Interrogation Of Killer Debra Burge WhereText Messages Lead Detectives to Killers Home

0:00This is Byard Winthrop, founder of American Giant. We make all our clothing right here in the US with American cotton and American workers. Get 20% off your first order when you use code giant20 at american-giant.com. My name's Mackenzie and I started to go fund me for the adoptive mother of a nonverbal, autistic child. The mother had lost her job because she wasn't able to find adequate care for this autistic child. So she really needed some help with living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis. And we raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just like really being very clear about what we needed. We had some really generous donations from people who were really moved by the situation

1:00that this family was struggling with. GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising platform trusted by over 200 million people. Start your GoFundMe today at GoFundMe.com. That's GoFundMe.com. GoFundMe.com. This podcast is supported by GoFundMe. Welcome to your top true crime hub for the variety and episodes you're looking for. Enjoy. He's got on the back up on Thursday. Just back up the Thursday. I don't want to just go from there. We're all took place Thursday. What all your day consisted of? You just sat around the house. How is we? Me and Zach, Greer. Zach Greer. Zach Greer. What does Zach be? Well, we have been friends a long time ago. And then he, I guess he went to jail and got out and then we got back in contact. And he asked if he can come stay at my house for a week, so it's just, you know, how weird. You have a number for him? No, actually, I don't. I haven't heard our scene from him since Friday. And they left me in a hotel room with my kids.

2:02Him and some guy. I don't even, I've never even seen the guy in my life. Let's back up. Thursday, you were sitting there at the house with him, right? Okay, what happened after that? We just hang out at the house. There's not really much you could do all there, you know? Did you go anywhere at all Thursday afternoon? Thursday night? His friend coming picked us up a room one o'clock. Who's this for in the morning? Mm-hmm. Because we had been hanging out like, I think we had went and picked my dad up from work. And he had been on the phone like the whole time we were out there. And then we got back to the house. The guy that we were going to hang out with didn't answer. So I don't even know his name. It's one of his friends. I think he said, is he with G or something? That's all he gave me is G. G? Just G. I'm kind of like scatterbrain, I'm really. That's okay. We'll get it all put together. Thursday, G pizza.

3:02Pizza, Thursday. Is it it? Or was that it? Um, on our way back from pace. We were eating the car. It was, it was all in the car. Me, my mom and dad, my two little girls and Zach. About three little girls, who were their fathers? Aaron Strickland is my two year olds father. And Lee Sutton is my five mentors. Father. Yeah. All right. Why are you eating pizza? Did you see anybody talking about it? Yes, I did. Right. Okay. What was that conversation about? Nothing much. I just asked him how his daughter was doing. Because me and her had been friends for a, you know, a really long time. And she went down the wrong path and got sent a rehab. So. What, what pizza place was it?

4:02Little Caesars and paste. Paste. Little 90. We're up beside one Dixie. Okay. So you just asked how his daughter was doing and all that. What else to talk about? Nothing. Okay. Well, don't you understand something? Okay. It's very important. And I know you say your scatterbrain on things. But I want you to understand it's very important. That anything that you can remember or anything that will see it or anything that took place. It's important. Okay. And you have to make sure that. When I ask you a question. That number one, you're 100% honest. Okay. And number two. That you don't give me half of the story. Okay. I'm going to say that. But let me finish from 10. Okay. Because I just want to make sure you understand me 100%. Okay. There's two things that can get you in trouble today. Okay. One of them is telling a lie. And the other one's blowing smoke up my hands.

5:03Okay. Neither one of them are going to happen correct. Correct. You're going to be 100% honest. Okay. We're not leaving anything out. No, sir. Right. Right. You with me. You know him. Okay. Who is that? That's right. Okay. And I guess by now, you know, he's dead. Okay. So we're going to get to that part in just a second. What did y'all talk about in little seizures? He's gone. That's all. I've never thought of a really long time. And, uh, she got sent to rehab. Like I said, so I was just asking now. She was doing when she was coming home. And, you know, a couple things like that. Maybe. Do you talk? Have you talked to him before? Mm-hmm. Okay. He calls my mom's phone or my dad's phone and, you know, talks to me every now and then. But it's not really much. Maybe like once a month or twice a month. That was the first time I'd seen him forever. You ever messed around? No. Okay. After the incident, little seizures. When was the next time you talked to him?

6:04Um, he called my mom's phone. I can't remember the time because, you know, we were eating pizza in the car with the kids. That's the. And he called my mom's phone our way there. It's just, I guess, to see what I was doing. On the way where? Back home. Okay. And. So right after y'all talked. Right after I seen him at, um, little seizures. Uh-huh. We laughed at about maybe 20, 20 minutes later. He called to, I guess, to see if I was in pace anymore. Because he knew that I didn't live in pace. I lived in Malino. Uh-huh. And I guess he was seeing if I, he asked if I was hanging out in pace or anything. I told him no. You know, I, I say Malino with my, my kids and my mom and dad. Okay. After that, did you talk to him anymore? I didn't talk to him anymore after that. About text messaging. I think it detects. Let me, let me explain something. Okay. You're saying you think. Okay. I'm telling you I know. Okay. So there's two things I've told you.

7:05Help yourself and tell me the truth. And let's get this straightened out and help you. Okay. There's no use you sitting here telling me a damn lie. When I know this, be honest. Help yourself, girl. You got an opportunity to tell the truth and help yourself. And you'd rather sit here and lie to me. Help yourself. This is your opportunity to tell the truth. And get it off your chest and what happened. Feel it, my kid. Hey, then help you talk. Tell me what you know. When you sit here and lie, that's where you get trouble. Except responsibility for what went on. You have an opportunity to stand up and say, Hey, I'm a state happened. What can I do to fix it? Here is your chance. That's why we're trying to be nice and we called you. We wanted to talk to you because we want you to be able to tell us the truth. The truth is the only thing you can sit here and tell today this will make you feel better. Don't sit here with something on your conscience that you need to let off of it. So you want to start all over and let's get right.

