India 2-0 West Indies - The CCP series review

0:00This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Yes, yes, yes, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another edition of the Caribbean Cricket to podcast someone half on, I'm one half the Caribbean Cricket podcast, Michele St. Patrick Cricket and with me as ever is my partner in crime since I'm talking like you're Andrew and Santoki, how are you doing? Yeah, we're here to review, you know, the second test and the series as a whole of West Indies

1:02versus India. West Indies piling on nearly 400 in their final innings, shell shocked us so much, we'd even get to record yesterday to do our normal birthday. We needed 24 hours to process what we had just seen. But it's interesting one because what had seen mash as a as a series where we were resigned to, you know, being depressed and saying, you know, we've been rolled over. Somehow we've managed to have a glimmer, a glimmer of light towards that end with that performance and it's kind of slightly changed the narrative around West Indies. I don't think it should because of it was one in inns, but you know how how hot takes work, everyone's come up with their hot take about West Indies and their abilities now. But overall, what sort of your overall take or thoughts about the series as a whole? Yeah, I think there's so many different angles you can run with. And I think fundamentally all of these different takes them about to say are all correct in some shape or form. But there is no one over arch intake or something. The first one, the first take I've got is that West Indie, when you're a smaller tier, it's not smaller tier, if I'm going to

2:05get vex, I said tier, when you're a weaker side in test cricket and you only get a two match test series against a team that is significantly better than you, you will inevitably always play better in the second test than in the first test, particularly in this scenario like the Inja series where we didn't even play a warm up game. So and you did the video, you did a video about what four days, maybe a week before the start of the test series saying, have we prepared to fail? Because we went, we just flew in there, what did seven or eight days in camp. But and some will say, yeah, but mashed and talking warm up games have glorified like games against like 19 year olds and stuff like that. But the point is we didn't play any kind of game to acclimatize to what we might face, right? And predictably, we got absolutely destroyed in the first test. It's not as simplistic as that though. And this is my point. No one take is the only take, right? But that's that's certainly one of my takes from it that weaker teams played better the more time they spend in in a country,

3:10right? Obviously in the in the in the old times, a test match series used to be five matches and more blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Cool. That's one take. The second take is we came into this series one in someone to score some 50s. We weren't even thinking about centuries. So in that regard, having two players leave with a century, which matches the amount of centuries we got in the whole of the last cycle and 150 can only be seen as a positive. The fact that those two players were two players that Darren Sammy has brought in himself under his new and the 50 was from Justin Graves, who many people would have said, hold on, Jason Holders would be in this team, not Justin Graves. Sammy can look at that and say to people, this isn't a defender, Sammy. This is just another take. He can look at that and say, trust my process. I particularly with Shay Holt, trust my process. I bought Shay Holt back. Lots of people said he should play more Red Bull cricket. He's leaving this series as the top average

4:11score in the West Indies team and with a century. So he can say, trust the process. That's another take. Probably there's more takes, but because of time, I'll give you one more take. My final take is that great. Second test, far more competitive, only lost by seven wickets, but let's not get this twisted. It was still a huge defeat and we were never going to win the game. So as much as we can leave with a moral victory and a sense of pride that we actually fought in the second test, the gaps between the haves and the have nots on the pitch is still huge. And we can't really assess how far we've come in this test series or have gone in this test series without seeing if they can even build on it, come using them. Yeah, I think if this was a, if this was like a football match, it would be the equivalent of being 4.0 down at a half time. And then us valiant to get two goals in the second half, building some confidence back. But fundamentally, we still lost the game

5:12by a big margin. And the game was pretty much done, done and dusted. I mean, realistically, once India declared them 518, they they batted us out the match. There was no way West Indies could win the match. There was no, there was so much time we couldn't back for the draw. So it was essentially batting for pride. And they did, as you said, they did manage to salvage some pride. I think just to count and like you said, I think there were a lot of positives to take from this individual batting performances, batting's been an area of weakness for the past few years or decades, I might say. In terms of our bowling, we only what we took, how many Indian wickets 13 Indian wickets and we generally struggled. I think that's partly down to one, like you said, the lack of preparation is hard for us to go to the subcontinent and be able to get that turn. And also, it just points to the fact that match, when it comes to spin bowling, there's a general lack of quality in the region, right? People might say you kind of added good to Keshmoti. Jamel Walikens our number one spinner, right? So good to Keshmoti, I don't think it would have helped to have had good to Keshmoti alongside Walikens, but I don't think he would have changed much going on there. Chase and Walikens ended up the leading, we could take us five

