Is this the beginning of the end for Reform?

0:00This is a global player, original podcast. Three minutes after 10 is the time. If you do see Diana, but then do pass on that interview. We conducted yesterday with Luke Harding about the sheer scale of Donald Trump's betrayal of Ukraine and Vladimir Putin's war-mongering dishonesty and depravity in the context of the West. But I will be paying precisely as much attention to Diana but stupid comments, as I would to stupid comments by any other backbench MP with absolutely no prospect of getting anywhere near power at any point in the near or distant future and who is currently clinging on to her party membership by her fingernails. I'll leave you to wonder what it is about Diana, but that Trump's extraordinary levels of attention from some corners of the media, that would appear to have learned nothing from their own coverage of the Cambridge Professor Jason Arday.

1:01What is it about Diana, I wonder, that means she's going to get more attention for saying these things, then, for example, Jeremy Corbyn would, a former Labour leader. I can't quite put my finger on it at the moment. I'll leave you to wrestle with it. I'll leave you to wrestle with it. Maybe I'm sure it can't be that difficult, can it? Anyway, four minutes after 10. In the context of that conversation, I will later in the programme expand to you the meaning of the word tanky, which has come quite late to me in life, as a neat way of understanding why some people seem to be unable to move beyond loyalty to what was the Soviet Union and allow themselves instead with observable reality. You've also got the Nathan Gil question, why would anybody pay more attention to Diane Abbott than to a man who literally took bribes from a Kremlin stooge in return for parroting Kremlin talking points? I don't know whether it works in Diana, but it's favour or whether it works against her that she appears to have parroted Kremlin talking points for free,

2:03just like Nigel Farage does. We must presume, of course, his finances remain somewhat opaque. We know that he likes to keep enormous donations secret from foreign-based billionaires and therefore we can but speculate about what other enormous sums of money he may have received from other sources and has more successfully managed to keep secret than the five million pounds that he trailed from Christopher Harbourn in return for and then just insert whatever answer you can remember him giving, because they have been to the best of my knowledge, at least three. It's the question I get asked more, I mean you've distracted me already. This is why I stop looking at my messages when I come on first thing in the morning. I wait until the first hydration break. You've taken it a little bit too seriously. I'll run through some of the funny answers in a moment, but it wasn't yoga robin leads, it was Tai Chi and no, I'm never going to tell you, I probably will, but no, I'm never going to tell you what happened at Tai Chi. The question I get asked most often right now,

3:03if I am lucky enough to bump into you when I'm out on a bow, is do you think he's finished? Do you think Farage has fudged it? Do you think reform are done for? And it's one of those moments where I share with you one of my all-time favourite quotes from popular culture that we could probably all recite together these days. It's the hope that gets me. It's not the despair, I can deal with the despair. It's the hope that gets me every time. Listen, why does it matter? Answer, have a look at the United States of America. You have a man in the White House who, the kindest thing about whom you can say, if we're going to talk about Russia a bit, is if he were a Kremlin puppet, what would he have done differently from what he has done with regards not just to Ukraine, but of course the broader spectrum of world affairs. If he were actually being blackmailed or bribed by Vladimir Putin, how would he have behaved differently on the world stage, but particularly with reference to Ukraine,

4:03since the illegal invasion? And the answer is really hard, because you can't really think of anything he would have done differently in the event that he was actually on the Kremlin payroll. So that's one of the reasons why you need to worry about the prospect of a reform UK government. They have form in this field, not just for transferring secret and enormous sums of money from foreign base billionaires, but also for transferring sums of money in a previous incarnation, when they called themselves, I think, you Kip, but Nathan Gill was both a protégé and a close friend and a very close colleague of Nigel Farage, and throughout he was parroting Kremlin talking points in return for cash, in return for used notes passed under tables, while to be fair, to the best of our knowledge, Farage was saying almost exactly the same thing without needing to be paid for it. That's just one reason why you should be worried. The other of course is that, again, a quick glance over the Atlantic, and you'll see the utter destruction of truth and evidence. I think we're up to five. Let me just check with my top team of operatives. Have we got five journalists now banned from the reform UK conference,

5:06literally for telling the truth? I said I wasn't going to talk about Russia much today, but that's a tiny bit Stalinist, isn't it? Why have you been banned from the party conference? Oh, well, I reported something. Oh, did it turn out not to be true? Oh no, it turned out to be completely true. That's why they banned me. Six, I tell you the light, we're up to six. Six journalists currently banned from the reform UK conference for telling the truth, and that's the ones that applied. I think we can be fairly confident about what would happen if I were to chuck my hat into that particular ring. So we're up to six. The party of free speech has currently banned six first-class journalists from its own conference. So the question I get asked most often is not, are you, right, Judgment Dave, Nigel Farage? Because that might explain why I've never seen you in the same room together since 2014. And it is not when are you going to interview him on your show again? Because my door is always open, Sam. My door is always open, perpetually and permanently. Stephen Nottingham asks, is it, what is your Sprouts recipe?

6:07Now I share that regularly, Steve. There would be no need to button home me in private, or indeed in public to get the answer to that question. And full marks to the 37 people who have suggested the question I get asked most often in public by you is, what was it like? I will explain that one day for new listeners, but for old listeners, let's consider it a little bit of a niche comment. Ten minutes after ten is the time. And I don't know, is the answer? I mean, in a logical universe, they are finished. In a universe or in a country that cares about five million pounds worth of secret donations, then obviously they're finished. In a country that cares about deep and long-standing associations with people that take bribes from a foreign power or from a representative of a foreign power, then obviously, they would be finished. In a country that cares about councils being run by 12-year-olds and driven to ridiculous positions of infighting and absurdity,

7:09with councilors literally complaining that it's not fair to hold a council meeting because they've got no idea what's going on and they don't understand anything. In a country that cares about such things, then they would, of course, be finished. But what have we learnt? And of course he gave, he's still boycotting the BBC Farage, but he managed to simultaneously boycott and give an interview to them yesterday in which he complained about all the people who complain about him. How many, I mean, good Lord. Nadine Doris spent almost her entire career as culture secretary, trying to get me sacked from this job. Little old me, little old me, lying about me in select committees, which are, of course, covered by parliamentary privilege, so not subject to liable proceedings, unluckily, and trying to get me sacked, contacting badgering my bosses here at LBC Towers to actually get me sacked. But no, it's them that are constantly complained about. I think I've got complaints in at the moment. Have a knife from 30 P. Lee for calling Nigel Farage names. That's how thick-skinned and tough they are and dedicated to free speech.

8:10Six journalists, currently banned. Actually, the question I get asked second most, you're quite right. A lot of you have picked up on this. Is where did you get your giant coffee mug? To which the answer is A, it's tea, and B, it was specially commissioned, and the company went bust shortly afterwards, so as far as we're aware, it will be impossible to emulate, or recreate. So, this week, the question assumes a new resonance, not just because they're holding a party conference in a city where, on this Bob Generic, recently complained there were too many black and brown faces, but also because they have been overtaken in the polls for the first time by the leader of the Conservatives, Camille Badernauch, who pledged about a year and a half ago that there was absolutely no way she would be resufferling her shadow cabinet before the next general election, and resuffled her shadow cabinet last weekend. Promoting the man who was number three in the Treasury when Liz Truss set fire to the nation's finances to Shadow Chancellor. And they've overtaken Ristor. Ristor was the other one, led by the bloke,

9:11who I think he phoned the police when some charity rowers were spotted off the coast of Great Yarmus because he thought they were refugees. I mean, if you look at where Great Yarmus is, I think it's clear that you could actually row there is a magnificent confection, but I guess brains have never been the strong suit of people attracted to that kind of politics or that kind of rhetoric. And that's the tragedy as well, in a way, in that there are lots of people who don't care about any of these things. They don't care about secret gifts. They don't care about Russian bribes. They don't care about counselling competence. They don't care about, wow, they do care about racism. We'll get to that, but they don't care about all of the other reasons that are in the normal universe, whole an organisation or whole a political party below the waterline. So when people ask me, do you think he has fudged it? I answer no. I don't. And the reasons are bleak. I mean, he is obviously losing his touch and it is obviously a one man band.

10:13But imagine a hideous crime were committed tomorrow with Brown or Black Skin. Just imagine. That's all it has to be. It doesn't have to be somebody who's recently arrived here, it doesn't have to be somebody who is an asylum seeker, it doesn't have to be somebody who has any criminal record or form or whatsoever. Just imagine if a terrible crime were committed tomorrow by somebody with Brown or Black Skin. And I still think that our media would be calibrated to provide coverage to the man who has absolutely nothing to say about crimes committed by white people, but where the rest of us see horror and tragedy sees opportunity and self-advancement. So if that were to happen on a regular enough basis, I think he may be able to regain the political momentum that has deserted him. The finances, I mean, you know, I thought I lived in a country where small sea conservatives really cared about this stuff.

11:13And if somebody is taking 5 million pounds in secret from a mega rich foreign-based billionaire, that would be the end of their political career. But you're talking about people who profess to care deeply about carestaff as spectacles and who now profess to care not a jot about Nigel Farage's 5 million pounds. So I don't think it is game over despite some members of the media who have been much more sympathetic to the characters involved in the parties, the various parties he has led. I don't think it is over. Other pollsters have still got them ahead of the Tories, but Labour under Andy Burnham have pushed them into second place. Perhaps unexpectedly, certainly seemed a long way off under the last Labour leader, but these bounces are rarely permanent, although the Andy Burnham one is sustaining in such a way that the right-wing media is now not just sharpening their cudgles, but very, very rapidly unsheathing them.

12:13I just don't think. And I don't, maybe I'm too pessimistic. The fact that you know we look at Donald Trump's approval ratings and everybody else says they've gone through the floor and I say, how can anybody still support him? How can anybody still think that Donald Trump is anything other than a depraved lunatic? There's a war in Iran. Absolute gold standard of the things that he promised he'd never do. A pointless foreign wars, which he's losing, by the way. The abandonment of Ukraine. Before you even look at domestic politics, how could anybody in Britain still hold a torch for Donald Trump who has betrayed Ukraine, something that was a rare example in British politics of unity, although of course Farage tried to blame the illegal invasion of Ukraine on Ukraine, just as he did with the illegal invasion of Crimea. Then you've got Iran, something that Farage felt that we should have been getting involved in, but which events of tortures has been and was always destined to be an unmitigated disaster.

13:16And yet still, the idea that there is something admirable, something desirable, something impressive about the man's sustains. It persists. And that's the main reason why I'm pessimistic about all of the trouble surrounding finances, surrounding incompetence, surrounding infighting, surrounding all of the things that we've listed. I still don't think that they are hold below the waterline. I still don't think that you are, or we are currently witnessing the end of the greatest political drift of our time. It is 17 minutes after 10 you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC. And the question is, as Kenny Badenock of all people overtakes, or Kenny Badenock's conservatives overtake Reform UK in an opinion poll for the first time in more than 500 days, is this the beginning of the end for reform?

14:16Or do you like, I mean, obviously this is one of those phonies where I want you to talk me out of my own sincerely held position. I mean, I can't say 52, 48, can I? Because it's actually sadly a little bit deeper than that. But I'm 60, 40. I'm certainly swayable. And do you know what really breaks my heart? And this is the thing I'll never forgive the far right for, whether they're operating in the media or whether they're operating in politics. It spoils your view of your own people, doesn't it? It spoils your view of your own fellow citizens. Fat that people can really forgive almost anything that racism is offered to them in an attractive enough way. That's the thing that I think is hard to undo and hardest to forgive. It's happened in families. I mean, messages I get off people who are falling out with their own family because they're swallowing all the nonsense that's being shoved in their direction by people desperate that we don't talk about all of the things that we talked about yesterday. Like, that fair distribution of wealth or equality or a decency.

15:16That's a stead just point at some people and shout about how much we hate them. It breaks my heart to see that happen. On a national level, God knows what it would be like on a family based level. But do you think they are, do you think we are witnessing the beginning of the end? Because under almost all circumstances, the point at which you get overtaken by a party led by Kemi Badernaught would be the point at which you would either pack up and go home or start, if you're not the top man, start agitating for change. 03456060973 is the number that you need. What are you reckon? The Conservatives have overtaken Reform UK in an opinion poll for the first time in more than 500 days. Farage is looking thin, skinned, petulant and weak. He's looking very small. He's looking to be all of the things that some others have always known. He is. Winy, small, self-pitying, self-serving and self-pitying always go hand in hand.

16:18But will it matter enough for the kind of people minded to vote for him to change their mind? I think that's it really. Hit the numbers now. You will get through. 03456060973. Do you think it's a little bit too soon to write the political epitaphs for Nigel Farage in person or Reform UK in general? 034560973. And I should have added to the list, even the Sun newspaper today carries a column in which it's pointed out that it's a party that has absolutely nothing to offer beyond complaining about immigration in general and small votes in particular. So is it possible that the blue here is? So apart from the migrants, what else are Reform about? To huge sraids of undecided voters like me, right, Colin Robertson, eager to know what else have you got? You can answer that question as well, I suppose. What else have they got? But because I'm not sure that matters. I'm not sure that the absence of anything else matters.

