James Gunn DONE With DC? Marvel Keeps FUMBLING, Warner Bros Facing LAYOFFS | PCC Weekend Update

0:00From unsolved mysteries to unexplained phenomena, from comedy goal to relationship fails, Amazon Music's got the most ad-free top podcasts, included with Prime, because the only thing that should interrupt your listening is... well, nothing. Download the Amazon Music app today. This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. Last year I went through many different life changes. I needed to take a pause and examine how I was feeling and the inside to better show up for the ones who need me to be my best version of myself. When you're navigating life's changes, Talkspace can help. Talkspace is the number one rated online therapy, bringing you professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatry providers that you can access anytime, anywhere. Living a busy life, navigating a long-distance relationship, becoming a first step father, Talkspace made all of those journeys possible. I could speak with my therapist in the office.

1:01I could speak with my therapist in the comfort of my home. I was never alone. Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a zero-dollar copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off your first month with promo code Space80 when you go to Talkspace.com. Match with a licensed therapist today at Talkspace.com. Save $80 with code Space80 at Talkspace.com. What is going on, Crisis Actors? Or in this case, I should say Crisis Members. If you are watching this episode as I say these words right now, we are on the very first of what I hope to be many bonus episode content for the PCC channel. We have opened up channel memberships and I want to give everybody access to more and more stuff, more and more shows. I want to be putting out more stuff every week, you know, at least at the rate that I can without driving myself crazy from, you know, the constant amount of segments and editing

2:05and all of this stuff. But we wouldn't be able to do all of this stuff without you guys, you know, really showing out for the live shows, watching the segments, supporting the channel. And indeed now signing up for membership. So if you are here watching this, I want to thank each and every one of you. And I thought of no but there's nobody better to bring on for my first episode here than pretty much the first person I started testing this remote setup with and that is verbal right? Yeah, man, glad to be here. Always glad to be here. I'm always happy to talk shops. Well, the thing is, is like in this space now, it's like I feel like people are so like off superheroes that there isn't a lot of people to talk about Marvel and DC with these days because they're just kind of bummed about it. Yeah, and it's kind of insane to me, man, because you got to figure Marvel will Disney. They spent 10 years playing together this universe, right? And for the most part, I mean, they didn't start the superhero genre, but they perfected it for the most part to have all that goodwill built up and then to see where it just completely fell off is insane to me, man.

3:09They were printing money at one point. Yeah. And now no one's talking about it. No, I mean, it's the death. No, it's almost as bad as comic books in general. Like the comic book channels have talked about how, you know, the last thing they can even talk about on comic book channels anymore is comic books because there's just no interest in it anymore. Yeah, and you know what? That doesn't bold will for, you know, these big studios that have put a lot of money going forward into the superhero genre now because, you know, we still got DC. We still got James Gunn and his stuff. We have Marvel and their stuff. The way the climate is right now, it's kind of scary. If I were a studio, I'd be thinking, man, we put a lot of money into this. And we really have no idea where this is going to go. And we're going to talk about that. So one of the things we're going to be getting into today, guys, we are going to talk about the future of, I guess, what you'd call the DC, the DC universe. It's not the DC EU anymore because with the upcoming pending sale of Warner Brothers to Paramount, there are a lot of questions now up in the air about what's going to happen for the ongoing projects.

4:12Originally what James Gunn had said, when it was the possibility that they were going to be going to Netflix, he said, everything's going to stay in place, nothing's going to change. But there are political concerns for James Gunn now because, you know, he gets along well with everybody over at Netflix who are all mega, you know, they're mega-democrat donors. But now he's going over to the Ellisons where, you know, I have my own questions about the Ellisons. I don't actually, as much as I support their content strategy or seeming content strategy, except for canceling the last Ronin movie, like there are still questions about them because I think consolidation in general is never a good thing in Hollywood. But for a lot of people, like I've said, perhaps this is the better of two bad options, but they definitely don't align with James Gunn's view of the world, especially with their proximity to Donald Trump. So we're going to talk about James Gunn at DC. We're going to talk about a little bit after that about some of the paramount layoffs that are possibly on the way. I mean, not possibly. It's absolutely going to happen.

5:13And we got into that a little bit on the live show today, which you guys can go back and check out the Tuesday episode of PCC. But we'll get into a little bit of what that's going to look like and what paramount is going to look like theoretically after all of this is done. Then I finally got somebody that I can talk to about Wonder Man. I should have rewatched it before we got into it. But I saw this article about how bad it did numbers wise and it broke my heart because I'm going to let everybody in a little secret here. Now I've said this live on the show. There are exactly two people in the world that liked Agatha. I am one of them. Me and possibly the only straight man in history that actually liked Agatha all along. I actually really, really enjoyed that series. And I really, really liked Wonder Man. But just by watching it, I knew that it wasn't going to do the numbers they needed it to over there. Because it just felt like it was dropped down to the streaming services if they had no confidence in the type of show that they were making. It was almost too esoteric for them to have any confidence in marketing. Well, actually you're wrong about that. I actually did like Agatha all along too.

6:17Yes. I thought you look, here's the thing. Was it a superhero show? No. Was it just a kind of a good show? Yeah. It was a fine show. It was a fine, which show that came out during Halloween? It was perfect. Yeah. And that aspect of it. And Catherine Hahn is just immaculate on camera. She knows exactly the type of character she's playing. Yeah. And Catherine Hahn is, she's one of those actors this man where you could watch her and anything. And she's amazing. If you guys haven't seen the studio, Garence, I highly recommend watching it. Great show on. On. Is it. Oh, it's on Apple TV. Okay. Yeah. Everybody knows me. We will take his request for Apple TV as an assertion. You all know my position. I will never have Apple TV. Yeah. I mean, it's a great show. If you have Apple TV, I'm not saying go out and get it. But if you have it, it's a good show to watch. I hate two things in Hollywood. I hate Apple TV and I hate A24. It's like, I'm on a one man jihad against both of those. But that's just me. You know what? That's a wild take to have that.

7:18Well, Apple plus not so much, but it seems like A24 is kind of like a Hollywood darling right now. They are. That look. I think I feel the way about them that people that don't like Christopher Nolan feel about Nolan bros. Okay. Yeah. I get that. Like, like, I don't know if there's like a normal dude out there that gets out like a Christopher Nolan tattoo. But there are definitely bros who go and get A24 tattoos. Oh, absolutely. And I'm look, I'm a self-confessed Nolan bro. I love Chris Nolan. I'm not a king of it. I'm going to try to hide it. Love Chris Nolan. So, but I get people who like don't like it. So I understand that. I was telling people I'm like, I don't even care. I like tenant. I don't even understand the movie. And I like tenant. Like I was like, I watched a two and a half hour explanation of tenant. And it still made no sense to me what it was done. And I still love it. I don't care. Yeah, tenant was not my favorite known film at all. But it's one of those things where I can I can forgive him for because he's done so many other things I love. It's like, look, man, everybody. I remember Robert Rodriguez once said, man, like every filmmaker has one bat one in him.

8:21So you got to just keep making them until you get that one out and then focus on the good. And it's true. Every filmmaker has that one that won that one. But getting back to Wonderman though really quickly, I thought it was a great show. I really love the acting. I love the chemistry between the actors. The story was fine. Like I think it was a good story. It wasn't a superhero film. And Wonderman had a lot of things working against it. Man, like number one, it's a character that various you people know, unless you're like a diehard Marvel thing. And you collected adventures back in the day, then you know who Wonderman is. Especially if you want if you collect the West Coast Avengers, right? Like you knew who Wonderman was. But not a not a popular character. There was the whole race, swap name people. Some people had issues with. But also, man, again, so much bad will has been built up in the DC. I'm sorry, MCU that. You know, even even the good show doesn't really have a shot right now.

9:22Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's unfortunate because Wonderman was a gem. And it's funny because I look at some of the things I really liked about the Marvel, the Disney plus Marvel stuff. And I look at, you know, Wonderman, for me, it was Agatha. I loved Werewolf by Night. Those are all offshoots of like, like little things that have no impact on the bigger MCU. That's the point. Marvel should have, that should have been their formula from the very beginning with Disney. Was the TV shows should have just been, you know, these little offshoot stories with offshoot characters. They have no, you know, relevance when it comes to the bigger movies. But just for those, the small screen, they're fine. If they were to stuck to that formula, I think they'd be in a better, a lot better shape than what they tried to do. Let's just go and let's just go look at Wonderman. Let's just, let's just start there then since we're here. Let's, let's go ahead and look at this here. So the, it says Wonderman absolutely tanks. Lowest ratings rejected by fans.

