Is Singapore Airlines Still A Profit Superstar?

0:00Hello and welcome to the airline Weekly Large. I'm your host Gordon Smith and I'm joined as usual by Coho's J-Shabbit. In part one, we're making sense of the latest numbers from Singapore Airlines and in part two, we preview IAG's full-year results. Hi, Jay. How's it going? All right, Gordon. We got to review in a preview today, right? Review in a preview. You're going to have to say that with a slightly southern accent for it to sound good. Review in a preview. Review in a preview. We're starting off with Singapore Airlines because we're very much in review territory there, Jay. We had the numbers as we were recording here on the 24th of February, out in the past few hours. So they're still fairly fresh from the team in Changi. For anyone that doesn't want to go into huge levels of detail or they haven't already read through the Singapore numbers, give us the headline figures.

1:04I'll preface that by saying that Singapore Airlines, they do report their results quarterly. So we do have the numbers for October to December now. They don't really do much beyond just publishing their financial statements for this particular quarter. They will do a more comprehensive earnings call slash review. One of you say earnings call, but management will give a presentation locally and that they tend to do just twice a year. So just wanted to be clear that we don't have too much beyond the numbers and a few modest commentary if you comments about some of the latest trends, which we'll talk about. So what do we have here? Singapore Airlines did very well last quarter, 14% operating margin, and that's up from 12% for the same quarter last year. So they finished 2025 very strongly.

2:13A couple things to know. The costs did go up by about 3%, but then revenues went up by almost double that, about almost 6%. So very good revenue environment. And it's really not too much of a mystery why and nor is it terribly new. The phenomenon here, and that's the famous P word now. Basically, when premium is doing well, Singapore is doing well. So next time you're at an airline themed dinner party and Singapore Airlines comes up as a topic, you can sound smart saying, well, tell me, you want to know how Singapore is doing? Tell me how premium is doing. And of course, you know, me, Jay, every Friday night, I've got my airline dinner parties. All right. Yeah. And on your own. Come on, let's Friday night. So it's in Lisbon this week. Well, I almost feel like this podcast could be like a close your eyes, you get a stake in front of you, a glass of red wine. You could basically be at the dinner table with

3:14me and me and Jay. How about that? Stop making me hungry. I'm losing my thoughts. Back to Singapore Airlines. Yeah. So they do premium. Obviously, we know from, I mean, anybody who's listened to even an episode or two of us talking or have read our newsletter, you'll know that that premium has been been booming doing very, very well in the past couple of years. So Singapore Airlines is kind of sitting in that sweet spot in the market. They did pretty well for the full year as well, the full calendar year. They had a 9% operating margin. It's a little bit down from 10% the year before. But still, that's a, you know, that's pretty solid year, 9% for these guys. So they do, we talked about, yeah, the premium doing very well. I should also mention that the Singapore economy has been doing very well. And a big reason for that is they are very exposed to some of these AI artificial intelligence investments that are happening.

4:18So, you know, if you think about these really expensive semiconductor chips to train AI models that are getting exported to the US and to, you know, around the world. A lot of the components for that and parts for that. Singapore has a big role in that whole ecosystem. And that's helped their economy a lot. We've been making some other healthy sectors to like pharmaceuticals. And interestingly enough, AI pharmaceuticals, those are two very large sectors of the US economy where tariffs never were applied. So they kind of escape the whole tariff nightmare that's all playing it, playing out right now. And those sure enough, those two industries are doing well. Singapore is very, or Singapore, the economy there is very exposed to that. So big help to Singapore Airlines. Now they are, you know, talking about trade and tariffs. They are about 11% of their revenues come from cargo. So they are exposed to that. And it's not that cargo has really

5:23been that across the airline industry. And again, a lot of error cargo is exposed as exposed as opposed to like sea cargo. A lot of error cargo is some of this like high value stuff that's related to IT products and pharmaceuticals. So that's kind of been spared some of the tariff drama. And it's so it's held up reasonably well. But they Singapore Airlines definitely didn't mention that the tariffs have paid at least some toll on the cargo business. Their cargo revenues and yields actually went down year every year in the quarter. So that part of the business is not doing all that great. What else Singapore Airlines? Well, if I can extend the metaphor of our dinner party, I wonder what music we will be playing at the dinner party. The mood music you might say, because a cursory glance at some of the news wires today, Jay Reuters taken as one,

