Inheritance Tax – Is everything we know about “Britain’s most hated tax” wrong?

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1:04On it, Alpha Brain is a daily supplement engineered to support memory, focus, and mental speed. Made with science-backed ingredients, on it, Alpha Brain helps you lock in, tune out distractions, and stay sharp. See what your brain can really do. Visit onit.com and shop Alpha Brain to unlock your next level. That's o-n-n-i-t dot com. Hello, and welcome back to the bunker. You're recommended daily allowance of news without the nonsense. I'm Andrew Harrison. Today, read any newspaper to the right of the Guardian, and you think the entire country lives in terror of one thing, inheritance tax. It dominates the personal finance pages. In news coverage, death juices are always a tax raid, or a hold that the government is raking in. Labor's plan to raise the rate on inherited farms from 0% to 20%, still only half of the standard 40%,

2:05produced uproar on a rapid rethink, and the telegraph routinely invokes bereaved and grieving families, even though it's the estate and not the children who pay. And yet, the anxiety is not baseless. Decades of soaring property prices, combined with frozen IHC thresholds, have dragged many into the tax net you never expected to be there. Much of their wealth is locked up in homes that were modest when they bought them, meaning that when the bill comes, it can mean selling up. And behind all of this, it's a larger moral question of inequality. The top 10% of people hold 57% of Britain's wealth. The bottom 50% have less than 5%, and large inheritances only make it worse. So what should a smart, progressive government do about this? How do you balance the human desire to pass on something with the fiscal reality and the social cost? What if we are all getting inheritance tax wrong? To talk about this, I'm drawn by somebody who's seen it in inheritance tax from the inside and has thoughts about how we approach it. Dan Kemp was global chief investment officer

3:05at Morningstar, the international finance data company, where he oversaw about $350 billion in assets. He's now left to start a new company, Portfolio Thinking, which aims to bring AI fully into investment research. Hello, Dan, thanks for joining us. Hello, Andrew, it's great to be here. I think we'll be very glad to have you here. So I mean, IHT, as it is known, actually accounts for a small share of government revenue. It's about 8.7 billion pounds in the last, in 2025 and 26, 0.7% of all government receipts, 0.3% of all national income, and only about four and a half percent of UK deaths resulting in IHT. It's not what it is growing. It has, however, I could say, been demonized as this hated, hated tax. Have we always had this attitude of loathing it so much? We haven't, Andrew, as you say, it's always been there in the background, but it's really come to the foreground over the last few years. And we can trace that back to, in some ways, 2009, when we had the Labour government on its last needs,

4:07at the end of the last government, and they were starting to try and make changes to inheritance tax. And that really brought it to the fore. And since then, it's been growing in public consciousness. I'll give you a great example. I rang my solicitor a couple of weeks ago, because I need to update my will. If you don't have a will, everyone should have a will. I need to update mine. And the first question they asked me was about inheritance tax and how concerned I was about addressing that. And I wasn't concerned about that at all, but that was naturally the first thing that the solicitor was fixing on when I had a conversation with them. Are we particularly heavily taxed on inheritance at the moment, though, in 2026? Because the actual modern incarnation of inheritance tax isn't that old, is it? It's not very old. You're right. So it's really post-second world war that inheritance tax started to be codified. Margaret Thatcher had a big impact on the way the people thought about inheritance tax. But as you mentioned in your introduction,

5:09the burden on states, on individuals, has been increasing because the rates at which you pay inheritance tax, the estate pays in inheritance tax, has been frozen for quite a long time. And so as house prices have increased, as people's estates have increased, as the value of money has decreased over the last 11 or so years, then it's inheritance tax is affecting more people. We've perhaps got into a little bit of a tease for that in a minute, but I mean, that concept of passing on an inheritance to your kids has it always been so central to the kind of aspirational middle class identity as it is now? Because I'm like, in my late 50s, and I was a kid, I don't remember anybody ever. It was just assumed that nobody's ever going to inherit anything. Yeah, that's exactly right. And I think that's been a big change where you mentioned this right at the beginning again, that assets have been accumulating in a small and smaller number of hands. So one of the great achievements of humanity

6:11over the last 50 years is how many people we've lifted out of absolute poverty. That's an incredibly good thing, but the other thing that's been going on is huge amounts of wealth have been accumulating in the hands of a smaller group of people. And assets have been doing much better than labor. If you look at how salaries have gone up over the last 20 years compared to, let's say, what the stock market's done or most house prices, then assets have gained so much more, and they're a much more important part of people's overall financial capital now than maybe they were in the past. Yeah, real wages haven't really progressed into the financial crisis, have they, whereas assets and particularly housing, which have done much more widely owned than it had been, have gone crazy. Look at this issue, there will be people who say, crank it up to very high levels for, you know, kind of anybody richer than me, you know, the people with a lot of assets should pay a lot of inheritance tax. And there will also be the other extreme of people who just say, you know, abolish it, there is no rights to tax already earned income. Well, both of those approaches, those extreme approaches,

