Inside Ohio State spring practice No. 4: Matt Patricia adjusting, how Buckeyes have an edge on Bama

0:00Bank of America champions everyone who dares to ask what would you like the power to do as a coach to 16 competitors in Augusta National Women's Amateurs. I ask myself this question every season to help my athletes keep their eye on the ball far beyond any course they play. Bank of America is proud to be a presenting partner of the Augusta National Women's Amateur. With its two juicy beef patties and three slices of melted cheese topped with tangy big arch sauce, the big arch is what happens when you start making a McDonald's burger and never stop. The big arch, the most McDonald's McDonald's burger yet for limited time. Welcome back to the Bill and Doug show, Doug Lamarice and Bill Landis after practice four. For the Ohio State Park Eyes of Spring football, we were there. We didn't get to watch on Thursday, we get to talk to people, we talked to Matt Patricia, the defensive coordinator,

1:02we talked to linebacker Garrett Stover, we talked to quarterback Jermaine Matthews, we talked to new transfer defensive tackle James Smith, I would like to announce a retirement. It is not my retirement, it is not Bill Rebinoitz's retirement, it is not Tim May's retirement, as much as some people may want those things. But it is the retirement of a line of questioning and we can talk about it later. I'm done. I did what I needed to do. It served its purpose. And now we will move forward. We can start with that Landis or we can talk about other things. Because I was getting nervous that I wasn't even going to get my question in, in its final moments to Matt Patricia, but I did. I interrupted him by accident in the middle of an answer to make sure I got it in. Because everybody is like, yeah, Mattie P, Mattie P, there's a lot of urgency. When you're talking to Mattie P these days, is there not people have things to say? People will ask Mattie P. So we're a little facetime with Mattie P. It's very rich. He's very rich. It's good to know rich people.

2:03So it was, I mean, Matt Patricia did a great job last year as the Ohio State Defense Quinter, indisputably. But it was like, Matt, why did you stay here? And he's like, man, I just don't want to move the family. And I wanted to just be like, what about the $1.5 million raise? $1.25 million raise. Like if you just love it here, just, then just love it. Love it for the same amount of money you made last year. It's fine. But we just can't we live in the world about it a little bit. I guess I'm sure he's, I'm sure it's true. He said he was like, I think it is true. But also you're making $700,000 more than any defense of coordinator in America. And if you just love the malls, maybe you'd stay for three bill, not 3.75. So like it's fine. There's nothing wrong with it. But we also, we have to be a little realistic about it. Don't we? Because he did say like he had other offers to get stuff out there. Yeah. I mean, you won't, you won't find the Matt Maddie P. Loves Columbus.

3:06We wasn't even a swell guy to stick around for his love of Columbus story on Bill and Doug's platforms. Find it elsewhere. Find it elsewhere. Which is fine. What's the talk ball? He did a good job. He does eat. I'm not saying he was on his own. He was. He did an excellent job. If you said, if I'm ever doing a press conference after I get a $1.25 million raise, guess what I'm talking about? The cash. Yeah. Yeah. What a boat. Yeah. There's a lot of construction in Columbus. But I could buy a boat. So that's why I stayed. So let's talk ball. Some interesting stuff about like guys in, guys out with the defense. I thought you had an interesting question about Orville Reese and his versatility last year. And is there somebody like that yet on this defense? And I'm kind of like then if not, then what? What did you think of Matt Patricia's answer to your question? I mean, he kind of didn't know. I guess he answered it. There's probably some truth in what he said. Like I am. I am a person who after the fourth spring, spring practice would

4:10like all of the schematic and personnel answers now, please. And like I get that that's kind of what spring is not about. At least not really what what early spring is about. So he said, basically, we don't know yet. I'm sure in the back of his mind, he has an idea. But he doesn't want to talk about that just yet because they're trying to whatever work on hand placement and feet and all that stuff. And they haven't even really begun tackling it. So they just have had hats on for two days now. So there there wasn't an answer. I think like when I asked that question that the two guys I had in my mind were Quaver saw and Christian Allegro do transfers. I think he could probably include Riley Petagion and TJ Alfred to returning sophomores in that conversation. And my assumption at the moment is that is they probably don't have that. Like the idea that you can go between a four down front and a five down front even spacing and odd spacing without having the substitute is quite the luxury. And Ohio State had it last year with our

5:15Valarice. And they may have it this year. We'll see what happens. But you don't just look at the roster and say like that's the guy who's going to do it. That's who's going to unlock that for Ohio State. So I'm on the quest to try to figure that out. I think there'll be more information to to glean in that regard when we talk with maybe like Larry Johnson and James Laurenidus here in the spring. Even if it's just like, you know, Quaver saw is not doing any linebacker stuff. Well, like that's kind of a clue. Like as we're or Christian Allegro is not doing any defensive line stuff. Those guys are quays with the deal I'm in Christians with the linebackers. And that's kind of what they're doing. It's like, okay, well, then maybe if we were having the wrong conversation here about these guys. So trying to figure that out. But but Matt Patricia on what's today? Thursday, uh, fourth, after the four spring practice was not ready to kind of go down that road just yet. Matt Patricia making, um, some comparisons between college and the NFL. I'm just saying like right in OTAs and stuff and the NFL that's maybe like a gradual progression into things. And he was saying like, he kind of go in college from winter workouts to pads on. Like there's

6:17right. There's two two days two practices of acclimation. And then it's go time. Yes. Yeah. Which is kind of it is kind of weird. It is like, I get it because you have there's such finite practice time in college. Um, that you just you want to get the pads on. You want to start playing football. But uh, it is kind of strange when you think about it that way. And there's there's more, um, freedom in the summer now. Like they're not, but if they're not like officially designated OTAs or whatever in the same way that the NFL does. But like there are opportunities to do those things in the summer without pads on. But I do think some of the stuff starts to come together. But yeah, spring football is not, uh, I don't know. It's just like, yeah, you kind of want to jump right into kind of molding young football players and not necessarily trying to throw the book at them in terms of everything you can do schematically, especially. And I'm sure this is why Ohio high state shoots do it. But like the way Ohio high state does it now with where Ohio state spring break falls academically. They always have two practices before spring break. And then they're

7:18out for a week and then they come back. So it's like winter workouts, two non padded practices, a week off. And then you come back and you're in pads. And that's the week where that we're in right now, right? And like that is like, like, here we are. It's football. And he was talking about the idea of trying to find the balance of it this time of year in college. Are you teaching scheme? Or are you teaching fundamentals? And he said, again, to your question, we're working on fundamentals right now. So we fell into the trap that we fall into occasionally, which is we were podcasting for free. Steven means three of us, you and I and Steven means we did it. We did it inside for a while. And then Marcus Hartman, we cut up with him outside and we're podcasting with Marcus Hartman. And it's just like, we got this a pain the bills. I'm not here. This is not pod friends. It's pod business. Although we love conversing with Steven means of Marcus Hartman.