10:22This is from Cosmic Book News. It says Marvel's Wonderman finally hit the Nielsen charts after all eight episodes dropped on Disney plus. But the numbers read like a warning label for the MCU's streaming problem. And it shows you the numbers here. If you guys are watching on the, on the stream, one of the stream, but on the, on the rebroadcast right now. You have shows like Bridgerton that sits at the top there, stranger things, the pit, fall out. And it's down there. It's not even, it's not the very bottom, but it's at number eight there right above. I'm sorry, right below traders and right above Miss Rachel. That's not good for, for a Marvel show. No, but the thing is if you're counting by minutes, one of the things that I find interesting about that is is the episodes were short, which is one of the big selling points for me. They were only like 28 minutes long. Some of them were shorter. I think some of them were like 22 minutes long. So you were looking at something that was ostensibly the length of what a sitcom TV episode would be before the commercials. And there was something really good about the way that they engage the, the, they're not cliffhangers, but it kind of pushes. We all prefer things a certain way like groceries.

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13:28So it's, it's meta in the reboot of Wonder Man. And he's kind of on this journey with what's his name? I've been keeping the character of the Mandarin. The Mandarin, except for the fake Mandarin, but he becomes the real Mandarin at the end. Oh my gosh, I just spoiled it for somebody. Hopefully they're, we're okay there, but you'll get it. It's actually a really good twist at the end, the way they do it. But it could have been meandering because it doesn't seem to have like a strong path forward other than possibly he gets the movie role. Yeah, the movie role, but it could have ended theoretically with him getting the role, but instead it actually goes into the production of it. And it becomes an interesting character study on how this actor, you know, working in Hollywood feels about the world. They even get into some of the family dynamics with his brother who clearly doesn't support what he's doing. And the brothers kind of framed as a jerk, except for he's not really wrong. Because, you know, like they frame him as a bad guy because he's like, what are you doing with your life?

14:31But if your brother loves you and he feels like you have to come to him constantly for money, he's not a bad person for telling you like maybe you should figure something out. Even if he doesn't necessarily do it in the most, I guess, polite way. But the dynamic between Ben Kingsley and Yaya Abdul-Mateen was just right for this show. And they shine a light on the weirdness of actors, which is one of those things that I try to point out when everybody wants to talk about how evil Hollywood is or how it's like ritual sacrifice. I'm like, bro, they're a lot, they're just weird. Like a lot of them are just fucking weird. Yeah, oh, absolutely, man. And especially when you're talking about like people who aren't on the a list, people who are like, you know, just look, people who are in it for the love of the game. Really? Right. Like those kind of people are the weirdest. You've met them at coffee shops. If you've been to LA, if you've been anywhere, you don't even have to go to LA. Just go to like, if you have a theater district in your state. Like I've had friends growing up who had parents that were, you know, they were in the theater. And they were great people.

15:31They were just a bit weird. And I was always like, and that's okay. Like that never bothered me that you're just a little bit weird. And they kind of lean into that with this. But clearly, it just didn't feel like Marvel had the, no, do you, do you believe that Marvel just didn't have any faith in this? They didn't promote it enough? I, oh, absolutely. I mean, here's the thing, man, after the failure of Iron Heart, I think that Marvel really, like they, their feet got cold, man. Like they played chicken and, and they ducked out, right? Like they, they, and look, I'm not going to get into the investing in black shows and all this other stuff. I mean, they saw what Iron Heart did numbers wise. And they had no faith in this at all. I will say, look, it was a, it's a, it's a great show that we like, but I will admit, man, for a lot of people, when it comes to like the Hollywood stuff and like the inside baseball stuff, a lot of people just aren't into it, man. Like they're not into like curb enthusiasm or the studio or entourage. They're not really into that, that thing, right?

16:31Which I get, which this move, this show is very much inside baseball. And there's a lot of meta. It's, it's very meta in that. Very meta. And I get some people just aren't into that. You know, especially when you hear Marvel's show, you're thinking, oh, it's going to be a superhero show. And at some point, he's going to go save people, right? He, he, he wants to be an actor, but he saves people in the spare time. No, that's not what the show is. And I think once people realize that I, it probably didn't reach, you know, the audience, they, that they wanted to reach. The weird thing is, is I actually believe that Hollywood, look, I didn't like, for, for anybody in the chat and, and they will come for me, because I, like, this was like the hottest take I've had apparently on X-Reason. I didn't like the scary movie six trailer. I just, I don't like how, like Hollywood when it comes to humor now. You know, I know the Wayne's brothers are going to get a lot of creative freedom for the most part. But now these days when, with everything being owned by like larger and larger conglomerations, all I see is just what they were allowed to get away with these days. So I've kind of lived under the premise that I believe humor belongs to the public now.

17:34And the best satire you will see of the real world will come in the form of like skits online and stuff like that. But my point is more to the nature that Hollywood's best form of satire is when they satire themselves. Like they're, like every TV show, like if you're like me and you like the old boomer police procedures, there's always at least one episode where somebody dies in Hollywood. And they have to go interact with actors who are all the worst people on planet earth. They're all drug addicts, they're all lunatics and the directors are all weird art nerds who are all self obsessed. And this, this show takes that idea, but actually gives it a tinge of sincerity and doesn't treat the actor as a bloviating lunatic. They may be eccentric, but they don't spit in the face of what they do for a living. And I understand like most people, if you're like in our spaces, especially like where we are online, they don't actually necessarily like that idea. They want to see Hollywood get spit in the face of. But I was showing my, and I apologize for going off in a tangent if you guys are watching this, I will reel it back.

18:36I was showing my wife, she, I've been showing her house MD to show it's one of my favorite shows of all time. And we were watching these two episodes in season four, which won a ton of Emmys called House's Head in Wilson's Heart. And I said, like at the end of the episode, she's bawling and she doesn't really necessarily like to show me this is why I can't give up on Hollywood as a whole. Because when it's done right, it's a beautiful thing. And so I liked the fact that Wonderman didn't lean into the idea that it's awful or that they're bad people. They kind of celebrated Hollywood in a lot of ways. Oh, no, absolutely. And look, man, I, I think people just want good things to watch. And I, you know, again, when your track record record has been what Disney plus track record has been, you know, people are just burned, man. And then when they hear a superhero on top of it, they're burned again, right? It's this show to be about Hollywood and to be about actors and the whole deal. There was a, there was so much heart to this, to this show that I didn't expect.

19:38Yeah, I didn't expect like that much hard. I thought it would be kind of joky. Let's poke here. Let's poke beer. No, there was a lot of heart, man. And, and, and great acting. Like you feel like I just, it's hard to describe this show to people who really don't get, get it. But I, I get why it failed. That's my, that's, I guess that's the thing. I understand why it felt, right? I, I hate that it filled. But I do get that it's a complicated show that not everybody's going to fully understand or get behind to be honest with you. And I think one of the best examples would be the, so if you guys don't know, I'll just give a little synopsis. Basically, Ben Kingsley is sent under, the Mandarin is sent undercover to kind of expose Wonder Man. What's, what's the characters? I've already forgotten the characters. The, his, you know, his real world name. It's been, it's already been like a month since I've seen it. Yeah, I forgot. But you know, they're, they're trying to expose him as a superhero or as a, as a powered individual, right?

20:40And the Mandarin goes to his family, like his family dinner for his mom's birthday. Oh, Trevor Slattery is the name of the Mandarin. Yes. Yeah, being, being Kingsley character. But, but he goes and interacts with his family. And Simon Williams, I'm sorry. Simon Williams. So she, he hears about Simon Williams' childhood. And the things that he went through growing up. And you can literally see it in Trevor's face. Like he feels bad about what he's doing to him in that moment. Marvel, most of the time, will undercut that with jokes or humor. Now that's not to say that there wasn't that in the show. But they seem to pick their moments better. The episode four about the due to ends up being the cautionary table. Oh, the door, man. That was the best episode I've seen in ages. Like unbelievable amounts of heart in that episode. And they don't feel the need to necessarily pull away from it as a joke. And it's still got tons of metahumor in there. Real world actors play themselves in that role. And it's a shame. It's a shame that Marvel will not learn the right lessons from this type of show.

21:43Because look, this and Iron Heart not doing well aren't symptoms of the same thing. No, oh god. No, at all. You can make the argument that it's part of the symptom is that people just don't trust Marvel TV right now. But if you want to call them failures, Iron Heart failed on by virtue from everything I've been told from the writing, whereas Wonder Man is failing in spite of the writing, which was fantastic. Yeah. And look, people could say, oh, well, they don't want to invest in black properties, this and that. I think it's just an issue of, you know, the good will is gone, man. I think if any character of any Marvel show where it was suddenly appeared outside of Spider-Man, right? Yeah. Like, it's probably not going to do well, man. I'm like, even if they did a third season of Loki, I don't think it would do as well as like the first two seasons, right? Yeah. With its two juicy beef patties and three slices of melted cheese topped with tangy big arch sauce, the big arch is what happens when you start making a McDonald's burger and never stop.