7:11are hazardous in that they remove the incentive to earn, don't they? Either from the person who's leaving the request because why save if it's going to get taxed, or if it's going to be taxed at a very low level, then the people who would be inheriting a disincentivized from work. And so it's kind of like I'm not entirely sure how you pull the levers to simultaneously have a justice in terms of income, but also continue to incentivize people to work. Yeah, I did, it goes even deeper than that in into our psychology as human beings, that if you think about the way that most taxes work, then you tend to pay the tax before you get the money. And so let's take your wages, then obviously the tax, the national insurance has taken off before it lands in our bank accounts. That's not the case with inheritance tax. So with inheritance tax, this is typically property that your parents owned. And then part of that is taken away from the estate. It is before you get it as the beneficiaries, but nevertheless, it's something that your parents had that you had access to and then has taken away.

8:14And we hate loss as human beings. We always have, it's deeper than our psyche, that we dislike loss far more than we appreciate gains. And so we feel that loss really acutely. When something like 95% of the population at the moment are not going to pay it and will not pay it, and yet it's become such an emotive thing, do you think that it's that emotional idea? Not necessarily the thing that will happen to you, but the feeling that it's the kind of thing that could happen to you? It's the kind of thing that could happen to you. Absolutely. It's also, it hits us when we are our most vulnerable. It's when we have lost a loved one, typically a parent. So the closest relationships that we'll have, that's when we have to deal with this loss due to tax. And so the timing of inheritance tax is terrible, naturally, because we're going through loss, that the fact that we lose something that we felt we had beforehand or our parents had beforehand, that feels terrible as well. And for most people, they're also thinking aspirationally. Everyone hopes that they'll be wealthier in their latter age.

9:17They hope their property will go up in value, typically they borrowed a lot of money in the desperate hope that their property will either maintain its value or go up. And so all of these things conspire to us feeling both aspirational about being that bracket of people that do pay tax, even as you said, there's a very small group of people and feeling that loss desperately when it hits us. Also, there's a feeling of regret because so much of inheritance tax is avoidable. If your estate is below the value of inheritance tax because you've done some care for planning or you've given your money away or you haven't known to enough of course, but let's say it was above the level but you gave it away early enough in your life to your children, then it's avoidable. And so there's also a feeling of regret that you could have accessed all of that capital, but unfortunately the tax management has taken away. Well, the current threshold, I think, the basic threshold is £325,000, isn't it? And I think the average estate that is left on death

10:20is about £330, £335,000. So almost everybody, if they're paying it at all, are paying 40% of £10,000, they're paying £4,000. Which obviously nobody wants to pay that but it's not exactly a life changing, sell the home end of your life issue for most people, but it is if you live in certain parts of the country where property values have absolutely rocketed and maybe I mean, I'm in the weird position of I bought, I bought a flat in London in the early 90s for a price now that just embarrasses me. It has become, it's increased its value sixfold to the extent that if I were to fall down dead after this podcast which I hope I don't, it would fall into the bracket for inheritance tax that was like a starter flat for a first job. And you kind of think, I don't have not thought for myself as an inheritance tax kind of person, but now I am. Yeah, exactly that. And particularly with property again, people are often dealing with family hopes that has a deep emotional attachment or we know from the news of the last year or so

11:21about people worrying about breaking up farms that are obviously incredibly important and maybe in passed down through generation. So there is a real understanding that this tax has a deep emotional connection, but also remember that one of the problems with thinking about averages is that actually the average is probably a bit misleading in that the income distribution in the UK and other developed worlds is not even. And so there'll be a much larger group probably that pay no, no inherit tax at all, but the people who are caught are caught at very high levels. There'll be likely to be quite few that are just on that cusp, as you say. It's likely to be two ends of the bell curve. Well, I was reading, you know, OBR forecast that by 2030, 10% of the population will be in the bracket for inheritance tax. And I thought, well, that means 90% won't. Why is it such a huge burning issue? Why don't we just accept that it's something for wealthy households to pay?