8:19So we were having these conversations about this. And one of the things you said in one of those conversations was that you do think so the scheme really matters. And you said one thing you said is you could see them just doing more personnel packages this year if they don't have sort of the inherent versatility in some of the players. And then the other thing you said was that you think MatPatricia is a really good teacher. So please make some money for us by now telling it for cash to this podcast and YouTube audience. I do think that's probably MatPatricia's greatest strength, which is funny. Like, you know, given his reputation before he got to Ohio State, I don't know that you would assume that. But if you sort of like take a step back from that and think, well, like he coached under Bill Belichick, they are the most detailed franchise in the NFL. Like, of course, you have to be an excellent teacher. I think to thrive in a place like that. And some of that isn't formed by MatPatricia talking a lot about that when he was first introduced to us last year. I think like the idea of coming to this level and coaching guys at this stage and

9:20their football development was really enticing to him because you can really kind of get hands on and into the nitty gritty of just the finite detail or the minute details of playing football. And I think he's really good with that. And I think he's good with that like across the board. Like James Smith, we talked to on Thursday as well, the transfer of defensive lineman from Alabama was talking about MatPatricia and he said, it's kind of crazy how much MatPatricia knows about every position on the defense and how you can coach every position on the defense. And I don't know, you know, I think a lot of good football coaches can probably figure it out no matter which position group you throw them into. But that ability to roam around and speak the language of the different spots on the defense and get guys to understand it at a pretty high level. I do think is an incredibly important skill for a coach and Patricia seems to have that. And a lot of the guys we've talked to over the last year when they're sort of gushing about their relationship with MatPatricia, I think it stems from that. There's just a lot of hands on sort of like intimate coaching

10:24from the guy who's running the entire defense that I'm just not sure happens a lot at a lot of places because that's such a big job and there's so much on your plate. But MatPatricia really does seem to relish that part of the job. And I think because of that, you saw a defense that was incredibly detailed last year. And I would imagine we'll be so again this year, even if maybe some of the talent is not quite as high as it was in 2025. Right there are people who have PhDs and some of them are researchers and they're in the lab and they're kind of on their own and some of them are professors. And they're out interacting with students on a daily basis. And like again, you know, I think we're past drawing comparisons between MatPatricia and Jim Knowles, but Jim Knowles was a mad scientist like MatPatricia's a professor. And when you're a professor, you got the tweed jacket and you got the little patches on the sleeves and students can come down and talk to you after class and maybe you have office hours, right? And then like I don't know if you're one of those kind of professors, you go out maybe you see him at the bar and like you buy

11:25a drink for somebody, you gotta be careful. And like, but you're right, you're like, yeah, I'm a prick. Like I'm I'm part of this, right? I'm not just in the lab. And so I think we have proof of that. And I just it's interesting. We're going to write about this at the substack go go over there. Ha so much stuff over there. Bill and Doug go I shoot at substack.com. We had a pro day notebook that went up Thursday morning. We're going to write about iron buck guys. We're going to write about offensive line continuity. We're going to write about like, how many new players they have because people keep bringing it up and bringing it up. But I do think it's interesting for MatPatricia. They lost seven defensive starters from last year and a lot of the guys that are going to fill important roles weren't even on the team last year because of the number of guys they added in the portal. And that I think he has to sort of understand their fundamentals and understand them as a teacher and teach them almost before he gets to like and now how do we use them in the scheme. And that seems to be very clearly like where

12:28they are right now. I'm learning my students. And then it's like, well, do you have an R bell Reese? It's like, well, I know it'll have a somebody who's as skilled as R bell Reese. But like, let me see what these guys can do because did not he did he not have an answer about that today that he sort of said what I've always done is adjust to what my guys can do, right? That's how he has how he schemes up defense. Yeah, that was another question that I asked is because I'm just a little, I don't think we're going to see a defense on the field this fall that looks drastically different from what we saw last year. But there could be things here and there that you might have to tweak just based on when you have person always. So I just asked him sort of in his past how fluid has he been with that like year to year? I think I said like, do you let the person else speak to you before you decide on anything? And he said, like, yeah, you kind of have to. And he used it the comparison of the NFL where, you know, he was at the Patriots. Most years they were picking late. Sometimes there weren't maybe weren't quite as good. They were picking early. So like you get, you know, access to different players, different positions, different skill sets. And, you know, it's it's quite a different puzzle sort of year to year. And you do have to

13:34lean into strength. Like you're not every, I mean, every coach says it, right? You're not going to ask guys to do things that are not good at. So you have a vision for your roster build. And I think Ohio State has that. But you still don't really know until you start getting in practice and kind of getting your hands on guys. So they're very much, I think, in that space now. And I think, so they'll practice again on Saturday. Typically, that's a scrimmage day. There'll be a couple more scrimmage type days before the spring game. So I think I think that process starts to get expedited a little bit here, like moving forward from today. But up until this point, they've had two practices without pads and two practices with pads where they weren't tackling to the ground. So it's still a lot of kind of like whatever, let's get to know each other kind of practices before we start diving in on stuff. So we do a monthly Zoom call. We didn't quite do it every month when things were getting a little crazy. But over on our sub stack page, if you are like the top pay to be on the top tier,

14:36we call it the bad tier. You get like sort of a personalized Zoom call with us where we talk about some stuff. And we want to we want to give like bonus for those people who pay extra, you get more bonus stuff. So we had a call recently where we drafted like the best NFL players of the Ryan Day era, right? I drafted you drafted our intern Nick was there and then some of the other sub stack people, those top tier subscribers. And one of the thing we were talking about Pete Warner, Pete Warner got drafted in our draft. And we were talking about the idea that I said, Pete Warner to me was the player as a Buckeye who I had the most difficult time getting a handle on how good he was. And you said, I know how good he was. I don't know. I'm just so hard to do like you. And I was like, well, then why did you abandon me and stop working with me in the middle of Pete Warner's career? And you stopped telling me what to think of Pete Warner. But but the thing that you were saying about Pete Warner is that and this was very confusing to me, like RIP to the bullet, the most confusing and actually sort of unused position group. Other than what was the

15:38gym know, the jack, the jack slash Leo. Yeah. I've been to the Ben and Jerry's factory in Vermont and they give you a little tour there. You've been there. You've been there. I didn't go to the factory when I went to like their shop in Burlington. Yeah. So at the little thing we do the tour, they have a graveyard at the Ben and Jerry's factory where they have the the grave stones for the dead ice cream flavors that you can go through and be like, oh, yeah, I remember that. Like they don't make that one anymore. I would like a graveyard for dead Ohio state positions. It might just be the bullet and the jack. But here's my back. H back. H back. H back. Yeah. No, we can do full back. Frankly, right? We can we can kill all kinds of positions. Big thanks to our sponsor, Better Help for partnering with us for this important conversation about mental health. This Steve Smith here, former NFL Y receiver and host of the 89 show on

16:41YouTube. So having a counselor and working with Better Help, that gives you an opportunity to really start to unpack but people don't understand when you unpack things. You also open up a box that you're not always sure what's inside. So I think that's why seeing a professional is extremely important. If you need someone to open up to, visit BetterHelp. That's BetterHELP.com-89 to get started. If you work in university maintenance, Granger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Granger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place from HVAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more and all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRANGER, visit Granger.com or just out by Granger for the ones who get it done. Pete Warner was two things at once and like that's what you're saying it's just okay so he could