22:45The big arch, the most McDonald's McDonald's burger yet for a limited time. Telleretic here from 2311 Racing. Game Night's fun until someone spends five minutes lining up one shot. Chalk, breathe, re-chalk, still aiming. While they figure it out, I fire up Champa Casino. I can spin anywhere, anytime, and there's always a new social casino game every week. Spins happen way faster than that shot. Play now at chumbacacino.com. Let's chumbac. Sponsored by Chumbacacino, no purchase necessary. VGW Group Fortware prohibited by law, 21 plus terms and conditions apply. We're just burned, man. And it is a shame because, you know, look, Ben Kingsley is going to be fine. So is Yaga. They're big actors of Hollywood. Yaga has established himself quite well since, look, he's got it. He has to make up for that Matrix movie, which was one of the worst things I've ever seen. But I really liked, I really liked ambulance. And I don't know anybody else that even saw it except for the girl in that movie was really annoying. But like that movie, that movie was actually a lot of fun.

23:46And he's very clearly somebody who's on the way up. Like, I actually made the comment. I said, like, honestly, hit at one point him and Jonathan Majors might have been going toe to toe as to the biggest names in Hollywood. And now Jonathan Majors is working with the daily wire. And yeah, yeah, Abdul Mateen is still on the way up. Yeah. He's obviously hooked. He's also. I hope the Matrix does make a comeback. I think it's a great actor. But, you know, how that goes. Yeah. But now he's done DCN Marvel because he was black man to over at DC. That's right. That's right. He is on his way up. Man, the guy, the guy is hot property right now. And he'll be fine after Wonder Man, regardless of how well it does or doesn't do. But I think that, you know, as someone who reviews movies and TV shows and someone who just loves it in general, I, you know, it is a shame though when something that is that good, you know, doesn't get the love. It doesn't get the, especially when you see shows out there that are getting the love. I don't deserve it at all. What's the show out right now that she think is getting a lot of love that doesn't deserve it?

24:46What's that? What's a show that's out right now that you think is getting a lot of love that doesn't deserve the love? You know, man, for me, it's kind of like I'm trying to think like because I know like. I'm trying to think there are a few shows that for me were kind of overrated. I'm trying to remember which ones they were because I watched them. Like Severance if you're an Apple TV guy. I look, I like Severance a lot. I think it's a decent show. I think the hype around it was a little too much. Yeah. Right. Like it's stuff like that. And that's why me not that they don't deserve it, but they're over hyped. Yeah. Right. Like some of these shows and it's like, Okay, you know, I get it. But Wonder Man was a show where they didn't get enough hype. And low and like the best part was low time investment. So you could get it done in one day. Like that was like eight episodes. I was able to we were able to watch the whole thing in one night. Like I just get overwhelmed with a lot of stuff that comes on. Like when I see episodes that are like 70 minutes long, I'm like, bro, I can't.

25:48I can't. Yeah, you've got to strap in and you know, and again, you don't even know how well it's going to do. Or if you're even going to like it, but you kind of have to invest the time and it is. I love the fact that Wonder Man, you can kind of just get in and get out. 20 minutes, you know, an episode like 25. I mean, it didn't take any of your time. Great show. And here's a thing though, we're I mean, we're talking about this. And when when Disney can't. Can't get behind something good. Like when they can't even like make a good thing happen, they got to be a little concerned, man. Like when when they're when people aren't even watching their good shows. Yeah. Like what are they going to do? Right? As a platform. I mean, are you watching Paradise? I had not started to get, but it's on my list. Paradise is really good. Like as somebody who has been a huge fan of Sterling K brown now for quite a long time. Great actor. So my favorite TV show of all time is person of interest. And he had like a five episode guest arc on that show back in season three.

26:49He then went on to do. This is us and became a. No, that's not my type of show, but that was his big. His big. Oh, yeah. He came a household man in that show. And from what I understand, he's got his own type of superhero bonafides. He wanted to play John Stewart like over at DC. Probably missed him by about five years. Age wise. Like they probably knew. I mean, he was great in the first black Panther movie. Yeah. Yeah. So like amazing. He's one of those actors that I think. He's got to me. I will always remember this was like after he did this is us. He finally got in to be that in that really bad predator movie that nobody liked. But he got to be like the bad guy like the quasi bad guy. Oh, that one. Yeah. He's like, look how much funny he's having. Yeah. Because he actually gets to chew gum and be a dick and actually have some personality. Whereas this is us is very much. It's made for the women. And it's it's not really something that an actor necessarily gets to sink their teeth in. If they're looking for something, you know, that really speaks to them. Cause that used to be the jam back in the day. Nobody wanted to be the good guy. Everybody wanted to play the villain.

27:49Like everybody was more fun. Yeah. It was more fun to do that. So, um, look, that that show is one of those ones where I gave up on the last of us, uh, after season one. This show and season two. First of all, they have the absolute balls to like when season two starts, they just go. There isn't even a previously on. I'm like the absolute. Goal. I love that. I love that. It's been a year. Like granted, it's not three years. Like a stranger things. But me and me and my wife, we had to sit there and like crap. Let's go look at a synopsis. It's been so long since we've seen the first. Right. But, but go like, check it out. I think you'd actually, if you like the like any of the last of us, it's got a little bit of that vibe. It's a little bit true. And show. Uh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, industry or two like shows that are kind of on my list. But right now, uh, things to watch. So. All right. Let's, let's talk about DC. Let's talk about DC a little bit because they are having their own struggles right now. With Marvel, the struggles seem to be trying to fix problems that they themselves have created.

28:51But that's not what we're seeing over at DC right now. They've tried to fix their own problems several times. And they are now, you know, unable to do that because they constantly are either getting sold. Or they're firing Zack Snyder. Oh, wait. They're going to bring Zack Snyder back for maybe a couple of episodes or, you know, to finish Justice League. Now they're constantly posting. He's constantly posting pictures from his days, you know, working at DC. But now we have to wonder what is going to happen with James Gunn. That is the real question here. It says speculation mounts that James Gunn could leave DC studios in the wake of a Warner Brothers discovery paramount deal. So that was the real question here, right? So basically he said when it looked like Netflix was going to be the one to buy Warner Brothers. He said, look, they're going to keep me around. They're not going to change anything. And that was something Netflix had to kind of, you know, promote over and over. Like, oh, we're not going to send stuff to streaming. We're going to let it run the way that it works. We're going to make sure that we release movies and theaters. We're not buying this to turn it into streaming junk, which I, of course, I'm not sure if I even believe that necessarily.

29:54At least not. Yeah, I don't mean it. But their point here is that James Gunn is politically at the complete opposite end of the spectrum with how Hollywood is now portrayed. Whether that's actually true to their politics, you could say it's true of Larry Ellison, given the fact that he's very close to Donald Trump. I don't know David Ellison's political opinions, other than the fact that he wants to make a crap ton of money. And he wants to spend a crap ton of money to gather the IP to do so. But this is what they're saying over on comicbookmovie.com. It says, it says, could James Gunn step away as DC Studios co-CEO in the wake of the announcement that Paramount Skydance will soon take ownership of a Warner Brothers discovery? Gunn has previously made it clear that his contract would remain secure regardless of the outcome. This was back when Netflix seemingly seemed likely to come out on top. And Paramount's David Ellison has assured everything would continue to operate as normal when it comes to Warner Brothers theatrical output. This doesn't mean that Gunn will still want to be associated with the studio after the Paramount ban or however.

30:57Speculation is mounting that Gunn could decide to step down from his current position after he's completed Man of Tomorrow, which is of course the Superman follow-up film. This is what John Campio had to say. I'm 100% sure that before the end of the year, James Gunn is going to David Zaz Lab and say, it's been nice, but there's no way I'm working for those guys. So can you please let me out of my contract? And I think David Zaz Lab will let him out of his contract. I think he's going to end up back at Marvel and he will become Kevin Feige's heir apparent to take over Marvel after Kevin Feige finally goes. That's what I think is going to happen. That's the road map I see here. He went on and continued. I just can't imagine a scenario where James Gunn, because all we know how James Gunn feels about Donald Trump, whether you think he's right to feel that way or whether you think he's wrong to feel that way, we all know how James Gunn feels about Donald Trump and the Ellison's are Donald Trump's little F toys. That's quite edgy there, Mr. Campio. So I just don't see any reality in which James Gunn stays. He's going to quit.

31:58Do you think that's what's going to happen? Do you think he ends up leaving? I look, man. I respect John Campio. I know there's a lot of people in our space who take him with a grain of salt. I was a big fan of Collider back in the day. So I actually believe that my golden era for the internet, the time that I'm, like year and four, was like that. And after BuzzTV reviews of episodes of television shows, like that was a more innocent time in Hollywood to me. No, and I agree. And I look, I think I think I think Campio is right a lot more than he's wrong when it comes to like these things. For sure. Yeah, so I'm not going to discount them. But I do think it's foolish of him to say he's 100% sure that James Gunn is going to lead when nothing has been established yet, right? Like there's been no terms. If he thinks that James Gunn is leaving purely because of political reasons, he is nuts.