6:23they said that Singapore Airlines' third quarter profit dives nearly 69%. There's language around that that doesn't sound quite so positive. You're sounding more upbeat. Maybe for some of our newer listeners, those who aren't quite so tapped into the industry or frankly those who are just confused that you've got one source saying died by 69%. That sounds terrible. And you're sounding more optimistic. Bridge that gap for us. Why is the reason for optimism here despite some of those quite shocking headline numbers? Excellent question. Those headlines can be very misleading. So be careful when you read, particularly in a non-trade publication from a journalist who may not be particularly familiar with the details of really any company, but in this case in airline. The net result last year for Singapore Airlines was bumped up a lot by just basically special items, accounting items related to their merger of the Stara, which they

7:24own part of the merged with their India. So we had like a big bump last year. That doesn't exist this year. So it looks like wow, it's a big fall, but you really take to get a good sense of what's going on with the business. You have to look at the operating results. And it's not that the net isn't important. The net's going to include not just the special items. It's also going to include interest on that. And obviously if you're a heavily indebted carrier, which Singapore Airlines is most definitely not. But if you're heavily indebted, of course, you know, it's something you just want to look at if you're analyzing the company. But if you look at the operating results, you'll get an exclude any kind of special items. You'll get a better sense of what's going on. And as I just told you, the operating results clearly show that Singapore Airlines had a very, very good quarter, very solid 2025. And in fact, their quarter last year was better this year than last. So 2025 versus 24. So yeah, great, great question there. I did want to say one other thing

8:26though about their net result. Even ex-special items, the net result last quarter, and even last year was weaker than maybe Singapore Airlines would have liked for a meaningful reason beyond just special items. And the reason why there's a drag there on that net result. And again, we're not talking about year-to-year comparisons or anything like that. We're just talking about, you know, how did they do last quarter? They do have a lot of losses coming in from Air India. So those are counting losses that are booked and not on the operating level, but they're booked in net. And that's kind of a drag on their net profitability. If you think about, so I'll back up a sec and talk a little strategically, or so Singapore for decades now. They've always been a profitable airline. They used to be a lot more profitable,

9:32you know, going back, let's say before the 2008-09 financial crisis. They kind of run it, ran into some trouble in the 2010s, mostly because of just super heavy competition from low-cost carriers, from Gulf carriers, from Chinese carriers, et cetera, et cetera. Their margins were positive, but not very, you know, not very impressive. And then post pandemic, they wound up really through a variety of reasons, you know, restructuring their costs and a lot of their competition, one way, et cetera, the premium boom. They're actually doing much better now, post pandemic, you know, 23, 24, 25, it ends in 20, 26. So Singapore Airlines, you know, for all, it's just going back decades, they've always had this kind of nervousness about being too exposed to premium, too exposed to Singapore, you know, itself, the Singapore market. And so, you know, one thing they did to diversify away from just premium is that they started, you know,

10:35this is low-cost carrier called SCOOT back, you know, whatever was a decade and a half ago, I can't remember when. And that's been, you know, it doesn't break out the profitability of SCOOT. I assume it's okay, I can't imagine it's very profitable, probably performs some useful functions and holding back, you know, low-cost competition. So they did that. And then the other thing they wanted to always do is to diversify geographically, they've for, you know, many years looked at buying assets in China, China, Eastern was a rumor, you know, take over target or investment target, let's say, for many years. And what they wound up doing is going into India and, you know, very high potential market. But it was like, you know, I'll use an analogy here, it's like, you know, those, those television shows where they, the couple shops for the, the

11:36home, the real estate, the family will go around and, you know, they would like a home hunters or home, home buyer hunters, whatever it is. And, you know, they'll, they'll look, oh, let's take a look at this home in a nice neighborhood, you know, maybe this home in a nice, more of an up-and-coming neighborhood. What Air India is is a fixer-opper. It's one of these properties that really needed a lot, a lot of work. But it was very much in an up-and-coming neighborhood. I mean, India's potential economically is so strong, potential aviation-wise is so strong. That Singapore Airlines decided, hey, let's buy this fixer-opper. But if you buy a fixer-opper, you're going to be exposed to a lot of headaches. So far, the headaches have been much more than the benefits. Well, that change over time, they hope so. But obviously, the, the Big Air India accident last

