Jeb & Steve's Excellent Adventure

0:00Hi guys, how you doing? Hey! So, I don't know, toppers the one who pointed out to me the oddity of this headline, may I FBI says a man was charged with stealing an airplane while in methamphetamines, and Steve wants to know how the airplane managed to get itself on methamphetamines. What he was doing in my pajamas, I'll never know. That's exactly what Steve said. That's exactly what Steve said. But, so yeah, FBI, federal, so apparently this guy, I mean, I don't know, it's a stolen airplane story. We've seen a handful of these over the years. Yeah. And, you know, one of the undercurrents that a lot of those stories is not maybe not necessarily methamphetamine, but maybe some other substance. Yeah, probably. Well, yeah, probably. Abused substance. Yeah, right. You know, it's funny, I read this story. So, a California man has been charged in federal court after investigators said he operated an unregistered aircraft without being a licensed pilot, according to the FBI's Los Angeles Field Office.

1:00This guy, Christian Estok, I guess I pronounce it, was arrested Tuesday following an investigation by the FBI LAX Joint Terrorism Task Force. This is because this is clearly a terrorist act, and was charged, et cetera, et cetera. I don't know. It's like the airplane was unaccounted for for a fairly, for a period of time. They finally found it. So, it was stolen from Auburn. Auburn is up, I believe, is up near sort of the Tahoeish area, not Tahoe, but that part of California, if you will. And then it was found where down near LA, I think. Is it just like the chapter 37 and the continuing saga of something going on with this couple? Or we've seen some of this before. Yeah. And I think it's some of the same airports. Well, that's an interesting observation. I was suddenly popped into my head, the story from a while back of the barefoot bandit kid. Remember that story?

2:00Well, remember that. A long time ago. Yeah. There's been one, you know, diving to the archives here, but there's been one within the last year. That was California based. That was, the airplane was here, then it was there, and then someone said they owned it. No, someone said they borrowed it. And, and who knows, you know, what, what was going on? Oh, yeah. This does ring a bell. What story was that? I sort of remember that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the, even the, well, I have two jokes here. I think even the aircraft involved is the same. It's a Vans RV 12 IS. Yeah. Okay. And I think, you know, immediately, Vans should, should go into the, to the, into their advertising. And to look, you know, not only can you build this airplane, but anybody can fly it because this, here's the sky. I want to ask you, you know, it's easy to build, easy to fly. What more could you want? Yeah. Right. I know. Yeah. I mean, it's, yeah, it's advertising. I don't know exactly how they would express this, but it could be. It could work.

3:00It could work. Yeah. You know, it's funny. I read the story and I had a, and I, and I, in my mind, I had a couple of observations about, okay, well, this is, this is, you know, non-eviation media getting the story not, the details not quite right. And then I went back and looked and said, oh, this is an app web story. They, I don't know better. There's, there's a reference in here to, where is it here? Uh, That, that, that the, the, the bad guy, a stoke, uh, I was not listed on the aircraft's registration. Okay. Which I'm thinking, okay, well, that's interesting. Do we need, am I listed on some airplanes registration? I mean, I'm not listed on foffners. Yeah. I, well, that's the, okay. For good reason. Right. Yeah. I mean, but who owns it, foffner? Probably, in your case, it's probably owned by some bizarre caravan shell companies. It's something, Dorbselge Air Service LLC. See, that's exactly it, right? Um, you know, who was going to be someone? Yeah. Right.

4:00Um, so, uh, he's not listed on the registration. Um, but earlier in the story, it talks about the fact that the airplane isn't registered. Um, so I don't know. It's, but it's, but it's, well, registration lapsed. Uh, no one's renewed it. Oh, you know, which is easy to do. Yeah. I'm sorry. It's easy to renew. It's not, you know, it's, I guess it's easy to forget to renew it. But, um, yeah. Yeah. Well, we got the, we got the clickbait. But the, so the metham, but the methamphetamine thing, it's not like, you know, they, they caught him and drug tested him or something like that. All right. He apparently confessed to being on meth or at least bragged. He was on meth at the time. Um, and, uh, it's just like how it, it's clickbait. It's clickbait. That's what it is. Well, it is, it is, it certainly is clickbait. But it got us talking about it. That's what Steve said. Or what, what was the, the first year that snowboarding was a part of the Olympics. They, if I hope I remember this right, I think I know what you're going to say. Go ahead.

