like we've been in this for a lot

This isn't what you're gonna have and Trevor's like I think this might happen

This guy's actually really compelling in this way that the room was like what is this guy talking about yeah, and

And he was able to it wasn't until like I got my own show Trevor was instrumental when I I left and got to do the show after the daily show like that was

Trevor

Epidet and was one of the reasons like vouch for me in there and I remember after having

Started to do this show and also I built my show on the way in which the daily show was set up

Which was set up to run through one person like John like the shows

Now evolved in a way that takes some of the weight off all of it

It's still very much host specific and John is all over the show and went on his days

But like it takes it uses people better and people have gotten

More confident in themselves in that space. So it's not just what is the one person say?

It's like well, how do we all make this work in a way that is is much better for all of us

But I remember like coming back to Trevor being like I don't know how you do this man. This is it's like impossible

He was like oh, I was I was terrified this whole first year. I was I was like really because you were

So-called yeah, you let everything roll off your back. You were cool in the rooms

But you were constantly being asked to do everything and I think that's what was to his credit

He is exactly that he is he knows who he is. He's so confident in that

He's a history that has allowed him to not let that one thing stress him out when I had to do it

I let that one thing stress me out that one little thing that I don't know enough about maybe he's not really an obsessor

No, he's just more like oh, why is this let me do this and so

It's remarkable what he was able to do and make that his own and he was really gracious with me

We hit it off right away because I think he walked into a situation that felt almost nearly impossible

And we did these

Promos before the show started and like the the weird month interim and

It's actually the same thing the same thing that I think maybe even endeared me to to John Stewart

I by a dishevered John Stewart. I think went well partially because I could improvise with him as a comedian off script

And I didn't treat him as the malrush more John's right. I treat him as a comedian

Yeah, and I think in a day-to-day job like that like we're here to do work. Yeah, can you handle it?

Do I not have to worry about you? Yeah, great

It

On set with Trevor like we fucked around we improvised we played we did status games comedy status games where I go high status

He goes low status is a really fun play for Trevor. He loved that. Yeah

I wasn't afraid of him or sacra saying to around it

He wasn't he wasn't inviting that but I think the situation was in a way that is so alien for anybody coming in

And so what was really fun was

Trevor liked the spark of that he'd like being a comedian in the room there and was really open with everybody else as well

Because he brought in Roy and Ronnie and Desi and sort of at the time was like I want comedians around me to play

And also this is wild. I'm sort of on this pedestal in this building that has crafted everything to go through me

But also, how do we play with this? So we tried improv stuff on the show or in rehearsals or he gave more freedom on field pieces because

He I think rightfully so wanted us

Wanted a perspective on stuff, but at some point he was like well you guys know what you're doing go

I also kept yelling at him that the field pieces as they existed were so fucking boring

So just let them fucking go dude

Just let them do a man of literally just like

I showed him Chris rocks

Field pieces it was just like Chris in Harlem everyone's crazy

Well, I wonder I mean that's where feel like fingers the pulse it might have been around that time

What when were you in you were I mean you were in

26

I think 16 yeah 16 17 a little bit. Yeah

Not again, I take no credit like it's because of me, but it was like well, but he needed

You know better than I do there, but I think you needed

Allies in the comedy world to to help him trust what not that he didn't need that again part of his superpowers that he

He was confident up to execute it all the time

But you could see where like ally ship with doing bits with Roy here. Yeah, or where we could riff on this yeah

Like the one thing I wanted when I was host I realized when I had to hire a hundred people to work for me what became

Superclarer. It's like I'm hiring you if you can take one thing off my

Can you fucking help me?

That's the only question help me it's like yeah, it's like you have that. Do I okay? I don't have to see you in two weeks

Just take care of the thank you. Yeah, you find 90 other people who take something off now like

That but that was it you're like oh all right. That's what this is you don't need a buddy

You know you don't need somebody to kiss your ass

You don't need somebody who wants to has a million questions because they're being deferential you need somebody who can get shit done

Literally do I can I have a conversation with you and the next time we talk you you handled it you did it like a hitman

Guys um

You just got fingered oh see it. Do you like it? I love it. You love it. I think that's how I'm gonna end my show

um

That was Jordan Klepper

And uh, I think we I think I think it was a good representation of who you are you think so yeah

Let's do a post-mortem real quick. Yeah, what do you think what what could I have?

I felt you know

Refreshing Camu feels like it's very pretentious, but maybe I don't but it's maybe it's

No, no, I like I'd rather reference Camu than

Carlin, I mean you know, I mean like I find I'd find there's so much comedy

Talk shop talk that I'd rather talk about like

Philosophy or and not get into it again, but I would I would argue I always it's just easier. It's more fun to

Figure out artists who don't do comedy I get so much more out of that. Give me a writer

It does weird stuff and study that as opposed to a comedian who does it yeah to me is more liberating and fun

Yeah, I remember somebody going why don't you date a comedian

And me going like being like what I got that I'm good

Being like why don't you date a free slam poet, but for what that's not a thing. I need

I don't need that

Jordan Klepper ladies gentlemen the clip

The clip they call him the clip they do they they've just started they and they're just never gonna stop

um

Go to his website. He's go to his website

Jordan Klepper should I should have said it earlier they probably already want

Find out my audience in the show notes. They're in they are in they love to show notes

Pagan show notes

I don't know how to end this

You got figured. Thank you. Yeah

Yeah, we got fingers free spray

Everybody who goes to heaven goes to heaven

Hey

Oh man

Oh you have to do something open up your head

My man