12:36year, the tragic, you know, crash in Ahmedabad was a big setback to their turnaround. I think you've maybe written some about their turnaround as well, Gordon, and spoken with their CEO if you have anything to say there. But, you know, I just want everybody to know that so far, they made a big bet there on a very tainted asset. And the bet so far is not bearing fruit. Not bearing fruit. We started this conversation, Jay, with Singapore Airlines and all the benefits that AI brings in terms of artificial intelligence to the cargo division and everything else. And now we're ending our conversation, at least, for this part, with a more negative AI. So, AI, give it AI, take it, be it Air India, or be it artificial intelligence, you can see why I did there. But yeah, I could, I could ask your India should use that more in their marketing. Wow. Wow. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll I'll I'll, I'll, I'll be sure. But we picked a couple of weeks here without marketing idea for a saga class.

13:42A few people reach out to me on LinkedIn and just slide into my DMs saying, you know, that's not actually a bad idea. Anyway, speaking about India, just wanted to highlight, we don't have Campbell Wilson joining us this year, but we do have Peter Elbers, who you cannot describe anything around, her India, without talking about Indigo. Peter Elbers, the CEO of Indigo, will be joining us at the Skift India Intelligence Summit. That's in Delhi on March 26th, so not too far away. It is by invite only go to live.skift.com for all the details there, and to be considered to come along and join us. It's going to be a senior event, but the the agenda is looking really, really top-class, and I'll be there as well, if that helps grease the wheels, it's all Jay. Much more than that in the coming weeks. What's that? I was that reason enough to go. Reason enough to go, yeah. Looking forward to that one. Before we go into the break, go anything else to add on Singapore Airlines a little bit more detail I expect in the Elon Weekly issue this week. Yeah, we'll have more on the earnings. I guess the only thing

14:44worth mentioning here in addition is that they have been very aggressive, informing partnerships and alliances. There was once a time when they are a little bit standoffish about that. They didn't like alliances so much. They said our product is superior, they put a lot of money into the product for sure. It says internationally well-regarded. They always said that attitude. We don't want to ally with an inferior airline in terms of their product, put our customers on it, but that's totally not their attitude anymore. They work very closely with a bunch of different airlines, including all in the pond in Japan, in New Zealand, in Loptunza, etc. They're doing a lot more partnership activity locally within the ASEAN region. Singapore's neighbors, if you think about Indonesia, giant market in terms of population, they have a new joint venture with Garuda, Indonesia. They also have one

15:49information with Malaysia Airlines. They work with Vietnam Airlines a little bit as well. They really have their hand of friendship extended, let's say, to airlines throughout the world. Before we head into the break, we're drawn by a skifter that you might not be so familiar with, and that's Adam Stacey. He's a senior editorial event and awards producer. That's a big title, and he's currently working on the Skift Idea Awards. Adam, welcome to the airline Weekly Lounge. Thank you very much. Glow in introduction. The benefit of Listers who aren't familiar with the idea awards, what are they all about? Yeah, so Skift Idea Awards were just moving into our eighth year. So the awards were launched really to recognize and celebrate the most impactful ideas across travel, just the entire ecosystem. But I like to think of them as the travel industry's innovation, Ben Snark.

16:51We all know we're at the pivotal moment of transformation for the industry, structurally, technologically, operationally, and these are awards about spotlight in the companies and leaders who are actually driving that change. So I'm talking about things like advancements in customer experience, AI, digital transformation, sustainability, product design, all that good stuff. And what's important with the awards as well is that it's not necessarily about scale. So we're open to everyone because our focus is about impact. So we see submissions from startups, mid-size players, global brands, individual leaders. I was like the think innovation doesn't correlate with the size of the company. It correlates with the execution and the results that they're putting out the last while we are recognizing with these awards. Totally agree. Sometimes it helps if you're a little bit more nimble, a bit smaller. You can be a little bit more disruptive in a very large corporation, but what would you say add them to an airline weekly lounge listener who says, that all sounds great, but where do I fit it? Yeah. And I'm not an airline expert, so I'm not going

17:56to tell what to do. But I think for this audience, we have an obvious category, which is airlines and airports, it's specifically designed for that industry. That could cover anything from carbon innovation, distribution strategies, emerging advanced aimability. We're seeing all this stuff with flying taxis and this crazy stuff, but we also have category specifically for technology. So this industry specifically is deep into AI deployment with folks in on revenue optimization, workforce planning, retail transformation, data-driven personalization, and sustainability as well. That's another area where this industry is focused on, so fleet strategy, emissions tracking, new planes, all that stuff. So we're looking for initiatives really that just demonstrate tangible progress and the better in the experience for the end use and the industry as a whole.