6:16wickets each, but we just generally struggled. Seals had a tough time. I think it wasn't a pitch that was necessarily suited to pace and he kind of struggled out there. But again, what pace is going to be able to go like, obviously, Bumra and Siraj are going to do stuff on this pitch because they play in Indian or regular basis, right? Seals flying in seals without any preparation they expect him to do much. He bold added me well, but I just think yeah, he just struggled overall. And when when Shamar Joseph and I was RV Joseph also lead to massive deficit in our bowling attack. So I mean, for me, it's kind of, it's the opposite to what we usually say about tests, right? The batting kind of held up towards the end, but the bowling was essentially what let us down. But we'll focus on focus on the positive smash. I guess the first thing is, Rust and Chase and Down Sam, you both come out post test and said, this is a stepping stone leading, I don't know what they didn't say on to what because we go to New Zealand next, which is completely different conditions than India. But they've kind of spun it into, okay, cool, we've learnt a lot from this series. The performances of Campbell and Hope mean,

7:20you know, we're building towards something. Do you first question, I guess, to your matches? Do you see this as a stepping stone? Or for you, is this just another event in isolation that happens once every so often in West Indies cricket? Or the fact, like you said, it is players who have come into the fold on the Sami means it could point to some, some sort of long-term improvement in the side. Let me give a new one to take on it. At the end of the day, the results from Australia news and, uh, and India read 5-0, right? However, you and I said it was going to be 5-0 before those series started. So, neither one of us is surprised it's 5-0. If there was somebody else's head coach, we would have predicted 5-0 regardless. If even if it was, even if it was Buddha and Shiva as head coach, you would have predicted 5-0, right? So, so in that context, I'm not here to have an argument about, but they should have done better because XYZ 5-0 was the expectation. What I will say, an indefense of Russian Chase, Chase's comments, and Darren Samus comments,

8:25what I will say is this, until the 27 not out versus Australia, I think everybody's take coming out of the, most people's take or the rational take coming out of the Australia series with it being like, oh, we lost 3-0, but actually, we were relatively competitive. Yeah, we couldn't really back because it was pitches that favored the bowling, but we bowed them down. They've just got four goats of the game, so they bowed us down because we can't back. If it had been like 150 all out instead of 27, I genuinely think that would have been the take on the series. Obviously, there's in that gap between us and Australia, but it was relatively competitive. Yeah. India, so few teams go to India, obviously New Zealand just did, but so few teams go to India and win. The funny thing is, particularly in the second test, in fact, the first test, the gap of the defeat in the first test wasn't, was smaller than the gap of defeat in 2018.

9:30So, even if we tried to paint the first test as completely disastrous, we see more disastrous defeats in India, right? And then the defeat in the second test by Seven Wickets was our best performance in India since 2011. So, to me, this isn't the defending Sami and Chase. This is me saying there is a context. I do think there's a context to what they're saying, and I'm going to equate it to this, and then he called you Sami. I'm going to, I'm going to equate it to this and tell me, I see this as, I've said it before in the previous episode, you pick your poisonous to which one it more applies to. I see this as no different to the growing pains that Mikhail and Mikhail Aerteta faced with Arsenal when he took the job and Arsenal finish eighth, and bearman were jumping online saying Aerteta out. Or, if you don't think it applies to him, to the growing pains that Ruben Amarin is facing in Manchester United, we're saying, listen, this is my process. This is what I'm trying to do. I've got to get rid of a couple of players,

10:33because they're dead out here, and this is what I'm working towards. You're either with me or you're not. Now, obviously, some of the United fans may listen to that, Santel King go, get the hammering shit and Sami's shit, and I see it quite similar to those two football managers, where they're at the beginning of a process in their head, and it's whether the fan base is willing to give the, in this case, Sami and Chase the time to prove that their process is the right process. Yeah, I guess you could say, yeah, there's a, they have, Sami has a system in place. Obviously, the counter-argument could be, he could be the new angipostocoglu and just be going on vibes and hoping that a cop, somehow winning a miracle cop like World Cup saves his skin, because yeah, it's hard to tell, Mash, because I guess we need to take, as you said, looking at these five tests, we were always going to lose five nil, right? It was expected. So, as we said on previous shows, really, and Chase actually said this as well. Next day, when they play Sri Lanka and Pakistan at home in a Caribbean, that will be more of a reflection