17:43be a strong safety or a Sam linebacker. But you didn't have to take him off the field. That was your point, right? That's part of Pete Warner's skill set that made him a second-round pick in the NFL. And so it was like is he the bullet or is he the Sam? It's like he's Pete Warner. Should have called it the Pete. Where Arval Reese and Caleb Downs at times last year playing two positions that Arval Reese is like he's a he's a linebacker and he's an edge rusher and sometimes Caleb Downs is a safety and he's a linebacker, right? Where there are times that maybe positionally where they lined up what they were asked to do in a certain situation maybe first down versus third down maybe run down versus pass down whatever where Caleb Downs and Arval Reese were actually doing two different things but there wasn't a positional name change because it's just the Arval and the Caleb but that we could see play out in actual packages in actual guys running on and off the field in order to do those things

18:46that Caleb and Arval did on their own. The same way that Pete Warner was one guy playing two positions sometimes where Arval and Caleb actually maybe playing two positions. I think so and there was like an interplay between the two I think a lot of the time where Ohio State would move would move Arval down to get the five man front and it's it is a it's a five one with the one linebacker but there's like kind of Caleb hovering down a little closer to the line of scrimmage to kind of pick up the some of the space that you've not given up by moving your wheel linebacker down down to the line of scrimmage. So I think probably in this in the safety room there are guys who can do some of that stuff a don't have to sub we'll see it sounds like they have probably four safeties that they think can play with gentlemen claim back to trade see the two transfers Terry Moore and Earl Little and then Leroy Roker so there could be some some substitution in packaging there. I think what's more interesting is what happens at that outside linebacker slash edge spot because I just I don't know like Christian Allegro played some up on

19:50the line it was cons of but not a ton and Quay Rousseau played some off the ball in Alabama and not a ton and I don't I don't know that either guy like like wants to be to got two positions at once so that that's that's what I'm interested in in terms of of the packaging like the does the five down front for Ohio State this year actually just have five defensive lineman or like last year it was four defensive lineman in our Valries. So and I think with some of the depth they potentially have maybe it will be just like actually five defensive lineman out there. So that's interesting that instead of like maybe you you keep your four defensive lineman on the field but on third Nate you bring in Quay Rousseau to line up outside attack all the way that Arvel did and it's like so who are you like are you are you taking a linebacker off the field like you said like you're a five one there but maybe Earl Little slides over yeah a little more line

20:51backery or Jalen McClain comes down as a little more linebackery or would you even like take Earl Little off the field and now you have Peyton Pearson Garrett Stover in the game at linebacker and Quay Rousseau as your edge guy and you're like you make three yeah all of a sudden you're making three substitutions on third down that last year like other than when they went to dime on pretty somewhat rare occasion right the the only exception that I can remember was like that Purdue game when they started to use Riley Pedagion on third down they were like kind of packaging things in that game but otherwise yeah they weren't like they weren't taking Arvel and Sunny off the field really. So but it feels like what Matt Patricia says he's doing right now is I'm teach we're doing fundamentals and I'm getting to know these guys and then once I figure out what they can do then I'll figure out what the scheme's going to be how much we might not the substitute if I do substitute who is it who's in who's out who's on the edge who's down who's back and it

21:53would make sense that he doesn't have a handle on that right now because they lost seven defensive starters and Earl Little and Terry Moore and Christian Allegro and James Smith and Quay Rousseau all these guys are new to this and he has to figure out what they can't and can't do John Walker yeah yeah John Walker and even like the the linebacker so I think what have some versatility who are back or are sophomores in them play a lot right like Riley Pedagion a teacher because it's not like I think the one thing we can assume is like they're not going to put Peyton Pierce at defensive end right so it's not I think we can we can scrap like that idea but then the rest of it does sort of feel like like anything's on the table and like I'm not saying that even in a way where like it's bad or they're not going to be able to figure it out I think they will I think it's actually interesting that they have I think kind of all these different pieces and could package things too and I think if I remember correctly like me Mappat Trisha might have might have talked about that a little bit last year and then I think maybe a similar thing to the Pete Warner situation happened or it's like well I don't have to do that because I got three guys

22:56on the field I can do whatever I ask them to do have multiple positions so it's like we're ready to rock and roll but that's I think it's kind of a rare thing to have so I'm I'm I'm excited to see where it goes like the fact that he it would have been great if you said like yep it's it's this this and this that's how we're going to attack it this year like great let's talk about it but the fact that he doesn't I don't see he doesn't know but he's not certain really about anything I think kind of makes spring a little more exciting now right is yeah we're we're going to have hopefully a couple of other times to watch and then we'll see what they choose to show in the spring game but just create some some different conversations now that I think could be kind of fun and interesting is we go through the rest of spring but far more huh interesting as opposed to oh no yeah very well for me anyway I got I don't I don't I don't understand that the information can hit people's ears differently but that I didn't hear mappoters to say that and be like oh no they got we're four practices in the spring and they got nothing like I don't I don't I think I think it's okay that they don't they don't have all the answers at the moment I mean the only

24:00oh no is watching Caleb Downs Arvel recent some of these styles I'll go on the top 10 picks draft like that's just a generalized oh no it is not a specific this defense is dead in 2026 oh no before we get to my thing about that Patricia and we actually want to talk about what James Smith said because James Smith burned down Alabama no he didn't but I hit my I wasn't he kind of did okay then I don't want to I don't want to get into trouble anything else about the ball talk with Patricia other than my question to cover just of like what yeah you know there I thought it was and I think it's okay like it was kind of general right it wasn't there was some of like what do you think of this guy what do you think of that guy there wasn't a ton of that because I do think there's just like getting a handle on what he thinks of the group is really important yeah I'm trying to remember what he said I thought the the way he talked about Earl little was interesting we've we've not talked to any safety yet we've not talked with Mcarrary or Tim Walton yet

25:01to get I think I like a little bit of a better handle on on how all that fits together but he said that Earl Little's around the ball a lot just sort of has that natural instinct instinct about him and that that to me is like I think I think he's talking like sort of like skill set and like intuition a little bit there but I also think maybe he's letting us in a little bit on where they're playing him or where they're thinking of playing him which is down closer to the line of scrimmage in a position to make more plays around the ball and I don't even know that it's a dime right I just really wonder if it's third and eight and clearly it's a passing down and a team has three receivers on the field including a wiggly little quick slot receivers or a little going to be on the field or I just really wonder because right that Lorenzo styles his speed it's just a different thing that I think you could trust that but I really it just like gets us back to talking about Jordan Thomas who we certainly enjoyed talking about the first week of practice is that where you go to Jermaine Matthew slides inside he's the