18:57Sounds great. And if anyone still wants to, I believe you got a quiz as well, we do. We do our marketing team. I'd like to call them the best in the biz. They've come up with a quiz that you answer a couple of questions and the quiz will tell you basically which categories are the best fit. Amazing. One new thing we've launched this year is where is that you can actually download a sample form before you submit. So if you're entering on behalf of a client maybe or you know, quite sure what a submission form looks like, you can just download a PDF sample and take a look in advance. Super, super helpful. Okay. You've got everyone interested. What is the call to action? Where do they go next if they want to apply or learn a little bit more? Yeah. So the next step is to just head to the website, which is hosted on live.skift.com and then you just follow through to ID rewards. As you mentioned, we've got a quiz. You'll find all of the categories, the sample PDFs, judges, previous winners, if you're curious to see who's made in the past and all of the relevant timelines. The submission process is very straightforward and streamlined. It's all done remotely

20:00via our online system. You can buy you now at the lowest rate and continue to edit up until the entry deadline in July. So there's no huge time commitment there. And one thing I would say is even if you're unsure about whether your project or initiative will qualify is worth exploring from speaking to past winners, some of the most compelling, I've come from projects that they didn't think would be a good fit. And then they've gone on to win. So yeah, if you've got a smart solution that solves a real world problem, take a look. We love to. Yeah. Sounds great. Thanks again for coming up to the show. Adam and telling us all about it. And I can speak for myself for the global forum in New York, last September, we go see for ourselves many of the idea awards winners. And they are from right across the industry. It's not always who you might expect. So yeah, do check that website, our live.skift.com where you find all the details for the idea awards. Just scroll down to the bottom of the page. You'll get all the info there. Thanks for joining us on the show and list us hang around because we'll be talking I.G. Right after the

21:03short break. Hello and welcome back to the airline weekly lounge. I'm Gordon Smith, joined as usual by co host. Jay Shabbat, part one we were discussing all things Singapore Airlines and a few other associated companies. We're now moving our attention to I.G. Because as we're recording here on February 24th, we've got the I.G. results coming out on Friday, Jay. And they aren't just any old quarterly results. These are the annual figures. So as we do head into those full year earnings from the international airlines group, Jay, what's the single most important number that you're looking for first? You know, we discussed the importance of looking at contacts, looking at detail, excluding special items, other elements when we're discussing SIA and part one, what will you be looking for at I.G. Operating margin, unit revenue, guidance, what number is the one that you go to immediately when you get that you get that market filing in on a Friday morning? Yeah, you said it, the operating margin. There we go. That's the yeah, the one that I you can basically use

22:04that to compare across different airlines. And the operating margin for I.G. has been extremely strong over the past couple of years. And in 2024, for example, I.G. had a 13% operating margin that was better than Delta, it's better than United. And it was, let's see, is left tons of, just for example, is 4% and Air France is 5%. So you could see those three, you know, Europe's big three, we've got I.G. at 13 and the other two at 4 to 5. So they're just running away. They're just, you know, running away in the race in terms of profitability. And not just one good quarter, Jay, you know, that's annual. Yeah, that was, that was annual. And so far in 2025, they've, you know, just been keeping up the, keeping up the pace. Huh, they had in the third quarter. Of course, this is a European airlines kind of peak in the summer. You're going to get higher

23:05numbers. But I.G. have a 22% operating margin in the third quarter. And that's again, like 13% for Air France, K.L.N. 12% for La Tonza. So these guys are just way out of the pack. Iberia, in particular, and I wish we had more time to, you know, go, we'll have to do a podcast about just Iberia one of these days because super fascinating turnaround story there over the past 20 years. I mean, I remember when I, you know, first, first was working on airline weekly year, the back in the early 2000s. Iberia was a real basket case. I mean, it was, uh, it's, it's, financials were bad. It had a outdated product. It's fleet was, was outdated and old. It's, you know, IT systems revenue management distribution was, was, was, was way outdated. Uh, it was just getting eaten alive by low cost carriers in the shore hall. Uh, and yet had like all the wrong