8:06Huh? You want us to put it on the table? Here's your opportunity. I need you to tell me the truth. Okay. Is that fair? Clear. Yeah. I know you've probably been a rep for the last few days. Yeah. You ain't slept the week, have you? Yes. I couldn't sleep. I just. I'm not giving trouble. Listen. Listen. We're getting off on our own path. Okay. Listen to me. The only person they can take care of children. Correct. Is there a mother? Okay. Let's do everything we can do to make sure that happens. Okay. Let's be honest. Okay. That's the way to go. Okay. So I'm going to start all over and don't you tell me what you know. Okay. Which I'll talk about in a little season. I think I'm looking at my shirt. Okay. You kept telling me that I had nice. Everything else. And any other time that he called my phone, he was always hitting on me.

9:06And he always made me feel uncomfortable. So I didn't, you know, I didn't ever hang out with them because I didn't want to be feeling uncomfortable around, you know, this is my friend. My best friend's dad, you know. And so it was, it was really weird. I left whenever we left those seizures. Like I said, he called me or gone on the road. He asked what I was doing if he can come hang out and I told him no. And then I told Zach what he had said to me. And I guess it had made a mad or something. And he asked me not to do come to our house. Hey, what asked you what? He asked me to ask me to do come to our house, staying out. So he comes to the house to hang out and we were sitting in his car hanging out with him. And my kids, I walked inside to check on my kids. And they were awake and I stayed inside my kids. I don't know, I don't know much after that. I went back inside hanging out with my kids and that was it. What happened when you came back out?

10:07When I came back out. Well, I was texting his phone telling him to tell Zach to come here. And to tell Ray to leave because he was making me feel uncomfortable. Because he took me to the store and he got trying to stick his hands on my pants. Where was Zach at when I happened? In the back seat of the car. And I guess he, I guess he's seen or whatever you know. And I guess it made a mad hole whenever I come back inside. I kept texting and telling him to come back to come inside me. I don't know what happened ever. Okay, when you walk back inside, what happened? You get off the chester. Who would have been able to go into my kids? You have to be honest. What happened when you broke down? Don't be that he was going to try to rob him for all this money.

11:09Did he have a lot of money? I don't know. I don't know how much money he had. And Zach told you that. Okay, what happened next? When I told Ray to leave. I texted his phone phone to leave. And I guess he drove down the road. And I guess Zach walked down the road. And I don't know. I don't know what happened down the road. I don't know. I don't know nothing. What happened after that? I guess I called Ray's phone and nobody would answer. So I started walking to the end of the road. When I get to the road, he comes running up. Okay, I'm running up. Zach did. No, he's over there. He killed him. I was scared. I didn't know. I didn't know what to do. I would never let this guy in my house.

12:09Or my children if I felt like he was, you know, what I'm saying going to hurt us or put me in a situation like that. Because all I have is my kids. If my kids don't have me, they don't have anybody. But if their daddies are in prison. I didn't even know that he was on probation or I've watched anything. I had nothing. He said. He said that he killed him. What happened next? He asked me to walk to the end of the road with him. And I walked down there and I started freaking out. Why did you freak out? Because he was laying there dead on the ground. Did you see what he... I mean, how did he kill him? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Okay, what happened next? He put him in the back of the car. And then he made me drive the car. And the back... I won't slow down. I'll slow down. Take you a breath. When you say in the back of the car...

13:10In the back of Ray's car. Like the back. Is that like... In a truck. Okay. Did you have to help the payment? No. Did you put him in there? He is. Okay. I'm not a bad person. I have nothing to say anymore. The reason we actually come down here, the reason you came down here on your own and we didn't go up there and kick in your door or nothing like that, is because we think you got caught up in a messed up situation. Okay. You got caught up in a bad situation and we're here to try and write that situation. Okay. So what happened after... He told me that I had to drive the car to Benzacol. I made me go down there and learn my kids up. And we had to drive the car to Benzacol. And then we went to the motel six and he made me go in there and get a room. Okay. And then when the next morning we woke up and he called my friend Lauren Rockwell.

14:11He come pick us up. She took us down to the Queen Mary down the road. And we got another room there. Well, we had to be out of there by 11 o'clock the next day. And I called Jean and told him that I didn't have no place to go so he could meet the kids coming out with him. And he said, yeah, well, Jean come up to... And one of his friends, I can't think of his name, come up to the room and to pick us up. Well, Zach was nowhere to be found. Me and Jean were sitting there and people down the hallway were causing problems or whatever. Where does Jean stay at? In Florida town. It's the same guy. Okay. From earlier, but... Hey, I was Lauren's phone number real quick. Oh. It works. I actually need to come give me my kids. And I get Zach was supposed to come with us.

15:11He told me it's walking down the hallway. Jean said he was ready to go. I called Lauren's phone. Tizzy said, Laura was going on pick him up later on. So I called to see if she was already there to pick him up. And he answered and said that he was gone. He left me in this hotel room and just left. Just left me in my kids. I'm out there at the end of the road. This is Byard Winthrop, founder of American Giant. We make all our clothing right here in the U.S. with American cotton and American workers. Get 20% off your first order when you use code giant20 at american-giant.com. Craving the coffee flavor you love. But without the caffeine, Kachava's got you covered with their newest coffee flavor. This all-in-one nutrition shake delivers bold, authentic flavor. Crafted from premium, decaffeinated Brazilian beans. Quality nutrition shouldn't be complicated. Just two scoops of Kachava's all-in-one nutrition shake and you've got 25 grams of protein, 6 grams of fiber, greens, and so much more.