26:02passing down nickel in this situation and then your outside corners are Devon Sanchez and Jordan Thomas or whoever that third outside corner is and that you're looking Earl Little's off the field and it's not like it's not a dime because it's not 60b's but you're replacing your slot corner your nickel safety to get more coverage as opposed to the physicality around the ball kind of stuff whereas when it's Jordan Hancock in 2024 he's both of those right when it's Lorenzo styles maybe you're going to a dime look there and Lorenzo styles his plate is going back and somebody else is coming in there but I just I just don't and I don't know who I don't know the best example of like the wiggly slot receiver to talk about Oregon comes to mind with all they have back at receiver yeah and even it's one of those things if you would I mean we talked about it with Marvin so we'll talk about the Jeremiah it's like you trying to get matched up so you trying to put your best receiver in the slot on a certain play of Texas puts Kim Calhoun in the slot and it's like oh okay it's Kim Calhoun versus Earl Little on third and seventh I'm not sure

27:04the highest date once that right I think maybe you want three more cover guys I don't know and I don't want to I'm not that going to pretend I watched every Earl Little snap at Florida State when he was a safety but if if Matt Patricia's talking more about him being around the ball kind of guy I again it's another opportunity potentially for substitution in a different little bit of a different package yeah I think it is I would wonder if oh high-stake goes on that road maybe like J Tim and his freshman could factor into that too because he's uh I think he'll probably end up being like the backup nickel but he's he's maybe he'll has a little more corner skill to him than Earl Little might um so there are a lot of options there yeah you can move germane around I think so there's again like it could be I'm I was like driving back from interviews wondering if maybe and I like I hesitate to compare oh I say to Michigan because I know that annoys people like that Michigan defense in 2023 which it just played a lot of guys kind of like rotating packaging all

28:06that stuff um I wonder if Ohio State's defense might feel a little bit more like that this year because of the some of the things we're talking about right when talking we're going to burn down Bama sure okay so we'll start with this uh this was on late Wednesday Ryan Day doesn't tweet Ryan Day is not is not a supremely active tweeter uh let's see Ryan Day has tweeted one two three times in 2026 they're all retweets one of them was Wednesday night somebody tweeted from Alabama's pro day as we talked about uh we did a big pro day if you want to hear what we thought a pro day we did not do it on this youtube and podcast feed we did it for our sub stack subscribers over there again you're getting a deal right now 18% off an annual subscription if you go over and check out our sub stack is 10 bucks a month otherwise we did that for our sub stack subscribers but we talked about that Alabama Ohio State had their pro day on Wednesday and the same day and somebody tweeted from Alabama's pro day there's somebody retweet it Ryan

29:08Poles is the only GM to be at Tyler Simpson's pro day Alabama quarterback Tyler Simpson projected to be the second quarterback off the the board and the draft other teams have different personnel and attendants um there were more GMs there were more head coaches at Ohio State's pro day Lewis Riddick from ESPN who I wrote about this in our notebook there's a little bit of a controversy of of people comparing like Rval Reese Reese doing a bag drill compared to what Rubin Bane did it on Monday at Miami's pro day and Rubin Bane who had a thousand past rush snaps in college had more bend in the bag drill in Rval Reese who had 130 past rush snaps in college had less and so somebody was like look at this look at this bend and Lewis Riddick came out like with a bazooka and was like if you think that Rval Reese is not you should never evaluate like he was mad yeah and then and Lewis Riddick went on the ESPN and did a report that was like people are salivating over our Val Reese that's why he's gonna be a top three or four pick they're

30:09licking their chops to get a chance to draft this guy so anyway Lewis Riddick is on tilt a little bit he's mad about anyone who thought Ohio State didn't have a good pro day Lewis Riddick retweeted the thing about only one being a GM being at Alabama and he said because they were all here with the photo of the indoor field at the Woody so it's like there's nobody at Bama's pro day Lewis Riddick says it's because they're all here and Ryan Day retweeted it it's his third tweet of the year and Ryan Day retweeted it yep and it's what do you call like it's like it's like it's like tertiary throwing shade it's like third-level shade throwing it's like I didn't throw it here and it's a core tweet of a core tweet what do you I'm gonna you're amplifying someone else's shade yeah yeah it's a shade amplification but even that for Ryan Day is a little something isn't a little something certainly intent that intentional obviously you have to press the button

31:11to retweet it but like there was some thought behind it he wasn't just like oh someone saying something nice about our team like nope someone saying something nice about our team in comparison to Alabama bang bang and then James Smith the Alabama transfer showed up at the interview table after the fourth practice of spring ball for the buckais I was not there you were I was there um he so I'll the first thing he said it was like it was and I think I think I'm understanding what he said correctly and he like kind of he like flipped the SEC speed thing he said like you know well it kind of we weren't hard at Alabama I'm not saying we didn't and he and he sort of went out of the way to say like I'm not saying I'm not trying to say anything bad about Alabama but you asked me about Ohio State and like both places work hard but there's a different intensity at Ohio State and then he said like you know he said in the SEC like that the players maybe are a little bigger and slower and here it's faster and I was like what I don't think anyone has ever said that before

32:14but you've experienced both so who might I say you're wrong so his experience has been SEC big and slow four practices in the big 10 speed all over the place my new favorite buckai so I got to hang out with you Smith it was interesting I read an interesting article off of the combine uh the headline was SEC speed is dead sunny styles and our Val Reese buried it oh wait I wrote that uh so like walk aboard James Smith I would like to like pass this sword on to you music to my ears um and again I mean I don't know facts or facts and you just get a ball no or like James Smith and I like well who are who we'd argue with James Smith who's been it to preeminent programs now but he also made another comparison between Ohio State and Alabama yep he said when he visited Ohio State as a transfer this winter the the energy around that visit the conversations he

33:15had with people while he was in Columbus reminded him of his recruitment and freshman year at Alabama when Nick Saban was running the program just tough 24 hours for calendar board brother how much time it did see like yeah like James Smith was like uh he wasn't like Alabama sucks I'm glad I left that place but I think if you've like really wanted to like parse his words a little bit it was sort of like I signed up for one thing I ended up in a different thing and I came to Ohio State because it reminded me of the thing I signed up for um um hiring isn't just filling a role it's about finding people who can drive results indeed sponsor jobs helps you match with the right candidates faster target candidates by skills certifications or location join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs and listeners of this show will get a $75

34:19sponsor job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at indeed.com slash podcast terms and conditions apply hiring to it the right way with indeed when you manage procurement for multiple facilities every order matters but when it's for a hospital system they matter even more. Granger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays that's why Granger offers millions of products and fast dependable delivery so you can keep your facility stocked safe and running smoothly call 1-800-GRanger-click-granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones to get it done. We made a lot of Ryan Day and Nick Sabin comparisons last year like we've made a lot of comparisons about kind of Ohio State take Alabama's place in the sport uh Alabama's win total is 8.5 and it's not because they're schedule stuff so like I don't know what to tell you so um welcome James Smith welcome aboard to like this is the it's the place and let's not pretend like