24:05claims along and all, you know, these four engine, they three, 40 gas galsers up when, when IEG came in, I basically after the British Airways merger, uh, they basically cleaned it up in in a, in a, in a spectacular way. And Iberia, I said that IEG had a 22% operating margin in the third quarter. Well, Iberia alone had a 24% operating margin. Oh, that's, let's make a leery blush. It's enough to make a leery blush. Let's see. What did a leery have? I'm looking at my trusty spreadsheet. Well, he had a 36 this summer stuff. He's, he's fine. We don't have to. Don't send him any roses or anything. Sympathy roses. He's fine. But all right, back to IG. So I want to talk about today, um, uh, why IEG is so strong, why they're doing so well. And of course, that would be a topic that Gordon, if at the dinner party on Friday,

25:06I'm sure we're going to be talking about this. And we're going to spend the whole hour just talking about why that's the case. And, you know, we'll talk about their competitive cost base. And, you know, the London Heathrow capacity constraints that really helped, you know, British Airways with their yields. You talk about, you know, the loyalty program is going well. And the old Spanish and British colonial empires that, you know, foster so much traffic between Spain and Latin America and United States and India to the UK, whatever, whatever. So I just, just gave a bunch of them rolled off a bunch there. But I want to focus on two today, um, what I call the, uh, the two T's. Are you ready? The two T's. The two T's. I go ahead. So the two T's are the transatlantic market and tourism. And so the transatlantic market, we know, has really been booming. And there's no bigger transatlantic market in the world than London, UK, London. Uh, so British Airways has really benefited from that enormously. And then if you

26:08think about not necessarily the biggest market, but the hottest market in the transatlantic, well, Spain has certainly been one of them. Uh, you could throw Italy in there, you could throw Greece in there, but it's these, you know, Mediterranean markets. And we can see Gordon, I think sent you some numbers this morning. I don't know if you have them in front of you. But, uh, the, do you have those numbers I sent, um, with, uh, looking at the change and capacity for different transatlantic markets by country over the past two summers. I'm looking at them right now. Yeah, you want to share some, some takeaways from that. I looked at that and, and it's like, okay, wow, there's, there's a big divergence here. Yes, the transatlantic market is booming, but some are booming, you know, the boom is not created all equal here. Absolutely, Roger. So we are looking at some Syrian Dio data and we're comparing Q3, 2026 with Q3, 2024 in terms of seats and percentage difference in seats. This is all focused

27:12on the, the origin country. If we look at even the top 5J, so, um, again, no spoilers here. Number five is Spain, then Italy, France, Germany, and the United Kingdom. Even within the top five, the marked difference. So, uh, Spain in fifth place is got 21.1% improvement in seats. So, going from around to 945,000 in Q3 of 2024, that's shot up, smashed the one million mark, that one billion. That would be a new story. The one million mark to just have a 1.1 million for Q3, 26. Italy follows a similar trend up 24.5% growing from 1.1 million to more than 1.4 million. And then things kind of steady, eddy in France, 3.4, 3.2, forgive me, percent uplift there to 1.7 million. And then things actually in negative territory for Germany, down a fraction of 1%, 0.6% to be precise

28:12in Germany. And then things a little bit more sharply down, down 4% for the UK. And of course, that being the largest origin market, that makes all the difference, a loss of 148,000 seats, comparing those two quarters. But still, the largest overall in terms of Europe at 3.5 million there, J. So, there are quite a few other interesting markets. Ireland's upper good chunk, Iceland's well down. But I start those, those top five would be a good place to start to show that it's a patchwork. It's not a doom narrative with everything that's going on in terms of the geopolitics and the economy and everything else tariffs. But equally, it's not universally positive either. Right. Yeah, those are super interesting numbers. I thought, you know, with the exception of maybe Ireland or just a ton of Americans or, you know, guys, it's pretty easy trip to do from a place like Boston or New York. And a decent amount of corporate as well, actually, going into Dublin these days. Yeah, you have the corporate too. And I think the corporate is really helping with London too and B.A. But in terms of just volumes,

29:18and again, this is C, this is not passenger flows, but there's going to be a correlation here. It's where the real boom is is southern Europe. It's not northern Europe. So, it's the Spain, as Gordon mentioned, it's Italy. It's Greece, which is about 28% a little bit further down the list here because it's smaller. But that's where the boom is. Whereas, yeah, you're, you know, you're Scandinavia, you're Germany, not a whole lot going and, you know, they're probably decent markets. But Sweden, for example, I think United actually pulled some of their newer flights to Scandinavia. Sweden is down 27% or the summer will be. And again, just as a reminder, as Gordon says, it's going to be versus two summers ago. Just I pulled up the two-year trend. But yeah, very much a southern European boom. So, British Airways is still getting it, not only through connections, but also, as you said, like the business, the business demand, to London, it's just kind of its own thing. And the Heathrow constraints and all that. They're