5:00Yeah. They took the guy's gold medal away because he tested positive for marijuana. Yeah. Yeah. Snowboard is getting a feel as the, as the former silver medalist who now has your gold knowing you got beat by a guy who tested positive for marijuana. How you feel about your landings now? Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I'm shocked. I tell you, shocked to hear. Well, it's snowboarders. I didn't hide. There's that too. Yeah. So anyways. Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think Vance, you folks should call me. I have a lot of ideas for you. Yeah. Okay. New career. New career. Also, you can, that, that's bondable. I mean, you get, you get to sleep at home. Yeah. Yeah. For, for that. So that's a data point for everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't understand. What does bondableness having? He was able to post bond and. Oh, yeah. Right.

6:00Yeah. They let him go. And, um, you know, time to tell, you know, I, okay. Here's, here's a 64,000 dollar question. Is with, is part of his release include prohibitions on him. A, being around an airport. B, leaving the state. C, wearing an ankle bracelet. What, what's going to prevent him from doing this again? Math or no math? Yeah. I'm sure he made them promises. And he seems like a good guy. Uh, it's not like they escrowed his airman certificate. Yeah. Exactly. It's true. You know, or, or impounded his airplane or, uh, yeah, it's like, what are they holding opium? I don't know. I mean, you know, they probably have some money of his or of somebody's, but anyways, you may only perform lazy eights and nobody wants to do that. Exactly. Exactly. Welcome, folks, to uncontrolled airspace, the general aviation. Oh, there's a train right there as I'm trying to like do my big open. Huh? Okay. Let the train go by. And I think it's done. It could be worse. It could be Will's former place.

7:00Yeah. Right. Well, yeah, it's right. Well, that's right. That's right. That was a, that was a big train noise. Um, that was fun though. And, and these days, there's actually, I live next to a construction site. They're building an apartment building literally 20 feet outside the window that I'm looking out here. And, uh, depending on what they're doing on the given day, there can be big bangs and conks and, and, and diesel engines and, but they happen not to be working today. Welcome, folks, to uncontrolled airspace, the general aviation podcast. I'm Jack Hodgson coming to you from a construction site. Across the street from the train station, um, where it's starting to become spring. I mean, by, by, by ours, by my standards, I'm sure by Steve standards as well. Um, it's a very, very nice day. It got up to, uh, well, yesterday I got up to like 50. Um, it, it only got to about about 35 today. But, um, signs of spring are in the air. And that's a good thing. Uh, I got your spring right here. It's gonna be 85 in Sarasana tomorrow.

8:00I know. I'm here in our virtual hangar talking with, well, just for that, and Steve goes first. Talking to, uh, from somewhere near, uh, this is what I'm talking about. At a, at a, near, near time, uh, uh, important. Somewhere near Detroit, Michigan is our good friend Steve Tupper. Hi, Steve. How are you doing? I'm very well. Thank you for having me on. Always an honor and a pleasure. Um, you, you, did you, you got some big snow there like last week as well? Right? Did the big snow reach up as far as Detroit? I have no idea. I knew that was going to be. Thank you, Jack. Thank you for that. Thank you for that. Well, but I was in, I was in Texas when it was happening. And I knew it happened. Come on. It's, there's, there's electronic media these days. All right. Um, and you must have got home to see snow banks or were there snow banks? Yes. Well, our, our hangar happened and, and I immediately then went out and, um, uh, flew in a two ship, uh, training a couple of guys. And, and so yeah, the, all the snow that has been piling up for the last couple of months, um, on this row is piled up, you know, at the end of the hangar right near my airplane.

9:07Yeah. I mean, it's, it's been that kind of a winter up here. Uh, I mean, we got, like I said, the last week while I was away, they got about 10 inches of snow here. And about two weeks before that, we got like 14 inches of snow. Um, all getting aside, did you get a big number of snowfall? Didn't you weren't there, but did they get a big snowfall last week there? I heard that it was bigger in like, you know, in that area. I, I believe they did. Uh, the west side of the state, I'm on the east side of the state, but the west side of the state really does get lake effects now. Uh, there are a couple of north-south highways that you, you just don't go near. Yeah. Because it'll, all that humidity comes over the lake. It cools down and it falls on Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and, and Cadillac in places like that. Yeah. Well, welcome. Welcome. Um, and, uh, you, you've been up to some interesting things. We're going to ask you about that in just a minute. But I, I will begrudgingly say hi as well. From somewhere, from somewhere in your Sarasota, Florida is Jeb Burnside.