12:23Well, I mean, I want to ask you, I mean, looking at it from the government's point of view, how important is inheritance tax to the financing of government? I mean, I just mentioned there, it's like 0.7% of revenue or something. Is it that bigger lever that it's as such controversy attached to us? It's not that bigger lever, as you say. It's 8.7 billion. Roughly, that's a very large amount of money, but it's not big in the grand scheme of things. But of course, the government is near its limits in terms of what it can spend. It has an unlimited demand for public services and all the things that we want from the government from our taxes. And so it becomes really important because otherwise you have to replace it and the sort of things that you could replace it with are likely to be even more unpopular. Oh, the government has given a pledge that it will not raise, for instance, income tax. You know, so it's basically ruled out many of the larger, more powerful, more effective levers that could make a big difference to society.

13:24Exactly right. And that's why often governments will resort to trying to save money. But we've seen through successive governments whatever the political stripe that that's a very, very difficult thing to do in size. And so it's an important tax to the government because otherwise that's 8.7 billion. They have to get elsewhere. You did a start of business just to keep the lights on. You're here to sell more today than yesterday. You're here to win. Lucky for you, Shopify built the best converting checkout on the planet. Like to just one tapping, ridiculously fast acting, sky high sales stacking, championed checkout. That's the good stuff right there. So if your business is in it to win it, win with Shopify. Start your free trial today at Shopify.com slash win. At blinds.com, it's not just about window treatments. It's about you. Your style, your space, your way. Whether you DIY or want the pros to handle it all,

14:27you'll have the confidence of knowing it's done right. From free expert design help to our 100% satisfaction guarantee, everything we do is made to fit your life and your windows. Because at blinds.com, the only thing we treat better than Windows is you. Visit blinds.com now for up to 45% off with minimum purchase plus a professional measure at no cost. Rules and restrictions apply. Are you seeing a kind of, you know, a clear macro goal on inheritance tax with this government though, because they unfortunately have developed a revolution for U-turns and re-things and particularly on the farm one which you just mentioned, the tightening of the farm threshold. Originally the first million pounds of assets got a 100% relief with 50% relief over that. The threshold is not going to be two and a half million, a 100% relief on two and a half million. That's quite a valuable farm, I think. And yet it was a huge battle involving demonstrations in the streets and now very public U-turn. Are you seeing coherence on inheritance section of this government? Well, we're not seeing coherence on inheritance tax.

15:28And again, that's a symptom of making policies and then backtracking and then obviously the loss of credibility that goes with that. And so yes, you could see that the goal in the first instance, but then if you water down these goals, then of course they become somewhat meaningless. But again, one of the things about inheritance tax that this government is wrestling with is the fact that there are all these odd exemptions. It's quite a complicated tax. And so there's not just exemptions for farmland. There's also exemptions for what they call aim-listed security. So typically very small companies that trade on the junior London stock exchange. So there's these various different exemptions that are going on which encourages people to try and avoid inheritance tax. There's allowances for a giftist. Trust all sorts of things that people try to use. So by creating a very complicated system, you're also incentivizing people to do odd things

16:29to try and avoid the tax, rather than the simplicity of a very straightforward tax, which we have in other taxations like VAT, for example. Yeah, I want to ask you about what this factor is doing to our society. At one level, the amount of money that is inherited is a small bit of a government's point of view, right? It's $8 billion, which is a vast amount of money from the person in the street, but fairly small change to a government. However, at the level of the individual, it's life-changing to the extent that we're very nearly entering into a kind of a two-tier society. Either you've got access to the Bank of Mom and Dad, or you don't, either the Bank of Mom and Dad is going to give you a big request at the end of their lives or it isn't. I think the Bank of Mom and Dad now finances 50% of first-time property purchases and increasing proportion of second purchases, so it's not just the starter home. On top of this, listeners will have heard about the impending generational wealth transfer that's going through, what about to see what's predicted to be seven trillion pounds over the next 30 years, passed on from one generation to the next.

17:31And if you're in that group with that money as passed on, you're not exactly set for life, but you certainly have huge advantages that are not available to anyone else. And there are warnings that were basically saying up to two-tiered society where either you have the advantages of inherited wealth or you don't. And if you're in the latter group, you simply will never get ahead. I mean, do you say any kind of, again, do you see any kind of like wrestling with this particular issue that we are possibly crazy in that kind of a society? I think that's what a lot of people are wrestling with quietly. It's not being wrestled with, I think, in the media that we all really, you mentioned that right at the beginning, but yes, you're absolutely right that we don't want an increasingly divided society. We don't want that entrenched wealth. We want opportunities for everyone. That's been the great move that we've had over decades now. And I think in reality, almost everyone would agree that some form of inheritance tax is the right way to go.

