Twenty

0:00So here we are. Here we are. It's, it's, yeah, as you correctly noted and attacked a couple of days ago, it's been a long strange trip. A long strange trip. And as you correctly noted, though, it's probably not over yet, but it's not over yet. Listeners, we, Jim and I are here today with a little impromptu episode that is going to be a little bit different than our usual episode. A very special episode. A very special episode that this past weekend was the 20th anniversary of the first episode of Uncontrolled Airspace. One more year we could have a drink. And we can have a drink on strike. And we're working on some special content that we will hopefully complete and post one of these days, sort of looking back at some of the moments that we particularly like. And, and I don't know, we haven't quite, part of the reason we're taking our time to do this because we haven't quite figured out what the format is, I think, but, but we want to do something that kind

1:02of celebrates the, the history of this podcast and, and some of the, you know, great people we work with over the years and, and that kind of thing. And so we're working on that, but it's not coming together as quickly as I expected it to anyways. And so, Jeb and I were talking and we said, well, when we just do a quick, you know, brief episode, just talking a little bit about some of our memories and, and some of the things that, that were, you know, I don't know, particularly a guest. I was going to say. Properly embarrassed by it. Yeah, right. So, I don't know exactly how to start this. I, you know, I went back have you have, have you listened to episode one? I'm not. I'm not. It's really, and I have not either, but I've listened to it a number of times over the years. And, and it's really almost shocking to listen to the first 10 or 10 minutes or so. I mean, it's, this is true of the whole episode about one, but I can't bring myself to listen more than 10 or 15 minutes. We were so serious, man. We were like, it was, we had not yet discovered

2:03our banter yet, in episode one. And so we, I don't know, we thought we were doing an episode of, I'll have to go back and listen to it. I believe you. Yeah. I believe you. Yeah. It's a, you know, well, we all had jobs. Yeah. Well, but we also, and, you know, we would truly, I mean, I don't, not to chew our own wharner. We were pioneers in podcasting. I mean, podcasting wasn't hardly two or three years old at that point. Right. All right. And, and so, you know, we were, and, and nobody, you know, a few people had done aviation podcasts, but I don't think anybody really kind of figured out what, what the, the voice was, but, yeah, and we're, I think we're still trying to figure out what the voice is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or you're giving up. We're just doing this. Well, what exactly? We, we've kind of found our niche and, and found our lane and we're staying in, try to stay in our line. So I went back and here's a couple of, here's a couple of little data points for you, if you will. All right. We recorded that first episode on Tuesday, August 22nd, 2006.

3:08All right. It got posted the very next day, the 23rd. And of course, it wasn't called uncontrolled airspace at that time. We didn't even have any. We called it the unnamed aviation podcasters, something like that. So two or three, it was episode three, where we announced the name. I don't do remember. I remember the, the process we went through. I remember some of that. Yeah. You were the one who came to us with uncontrolled airspace. I did. And it was perfect. I see. I, I, I, I, I, I've loved it since the first time moment. I popped into my head. But it was a real process to get there. Oh, yeah. We, we, you know, we, we had, we had talked, you know, obviously we were talking offline and we were talking an email and we were brainstorming different ideas. And I don't know how you were doing it. I, I spent a lot of time surfing the internet for like aviation-related glossaries. I was looking for aviation words. All right. You know, and, and we were searching around. And I can't remember. There were a few leaders back then. And I think we were, and we had gone like two or three weeks. And we were on the verge of settling

4:11for one that was okay, but we didn't love. And I just wasn't giving up. And I went back in. I found yet another aviation glossary. And I'm, I'm scrolling through it. And obviously it's an alphabetical order. So I'm, I have to get almost all the way to the end before I come across the term uncontrolled airspace. And I go, oh, there it is right there. That's the one right there. You know, that and you got it. And then you go do a quick search on the internet to see if anybody else has used it in some way, shape or form to see if it's available. Unfortunately, it was and the, and the URL is available. So yeah, I was episode three that we finally officially gave the podcast its name. One other date, a bit of trivia. Long time listeners will know part of the, the UCAP lore is that we, we sort of envisioned. We kind of came up with the idea for doing the podcast while we were driving. We were all together at Oshkosh that particular year. And we were driving to the sushi restaurant. And, and, and we're talking about doing it. And I went back there.