10:07How much snow did you get down there, Jeb? Floories, man. There's a couple weeks ago. There's a video of, um, city cops or somebody, uh, uh, yeah, in their, in their squad car, like 2 a.m. Seeing flurries and, uh, and I have no doubt that people went lost their minds. I mean, it's just like, well, the traffic's already a problem. So it didn't get any better with that. Yeah. All kidding aside, how are things doing down there? They're, they're spiffy. Um, um, getting ready for spring, such as it is. Uh, and, uh, through the airplane today, had a good time. Um, uh, got some tinkering to do in the hangar. And, uh, yeah, life is good. Cool, very cool. And, and 4,000 iguanas. Um, yes. Uh, well, a few, a few, a few last because some of them froze. And we're given to the Fish and Wildlife, uh, uh, state agency to dispose of. They're, they're apparently invasive species. I don't know.

11:07Flitterians are invasive species. Well, all kidding aside, this is like, I don't know. Do we talk about this on the podcast, Gerber? Do we talk about this offline? Talk about this offline, I think. Yeah. That, that, uh, um, people are. So, no, it was with Malcolm via text. It might have been Malcolm. No joke. There are warnings when this type of weather happens down there that these iguanas will go to sleep basically and fall out of their trees. And they can fall on people and, you know, scare them or even hurt them. But the, the cool part of the story is that some people take it upon themselves to rescue these iguanas to take them to, you know, various shelter kind of, I mean, no joke, they're iguana shelters. And, and the key is they say, don't put the sleeping iguanas in your back seat in order to transport them to the, uh, to the shelter. They, they will fall out. They will wake up in the back seat of your car and you don't want that, all right. So, yeah. The car was coming from inside the car.

12:07Yes. Yes. So, so you have, uh, you have different kinds of problems in the lower, lower-affed cargo. Yes. Then we have in the wing and in the center. Anyone else? Oh, the inside jokes. We're always we're always happy to have you join us on the podcast, but the reason we've invited you to come in today is Because you've been up to it again When you were with us last time, which was actually fairly recently you told us about how you had gone out and gotten an Airbus 320 type rating and you told us a little bit about that experience and that was kind of interesting and I would refer people to that episode For for that story at the in telling that story you alluded to your fantasy that you maybe were thinking about getting a bigger and better and another big iron type rating And and you did

13:08And that you were looking for a buddy to do it with you and you did Steve, what did you do? I did I well I I found out why Some families have more than two children The traumatic and experience though the first one is One can forget soon enough to want to go do it again, but yes, I Now I see what you're saying. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I procured for myself The finest training partner one could possibly ask for Do it do I do it? Do I get to reveal yes? Who who joined you on this on this crazy adventure ladies and gentlemen captain Jeb Burnside? I know so now you you you skipped over the lead. What aircraft did you do this for with Iain? You bet the 747-400. Yeah, it's in beauty. Yeah, that's a thing

14:10Guys they say. Yeah, I know So yeah, you both you both did it and I'm and I've actually talked with with you guys offline about this and I know that it was quite an adventure I want to talk to Jeb first Jeb so So for you I get the feeling that it was a fun adventure and that you enjoyed it But it didn't turn out quite the way you had hoped what happened? No, no it didn't But all the above is certainly true. It was fun. It was great getting to know Steve on a different level It was great sharing this experience with him and I will Certainly never forget a moment of it, but all of that having been said I did not succeed in getting the type rating I went through about half the training and Realized that I needed more training than I'd signed up for Mm-hmm and time and in money would is all it would take you to fix that But I didn't have I had plenty of money to do this with but the time I just did not want to spend yeah

15:14So before you tell us about where it kind of started to go wrong Tell us about what when it was working when it was going well What was the process like what what what was it? Did it just simply involve you know flying or simulators? Or was there more to it than that? basically there Let's call it four phases That I went through the first phase was 40 plus hours of computer-based training on the aircraft its limitations its systems Things of that sort Some of that was excruciating not because of The content but because I'm an editor and and some of the things that I read and saw just did not make sense or could have could have been explained a lot better So there was that but that took

16:17The better part of two weeks to chew through Mm-hmm, and all of that goes was from home. This was from home. Yeah, all of this was done before Steve or I showed up at the training facility Training facility three of them that were involved This is all in in Miami within a few blocks of each other and Anyway, so that was part one part two was in class training on various other systems and trying to assimilate All of all of these systems and how they all work together and why Things worked as they did or work as they do on the 744 The third part was basically procedural training We sit in a mock-up of the cockpit and Goeth literally go through the motions

17:19So you know things have to be done in a sequence You do things for a reason And go through the whole procedures of for example Getting the airplane powered up on the ramp Which is Not an inconsiderable task given the the number of systems and the number of power sources that you have At the third part of the training was in the simulator I'm sorry the fourth part of the training was in the simulator. Yeah, and that's where I fell down Mm-hmm. The The Instrument presentation was nothing at all like I'm accustomed to and I had a It's I don't know how widely known it is the pilot of the bananza that crashed and killed the big bopper and buddy Holly and whatnot was flying Unfamiliar artificial horizon