35:23James Smith was not about his best player last year he didn't storm out of there because like I'm their best player and like how dare they they're not developing it's like he was fine and he came here so like you know we don't want to overdo it but uh interesting to hear hit you here did it as it happened as it hit your area definitely definitely did and and part of that discussion too was kind of the the feedback that he said Caleb Downs former teammate at Alabama relate to him about his experiences I don't think like comparing to do places necessarily just sort of like here's what Ohio State's about and James Smith I think like the a lot of what he heard and there was a previous relationship with Larry Johnson as well um he actually made he made it sound like so I guess James said that he has family who's from Cleveland and I think I think Larry Johnson maybe in that recruitment or maybe Ohio State generally in that recruitment he's from mobile Alabama or no he's from Montgomery Alabama James Smith is I think they they probably felt like they just didn't have a great

36:26shot to get him so I don't think they put kind of a full court press on him and James Smith sort of made it sound like maybe had Ohio State put the full court press on him he was probably a little more open to coming to Ohio State from the jump then maybe you would have assumed about a kid from Montgomery Alabama but I guess it all worked out at the end he's here no they're usually pretty good at that I think it's not the questionnaire that all recruits fill out do you have family in Ohio yeah I'm not I don't think there's an actual questionnaire but like they know there's a lot of like oh yeah my grandma lives here or a lot of like oh yeah my uncle grew up here and like he's a Buckeye fan like they they and it's like but I live in Tennessee but I live in California but I live in Alabama like they're that they they work those connections an awful lot down of a Jackson right yeah I mean Todd Jackson his dad that family's from Cleveland and Donovan Jackson was like how did get this five star Texas kids like he's got Ohio blood baby anything else from James Smith that you you thought was particularly interesting just again to

37:26the to the point of scheme James Smith primarily like a like a three technique kind of guy at Alabama has been doing some nose tackle stuff at Ohio State someone asked him I apologize I can't remember if it was someone asked when you watched the film of Ohio State's defense in last year like who was who was the guy that you sort of saw yourself filling that role and of course he said Kate and McDonald's because Kate and McDonald was very good but Kate and played a lot of note like straight up nose on on the center two gapping kind of stuff James Smith not he's not 330 pounds like Kate and McDonald but he's a pretty strong dude and he certainly got some size so it was just good to hear that like you know they hadn't they haven't scrapped the idea of someone playing a true note which is because Kate and McDonald's go which again if we're and you were talking about this on our pod that wasn't a pod on the sidewalk that you were talking like Kate and McDonald's ability to slide like when our valve comes in like when they go to a five man front and then can can Kate and both be both a three tech or a one tech or be over the center or not

38:28over the center and again you don't have to bring a true nose tackle into the game in that situation because Kate and McDonald is kind of playing two positions based on what Matt Patricia wants to do with the front and you're thinking maybe James Smith could be that similar kind of player. Yeah I think he could I think maybe John Walker could as well John Walker is a little bigger he's probably he's he's closer in weight at least to Kate and McDonald than then James Smith is and then I think if you look if you want to really expand the conversation if you look at them bringing in a guy like Jamir Perez in this recruiting class who's 360 pounds it's like yeah that's different that's that's a guy you bring it to your program if you're looking to play a true nose so there's a little bit of sort of like Matt Patricia's vision for the defense I think coming into to play with with the roster build there when you look at someone that's tough. Okay. I talked to Garrett Stover a little bit I think I'm going to write about it um he's an iron buck guy he talked about what that means to him I thought it was interesting um he said that

39:28freshman linebacker sincere Johnson has flashed I said how is he flashed and he said he already has six tackles and we haven't even gone live yet so which is such a good quote which is just like right which is like sincere quick tackle whatever oh my god we love this kid he's a man sincere don't do that anymore he's going to be a monster like that's like right don't tackle him unless you really want to tackle him kind of like it when you do it right that's I think I I can't remember I I think maybe I put it in practice observations or maybe we even talked about it one of the non-padded practices we watched they were doing like a pursuit drill and since here Johnson just like ran through it running back and put a long ground and James learned what are you doing but it's like smiling as he says it's like you love it he loved it yeah so yeah that's the kind of stuff to get you on the field early yeah that's going to be in the 4,000 word featured people right when sincere Johnson wins the butt kiss award it's like when he was a freshman he was he was

40:31tackling people when he wasn't supposed to so um you know it's just interesting and I think you know Garrett Stover's interesting Garrett Stover is come on like the first day of practice right who's come on you said it was you I mean and I was I was I was too uh dismissive of that too quickly I'm back around I think he's interesting yeah and I will say and this is like Austin Ward did say like you know your cousin because they're not brothers Garrett Stover and Kate Stover but he was like your cousin kind of was a linebacker then found this home at tight end any chance you might be at tight end Garrett Stover was like I'll do whatever but like it's just also watching the play fullback what do you want him to play a fullback yeah kind of I mean like that if that's the new thing it's like where do they find their fullback it's like let's run through the list of iron buckais is like could Jeremiah Smith be a fullback no

41:31could Brandon and us be a fullback no could Garrett Stover be a fullback we found our we found our fullback we just like they could have been Lincoln Kean Hall so could Lincoln Kean Hall too was an ironbuck I last summer have could he have been a fullback if they wanted him to be maybe yeah the missed opportunity that's the that's the cohort we will find our fullback from among the iron buckais so but it also feel like you know Riley Petagion is a very talented second year linebacker who's not a full participant in the spring because he's recovering Christian Allegro how he fits in as a transfer from Wisconsin is very interesting TJ Alfred is not to be forgotten very talented young players well but like there's there's a little bit of a I don't think it's opening but like are we a hundred percent sure who's going to be the second starting linebacker next to Peyton Pierce especially if it turns out that maybe there's some kind of rotation some kind of package stuff there I don't think we're I think we would have said in January Riley Petagion and Riley Petagion

42:32hasn't done anything to make us not think that but are there other guys who are just like putting themselves into the conversation like maybe a maybe Garrett Stover's one of them yeah I think it's pretty open that'll be fun to get into when we talk with James Lauren I just later in the spring because I think it's I would have said coming off of last season like immediately Riley Petagion they can learn like Riley Petagion is is a little banked up not going to be a full participant so then I maybe would have said like if I had to pick one would be Christian Allegro just because of his experience but I'll pull back a little bit from that too I think I think I think Garrett Stover's in that mix I think I think it's pretty wide open between Prove four or five guys if you want to include sincere Johnson in that mix right so and I think I think that's up they didn't rotate much last year because they were so good but if you're if you're bringing that sort of uh sealing down just a bit which I think is probably a fair expectation but the floor remains high and there's just like a couple of guys you think you can play I think

43:36you can rotate a linebacker so um I think that'd be on the table too but yeah who's if I like right now who's going to be will linebacker against Tex or against uh ball state um next to Peyton Pierce I yeah I don't know we also have to be uh on alert for sincere Johnson to have 12 tackles against Kent State in week three and we just like uh we have to remind ourselves right now to chill out right the like we all like what Riley Patajon did last year and what against gambling Riley Patajon like okay you're probably Patajon yeah and it was like they got to get this guy on the field then it was like I only played 80 snaps but but the other thing and this is not to the extent of when I called Kerry Combs to his face a dirty liar for saying that he was going to rotate Denzel Ward with Marshawn Lattimore and Gary Uncommon I didn't call the dirty liar but we had like a very like you you always say this and then it never happens he's like it's going to happen right we have you were there yeah yeah wasn't angry but it was like moderately confrontational for like a group interview right wasn't it yeah yeah yeah so James