32:58There's no way James Gunn is going to break that kind of contract. Look, it might think it's this. If James Gunn leaves, it's not going to be because of politics. It's going to be because he realized he bit off more than he could shoot when it comes to being this, you know, had a studio for for DC. He saw how Superman did. He saw how, you know, a peacemaker did things are looking real shaky for Supergirl right now. I think he might just want to just get out because of those reasons because this is too big for him. He likes, I think he wants to stick to his where he's familiar, right? James Gunn is very good. He's very good. He's very good at taking unknown characters. Telloretic here from 2311 Racing. Game night's fun until someone spends five minutes lining up one shot. Chalk, breathe, re-chalk, still aiming. While they figure it out, I fire up Champa Casino. I can spin anywhere, anytime, and there's always a new social casino game every week. Spins happen way faster than that shot. Play now at chumbacacino.com.

33:58Let's chumbac. Sponsored by chumbacacino. No purchase necessary. VGW group voidware prohibited by law. 21 plus terms and conditions apply. And making them these lovable household names. He's not good at taking established characters, especially the big ones, right? Like Superman. That's not his willhouse, man. He likes to, he likes the, the randos, right? That he could, that he could make it to his own thing, right? He can get in or slate and it gives you more to work with with less expectations, which allows you to like deliver on a higher level. Exactly. I like to suicide squad movie. I, I love, I love the first season of peacemaker, right? Yes, I, I gave up on peacemaker season two, but I was like, I thought that was just more like, I was like, maybe I'm just older now. Maybe. No, it doesn't work for me in season two. Well, you know what peacemaker two didn't work because the tone was so ridiculously stupid from the rest of where the DCU is now. So I, I think there's a lot of eyes on gun, a lot of pressure on gun. I think if he does leave, it's going to be because of that. I don't think it's going to be because of like political issues of, of a paramount.

35:02You know, with that said though, I still don't even think he's going to leave even with that. I think gun is, is going to stick this out at least just for the next couple of years. I don't think he's taken off anytime soon. So you think so. What is it after Supergirl? I wonder if this years, so over at D at Marvel, my bet is like, I still think that Spider-Man brand new day is a more sure thing at the box office than Avengers Doomsday. Oh, for sure. Absolutely. Spider-Man, Spider-Man is your billion dollar franchise every time. Like my point is like, it doesn't matter how old you are. Children wearing Spider-Man pajamas is anachronistic. It will exist forever. Kids love Spider-Man, so they're always going to make money on Spider-Man. But at DC, I wonder if maybe Clayface ends up being their sleeper movie this year. I have a feeling it's going to end up going more of the way of Sony Marvel. But I would like to see Clayface kind of surprise people as more of a fall. Because I think it comes out in September, October or something like that. Well, there's a surprise movie this year.

36:03Well, what I've been hearing about Clayface, I mean, they're, if they have the balls, I mean, they're, they're, there is going to be a straight horror film. So, which is a crazy take for Batman villain. But I'm like, okay, you know, I mean, we're going to, we're getting Clayface before Batman. Funny how that works. You know, I look, I'm down, I'm down. If it's a good film, I'm, I'm all for it, man. And I think Clayface does lend himself to being a good horror creature. But again, it's one of those decisions where people are questioning guns, you know, like they're questioning them. Like, why would you put a Clayface movie before a Batman movie? And I get the whole Chris Reeves thing, not Chris Reeves, Matt Reeves. Matt Reeves. I'm not a Batman. And the confusion with all that. I've never, I've never, I've never, I always thought that the reason they didn't put Batman on the small screen, because they've used that same argument in the past. They don't want to put multiple versions on camera, just because it confuses people. That's actually true. If you've run a YouTube channel and you've ever like given people like a, like an update,

37:07you have to keep giving that update. So, a lot of times you actually do have to, it's not you or me that they're worried about. And you were going to be able to tell the difference because we pay attention to this stuff. Exactly. Even the quasi-regulars are going to know the difference. But you lose out on a large swath of the regular audience. If they're like, wait, that's Superman. Like, I thought the dude on the CW was Superman. I thought Tyler Hawkelin was Superman. I get why they do that. But for Batman, especially with, with Matt Reeves doing his thing. And I was not a fan of the Batman too long. That's fair. It's just three hours. It's just, it's just too much for me. Tonally, I wasn't a huge, a huge fan of that one. But, you know, all things considered. Keeping them separate to me is a good thing since gun clearly doesn't know, isn't necessarily going to lean whole hog into a darker tone for those movies. And I understand that there's definitely an argument to make a lighter tone for Batman. Like, whether you're going to do brave in the bold, or you're going to do, you know, the bat family, which seems like if that's going to be done, should be its own separate endeavor entirely given that they don't,

38:13they haven't ever committed themselves to doing that on the big screen in the modern, in modern era. Outside of what? I guess you got Rob and technically in the dark night rises technically at the end. Otherwise, you get, you know, it's the animated movies where that stuff really shined, which are the ones that I really, really liked. And it would actually be really hard to be able to pull off like a son of Batman or whatever. Under Red Hood or Under Red Hood. All of the, you know, Damien Wayne, I was not a fan of Titans other than the Death Stroke stuff. I actually really liked the Death Stroke stuff. Yeah, that was a great season. Yeah, like that was, I was, I was explaining to somebody. I said, do you know how great this was in the scene where he, he grabs her and he stabs her in the shoulder. And he just breaks her. And that's another actor. S.I. Morales is another one. I would have been totally happy if they'd been bringing him to the big screen because he's actually, because he was just the bad guy in the last two mission impossible movies. Another TV actor who's kind of made himself a big screen actor.

39:13And I was like, they probably get Benicio Del Toro if they were going to go the same way. They probably didn't even older version of it and get Benicio Del Toro. And be like, just play your Sicario character, but as Death Stroke. Yeah. Oh, yeah. By the way, if you guys haven't seen Sicario, you should go watch it because I've heard that they're working on Sicario, like the third Sicario movie. I don't know where Tyler shared and finds the time. But what about the idea of him going back to Marvel? Do you think it's possible he would, he would go back to Marvel? Because they do have to plan for a day where Kevin Feige isn't in charge at Marvel. Look, if they were smart, yes, because, you know, look, say what you went to about James Gunn and people talk a lot of shit about him. I still love him a lot as a filmmaker, as a nerd. You know, the guy knows this stuff. People don't understand, man. Like, you know, we do, but a lot of people don't understand that he was responsible for the infinity saga. Man, like he crafted that whole thing, like leading up to it, right? Like, I mean, the whole build up was James Gunn.

40:15From Guardian's one to Infinity War, that was all James Gunn, right? The Russo brothers directed, but Gunn storyboarded that whole thing. So he knows his stuff, man. Like the thing is James Gunn knows his stuff, regardless of what you think about him. Yeah. So if Marvel were smart, absolutely. Grab him up, right? Because I think he might, he might do a little bit better with Marvel than he does with DC. It's also funny, too, because there's nothing, maybe somebody can give me an example, because I haven't seen everything. But nothing the Russo brothers have done since they left Marvel has proven to me in any way that they would have been solely responsible for the success of the Avengers movies. Yes, they do great within that, within those parameters. But all of the movies that they made after that, whether it was like the Gray Man or Citadel, which was one of the, as somebody who loves spy dramas, the fact that Citadel could be as bad as it was, was almost shocking to me. None of it has ever felt inspired in the way that the Marvel stuff that they did was inspired.

41:19Now granted, it's the product of a lot of other people's work as well. But James Gunn is clearly playing, played a huge role in that. Yeah. And again, the guy knows his stuff, man. You know, look, here's your options. You know, you have Gunn and then you have someone who has no idea what your property is. You can't, Marvel can't afford this anymore. They can't afford that. They got to go with people who know their properties, who know their audience, right? And start making money again. So they can't even afford to go with somebody else. They would have to go with someone like James Gunn, you know, if they can get them, because they need him. They need him to start making money again. At worst, at best, he's somebody who doesn't tell the actors or the writers to not read the comics, which is an actual mandate that would come down from both of the studios or guilty of this, of trying to tell the creatives, hey, don't feel, you know, don't feel encumbered by the source material. You got to write your own thing. They're dealing with this right now again with, and I'm not a, you know, I'm not a modern gamer,

42:19but Resident Evil fans are dealing with that again. Just hoping against hope that Zach Kreggers can make something that's great for Resident Evil, despite the fact that he's not going to use any of the original characters. I just watched a great video. There's a YouTuber, guys, named JB Spooky Reviews. If you don't know who that is, he does ex files reviews. He reviews literally every episode. He does like a 16-minute video on every episode. And he did a video on the making of the 2002 Resident Evil movie, and just the amount of studio interference and garbage that went into taking that thing made, and that's still something they're dealing with. They're still doing that with the modern Resident Evil. The only difference is the only reason people aren't necessarily panicking is that Zach Kreggers has made a couple of, sorry, is that Kregger? I always want to say it with an asset then. Zach Kregger has made a couple of movies that people really, really like, so they're willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Yeah, and I look, I'm not going to claim that you have Resident Evil fan. I played the first game ever on PlayStation 1. That was probably the only Resident Evil game I've replaced.