18:19the it was a spary system and It was basically bass acquires from what this particular pilot had been trained on That's how I felt Looking at this artificial horizon and and the flight director and the the various symbols on the display To which you want to point the airplane. I was trying to to steer the Recognize that now he's trying to steer the flight director as opposed to make the flight director match up with The symbols and I just was having a hard time with it and Instructor and I Talked a good bit after that About you know what what is going on dude kind of thing and We basically agreed that I was gonna need a lot more training, which is fine, you know I don't have any problem with that. I didn't walk in the door thinking I was next to the base

19:19But The training I was going to need was gonna be two or three there were gonna be two or three impacts one Stephen I had a third training partner Who was a flying line pilot for a major trunk carrier And he was training along the same syllabus as we were he obviously came in the door With a lot more experience and a lot more knowledge that he could throw at the problem I however of course did not so any Remedial training that I was going to get was gonna drag him down and Not necessarily that I cared but it wasn't gonna make him very happy or Cooperative I would think right You know if the oral if the roles were reversed. I know how I would have felt and I'm not sure He would have wanted to be the brunt of that but I don't know you know depends but

20:23There were not only will I gonna slow this third guy down. I was gonna slow Steve down and While you know in part I was in reality. I was really there try to support Stephen this I felt kind of bad, but I was just gonna need so much additional training to get past some of these hurdles that it just did not Seemed like the wisest thing to do. Yeah, and I didn't have you know also the The drive that Steve had to get through this and and I make it a success So I washed myself out is the punchline. Did you get as far as motion simulator? Oh, absolutely Yeah, what was that like? I mean He was struggling with it. So maybe this is not a fair question Well, but I think a lot of people Like me like other parts are curious about that experience. What was that like? As close to the real thing as as it could possibly be I mean, that's how it's designed. That's how it's built. That's how it's used

21:25I'm not gonna tell stories at a school But you don't need to actually have flown the real airplane to be time-painted in that point. Yeah, it's a lot But I know that's true. Yeah So the the whole thing you know the ultimate Result wasn't what you were But did you get something out of it? I so for example, you know, I know you went you did some Instrument currency training that's just this morning, right did did the Seven four experience play into that at all at all a very great the am I You know, we're not we don't need to hide Amy, Ilamota. Yeah, is is someone I work with very closely on flight instruction And she's familiar with my with the airplane. She's familiar with how I fly et cetera, et cetera and She commented a couple of times today that you're flying a lot more smoothly. You're flying you stay in the head of the airplane You're you're managing the the buttons a lot better than I've seen you do et cetera, et cetera, and this is

22:29with Basically a failed v-nav system on my airplane right now won't do vertical speedhole, but It was easy, you know, it seemed easy to me to be doing this even after it's been you know month month and a half since I'd flown the Devon air so did I come out of the experience with greater knowledge? Absolutely greater awareness. Yes Do did I can I apply that training on the seven four four to the Devon air? Absolutely It's it's all it's all an airplane. It all has wings. It does things the same basic way One of the features of the seven four that I was not prepared for Was the inertia and that was He's laughing evenly It's a momentum trainer. Yeah, holy

23:35Maybe I'm you know bleep that out, but Maybe I've been spoiled over the years by flying a responsive Lightly coupled airplane But I tend to want to you know set a bank angle and Go divert my attention to something else like a power setting and come back and expect that bank angle will still be there The inertia you got a weight for the airplane to respond to your input And you got to make sure that it doesn't over respond to your control input and that was That was going to take me some time to accustomed myself to which was another part of the of the reason I washed myself out Well, I'm sorry to work out You know, I can't speak for Steve. I had a great time. I learned a lot. I learned a lot about a lot of things

24:37and I'm the better for it There's no question in my mind Would I do it again Yeah, I could certainly consider it. I you know, can we maybe interest you in a king year 350 or something Not a seven forty seven four hundred. Yeah, okay. Well, that's pretty interesting Steven so So you were there too when you had I'm sure some of the same experiences It did ultimately work out for you But you told me earlier that it was a close call tell me about your experience with this Well, let me let me actually let me go back Steve before I before you answer that Why do you do this Steve Look at this you've lowered our good friend Jeb in Oh, yeah, that's just ruining my own life. Yeah, right. I have no no So you you are well known for collecting airplanes and you've collected a lot of airplanes over the years and maybe that's simply the answer But