17:22I think if Donald Trump has taught us anything, it is that if you offer up demonization of the other, if you offer up at various forms of racism, then many, many people, I used to think it was between 10 and 20% of a population, but it might be between 10 and 30. Many, many people will forgive you almost anything else, up to and including, professing to care passionately about care, stammer spectacles, but not giving a who to apparently, about a secret 5 million pound donation from a foreign-based billionaire. So that is the, that's the fear. And that is why when people ask me what I think and ask me whether or not I think we are looking at the beginning of the end, I say no, because if you've got 22% that can forgive everything that has happened so far, and then the possibility of people creeping or crawling back in the coming months, particularly if there is an opportunity for him to capitalize

18:23and exploit a terrible tragedy as he did with the killing of Henry Novak, against, of course, the express wishes of Henry Novak's family, then about 22% can start climbing again. And that is when the prospect or the conversation about this being somehow the beginning of the end will fall apart like a cheap suit. For the avoidance of doubt, I obviously want to be wrong, but regular listeners to the programme will be superimpressed to learn that I don't think I am. Staff's in Peter, but Staff, what would you like to say? Oh, that was quick. That's how it works, Staff. Well, what your monologue sometimes goes on for days. No, this is very true. You've got on before 11 o'clock, it's a record. Go on, answer the question. Right, OK, I'm going to come to this in a different angle. All those that left the Tories, who are a little bit more on the right, left to reform UK. Not all of them, but a lot of them. But the more the right, right, that's sort of right of me,

19:26because she was a woman, because she's black, they've got the lid-dems who have took on the more moderate Tories. And Temi has said now that she doesn't want centrist in her party. She's threatened MPs not to go down the next Vero route, or they won't stand for her. She's going hard on immigration. They're all going hard on immigration. Yeah, that is the part from the Lib Dems and the Greens, but they're all going hard on immigration. So, so, both of you, what I think has happened is that if anybody that votes reform, we all know what sort of character they are. Well, let me read you something. Hang, because you say that, and I think I do. And I'm probably not exactly winning over people who insist that they are repulsed by all of them. Hang on, let me, I need to say that. Now, stop talking when I'm interrupting you. Honestly, stop interrupting me when I'm interrupting you. I think that if you're voting for this party,

20:26you are either racist or very comfortable or supremely untroubled by racism. Because of all the comments about black faces and brown faces, whether they're on the streets of Birmingham or whether they're in television adverts. But I could be wrong. I mean, those are the people I don't really get to talk to, who insist. No, no, no, I hate all the racism. It's all the other stuff I love. Yeah, I think the form has gone too far, to be honest with you. I mean, I don't know a lot of people over the years who love black music, everything like that, and they've come in out with this thing. And it's not just stop the votes now, James. No, of course it isn't. It's also deport immigrants. And Katie Lam said something about even people that were living in the UK for a long while needs deporting to actually put the balance back into the country. Can you remember that? I think I can. Yeah, I mean, obviously I'm going to have to correct you if you've slightly misremembered. But I don't think that you have. Yeah, so basically I think just cut a long story short, which I find very difficult like you.

21:27Yes, and is the fact that you've got the toys that are in the middle for more what we consider as that right wing centaurite. Some of them have gone to and the dance. This loves some of them gone to reform. And I think the ones that have gone to live, then or the more moderate like toys have gone back to the toy. I don't think it's going to affect the labour vote. And but I do think that her rhetoric. And I'm sorry, so this her rhetoric is really offensive to me. I'm disabled. Sorry, I don't want to get set. So my sentence got autism and the horrible, horrible things that's coming out the toy party. Chris Philp and all of them. I do also be James. I've always voted Labour, but you know, the toys aren't the toys anymore. And I think you said that before. So you're suggesting that she's took it so far to the right. So they're in the same trough then.

22:28So that's one of the reason why she's cannibalizing some of reform support and the numbers are fairly small. Because she is. The disability thing is the thing is absolutely disgusting. It is also. I mean, I'm on pit. And I, you know, I don't choose to be on pit demonization of the disabled is incoming. I mean, it was beginning to appear under the last incarnation of the Conservative party. But you're right. And we warned about it. And we said, look out for that. Mel Strider think led the way on that sense that everybody must be swinging the lead. In the same way that everybody who has come here from another country must be a criminal. Then everybody who is claiming a disability benefit must be a fraud stuff. And it's so boring. But it's so necessary to talk about. It's so boring when you can see it and hear it happening. And you've got somebody just going, oh yes, well, you know, there are also, I was no such thing as ADHD. Everybody throughout history who goes down the line of trying to tar everybody with the behavior of one miscrean is a, you know, a weapons grade wrong.

23:32But it works. And that's why I'm not as, or a more pessimistic than you are. I don't know. I mean, it's a lovely lady in Telford, isn't it? Who fit the category once? Who are these people that don't know how to choose or don't know who to choose between the conservatives and reform? Maybe Steph's nailed it. It's just different flavors of unpleasantness. And there's nobody there then if you are a lifelong Tory voter who either isn't racist or recognizes the idiocy of Brexit, the absolute truth of climate change science. And the importance of the European Convention on Human Rights. Where the hell do you go? If you're terrified by public ownership or your abs and it's not a criticism, you're perfectly entitled to be. You find the idea of public ownership absolutely anathema. But you recognize that Brexit was stupid, you hate racism, and you don't enjoy the demonization of the disabled. And you think that like Winston Churchill, the European Convention on Human Rights was a really good thing.

24:35Oh, and you recognize the necessity of addressing climate change. And even if we can't fix the whole thing, we should do everything we can to fix whatever tiny bit of it that we could. Where the heck do you go? And where does that play into the question of whether or not we are perhaps witnessing the beginning of the end of reform? And remember, one of the best ways to talk me out of this is to tell me why you are confident. They're still poised to govern. You are confident that we haven't seen nothing yet. It's half past ten Dominic Ellis has your headlines. It is ten thirty three and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC where the news that came he made in nox stories of overtaken Nigel Farage's reform in one poll. I prompted some speculation that this and of course the broader problems that he faces with regards to party funding and indeed personal secret donations. And of course the sense of I don't know what you'd call it just a sort of they all seem so angry all the time.

25:36I was looking at something extraordinary this morning. If I told you that a previously very high profile British politician has started complaining about the Normans, which politician you can't you can only play this game if you don't know the answer. So someone very brexity but but but quite respect. You see I'm going to say quite respectable and then you're going to find out who it is and you're going to say, oh my god James, I can't believe you call him respectable but technically respectable. A very brexity formerly prominent politician who has now started complaining about the Normans partly in response to the arrival of the bio tapestry on these shores. Who would you guess? Who would you go for first? But the idea that camey Badernau, a Steph just articulated, has somehow successfully tempted relatively toxic voters back to the Tory fold, is a thought I hadn't had actually before.

26:36A personal popularity has risen because she provides plenty of popcorn at PMQs, although that appears set to change after yesterday's performance. And some of the stuff she's saying about climate change and the European Convention on Human Rights despite being hideous is clearly popular. And therefore I hadn't really thought of it happening this way. The real threat to the talk to Nigel Farage is not coming from the bloke in Great Yarmouth, who phones the police when charity rowers go by, or the Labour Party resurgent or at least revitalised under Andy Burnham. And he's becoming in fact from, from Kenny Badernau, Mozin Birmingham, Moe, are we jumping the go? We're not weak, because I'm quite pessimistic, but are people jumping the gun? Are predictions of his political demise somewhat premature? Well, if I were a gambling man, I don't think he's going to be PM. Did you ever?

27:36Yes. Six months ago. Did you really? Yes. Because I thought Kierstarma was going to be, well, I thought Kierstarma was going to be a lady leader until the next election. And because of his personal standing with the electorate, the antipathy he caused amongst would be Labour voters, I just thought that that opened their very narrow passage for a Farage Premiership. It would have been messy. I think the next Parliament is going to be messy, James. Because the Greens would have cannibalised some of the Labour vote because they were so unhappy with Kierstarma about many things. But I suppose in that one by election that they won most obviously it would have been Gaza. Yeah, all sorts. I think the S&P in Scotland are going to make a bit of a comeback. The Greens, some independence. I even see the Tories scrapping away with the Lib Dems and a few seats exchanging around through there because the boundaries are so skinny.

28:41That last election was such a freakish election in so many regards. For general election? Yeah, that general election. The Loveless landslide. We're talking about something as wide as an ocean but as shallow as a pond in terms of matured. The shallow as a puddle. Yes. So I could not, you know, people have an idea of what the next Parliament looks like actually from quite far out. I have absolutely no idea. You know, any, you know, that's the thing here. So I think, I think going back to Farage, his biggest worry, if I were him, and this is the catastrophic mistake he has made, I think, in terms of his pathway to becoming PM. He made a pitch to get disappointed Tories to come over to his party. On the pretext that reforms were going to be the new standard bearers of the right. Robert Generick, Sweller Bravaman will soon realize that he is not going to be PM reform and not going to be the governing party.

29:43They did not join reform to sit in the far corners on the House of Commons. They joined the reform out of personal ambition. Yes. You'd add Danny Krueger to that list. Danny Krueger and all the others, you know, they're the ones that I think Nigel Farage should be most worried about. Because they want to, yeah, and I suppose I think they'd be deluded actually to think that they would appeal to his base. His base is a personality cult a little bit like Donald Trump's. Correct. But they're, I mean, that level of ambition often embraces delusion, doesn't it? They're very peculiar nature of our electorate. They're incredibly loyal at the margins. The Tories can't go big. Look, there might be many Tories out there that may agree with reform. But out of almost sloppish loyalty and stubbornness, they will continually vote conservative in the same way.

30:47I just got a message about that. My dad's going to vote conservative because he always does. Yes. And I think this is something that, you know, I think some of the thinkers within reform have not really thought of. And that's why Kenny Baydonock still is on the pitch. And when you've got that base of about 18, 19 percent, and he can't go any lower, he only weighs up. I think the problem I have. And I'm conscious of condescension, but you know, we're living in an era of hatred. And you look at what's happened in America and think back to the times you thought, well, maybe we shouldn't be so rude about the people who support Donald Trump. Maybe the invasion of Iran is going to be a good idea. Maybe he's not going to start turning the country into a place where entirely innocent people get shot in the face by immigration authority. All of the things that the worst predictions about Donald Trump involved have come completely true. And people voted for it, even though it was obvious what was going to happen. But I'm still conscious of condescension. I'm still conscious of saying what I'm about to say to you, which is you're really talking about two people fighting for the votes of people who don't understand much and don't care about anything except their sort of atavistic desires to see fewer brown faces on the streets around them.

32:00Yeah, and look at that. And it was only a cause, camey badenot has has a you know, she is a black woman and yet the people she appears to be fighting for the votes she appears to be fighting for the people that cheer on his pop generic when he complains about there being too many people like you in your hometown. But sure, and I think look at the conservatives were it's a here right. There are certain suggestions. Some of the tallies have been thinking that they could be an election next May. Yeah, it's not impossible, but I think if there's a feeling that let's say Andy Burnham was to break the 30% mark. Let's go now because it's not going to get any better than this. Correct, because you know, there are so many headwinds out there. You know, the I worry for labor if they wish to go full term because the potential chaos of what Trump may do in America come 2028, 2029. And the headwinds that may create economically and just the general political vibe out there. That is a big risk for him to more or less synchronize this country's electoral cycle to what happens to in America.

33:06So I think yes, Andy Burnham will go early, but how early is anyone's. I love this. Yes, you're contributing to about six different phonens, all of which I'm interested in. All right, then we haven't even done that. We're going to have an early election or should we have an early, but what you're actually describing and I think you acknowledge this yourself. It's impossible to say almost anything with great confidence about anything, about the makeup of the next parliament, about the waxing and waning fortunes of the major political figures of the moment. And indeed about the imminent or otherwise of a general election. Yeah, it's bizarre here, and which is why. If you're coming back to Andy Burnham, you've got you think with 400 and plus MPs, a lot of MPs committed to him. Actually, at this moment, I mean, that's for sure that's very true. It does appear to have a lot of loyalty to himself. Okay, but with all those headwinds out there and everything else to potentially put the careers of 100, 120, potentially 150 on Labour MPs can cause a lot of disquietness.

34:12But it might be his best option. I hear you. Let's play a game. I'm going to read you some coverage from the telegraph of one of the things that we're discussing and I'm going to read you the first five or six sentences, right? And you can tell me whether or not you can spot the problem with this coverage. You ready? Yep, ready. Conservatives say survey leads shows they are coming back under Camille Badenau. The Conservatives have overtaken Reform UK in an opinion poll for the first time in more than 500 days. Camille Badenau's party gained 23% of support in a poll carried out by more in common between August 28 and 31st, beating Reform 22% into third place. The previous poll showed the toys ahead of Reform was conducted by focal data in April last year. It gave the toys 24% and Reform 23%. The Conservatives said the new findings showed that they were coming back under Mrs Badenau's leadership. However, Reform pointed out that other pollsters placed it ahead of the toys and said it expected to continue. So that's one, two, three, four, five, six sentences. I won't read you the rest. I'll just count them.

35:127, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. This can't go all the way to the end of the story. 13, 14, 15, 16. Yeah, I think it does. I think that can you spot what's missing from this story about an opinion poll? I'll be honest with you James. No, you can. Tori's came second, Reform came third. What's missing from the Daily Telegram stuff? No mention of who is winning. That's Brexit for it before you. It is. Yeah, the story is, oh, the stories of overtaken Reform. Let's not mention the fact that Labour is still. Why can't it? Well, even after a leadership period under Kirstama that was so poor they actually got rid of him. I think actually James leading on to that. There is a lead on though. There was soon start talking about the combined number. I don't know. They keep, they both keep ruling it out. And that's another reason why I'm not writing them off yet. Because, you know, who knows what would happen.

36:13And you make my job very difficult, Mo. I mean, you make it very enjoyable by being such a high caliber contributor. But you make it very difficult because you remind us that I think we're all just sort of licking our fingers, sticking it in the air and trying to work out which way the wind is blowing. If you've got the stories on 23 and Reform on 22 and they did announce some sort of electoral pact, you'd see a decline in both individual votes because people would be cross that they got into bed with the other lot. But of course, you'd leave Labour technically in a cocktail with that consolidation of the right-wing vote. And that would be a moment, wouldn't it? That would be when you discover whether or not the respectable tourists can hold their nose and go along with all the racism. And that is why perhaps you object to me using the word respectable to describe tourists, not Mo. You. And the Tory who is already complaining about the Romans in order to honour the arrival of the biotapistry on these shores. No one has guessed correctly. It's not Mark Francois. It's not Jacob Riesmog. Good guesses. Although I think technically, Mark Francois probably has more in common genetically with the Normans than he does.

37:13Or was it a stepfather? Anyway, I'll tell you who it was after this. It is 1048 U.R. Listening to James O'Brien on LBC, where we think there's probably seven journalists now who have been banned from the Reform UK party conference. They're clearly terrified of something and looking at the identity and the recent work of the journalists can involved. The thing that they are terrified of would appear to be the truth. But it was ever thus. And I wonder whether you feel as excited as some people do about the fact that they have now fallen behind Kemi Badernox Tory party in one poll, while Andy Burnham is doing so well at the Daily Telegraph manages to publish an entire story about the opinion poll that I am referring to without mentioning where Labour stood in it. I guess they just presume everybody knows they came first, but they didn't feel it necessary to tell you even by how much. Oh no, I tell a lie. There we go. It comes in at 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11.