18:35But it's a little bit like St. Augustine. I want inheritance tax, but not yet, or more correctly, not for me, that I shouldn't pay inheritance tax or my children shouldn't pay inheritance tax, but everyone richer than me should pay inheritance tax. And that's exactly the problem. And so we have elected officials to try and help us through those sort of discussions and create a more egalitarian society trying to address those issues at a macro level. But you're right to say that with half of houses now being funded by the Bank of Mum and Dad, that it makes a huge difference to people's ability to accumulate savings to their mental health, of course, because you worry if you don't have enough to make ends meet, and obviously the rental mortgage is a key part of that. So there are huge drawbacks to this two-tier society. And many of the ills that we've been moaning society,

19:35of course, come from that differentiation as well. So I think everyone, pretty much everyone, would agree that inheritance tax is an important tax. I think we just have to be quite grown up about the fact that there's a burden to be born here, which needs to be born more widely than just other people. It probably needs to be born by many of us as well. It's interesting that somebody who's been working in a multi-billion dollar investment advisory business will be saying, yes, we need to be possibly being more aggressive within inheritance tax, having a more grown up conversation about it. I guess that shows how serious the state of affairs has got. But is, I mean, I think one thing people listen to this podcast may well be shouting at their smart speaker is it's not about an inheritance tax, it's about a wealth tax. Taxing it at the inheritance stage alone is not going to be enough to deal with the issues of inequality that are, for instance, discouraging work in sectors of society that are showing young people who have entered the job market that actually you can work as hard as you like and it's not going to pay off because other people

20:37alongside you have got access to capital that you don't. So is it, I mean, I guess without, before asking how to fix inheritance tax, is it a mistake to focus just on inheritance tax? Well, it probably is a mistake to just focus on any one tax, including inheritance tax. But I think inheritance tax is unique in that it occurs at the end of someone's life. And so in that sense, those assets are no longer being used by the person that own them. Now, this, this, obviously, exceptions to say that people will be shouting at their microphones. Now, if farms are being worked on by the next generation, things like that, so they don't want to be blind to that. But nevertheless, that is the point at which that person's no longer using the assets in most cases. Whereas, of course, a wealth tax, people are concerned about their ability to provide themselves in retirement. And of course, the obvious answer to that is, well, that's OK, because the people that you impose a wealth tax on don't need to worry about their wellbeing retirement.

21:37But then that takes us straight back to, well, wealth taxes for other people, it's not for me. And so that we get into those sort of circular arguments when you deal with a wealth tax, which isn't the case in inheritance tax. There is one very quick way to reduce inheritance tax across the board, which will be politically radioactive, which is find a way to make houses cheaper, possibly by building lots of them. Yeah, well, exactly. And I think we live in this mythical world, my word, we're getting off top of that. But we live in this mythical world where we believe that endless gains in house prices are a good thing for the country and for us as individuals. It only is if you own that. It's obviously not for people that don't own houses. So it comes with problems as well. Well, let's get back to the refocus, refocus, Andrea. I mean, is there a sweet spot kind of between legitimate individual financial planning? People do want to leave things to their kids. That is understandable. And then the macro level of stopping a mass wealth accumulation from kind of seizing up social mobility and removing the incentive to work. Is this, am I just asking for a square circle here?

22:39No, I mean, there's absolutely a compromise to be made there that, as you mentioned for most people, inheritance tax is avoidable. And so the first thing that people should do if they're worried about there and inheritance tax courses is speak to their list or speak to their financial advisor who will help them understand what their liability might be. And there are ways you can deal with it. The best way to deal with it is to spend your excess money or to give it away early enough so that it can benefit that next generation, it can benefit charities. There's other ways that you can use that capital. Most people overestimate the amount that they will need in retirement. So many of us these days are worried about longevity risk. The idea that we live longer than our capital. But actually for many people, that's not the case. So having a good understanding of what your longevity risk is and planning for that, that is perfectly legitimate. We also need the government's help, as I mentioned earlier, in making this tax a little bit simpler

23:42so that people have not endlessly focused on trying to find loopholes. And also, arguably, a little bit more progressive that we know that it's a fixed rate after that threshold is some further complications on that. But let's think of it as a fixed rate. Of course, you could have it more progressive. So as someone's estate increases, then of course, they pay more tax. And that's another way of dealing with it. Yeah, I mean, I think you're seeing some things now along those lines, such as the current government is looking at bringing unused pension into inheritance and stacks, which used to be exempt. So if you die with a large pension part, it was my understanding that your pension is there to provide for you in your old age. And when your old age ceases, then it just turns into a tax shelter, doesn't it? So that's being brought into inheritance and stacks calculations. I mean, you slightly preempted what I was about to ask you, though, which is you just give some very good advice on what individuals should do. What if I waive my magic wand and you, Dan, are now responsible at the macro level