25:38What's the appeal in all this to you? Oh, just want to prove I can do it I mean that the I Got Airplanes or ATP airplane single engine land And then found that I was you know because of the air shows and the flight instruction Built up the rest of the 1500 and it's like okay, let's let's go Train against an objective standard by people who are Way more talented at way different things than I am And go see if I could do it. I mean the airplane multi-engine land and the a320 type were done simultaneously Which was really stinking hard. I did not get through that program in the a lot of time I diverted into what the yasa calls an MCC or multi-crew cockpit, right? This was the Airbus this is for the Airbus. I spent an extra week and this is a way to get batting practice

26:42right I spent a week in the a320 sim with a motion off and a single instructor pilot then went home for a week and a half then came back and Did all that this one I got done with A little bit of extra training But otherwise pretty much graduated within a day or two of the on time Yeah, so talk us through the process here for example How do you so you set this whole thing up and and then you you Recruit a jab to do it with you. How does one do this? Is there some telephone number you call and you say hi? I'm a Tomahawk pilot and I want to get a 747 type rating can I come over? How does that work? Can I can I can Charlie come out and play? Yeah, no, there's going to be inside jokes all over the place. Yeah, I know First off Jackie. It's all about office supplies. Yeah

27:42Yes, the and and Jeb has has seen My setup, you know the Scotch tape the markers the tape flags I'll have to take care where you park for dinner. Yes You Like did do not I'm gonna I'm gonna do the fuel line It was the same store that we got the office supplies from I know I know What we should have gotten you know a rebate or something validated? Yeah That this will What will cover this in a moment, but I want to make sure I'm doing the through line the Jack wants No, you call them up and you say I would like to drop some money with you in the salesperson says that's wonderful They will check your bona fides and before You know, they they make you fill out the 8710 Jab and I are both ATP airplane multi-engine I when I went for the a 320 they really gave me the third degree you wanted to see logbooks

28:46And all that stuff and I just been through ATP CTP to a thing that Jeb got in under the wire unlike me When he did his original ATP multi-engine But you pay them the money they give you the key for the computer-based training. It's your company called CPAT And that is a fairly standardized form of torture Lessons run maybe ten minutes and then there's a little test at the end of the module And then you take a test at the end of it and it only lights up after you get everything else done It says two attempts remaining Everything else is unlimited attempts. Yeah, so I Study study study and then did attempt one and Past for the the prior time I did this it just stayed open so you could go through and Keep retaking the test or go back through other modules in this case it just stopped you know your head access which is

29:47a little bit prejudicial Then you show up like Jeb said it's a week of what they call systems integration training or SIT Four hours in the classroom four hours on a flat panel Sim Which is cool at Boeing Miami. There's a gift store. Yes in the lobby That has some of my money that I don't even want back I actually bought one of the the seat belt keychains fight hasn't I did you okay the Then after you get through that you get a weekend off and days off just become so precious Yeah, then you start with a full flight simulator. There are six sessions Five of which are we're teaching you stuff the sixth is They call it mock check right. It's with a different instructor and that really is kind of a valuable thing from a if if you're The instructor you've had to rob great guy really learned a lot then went in with the other instructor

30:52And he was the guy who said you know our other guy. I don't think I'm giving up anything What's calling Bob? Yeah, let's let's let's just say that the Sim instructor or the the Train the systems instructor. I don't I don't know. We don't need a job. Not the greatest experience. Yeah, okay. Yeah They're there they're much was left to be desired on the SIT stuff Um Yes, I'm a systems integration training. No, which is to say the first week. Okay, all right Yep, but then Session six is where they sort of make sure you're ready for the check ride We'll call him Bob our third guy our a320 line pilot Said you said you're ready Steve. You need one more session and like you're not wrong And so they sent Bob up for the check ride

31:53And I got to ride along in the back on that and then I did my extra session and then check ride the next day Mm-hmm. Well, which is kind of how the I don't know if that's responsive to the question you had the first phase is okay We're gonna teach you about the systems You have your cockpit posters and you stand in front of them and point to things Is the APU on hydraulics to ox turn all the fuel pumps on packs two and three off puppies beacon The the the aft cargo heat is where all live animals if you're carrying them are and that became in our Known as the puppies switch Okay Yeah, you want to eat the puppies and then your flow afterwards is very similar But you turn the heat back on for the puppies But yeah, answer one of one of Jack's original questions

32:53Yeah, you call up a training facility and said I want to throw some money at you and yeah, I want a type rating Yeah Steve so you had done the the Airbus type rating. How did does this compare to that? So Jeb talked about being a handful Although he's a very very experienced GA pilot and and you know debon air pilot bonanza pilot other aircraft as well It was a handful. What did the 320 stuff help you or yes? Yeah, no way I would have gotten through There's some way did this was better than the experience I had in the first one and in fact even though we were using the simulators of The organization with which I trained on the first one. I very specifically went with another organization The SIT was basically no classroom. It was all let's climb into the sim with no motion and do it that way Having the opportunity for class had that had the classroom been executed a little bit better the level of suffering would have been