16:12Whether you're craving that coffee taste to kickstart your morning ritual or as a nutrient-packed reward to round out your afternoon, Kachava keeps you fueled and satisfied wherever your day takes you. Plus, it actually tastes delicious. No fillers, no nonsense. Just the good stuff your body craves. And for the times you feel like switching it up, you've got seven flavors to choose from. All with the highest quality ingredients. Treat yourself to the flavor and nutrition your body craves. Go to Kachava.com and use code news. New customers get 15% off their first order. That's KAC, H-A-V-A.com code news. What were you wearing? You were in the wash machine, maybe put all the clothes in the wash machine in the house. You told me that if I didn't listen, then I'd be staring at the same walls. You'd be staring at the same cement walls. You'd be staring at. What did you have on?

17:12What were you wearing? I can't hear it specifically. Remember. You're making too much. I know, I know, I know. Hey, I come here. You go by devil in the end. You go by devil in the end. What you got to understand there is. You're doing right. I know you're scared. You're doing right, okay? And we're going to work through this. But we're just going to slow down. We're going to take a step by step. You understand, sir? Well, my question's okay. Look. You didn't kill that. You just told me he did, okay? I did. So you're going to help us make this situation right, correct? All right. What were you wearing then? I had a pink jacket on that. I had some pink in it. But honestly, I don't. I can't remember if I had pants on or shorts on. Okay. That's fine.

18:12Do you remember what Zach was wearing? Yes, he had on my ex-boyfriend's jacket and his shoes. What kind of jacket was that? I'm a black jacket and a black pair. Like he's the didn't even belong to him. All right. Do you know where he put that? No. Okay. The black jacket. What type of jacket was? Are we talking leather or like a. It's like a work. Kind of jacket. Okay. Like a work jacket. The clothes that he had on underneath it. Okay. I think it was a blue shirt or something. I'm not sure if my mom's even done laundry or anything. Everything might still be back there in the wash machine. You don't mean that. I'd better go put everything in the wash machine. And I was scared. I didn't know what to do. I was just listening to what I was told. I'm not in situations like that. What was the conversation when you were driving a. Up to the hotel. But I better listen to him.

19:12And that it's my fault to you because I had something to do with it. And if anything happens, I'll go to jail and they'll go to jail. And I will be away from my kids forever. Leon. What this boy has done. I know. It's put you in a bad situation. I know. And he's trying to make you feel responsible for it. But you're not responsible for his actions. Are you? No, if that would. And he hasn't. That's why my best friend's dad. I would. I would want somebody to do that to my dad, you know. And what has done to you in fair? Is it? No, it's not. He did this. And then he left me. So what we're going to do is we just got a couple more questions. We're going to work through. Okay. The. You said. You drove or Ray went to take you to the store. What store was it? The top number. The end of the road. I think. Uh-huh. Don't worry.

20:12Mom will work. Okay. And Zach was in the back to see. Okay. What Ray had a cell phone. He threw. There was a cell phone in the laptop in the car. And he threw the laptop. And the cell phone out of the window going to the road. You know about where. Yeah. He took this. It's somewhere down 29. It wasn't far from the. He gave me a cigarette pack that had everything that was in his wallet. And you made me throw it out the window. Okay. So this was on 29. Mm-hmm. Not far from the. Okay. So you throw it out the driver's side. I didn't touch it. Okay. Was it thrown out the driver's side? No. The passenger's side. Okay. Was it really cash? Yeah. Yeah. How do you know how much? I know. We had a couple hundred dollar bills. But he'd love me. I didn't. I didn't know how much money. He didn't leave me anything. Whenever he left, he didn't give me a dollar.

21:12That's right. Was there anything? Was there any Apple iPod or anything like that? I didn't see an iPod. And you and Ray have never had any kind of relationship whatsoever. Okay. He's always hit on me. Because he told me he was like, I left my. My. My daughter and my. My girl. But I'm asleep to come see you. And I was like, why do you want to do that? I'm only 23 years old. You know, I'm 23 years old and July. It's my friend's dad. That's weird. It's creepy. Did you and him have to take anything out of the trunk to put Ray in there? I did not touch anything in the trunk. Did he take anything out of the trunk? Yeah. I think there was. Well, there was like a propane thing. But I'm not sure. Because whenever I seen the propane bottle, it was in the back of the truck. Back of the car. I didn't see anything in the. In the back of the car. And he told me not to go around there and look. Don't go around the back of the car and look at anything. Okay. The. Um. So when you went, when you saw it, where was that?

22:13The propane bottle. Whenever he was making me like, my kids up. Okay. That was it. I could bring my kids with me through all that. That's not fair. It's not fair to you. You have been treated back. You're very good. We're here to treat you right. We're here to treat you right. We're here to treat you right. And we're here to work through this. Okay. Let me ask you a question. Um. The. The jacket and shoes that were your ex-boyfriends. Uh-huh. Were there any other clothes your ex-boyfriends that Zach was using? You know anything about a set of, uh, coveralls. No, I did not see any coveralls. I did not see what went in the bag of the truck and what came up. I tried and see what he took out and see any of that. He was having me run around and go get him spray bottles and put the clothes up and everything. When he was out there doing whatever he was doing, I was freaking out.

23:17I didn't know what you had. I was scared. I was like, you know, go tell my parents or to call or anything. I've never been in any kind of situation like that. Did he use the water hose in your home? Yeah. What did he use that for? To spray the car off. Do you know if he sprayed right now? Yeah. Because whenever I walked outside, he had the trunk open. He had the water hose at the trunk. And he told me not to come back there. asked this, did he shoot Ray? I don't, he didn't have, I mean, I don't know, I don't know to do like I thought I did. Let me ask you this. You said that you had to go down to the end of the room. Where exactly are you talking about? Are you talking about out at Highway 97? No, at the end of our driveway, just about behind. You guys come to the house, right? That boat? Okay, at the back of the boat, the car was parked right there. Okay, because that's where you

24:22said you get the cell phone service? Well, no, we had to walk way down the road to get the cell phone service. But, but whenever I told him he had to leave, I guess Zach had left, whenever I told him he had to leave and walk through the woods. And I guess when Ray was backing up for something, he didn't tell me anything. I wouldn't, I wouldn't have let that happen in my house, I'm like, hey, do you know? What, what do you mean by he walked through the woods? I thought Zach was with Ray. No, Zach walked through the woods. Okay, give me a favor, I'm sorry, I'm just a little confused. I know, I'm confused too. Okay, just like I said, we're going to take this step by step, okay? Land, look at me. You're doing right here. You're really hard. Okay, you got put in a bad situation and we're making it right, right? So y'all went up to the store. We went to the store. Who all went in the store? Um, just me. Okay. And Ray and Zach sat outside in the car.