5:11Some people know I'm a pretty avid journal keeper. And so I was able to go back into my calendar and back into my journal and find a note about redrove to the sushi restaurant. That was, women I had the day here, or is it? It was on Saturday, July 22nd 2006 was the evening that we, the three of us drove, I believe in Dave's rental cars, my guess. You had a, you know, or a courtesy car. Looked courtesy car. Yeah. Now, a year earlier. Yeah. Was the first time that the idea of us doing a podcast had, had ever been discussed between the three of us. Yes. A year earlier. And, and I will not lie. My react, my initial reaction was what's a podcast? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, and of course, David, I, and I, as I remember this, you were in the car, too,

6:15but is it is I remember this, this is the first year of this. Dave and I were going at it, Hammer and Talks on some topic, which I'm some, some esoterica that no one, a can remember and B has amounted to anything. And you're in the back seat saying, guys, this would make a great podcast. And I'm saying, what's a podcast? Dave was like, diddo. And, and, and we were like, no, no, no, no, we have an important conversation going on here. Let us finish it. Yeah. And we, you know, continued zooming off to, to, to, Appleton for sushi. Fast forward 365 days. Yeah. And we're doing the same freaking thing. Same Saturday night. Could have been the same courtesy car. Mm-hmm. Just the three of us, and we're doing all this because we put the first issue of every venture today to bed. Yep. And, same conversation, David are going at Hammer and Talk. And,

7:20you're like, guys, I'm serious. You know, we talked about this a year ago. This would make a great podcast. And we're like, we, we should maybe humor him. Hey, take it. Anyway, get it. Well, okay. And you somehow, cajole us into, into meeting online at some future date. And, and we did on the 22nd of, of, of, of, of O6. Yep. Of August. Yeah. And here we are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The technology was very, well, you, so you talk about not knowing what a podcast, and you weren't alone. I mean, it was hardly anybody knew what a podcast was. And we, back in those days, I'm, and I'm sure you and Dave had the same experience, which when you tell people we were doing this podcast about, about general aviation, the very next thing you'd have to do is describe what a podcast was. Right. And it was, it was quite a few years where you still had to do that. And then, yeah. Somewhere about, I don't know, 10, 10 years ago or so, podcasting kind

8:22of broke out of its containment. And, and suddenly everybody knew what a podcast was. And now, pot, now it's just a, it's a very different thing. It's just a very different market. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it's good. I mean, it's, I'm not suggesting it's a bad. It's just, you know, I mean, it's, it's, it's an important part of the media landscape these days, because there are so many people presenting so many views, you know, not all of them, all of them to my liking, but, but, but that's not, not all of them worth sharing either. Yeah. But, but the point is to get the word out. And so, podcasting, but we were pioneers back then. And, you know, I'm, I'm, you know, we should all, we should be proud of that. Yeah. I am proud of that. And so, yeah. So, we, that was back in 2006. And we've done a lot. I spent the morning kind of trying to think of what are my key memories, things that I've, I particularly have fond recollection of during over these 20 years. And I know I've

9:22missed stuff because there's been so much. But I'm just going to start by saying one of the episodes that I have very fond memories are was episode 200. I think you probably remember episode 200 in that we did it. It was at, at Oshkosh. We had, we were working with, with our friends at EA, and they had arranged for us to do it before a live audience in one of the little farm tents there. And, and that was the, that was the one where Charlie and Farid gave us the, the, the thing of beers. Right. 200 beers. Yeah. There had to be 200 beers. I don't think 200 made it out of a two. Yeah. Well, maybe not. Well, you know, but, but that's that led to the other thing that's a very fond memory from that moment, which was that we, so now we're, it's, it's early in the week at Oshkosh. We've got all these beers, no way in the world we're going to drink all these beers in time we have left. And I, I'm sure I

10:24was driving, but you guys were flying. So we, we're trying to do what we're going to do the beers. We said, why don't we give them away? Why don't we hold a party? And so we scrambled. Fortunately, this was the heyday of social media. And we, we basically told everybody we're going to gather on this particular piece of grass over the, it's just outside the airport fence. Because we got all these beers come on over. And that was the beginning of the tie down party. Right. That has become a really fond part of the. So anyways, I came across pictures of the, I'll put a link in the show notes to this episode. I was digging through, you know, we've been, you know, it's part of this whole retrospective that we're trying to put together. We're digging through old show notes. And I came across the, I was reading the show note for episode 200. And it contained a link to Jeff Ward posted in his, what's the name of that photo collection service that still exists, but not flicker, flicker, flicker, flicker. He had posted in flicker a bunch of pictures from that 200 episode. All right. Really? Yeah. And I'm thinking this link