38:14You find out in paragraph 11 that Labour had a narrow lead of three percentage points in the more in common survey. So Kemi Badernox having a lead of 1 point over Reform. That is time for celebrations. It shows that the Tories are coming back. That's the headline. Tories overtake Reform in poll for first time in 18 months. So a lead of 1 point is of course the celebration. A lead of 3 points is narrow. And it's people just think you're too stupid to notice for yourself. Joe is in Whittestable. Joe, what would you like to say? Well, I used to work for County Council down here. I did. I worked on a project which was funded by the National Lottery. And when I worked for this project, it soon became apparent for me. And this is sorry, this is before Reform took over County County Council. I clarify that. And what kept assuming being apparent to me is that who worked on this project was sort of cherry picked, if you like, the best of the best of County Council.

39:19I'm not saying that about me, just about the other people. And that basically meant was in this happened that we had to change direction or we had worries or whatever it might be. We could do that easily. You know, and we could get the most efficiency out of what we would do in our last bit. Yes. Drikes me. So slightly sticky phone line. I don't know if there's anything we can do about it. I don't want to put words into your mouth. But this idea that you come into power and I don't know that the Council experiences are getting reported widely enough that you come into power because you have been convinced by what I would loosely describe as nonsense or Twitter commentary about public spending and or immigration. And then you arrive in power and you realize that it's a lot harder than that, which is why they tend to quit these councils at a rate of knots. But your experience is acute, isn't it? Because you've got your face up against the window. I don't know if your average punter is aware of what has been going on with these councils.

40:22Well, that's right. And obviously since reform took over, it's been one disaster for another and whether it's due to inexperience or ineptitude, I'm not quite sure. It's not either or, mate. It's perfectly possible that it's both. It could be both, yeah. And the problem is though that the average punter in Kent who voted this way in the last council elections is either not going to know or care about all of the things that you were witnessing and describing. And that's the bit I don't get. That's the bit I don't understand. And that's why you end up reaching for the slightly unpleasant characterisation that as long as they keep demonizing immigrants, they'll forgive absolutely everything else. But I mean, I think on a wider scale, I think reform party nationally has also sort of been cherry picking except that they're true picking the worst rather than the best. And I was in the worst of the last Tory regime and they've all gone over, including, of course, Nadeem Zahawi, who must be reading Zia Yusuf's social media activity this morning with a win at least I hope he is.

41:22This is Zia Yusuf, who is the doughnut to reform UK who's been rewarded by the made up job as Shadow Something. The front runner being foisted on the people of Hoban by Labour to replace the former Prime Minister, Kierstarmour in our parliament was born in Somalia. Do you understand what's happening? Well, I do. The leader of Camden Council, who is incredibly well respected in the borough, is currently the front runner to become the candidate that Labour put up in that by election precipitated by Kierstarmour's due to the rise of the government. And she was a departure from parliament and she arrived in this country 30 or 40 years ago as a child refugee from Somalia and has done that thing that they keep telling us they want all the refugees to do, which is integrate. You can't get much more integrated than being elected Mayor of London three times on the trot or, indeed, becoming the leader of the council where you live. And of course, the reason I mentioned the Deams Ahawi is that he was born in Baghdad. He, indeed, published quite a nice memoir called The Boy From Baghdad.

42:23And according to his colleague in this party, he is part of this problem. So, Sundaq al-Ala the tireless journalist and director of British Future points out what you can do here effectively is say something like, you can say something about Nadim Zahawi that would be just as obnoxious and just as unpleasant as what, Ziyasuf is trying to say about the front runner being foisted on the people of his next example. Nigel Farage's home affairs spokesperson, I think this is him, I think this would be Ziyasuf himself, is a Muslim with parents born in Sri Lanka, or is that Suella Braverman, either way the point stands. Nigel Farage's home affairs spokesperson is a Muslim with parents born in Sri Lanka. Can't you see what's happening yet? Sundaq points out that's exactly the same rhetorical device that he's deploying to attack the woman that is poised to run for labor in Hoban. I'm not sure that that's been confirmed yet, although if you are following these things with interest, you will know that it has been confirmed, Zach Polanski, the leader of the Green Party is going to be the Green Party's candidate there.

43:31I think, cigar Abdi Wally is going to be the Labor candidate, but I'm not sure it has been nailed down. Joe, thank you. Luke is in Bridgewater. Luke, what would you like to say? Yeah, good morning. I'm a reform voter and earlier on in your program, you said that you haven't had the opportunity to speak to a reform voter? Well, I mean, not so far today, so thank you for coming on. What do you think about the current travails? Well, I'll be brutally honest. It's like I said, you're a researcher on the phone. Nigel has had a difficult summer and the party do need to reset through all the conferences and whatever. I completely agree that his bio-election stunt was a bad idea. Why? I just think it was a bit of a waste of taxpayers money to be perfectly honest with you. Why don't you think he did it? Well, I believe he did it to give the people of Plac d'Ina Trois.

44:36That they had that two years ago. Yes, they had that two years ago and they voted and they voted for Nigel. So why did they need to do it again? Well, because other constant attacks that Nigel's had through the media and through the establishment. Well, before we get into the constant attacks, because I think what you're describing is things that actually happened that other people are pointing out. What do you mean when you use the word establishment? Well, the labour and Tories and the level Democrats mean everyone. What about the Tories that joined the reform? Yeah, the every PNQ's, every opportunity, Kirsta Amahad, whether he was there or not, all he ever seemed to do was attack Nigel for Raj. I mean, I'm going to be polite, but he didn't. He spent all of his time attacking Kemy Badenot and she spent all of his time attacking him. So in that battle there, which one is the establishment?

45:39Well, the both the establishment, they're obviously in the middle of it. They're attacking each other. They're attacking each other, but they don't want each other in power either. Well, yeah, I get that. There was no parliament over the course of the summer. I was there. So when you said the entire summer getting attacked by the establishment, you obviously didn't mean what was happening in parliament. No, like before during the PNQ's before they broke up for summer. So how was he attacked over the summer? Well, he wasn't attacked over the summer. He just said he was. Well, you just, yeah, you just, well, you just, yeah, okay, that's fair enough. Yeah, I did say that. I know where it was wrong. You're right. He wasn't attacked over the summer. But that was your reason for him calling the biolection. It's, well, the attacks he had since the reform party has gained as much traction as it has. So let's run through those. Well, you can't deny that they've been polling it. What? No, no, the attacks. The attack was, did it?

46:39Or why they're making such a big deal as a five million pound donation? Do you remember? Do you remember carestormers? He received a donation before he was elected as an MP. But you have to declare anything that you receive in the 12 months prior to becoming an MP. Right, but that's not, that's actually not by law though, is it? Well, I mean, it is the subject of the investigation that he went to the biolection in Clackton to sort of curtail. Or respond to. So he obviously thinks it's very important. But it's not a legal investigation that he's undergo in, is it? Well, no, but it wasn't a legal investigation when Boris Johnson was found to have breached parliamentary rules. And he left parliament entirely as a consequence of that. But why, I mean, when you say you sort of think it's been inflated, were you very cross when everybody was going on about carestormers spectacles? I'll be honest. I was. Yeah, I thought, well, why is everyone making such a big deal out of it? Yeah, because it was just spectacles. Yeah. Yeah. As opposed to 5 million pounds, secretly donated by a foreign based billionaire.

47:40For his security, which he has changed that story now. Well, it was a reward for Brexit. Oh, hang on, I think you might have changed that story as well. It's for whatever he wants it to be. And he can spend it on high performance motor cars, should he so desire. So there's been three different answers to that question. Which one do you believe? I hate you, you taking that completely out of context. He said he could spend it on high performance motor cars if he wanted to, because it was a good issue for him to spend that as well. So it wasn't for security. It was at which he will use for security. But it was a reward for Brexit. Well, no, he'd ever said that, did he? Yeah, he did. Well, can I just say I've been listening to you all morning this morning. Let's not talk about me because I do that all the time. Let's carry on talking about you. Did you not realise he'd said it was a reward for Brexit? Yes, I did, yes. But you just said he never said that. So just run me through what it is you like about the guy before I go to the news.

48:44Well, I think we just need a complete change. We've had two party politics for too many years. And it's about time someone else had to go. Okay. Well, Mr. Blobby, or the bloke that took five million pounds in secret and told so many different stories about it that his supporter can't even remember which one he thought was true two minutes ago. Let's give him a go. Well, everyone was thinking for Cain Benface not so long ago. I'm pretty sure you was even advocating for enduring the clutch and clutch. No, so I'm prevented from doing so by dint of the rules that govern all broadcasters. So that's something else you never heard happen. I did. I'm obviously not going to win you over, are you? I mean, you've spent all morning calling me over. Tell me something true. Well, I've spent most of the morning calling me a racist.

49:44I never said you're a racist. I've never said you before. You said the majority of reform voters must be racist. Or comfortable with racism. Well, I'm neither. Okay, so when the Robert Jennerick said that he hated the fact that in Birmingham he didn't see a white face. I disagreed with him. And when Sarah Poachin said she hates it, it drives her mad when she's watching television and she sees so many brown and black faces. Yeah, I completely disagreed with it. So you were very uncomfortable with that. Yeah, I was, yeah. But you still support them. Yeah, because. So you're comfortable with racism? No, I'm not comfortable with racism. But you still support them. I support the party. So you're comfortable with racists? No. But you still support the party. Well, yeah, people doing the racism are in the party. The thing is, you're taking it completely out of context. You keep saying that. And I've got a horrible feeling. You're not entirely sure what it means. Well, I do know exactly what it means. Well, it means that you're blowing things out from Porsche.

50:45And you're using it to see your argument. It doesn't mean that. You're telling me that you're cross about being described as comfortable with racism. I'm describing all the racism. You're telling me you still support them. I'm suggesting that means you're comfortable with it. Well, no, I'm not. 110% inco, okay, but you're not uncomfortable enough to support some party that's not obviously full of racism. Well, no, because we're 14 years of the conservatives and look at the state of the country that they left. Labour, I've been in power. You mean people like Robert Jenry, Suella Bravimer and Danny Krueger, Andrew Rosendale. But they were in the government you're critiquing. Yes, and they stood down because they didn't agree with the way that the country is being governed. No, no, they were governing it, mate. They only stood down after they lost the election. But no, they stood down because that they knew that was why they lost the election. It was because they did such a terrible job. Right. And now you're going to vote for them again. Well, no, I'm going to vote for them again.

51:45Yes, because they are now in the reform party that you're still supporting. Under a different leadership, we've completely different values. They're the same people. Yeah, that they've got different values. Well, what are the different values that they have? Well, I can't tell you that for a fact. Ah, just a theory. I don't know, I'm sorry. All right, hand on heart. What do you really like about them? I just think that the country needs change. Okay. I just think that the country needs change. It's been two party politics are far too long. Yeah, okay. Why not the Greens? Why not the Liberal Democrats? Because I'm, because I don't align with that, with their views. Well, you can't tell me what they're doing. Well, you can't tell me what the things that you do align with are. When I ask you, you just say, I don't know. I haven't got anything. But I just want change. Well, I don't like change. I do want change. I don't agree with you. The good thing I know for you for certain is that you're definitely very uncomfortable with all the racism being done in the party that you support.

52:49Because you want to change. So what are the views that you align with, do you think, Luke? Well, I believe that illegal immigration needs to be stopped into this country. Everybody agrees with that these days. But does that make someone racist? I didn't say it did. I'm asking what aligns with your views that reform offer that nobody else offers? Well, I like their policies on the economy, for example. Go on. Well, they wanted to raise attacks threshold at 20%. And how is that going to impact you? Well, it would impact my local community because there's lots of people unemployed or local people who are not in the same position as the local community. Local businesses would be able to employ more people. Okay. Are you sure? Yeah. That'll do. That would be a nice change, wouldn't it? Well, yeah, definitely. Okay. Do you think there are any circumstances in which you'd think maybe this is not a party that is going to be good for the United Kingdom?

53:49Well, maybe these people who, as you pointed out yourself, many of whom, spent 14 years mis-governing the country and turning it into the mess that you think it is today, I'd probably agree with you on bits of that. Do you think there's anything that would make you think hang on it, I think I might have been sold a pup here? No, not really, to be honest. No, not really. There we go. We found something to agree on. I can't imagine any circumstances whatsoever in which you'd think that. Before you go, quick question. Do you like Donald Trump? No, I've not found a Donald Trump. Good man. It is nine minutes after 11. And I'm planning to talk to as many of the journalists who've been banned from the reform UK conference as I can before 12 o'clock today. That should kick in shortly after the half past 11 news. The number is already surprisingly high, unless, of course, you've factored in the thin skin and petulence of the people who claim to believe in free speech banning journalists from doing journalism at their own party conference,

54:51in which case it's not really surprising at all. But I want to talk about something completely different now. And I also want to, if I can, knit together two stories, the first of which confirms something that I, I mean, the phoning, I think, will be about one element of this. But the nuance is one of my favourite words, as you know. And I suggested to you some time ago, I've really failed on this. I've got a lot better lately. But the reason why my attempts to get to the bottom of the neat phenomenon were initially quite, I mean, we had good phonons. But no one was, do you remember? I would get really impatient with callers because they weren't answering the question that I couldn't answer. That's not good, is it? You've got to answer the question that I can't answer. It's never going to be a very good line to take. I mean, it's not quite as stupid as asking politicians questions to which you do know the answer, but you're fairly sure they're too busy to have checked recently, so you're going to be able to keep babbling them by asking them if they know how much a loaf of bread costs.