44:40so this is it wasn't to the same level but James Lord I just like last August was like Peyton Pierce is going to play and it's like how is Peyton Pierce going to play when you have Harborough recent sunny styles like this doesn't make any sense and then Peyton Pierce played 263 snaps he was 14th on the defense and snaps and like he didn't like exactly rotate but he didn't also only play garbage time snaps and like James Lord I just despite having two top five picks at linebacker found a way and not even found like thought he needed to utilize Peyton Pierce in like a real way and so I think like that's certainly available because again that or there's no R Bell Reese's or sunny styles on this roster so like who's the third linebacker who actually gets on the field in spots that matter also is an interesting thing you know 10 snaps against Miami 12 against Michigan but like the like most of the season he played 20 snaps again so that's like a real thing he played 22 against Penn State he played 22 this

45:42is Peyton Pierce last year 15 against Texas 24 against Minnesota 22 against Illinois 35 against Wisconsin 22 against Penn State is not only against teams that play a heavy 12 personnel they might put like Peyton Pierce played and so I think that was soon not only is the second linebacker spot maybe a little more open than we realized there's room for a third linebacker to be on the field as a real thing there's definitely room for a third linebacker and I think this sort of flies under the radar but like Peyton Pierce did that and also led the team and special team snaps he played over 200 special team snaps so if I had to like pin down a roll for Garrett Stover right now that that might be what I would say is maybe you're the third linebacker play 150 to 250 snaps on defense but you're you're leading the charge on on special teams you're on every unit and you're like the special teams captain even if that's not something that is sort of like publicly assigned to anybody yeah and it's just again it's the difference Peyton Pierce played 263 snaps Riley Peta John the fourth linebacker played 77 so like Peyton

46:48Pierce was closer to Sonny and Arvel than he was to Riley Peta John so if it is Peyton Pierce and Riley Peta John let's say or it's Peyton Pierce and Cristian Allegro and Riley Peta John are sharing something but there's room for Garrett Stover to make an impact which I think is interesting as you explain yeah and I I really do think it's so so Sonny styles played 663 and Arvel res played 651 I think I would bet right now that there are two linebackers who play 600 snaps next year I think I think Peyton Pierce might but I don't think any another linebacker will play that way that that that between right there's like 900 snaps between the second linebacker and the third linebacker spot last year maybe that gets sprinkled out between Peta John Allegro and Stover and maybe Alfred right in a way that's more equal yeah I think it's possible which goes back to the thing we started at the top of like are there just more packages or even if it's not a package necessarily it's some kind of rotation where it's like Peyton Pierce

47:50pretty much is on the field all the time but like it's the second series I wonder who's in as the second linebacker oh it's the middle of the third quarter I wonder who's in as the second linebacker oh this team is you know trying to throw the ball now and so maybe like Allegro's in the game more because they want to like try whatever you know like it's it'll be interesting to see and again this like congratulations to Mapetro trying to contract like I think he's gonna earn his money like he's gonna have some stuff to figure out so definitely yeah it's just it's a he and he said he sort of said this right on on Thursday he had a lot to figure out last year but there was just a lot of like institutional knowledge about what he had to work with that that he didn't have but the staff had and and was able to give him his feedback as he tried to figure everything out and now like everyone's trying to figure out everything about everybody because there's 51 new players on the roster so it's just gonna it's gonna be a little more difficult and probably take a little more time yeah okay retiring the line of questioning about whether Ohio

48:54states defense needed to be more aggressive slash create more havoc last season much of I've I it came to a head for me kind of at the NFL combined with just seeing how wealth sunny styles and our Bel Reese tested and just realizing like what these three special guys they had on defense and that as we talked about even going into the playoff you know studying the defenses there were a lot of great defenses uh in the college football playoff but when you think about like havoc rate among like the best play like the best defenses in the country um most of them were really high in havoc rate which is tackles for loss which includes sex turnovers and then I guess I didn't realize it also includes it passes broken up is the one the college football data includes that and havoc rate and so when we're talking about havoc rate we've had this discussion before Texas Tech was first last year Indiana was second those were probably the two defenses that you would put on the same level as Ohio State a year ago Oklahoma was third great

49:54defense Texas A&M was fourth this is havoc rate right Miami was in the top 10 and then Ohio State was 34th in of the 68 power conference teams so they were exactly middle of the pack in creating havoc they were efficiency monsters and so I asked like I asked Arbel and Sonny a lot about it sort of over the course of stuff and I've written about it I've talked about it and I've never had the chance to really ask Matt Patricia about it I asked for a day about it on the first day of spring practice so I asked Matt Patricia about it were you I was worried I wasn't going to get it in because like everybody was just getting it yeah shout out to uh Hey Maddie P to new football SID will will be contagious for making sure you got that question I mean the smallest things again it's like sometimes the old guys if you didn't get one at the end right I mean I think yeah yeah so I got the question to Matt Patricia about I mentioned you know you were first in the country and fewest points allowed you gave up the fewest big plays they gave up the fewest plays of 20 yards 30 yards and 40 yards in the country um but you were 75th and turnovers and you were like middle of the pack and havoc rate were you happy with that balance a year ago um and he

51:00first of all like sort of like question the statistics and kind of said if you're going on raw numbers like we didn't play that many snaps as a defense and so if you're looking at how many turn we're 75th and overall turnovers gained right well we didn't our defense didn't play as many snaps well that's that's like a true fact but it's also it's always one of those when I was like well I'm just I'm sort of trying to use stats to back up the point so I'm not just saying like hey why weren't you more aggressive but then if like it's like well then if you go at the stats it's like well it's not just about the stats right it's about general balance of aggression versus being sound and then one of the other things um he said is that okay this I'm reading the reading from the transcript here you know the biggest stat that matters is obviously the score that's how we win and lose so stats are great I think it's a great monitor for what you're doing and so I look at those stats and I say all right we have to turn the ball over we have to tack we have to attack whatever we're doing so we obviously want to have more of those plays but also trying to be

52:04realistic like are we just at least playing good defense are we doing what we want to do on the tape is it clean I'd say that's probably one of the best compliments I've had in the last couple days just talking with my NFL guys that I know that have come back watching our tape here recently getting our guys better they just keep saying the tape is so clean it's so clean and it's just that means you're operating at a high level on the field and I think if you do that you give yourself a chance to win and then I said are you willing to give up any more big plays in the pursuit of more turnovers or more sacks or anything like that and he said I'm always looking for more sacks and more turnovers I'm never telling us not to do that for sure but I definitely don't want to give up touchdowns because that's the one that's going to be not good so whenever you ask somebody like do you want to get more turnovers every coach says yes I want to get more turnovers so like that's there's a there's a luck to turnovers I think I am mostly in the side of like