11:28can't possibly still work. I click on it and it does. And there's all those pictures from episode 200. Yeah. Oh my. Yeah. And you know, it was you and me and Dave and Amy was with us. And and and and. Wimbrat and Rick. And people in the audience. So we have a lot of people I recognized from the over the years were in the audience. Tom Poboresni came by and visited us. Did he? Yep. Yep. He was. Wow. He was there. He was in the pictures and he was on the episode. And so that was it. That's a very pleasant memory for me. I like that. I had that. They, they, they built this special frame to hold the beers. All right. It was basically this wooden box that had the number 200 cut out of it. And they had the beers all slotted into the numbers 200. And I, I kept that frame. I had it for years. And it's been sitting at at lookout point. Unfortunately, it's been sitting outdoors at lookout point. And unfortunately, it's kind of disintegrated. But that's a phone memory. What do you do? Any particular phone memories over the years? Well,

12:31those were certainly I was at 200 the early days kind of thing. I think the first time we were on the flight line at Ashkosh in the observe the the observers booth or whatever is called. Yeah. That was a very special. It really was. For early was being that close to the runway being a very small part of that that show. Yeah. That was that was a big deal. 200 of course. And doing that doing, you know, anything basically Ashkosh live was always a special. And you could say the same about the early days at Sunn and Fawn. You could say the same about current days at Sunn Fawn also. But they are they have different characters that they they are different in

13:34in so many ways from from those early days when we were going live. Yeah. 400 of course. 400 is definitely on my list. What was special about 400? Well, we got into airplane and just been in the airplane. Yeah. I mean, people may not know that. We did an episode where basically we we plugged recording gear into your airplanes intercom system. And we went flying. And we were all together at your how you me and Dave were both all there. I believe it was in the run up to Sunn and Fawn. You'd be four after I forget which. But. And so we we you know put install all this gear in your airplane. And and then when flying and talked too much while we were flying because you were trying to also interact with ATC and operate the aircraft. And you were very understanding and very good at at at you know dealing with that that cuck-off. And even though Dave and I were genuinely trying to be you know, but I did say that now. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm sure the I'm sure the

14:39raw recording of that. We oh yeah. Right. So that even still exists. But the episode is still out there for sure. And so we went flying. We went up to first we flew up to St. Augustine to visit James Wimbrandt and and and and visited with him at his airport up there. When and got to Chancellor's Heist Hanger and and that kind of thing. And that was kind of fun. And and then got back in the airplane and flew south past a hidden river all the way down to Fort Myers where we went to visit Amy. And Amy greeted us. So it's obviously it's a like your your place. It's an airport community where you land on the runway and then start taxing on the city streets so to speak you know the neighborhood streets. And so we taxied down the street to her house turned into her driveway and she's standing in the driveway greeting us with a cake in her hands that she's making. Of course. And so we shut down and and got out and visited with her for a while and and and recorded some more of the stuff

15:39with her and then finally mounted up and and went back to hidden river. It was a great episode. It really worked out well. I you know it it there were so many ways you could have gone wrong from a tech point. Oh yeah. I'll kaizy wise that could have gone on but but and you know we can do that again too. Yeah we should. You should. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Figure out a reason to do that. Yeah. Before you go on I got one stat that I meant to mention earlier when I was doing stats. FYI so we in the early days the every episode has a number associated with it. All right. The number associated with this one I believe is is is is 1127. In the early days of the podcast that number sort of basically indicated how many episodes we had done but it quickly got out of sync for a couple of different reasons. One is that there were occasionally episodes that had been assigned one of those numbers that didn't get posted the infamous Ponka City one where we had huge technical problems and had to throw it all away but the number had already been assigned. There

16:44were a few that just playing disappeared and then the other thing is that for the the show the daily episodes that we do at Oshkosh and Sun and Fun we gave them a singular number each year we'd give them a singular number and then put a letter after them all right here which by the way I don't remember children's that that was an atus reference to me always all right it was like you got information alpha you get information Bravo that's what I was always going for that so that messed up the numbering so so pretty quickly the numbers don't tell you how many episodes there are no absolutely yeah and then what happened was we were sneaking up on episode 500 or at least episode numbered 500 and and we had done a thing obviously for all of the hundreds and so we were getting we were preparing ourselves to do something for episode 500 and and and it was almost certainly going to happen at Sun and Fun in 2020 but we all know what happened for Sun and Friday 2020 all right and so when the pandemic hit and we weren't going there to do it we said well