55:54But to ask somebody, to ask the question that you can't answer yourself and then get crossed with them for not being able to answer it, I don't think that's a very good look. And I did that for a while when it comes to neat. What is going on? What do they do all day? And then I don't remember what changed. We have us a slightly recalibrated. And we began to get answers. And I think the big change was the idea that there is going to be one big answer to this question. You've got a million young people, not in education, employment or training. Then I said at the time, you could have a million different answers to the question of why. But my one theory that I stuck to throughout was that a significant swath of them would not be signing on. And they would be, I mean, potentially middle class or socioeconomically more comfortable than others, because they would be essentially living at home and continuing to live the life they led when they were in full-time education,

56:54at which point they weren't signing on. The people still say signing on? Claiming an unemployment benefit. Claiming any form of unemployment benefit. And it turns out, according to the Institute for Physical Studies, that I was right, about 300,000 not seeking state support, either financially or to find work. So they're not claiming any form of benefit whatsoever. But they are living at home and they are not in education, employment or training. That's just a heads up. Oh, John Redwood with the Normans, by the way, sorry, I forgot. John Redwood this morning reminding us as we all celebrate the arrival of the biotapistry. On our shores, John Redwood reminding us to think of all the English men and women who were put into sultum as a consequence of the Norman conquest. I wish I was making that up, but I'm not. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The worst thing that could ever have happened to these people was Brexit. Otherwise, they could have spent their entire life being doubty little rebels on the fringes of politics, shouting wonderful things about the Maastricht Treaty and the Second World War.

57:59But then they won. All their dreams came true and they brought us this, which is why I would loop the last caller at the end of the last hour is quite a sympathetic figure. Because he's right in a way. We had 14 years under which everything went badly. But the main reason for that, as Andy Burnham pointed out in the House of Commons on Monday, was Brexit on Tuesday, even, was Brexit. And who was the man most obviously and readily associated with Brexit? The man that Luke thinks would represent an anti-establishment change and an opportunity to repair all the damage caused by Brexit. That's why it's heartbreaking. However amusing you might find it, it's heartbreaking. But people, voters in this country have been turned into that sort of pushed into or tempted into that sort of position by populism, racism and lies. Because even if you are uncomfortable or unhappy with the racism, you're not unhappy enough to look elsewhere. So that's the 300,000 needs. And I've read that story and I turned the page and I read another story which is the actual opposite in a way.

59:06The number of children living in homes where no one is working has climbed to a 12 year high. So middle-class parents are subsidising 300,000 hidden needs. It's about adults living in homes where children aren't working. Not technically children, as in their age range, but their children. And adults living in homes where their children aren't working. And I've done that a lot and I've got a better grasp of it and we'll do it again. But I want to do this one today. Because this is tough. I mean these numbers are ugly. But they're also dangerous because they could be molded into something that they don't know, not designed to deliver. For example, how many of the children living in homes where no one is working are unpaid carers? How many children are living with parents who can't work and therefore don't work and therefore need looking after by their own children?

1:00:07I don't know, but the figure now has reached a 12 year high. The highest since December 2014, so not the highest ever. 1.54 million people in workless households in the three months to June. And I just want to know, genuinely, what that's like. I don't want you to think less of me because I'm not here to say all of these adults, all of these parents are work shy or lazy or any of those things. But that will be part of it. There will be people listening to this who grow up in workless households whose parents had chosen to be that way. And I naively now would like to think, I'm sure that won't be the major constituent part of 1.54 million. I just want to know what it's like. Because of all the things that I struggle to imagine growing up in a house where nobody worked is actually one of the hardest.

1:01:09And I suspect the same is true for a massive majority of us. And yet, again, with things that we know nothing about, the temptation to be unkind is the hardest to resist. And yet, what should you feel about these children? Even if they are living in a household that is the sort of fevered, the result of the fevered imagination of Dick Little John or some other renta right wing commentator. Imagine that they did actually grow up in those sort of circumstances. Then you'd feel sorry for them, wouldn't you? I mean, what chance would you have had if you'd grown up in a house where nobody worked? So on the one hand, there are people listening to this who grew up in a house where nobody worked and were not part of the tabloid cliche who were looking after their mum or looking after them. But nobody worked. A child did not work. I beg your pardon, an adult did not work in that house.

1:02:1103456060973 is the number you need. Because I want to know where you get it from. That thing I got when I was about 16 and Mum and Dad arranged for me to go and work with a family friend all together now on a building site in South Yorkshire. The same summer I also started working as a waiter at a restaurant in Kittermenster and then when I left school, I went to work at River Island on Worcester High Street. It was something really nice about leaving the house where Mum and Dad left the house. Mum worked for much of my childhood. Mum worked on the perfume counter. You know, in Kittermenster she worked for a stay-lord and later for long-come and then I went to work with her in my school holidays. I worked for Davidoff Cool Water. Do you remember that Keith? And Joupe, which everyone always pronounced Yup or something like that. Joupe was lovely. Joupe is still quite nice actually as a fragrance, although I'm a bit too manly for it these days. I never didn't have that.

1:03:12I never actually thought about it before today. It was so baked into my childhood, that idea of work that I didn't think it was particularly special and I didn't think it was particularly credible and I didn't think it was particularly interesting. It's how we grew up. We grew up with parents who worked and therefore if we wanted a few quid in our pocket as soon as we reached a certain age, we worked ourselves. So with absolutely no judgement except yours, you can sit in judgement on your own parents. I am not going to, right, at least I'm going to try not to, with no judgement except your own. What was it like to grow up in a house where nobody worked, where no adult work? What is it like to be a child in a house where no adult works? Because with the needs there will be lots of different reasons why nobody worked. That's why I'm so interested in your answer to this question. I want to know what your families' reasons were.

1:04:13In some ways the phonons, when there's a version of the question, there is, and I mean this for you, not for me, but I'm the person that asks the question on the program, what would it be like to have led a completely different life from the one that I led? Do you see what I mean? If you're trying to engender empathy in people, if you're trying to make people understand that they're but for the grace of God go they. The most power thing you can do is just imagine or help people imagine what it would be like to not be you and not be you. I talk about this a bit in the context of adoption because I'm adopted and I have this weird interest in who an earth I would be if I wasn't me because I'd still be me. You understand what I mean. You think about the most formative experience of your life, education, childhood, parenting, whatever it may be. So who would you be now if you'd grown up in a house where nobody worked? I don't think you'd be the same person. I really don't think you would be the same person but you would still be you.

1:05:20So if you grew up in a house where nobody worked, can you help the rest of us appreciate what that was like and whatever the reason was, whatever the reason was, I want to hear it. I want to hear about your experience of being the child in that household. 03456060973 is the number you need. Hit the numbers now you will get through. It is 1120. And the point I need to make really clearly is that this is not a poor me, poor me, poor me. Section of the program it may well be that your experience was harrowing and horrible but I'm supremely confident that many of those 1.5 million children in workless households are in happy and loving households. I'm just not, I just don't know what else they would be like because that is so opposite to the household in which I grew up. 23 after 11 is the time.

1:06:21Margie on the world I'll be with you. I'm an only Jo's in Harrow Joe. What made you pick up the phone? So for me, I grew up in a household where both parents didn't work after coming to the UK. What that has resulted in is the their six children being very conscious of the fact that we were supported whilst growing up. We had a very basic life but yet now it's our turn to give back three of us are business owners, two of us are teachers within schools and one is a banker. It was going so well. I think I know what got you. I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm joking. Let's you, we feel the same about her. See teachers in a banker. Go on. And then what that has done is it's allowed children that are conscious that we are parents were supported so now it's our time to give back and that's what each of us are doing.

1:07:23Whether that's by employing people, three of us employ an excess of 100 people. The two teachers are exceptional teachers. I am so proud. I will leave the right last. That's not fair. I was only Joshi. I know. But ultimately life was basic life was basic. My parents came here with not being able to speak the language. They tried to pick up jobs. The most basic jobs, whether that's cleaning, gardening, however, what they realized was that they had six young children that they also have to pay attention to. So growing up in a household where both parents didn't work, we were blessed with warm meals when we got home. We were blessed with bedtime on time because obviously that wasn't coming home late. And we had exceptionally attentive parents. And that wasn't by choice. Both parents are extremely proud. They had professions back home. But here they just couldn't connect with a profession. They tried to make it work. But with six children being at different stages of schooling, they couldn't pick up a job.

1:08:34Family fled another country, rather than. Yeah, just just to clarify a couple of things out of my own curiosity. It was it was it was a it was a refugee scenario as opposed to let's let's upsticks and try somewhere else for a change scenario. Yeah, they go. Yeah, it's unfortunate, but two generations on it's still happening to families. And I see those families that are where we were, let's say, two generation at 20 years back. And although the welcome is a lot less warm now, I mean, I'm sure that you had your struggles and that your parents had negative experiences. But for reasons that we were talking about a lot in the last hour, the welcome for families like yours is a lot less warm than it was when your mom and dad arrived. And of course what you remind a lot of people of myself included is that these stories are not self contained. The story of the family with the six children and the two parents who can't speak English and can't get work is not a story that ends there. It carries on into into you and your siblings and then into your children and their children and then into.

1:09:39The reason why this country is this country all of the different avenues that were opened up as a consequence of that single beginning. How did they convey to you? I mean, the fact that they were professionals in in their country of origin is clearly pertinent here. It would be a very different experience to grow up in a household where nobody really wanted to work. And that's why we're having this phone. But how did they convey to you that that what was what was a conveyor belt in my life. So mom and dad had been on it. So I would hop onto it as well. How did they convey to you the necessity and the importance of going to work? So that is a very good point. So you always think yourself, how did we come with this work ethic that's evident to everyone who knows us seeing parents that didn't work? I think it's them. They're spoken. They spoke to us a lot. They are in that position. And because of their inability to do X Y and as a result of their sacrifice, they gave their all, which was making sure that cut meals, I and shirts and my children don't get it, but polish shoes on a Monday morning.

1:10:52But that's because they were very attentive to us and they said to us, look, this is a sacrifice we've made. So you must not be in this position there in that position, big out of fleeing war, but we must come out. And I think what we learnt from them was that it wasn't a place of enjoyment. I think we went without life was very basic as well. Having lived life where we did have the luxuries back home and then stepping to a world where everything had to be basic. We preferred what we had and hence we're working so hard to go back to what we enjoy, which is working hard for a better life. But while growing up with two parents who weren't working, life was very basic. And I'm going to remind to those people that think that if you're not working, it's pleasurable. It's not because you cannot afford a lot of what you want to afford for your children.

1:11:54Because now having children I can see that look, this is what you can afford if you were working if you had the means. And without going all hallmark hard about it, you also, and you've conveyed this quite beautifully, you also got things of great value from your mum and dad that would have been much harder to get if they'd been working 12 hours a day each. That's us right now. That's my husband and I. Absolutely, that's my husband and I. We were out to eight o'clock back at seven p.m. And we know, yeah, we know what we're not giving our children. We were both blessed with it, which was attentiveness. And I think there was a discussion yesterday on this where loneliness and all the other situations that happened because I certainly didn't experience loneliness because my parents' eyes were always on us. My husband and I the second we get home, I like to think a colleague of yours or maybe yourself. You mentioned there are so many things that we need to take and get over and done with.

1:12:56We can't stay and connect it with our children. It was a caller actually. It was a caller to this home. Well, I mean, I'm sure other presenters have done the same subject as well. So maybe it was them, but it was about just not not having the time. It was a young mum, wasn't it describing how she gets home and she hasn't got time to look after her children in the way that she would want to. Because she's got all the other things. What an incredible call. Sometimes it's the last call of an hour, which justifies the entire hour. Sometimes it's the first call of an hour that justifies the entire hour. And sometimes it comes in between, but if we don't have time to come back to this subject, because I'm about to catch up with all the journalists that have been banned from the Reform UK conference and to be fair, it could take us up to one o'clock the way that that tally is rising with every passing minute. And I'll still be glad we have that conversation because you proved every point I wanted to prove the statistic is big 1.54 million children in workless households. But the idea that you can extrapolate from that, any generalized truth about all of those children is as Joe has just beautifully demonstrated.

1:13:58Ridiculous. And we've now got three business owners employing in excess of 100 people, two teachers and no family's perfect. One banker is Dominic Alice with the headlines. It's 33 minutes after 11. Let me refresh your memory of an exchange between Nigel Farage who appears to have come out of hiding in Birmingham this week and the Democrat politician Jamie Raskin in Congress in September of last year. You've banned journalists from your political events that you disagree with haven't you? No, in fact, I'm the only really your convention. You didn't ban journalists and revoke their credentials. You know, I take the average press conference. I take 25 questions. No, that wasn't my question, Mr. Frash. We're politicians. So we see what you're doing. I'm asking you a direct question. Thank you. I'm asking you a direct question. I hope you can answer it. Why do you ban journalists who oppose your views from coming to your events? Why did you tell your party that why did you tell the local government not to do interviews with your local newspaper?

1:14:59I am the most open person to any judge. Undoubtedly. The handsome is man in the world. But I'm asking you a different question. That's not my question. My question for you is, and it's legit, why do you ban journalists that you disagree with from your political events like from your convention? I don't. You say you've never done that? I can't think if I go back the last 25 years. I can't think of any of anybody. But I mean, maybe somebody else did. But look, I see you. I see you. I'm a big boy. A big boy did it and ran away. I've got four people to talk to here. So you'll forgive me for talking a little bit less than I usually do. Michael Crick, political journalist. I'm going to use the word veteran. I never know how that lands with people. But you must have attended more party conferences than any party leader, Michael, by didn't have going to several every year. And also the author of the disruptive life of Nigel Farage. Well, you just heard him say, though, he's never banned anyone from one of his conferences. Have you ever been banned from a reform UK conference, Michael Crick? Not before. No. I was actually frog marched out of a UK conference in the days when Farage was leader.

1:16:03And I pretty nasty way, actually, because I'd been trying to talk to Neil Hamilton, who'd fallen out with Farage. Well, that was all sort of repaired. And I was allowed back in. But, you know, and Labour tried to ban a few people from their conference last year. You'll remember. I think in the end, they backed down and left most of them in. So why are you not going to this one? Well, because I can't go in. I haven't got a press pass. But why have you done? Well, I've been quite critical of Farage in recent weeks and his bad temper over the whole Harbonne donation. And of course, I was involved very many years ago on Channel 4 News. And then in my book, in exposing all the stuff about him being anti-Semitic and racist when he was a school buyer, Dullich College. And he didn't like that. And that dragged on for several weeks, you'll recall, around about the turn of the year. And, you know, I regularly ask questions about what he and his party are up to. On the other hand, I say some quite positive things about them from time to time.