11:36of sort of where we are, where our game is at, and where our, you know, Sami would have had a lot of time by then, so you would have had over a year in the world as test head coach. So, whether to see, if those plans have been put in place and implemented, because we, I'd like to say, if Sri Lanka, I'm saying this now on record on the 15th of October 2025, if Sri Lanka beat us 2 nil at home and Pakistan beat us 2 nil at home, I'm the first to say Sami out. No, but it's true though, it's true because that would be a legitimate metric by which to say, wait, we'll allow it for Australia, we'll allow it for Australia at India, but if then 2 man come and sweep us in the Caribbean, yeah, then I'm getting behind people saying, yeah, no, if the process is not working. Yeah, definitely. I think if you're not going to beat Sri Lanka and Pakistan at home in this world test championship, because already we didn't, we didn't beat Bangladesh, right, we drew

12:39one one at home. So, who, that means who can we beat, because in theory, those are the weakest teams, right, and they'll be playing at home. So, yeah, I agree, if that I think Sami will go, if we lose those four tests, and I agree with what you said, match, the Australia series, the narrative was, it's forever been stained by the 27 or lap, but in that fourth innings, we were chasing 204, which on the pitch was always going to be impossible, basically, but 204 runs, it wasn't a mammoth target. So, even if we'd got all out for 100, we would have only lost by 100 runs, it wouldn't have been that, that, um, comprehensive defeat, and we bowed Australia out, I think the only, I think Australia only made like a hundred and fifteen or something. Yeah, Australia is only reached, I think, 300 once out of the six innings they played. So, it was generally, in terms of, um, West Indies Australia, it was a competitive series, and but the 27 is what all people look, and that's the headline. So, let's focus on the positives, mash. Um, I guess if we're talking about the deli premium, Shay Hope and John Campbell have secured their place in the test 11 for the next two years, at least with with those things, but credit to, credit to both of them, because I think John Campbell came out of time, you know, where

13:42Tage was obviously struggling, Afonese was struggling, and he really, he really went on the attack, used a sweep very well, came on the front foot a lot to the ballers, didn't really show any fear. Um, obviously there were a few, there was a few LBW shots, which he got overturned on review, and stuff like that, but overall, it was a really, really good innings, and like I said, on previous lives, definitely vindication for him after, you know, he was banned, he could have easily fallen out of the game. So, the intercom back school is first ever test century, in India, of all places, was a great moment, and then backed up by Hope. Hope, um, we know what he can do. Obviously, you've done videos in the past saying, you know, Hope needs to get back in the test side. We've always been hoping that he can replicate his magnificent ODI form into test cricket. And whilst this is just one innings, you can't really take much from it. It is, it is a good sign because he did play very confidently, and um, so if we could get those two, if those two are going to be consistent, that's the big thing right, if those two can be consistent, solves the massive problem, because then we've got two in our top six now, you can actually back right, rather than us worrying about who's going to be able to fall. But with Campbell, we've seen it before, he offered you a glimmer of hope, and then it will just be taken away. So I just want to see

14:46some consistency. And bearing in mind, both of these players are what, 32, 33 years old. This is essentially, you know, they're going past their prime now in theory. So essentially, they've got these two years to basically prove themselves as test quickers, right? So we're hoping that they make the most of it. But first, your thoughts on your compact Jamaican compacture at John Campbell in his innings, the 115th. If I'm John Campbell, if this innings doesn't tell him that he belongs at this level of cricket, whether he does, whether he doesn't, if he can't use this innings as a launch pad over the next two years of the world's championship cycle to say, let me prove to people that all of that pretty 20s there is that I've played. There's always been a brilliant cricket on the brilliant. There's always been a good batter in there. He's now got to, I now want to see some like every, every test series from now on, Campbell's got to go into it thinking, I'm supposed to make at least one score over 50 if not two. Some people like masher at such a low standard, but this is where we're at, right? What a weird career for Holt?

15:52Three to the centuries now, all of them away from the Caribbean, two in England, one in India. Dominic Mann would would love to end their career saying they've got two test entries in England and one in India, but he still averages 25. Do you know what I mean? So this is again, whole piece about to turn 32 in the next month or so. I think your point is valid, San Tolkien, a lot of these guys, Chase is about to turn 34, Campbell 33, 32, a lot of these guys, this is almost like the last dance to end their test career with an average. If I'm, if I'm Campbell Holt, Chase all that lot, I'm thinking over the next two years as well to championship cycle. Let me make sure I can get my average up to 30. If they can get their average. Man said the previous generation got lower for 100, yeah. Usman, that someone can finish their career on 30, you know. I'm not even, I'm not even saying 31, you know, I'm actually just saying 3-0.