43:20But you're right. This is the symptom of a bigger problem, man. Look, I understand that the studios want to have a new audience. Because you have to. The live blood of a movie studio is a young audience, right? People who are young, who will then grow up and bring their kids, who will bring their kids, who will bring their kids. Just Disney succeeding right now with their live action remix. They're for the millennials who are bringing their kids to go see them. Exactly. So I understand the need for that, right? The problem is though, when you're dealing with something niche, you need that hardcore audience to vouch for this kind of thing, right? And when you piss off that audience, right? When you tell them there are opinions, no matter. When you tell them they're toxic, then good luck. In fact, the worst thing they could do is not talk about you, right? People get on like a lot of YouTubers, right? Calling them and say that they do this hate-raid stuff, right? And there's certain names out there that I won't mention,

44:22that they throw out there as far as I hate everything. Here's the thing. Those studios are lucky. Those guys are talking about their product at all, right? Because apathy is the worst thing to happen to you, a studio. So you need that hardcore audience, man. And you can't afford to piss them off, right? It's like, yeah, you gain your new audience, but you get it through the vet by the people who already love the property, man. So that's what I'm saying. These studios can't afford to keep hiring these people that know nothing about the properties anymore, right? It's going to do this kind of like IP stuff. It was like rings of power by season two, nobody cared. Like, it wasn't interesting anymore, because it was bad. And so you don't even have the people like me who are casuals at best, just dunking on it, because of how all- granted, it looked pretty good. I mean, it looked like modern slop. But like, at least the CGI was actually halfway decent, like on the water scenes. But it didn't feel like Lord of the Rings, it was slop. And by season two, nobody cared anymore. You could even make the same claim for last of us,

45:22like there was hype around season one. By season two, the normies are gone, because the YouTubers aren't talking about it anymore, because it's not interesting to them. And I just, especially for these big properties, I think maybe you're right. James Gunn would be better off in charge of the more esoteric characters, and to find somebody who's going to want to work on, I don't know who you bring in anymore. I did see a great post recently from Sean Chandler, who was saying actors aren't the bank, aren't even the bankable ones anymore. I mean, I've always kind of said that for years, right? Like, the age of the movie star is kind of dead, but directors are still bankable. Like, you can still sell a movie on Tarantino. Oh, yeah. You can still sell a movie on Sam Raimi. Chris Nolan. Or Christopher Nolan. Like, those are the, don't come at me. Those of you who hate Christopher Nolan. But the point is, is like, those are the ones that you can rely on. So there can't be that many who are both talented directors, ability able to kind of wheel power at the studio level

46:22and have a deep knowledge of comic books in law. That's literally like, I guess you could say Jeff Johns, but he's not a director. He's just an executive who has a lot of problems. He's just an executive, yeah. So it's like, they've kind of boxed themselves into this category. That's why I think they started shifting to video games anyways. And even then, I feel like video games now, the gold mine for them is to find the games that don't have a ton of lore because they want to change it anyways. I love twisted metal. And I'm like, I don't remember there being any story in twisted metal, but the show is awesome. Yeah. Like that's the best I can, I can say about that. Super Mario Brothers is going to make a billion dollars again this year. I don't think anybody doubts that Super Mario Brothers is going to make a billion dollars. But you don't need to know or care about the lore necessarily because you're bringing your kids there. Right. Is there any? Okay. Okay. Wait. You don't have to know the lore, man. But you've got to at least know, you have to understand these characters, at least. Right. It's like, you don't have to know all the backstory of every single care, you know, side character. But you've got to know the heart of the property at the very least, right?

47:26And they can't even find people who can do that. Yeah. Who can just understand the heart of it. Tomb Raider. I mean, maybe not the heart of Tomb Raider, but they can't find what it is that clearly drew the public to a character like Lara Croft. Which is insane. Which is insane, dude. I'm not a fan of Phoebe Wallerbridge. But not for, I guess for a lot of the most cynical of reasons. But it's like, it's not even to say that Phoebe Wallerbridge would be a bad director or writer. It's that she would be a bad director or writer for this particular property. Just because somebody is good doesn't mean that they're good for every type of project. And when you talk about like not fundamentally understanding the character, man, Laura Croft is probably the easiest character in the world to understand. And you're choosing, you're making a choice to not understand her, right? She is sexy and she's still shit. That's it. I mean, that's, that's, that's, that's the heart of the character. You know, I mean, and you could try to like, you could gray her up, right? Make her like kind of an anti hero. But at the end of the day, she's just this cool chick who's hot and still shit.

48:28I was trying to explain to Mary one day because we had the whole discussion about, you know, they've kind of, you know, she's not going to be in the outfit. I guarantee you at the very least they'll do what they did in the horrible 2018 Tomb Raider where she gets the, the H&K's at the very end. Oh, yeah. But, you know, but I was like, but that's not even the thing. That's just the looks of it. They've already screwed on that. Wait till you find out about colonialism and how much trouble Laura Croft gets into because they think that what she does for a living is problematic. Like literally Phoebe Waller Bridge is the worst person you could bring on to do it. I said, you know, they should have gotten, they should have gotten Taylor Sheridan. Yeah. To do a Waller Croft series. Oh, my God. Absolutely, yes. Like, and that's, they would have never been able to afford him plus he's under contract. Actually, he's under both contracts now because I think he's under contract with Paramount for TV until 2028 and he's under contract starting this year with Comcast to do movies over there. So he's in demand. You can't, you can't do anything about that.

49:28But it's sad to see. And that's the other thing about what's going on right now. Like we're talking about like where they're going with different properties. And that's what it's going to be all about. It's going to be about consolidation. And Paramount is going through this right now. And what we are seeing right now, I saw this tweet the other day. I left it open because we talked about it on the show today. But for Paramount themselves, if they're going to do what they're going to do, we're looking at 7,000 layoffs, at least like six to 7,000 layoffs. They're looking to cut $6 billion from their coffers because they're now $79 billion in debt because of what it costs them to purchase Warner Brothers, which means they have to make that all back on IP. Like that has to all come back to them by virtue of putting out projects that everybody wants. But basically, they're looking for cuts to the Warner Brothers production team because anybody who's worked in business knows when one company buys out another,

50:28when there's now doubling departments, they don't fire the people that they came in there with. They're a known quantity. They're going to keep the Paramount people. If anybody's going to go, it's going to be the Warner Brothers studio people. On top of the fact that CNN is now terrified of what's going to happen. If they're going to be put under control of somebody like Barry Weiss or something like that. But what do you think about the fact that they're going to combine it into one streaming service? Well, number one, let me just address the layoff thing. I think, look, with any company, when there's a merger of that, when someone gets bought out, people get fired. There's no even, there's no, it's just a fact of life. People are going to lose their jobs. And it's going to be the people who are getting bought out. So there's going to be all this crying and boo-hooing about what Paramount is doing. But look, guys in any business, that's just what happens.

51:29So people are going to lose their jobs, unfortunately. As far as the, I'm sorry, what was the question? I said, like, what do you think about the streaming services merging? Yes, merging. Look, man, I don't want to say I'm fine with it. I will say I'm curious about the price, right? The price that I go up if they buy this. And I guess you could say, well, I'm already paying for HBO Max. I'm already paying for Paramount. Just put them together. But some people aren't paying for both. Some people will have one or the other. So does this mean now I'm going to get this crazy price hike? If I want to have one or the other, I don't know how this works. Also, I don't know what that means if content gets removed. Because a lot of times they'll scale because of server space and stuff like that. So I go in and out with HBO Max. I got rid of it. I haven't had it in a while. I'll go through phases where I'll get it again.

52:29But in general, we buy Paramount yearly because I love my boomer procedures that I watch before bed. And they pretty much made all of them. Like over at CBS, they're the ones who made all of those shows. So all the NCIS's Wi-Fi, the originals of all of these series as well. They're all on there. So we keep that one. And they also get a lot of the old, like great action movies. They've got the, well, they don't right now. But they have two of the major Jack Ryan movies, like, you know, from the, like they've got some of all fears. Just watch Rambo on on there the other day. Like they've got great movies that I choose from. And it's cheaper than HBO Max. Oh, time's cheaper. But again, does that change now to now that they put their own work? I mean, so this is the crazy. I didn't even think about this until I was reading this article. HBO is the one that owns cinematics and paramount own showtime. So two of the most, and then so think about it. HBO cinematics and pair and showtime.

53:30Those were like the big, like if your family had money, like if you had a friend who had a family of money, they had one of those stations, right? All under the same banner now. Like that's just like it is the illusion of choice for them. And now they're going up against Disney. They have pledged 30 films a year. So they're going to split that 15 between both studios. But I tell a reddick here from 2311 Racing. Game night's fun until someone spends five minutes lining up one shot. Chalk, breathe, re-chalk, still aiming. While they figure it out, I fire up Chamba Casino. I can spin anywhere, anytime. And there's always a new social casino game every week. Spins happen way faster than that shot. Play now at chambacasino.com. Let's chamba. Sponsored by Chamba Casino. No purchase necessary. VGW Group, voidware prohibited by law. 21 plus terms and conditions apply. I find it hard to believe that they will not be expected to make those movies on a budget when they're trying to get rid of $79 billion worth of debt that they've accrued.