33:56Much less. I think Jeb would agree Yeah, I would absolutely and a little bit different I will I will save this as a flight instructor I now know lots of things Sitting in yeah, I have been a laboratory retriever watching TV. Yeah The an understanding when I have primary students at the museum or for civil air patrol or stuff like that I everybody needs to have revisited upon them What it's like to have no idea what you're looking at or what the next thing is and that brought that back home to me aggressively my my instructional methods demeanor My desire to know what's going through the mind of the student Because that really doesn't happen in any part 142 training as near as I can tell 142 is what jab and I did

34:57The then the airlines the part 121 is like their own AQP style training, which is a different thing But yeah 142 is it is a long plastic tube That that is largely driven by money and you really have to There's a lot of self-help involved I mean Jeb seen my hotel run there's five by eight cards everywhere. So yeah, I I put a The guys on this call will understand this I did take a five by eight card and I wrote Brooks was here on it and put it On on the ceiling beam I just realized like yesterday the day before oh crap. I left it there Yeah So Let me ask you so you've done these big motion simulator

35:58Training before tell it again. I think a lot of us pilots are fascinated by that stuff What what is it fun? Or is it just because it's it's a grind you don't get to really experience it as fun This was my first time and I really I'm more interested in Jeb's Response because I think this is first time and one of these things But this was the the big thing for me is my first time we had a rotating Aircrew and this is my first time sitting in the right seat doing F.O. Things the A320 was entirely left seat um, and Kind of understanding how the air crew Works and it really was a chance to just sit there and watch the other guy which I never had a chance to do before but it's It's it's a real challenge And like Jeb said the The 747 is momentum itself. Yeah, yeah, there's no horsing

37:00Yeah, yeah Steve coined this phrase if I'm gonna give him full credit But we're all we all should be familiar with the with the concept of drinking from a firehouse Steve coined the concept of drinking from a fog uh Because there was so much information out there being thrown at us in such a Uh, a way that did not resonate with my way of learning Uh, that it was I was you know, yeah, you were in a fog for a couple of days You didn't know which end was up is you know like Uh, continuing VFR at IMC in a lot of ways Yeah So Steve was there ever a moment when you thought you weren't gonna be able to finish this? Yes, I tapped out twice And they wouldn't let me okay now. What do you mean by that? Well, I I told him Sunday

38:02last Sunday um after um Full motion session two. It's like guys. I don't know how wise this is for me to continue part of this was probably because Bob really you needed somebody in the right seat So the instructor is standing behind you or sitting behind you at this big console playing god And also instructing um and Which is another form of playing god, but okay. Go ahead. Yes. Yes. It is. Yes, it is The two of you are sitting in the seats and One reason that I think they were interested in keeping me on is otherwise Bob would have had to buy seat support Which is to say a qualified person to sit in that seat. Oh, okay, and and do the things. I was not very good at it But um, it was You know, I didn't I didn't want Bob to have to go buy seat support

39:04That's a pain in the blood and you get different guys and they're all a little bit different So they were interested at least marginally in keeping me for that reason um, I Told him hey, I don't know if check rides such a good idea, but at that point apparently they saw something in my flying and said not Steve. I The big thing for me is I hook a ride Um, I There's nothing about this course that is ever going to affect anything for me professionally If I had a job lined up with atlas or something like that then yeah, I would be Yeah, it's stressful as this was it was not stressful from that standpoint. I had a real advantage. I'm gonna count blessings um, but the on Sundays, you know, the day before Thursday the day before the check ride. It's like guys. I don't know if check ride such a good idea It's not Steve you got it in you Keep fighting for it and we think you're gonna so okay Okay, I will that is the last day will speak of tapping out and I shall go forward with a smile and lots of energy

40:09Yeah, and that's that speaks to something that then I didn't really have um If I was if I was a fresh hire and a carrier flying 7400 I would have stuck with it. I would have finished it up But I didn't have anything riding on this yeah, and looking at Everything that I saw for you know, which I just explained a few moments. We are looking It made the most sense for everybody involved Yeah Steve Similar same question I asked Jed, but what do you take away from this that you can apply to you to your real real everyday flying to flying Fafner or to your work as an air boss or or your work as a lawyer at aviation lawyer What do you take away from it in that regard? The the flying skills although different I will say that the check ride includes Flat hand flying and ILS to a landing with two engines on the same wing in operative