1:17:04You do, like, probably think I'm a bit too positive. Well, I couldn't possibly comment. I could hear to talk about you, not me. But you also, of course, famously filmed or unwittingly, 30thly Anderson managed to get himself on tape, setting up a friend to pretend to be a random voter when you were out on the stump with him. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. That was way back in the 2019 election. Extraordinary. Made it, made it, Lee Anderson look a right chump. He was a conservative in those days, of course. Of course he was. And maybe, maybe he's, I mean, he's the chairman of reform. Maybe he's behind this. Maybe he's getting his own back. I mean, it's not the end of the world for me. I just won't go and do something else instead. But it is. I mean, just beyond the mischief, of course, that there he is in Congress stating that this, this kind of thing never happens. And here it is happening as far as we were on six different occasions. Is he getting more thin skinned? Does these stories grow undoubtedly? And I think, you know, since the Harbourn story, I mean, you know,

1:18:04the affable farage has become the laughable farage with the, with the, the claxon by election and so on. He doesn't like people taking the Mickey out of him. He doesn't like people asking questions about his finances. And I think he's become much more Trumpian in recent years, much more obsessed by making money, which is getting him into trouble. And he's under attack now. I mean, Labour and the Conservatives are both rejuvenated under new leaders. And, and he's also faces a serious threat from Rupert Low and his new party, Restore, and of course he fell out with low in a big way. So it's his own fault, really, that Low has gone off and done this. So the pressure on him right now is huge. And of course the pressure is all the greater because it's a dictatorship. If he had to, if he delegated a little bit more, he wouldn't be under so much pressure. But that's how he chooses to do it. See, those are precisely the sort of comments that have rendered you persona non grata. Michael Crick, thank you. That book, The Disruptive Life of Nigel Farage, is required reading Peter Gagan, editor of the investigative newsletter,

1:19:06Democracy for Sale. I think I saw that you and Crick have been banned from this conference because you're not high status enough. That seems fair. I think we're describing as a minor, minor characters or something similar, a kind of Dominic Cummings' S language. I think they describe Michael as an academic because he's got a university position. And I am a blogger apparently. So that means that I don't qualify either. I'm sure it's got nothing to do with the numerous stories of democracy for sailors has, has ran about reform, it's funding in various aspects of the parity. Anybody else too? I'm sure that's just a coincidence. And also, you know, just a blogger who managed to win the private I investigative journalist of the year award just a few short weeks ago. So, you know, I did these things matter. What stories do you think might have caused the most upset? Well, I was really struck and I can't say cause and effect. You never can with these things. But it's five o'clock on Wednesday. I published a story about Isabel Augshot. Isabel Augshot is Richard Tyson's partner and very much one of the most booster-ish reform voices you'll find.

1:20:10And actually in recent months, she's been talking a lot about how this five million pounds from Christopher Harbour, which you've talked about a lot, James. And we've written about a lot of democracy for that house. Nothing to see here. It's nothing to see who carries her and I should get this money. How he buys a house is none of nobody's business as what she said. Well, we were able to reveal that before the 2024 general election, she'd privately told a senior reform figure that she taught that Christopher Harbour at the time was untrustworthy and she concerns about his money. So we published that story at five o'clock. And at five thirty five precisely, an email and a land of my inbox from the reform reforms accreditation set team saying, really sorry about this. There's almost like a kind of a job application you'd failed. Thank you so much for applying, but this time unfortunately you haven't been selected. So they selected 950 journalists apparently, but for some reason I think myself and Michael somehow didn't qualify in the top 950 people to be covering the reform conference. Now Michael made the point that it's not going to have any impact upon any work that you do, unless they're worried about you actually talking to the party rank and file. What exactly is it that they would be trying to prevent by keeping your fizzle out of the room?

1:21:13I think it's a kind of, it's my read on this is that it's an attempt to just, it's an attempt to kind of stop scrutiny. It's attempt to not engage people who are trying to scrutinize you. And it's not just, you know, Michael mentioned that other parties have banned people from their party conferences before. It's also not just that Gabriel Pogrand has done some great work with the Sunday Times digging into friarge's money. He has spoken publicly about when he wrote about Richard Tyson's tax affairs, how reform refused, Richard Tyson, twice the Tyson's lawyer refused to acknowledge his requests for comment. That's a really serious thing that makes it really hard to report because legally you have to know that the person you're up making these accusations about has heard them. So that's a really big thing. I've also spoken to other journalists who are actually attending the conference who told me that they won't, they can't get, they get Stonewall to only ask for details about press party conference briefings, all that sort of stuff. It isn't just this. This I think is a wider, it looks like it's a wider kind of strategy we're seeing here from the forum. And Michael Griggs already used the word Trumpian. It's hard to resist in this context.

1:22:14Sam Bright, investigative journalist, author and the deputy, UK deputy editor of the Smog. I mean, this is getting ridiculous. Surely you haven't been banned as well, Sam. I'm afraid I have genes, although I'm a very good company. Well, I'm beginning to feel left out. I didn't apply, but I still want to be banned. It would be ironic if they let you injure him. And that would be a term for the book. Do you know why? What have you done to upset them? It's similar to, Pisa, I think the timing of all this was quite ironic. We did a piece where we ran through, sifted through the party's agenda and the speakers who have been let in and will be turning up over the next few days. We revealed the fact that you've got major corporations actually there. You've got the likes of Google, you've got the likes of Meta TikTok. But alongside them, you've got fossil fuel lobbyists. And you've got anti-abortion groups. And a few hours after we went to reform for comment, as all good professional journalists do,

1:23:14we were informed, likewise, that we would not be accredited. Just as a side point, James, it's very ironic that when for us both to Congress last year, that appearance was facilitated by an anti-abortion group. And they seem to not be keen on those reporting the fact that the ties to similar groups are multiplying. To be fair, other parties would have some of those interests represented, wouldn't they? I mean, you can't really have a, I guess the Greens don't have a very high representation of fossil fuel companies, but it's not unique to reform. No, absolutely not, although as we've pointed out extensively for us, I mean, let's just take ties to this recent remarks about sparkling wine from the English countryside now being the title of choice. Thanks to climate change, you know, this all feeds into this idea that reforms a climate denial party that has itself actually taken a lot of money from fossil fuel interests.

1:24:15And of course, a recent interview with Bloomberg where he insisted that there were loads of scientists to agree with his skepticism about my make climate change. He just couldn't think of any at that moment. Yeah, and he tried to walk out of that interview, I think, actually, didn't he, James? Well, that's the alternative. If you can't ban the journalist, you can walk out of the interviews, I suppose. Exactly. Thank you, Wil Haywood. Multi-awardwarding, well, actually, to be fair, I think all of my guests today are multi-award winners. A journalist author of the Wil Haywood newsletter, and the Guardian's Wales columnist, we're up to three. Surely it's not four, Wil. I'm afraid so you're going to have to add me to the list. What happened? Do you know what have you done to upset them? In their journalism. In their defence, I have repeatedly reported on the things they've said and done. I actually, I've been banned from some previous ones, but in 2024, I was allowed to actually interview Farage in the party's Wales conference in Newport. Just before I began that interview, it was made clear by a member of Farage is in a circle that he said,

1:25:15we haven't worked together before and whether we work together again will depend on what happens now. So it was very clear that future access would be predicated on how I conducted that interview and it seemed I failed the test. That was the last time you were allowed into the Royal Presence. After that, I was persona non-grata. Although there has been some interactions indirectly, I leaked WhatsApp group from the internal comms team at reform. Actually, they're head of comms called me. It's, I can't say this on the radio, but I see you next Tuesday. Which, which, I don't know if I can say that. You just did. We're okay, I think. Okay. And I also, there was a recent incident inside the Senate, inside the Welsh Parliament canteen, where seemingly some reform staffers took a picture of me speaking to some other politicians, as I do, every day as part of my job, and posted it on their social media as evidence of my complicity against reform.

1:26:16So it's been an interesting roller coaster. As you said at the beginning, albeit amusingly, that what you've done is reports on things that they have said and done, and of course your patch goes beyond reform and covers the whole of Wales. A lot of love for you coming in on my inbox, actually. Will, I have to tell you. He's fantastic, great Welsh journalist. We should hear more from him. I love Will. He's brilliant, says Allid. I should clarify, I have a very big family. Go, go, go, go. Yes, well, probably an Allid in it as well. Not to stereotype. Michael, we spend the first hour of the programme, wondering whether the Wales were beginning to rattle. I don't think anyone's going to claim that they're coming off. I've been, I sense you think they are. Well, they're under a lot more pressure. They're not doing as well as they were. They're still in the 20s, the early 20s and the polls, which is way above the, what, 14%, I think they got at the general election. So it's a huge improvement. There's still ahead of the Conservatives in nearly every poll, apart from one yesterday. But there, as I said, they're under pressure from Labour and the Conservatives.

1:27:16It's a much more serious way now. And this, all these allegations, not just about Christopher Harbour, but a whole string of other allegations made by the Sunday Times and other papers about the finances of reform and whether they've been taking money from, asking whether they've been taking money from foreign sources, country to the law and all the stuff that going through this guy, posh George, George, Joshua, who is a former convicted fraudster in the United States, all that is adding to the, and diverting from what they want to do, which is put their ideas forward and go out and attract the public. And it's going to drag on for at least as long as this inquiry into Farage and the Harbour money and properly belong that, beyond that. Until now, they've had a pretty easy ride, I think, but it's changed. Just in conclusion, will you be reviewing or recalibrating your professional tactics as a consequence of this cruel snub? I will. And from now on, I'm going to be, you know, licking parts of the reform body that...

1:28:18No, no, no, no, no, no, I say... Just to make sure that I'm allowed into the conferences from now on. Well, yeah, again, tongues in cheeks, hopefully, that's where they'll stay. Peter Gagan, will you be reviewing your approach to the coverage of these sort of issues as a consequence of this cruel snub? What do you think, James? I think, I wrote a piece today saying, you know, they can banish their conference, but they can stop us reporting. And to be honest, we will continue reporting, we continue reporting money and influence on politics, wherever it leads us, and it's led us to reform recently, and we will keep going there as long as it leads us there. Democracy for Sailor Courses, the name of Peter's organisation, somewhat fortuitously named, given the context of this conversation. Sam Bright, that's it for you. I presume no more books, no more work at the smog you're going to have to hang up here. Notebook and do something else. Yeah, I'm afraid so. If only reform believed in freedom of speech as much as we all do. And, well, it's not just you from the Guardian, is it? I think that Anna has been told that she's persona non-grata as well. Yeah, several people from the Guardian.

1:29:20To be honest, I have never felt more endorsed in how I carry out my journalism than I had previously. Well, long may it continue. Thank you, Chaps. Very much indeed. Peter Gagan there, Michael Cricks, Sam Bright and Will Haywood. Just some of the journalists that have been banned from the party conference of the self-styled party of free speech reform UK 1149 is the time. Could have carried on for another hour, actually, with this, but we got Mystery Hour on the horizon. It's 1152. You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC. All of those journalists that we just spoke to on the naughty step as far as reform UK, Arkansas, but they are far from the only ones. So that number set to rise, I suspect, in the course of today. It's no negative reflection on the people that are permitted to go on the journalists that are there. It's just that a different, a particularly investigative journalist. That's what all four of those characters had in common. Investigative journalists is digging into things that politicians don't want to come to light,

1:30:22are not the same as journalists who simply report on what politicians are doing in the light. And I think that's a helpful distinction to make. I promise you that I'd explain the origins of the word tanky. And the reason for it is twofold. Number one, I only relatively recently got my head around it myself. And the other is that Diane Abbott today is receiving an entirely disproportionate and yet justified amount of criticism for essentially putting NATO on the hook for the ongoing horror show in Ukraine. And it's a well-established position of the British left. And it is called being a tanky. And where that comes from, I think. And you're going to correct me if I'm wrong. Is the 1950s, particularly 1956, when the Soviet sent tanks into crush revolutions in Czechoslovakia and in the Hungary, wouldn't it? So you've got the Prague Spring and the Hungarian Revolution. And because there were elements on the British left that were sympathetic to communism.

1:31:24And this was the most irresistible or undeniable evidence of the Soviet authoritarianism and aggression. They ended up boxing themselves into a corner where they either had to sort of defend the use of tanks to attack peaceful protests, thinking of Tiananmen Square actually more recently. Or they would have to somehow blame the protesters for provoking the response. So it is generally a description used to describe people who ended up defending leaders like Joseph Stalin or Mao Cidong. And opposing NATO and other Western nations regardless of the human rights abuses they were doing. So think of it in economic terms. Here is capitalism. Capitalism is your enemy. Here is a foreign state that claims to us shoe capitalism, Soviet Union communist China. Therefore we support them because they are the enemy of the neoliberal status quo. The problem with that is that Vladimir Putin's Russia is about as left wing as Genghis Khan.

1:32:29It is a kleptocracy run entirely for the enrichment of him and his closest cronies. And for Diane Abbott not to fully understand that is a professional delinquency. But of course I will leave you to wonder why some certain type of media outlet is focused incredibly on her. And even more on her than they were when one of Nigel Farage's closest confidence was sent to jail for years for accepting bribes from a Kremlin stooge. I just leave you to speculate about what it might be about a backbencher with no prospect of power or high office any time ever and whose membership of the Labour Party is, frankly hanging on by a thread. Why on earth would people be pretending that she was or why on earth would people be attacking her with particular vitriol that you would never see for example directed at? A white backbencher like Jeremy Corbyn who holds quite similar views. I leave you to speculate on that. Well we return to the question of growing up in a house where no adult works and the impact it has on the rest of your life. Margie's on the world. Margie what would you like to say?

1:33:39In regards to that particular question. I grew up in a household where work was considered part of pride. My dad was military and my husband was saying his father was military so pride and hard work were instilled in us from an early age. We also instilled that same pride and hard work ethic into our kids. One of us went 16 years in the army which is enormous pride to us. Our daughter is a community worker she works one to one in the community as a camera. Again enormously proud of her. Our others on however did as well as tried very very hard all this adult life to work and provide for his family. Unfortunately from his mid teens he started developing health issues.