53:07turnovers are a large function of luck but there is a balance and I do think it's like turnovers can be a little bit it's to some degree of reflection of aggression and so to me it's really the balance of aggression versus soundness willing to take risks that maybe you give something up but maybe you increase the chances of your defense making a splash play whether it to sack on second down whether it's a turnover whether it's Caleb Downs coming up to the line and tackling a running back behind the line of scrimmage and that is so I'm done looking backwards and having that conversation backwards I remain interested in it forward in anything will anything about did you learn anything from last year that might apply to this year but I'll just start asking about this year and whether they are maybe more willing to do any of that I didn't feel like I didn't in the end I didn't get anywhere right I didn't get anywhere with this line of questioning did I I think it's hard to because football coaches I think just try to avoid like the the good answers

54:14to questions like that because I can start getting into like hey we want to blitz more we're going to be a little more whatever exotic or and they just don't want to give that stuff away that's the like just the kind of thing we're going to have to wait and see I think and I don't think you're I don't think you're just you're not going to get Ryan Day and Matt Patricia to like say anything the borders on the criticism of the defense to give up nine points per game yeah that's sure it's like sure you thought we should have had more tackles for last great we gave up nine points per game and I think I know I actually don't think that's an unreasonable answer if you want to just fall back on it because not a lot of teams and modern college football have allowed only nine points per game right hiring isn't just filling a role it's about finding people who can drive results indeed sponsor jobs helps you match with the right candidates faster target candidates by skills certifications or location join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs

55:19and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves and indeed dot com slash podcast terms and conditions apply hiring to it the right way with indeed when you manage procurement for multiple facilities every order matters but when it's for a hospital system they matter even more Granger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays that's why Granger offers millions of products and fast dependable delivery so you can keep your facility stocked safe and running smoothly call 1-800 Granger click Granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones to get it done which is and I agree I don't think it's an unreasonable answer again in the pursuit of if you're asking a question what could they possibly say I do think you could say man we had we had an excellent defense last year we got to get after it a little bit more like a look back on that there were times where I thought man I just we had such talented guys and there were

56:23some key moments where you know I'm going to remember to remind myself that like you can't just rely on on your talent you've got to put the pedal down defensively and you've got to make things happen it's not just about stopping them it's about attacking them and and as good as we were last year and I'm not sure I would do anything different but as good as we were that's a lesson I'm going to take into 2026 that's the answer that I'm looking for and I didn't get it yeah yeah again hard I think hard to be that introspective when you were as good as they were but it is like I was I was looking up some of these numbers as you were talking like all the I guess the three defenses you want to compare them to the most are like Indiana Texas Tech Miami all those defenses did play more total plays in Ohio State and Indiana Miami because they played a few more games the Ohio State did on a per game basis Indiana only played one more play per game the Ohio State did Ohio State average 57.2 defensive plays were game

57:24Indiana was 58.7 Miami and Texas Tech were more like 10 more plays per game Miami actually in the end because it went to the national championship had more defensive snaps than any team of the country over a thousand but there's like not a something that we're getting 20 more plays per game and and if you think of it more as a percentage like I don't really care how many plays per game you got it's it is a it is a fact if you want to go down that road and look at it it's like all those defenses were very good none of those defenses gave up anything scoring wise Indiana gave up 11.7 Miami gave up 11.8 Texas Tech gave up 14.8 Ohio State gave up 9.3 they were all efficient the like outlier among those four excellent defenses is it Ohio State did not generate nearly as much havoc and some of that is luck because some of its turnovers think some of it's not because some of it is sacks and tackles for loss and sort of like how creative and aggressive you choose to be some of its personnel driven as well like that some of those teams had some monster pass

58:25rushers that maybe Ohio State didn't necessarily have I don't it doesn't mean Ohio State had a bad defense Ohio State had an excellent defense last year but if you're looking for separating factors among the best defenses in the country last year I think you can point to Ohio State scoring margin which was the best in the country or scoring average was the best country and say like it was a Ohio State or you can look at some of this other stuff and say like that was probably one of these other defenses because they didn't give up anything scoring wise but also really got after teams and Ohio State did not quite meet that second bar the same way this other teams did the Indiana Miami Games Indiana Miami combined for 10 sacks Ohio State had five sacks in those two games combined looking at habit where it havoc rate in those individual games Indiana's havoc rate against Ohio State was 21.4 Ohio State's havoc rate was 10 so like on 21.4 percent of plays Indiana's defense creative havoc on 10 percent of plays Ohio State's defense created havoc in the Miami game Miami was 18.3 Ohio State was 13.8

59:34I rewatched it again I keep watching the Miami Ohio State game second drive for Miami four minutes into the game a third and nine our Valries lines up at edge over Marquell Bell the six foot nine three hundred and sixty pound Miami left tackle he goes right through him he goes into him wins with his hands and gets around him and gets to Carson Beck and it is like the Zach Harrison sets and Bennett play right of like he is right there he is half an inch away from swatting the ball out of the quarterbacks hand as he brings it back he doesn't quite get there and Carson Beck completes a pass for first out on third nine when that play happened in the game four minutes into the game it's like at 11.04 if you want to go if you record it you want to go back and watch it 11.04 left in the first quarter I thought to myself Miami's in trouble like they can't block our Val our Val by pff stats

1:00:37in true pass rush opportunities there were 12 of them in that game where like Miami really dropped back right didn't throw a screen didn't throw it quick like there were 12 of them our Valries rushed twice that was one of them so he rushed in a true pass opportunity one other time the entire game he had two pressures in the game that was one of them he had two in the entire game right our Valries had five pressures against Texas he had five pressures in the last six games of the year so like that's like that's what I want to show Matt Patricia I want to say look what our Valries did to Mark Helbell I think if our Valries had done that if you had chosen if the defensive scheme and it's one of the like at whatever you got to do get our Valries over Mark Helbell and I think if he had done that five more times in the game I think he would have had two sacks and then I don't know what would happen but I like to me that's that's the the frickingest we're talking like you know with Stephen we were saying like I just like they needed to let their

1:01:38freak flag fly a little bit more like they were so sound but they've got some freaks who they didn't get freaky enough and if you would have let our Val be like there's this house of a left tackle who's six nine three sixty but he cannot handle our Val speed I would like and I thought you had evidence and I would have gone back to that well until Miami adjusted to it because I don't think Miami I'm not sure Miami have adjusted to it if I'm wrong there and they did adjust than I apologize like call like someone tell me but that's what I mean that's what I mean yeah and it's like did the Ohio State defense lose I was like well the pick six was like a big problem I like to say but then like at the end of the game it felt like I mean as our Val getting after the pass or it's like our Val kind of gets goes a little bit toward the middle of the field and Carson Beck scrambles for a third down pickup on one play and then I'm like the game and basically the game the play at the end of the game they run a little pick play our Val supposed to cover the back out of the backfield and they flip a little pass to a guy who has like two catches the whole year and it comes down to our Val Reese pass coverage right it's like less than how I would want to