25:23Okay, when you left the store, where'd you go? Home, we pulled all the way into my driveway. Okay, I went inside and go check on my kids and like I said, my kid grew awake. So I'd text and raise phone telling him that my kids were awake and I went to come back out there, you know, until tell Zach to come back inside. Well, I guess when Ray left, Zach walked down that to side of the woods and so did Zach come back to the house? Yeah, because I was calling, you know, raised phone about it. I didn't know what was going on, so I called nobody answered. So I went to go walk to the road and he come running up to the road. Tell me you need me to come down there earlier. We're jumping ahead. Okay. And I'm sorry. And I know, I know, I know this is a very emotional time and a very hard time. I'm not trying to lie to you guys. I know, I know, I know the truth. You know, give me a fake. You leave the

26:26tom phone. You get back to the house. You go inside and check on your kids. Does that come back to the house? No, I know he did it. Okay, a little bit ago, you said something about Zach said he was going to try and robber him. I'm so confused. I don't. Okay, I'm so confused. Take a deep breath. Okay. When did that conversation happen? I'm trying to think it was so many days ago and I've just been really stressed out. I think he got, he said he was going to robber when he got mad because I told him that what he was saying to me, you know, trying to stick his hands on my pants and the stuff that he said to me at the pizza place and the stuff that he said to me before, you know, and every

27:28thought because he's never really called just to compensate unless, you know, I ask about his stories, always say things to me, always. And he made me feel uncomfortable, but I mean, yeah, I went to the store on the way back from the store. Is that when you went into check on your kids? Whenever we got back to the store, we didn't check on your kids. Okay, was it any time around the end that you went back outside and he told you that he was going to rob him? I never went back outside. I text Ray's phone and told Ray to tell Zach to come here. Okay. And he said he come inside and said that he was going to do it. And I don't know, my kids live here, you know. And that was after you went to the store? After we had went to the store. See, I don't know what they communicated about while I was in the store, you know? Right. But so you came back from the store, you went inside,

28:32check on your kids, and then Zach came in and told you that. Yeah, and I don't know how to do that. This is my house, my kids live here, whatever. Where does that go from there? I guess he, he want, I told Ray to leave and when Ray left, I guess Zach left before Ray did her something because I was, I had a, I was uncomfortable. So I stayed inside away, you know, because I don't want no part of anything. I could be part of, you know, jump back to something. I asked you if he shot Ray. Do you know if he shot him? I did not hear any. Did he tell you how he did it? No, he did. I didn't, I didn't ask questions. Did you see, did you see a baseball batter ranch and I for screwdriver? I did not see anything. Okay. I didn't hear anything. I didn't see anything. I don't, I didn't ask any questions because I was scared. You know, if you can do that to him,

29:32why wouldn't you do that to me and my kids? You know, how long have you known? I'm known for a few years. He's always been in and out of jail. And then, you know, we hung out one time and after that, he told me that he wanted to come stay a week or so at my house. So I let him come stay. You know, he just got out of jail and figured he'd get out of jail and already have warrants again to go back to jail, you know. Is, is he, did he take, he was wounded? No, my mom told me that, I guess somebody I mentioned to them that he had warrants or whatever. And I wouldn't have let that in my house. Craving the coffee flavor you love. But without the caffeine, Kachava's got you covered with their newest coffee flavor. This all-in-one nutrition shake delivers bold, authentic flavor, crafted from premium, decaffeinated Brazilian beans. Quality nutrition shouldn't be complicated. Just two scoops of Kachava's all-in-one nutrition shake and you've got 25 grams of protein, six grams of fiber, greens, and so much more. Whether you're craving that coffee taste to kickstart

30:36your morning ritual or as a nutrient-packed reward to round out your afternoon, Kachava keeps you fueled and satisfied wherever your day takes you. Plus, it actually tastes delicious. No fillers, no nonsense. Just the good stuff, your body craves. And for the times you feel like switching it up, you've got seven flavors to choose from, all with the highest quality ingredients. Treat yourself to the flavor and nutrition your body craves. Go to Kachava.com and use code news. New customers get 15% off their first order. That's KAC-HAVA.com code news. Nicole hosts Easter every year. That's why she shops at BJ's wholesale club, stocking up on spiral ham, baked goods, fresh flowers, candy, and five dozen eggs. I've got a lot of baskets to fill. Nicole's not worried because she knows she can save big and get it all done in one trip. It's like winning the Easter egg hunt. When you save everyone wins. Get a $15 digital coupon when you spend $150 in one transaction now through April 5th. Visit BJ's.com slash Easter coupon for details. BJ's your Easter destination.

31:42So you drove back to the hotel. On the way to the hotel, you drive down 97, you turn on 29, okay? You said you went a little bit past the time and then he threw a laptop and he fell for it on the passenger's side. Okay, cigarette pack with the other side. Yeah, he gave me the cigarette pack that had all bunch of, I guess, so security cards or whatever in it. And he told me to throw them out of my side, which was on the driver's side. I don't even have a driver's license. I'm not, I don't, my kids are in the bag, you know, I don't risk my kids. So did you throw them out? Yes, I threw the cigarette pack out because I was told to. On the driver's side. On the driver's side. Is that around the same area as the laptops? Okay. Do you know if you had made it to the old, did you know if you had made it to any of those little restaurants on the right, yeah? Down the hill? I'm not sure. I was paying straight. I wasn't even conversating. I was really scared. I was just looking straight in front of me.