1:34:45I think this is going to be the case with a lot of these families isn't it? It's kind of missing from a lot of the coverage. There's a deliberately created impression that this is going to be all about either willful or chronic unemployment as opposed to health issues. These health issues now have reached a point where it's taken 20 years for them to give him a diagnosis of all the different issues that he's been having to cope with. His partner is the same similar situation. What impact do you think it's having on their children? On the eldest two I'm not sure it is in the sense that their older 16 and 13 the eldest ones being severely autistic. The baby though he's only three so we've yet to see what impact that might have on him and hoping the fact that although him and his partner don't work because of health issues.

1:35:50Seeing everybody else in the wider family who do work and work hard and instill pride in us. It's a tragedy to report it in these terms isn't it? Because the idea that you somehow lack pride as a consequence of being physically or mentally unable to work is absolutely heartbreaking. But you remind me of that old age. You can't see or rather you can't be what you can't see. If they have an example, if they have a guiding light or something to emulate and follow then they're going to be in a better place than perhaps the people who don't. I know that Graham from your neck of the woods was due to come on next to talk about his experience working in the DSS and how it's the extinction of hope that is often the case in families where there's multi-generational unemployment. And I think that's the moment regardless of the original cause of it. If you can't see an example to follow then you can't be what you can't see. It's coming out to 12 noon, a packed show today. But it's Thursday which means that it's mystery hour, a week of opportunity to achieve the sort of satisfaction that is ordinarily not available anywhere else on your radio.

1:37:03If you don't know what it is, you're about to find out if you do know what it is. Why not book your place early on the usual number? This is LVC from Global Leading Britain's Conversation, Mystery Hour with James O'Brien. Three minutes after 12 is the time. I've got a bit of a tale conversation we may try to return to it at some unspecified point in the future. Because now it is mystery hour. Your weekly opportunity to it, I've done all that, haven't I? What haven't I done? Oh there's prize. There's a magnificent prize. You can win it. Actually by being my favourite contribution of the week. The management's decision is final but that's all you have to do. Whether you're ringing with a question or an answer or a complaint. Not a complaint, that was a joke. Whether you're winning with a question or an answer, if it is my favourite of the day, my favourite of the week then it's all yours. You get a Mystery Hour board game, that's the game version one, or you get the Mystery Hour travel game, which is a completely different proposition and it comes in a tin.

1:38:05One is pocket sized, one is not. But one either box size or pocket size will be yours if you make my favourite contribution of the week. I'll tell you about the terms and conditions in a minute. In fact I'll tell you now. The terms and conditions for the competition are at lbc.co.uk and what's the other thing? Oh yeah, you can find out more about the game if you want to buy one as opposed to cross your fingers and hope that you make the most appreciated contribution of the week then you can go to mysteryhour.co.uk. So, phone lines are open. If you have a question that needs an answer call me now on 03456060973. If your brand is spanking new to this feature, maybe give yourself five minutes to just get a flavour of the kind of questions that get on the board. I'll tell you some are perhaps a little bit obvious and some wouldn't necessarily get put straight to the switchboard. But generally speaking it's a who, a why, a when, a where, a when's, a wither, the occasional where for, although I don't think anyone's ever rung in and said James, where for art that, where for, what it just means why doesn't it Keith?

1:39:15It's just a fancy way of saying, so where for, do we do do this and not so all of that they're all what are they called Keith interrogative pronouns. I think that's what it is. That's it really and the only real thing that you need to bear in the back of your mind is it must have an answer. So, don't ring in and ask about the meaning of life or something like that 42 everyone knows that it must be something that actually has an answer something that you feasibly plausibly believe that you actually have a prospect of getting an answer to your question in otherwise that somebody else listening to this so called program will be able to provide the answer that you so desperately crave. I mean we used to have rules don't really like motoring questions but frankly I'm getting old and find it increasingly hard to stick to my carefully cultivated principles on this particular issue. What was I thinking about the other day though so don't do motoring questions and I don't like London centric stuff but I'm fascinated by you loads absolutely fascinated by it as an emblem as an example of almost everything that's wrong with British media and elements of British politics.

1:40:28I may explore that another day but I generally don't like motoring questions and we don't like repetition but we've been doing this for so long now that avoiding repetition is frankly impossible. Imagine being a phone in host who only does the new topics every single topic we do three topics a day is something that we've never gone anywhere near or done anything like before we wouldn't last a week. We wouldn't last a week the trick is of course to return to familiar territory with fresh eyes and interesting interesting new insights. First time for everything let's get this up and running Harry is in Helm's Dale Harry question or answer. Hello James I got a question. Harry on. No he hasn't he's fallen I wouldn't fall in down a while. Yes hello. Go on what's your question what's your question. I'm currently hiking Van Denstjohn a growth so I've got 60 miles left. How much? You've kept me company so thank you so much I've listened to you every day.

1:41:28It's a pleasure thank you for keeping me company although I was unaware of it until this moment. What are you doing it for charity? Yes I'm doing it for outfirm as a research UK. How can people find out a little bit more about your particular quest? We've got to go find me page or just giving page or something like that. He's falling down a well we'll get him on with a better for telling to climb a tree Eleanor so there's plenty of trees up there where it depends where he is whether he's near land zendoljourna growths actually. Nigel is in Poulton Lafield. Filed filled filed question or answer Nigel. Hello James it's a question. What does filed mean? It's the area that's a blue and black pool. Blue and black pool yeah. I mean it's fire so that's where filed. Yeah okay because we've been playing you at football. Yeah I have seen filed which is the filed is a whole area between Fleetwood and Preston. There you go you live in London. What's your question? Question is how did they record 29th of February historically? If you go back if you look at some government websites they say that it can be recorded as either the 28th or the 1st of March on some official documents.

1:42:35What do you mean if it's your birthday or something like that? Yeah right okay yeah. And the reason I asked that is that we always celebrated my grandfather's birthday on the 29th of February because that's when my mother said he was born. How you got that wrong? Sorry I'm correcting you on your own family history but I think you must mean the 28th of February or the 1st of March. We celebrated it on the 1st of March and of course yeah we celebrated on the 29th. And it was after we died after my mother died that I found his birth certificate instead of 1st of March. And I thought was it really the 29th so did I record it differently? But what is really interesting so I was alive at the time. Yeah was he died on the 29th of February 1980. So at the front door. Yeah. So we think he was both born and died on the 29th of February. That's right 1904. I mean that must be close to unique, isn't it? Well it's pretty rare. What does he odds?

1:43:35I mean you'd have to know how many people there are in the world and then you'd have to divide things by four. Twice squared. Not my strong point maths Nigella can't lie. No it's a big deal. So obviously it's quite an interesting situation. So what's the question? Did they ever write 29th of February on birth certificate? Yeah or did they record them going back to the beginning of last century as a 1st of March? I like that. I mean it's quite an issue, isn't it? But I like it. Yeah. It could have been that he was just sort of a play in the wagon. He was a 1st of March but he thought 29th of February was my interesting. I mean he could have been on the card. Could have gone in. His mother could have gone into labor, you know, late on the 28th. Late on the 29th, and then didn't give birth until early on the 1st but they kind of decided to split the difference. So why wouldn't they put down the 20th? I mean in the days before computers it would make more sense to just jot down the 29th. In computers there might be a kind of millennium bug type scenario where it can't cope with the anomaly.

1:44:38Well it's probably, I mean as I genuinely say I've looked at some research. You can find some guidance that says on official documents such as driving license, so we were applauded as the 1st of March of the 28th of February to avoid complications if it's a reject. Oh really? Yeah. So it is a done well with someone on that, I won't think, as they've found some people listening to this who were born on the 29th of February and they'll be able to tell us straight from the horse's mouth as it will. Well what rules go on? Yeah well I would hope so, you know, but particularly going back 120 years, that's what I'm interested in. Oh I see whether or not you're granddad, so really you just want to know whether your granddad really was born on the 29th of February or not. Yeah. Well we're not going to be able to answer that, we might be able to say if he had been they definitely would have written it down because on his birth certificate it said the 1st of March. Oh, crikey, thank you Nigel, 034560973 is the number you need. Let's have another go with Harry in Helmstow, Harry, have you climbed a tree?

1:45:38Yeah, I've just climbed out the well. There we go. And you are raising money for Alzheimer's by hiking from land to John Agrotes, how long have you been hiking? I've been hiking for 46 days. 46 days, 60 miles to go, are you going to finish it tomorrow, do you think? Oh no, I think three days. Yeah, you should just get a flipping racon man, will you seriously? What are you doing crawling? Hopping? Oh there's lots of rocks James. Lots of rocks. And how can people offer some support for your journey and indeed for Alzheimer's UK as a success? Okay, yes. So I have a just giving page, which is Harry M. Dashler Jog. Oh nice, Harry M. Dashler Jog. Yes, but I also have an Instagram and I'm doing like daily videos. And that's Harry M. underscore Lajog. Lajog? It is, yeah. Why did you call it Lajog? Well, land then John Agrotes. Land then, oh, Lad Jog. Lajog. Lajog. Oh, land's end. Yeah, Lajog. I thought you were doing something a bit French there mate.

1:46:38I thought you were jogging it with a French flavour and therefore you'd called it Lajog. You see? Like, do land do pan doop up there anyway. Lajog, that's easy to remember. Land's end to John Agrotes, Ellie Jog. So Harry M. M. for mother. Yes. Dash, Lajog. I bet you're wishing you'd never rung in now aren't you? Anyway, what's the question? Okay, yeah. So I was wondering what the origins of public rights have waved for football? As in, why can we walk on some and not on others? Yeah, why can we just walk on some person's land and they can't stop you but not anywhere else? I like that. There's a story in the news today actually. I couldn't see a way into it. About a lot of previously sort of casually established rights of way being increasingly closed down by land owners. So what is enshrined in law and what is not? I do not know. There'll be presumably, there'll be kind of ancient traditions, some of which make it into ordnance survey maps.

1:47:38And so I don't know why I'm trying to answer this question, Harry. I mean, firstly, you've got a hike to go and with and I haven't got a clue about this. I had a posh friend who fell in love with it with a girl from a more normal background. You'll like this story, Harry. It'll keep you company for the next five miles. And he lived on a country estate and his old man had a bit of a problem with Ramblers who were there legally. But he didn't like having Ramblers on his land for the reasons that we're kind of both alluding to and that they had the rights to just sort of walk through what he considered to be his garden, but which they considered to be great British countryside. And he started having a go at some Ramblers that he'd encountered on his travels on his own land. And it quickly emerged that they were the parents of the lovely young woman with whom his son had recently fallen in love. It was a very romantic moment that came up in the wedding speeches, but they all get on famously now. Er, you're on.

1:48:38Why? Why are some rights away, some roots allowed, access and others are not? Thank you, Harry. John's in what? No, I will come to him after this. 60 minutes after 12 is the time. Mystery are as upon us. You are listening to James O'Brien on LBC and good luck to Harry. Has he put us in the finder? Is he going? Is he going? Is he going? Keith Land's enter John a Grote. So John a Grote is the Land's enter. It's Land's enter John a Grote. 60 miles left. If you see him, give him a wave. And maybe I don't know, a cup of soup or something. I know what sustains you on a hike like that. It's unlikely I am ever going to fight or some Kendall Mink cake. I don't know what he looks like. He's probably got a thing saying Le Jog on his back or something like that and a beard. Lewis is in Mason. Lewis, question or answer? Question. Are you currently embarked on a multi-hundred mile hike, Lewis? I wish. Why not? I'm a work. I'm a work. Oh no, what's the question? Yeah, I'm in the 60s. I sit down to my evening meal with my wife. And on the TV we have adults. We have an advert sorry for pension plans, funeral care, disability aids and wheels.

1:49:41I'm just wondering if a young couple would get the same adverts. Wheels. Wheels. Oh, wheels. Wheels. Sorry, last wheels and testament. Yeah, that sort of stuff. Yeah, disability aids, funeral care, pension. So we get all that old stuff. Do a young couple get the same adverts. Are you watching Normal Telly or are you streaming? It's normal telly. I TV. I TV. I TV something like that. BBC. I'm just moving into slightly delicate territory now. And I need you to tell me the truth, Lewis. Do you watch GB news? No. It's not. Never watched it. Never watched it. Well, and it's not. It's on the property. So you'd be watching. Like on the property. Yeah, the chase or something like that. Yeah, so all the choices on. I get them kind of adverts come through. Well, I mean, these I mean, daytime late daytime. It's an older audience. Everyone's getting the same adverts. It's dead. You beginning to take it a bit personally, aren't you?

1:50:42I can tell. I am in doing. You're thinking hang on a minute. Hang on a minute. I might have a few miles on the clock, but I'm good for a few more yet. Exactly that. Yeah. Well, don't worry. Yeah, surely a younger couple wouldn't be interested in them kind of. No, but they're less likely to be watching telly at that time. Well, no, they are for two reasons. The main one being that the youngsters don't watch normal telly Lewis. Yeah, you could be watching everything on their devices and streaming. So they're watching it when they want to watch it. So they'll be watching the eye player or even the ITV player. They won't be doing what you and me do, which is thinking inside. Oh, it's six o'clock. It must be time for Richard Osman's house at games. Or if I was with my mum, as I was yesterday, oh, it's five o'clock. We must put the chase on with Bradley. Yeah, as I said, normally during the chase, the kids don't do it. The kids aren't watching it on normal telly at that time. So all of the adverts are directed at the older consumer, but everybody is seeing the same adverts. Yeah, that's true.

1:51:43Otherwise, what are they going to do? You got to mean, yeah, it's just true. Yeah, no, I'll say your words for it. I was watching it in a hospital yesterday, a full of old people. And it was the same adverts that you described. No, I was visiting Keith. It wasn't the old people like me. So that's it. I mean, I was like, how would they do it? How would they know how old you are if you're watching the television? They'd know if you were watching it on your phone, but not if you're watching it on your television. No, that's what I wanted. That's what I wanted. That's what I wanted to say. You're safe. Ask me what my qualifications are. What are your qualifications? Spring chicken, mate, and I get the same adverts. There you go. There you go. Lovely stuff. And remember, as I bid farewell to Lewis, you can grab that phone line for yourself. 103456060973. Any questions? Or indeed answers to the two questions that are still on the board. John Zunmoreington. John, question or answer? Hi, James. Hi, John. I've got a question. It's about ingredients for casseroles. Oh, yeah. What do you want to know?