30:19doing very, very well in London. Airlingus is getting it. We talked about, you know, Ireland being the exception, huge boom there. And then Spain is just, you know, is getting it like a waterfall. I mean, it's really, they're just in a fantastic position. I mean, Spain is kind of the superstar economy of Europe over the past couple of years. And the reason it's the superstar is because of one particular superstar industry, which is tourism. And I, you know, IAG, Iberia have just been, out of wailing, you know, been in just the right place. They're haytime for that. The population is growing in Spain because they're, you know, very rare country these days in the West. It's actually immigration is actually increasing. A lot of it is coming from Latin America. Iberia always says, you know, Madrid is the new Miami. Everybody from South America is coming over to visit. Madrid now. A lot of, you know, business investment, etc. Those markets are very, very strong.

31:21South America to Madrid, even some Barcelona. They have some of that now too. So yeah, again, just just a lot, lot going right on the IAG side from both the tourism and the transatlantic. The two T's, is this going to be another boom year, particularly for Southern Europe? Or is there going to be some, you know, is that not the case? Yeah. There are some pressures. There's definitely some emerging pressures coming out in that market. I mean, some of the strength from the point of sale US is under pressure because the dollar is weaker versus the euro than it was and versus the pound that it was. So that's one element of, let's just call it one headwind. We also have, you know, I think increasing weakness going the other way. You're up to the US. I think we've heard that from Iceland there. We've heard that from Sinair. We've heard that from

32:24here, France, KLM actually. One thing we've heard from KLM for sure is that that inbound or the sort of that sixth freedom traffic that flows over those European hubs into the US is way down. So all that stuff going from Africa, Middle East, India through, you know, Amsterdam. I mean, it's not really going to go through Madrid. Some of it goes through London. I mean, a lot of people are scared to connect through London because it's long-distance, sorry, congested. But they do get some of that, you know, India to the US. So listen for that is that down for IG as well. And I guess the, you know, kind of the other wild card potential headwind is the world cup this summer. You know, is that going to be a negative because that sort of tends to throw off a lot of normal traffic flows. They will, will be, you know, a lot of people going, but maybe not a lot of business people going. So they may be, you know, emptier business class cabins, premium economy gums. I don't

33:25know. So, but something to listen for when you're tuned into the I.D. call. Thanks for that, Jay. That's the Jay Shabbat I.A.G. Crypt sheet for the Friday earnings call. Lots to listen out for there. And as we said, much more details come in the upcoming issues of airline weekly. And if you're not already a subscriber, go to airlineweekly.com forward slash subscribe. And a reminder that as an airline weekly subscriber, you access to all the airline news on skifters.com plus skifters such as airline reports. So loads of value there. Skift. Skift aplenty airlineweekly.com forward slash subscribe. And before that, before we wrap up, brother, quick reminder to send any questions or comments that you might have for us to podcasts at skifters.com that's podcasts with an S at the end. And please don't forget to follow or subscribe to the podcast wherever you're listening or watching. And if you are enjoying the show, please write us five stars or leave us a post for review. So we can continue to spread the word about the airline weekly launch. Right. Jay, thank you for joining me this week. Loads of other numbers coming in. I know we've got Air New Zealand, we've got North, we've got JetBlue,

34:28not all of them publicly traded, but certainly a lot of data points of nothing else. Etti had as well. We had today a lot more numbers to get crunching through. So I'll let you get back to that for a while. It's all this stuff in Mexico going on. There we go. Yeah, for sure. We'll allow it as well. So many data points to get to diving into. So we'll head back to that. But in the meantime, thanks to Jay for joining me. Thanks as always to our producers, Jean Monica and Will and wherever you are on the world. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time. Bye for now. Whether you're listening to us on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts, please remember to subscribe, rate us five stars or leave us a positive review. This really helps us get the word out about the airline weekly launch. So you can continue to bring you to this podcast every week, absolutely free of charge. And if you're watching us on YouTube, be sure to subscribe to the Skift channel and hit the notification bell to find out whenever a new video drops.