32:43If you ask me to do something, I did it. You know. Okay. You're driving down 29, okay? Tell me the route you took. Okay. You think. I think, see, I don't really know my way around. It's cool. I'll like, you know, he's, we'll let me back to him decided to go to that hotel. He did. Did there was any reason why? Okay. He told me to go that hotel and then we, he made it park, pull the car out, but I, and you know, where you go check in at and there was the one I walked in, I seen the, the cave right there and I'm pretty sure the cave was seeing the car and we could out the car, you know, and while I was in there, I answered, you know, if I could fill out an application, you know, and I found an application for a job. You did fill out one? Yeah, I did. Okay. When you got back in the car, I pulled around and parked where he told me to park at on the side

33:44of the thing and I got my kids out and directly into the room and I never went back out. Okay. I don't want to get a gel. You might bring you some water or something. Am I going to gel? I don't know. We're, that's what we're trying to figure out. We're, I tell you. I know, but let me tell you what's important. All right. The important thing is heal. That's who we're looking to get a hold of. Okay. Okay. I'll tell you any place that you can be at. And we'll think, and we'll think of the thing to, hey, do you feel better yet? Yeah. I just wait up. Okay. Okay. Give me one second. Okay. Okay. I'm going to recap all the things when you're real quick. Okay. Good.

34:45All right. It's okay. You walk up, you go up there to the car at the end of the road. I guess that's by the boat where it happened to you. What are you doing while he puts ray in the back of the toe? I'm just standing there. I was in shock. Okay. He was, did you put your clothes in the wash machine? Why? Because you don't do. Did you have blood on? I got a new love, but there was, it was all over the car. Why was, did you get in the car and go back to the house? No. I walked back onto the house. So he drove the car down there? No. Ray drove the car down there. Because we remember Ray was leaving. No, no, no. After, after, after Ray got killed. Okay. Was he put in the trunk? Yes. Did the car go back to your house? Yes. Okay. How did it get back to your house?

35:47Yes. Okay. He drove, was Ray in the car when he killed him? Or was he standing out of the car? I don't know. I was down there and I didn't ask any questions. None whatsoever. Nope. I mean, I seen blood all over the side of the car and I seen Ray laying on the ground. On what side? The driver's side. Okay. Was it on the inside or outside of the car? It was everywhere. Okay. It's everywhere. Okay. And now, let me just, I know this is rough. Sorry, I don't mean death, but I just was it like along the side of the car or was it just right there by the door? It was all over the place. All over the place. I've never seen anything like that. Did Zach have blood all over him? Yes, but I didn't notice that he had blood until we were at the end of the driveway. I didn't know what had happened until we got down there and I seen Ray laying on the ground. Whenever I was, you know, when I was scared and I was going to see what

36:49the hell is going on. Where did you see blood on him, man? Some days you want a little extra oomph to your usual look, whether that's lashes for days with the viral liquid lash extensions mascara or awakening your eyes with a lasting lift and soft color with the brilliant eye brighter. Thrive cosmetics is your go-to when you want to amplify your everyday look, whether you want a simple just got to get out of the door routine or full glam. You'll always look and feel like the best version of yourself with Thrive Cosmetics. Plus, every product is 100% vegan, cruelty free, and made with clean skin loving ingredients that work with your skin, not against it. And for every product purchased, Thrive Cosmetics donates to help communities thrive. So every time you use your favorite Thrive Cosmetics product, you're helping communities you care about too. Amplify your everyday. Go to thrivecosmetics.com slash shine 26 for an exclusive offer of 20% off your first order. That's Thrive Cosmetics. C-A-U-S-E-M-E-T-I-C-S.com slash shine 26.

37:53Finding great candidates to hire can be like, well, trying to find a needle in a haystack. Sure, you can post your job to some job board, but then all you can do is hope the right person comes along, which is why you should try Zip Recruiter for free at ziprecruiter.com slash zip. Zip Recruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding you. It finds them for you. It's powerful technology identifies people with the right experience and actively invites them to apply to your job. You get qualified candidates fast. So while other companies might deliver a lot of hey, Zip Recruiter finds you what you're looking for. The needle in the haystack. C-Y-4 out of five employers who post a job on Zip Recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Zip Recruiter, the smartest way to hire. And right now, you can try Zip Recruiter for free. That's right. Free at ziprecruiter.com slash zip. That ziprecruiter.com slash zip ziprecruiter.com slash zip. On that? Yeah. When he showed me his hands when we got into the

38:56light and I just started freaking out. I was like, oh my god. Oh my god. I just felt like I was going to have an anxiety attack. Like it was it's so scary. I want to backup something he just said. He said, you walked out to where the car was and you said, right, was laying on the ground? Where at? Everything the driver. No, but I mean, was it where was it in reference to where the car was? He was laying on the driver's side on the ground. Okay. And whenever I walked down there, you're still making noises. What kind of noises? I mean, was it was he crying or? Kind of. It really scared me. Okay. Really, really scared me. What did what did Zach say about him making noises? Just ignore it. What did Zach do next? Why they were still making noises? Did he make noises with his y'all traffic back?

