
About this episode
In this episode of The Chad & Cheese Podcast, hosts Joel Cheesman and Chad Sowash interview Barry Wolfe, a former Fortune 500 HR leader turned consultant and author of It’s All In Your Head: Why Psychology Doesn’t Help Your Employees Deliver Value – And What Can (2025).
Wolfe critiques the "bullshit psychology industrial complex," comparing tools like Myers-Briggs and DISC to 19th-century phrenology, arguing they’re unscientific and fail to predict performance.
He blames executives’ desire for easy answers for their reliance on these flawed methods, even as AI risks amplifying the problem with recycled "gibberish." Instead, Wolfe’s Value-Centric Leadership model urges leaders to define business value through a “same page” document and replace appraisals with “success maps” focusing on measurable deliverables.
HR, he suggests, can lead by demanding clarity on 3-5 value-added results per role. The candid, humorous discussion, peppered with banter about a Napoleon-era jacket, targets HR pros and leaders, urging them to ditch platitudes for results. Wolfe plugs a free Chapter 3 at argoshr.com/book, and the hosts endorse the book as “anti-bullshit.”
Get every episode summarized
Each time The Chad & Cheese Podcast publishes, we email you a written briefing from the transcript — the topics, who appeared, and any specific claims, with the ad reads skipped.
Email me new episodesFree for 3 shows. No card needed.
Hosts & guests
No transcript yet
This episode has not been transcribed. Request it and it moves to the front of the queue.
More episodes
More from The Chad & Cheese Podcast

iCIMS Shuffles, Phenom Splurges, & Greenhouse Gets Fashionable
The Chad & Cheese Podcast
May 8, 20261:03:04pending

Shredded: Blomma, Dex, Checkr, HireClix, LinkedIn, Greenhouse, Indeed, & More
The Chad & Cheese Podcast
May 7, 20265:47pending

Talent Disruption Through the Ages with Jeff Taylor
The Chad & Cheese Podcast
May 5, 202639:55pending

Personio Stays Home
The Chad & Cheese Podcast
May 1, 202658:33pending