54:31Wait, is that 30th theatrical? 30th theatrical releases a year. That's what they're saying they want to do. 15 from each studio. I call bullshit on that. I need to see it to believe it. Now, 30 is a lot. They're saying 15 from Paramount and 15 from Warner Brothers is what they want to do. And like I said, I would be happy with 25 if you want to say at the very high end, 15 from Warner Brothers 10 from Paramount, something like that. I think they're doing that. And they've also committed to the 45 day theatrical window which has become like a talking point online. You should leave your movies and theaters for as long as you possibly can to try and get the most money out of it. You said 33 because that was 45. No, I said 45, 45 day theatrical window. 45 day theatrical window. If I said that wrong, I apologize, but yes, 45 day theatrical window which has become like a talking point for all of that. But it's like, look, the elephants haven't been in charge long enough even for me to really gauge their,

55:33you know, what they're going to be doing other than announcements that they've made. The funny thing is is like everyone's now like standing for Paramount while hating Star Trek a Starfleet Academy because they know that it's part of the prior regime over there. Yeah. It's just, do you think for you? So I don't know like what your favorite of the streaming services is. But it's like if we're talking going to the theaters, do you get more excited about a Paramount movie or like a Warner Brothers movie? So look, I'll be honest with Warner Brothers, you know, I feel like especially this past year, 2025 Warner had an amazing, amazing year. I mean, love him or hate him, man. I mean, they had hit after hit after hit first to reach four billion at the boxes this year. I mean, say what you want to about him. And to the point where I'm even surprised, why even sell man? You guys are doing this good, but whatever. That was, I think that was in motion for years before. I think the second that he started cutting projects. David Zazlove got the reputation that he got because if you, so over here,

56:34I talk about David Ellison, derangement syndrome, which is a very real thing within Hollywood. They really ate this. Oh, very much so, yeah. But before that, there was David Zazlove derangement syndrome, which came from all of the creatives in Hollywood, because the first thing he started doing was axing projects like Coyote, uh, uh, Akmy versus Coyote, and Batgirl, all of these projects got canceled, because I think that he was immediately starting to shave debt off, which he did. He cut a whole ton of fat from Warner Brothers. Of course, it went into his bonus at the end of the year, but I'm not going to hate the guy for that. He was doing his job, and I think the goal from day one was to sell. Now, I do believe that the initial plan was always to break up the companies and then sell, but the offer has been too good to go to Paramount. I think what he saw at Netflix was probably what he initially envisioned, which was selling off the movie studios and staying on in charge of the television stuff going on at the discovery side of Warner Brothers' discovery.

57:34Well, and it's funny, because, you know, we were talking about James Gunn earlier. Like, if you were creative, right, I don't understand why you would even think about going to Netflix when you know how they feel about theatrical, right? Warner Brothers, I mean, Netflix is not like theatrical at all. So Paramount, for good or for bad, right? You call them the devil if you want, but at least they do believe in theatrical. And if you're a director, if you're a filmmaker, you know, then that's good for you, right? So I can't see why any filmmaker or even actor would shoot Netflix over Paramount. I wonder if it's the like the thing about Netflix is from what I've always been told really good upfront paydays for the really good actors, which is like, first of all, you have to be like really, really good to bank on yourself at the theaters these days. Scarlett Johansson, I imagine, still banks on herself at the theaters these days. That's why she sued Disney when they put Black Widow on streaming right away.

58:38But in general, it's like when movies aren't hitting the way that they should at the theaters, the upfront payday probably seems like a better idea than taking that long shot risk that you're going to get a good like back end deal. When we all know that Hollywood loves their funny, you know, their funny money bookkeeping anyways. But for the creatives behind the camera, like a James Gunn, then it really just becomes a question where he has to kind of look inside himself and be like, well, what do I care about more being attached to a company that has, I guess, connections to Donald Trump, or actually making movies that are going to come out in theaters and have a certain amount of cultural relevance. That was what the argument that Glenn Powell and Sidney Sweeney made to release anyone but you in the theaters when at that time, romcoms were exclusively the right of streaming services. No, but he was taking a bet on those in the theaters at all. But it had cultural relevance because it went to the theaters. Yeah, and it was a very smart move, right? And you're right, you're absolutely right. If you're willing to gamble, you know, and you think what you have is good enough, man, then.

59:41And I guess for me, who loves film, I appreciate those kind of balls, right? Absolutely. Like I appreciate what someone says, hey, you know what, I mean, I mean, something damn good and I want everybody to see it. I will go support that, right? Because, you know, I mean, you're putting your stamp on it, you know, and a lot of people don't do that anymore. But, and I get the upfront money with Netflix. My thing though is, you know, Netflix, unfortunately, is you get lost in a sauce pretty fast on Netflix. Yeah, your movie gets buried sometimes. And that doesn't play well for, you know, like in a long run for you. If your movie is only visible for like, you know, a week on Netflix, then it gets buried. And then you forget about it. I was like, I like that movie carry on and I was trying to think about the other day. I'm like, what the hell is the name of that movie? Exactly. And that's the problem, right? So yeah, you're taking the money upfront. But, you know, like the fame you want coming from the thing you just worked on, you're probably not going to get. What was the movie, the killer? I really liked the killer. I think that was a David Fincher movie.

1:00:42And it was really good. And I was like, this would have been amazing to see in the theater. Oh, Frankenstein. How was Frankenstein not in the theater? Man, like that should have been like a three month run, right? Again, just buried though. There's nothing you, but the thing is it's like, we have a whole discussion today about how theaters have for the most part. They're not waving the white flag, but AMC sought 10% decline in quarter four for their, you know, for their people, actually showing up to see movies and stuff like that. And for movies this year, what were the biggest ones? It was Avatar, I guess, at the end of the year. But it was Disney Slop, as always. It was the big one this year. Was that, that wasn't inside out too. It was not Moana. Well, that was a big one. But Moana was, it was pretty big as well. Was Moana this year last year? Last year, 2025. Okay. It was, and then. And it was Lilo and Stitch.

1:01:42Okay, that's Lilo and Stitch, right? That was the one that, but even that made a huge chunk of its money in China and overseas. It didn't necessarily make that money here at home. And I knew that, the funny is when Moana was announced, that was the only one that I knew that was going to be successful, because we were like out in the wild traveling and somebody, I heard two people talking about going to see Moana later that year. And I don't remember the last time I saw two people talking about a movie out in public. Right. Like, I don't remember the last time that happened. And Disney, for the most part, like, I just, there's nothing that they're really doing that really excites me either. Like, there's nothing coming out from Disney that excites me. I mean, outside of brand new day. I mean, like, there's really not much, man, because even, even, even Doom's out, I'm kind of meh on. So, like, brand new day is really the only thing from Disney I'm looking forward to this year. They still doing Punisher in that one? They're still doing Punisher in that one? Yeah, Punisher is in it. The Hulk is in it. 13 Punisher. Yeah, God. Uh, with his low taper with his high taper fade.

1:02:44Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. What is that? Yeah. What is, uh, what is it called the, um, Jersey shortcut? Yeah. He's got the, he looks like the dude from Jersey. Sure. Paul, he did. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I was, I was like, who is the dude fading up the Punisher? Like, well, like, because he's not doing that himself. It's way too far. It's not, absolutely not. Like, we've seen that. So, he just show up and, like, grunt to a guy to fix his hair. Uh, let's Karen, you know, from my double maybe he's the one fading them up. I don't know. She has like a second job, like, uh, working for Murdoch is not making her enough money anymore. So she's got to have a job on the side of the side hustle. My mom was, uh, my mom was, uh, a barber when I was younger. So she's like, I learned how to be a barber. And my mom's new, and my mom's, uh, ret, uh, what would it be? It would be, um, hell's kitchen barber. Yeah. That's what they can do. Um, look, I, and the funny thing about that is, is, um, the funny thing about that is, is the Punisher is actually, to me, the best example of how far Marvel has fallen for me. Cause one of my favorite things was Daredevil season two.

1:03:46I loved Daredevil season two. And since then, like, I, the first season of the Punisher was okay, uh, on Netflix. But then once it, once he showed up in, in the new, in Daredevil born again, as like, it's not the same. It's not the same. The whole way fights aren't the same. It's not the same to me. It's not the same. That's CGI. So they're different, uh, and, and, and that shows specifically was just weird. Tonally, yeah. Tonally, that show was all over the place because, you know, was a Franken project because it got killed and restarted three times. So together, man, it was like, it started out as one thing. Then they changed it to another thing. And then they wanted to change it to another thing. So we got like almost three different shows. And what they've done. Maybe the, maybe the Punisher isn't the best example of that. Oh. I was trying to explain, well, I was sure, like, because I was watching Daredevil born again. My wife is not a comic book fan. It's, it's not her, it's not her thing. She'll watch them with me.