24:42at ensuring that inheritance doesn't continue to produce the inequality that we've got at the moment and that you hate and so are there with progressive tax? What would you, if you're the czar on this one, what are you doing, Dan? Yeah, well, I think the first thing is simplification, because obviously, the more complicated a tax is, the more incentive there is to try and find ways around it and loop holes, and that doesn't really help anyone. So first of all, simplification, second would be a more progressive tax system. I think we'd all agree again that the greatest responsibility and it's to land on those with the broadest shoulders. And so again, believing that people who are wealthier than us, this natural wealthiness should all pay in heritage tax and we shouldn't, then one response to that is to have progressive inheritance tax. And I know that may feel like an oxymoron, so simplification on one hand increased progressive

25:44banning on another, but really the banning is fairly straightforward, it can be straightforward, but it's all the loop holes that you want to try to deal with. So that's the, I think that's the first thing, but if any government is going to do that, they have to be prepared for the backlash of people with very deep pockets and therefore very high incentives to push back against inheritance tax. A lot of these people own media organizations or they make large political donations or they have friends in high places. So you have to be able to stand your ground. That's obviously the third thing that's most important for government. But if you make it simpler, if you make it more progressive, if you stick to your policies, then I think we could have a better outcome. But I really don't think it does fix the inequality point that you're making. It's just a step towards it. There's so much more that needs to be done. If we're going to prevent this bifurcation of society

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27:44Low-winter program subject to terms and conditions. Sealows.com slash terms for details. Subject to change, point booster subject to exclusions and more terms apply. One time we'll only offer. Where's your playlist taking you? Down the highway? To the mountains? We're just into daydream mode while you're stuck in traffic. With over 4,000 hotels worldwide, Best Western is there to help you make the most of your getaway. Wherever that is. Because the only thing better than a great playlist is a great trip. Life's the trip. Make the most of it at Best Western. Book, direct, and save at bestwestern.com. Is it fair to say, would you say that, the changes that have taken place in the post-war life of inheritance tax, it wasn't even called inheritance tax in the first place, was it? But new sources of wealth have been brought into it as a society of change. Is it fair to say that it's usually been the middle classes that have ended up paying the bulk of it? Because the wealthier, more mobile people

28:48who are able to access, perhaps, more sophisticated and complicated ways of dealing with tax have always been able to find a way out of it. And then actually, the simplification is what would put paid to that. I think simplification will certainly help. And you're right. The wealthiest have the most options. But again, I think your description there gets us back in this idea of the middle class is being burdened by the tax. Because how do we define middle class? Is it just people with more than £300,000 in assets? Which most people think is being quite wealthy? And so again, that gets us into this rhetoric of inheritance taxes for others, but not for us. But yes, the simplification is probably the best defense against some of the schemes, some of the outlets we're seeing. There'll always be that capital mobility. But in reality, the simpler the rules are, the easier they are to enforce. Yeah, I mean, we do live in a media environment where lots of newspapers and commentators

29:48seem to think that £100,000 is an average salary. And a million quid is an average price of a house. And he just isn't. Well, again, that's the southeast bias. And to some extent, you can see that in the residential home exemption as well, or the extra allowance that you get on your residential home. Of course, that's far more of an issue for people or far more of a benefit to people who live in the southeast and is elsewhere in the country. That doesn't help either. And so there's many of these simplifying aspects, I think, which could improve not only the operation of the tax, but also the perception of the tax as well. So just in closing, if you've got one wish down, you can do one thing to the inheritance tax that's what would it be? Simplification, right? That's going to be the first thing that takes away some of these incentives. It creates a greater visibility, a more level playing field, and we all know where we stand. No one's going to be happy with the inheritance tax, but nevertheless, the simpler it is

30:49than the less incentives to try and find loopholes around it. Ladies and gentlemen, you've been listening to a man who used to obviously billions of dollars in assets saying we need a simple, more straightforward tax take. Dan, thank you so much for joining. It's been really interesting. I said it would be great to be with you. Listeners, a top tip. Gifts are free of inheritance tax if you live for seven years after you give them, but unfortunately, you can't give them to podcasts. However, what you can do is, you can pass on some of your savings in the form of support on Patreon. From a mere three pound a month, you'll get the podcast early and at free plus merchandise are many bonuses as well. Follow the link in the show notes to find out more and how to support independent podcasting. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. The bunker was written and presented by pod masters group editor, Andrew Harrison. The producer was Liam Tate with audio production by Simon Williams. The managing editor was Jacob Jarvis. Art was by James Parrott and music by Kenny Dickinson. The bunker is a pod masters production.

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