39:57I was I was trying to block everything out. But did you hear anything? I didn't hear anything. While Zach was in, what was Ray wearing? When I seen him, no matter if fact, when we was leaving, when we was pulling out the driveway after we loaded everything up together with hotel, there was a red shirt on the side. Did you guys find any shirt or anything? A red shirt on the side of the road? There was a red shirt on the side of the driveway. I guess where they had, you know, everything had went down and I was like, okay, what is that? And he got out of the car and he picked the shirt up where the shirt went there. I don't know. You sure get back in the car? Yes, this. So Ray brought the shirt into the car? Right. No, Zach. Yes, he brought the shirt back into the car and where it went after that. I don't know. Did he come back into your house after y'all picked up the shirt or was that when you were leaving? You were really leaving. Oh god. He got out of the car. He made me stop. He made me stop. He made me stop and he dropped his feet and

41:02we were talking about the blood. That was new ground. He dropped his feet. He tried to cover the blood with his feet, you know, with the dirt around the cover of the blood. He kept telling me, I was going to be okay. We're in the country. They're going to think this is dead animal or something. When y'all checked in the room, what was the conversation? I tried not. I didn't speak to him. I was really scared. He had to say something though. It's just, oh, nothing better not go, you know, between. He said, what now? Nothing better not leave us. It stays between us. Okay. What else? Okay. And I better keep my mouth shut or... Or what? He killed me too. Yeah. He's pulled one of his ex-girlfriends that before. And she called Toby that he told her that. So when he said it to me, you know, I believed it. I don't like guys around my kids because they have dads, you know what I'm saying? And I'm not just respectful of that. And if I felt uncomfortable, I would not have let him

42:07come near my children. And he never described how he killed him? No, I didn't. I didn't want to know. Did you see any... When y'all got back to the hotel, the motel six, did you see any knives or anything like that? You ever known him to carry a knife? No. But the thing I'm a little confused about. Who was texting Ray? Who was texting Ray? I sent... me. I was telling him that, you know, my kids were awake and he had to leave. Because I was inside with the telephone. Okay. And I guess he had a phone outside the car. Sacking him or sitting outside the car. Okay. How about... How about earlier? I might have texted him. I might have texted him or he might have texted me or something, but I really can't remember. What point did Zack start talking about Robin Ray? Well, we had been out there. I guess he had bought him a couple of beers or whatever.

43:09And he was okay until he drank his alcohol and then after he started drinking alcohol, and then we started talking really stupid. He wanted to do stupid stuff and not... Who was talking stupid? Zack. Like, you know, he wanted to rob him whatever I was like, I don't know, doing that. You know, I live here. Did he mention that at all when y'all left little seizures? Never was brought up. The reason I brought up because I was... We were discussing how, you know, he made me feel uncomfortable on stuff around then. But the reason I didn't talk to him is so that I didn't have to feel uncomfortable, you know. But... So when you... You said the reason y'all talked about it because it made you uncomfortable talking about robbing him? No, he made me feel uncomfortable with me and Zack were discussing, you know, how Ray made me feel uncomfortable when he looked at me or talked to me and stuff. And then that's when Zack, you know, I guess he got mad because of the things that he was saying to him or whatever and then he had... When we had got back home, he had mentioned robbing them.

44:10Okay, that was before Ray, he came out there. Right. Okay. And I told... I was like, and now my kids live here, you know, it's my friend's dad at... Okay, at that point, what did Zack tell you to do? He told me to call him... Call him, see if you'll come out, remember? Okay, and he wanted him to come out there because... I guess he wanted to rob him. Okay, so did you call him or did you text him? Um, I'm not sure if I called or text because he was like, he made me play along like this story. Like, oh, get him out here and this, that and that and that and that. Uh-huh, let's back up instead of this and the other. What exactly did he say? He told me to get him out there so that he could take his money in that I'd better do it or... I was just chilling, I was told to do. He'd better do it or what? Are he was going to hurt me too? And he... did he tell you that? Yes, Zack told me that. Okay. I mean, one of his ex-girlfriends told me that he's throwing a killer before him. I don't know, I'm talking about you and him right now, okay? He told you if you didn't do it, what?

45:12He would hurt me and you... Okay. What did you text or did you call him? I can't, I can't remember. Yeah, well, you said you were supposed to play along and blah, blah, blah. What were you supposed to play along and say? We were in the middle of, you know, we'd text and then we'd call out. I was supposed to tell him to come back out there and hang out with me. And remember, he'd come back out there and he knew me. I went inside because my kids woke up and as soon as I said they had to go. So are you the one that sent the text that said, when are you going to come up here and see me? Mm-hmm. I have, I mean, it's not really, you know, much, but I do have some Facebook messages from Ray from before. From before? From, I mean, from like a mother's show ago. But I mean, I'm not sure if it's helping. What do I mean? What is he talking about in those messages? It's actually one of them's where he got my phone number and I gave him. He asked me for my phone number and I gave him my phone number, because you know, yet he'd never really ever said anything out of the way to me before.

46:17And then I guess you got a little bit uncomfortable around me because I always asked about his daughter, you know. I mean, she is. Does he know that Zach's your ward friend? What does he think Zach is? He was just a friend. Can he try to stick his hands down your pants with Zach in the car? In the back seat, yeah. Where were you at? In the front seat. So while Zach's sitting in the back seat, he's driving, reaching over across far one. Does that say anything then? Nope. What did you say to? I told him, please stop touching me, you know. He kind of made me feel uncomfortable, but. Did he stop? No. Huh? No, and like, I mean, I don't know if that's what made Zach mad. And like, I mean, I don't know if that's what made Zach mad or, or I was, I mean. So, so what happened? I guess I didn't even say anything because I was scared to say something about touching me.

47:18I don't know. I thought that's what I was supposed to be doing, you know. Like he made me get this guy over here. So that's where you'd lead him right on? That's what I was supposed to be doing. That's what I was told to do. Okay. So. But nothing was, I told him, I told him, I told him to lead because I was. So the, the plan was to rob him. Is that, that it? That was Zach's plan, yeah. Okay, and you were to go along with it. Okay, so why, if you were going along with it, why were you all going to the store? Where was the robbery supposed to take place there? At, at the end of my driveway, where it happened, I guess. So why did y'all drive to the store? Because Zach asked him to take him to the store to go get a reload because he wanted to smoke. And he took him to the store.