1:52:43Bay leaves. What are the points? I mean, you put a bay leaf in the beginning of a recipe or in a casserole. Then you add multitude of different ingredients. Does anybody say, hmm, this is missing a bay leaf? You know, they don't seem to make any difference. So my question is, why do we use them? Umami. I'll be pardon. Umami. Irano. No. Umami. Yeah. What's that? It's the other thing. Is it some ethereal? No, it's the other thing. It's like we know what sweet is and we know what sour is. We know what salty is. What's the other one, Keith? Sweet sour sour. Yeah, yeah. What's the fourth one? So we know there's four. Sweet sour salt. Yeah, what's the other one?

1:53:44Um, oh, come on. Sweet sour salt. Sweet sour salt. What's the other one? Okay, you should see the blank faces looking back at me, John. I don't know what it's like where you are, but this is like being in an aquarium. Does that, does that count as umami? It bay leaves? Yes. And how would you describe the taste? Well, I just did. No, that's just a word. Umami. It's like it's a savoury, a subtle savoury, like almost like a kind of, I mean, I don't know if you can describe umami. I think that's the kind of point, but it is, your tongue is picking up on that. It's a meaty flavour. It's like a meat, ummm. What's the most umami thing you can think of? It might be a twiglet, for example. Umami. Umami. So it's like, I think a Japanese bloke discovered it about a hundred years ago. And we got the four, even though you were making only remember three of them.

1:54:48Sweet salt, someone would have sent me acid. Is it acid? It's not acid, it's savoury. Sweet salt, bitter. Anyway, marmite. So if you put like a tiny, tiny bit of marmite in your casserole, you'd get a similar effect to a bay leaf. Are you saying it was bitter? It's bitter. Sweet sour, salt, bitter. I'm not convinced. What do you mean you're not convinced? It's not a question of being convinced. It's umami. It just is. It's just umami. If you can't taste the thing, it's a good one. Okay, you got it from seaweed. You found it in seaweed. And it turned out that the tongue responds in a specific way to sweet sour, salt and bitter. And it responded to this thing that he found in seaweed in a fifth way, in a different way. And that is called umami. And that is what a bay leaf delivers. Even though people had been putting bay leaves in stews for years before anyone knew what umami was or discovered it,

1:55:51the reason why they were doing it, it transpired, was because of umami. I'd like a second opinion. Yeah, fair enough, actually mate. I can't really argue with that as it goes. I'm not, I normally get a bit prickly with it. With all those ingredients um you know, they're, they're masked any subtle umami. I don't think they would. I think you underestimate how subtle umami can be. I mean, I'll tell you what, hand on heart, make a nice ragu from scratch. Maybe not a chili because a chili is probably going to, I mean my chili recipe includes both bay leaves and indeed dark chocolate, which is a bit of a, a bit of a speciality of mine. But you make a top ragu. I reckon I could tell the difference. Really with one bay leaf? Yeah. It's why you put anchovies in my pack. I put anchovies in my pasta sauce sometimes as well. Well I do too. Well that's umami. You know that's the salt. Now that's the salt.

1:56:51It's salt and umami. It's salt and umami. So if you made, let's do the experiment right. You make two bowls of ragu. One with a bay leaf and one without. Okay. And then you've got three separate experiments. Have you? So you've got two bowls with the bay leaf. One bowl with and one bowl without. And then two bowls without the bay leaf. So you've got three separate taste tests. So now you wash your mouth out in between each one. You go, you're up there the same. You're up there the same. They're the two that are different. And that is the umami one. I reckon I could do it. Well that remains to be seen. It does. So indeed does the answer to this question. That's all I've got. That's all I've got. I think the dark chocolate is a bit umami as well in the chili. But I'll leave you to experiment with that. What was the question again? Why do we put bay leaves in food? Why do we put bay leaves in food?

1:57:515, 6, 6, 0, 9, 7, 3. We've got a bay tree in our garden. So sometimes I put fresh ones in and I can never remember if you're putting a fresh one in you'd put in more than you would have dried one wouldn't you? Because the water would be yeah. Uh, Deborah's in Walthermore Forest. Deborah, question or answer? Hi James, I've got a question for you. Yes. Um, I'd very much like to know why snails and slugs are attracted to beer. I have a problem with them in my garden and can't get rid of them by um, who may need. This is on this is unbelievable. This is unbelievable. Oh, okay, go ahead. I know what the answer is to this. Are you sure? Umami. Oh no, please. I said umami. It is umami. It's just, this is the new Osmosis mate. This is the new Osmosis. It's umami. Someone's asked this before. And the yeasty smell back to Mami. You see umami, umami twiglets? The yeasty smell is, it reminds the slugs and the snails of like rotting,

1:58:57that rotting organic matter. Matter, yeah. So it's umami, it's like, are they called arthropods? It's like an umami for arthropods. Okay, I think I can accept that. That is why they like, that is actually why, I don't know if it's umami or not. But it is about the kind of yeasty recreation of rottings, because it's not rotting, it's beer. Yeah. But it smells to a snail. Yeah. It smells like something rotting. So they climb up the saucer, they fall in the beer and they die. And they get drunk. Yeah, but they die, don't they? Oh, yeah. They can't eat that. So that is, I think it's umami, but it's definitely rotting matter. Okay. So can I just mention really, really quickly about a year ago, I called him with, you know, when you open the show and you see who, what we're in, how? Yeah. Yeah. And I had a two question. My question was, who is health? Because when I'm going along the motorway and I see health on all these bridges,

1:59:57I went to shortage and I saw some fantastic. The American car wash, isn't it? The American car wash insured that she was, it was all over that. Yes, that's the one. But then I heard on the radio that he's passed away. He has indeed. It's a brilliant graffiti artist for people who've got no idea what we're talking about. And you didn't get on. You didn't get on with it. You didn't get on. And I'm really disappointed because I wanted to really know who it was. But then I heard it on the news like two days ago. Would you, um, he did the givepiece a chance thing on the shelf of biodontes. I turn it into a helps of chance taking. Um, would you like me and don't be shy. No one else is listening. Would you like me to fire somebody? No, definitely not. Are you sure? I mean, a game would be great. Well, that's not going to carry it away. I mean, I'm happy to fire someone. I can't give away a game with it. No, I wouldn't ever want that to happen. I can't fire anyone anyway. No, no. I accept Keith made me. All right, I'm going to take a round of applause for that because it's correct. Although the umami angle may, the umami angle may be fanciful, Deborah.

2:00:59Okay. And I hope your mum's been well. You're very kind. She is. I know it's actually now that you mentioned it, especially shout out to everyone on the cardiology ward. I'm at reddich hospital. She is in the ward, but she is, um, she has been extremely well looked after for which I am well for which we are all inexpressibly grateful. Thank you, Deborah. Josh is in Hackney. Josh, question or answer? I've got a question. Carry on. I would like to know why, um, Hinds, they've been tens. Don't stack. They do stack. Well, every brand of tin, so like soup or for different soup markets, they all kind of interlock. And Hinds, beans don't, they just sit on top of each other. They kind of fall. Really? Yeah, 100%. I've been, I've started to doubt myself. So I got, I got some out of the, uh, covered just a double check. They did, I think they did once. Well, so they don't stack with each other or with other brands. I, I, I, some, now some tin foods are cooked in the tin.

2:02:01Mmm. And others are not. Do you cook, mmm. I don't mean you cook them in the tin. Yeah, I mean the manufacturer cooks them in the tin. They're cooked in the tin and the tin is then sealed. So it could be that you are looking at different manufacturing processes here. But then you're going to point out that some own brand beans do stack, aren't you? I don't have any home brand foods. But I got to thank the Lord, man. There's some, there's some, let me money saving things. No one should be forced to. But every, every tin I have, they almost like interlock. They kind of sit into each other. And you could probably stack four, five, six and it would be safe. No, I know. I know what a stacking tin means. I don't need to die. Yeah, I know. I mean, but the Heinz beans do not stack. Yeah. Well, it's going to have something to do with the manufacturing process. But I don't, I know what it isn't. Okay. Oh, Marmy. Exactly. It's on the board. Why don't, why don't Heinz beans, tins, Heinz beans, Heinz means beans, Heinz, amelia cox has your headlines.

2:03:0733 minutes after 12, we didn't give John and Warrington the credit he deserves to coming back with Irano, did we? When I said, oh, Marmy and he went Irano, that's a Vic Reeves reference. I had it bubbling in the back of my mind, but I needed you to remind me. What was the other one we used to do? Is it Moon Jorro? I can't remember what the other one was. What was the other one they used to do, Vic and Bob, but they do Irano. And then there were two, anyway, that's why John and Warrington is a genius and is currently, despite stiff competition, probably, that's between him and Harry, I guess, in the lead for the game. There are currently two finalized free, which means you have got room for your own question. 034560973, or your answer to the question about the historical origins of rights of way. Why are you allowed to walk on some private land or walk through some private land and not allow to walk through other private land? And the 29th of February, does it appear that it used to appear, has it ever appeared on official documents

2:04:07or have you always been on a birth certificate in particular, particularly one from 1908. But, anyway, 1906 more likely if it's a leap here. Anyway, you are more likely to be encouraged to put down March 1st, if so, oh, farful, oh, farful, oh, farful. God, there's a lot of Vic and Bob fans out there. You'd hope so, I'm getting distracted by my messages. Keith, you're right, allow me just to turn that off. So we've got the 29th of February question and then we've got the Bay Leaf question, which inexplicably, John wasn't happy with my answer, even though Umami is almost certainly the answer. And, and then I answered the last one. So we're good to go. All right, 0345, 609, 7373, Jozin Ronford, Joe, question or answer? Question, we didn't ask what was on some time. You should tell him, me, you're not, you're not coming to this new, are you? No, I have been listening to you for years to walk along the whole thing. It's going to seem like I'm being rude now, but I'm not. The phone line's awful, so I'm going to try and fix the phone line

2:05:11and then come back to you. And, and unfortunately, if you'd wasted less time critiquing my waffle, we might have been able to get the question on the board quicker. Alternatively, if I'd spent less time waffling, then we would have already know what your question is before your phone line went south. David's in West R, yeah, in Liverpool. David, question or answer? It's a question, James. Very on, David. It's a cat question. Oh, yes. Okay. My cat is just sat on an oblong piece of paper. Oh, not on that. Not on that. Not on that. Not on a long piece of paper white. And every time we put down a sheet of paper, the cat sits on it. Now, I watched YouTube do the day and a lady made a square on the floor out of tape and the cat sat in the square. Why the cat's like sitting on square pieces of paper or squares made out of tape? We did, didn't we do this quite recently? Am I the only one paying a ta, obviously you weren't listening, so...

2:06:11No, it's not your fault. It's not either I've had a sort of weird dream about this or I'm getting days off who? Didn't we do this quite recently? It's a big weird James about me, James. No, I wouldn't actually. But maybe a cat. I think a cat. Well, did we do it and not get an answer? Or is anyone listening? I mean, not, I don't mean, no one cares or no one knows. All right, so why the cat sit on squares? White squares or squares made out of tape on the floor. So that would be the inside of that square would just be normal floor? Basically, yeah, and also the thing that it sat on as we speak was a drawing done by my grandchild yesterday on a large piece of paper. I'll belong and it sits on that. Every time you put a newspaper down, it sits on it. I thought the paper because the ladies proved that by just drawing that whole square. Just drawing that whole square. Take on the floor and then the cat comes in and sits on that. Sit on that. Yeah. Yeah, you're on. All right, I like it. Good man, we'll try and find out.

2:07:12I mean, if we haven't done it recently, then I've gone a bit bonkers or if we perhaps got the question on the board and didn't get an answer, that would explain why I can't remember it. I like that. David, take care. To our 37 is the time. Let's go back to Joe. Right, we're no more beating about the bush. Joe's in wrong for Joe. I'm not going to be around anybody. Get over there. Get over there, Joe. I've got a question up in meaning to ask you for years. Oh, no. Because he knows so much. So I was wondering. Yes. Can it be identified? Can you tell somebody has a good thing voice from their normal voice? What was that noise in the background then? My dog. Oh, okay. I think your dog was on. Your dog was going, yes. No, I want to. You get on my nose, James. Oh, right. So can you tell? Can you tell a good singing voice from a good talking voice in your dog when yes. No, yes. He did.

2:08:12Just answer the blue question. I can't answer it. You're cheeky man. I can't answer it. It's all about someone else might be able to. Can I ask you whether you, okay, hang on, say some more words to me. Hello, James. How are you? I don't think you have a very good singing voice. I used to. Problem is I'm hitting 17 hours. So I have gone. No, no, no. I think you probably. I can't. I don't know. All right. Do you think I've got a good singing voice? Nah. Okay. Right. I think you're a bathroom singer. I've, well, I've not even had really. Thank you. But I don't mean you'd be quite rude about me anyway. I don't think you would have said something nice about me, even if you thought it was true. James, I think you're brilliant. There we go. Give him a ball, go. Broad. Broad country here. Yes. The best broadcaster on LBC at the moment. Absolutely. Good man. Oh, can you tell from someone's speaking voice whether or not they have a good singing voice? I've no idea. 035, 6060, 907, 73.