1:04:46If I'm, she, she enjoyed Civil War. She enjoyed Civil War and Winter Soldier, because they're not comic book movies. They're basically, Civil War is a, is a comic movie, but Winter Soldier is a spy thriller. Oh, yeah. And it's got, in both movies involved like political discourse. That's her, that's her jam. She likes that stuff. But I was trying to explain to her when, when, when I was watching born again, every time the, every time Kingpin would show up on screen and just be just a wet rag. I was like, you have to remember this guy decapitated a dude with a car door in season one. And he's not that guy anymore. Yeah. He's not that guy anymore. I mean, they kind of made him that guy towards the very end. Yes. A little bit at the very, very end, but it was too late by that point. And I think people were kind of like, yeah, okay. All right. So here's the real question. One of the things I see that you like to post on about a lot, and it always makes me laugh, is TikTok Hollywood. They've got, they're on a, they're on a stopwatch now, where they don't have much time left because AI is coming for their jerps, as we, as we know.

1:05:50Here are the opinions on AI range from those who are extremely optimistic about what it's going to mean for the future. I tend to be more in the weary camp just in a sense that I feel like the notion that any technological advancement will provide unlimited abundance feels like the tech grows that were selling you on the internet back in the early 2000s. One of the things that we talk about is like, if you were alive in the late 90s to the early 2000s, it was an unbelievably optimistic time because of technology. You were being sold on the idea of, you know, ease of communication. You'll be able to find the people that really, really see the world the same way that you do, that you were never able to do before. Right. And there was a lot of hope. There was a lot of optimism. And I feel like that is for the most part evaporated. Now, if anything, I think AI is become a tool of those who are disenfranchised with the way that things are. There is this article about the follow-up to Tilly Norwood. If you don't know who that is guys for watching this, Tilly Norwood was one of these

1:06:51AI actresses that this studio is trying to sell you on as the next big thing in Hollywood. Always be weary of stories like this because they tend to be done as a means of building capital for these companies that really want to get more investors involved in their projects. So they try to sell you on the idea that she's the next big thing because it will help them sell their idea to people who might invest in their company. In this case, it's a company called Zerkoya. And it says, Zerkoya, which is the first AI talent studio and creator of AI performer Tilly Norwood, has hired former Amazon Prime Video, Mark Wheelan, as head of strategy and operations. Wheelan will work directly with the CEO and creative lead founder. I've never known how to pronounce this lady's name. Aline Vandervelden, which sounds very aristocratic. Particle 6, who talked in depth with the Hollywood reporter. But that's not really what I want to get into today. You saw the videos last week with all the different fight scenes that everybody was kind of putting all their stuff together.

1:07:53What do you think that means for the future in Hollywood? So, yeah, look, anyone who's been following me on X knows that I've been advocating pretty hard for AI. Only because of the fact that I feel like, from what I'm seeing, man, like, look, guys, here's the thing. At the end of the day, you kind of got to know where the road is going. You have to know where the train is heading. And we laughed back in the day when people said, you know, oh, the internet is going to be a big deal. Or, hey, or everybody's going to have email, right? It's like your grandma's going to have email. We laughed at stuff like that, right? I mean, we guys, we remember like the early CGI and how bad it looked, right? We remember like a lot more men and movies like that where the CGI was got off, right? I mean, even stuff that had been made like 10 years ago, like once TV's got good enough, you just tell it, you can just tell it better now. There's stuff that was made 15 years ago that I used to think was really, really good. Not because it necessarily even looks bad. It just doesn't hold up to the scrutiny of a larger TV.

1:08:53Right. And that's the thing. It's we all thought that these things were, you know, with Fizzle out, but they didn't. And I'm telling you, AI is not going anywhere. Now, am I saying, I hear me out. The whole Tilly Norwood thing is horse shit. Yeah. I completely agree with Ben Affleck on that, that it is dumb. Right. Like that whole shit, that thing will never happen. Look, when it comes to AI actors, we will never get there. Okay. I'm going to put that out there. We'll never get there. But when it comes to using AI for like effects, I think at this point, that's where we're heading. And here's the thing, when normal people can put together better shit than what I'm seeing in the theater, that's when studios have to start worrying, right? That's why I keep saying TikTok because at some point, if Hollywood sticks to the road that they're on, people are going to say, you know what? I rather just make my own or watch somebody else's version, because they're going to give me what I want, right? Which, in a short round, it doesn't seem like a lot, but when enough people start doing it slowly,

1:09:53and people stop watching movies and stop going to the theater, right, or stop paying for screening services, then they're going to start to fill it. They're going to know, right? So, I mean, is it going to happen this year? No. Give it like three years, and watch where AI will be in three years. And then come back to me and tell me I'm wrong, right? Well, it's not just that. It's like Disney's already leaning into this idea of creator-made content on their streaming platforms, because they're trying to get out in front of it, because they know that people are going to do that. Look, I'm one of those people. I'm like, look, the last thing I want to do is make my own. Like, to me, the joy in watching a movie is seeing somebody else's, sure, ideas coming together. But you'll be able to do that, though, right? You can watch somebody else's stuff. Like, apparently, like, and I haven't watched it yet, because I just, you know, I'm in that time. But there's this amazing Star Wars recreation that was done with AI. That's on YouTube right now, and it's the story of Luke after Jedi. And apparently, Beggar's Canyon, I think it's called. But it's getting a lot of praise, man, and that's a purely AI project.

1:10:56So, you know, again, look, the cream will always rise to the top. You're going to have people who are shit at using AI, and you're going to have people who are going to make something that's going to blow your mind, right? And it's all about choice. We're going to have choices, right? And that's something that theaters or the studios can't afford for us to have. Because once we have choice, we're probably not going to watch their shit too much. Because they've already lost out to the fact that you have a choice in what you watch now beyond just that type of entertainment. People have already abandoned movies to watch Kaisenat, or watch I Show Speed, or watch IRL streamers go on and do stupid shit out in public, which is ostensibly brain rot, but people, for some reason, really, really love that. So, is that an indictment of how dumb their content is, or how bad you've made your content that people are choosing that over the fact that you're spending millions upon millions of dollars to watch stuff that nobody's showing up for? Well, and that's the whole thing that they've kind of like painted themselves into, right? Or dug themselves into, is they had these overblown budgets, right?

1:11:59They're not making any profit into theater or even on streaming. So, they are losing money, they're bleeding money, right? Completely bleeding money left and right. So, yeah, I mean, I would be very concerned seeing like, look, like you said, people are already choosing, they're already choosing YouTube, they're already choosing other streamers to watch, you know, Twitch, right? We have so many choices now that this is one more thing they can afford to lose out on, right? Deadpool and Wolverine lost money. It ended up losing money even though it made a billion dollars at the box office because it just costs so damn much for them to make. Like, if they can't get those budgets down, I don't know what they want us to... Like, I get it, like life only gets more expensive. It doesn't get cheaper to make movies these days. I mean, part of that is why they won't go out and film on location anymore, which is the part that hurts me the most more than everything. I agree. Is not seeing physical locations. Not even to say there has to be bad CGI, but I mean, I don't know if anybody remembers it,

1:13:00but I really like this movie called The Creator, which Gareth Edwards made back like two or three years ago. And for the most part, it was less blue screen and more tons of like unbelievable animation done on top of physical locations that they went out to go and shoot on, which just made it feel more real to me on a budget that was like a quarter of the budget of what they're giving for most of these big budget movies. I think it cost $80 million and they did it on like an FX. They did it on a cheaper, on cheaper cameras and stuff like that. But the budgets are way over the top of these. That was why two years ago it was actually the best year they'd had in a long time because it was like Oppenheimer, Barbie, and a couple of other ones were all $100 million movies, which were like the biggest movies of the year. $100 million is nothing for them these days. No, it's not. And like you said, I mean, they're basically pricing themselves out, man. They got to find a way to make these things cheaper. And funny enough, AI can do that. Yeah, I can make it cheaper for them, right?

1:14:00But here's the thing. Now there's a new strike they're talking about happening. Yeah, we have to worry about that this year. Another strike, which by the way, if this happens, that's it. This is the end. They can't afford another strike. They can't do. The last strike already has them in the hole. Yeah. So they do another one. They never recovered from the last strike. Nobody is it. Nobody is recovered from the last strike. No. If anybody knows that there's a there's a guy on Instagram, his name's producer Patrick. He's really great. He posts these great informative videos about what's going on in Hollywood. He was like a he was a former. I mean, he might still be, but he was a reality TV producer who now gives a lot of inside baseball on what's going on in Hollywood unbiased. You know, when things are bad, he absolutely points out the things that are bad. But you can tell he doesn't want to do that. He doesn't take joy in pointing out the things are bad because it's his livelihood. That's what he does for a living. And he's pointing out the fact that look, the studio lots are empty. Nobody's filming here because it's cheaper to go film in the UK and get tax credits.