48:19And then when we got back, it's whenever I, you know, I went inside and told him that, you know, my kids were awake. I didn't want that to happen. I never been in any way. So what happened on the way to the store? Oh, we, I mean, we just conversely, like everything was okay. You know, all three of us and he would reach over and rub my leg or try to stick his hand on my pants and, you know, I kind of closed my legs or, you know, let's please stop. You got to have to forgive me here. Okay, I'm a little confused because the second to go, when we talk, when I asked you, I said, were you leading Ray on and you said, that's what I was supposed to do. Warning, the following Zippercruder radio spot you are about to hear is going to be filled with F words. When you're hiring, we at Zippercruder know you can feel frustrated. For Lauren, even, like your efforts are futile and you can spend a fortune trying to find fabulous people, only to get flooded with candidates who are just fine.

49:21Fortunately, Zippercruder figured out how to fix all that. And right now, you can try Zippercruder for free at zippercruder.com slash zip. With Zippercruder, you can forget your frustrations because we find the right people for your roles fast, which is our absolute favorite F word. In fact, four out of five employers who post on Zippercruder get a quality candidate within the first day. Fantastic. So, whether you need to hire four, 40 or 400 people, get ready to meet first rate talent. Just go to zippercruder.com slash zip to try Zippercruder for free. Don't forget that zippercruder.com slash zip. Finally, that zippercruder.com slash zip. Warning, the following Zippercruder radio spot you are about to hear is going to be filled with F words. When you're hiring, we at Zippercruder know you can feel frustrated. For Lauren, even, like your efforts are futile and you can spend a fortune trying to find fabulous people, only to get flooded with candidates who are just fine.

50:21Fortunately, Zippercruder figured out how to fix all that. And right now, you can try Zippercruder for free at zippercruder.com slash zip. With Zippercruder, you can forget your frustrations because we find the right people for your roles fast, which is our absolute favorite F word. In fact, four out of five employers who post on Zippercruder get a quality candidate within the first day. Fantastic. So, whether you need to hire four, 40 or 400 people, get ready to meet first rate talent. Just go to zippercruder.com slash zip to try Zippercruder for free. Don't forget that zippercruder.com slash zip. Finally, that zippercruder.com slash zip. Zach told me to get him over there and later on in that he was going to rob him and that everything was going to be okay. I didn't... Harry's but where he says the lady moan. That's what he said, yes.

51:23And then I went and saw it because I didn't want that to happen. Had you promised him to... Yeah. Did you ever talk about it? No. It was never discussed. He kept trying to get me going back outside and hang out with him by myself without Zach being there. But I didn't... I don't want to go hang out with him by myself, you know? I didn't want anything to happen, so I went inside my kids. If the plan was to rob him, what were you supposed to, what was that going to rob him with? He never told me. He never told me. I never asked questions. I didn't know if I was supposed to ask or if I wasn't supposed to ask. But you knew he was going to rob him. Yeah, he's always going to rob him, but... And you knew he was going to do it? I didn't think he was going to do it. No, I didn't... Honestly, to God, I did not think that it was... You still called him to come up there, and you still flirted with him. You played along with it. Right, and then I... You know, I got a weird feeling or whatever, and I was like, I don't want to do this, and I went inside, and that's when I text Ray and said,

52:27my kids are away, you got to leave. Well, is he supposed to rob him before he all got to the store? Did something happen when word of the time got changed, don't I? I guess we did... I'm not sure... I mean, I know I think he wanted us to ride so that I guess Ray would be comfortable around him. So he rode with him, he'd be okay. You know, he'd be comfortable because he knows me really doesn't know him. Mid-Zack walked through the woods, or did Zack tell him he needed a ride when he was leaving? He walked through the woods. No, no, he walked up the driveway. He walked up the driveway.

53:31Excuse me, I know I said earlier that he walked through the woods, but to right now he walked up the driveway. Okay, if he walked up the driveway, have Ray already left? Yeah, he was parked at the end of the driveway, calling my phone, asking me if he could come back, and I was telling him no. Did you tell him he could sleep on the couch? No, I told Zack that he could sleep on the couch, because Ray just thought me and Zack were friends. He didn't know that we were boyfriend and girlfriend at the time. Why did you text Ray's phone and say you can sleep on the couch? Just in case you don't understand, we've got all the text messages. I know, and that's what Zack told me that I was going to, you're going to go down with our list because they have all of his cell phone information stuff.

54:31I need you to listen, okay. Why did you text Ray and tell him he could sleep on the couch? I didn't tell Ray he could sleep on the couch. Why did that text message come into Ray's phone from your phone? I texted, said that Zack could come sleep on the couch. Why would you tell Ray that Zack could sleep on the couch if Zack is not with Ray? Because Zack told Ray that he got locked out of his house, and that we, you know, he lived down the road, we weren't boyfriend and girlfriend, we were just friends. So I texted, said, tell Zack you can come sleep on the couch, and then Ray kept trying to give me come back outside. So, was Zack going to take him somewhere? Or was Ray going to take Zack somewhere? So, when you're texting Ray, that this is part of the plan, tell Zack to come in, he could sleep on the couch,

55:33things like that. Is that what I'm understanding? No, this is when I'm, I don't want this to happen. So I'm telling Ray to tell Zack to come inside, so I can tell Zack, please, you know, don't, please don't do this. I don't want it to happen. But you're still playing along like he's just a friend from up the road. Yeah, because I didn't want Ray to, you know, be suspicious and stuff like that. But you knew right then that he was fixing a robber. You knew that was when it was going to take place? Not right, that's like that. I didn't think. But you knew it was coming. I knew it was going to come, but I think a lot of what's happening. Listen to me, okay? I'm not scared. That's what's happening to me. Listen to me. Leann, take your head out of your hands and look at me. Sit up, sit up, okay? Like this man told you, the best thing that you can do for you and your family is to come in here, shoot us straight and tell the truth. I'm trying. The reason you're getting so confused right now is because I think you're trying to tell

56:36the version of the story that sounds best for Leann. Now, I'll tell you, being in this room, you can tell a thousand truths. All of that help can get destroyed by one line. I know. I'm just trying to tell you the best way that I can. Leann. I'm really scared by Leann. I know. I know. I know. Leann, look at me, Leann. What you need to understand is, is that if you come in here and tell us the truth about everything but leave out details, what does all that mean? What does all that do for Leann? Nothing. You're right? No, I'm not. Then it's time to sit here.