41:14Yeah, so there are there are things that I have now experienced that probably make me um a better pilot in general, but the real thing I took away from this was instructional methodology And what it is to learn a really hard thing and to be able to put yourself in the shoes Of a student for whom you know, I get primary students at the museum and gliders and airplanes They're having exactly the same reaction. It's been 25 years since I've been in that position Now I've been back in that position and I I'd much better empathize with students as far as um The professional career as an air boss or as an aviation lawyer. I guess a couple of things I have the credibility of having gone down and been evaluated in transport category aircraft and um and past and you know an FAA approved check ride So I get a certain amount of respect for that

42:15The lastly the aviation law There are many areas of law that you can just talk the talk your whole career and never walk the walk Aviation is one of the few that is not that way because your contact with the client is going to be the chief pilot And they are going to smell you before you even hit the state line Whether I think I While we're giving attributions. I think that's jab With that expression, but you need to have you need to have walked the walk And having the type rating in that experience puts you In a presumptive position of having the expertise that they need And want to have you do their aviation transactions. I mean, it makes a lot of sense Yeah, well What an adventure. Uh, this is just really really cool. I uh Yeah, I mean, is there any to I ask us to other viewers? Are there any aspect of this that I didn't ask about that you want to tell people about um, you know, is it uh, I don't know. Do I miss anything?

43:18Yeah, I guess not. I I um I can't really think of anything that we that we haven't discussed or that um, I want to discuss um You know, again, it was a huge learning experience for me. Uh, it was uh I looked at it as kind of a vacation a working vacation Well, I'm out to learn something and doing something that I enjoy doing um, and uh, let's see how well. Let's see how it goes. Yeah. Yeah. Jeb, did you drive over to Miami or do you? Yeah, speaking of which. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's speaking of which who um I'll kick it off We're we're you know after the um, the first full-motion sim session Um, and in both Jeb and I are way back on our skis after this thing. So we go to this uh, um

44:22um Latin chicken place and the parking lot is jam packed. It's good food. And so we park, you know, right around on the other side of the curb We go in like 45 minutes. Yeah, maybe. Yeah And we walk back out and the immortal word of Jeb was I had a car Okay I'll let Jeb pick it up. Um um Yeah, there was a car, you know In this film When we read it and it's not there now and okay, you know Cuz the way Jeb is this the black one or the black little black bimmer the black bimmer. Okay, good It was the white one. No, the white one. I would have been an apple black to you to see the volcano from from right Okay, so where what happened to the car? I got towed. It was you know, one of those, you know Posted lot. There's a sign way up on the wall. And we'd been in the wall. We'd been in the store A couple of days earlier. It was an office supply store. We'd been in there buying off. We bought a printer in there

45:25You know, and so you know, but um came out and sure enough Hey, dude, you got my car. What kind of the black BMW? Yeah, we got it Where are you? You know, steams right in bed as I repeat it, you know Yeah, a lot of complexity. I think you were you hadn't anticipated. Yeah, um But um, you know, that was part of the adventure It was they're good at that in my way. Yeah, I had forgotten I was I I I remarked to Jeb as we're in the lift on the way to to the impound lot It's like that happens so recently. It will not surprise me if we catch up Like to to the tow truck with your car on it. Wow Uh, it was it was it was a very efficient operation. I do have to you know um We give them some respect in that regard. Yeah, game represent game recognizes game. Okay

46:30All right, and and then to cap the whole thing off you you came away with some really great um what Boeing gift shop. I got some swag. Yeah, absolutely Yeah, yeah, okay Well, yeah, all right. I'm afraid to ask this this next last question. What's next First you I don't know you're still licking your wounds both of you. I'm still licking my wounds. I'll you know I'm not I'm not bashful um I have I have thought about that though and um You know, I wasn't half kidding about King year 350 um Honda jet series jet um Both of which I think are kind of pricey and or Difficult to schedule especially if you don't happen to own one um

47:31I could see a citation Mustang or or uh single pilot citation one or two something like that uh as um As a goal But uh do I have my heart set on something like that now? Yeah, I'd drive up to look grab up to Kassimi and do a Mustang Mustang Well, there's that too uh I don't know why they just don't you know STC that thing for less than 12,500 pounds, but that's on another top. All right Steve, how about you have you thought about what your next adventure is? I am still postpartum It will Requires some healing um and I I need or like read a letter to myself about you know that I need to Then like any good lawyer I I should instead develop some other kind of habit in instead of this Um, but the no, I've got a