1:15:03We've got stuff just starting up again right now in the US because Gavin Newsom finally after dragging his feet for years, you know, reinvigorated the California film economy by getting some more tax credits their way. And they were going to make Baywatch, which I did a whole video on how Hollywood needs Baywatch to succeed because the idea here is like they wanted to film this shit in South Africa. They wanted to film it in Australia. They wanted to film it anywhere but here because it costs a fortune to film stuff in the US. That's crazy. But because of the tax credits, they're filming it in the US. And I said they need to put literally gods and goddesses on camera. There cannot be uglies. There cannot be fatties. There cannot, like, you, you know, okay, you want somebody's mom to be fat, fine. But everybody that's on that beach is a lifeguard that are look like the height of human achievements. Absolutely. Like cream of the crop. Yeah. To do that. They're like the fact that they're filming in California. The fact that they have to make a big deal out of the fact that they're filming in California.

1:16:05Tells you how bad it is. When, you know, and it's not like it's always been that way. But we know that for a long time, most productions, especially for mid-budget shows, were in Vancouver. X-Files was in Vancouver for the first six years that it was a show. Yeah. You're looking at the Detroit, you know, or, you know, the fall of the making cars, right? That's what we're looking at with Hollywood, man. A lot of people, they hear like, yeah, Hollywood makes movies. You guys understand, man, California, that's like their main product. Okay? What are their products? So, if you can't afford to do business in your own home, right? And other, every other place is given a tax break, man. Gavin Newsom is killing California now with this. It's like, I know so many filmmakers, man. And I'm not going to say their names because they'll probably get in trouble. But they do a lot of gorilla filmmaking, man. Because they just kind of forward to do it the legal way. LA, that's so.

1:17:06They did that. That was like what Rambo was like, or I'm sorry. That was what Rocky was like. They had to do the scene on the stairs. They had to go without permission. Oh, yeah. I remember the first time I went to Philadelphia. I've got a lot of friends out there. I ran up the Rocky steps and did this. And you should have seen the look of shame everybody gave me. Like, they just walked off. Like, there's people walking by who live there. They're just like, oh, my God. Another one. Another one. Like, nobody's original. Nobody's original. But it's a look that you. So you've got chick like Illinois gives some halfway decent tax credits. It doesn't even look like Georgia is the market that it used to be. Anymore outside of like Tyler Perry is out there. I think there's less stuff going on in Georgia from when I understand. California is a desert wasteland when it comes to production. And like you said, that's their export. It's not about the celebrities. They're going to go wherever the movie. It's like Chris Hemsworth. He's like, I moved out to California. Nothing shooting here in paparazzi follows you home. That's not who's losing out on work. It's below the line workers.

1:18:06It's the gaffers. It's the people who do all of the work behind the scenes to make the movie look like it does. Yeah. And you know, it's funny. It's like, you know, there was always like that trope of, you know, people coming off the bus. You know, into L.A. They become an actor and or director or screenwriter and. And they're coming from these small towns. Guys, there's no reason to go to L.A. anymore. Like they're, they're, they're, they're saved the bus trip. Save the plane flight. Uh, you know, if you go to L.A. You're going to be a bartender or a waiter. Like, and that's literally it. That's about the most romantic story they have. There's the actress who started out as, you know, bartenders and waiters and then eventually made a big. Yeah. But the most, I mean, that might have actually been since, let's, let's around this whole thing out with like a return to Wonderman. Which is like, that was actually kind of one of the things that they, they talk about in that show is like, you just must be, it just must be emotionally abusive to yourself to look at the amount of people trying to be actors and not give up. You have to be kind of a psychopath to not give up.

1:19:06The, the scene where he goes for the audition, like that audition room. Guys, if you've never been in an audition room, holy shit. Like, Wonderman kind of nails it. There's other shows I do it too, but it is, it is so sucking being in that audition. Especially in the waiting room when you're waiting with every other actor trying to do the same thing that you're about to go do, right? And you're sitting there questioning yourself, you're sitting there. Tell a reticure from 2311 Racing. Game night's fun until someone spends five minutes lining up one shot. Chalk, breathe, re-chalk, still aiming. While they figure it out, I fire up Champa Casino. I can spin anywhere, anytime, and there's always a new social casino game every week. Spins happen way faster than that shot. Play now at chumbacacino.com. Let's chumbac sponsored by chumbacacino. No purchase necessary. VGW Group Fortware prohibited by law. 21 plus terms and conditions apply. They're like, why am I here? Like, you go through the whole gambit, right? And then once you get in front of those cameras to do your audition, man.

1:20:06Those guys fuck with you purposely, man. Like, they, they, they try to trip you up. It is like, it's hell. Like, it's like a torture is kind of thing, man. It sounds awful. Like, like having two auditions sounds awful. Oh, it's brutal, man. Like, you're putting yourself on display and these people just shit on you. It's, you have to really love being an actor. Yeah. To go through that. I remember there was a, there was an article about Kristen Stewart saying that only men are method actors because acting is by Nate, by its very nature, embarrassing, because it's kind of silly. And she's like, only men do it because they have to, like, inflate the sense of what they're doing. So to, like, get them past the awkwardness of what are wrong. No, she's not wrong. That's the funny thing about it. I was like, well, you know, she's probably right. Women are more inherently willing to, it's why women love to share embarrassing, like, stuff about themselves online. And we're all like the way I would need to be water-borted for you to admit that. But women love that aspect of it. So acting probably comes more naturally to them. Yeah.

1:21:06No, she's totally right about that. And it's a, it's a brutal process. And the funny thing about it, though, is like, there's, there's this weird romantic, like, remembrance of it for some reason. Like, I hear people like in Hollywood all the time talking about, oh, I remember going to this one audition. And, and they're saying it was such joy. But I'm like, I don't think you had joy when you did that audition. No, no, no. Rosie, Rose colored glasses, man. Yeah. Oh, exactly. But here's the thing. Because now what they're doing is, they've gotten rid of that. Now it's just all videos. It's head shots. It's, yeah. It's phone, right? It's, it's, you're not even doing like, you know, the traditional audition anymore. Yeah. And, and they do, they basically just send them, like, you have to send in a video. So when they were taught, I was reading this thing on the Baywatch audition. 14,000 people recorded their own videos at home. And only 2000 got calls to, to come in to, to test for it. 2000 people. That's crazy. That's crazy. That is insane. All right, man. Well, what, what's that? What do you got going on in your channel right now? Oh, yeah, man. So guys, I just put on a video on why we need to get rid of black kiss.

1:22:08I was, hey, I was going to bring up the Baptist, but I was like, we're kind of done with it. We've covered it. We did all that. Yeah. I feel like we've talked about Tourette's way too much. But, um, but yeah, if you guys haven't seen that video, why we need to get rid of black kiss rewind. Please watch it because it's kind of hilarious. And it might piss some people off, but it's all right. Um, but yeah, watch that. And, uh, cast me tomorrow night with a Nina infinity. Uh, last week we had Anna Kasperian on. Yeah. And that was a wild show. So, uh, yeah, check us out tomorrow. And Thursday, it's either VR real, my show, or I'm going to be on the Jack show with Anna that Star Wars girl. Awesome. Uh, and guys, uh, what's, uh, give me your socials really quick so they can find you. Oh, yeah. Guys, follow me at verbal riot. I mean, I'm verbal riot on all, on all platforms, verbal riot show is, uh, is the tag. Follow me everywhere. Perfect. Uh, again, I want to thank each and every one of you. If you are one of the, the ones watching this on the, the member side of this channel, we

1:23:08would not be here if it wasn't for support from you guys. The later this channel has been around for now, little over four years now. We started, uh, I guess early 2022, technically at the end of 2021, but early 2022. But we never opened up memberships and doing so. It meant that what I wanted to do is I wanted to be able to give you guys more content. And I really do feel like I'm always working and I always want to be growing, putting out new stuff on top of doing, you know, the show five days a week. And I'm hoping to also get into more movie reviews. I am contemplating making those members only things as well because, uh, I love doing the movie reviews. But most of the time I find that movie reviewers do well with movie reviews. And when I just throw movie reviews up here, people are like, what is this? It doesn't make any sense. So again, I wouldn't be here without your guys' support. So thank you all so much for that. If you are listening to this on the audio version of this podcast, also thank you guys so much for all of that. Make sure you go follow verbal riot on all the platforms.

1:24:08He does great work. If you guys want to follow me, I am on Instagram and on X at Brett Dasevik on both of those platforms. What you could do if you're listening to this, go and send some requests for somebody you would like to see on another edition of this PCC bonus content. I really want to reach out to more people and have discussions like these. It is so much fun to be able to do this in a way that doesn't feel kind of bogged down by the structure of the normal show where most of the time I'm doing five things at once when we're live. And so I don't even talk well because half the time I'm trying to do three other things. I'm basically trying to not sound stupid while we're live. So again, throw me some suggestions for who you'd want to see here. If you listen to the audio version of this podcast, Amazon Music, Apple Podcast, Pandora, and Spotify. You can also rate and review an Apple Podcast, which is a great way to help the channel out as well. And if you want to follow us on social media, we are on Twix at pop culture underscore show. Facebook at pop culture crisis Instagram at pop culture crisis pod. Guys, we will be, well, I guess I will be back with another brand new episode of PCC tomorrow.

1:25:12This should be going up Thursday in the evening. So I will see you guys on the next one later. Bye.