17:50let's just postpone 500 what when we get to 500 we won't do an episode 500 we're going to jump up to episode we're going to call the episode 1000 I think is what we went to and you know because this pandemic isn't going to last a few but a few months so so we'll come back to and we'll do the 500 at some point so then the numbers are really out of whack all right anyways long story point is recently I went into our database of episodes and I counted every single episode file you know audio file that we posted even the alpha even the daily yep so I so I so I I counted all of the daily as separate ones so this is a total count of every audio file slash episode that we've been waiting for and this one here will be 783 seriously yeah this is the 783rd episode that's like a new it's like one of the new area codes yeah I know right yeah so 783

18:50and I don't know where you know we you know 775 came and went I didn't even notice so we just said something but 7 or 83 episodes so anyways right what else do you have that stands out in your memory from these 20 years yeah the we've did we've done a lot of just tried to do a lot of different things over the years we've interviewed untold numbers of people yep either either in person sitting at a picnic table at an ashkosh or you know something like that at Sun and Fond or other events that we've been to one that stands out for so many reasons is the first episode we did live from Sun and Fond with they shall better yeah and Dave didn't have the radio

19:53station oh he had the radio station and put it in quotes but he did not have the radio station building yes they were they were in a little trailers they were exactly just it was like they opened the back door and put a put a couple put a table and a couple of chairs out there and then we were and so it was the first time we had done anything live at Sun and Fond I'm not sure of the first time we'd done anything live ever I think it was hey we started we started this in in in ashkosh will continue at Sun and Fond I think that was one of the first ones we ever did live so certainly one of the first on location yeah certainly because that was because our first doing the podcast didn't come to late that summer that's true that would have been spring and yeah it was spring of oh seven okay okay and and we're literally standing we're literally right outside behind the F A bill and on next to the pavement and there's all kinds of people throngs

20:58of people walking by and Dave see someone he knows um very valentine oh yeah and and pulls Barry into it again live Barry of course had no idea what he was getting himself into and was was just an incredibly good sport about it he was and he told one of my favorite stories of over the years but go ahead what what what what what what what what what what what what was that story that was the episode where he came up with the he told the three airplanes yeah three airplanes yeah fast slowing upside down and yeah yeah yeah um I remember there was another big name guest there too who was it I might have been one of the uh serious brothers there none that could have been could have been one of the clap Myers clap might it could have been um whoever was in charge of the show that time uh I remember having having uh some interaction with him could have been could have been you know some different year I don't remember um so there's all that there there's also um a couple of people involved with the radio station one woman who I was I

22:09I should I should die a burning death in some fashion but she was beloved by many and and and uh new everybody and uh helped David um help shall better out Higden newer very well and I cannot remember her name why she was part of Bonnie Bonnie yes yeah and I think it was the other way around I think Bonnie was one of the founders of the radio station did it he shall better helped her in those days okay um either way she was very supportive oh yeah and I remember talking with her on a podcast got it been yep um so there's all that I you know in a lot of ways it all kind of runs together yeah because it's all been um good it's all been productive it's all been rewarding yeah one of the one of the things that uh it isn't a specific podcast but is a specific result of the podcast is the time you and I were in line for something you're gonna crowd somewhere at Ashkosh

23:16and we were talking back and forth and the guy in front of us turns around and says your jack and your jab I listen to the podcast all the time yep and we were like dums truck yeah um yeah yeah that happened a couple of times over the years and it was always it was the first time it happened you and I were together when I happened yeah it's like whoa yeah um we're not worthy yeah yeah so that was that was cool stuff going out doing out into the world like that that was that first summer um going to sun and fun and then going to the lips we did the we did one in Venice um with another one at sea bring come across where was it I came across a picture from that too it might have been on on on Jeff Hordes flicker as well picture from that in that restaurant in Venice that we got to do in Venice yeah um of course all the tie down parties were everybody guess oh yeah um yeah the listeners clearly enjoy the tie down party we I know