2:09:12Joe, stay safe. Tristan's in Guildford. Tristan, question or answer? Hello, James. I have an answer to you. Carry on. So it's about the Bailey question and also a bit on the new mommy stuff as well. Yes. So the Bailey is actually just a culinary herb. It doesn't have that. It's not actually anything to do with the mommy. No, no, no, no, no. The mommy is in is is is part of the taste it creates like seaweed kelp is just kelp. But it's still got home army. I don't necessarily totally agree with that. You can't disagree with it. That's how it go mommy was discovered in California. discovered in kelp. Oh no no you're right about that but I wouldn't say a bay leaf it adoris from the flavour of the mami. Delivers, delivers the flavour, delivers some mild umami when in the brothel or a soup I think it does but we don't have to agree with that. A little a little bit of mild umami, yeah, mild umami. But yeah it's used as a culinary herb just like rosemary, thyme, you normally chuck it in a like a slow cook dish because it basically the flavour

2:10:17and the oils and the leaf anchor out once you cook it for a long time. Like if you've ever gotten a leaf from a tree outside you said you got on a home. Yeah. You just take a leaf and crush it and rub it in your hands it will release all those oils and that's basically what you're going to get in your food. Um like like uh like rose me or something like that it's delicious isn't it? Yeah of course. The what am I talking about? The umami bit. Yeah or rather the the question was contingent upon the idea that if you didn't use it you wouldn't be able to tell. I didn't uh as in you wouldn't be able to tell if you didn't use that. Yeah so David doesn't think I think it was David. Was it David or was it it was John in more instant? It doesn't think that there's any point to it because you can never really identify whether it's there or well how long is he cooking the food for that's what I don't know. Well I mean what would it deliver though? Because I need you to because I think there's only really one word that can describe what it delivers. Yeah so I mean so it creates that kind of like woody great stuff. Yeah umami not umami. No it's umami. Yeah it just gives that very

2:11:23much. Is it sweet? No it's not. Is it sour? Is it sour? No it's not sour. Is it salty? No it's not salty. Is it bitter? Uh yes. Not bitter. No it's not bitter. You know you did not get me there. It's not bitter. It's not salty. It's not sour. It's not sweet but it is a flavour. It's a flavour. Yeah it's only then a name for the fish flavour. If only there were a name for the fifth flavour that was only discovered in 1908 by a Japanese scientist. Exactly but you can get umami flavourings mostly well from things like aged foods like parmesan, bitnized, satin tomatoes, shiitake mushrooms and all those kind of bits and stuff. Yeah it dried mushrooms even more umami than uh it's a truffle. Is it truffle umami? It's truffle umami. Yeah truffle would be considered as type of umami yeah. I love it. Qualifications? So I've I've worked in food for a long time and I run a social media content business that creates recipe videos.

2:12:23Sensational. Well I mean we're going to agree to disagree about umami. Well I'll cook you a dinner sometime and then you can cook. Cooking too actually and then one with the bay leaf and one with the house. Exactly you can take one to work with it. Right out of applause for Tristan. Do great. Lovely stuff. Take 1243 as the time. Ross is in Dundee. Ross question or answer. I've got a question please. Tyrone. Why the old evolving doors turn anticlockwise? What? Yeah a revolving door when you walk up to them. No I know what a revolving door is hang on let's let me picture it. Walking up to it doesn't that's clockwise. No. Goes that way. Yeah okay carry on. So the old going to clockwise now I have to admit. Well I have to go anti-clockwise because you push them you don't pull them. But you can push them the other side. So yeah but we're all I mean it's biased to right-handed people. Well actually do you know what I have to confess that before I was an

2:13:23avid listener. Yeah. You're you're sure. I checked online okay but the end of the day gave me wrong information which is why I'm phoned into being strange things about. But I think obviously it has to go with the direction that the door user is pushing and because we're about 80% right-handed it's more in fact they might be 90% it's going to go to the right because you're going to push with your right hand. No I have to push it with my left hand because you're going to the right hand side right you're going to the right hand side to push it with your left hand. Well all right then the bias the right-handed bias is leaning you towards the right hand side and you'll push whatever's in front of you regardless of what hand you're going to push it with. I don't think that's right. I was your theory there. But somebody said it was to do with the say there's a road that you drive on and it's definitely in every county but that can't be right because that's not right for the UK. I think that they've all worked all all all all revolving doors are going to go the way that you've described. Not they. Regardless of why. Well because we're 90% right-handed. You must be in the front of that. You might have answered it but you know it must be.

2:14:26It must be. It must have all been doors. Well no I'm not I can't I mean I can't even begin to pretend that I'm an expert on revolving. No. I've been through a few. Yeah I've been through a few. But I can't like claim to any form of expertise. No. So I'll put it on the board. I'll put it on the board and if it's not if it's not that I'll be very interested in the answer and if it is that I'll be very smug about having already provided it. Ross thank you it's 1245. So where's the ones that you least expect isn't it? A revolving door question is causing all sorts of rumpus and I just need to clarify something. We're talking about putting bay leaves in your casserole not bay leaves. So whatever you do do not put bay leaves the sort of creamy whiskey liqueur don't put that in anything that is savoury and certainly don't message me to tell me the things that you have put bay leaves in that were massively improved by the presence. So bay leaves two words bay leaf not bay leaves putting bay leaves in your chili cough for goodness sake. Ross is in banger.

2:15:27Ross question or answer? It's an answer. Carry on. It's the advertising on the television. Oh yes. It depends. Does it want to give you the I'm going to give you the historical answer and I'll give you what's happening now. I'll give you the now actually first. The now is that your TV is watching you. So when you buy a new TV. Yeah. Does the screen you get that says do you agree to all of this and none of us read it. Yeah. But what it means is it can it then uses technology to see what you're watching. Quite literally it's taking screenshots of your screens you're watching Telli and building up a pattern of who you are. Same not as you tell me. Same with lots of other technologies. They haven't read the terms. They're telling me. Yeah. Yeah. So it's called automatic content recognition. So it knows when you're watching the football and it knows when you're watching the prices right wherever it is that you're watching. And then it serves ads based on that historically though which I think was where you thought the answer was. So different different people watching the same program are going to have different commercial breaks on terrestrial television. Yes. Shut the front door. Shut the front door. Yeah. It's called automatic content recognition. You

2:16:29can go and google it after if you want. I don't doubt you. I'm not what your qualifications are yet. If you turn out to be an ice cream man then we might have to have words but that's so I'm watching. I did you know I was watching two people watching the same program on terrestrial television stations are going to have different adverts on a modern television. That's the bit. Okay. If you've got one of these TVs where you've had to give permission at the start. Yeah. Before you even when you set it up it's a game. I can play Xbox on my telly. So I've obviously got all of that. So even in the same house two people in the same house with two televisions watching the same program could get different commercial break. No. No. Why not? That's the same TV on the same IP address. IP address. Crucial point. Carry on. Okay. So historically though it wasn't about time which you thought it was. It was about the type of TV you were watching. And so when they served football in history it's so when they served football on old TVs in the old days when you got an air on top of your house. But they were making guests in that so they're saying well people watching football are probably going to drink larger or they're probably going to go in debt and that's how they did

2:17:30it. They basically they're based it on the TV show you're watching. Yeah. No. I get I get I get I mean I don't know. It was a little bit more but new one's done that wasn't it. There'd be it wouldn't always be tailor made but that would be the general dry. It was a guest in us. Yes exactly but in that case it was everybody watching football got the same ads. And then you've also got if you're watching daytime television on what we used to call satellite channels it's quite cheap to get adverts there. So you'll get adverts for quite you know small outfits and operations or people selling like you know military coins or something. I used my my friend used to watch a lot of rubbish and when I went around to see him he he would be watching adverts for like gold bullion and things like that. And that's just because it's quite cheap at that time of day and the audience is likely to be older. Although you know the plates with cats on all like the plates when the royals do something. That kind of thing. Yeah that kind of thing. Exactly. And you find them on the back page of the radio times. Yes. That's a lot of money. That's a serious spend. That's that's one of the most expensive places you could place in the ad. The back of the radio time so they're

2:18:30not necessarily. I was thinking more of a local travel agent. Yeah. So I'm going to get pops up on the cricket on sky news. And it's localised as well. Yeah. A bit about the ads. So he won't only get he won't only get a funeral parlor. He might get days funeral parlor and he's town on his tail. So Lewis is getting adverts that sadly think he's older than he thinks he is. Yeah. Or he didn't read the terms of conditions when he said he's telling off. There he is. There there he is. So I can't still I mean I believe you but I don't believe you. Do you know what I mean? You can yeah. Well I believe you because you sound very convincing and I'll ask you what your qualifications are. I'm a marketing consultant global one actually if one could be really big about it. There you go. I've been doing it for 18 years. And so I believe I believe you but I can't believe that if the neighbours are watching the same programme as me they can get a different adverts on normal ITV. Best things to do is get one of your kids or somebody to stand between the two ads and watch the same show and wait for the adverts. I mean it's it. How many people knew that? Hands up

2:19:32everyone listening. You put your hand up now if you knew that. It's called automatic content recognition and it's going to get more precise. You live and learn eh? So he's telling he's literally watching him. Yeah. No I get it. Yeah. Round of applause for Russ. And making all of these decisions not just about adverts. I mentioned it the other day my friend Alexis Conran has written a brilliant sub stack about this. He's fascinated by it. We used to do the the real hustle on the tally looking into into sort of more obvious scams and hustles but this is just an interesting modern development that Russ has nailed down perfectly. There you go. Flip and act Lewis. Bad news really for you. Raising opens and ray. Question or answer? Arthur James. I mean someone who could tell a good singing voice with Jacquino Rossini who was the composer of William Tell. A figure of figure of figure of Barbara of Seville born in Pizarro in Italy in 1792 officially on the 29th of February. Wow. I don't know why you got a round of

2:20:38applause there but I mean because I didn't deliver him. So but do we know that was that on his birth certificate? Yes. Yes. Well I mean I've always known it was the 29th of February. Any biography of him straight away says born on the 29th of February and there was one kids music book where they said you know he he was he only had so many birthdays because I'm fortunate for him who's born in the 29th of February. But I don't know if this helps us establish whether or not Nigel's granddad in 1906 was born on the 1st of March or the 19th of February 29th of February. No I can't help. I don't know about that far. I will have another round of applause anyway but also you're a bit of a music buffer sense. Do you know whether or not you can tell whether or not someone has a good singing voice from their speaking voice? I don't know I always think it's odd I mean it always fascinates me the accent thing you know how people usually unless it's something like the proclaimers or a British people trying to sound American when you sing you can't tell the accent someone will have a broad Scottish or Irish accent but you can't tell that

2:21:41necessarily unless it's deliberate. Yeah like you say the proclaimers are a really good example. Mike Skinner as well the streets he because around when he broke through most most sort of rappers and hip hop artists were all trying to sound American and he didn't he didn't make any effort whatsoever to sound anything other than exactly who he is but they're lovely stuff right I'll leave it on the board I love that as when I was a kid the William Tello Vitts you're I would have struggled to remember who it was by but though what did it go on was it the lone ranger? That's right and also also appropriately William Tello on television the series with Conrad to Philip. I even set words to it. Mike, Mike with William Tello come away to the land he loves so well. But before my time that you still get on DVD. Oh there you go. I love the lone ranger though thank you Brian Zinwigen Brian question or answer. Answer please James. I think I know which one it is if you're in Wigan. Yep. Go on. Finds employee for 32 years. 32 years. 32 years. Wow. Yeah. Just a grudge.

2:22:43Oh, retired now. Okay. All nice. Yes as well. Anyway to get that to the cans. The reason the cans are not stuck in and they're very often fall over is because the the bottom of the can and the what we call the body of the can is one piece all like the lid of the top originally there were three piece two ends on a body then years and years ago when I was there they decided to change the baby-free land over to make it a true piece can. Right. And that did away with the the weld in the center. So it saved a few quid did it? Well it's not just that they wanted to get rid of any led or anything that could penetrate the product. Right. But eventually the whole setup became true piece. And there was a problem in the production line because there were forever fallen over on the conveyor these cans. Yeah. Because of this round edge if you look at the bottom of the can

2:23:47it's not square like the top. No, it's a bevel like this. The word beveled. Well it's like a bevel yeah. It's a bit like a bevel. So what they did they put like a twister involved. Right. They turned the cans over before they hit the conveyor which eradicated that problem. It's a straight way. I mean what was the feeling at work at the time because everyone likes to stack their cans and you can't stop. If they're in a pack you just put the pack that's true. Yeah. And just stack on the packs. Yeah. Because it's in the cardboard now. It's in the cardboard. Yeah. So you put four on four or whatever. That was a problem and then they brought the ring pull out as well. That was a bit of a problem. Does that make stacking not impossible? You can stack some ring pull. I think I stack my tuna. That's good. Well you can stack them now because like I said the normal it upside down going through the system and then the turn back again at the end because that's where you've got your production cord on the chop so you can actually tell that the actual minute the cat the can was filled. This is lovely. This is great.

2:24:50Qualifications. 32 years on the job. 32 years flipping. How hard was it to adjust your body clock when you came off 32 years doing nothing really got into a body clock. What you did it for 32 years. Three, four days on the night shift and then you come off with a couple of days on normal hours. Yeah. And you go back again. So you never really had a body clock. You've not got one. I've been gone 15 years now. Yeah but you sound very well on it Brian. Yeah I'm doing well. Did you get did you get a good stuff discount? We did at the beginning it was unbelievable at the beginning. A penny a can bear beverage. That was back in 17 and that. Good Lord. When you left. And then there was a cry when they went up to two pieces. It's 100% increase and it was ridiculous. What was it when you left? When I left I think there were very 10 pieces. That's not bad is it? And is there any. Did you get any benefits as a pensioner? As a high interventioner do you get is there any any special benefits for you? Well you get the option of going back to the shop when you can go into the factory shop. There you go. That's one of my favourite answers in a long time.

2:25:55I'm very rarely get anyone quite as qualified as you Brian. Have a round. You want to come just plus my eyes James over the years. We can't be phenomenal. Billions. Billions literally billions. I'm glad there it is. I've almost certainly in a can that you would have handled. I'll be honest with you. After the first shift my eyes closed when I got in bed and I could not get them come. I can believe you. I'll be like in and again and again just going on. I'll do it all again. I'll be honest. I'll do it all again. Great camaraderie as well. On a production line. Great camaraderie I think. It was brilliant. It was a pleasure. Lovely stuff. Thank you Brian. You've ended off a really enjoyable show in absolutely cracking fashion. If you missed any of it you can listen. Oh hang on. Oh no I've got to pick a winner now. Oh I've got to be Brian. It's got to be Brian, isn't it? It's got to Brian. If he wants it, if he doesn't want to give it to someone else. If you missed any of today's show you can listen back on our free global player app or the LBC app where you can also stay up to date with all the latest news videos and opinions. Ranger podcasts, James the Brian daily, best bits from my show

2:27:00every day. LBC app free, app store. Now, Swabrick 4, now, shut Fogarty. This has been a global player, original production.