57:38It's time to be grown. Okay. It's time to tell the whole truth, because that's the best thing for you and your family. We're going to get it before we leave here today. We might as well go ahead and get it to first time. Okay. I'm sorry. Where did you lead us astray yet? My brains are scattered. I'm just trying to put everything together. You know what's what? Let's get to it. Okay. You know where you walked off the wrong. Into the road. So tell us let's just start from there. I was told to get way to the house so that he could brought them. I don't know. I don't know. I can't. Just say it. I don't know, but he was supposed to ride off of him, or if it was going to happen right there, you know, but I'm just trying to remember.

58:39It still happens so fast. Leigh Ann, you're coming so close to saying it, and you're just not. Just do us a favor, okay? Say it. Speak it. I remember I'm still in my leave. You remember I said, I walked up the driveway versus anyone who knew the one, but he really did walk up the driveway. Okay. Well, I kept calling right's phone, because I didn't, you know, tell us that you come here, because I was trying to prevent anything from happening. Well, they stopped answering. And it scared me. I hear, I didn't hear no noises at all. So I started walking up the driveway. And then as I'm walking up the driveway, Zach comes back and he's like, I need you to come down to help me. I need you to come down to help me. Please don't freak out. Please don't freak out. But as soon as we got into the light,

59:40he showed me the blood all over his hands. And then when we got to the driveway, I seen blood everywhere, and I couldn't do it. Couldn't. I just stood there. I was like a shock. What happened next? I walked. I walked back to the house. Why he drove back to the house after he put the rain in the trunk. Did you see him put rain in the trunk? He was very still moving. He put him in the trunk by his seal. He was sure. Yeah. I couldn't, I was like traumatized. I was in shock. Okay. I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't do it. And that was the whole reason you wanted me to go up there with scalp and I could. And you saw no weapon. I seen no weapon. Okay. But I seen blood everywhere. And you see where Ray was hurting?

1:00:42I wasn't trying to look. I knew you were trying to look. Did you see where Ray was hurting? No, I didn't. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't want to see it. That's good. So the bottom line is when Ray was leaving, you knew that that's when he was going to rob him. Yeah, I knew that he was going to rob him, but I did not know that it was going to happen like that. Why was you brought? I didn't want that. Ray up there. So Zach could rob him. I told him not to do it. What would you want me to do it? Who did not want it? I'm very good. What was your reason for texting Ray to come out there? Because that told me to. To get him out there. Okay, to rob him. Right. Okay. So you knew when you texted him the reason he was coming was to be robbed. Yeah, but I try to prevent it anyway. But that's the reason we're both full. But but you're missing what I'm saying. I know.

1:01:42That's the reason he came out there was so he could be robbed. Right. Is that a yes? Zach never mentioned one time killing him. He went and got one of my dad's tools and said he was going to hit him in the head with it. I'm not sure where this. What kind of tool is it? You know how an air compressor goes today into this long thing like that. It's one of them. Where's that at? I don't know. And he might have put it back inside. He might have threw up. You know, he might have sposed it. Where did he get the tool from? My dad's tools that were outside. I don't need to shed. The shed is up by the bottom. No, the one right beside the house. And when was that? Before Ray got there? Okay, says before Ray got there, he went and got that tool and say it was going to hit Ray in the head with it. Ray gets there. Y'all ride up to the store. And you're playing along. You knew it was going to happen. Okay. I did not know it was going to happen like that.

1:02:44He didn't know he was going to get killed, but you knew he was going to rob it. Exactly. But I didn't want it to happen so that's why I told him to come inside. The natural 100% honest tree. There's no 100% honest tree. That's somebody's dad. I don't know what I do. Somebody said that my dad. What, robbing or killing? Killing, robbing both. Yeah, but I mean, you're, let's take the killing out of the equation. Okay. You didn't play any killing, but you'd play into robbing, right? Right. I had a bad feeling until I didn't want to do it. But you knew it was still going down, right? I thought maybe I could stop it by, you know, saying something, but my words don't work. But you knew when he went up the drive, why that it was, I mean, playing in motion, right? Huh? Kind of, but not that, not that way. I was really confused. Now you've listened. Now go to your thing. Warning. The following zippercruder radio spot you are about to hear is going to be filled with F words.

1:03:44When you're hiring, we at zippercruder know you can feel frustrated. For Lauren, even, like your efforts are futile. And you can spend a fortune trying to find fabulous people only to get flooded with candidates who are just fine. Fortunately, zippercruder figured out how to fix all that. And right now, you can try zippercruder for free at zippercruder.com slash zip. With zippercruder, you can forget your frustrations because we find the right people for your roles fast, which is our absolute favorite F word. In fact, four out of five employers who post on zippercruder get a quality candidate within the first day. Fantastic. So whether you need to hire four, 40, or 400 people, get ready to meet first rate talent. Just go to zippercruder.com slash zip to try zippercruder for free. Don't forget that zippercruder.com slash zip. Finally, that zippercruder.com slash zip. Finding great candidates to hire can be like, well, trying to find a needle in a haystack.

1:04:45Sure, you can post your job to some job board, but then all you can do is hope the right person comes along, which is why you should try zippercruder for free. At zippercruder.com slash zip. Zippercruder doesn't depend on candidates finding you. It finds them for you. It's powerful technology identifies people with the right experience and actively invites them to apply to your job. You get qualified candidates fast. So while other companies might deliver a lot of, hey, zippercruder finds you what you're looking for. The needle in the haystack. See why four out of five employers who post a job on zippercruder get a quality candidate within the first day. Zippercruder, the smartest way to hire. And right now, you can try zippercruder for free. That's right. Free at zippercruder.com slash zip. That zippercruder.com slash zip zippercruder.com slash zip.