24:17I'm pretty sure you too we enjoy meeting the listeners there I feel badly that we aren't able to do the tie down party more often for people because they seem to enjoy it and yes but uh yeah well it was always well attended and we always had fun um we we've had some incredible things occur yeah at the tie down parties um wind brand and Reynolds doing uh rock your wings or uh yeah bringing their guitars bringing their guitars and singing singing songs um um um the um the year the b-17 oh yeah took off on two seven and banked to the right and we could look right into the cockpit yeah we're right over our heads it was awesome yeah I was like two or three hundred feet away yeah it was just a magnificent people just ask why why do you go back to the spaspacious and when we stopped staying in the in the super eight um why do you keep going back there and I said that's why that b-17 is basically the the the poster child for why we

25:22go back to that spot um and uh by the way super eight so no longer super eight I was uh I don't know how I came across it it's been it's been absorbed by a bigger chain I forget what it's called quality in or something like that um but uh it looks the same other than the signage being different but yeah I'm sure it's pretty much the same yeah um but yeah um what else no I had another one here what was it I had also like the ones from the day you know you you talked about the the great episodes from the early on from at Ashkosh from that from that that balcony that deck overlooking the taxiway and that really was outstanding um I went I was I was digging through some old episodes earlier today trying to figure out which episode that was um because the thing that was notable for me be being the tech tech guy the beating sound guy all right um so that was the old I called the EA radio building I don't know if that was the announcer stand as well that was the announcer stand

26:23is that I'm trying to remember the words but the announcer stands yes what I remember now and it was right there it's gone now they've torn that yeah it was on the fried line it was the way the other side of the flight line yeah I mean it was right there but it was it was people who know the air venture grounds it was basically at the brown arch right um and the brown arch right there is one of the key taxiways that people line up for takeoff when people are departing Ashkosh and so this particular I think it was a morning but whatever time of day it was um there were a lot of departures happening both both G.A. aircraft and warbirds and you know this was this was a Sunday morning this was the last day yeah and we put we put the newspaper to bed and we were in party mode and so we're up there on that little balcony looking down on the the taxiway and the intersection the primary intersection where the airplanes were being waved out onto the on to the runway and the noise it was so loud yeah all right it was so loud and and what happened is like these these T6s and things would come down and do their run-up route in front of us and we literally could not hear each other talk I mean

27:27we're wearing headphones with nice broadcast microphones all right and even in that situation we could not hear each other talk when these airplanes were doing their big time run-ups um and I was really nervous about whether this was going to work and I was thrilled later when I heard the audio that I mean it's loud it's definitely noisy but you could hear us and and the energy of that episode was just outstanding that was a great episode um and we went back there a handful of times until that building was torn down and I don't think it was ever quite as exciting as that one particular day no not it wasn't it was that yeah and I don't know if it was the first year or the second year but it was early on of our time we were still yeah we were still at the air bridge today also yeah and we still um kind of had that imprimatur of being air bench today staff and that was one of the reads we were able to get the the observers yeah yeah announcers but if I should you mentioned that first episode then they moved you know they built another structure yeah

28:28the further south yeah um and I don't I don't know if that was like home builders headquarters or or some some such structure the one where we did the episode for quite a while that that's that's that's that is definitely the announcer stand I think they call the communications building or something okay well it was it was beefed up it was a different building I think no well okay ultimately they ended up with the building and it built that purpose that's what that's the one I'm thinking yeah right yeah and we did it from that deck for a bunch of years um but it wasn't and definitely airplanes were taxing in front of us and that was cool um and we had the runway right in front of us but we didn't have the run-ups right in front of us which is kind of a mix blessing right right did we ever have senator inhoff as a guest I don't believe we did I don't think we did no I don't think so because I remember interviewing him asked that building asked that new communications building on the deck but I know it was not for that particular action I know

29:33it was not for the podcast yeah no I don't believe we've ever we've ever had him on um we had a lot of really interesting people of course um the the leaders of the leadership of of EA and Sun and Fun visited with us off and on over the years and that was a lot of fun and uh and and just our our our gang of you know misfit toys or whatever you want to call them um you know there are two wells in there do wells right um a lot of great people a lot of people yeah people we knew beforehand and people we met after we started doing this and it's quite a crowd many of them have become our guest co-hosts since we lost day so that's kind of cool um it was sorry I wanted oh I will I will say just as an aside here um um I in part in part of our uh 20 year retrospective project I've been listening some old episodes um and um it's it's it's really amazing to hear and talk with Dave again yeah um