1:02:41decide this game I'd want to decide the game with our Val Reese getting after the quarterback if you can so like that's what I mean but I'm done I'm curious how it applies into the future when I ask Ryan Day about it in the first day of spring practice he kind of said well maybe if we don't have as many dudes we're going to have to create more of it our own with this game which I find very interesting map Patricia didn't exactly say that so I'm applying it forward but that's the final thing that if I had ten more minutes with that Patricia that's what I would try to get an answer to are you going to be operating on the clean freaky spectrum and you want to high state a little more a little more toward toward the freaks well and by freak by freak I don't mean freak athletes by freak I mean like freak it let's get weird and do some stuff to create some I think maybe the clean freaky spectrum is the second favorite thing of mine that you've ever said other than you up the clean freaky spectrum it's like I could you can get I can do clean feaky freaky spectrum all day my life is about the balance of the clean and freaky spectrum

1:03:44might don't we all so but like when you're it almost like it almost proves the point a little bit of like well I don't know what I mean and that Patricia was not at all like he could have shut me in a trash can and he didn't he wasn't a jerk about the answer at all but it's sort of like hey should you have created more havoc and he's like well let me tell you about all these NFL guys who talked about how clean our defense is and it's like my answer would be like yeah I know too clean like I just I always like and that's why I like quarterback store and interceptions you got to take a risk every now and then right like I like a little raggedness a little like with because often the raggedness is how you beat teams right and I think when you're less talented you got to get ragged you got to take risks and I think it goes back to what we talked about last year the efficiency monsters they're so good they're so smart they're so sound are they explosive enough on both sides of the ball and it it is this part of it is Ohio State

1:04:45going to be as smart and composed and as intelligent and as sound as and as talented as last year maybe not and maybe that's good is it possible for a football team to be too good which is a ridiculous thing to say but if any part of the answer is yes I think Ohio State's example they dominated inferior opponents too much they were too sound they never got freaky even though they had some freaky dudes and then they lost the teams that is did any of his defense get freaky very freaky yeah yeah so I think they lost to Indiana whose scheme is freaky here and then they lost to Miami whose dudes played a little freakier right that like Bane and Mesa door I don't know if that was scheme but it's like well they're throwing a band sickle around right I mean what I you know like that but I also think I think that who's the Corey Heatherman turned up turned up the freakingness a little bit because I remember going to that game saying like well yeah Miami's got

1:05:46great past rushers but they're kind of pretty straightforward with how they come after you and it's like well they they they mix it up a little bit when they play the Ohio State their blitz and can't they's got a lot yeah get in deal with this so yeah I think there's and I think if you want to whatever juxtapose it to the gym no early gym notes like you got too freaky yeah real in real in the freak but I don't know like it's hard I would imagine it's like we're so good we don't have to do any of that we're so good we dominate every single game we play but then like eventually that you play you play a game where you need it and and you just kind of can't summon it because it's just not something you've done it's not something you've done as a matter of course throughout the season I think it's similar it's not the similar from the tempo conversation with Ohio State's offense right so yeah I don't know that's where we've landed Ohio State too good too good too good in 2025 but like if I if if you and I four of us won out right

1:06:51Maddie P Ryan Day Philly Billion French really go out for wings and I try to present I do my five minute monologue where I try to present this idea about why Ohio State was too good last year and they didn't turn up the freaky dial enough when I got done would you Matt Patricia and Ryan Day look at each other as a trio of ball knowers and laugh me away from the table I wouldn't I also wouldn't put my ball knowing on their level but I think my Patricia might do is polish off nine wings and then make the number nine with the bones and then show it to you here's how many points we allow last year yeah and then I'd probably get offended and say something like Matt can I see your national championship bring oh wait wait one um because that's it that's like right we said the defense was a 10 out of 10 sometimes it needed to be an 11 and I think like you have to be willing to turn it up to 11 at times

1:07:51and I'm not sure that they were so like it can be it can be true right that that Ohio State's defense I think in no way shape or form lost them either of those two games right but they kind of had to go win them for Ohio State and they obviously came up a step short I think more maybe more than Miami game than Indiana game yeah yeah you needed and again it's so anyway we've had that conversation a million times I'm I'm done with it but the reason that I thought I was like are there lessons learned from it and I and I would say kind of no because I don't I don't think they believe there are lessons to be learned you are there lessons learned from what we did wrong from when we gave it 9.3 points per game no there are none I just talked to my NFL buddies and they said we were great okay and I'm not saying that that's I'm not saying I'm right and they're wrong but I I wanted to interrogate that line of questioning as much as I could so I did my best and I'm done okay right you're not mad are you mad are you like gotta get work with this guy no I'm not

1:08:52I'm not mad I I it's I feel the same way I think it's a difficult conversation to have because I'm sure that there are a lot of people who have been listening go like 9.3 9.3 what are you talking about 9.3 you guys are crazy and it's like yeah we might be yeah you could be you could be very correct about that how about the two craziest things in my career cover no higher state I'm 9 and 3 Doug and I'm also 9.3 Doug oh wow oh yeah oh oh oh I guess 9.3 points a game isn't good enough for French vanilla what do we I'm not exactly what I mean but I guess I'll own it um all right so we are going to practice on Saturday practice five we don't get to watch it but guess who we get to talk to afterward Jeremiah some Cortez Hankton that'll be fun that will be fun excited about that just people were sneaking Jeremiah Smith interviews a pro day not us we don't break we don't break rules I just thought I saw I saw who do you think who do you think I know I saw I saw the crustiest crusts of their all Clay Hall and Tim May have been doing this for five

1:09:56decades they don't they don't abide by any rules um the video got a lot of hits yeah good job by them we're just jealous uh but I think we will come back on this channel on this YouTube feed and this podcast feed on Saturday and have a little discussion about Jeremiah Smith but I also will tell you the plan is to have a very heavy Jeremiah Smith discussion then on around the shoe on this feed on Monday we already have the guests lined up I've told them to prepare for lots of Jeremiah Smith stuff because I think when we talk to Jeremiah Smith and so we'll talk about it Saturday we'll talk it again on Monday like we're certainly going to get into it a little bit of like what what do you think you can do what do you like do you have goals what do you want to be like and so we're going to do on Monday we're going to do some overunders on yardage totals and catch totals and touchdown totals and best player in Ohio State history totals right so like that's we're going to dive in deep on this fella there's a lot to get into there with him yeah yeah and in the

1:10:57meantime you have some offensive liability you have uh uh some stats that you've looked up that nobody else has looked up about offensive line play that's going to make for a really good story over at bill and dug o a shoe dot sub stack dot com uh we want to talk about the number of new guys that are in here we want to talk about the iron right about the iron buck guys we renamed the sub stack to the bill and dug show colon premium Ohio State writing and talk which I think somebody made fun of in our in our sub deck chat and you said a caveman wrote that title um it is different we're trying to convey every aspect of what we do at the sub stack but it isn't a little clunky I'm not sure you put a t-shirt I wouldn't put it but I think it's funny I own the clunkiness yeah it's fine but the bottom line is it's the bill and dug show like it's the bill and dug show here it's the bill and dug show there but it's not only talking it's also writing so we did what we did what we could we had a big meeting about it that's what we came up with um thanks to you guys for being here we'll see you over at the sub stack bill and dug o a shoe dot sub stack dot com 18% off an annual

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