48:31The immediate goal is I need to make friends with the museum's Steerman Um, I'm well qualified in the thing at least on paper, but I need to just get out and do the make friends with the airplane Spend 10 hours goofing around in the pattern stuff like that. I don't have any Here's the nice thing about the 747 there if I never get another Transport category type I will have done so in the 747 and nobody could Not that anybody would but nobody would look sideways at me for not doing another one having already done the 747 That's another benefit of having done this jet instead of any other The you know, maybe someday the a380 just to get Terry lutes off my back. I know he doesn't listen, but maybe he will now Um, but otherwise it's uh uh, I i'm gonna upgrade my airboss Uh, L.O.A. at some point. I'm out at luke air for or yeah luke air for space next month this month

49:35And then thunder of renewable and stuff like that. I just rewrote a big program for um I cast for the FAA and that's I think where the energy is gonna go for the meantime and Fodd is like 250 hours or so away from that magic 1500 And so of course is your son. Yeah. Yeah, his name is I'm initiated. Yes, it's becoming important now. It's Steve. I might have a job opportunity or something like that What's your son's actual name? So I got to be a little yeah having a call signs cool, but yeah His name is Nicholas Tupper. His call sign is Fodd. His mother calls him Fodd That's great. What have you done to your kids? Do they what uh, your daughter is a man? I don't tell me it's uh, that's it's a really good one. What is it? Explosion boom. No, what's your daughter's wooden deadly deadly. Yes. Okay. You tell every boyfriend that I'm sure and uh No, I just meet the young man on the porch and with a couple of parachutes and say

50:37Deadly is not ready just yet, but grab one of these and hop in the car. We're gonna run to the airport real quick All right Well, thank you both of you You have both lived the dream or at least some part of it and It's very very cool and I thank you for sharing that with us. That's that's pretty interesting Anything else you want to add before we draw. I think we're done here. I think I think we've got a lot of time Yeah, no, I didn't know we were done done. I think we're done done I think we're done done. Thank you guys. It's uh, it's always fun to get together and talk and this was particularly interesting I'm there was no way I'm going to be able to do such a thing, but did you make it sound? I mean with all the challenges you make it sound like a really fascinating thing to try again for me It was just an incredible learning experience um And and now that I think about it. I listen to what Steve had to say um I'm not an instructor, but I can certainly see the the

51:42um How should I put the outcome of different instructional methods mm-hmm. Yeah And uh, Steve any less words? It will surprise no one to learn that I already held Jeb Burnside in the very highest of regards Now I have he and I have gone into actual combat Shoulder to shoulder and if it's possible my estimation of this man Has done nothing but grow holy crap Jeb but a pleasure I appreciate that and it's same here. Uh, I can't thank of anyone who I would rather go through this with And uh, you know down the road if you know We dream up the right type and the right timing I would definitely do it again, and I would want you along with me honored and flattered sir Thank you guys. That's great That's uh, well that's Steve Tupper steves an ATP in both single engine and multi-engine airplanes with type ratings in an a320 The b747400 and dc3

52:42He's a nathy master cfi and airplanes and gliders and is the 2026 east michigan fisto cfi of the year I didn't know that steve until you just told me that recently although it's only february 2026 I mean is is someone going to catch up with you and overtake you here or is this applied for the whole year? Whole year applications were like november December I joke that's very very impressive and uh, but I'm not terribly surprised steve is also an air boss and recently rewrote the program under which the fAA grants air bus Lois Loas letters of authorization correct, okay He'll be on the boss stand at luke days near phoenix, arizona in march and thunder over luaville in april He makes his living as a lawyer handling among other things aviation transactions and disputes more information about that is available at dub dub dub type Tupper firm to you ppr f-i-r-m com

53:43And jibburnside jib is a freelance aviation writer and editor who's been active at avweb aviation safety magazine general aviation news and many many others He's an airline transport pilot flies a beach debonair and is a recipient of the fAA right brothers master pilot award And I am jack Hodgson. I'm a private pilot freelance writer and a digital media producer I create both aviation and non aviation content This podcast uh, and also the vectors newsletter that we create uh, and a lot of other ucap content are and always will be free for all But it takes some time and resources for us to do this and we'd like to be able to dedicate even more time to doing it We're asking you to consider becoming a financial supporter of uncontrolled airspace Now if you're unable to make any sort of financial contribution to the ucap world We understand don't worry. Please enjoy all of it But if you do have the ability to support this stuff, please consider doing so A monthly donation of as little as five dollars less than a single visit to starbucks is a big show of support for what we're doing

54:46So please go to our patreon page at patreon.com slash uncontrolled airspace and do what you can thanks And jib do you have any uh words of wisdom for us? I do I I I've said this some of this before. I'm going to add some to it No flight plan survives the second handoff, especially on a checkride There you go. Well, all right way we wait we read avid is that's enough talking. Let's go fly in