30:40um that was kind of rejuvenating in a way um yeah I know and and and recall those memories and did I really did we really say that oh my god why aren't we in jail yeah I don't know what in jail but why do we get I don't know what cancel or something like that yeah yeah um well that's the way the cancel podcasters Jack they put them in jail okay if you say so um um uh you you alluded to the great interviews that we did like for example in Barry Van Lawnton Barry Valentine came to this that time and and told us the really memorable um everybody needs to own three airplanes a fast one a slow one and an upside down and that's a great moment we'll put a link to that in the show notes um another great episode um was a little bit different tone was when Amy was generous enough to tell us her ditching story um which is quite a dramatic story of when her what was it 182 um what it is 210 210 um lost its engine on on takeoff from

31:45key rest out over the ocean I mean basically they went down in the water um and uh quite a harrowing story situation and she was very generous in telling us that story um and and you could hear in her voice you know she we I talked her before we even did that I said are you sure are you gonna be okay telling the story is this this is a very personal thing um because it was not only her in a very stressful moment her her kid at least one of her daughters was with them in the airplane and so I said are you okay with telling the story and she said yeah I am I uh uh but when you heard her telling the story you could hear in her voice that it was you know it was kind of coming back to her and so all six seats of that that says the 210 were had people in yeah all of them women yeah um and um they weren't five miles I don't think from key west when that engine let go yeah and did not have that much altitude there wasn't anywhere to go yeah uh and they all swam away with no injuries yeah and that to me uh is just incredible and and uh um a you know kudos to

32:56uh to Amy kudos to uh the Adelts aboard who helped get all the all the children out kudos to uh the the private boat that came saw the uh the event and came and and uh supported them and kudos to EMTs emergency yeah crews the whole thing was just um um the way it's supposed to work if you're gonna have an engine failure that's the way you want it to work right right yeah so that was a great episode and it's one of the ones that people talked to me mentioned to me as much as almost any of the ones that that others remember um episode 400 was a great episode um the uh oh I had another one what was it um oh um so a couple of years ago uh Drew Polly told us the story about when he um nearly went into the trees um off the takeoff end of uh I believe it was south like Tahoe um because the the winds messed him up um and uh again I you know uh likewise I talked to him beforehand

34:02I say I you're really gonna be are you okay telling the story and he said yes yes I am and and in both cases I'm I'm happy that we did that because I think it's a little bit instructional um it it helps people understand you know the risks it helps people understand the the outcomes it helps people understand why you're training is so important it helps there's a lot of good that comes out of people telling these stories and so I thank them both for the generosity of telling those stories um the episode relatively recently of you and Steve Tupper telling the story of your your 7.7 training um is is another episode that's getting a lot of of of uh kudos from people and and and rightly so it was a fun episode and uh and and it was a really interesting adventure that you guys went on and and and and then told us about so that was a good one what else you got anything else um um well I I I guess I just want to uh remember and thank and and uh

35:08um comment on I kind of alluded to this earlier in this episode but um our listeners they've been supportive they've they've given us input they've been they've been fair in their critiques um we've we've tried to meet their expectations I hope we have but um we wouldn't be here doing a 20th anniversary commentary slash episode if it hadn't been for our listeners yeah and and uh the punishment will continue until morale improves I know right yeah so um just be advised that we're not going anywhere no we're not well and and you know in fairness or in in full disclosure we've talked about this you and I have we have and uh and and we've toyed we know we're going to keep doing this is the time come you know I like a few of you I mean certainly when after when Dave passed we were both in agreement that we were going to keep doing it we were going to stop it

36:10because Dave passed that that would not be a good thing I'm not a good legacy to leave no and so we were happy to continue it then but but over the years we've been thinking you know it's like 10 years is this enough for we done um and and um numerous times we reached out to listeners you you know who were as you said I've been very very supportive and we said listen is this still working for you and and the answer was like shockingly unanimous they were all saying yes this is great keep doing it and so we kept doing it and and we have kept doing it and and then a couple of years ago we kind of said early as I said I don't know how you what you were thinking when I was thinking okay you know we're this close we have to go to 20 we have to make it to 20 we can't come this far and stop now so we kept doing it um up to 20 and and I had been toying with the idea of maybe that was time to sunset the whole thing and and you talked me out of it um and I'm glad you did um because once I got to thinking about it with you know with my head on straight I realized no I don't want to stop it either all right there's still things to be done here um and so we're we're not done we're not

37:10done you know like I said the the beatings will continue and um we made change things around it I mean we've changed the the the podcast has changed over the years anyways all right um if the format has changed slightly over the years you know we mean things are there features of common gone um you know and and since we lost Dave adding the the guest hosts is a changing format but I think and I think we're going to do a little more than that um we're going to continue I think to do these sort of we're not this one this is a special case but the what I call the talk show the panel episodes where we have you know you me and and and and Amy and other guest hosts um do do the episodes um and I think we're going to continue to do those but I think we're also going to maybe mix it up a little bit with episodes that are a little bit more single single issue oriented maybe a little bit more like many documentaries um a little bit more like um you know telling a not exactly a scripted story but a story that we've you know thought out a little bit in advance

38:13and collected research and that kind of thing or we're going to mix it up a little bit so uncontrolled airspace is going to continue but I think it's going to evolve a bit um in in um the next few years a bit more than it has a bit more than it has and and on that note I just want to announce here that um and part of that change is that uh we're going to we did we've done a couple of live video live streams over the years um they've they've been well received but for various reasons we haven't continued with them very often um but we're going to try it again we're going to do another one so um if you're all interested um we're going to do a you cap video live stream on uh Wednesday evenings September 16th at seven p.m. eastern time um it'll be live streamed on on our you on uncontrolled airspace youtube channel so uh if you're if you're interested in watching that live we'll we'll be paying attention to the chat to the live uh live stream chat so if anybody has questions or or feedback for us while we're doing it um it's going to be you me and Amy at least and probably a couple others um from the uh from those names you all are

39:18were well understood yeah from the well they're from the the uh from the group uh uh uh uh you can't can't yeah right yeah the gang as I've called them since the very very beginning of the right thing you know so uh so make a note in your calendar Wednesday September 16th seven p.m. eastern time on youtube.com slash uncontrolled airspace is our channel there um and uh you could go there and subscribe now pay attention to our social media pay attention to our patreon pay attention to the you cap home page for details on on this live stream but probably it's going to be Wednesday September 16th at seven p.m. eastern time okay that'll be fun yeah that will be fun yeah hi this is Jack from the future I just wanted to jump in here and let you know that we've already made a change to the schedule of this you cap video live stream it won't be on September 17th instead it will be on September 30th still seven p.m. eastern time and still with jeb Amy and me plus some other friends keep an eye on the you cap home page for updates on this and

40:21other special you cap happenings I hope you'll be able to join us put some faces to those voices now back to the regularly scheduled programming before we go yeah um on a personal note um I want to recognize you jack um for both the foresight the energy um the experience you brought to it uh and and all the hard work that you've done by far uh way and above that the input that that david and I have uh produced to make this podcast a success it is you are the guy you are the driving force behind this podcast and uh I want that recognized uh by it's certainly by me but by our listeners and I just want to publicly thank you for all the hard work that you've put in over those years thank you that's that's very kind of you I appreciate that um I I'm proud of

41:22the work that I've put into this thing and I'm and I'm proud that the the ideas I had panned out um and and part of the reason they panned out was because of the chemistry that you and Dave brought to the whole thing um you know you guys were obviously friends beforehand three of us were short of friends beforehand you two much longer um and uh you know whatever I did and I will acknowledge that I did some stuff um the the the chemistry and the expertise and the sense of humor and whatnot that that you and Dave Higman brought to this thing were were really important as well um you know um I I don't think it would have been what it was without all three of us no it would not we wouldn't we wouldn't have gotten to 20 years without all three of us yeah uh no question about it but um um you know it was your idea and it's your fault okay all right well all right um you're you're now to do what you're going to

42:23have to do anyways uh thank you folks um it's a long-stream trip um and uh not done yet um and 20 years I I don't think there's anything I've done in my life you know I mean you you're a family guy you got kids so you you know you're not unfamiliar with the idea of a 20-year long project uh this has been unique for me um and uh you know I'm I'm pretty pleased with it all and uh both the both the catalog we've created and the relationships we've we've you know built are very important to me so anyways all right enough with that that's um thank you everyone uh I hope this was at all interesting to have us talk a little bit um stay tuned more uncontrolled airspace to come don't touch that dial don't touch that tile and uh I guess that's it thank you see you next time