16:55If hopeful, if hopeful Chase finished with average of 30, what happens? Does Viv come down, Clyde Lloyd come down, give them the handshake. This generation, if any of these guys, because the thing is, all of them average in 25, so if they can end their career, average in 30, they would have gone on a generational run to go for 25. 3-0, you know. Man still got average of 30, you know. One of the like, sobers out here. Jermaine Blackwood, that in crew of Bond, there must be sitting there, wherever he is in the world going, they drop me for average in 38. Blackwood is sitting somewhere going, I've got dropped for average in 31. Like, do you know, I mean, and now we're just begging someone, someone to try touch 30 before their career is done, you know, but it's, it's a reality of where we're at. A bigger question, Santelke, that I'll put to you is, to all intents and purposes, whether you end a tour with 3-90 all-out and you make injure back again and you only lose by seven wickets, you kind of have to stick with the, with the players, right? You can't really make any major

18:01changes. Obviously, Shamar Joseph comes back here now, Zari Joseph comes back in because they were injured and they would have been in otherwise. And obviously New Zealand will see more than spin. So, Carrie Pierre will step out, for example. But I'm more looking at the batting. Is that batting line up now locked in, Santelke? Because I can't see much justification for changing it. Campbell's now got a century he's in. Tasia only just came back so he gets another goal, right? Alicafanese scored a couple of, I think, 140 and 130 or something like that, 38 and a 40 something. So he gets to stay because that's like at the high end of a West Indian, right? Who's for Chase's captain, he stays. Hope has got 100, he stays. Graves got a 50, he stays. And then Imlux just coming as, I think that's basically the team is already set for the next test series unless there's injuries. It's an interesting one because I still think Sammy would like to fit King into these plans, right? I forgot about King. I forgot King played in the first test. Yeah. So what's going to, we can't just, we can't ditch King after this. So how's King going to

19:03fit into that? Because I was, I think hope's not going to wicket keep. I just think hope, I thought at the time, hope being captain of the Whiteball sides. You can't have him wicket keeping in tests and batting as well, especially after this century. So I think hope is a wicket keepers done. So you've got to fit a wicket keeper into the side, right? Imlux, they seem to like him in a subcontinent more than anything because he's good at predicting spin. Did they personally have Imlux probably or were you going with a Josh De Silva? But how do you fit King in? Because there's no one else, there's no one else in that batting line up who can take the gloves and slot, you slot a king in for like, put him like in. So then, then it means, then it means it's horses for courses, right? So do they look at King? So for example, when it's in New Zealand conditions, which favor pace more than spin, do they look at the fact that King scored 75 against Australia in a series where everybody got bowled down? So they look at that and go King plays pace better than Alec Athanese. So King comes back in or is Athanese given the 41-38 run premium from India?

20:05And because Athanese came back in because he plays spin world. Do you see what I mean? So is it horses for courses or is it you retain your spot because you got a 41 and a 38? Yeah, see, this is what I was thinking. I was thinking if something, because I think Sami does want King in the side, right? Test side going forward, especially in some way like New Zealand. So I was thinking Athanese is technically the most vulnerable. But then do you really want to go from Jopping Kevlon Anderson, then Jopping Athanese, then putting King in that free? It's a lot of changes, but Sami hasn't been afraid to make those changes. So we'll see how it goes. And also, how does King, is Sami going to base, let's say King goes to Bangladesh and hits the century in the early ice rinsed. One of those guys, the Sami see that as, okay, cool, he's in form. I'm going to use, because there's no Red Bull cricket for King to get back into the side, right? So what you base in it on is it's going to be, it's going to be really interesting, but I just can't see King going all the way, because King will be in New Zealand for the whiteboard, but I just can't see him widened drinks for the, for the free test against New Zealand. This is often sent to me as a message, and I've never asked you before, and I've never really contemplated it, because I've always said

21:09it don't make sense, because he doesn't play that position in, in domestics. Do you see a situation where King opens? Obviously does it in whiteboard cricket, but can you see a situation where, oh no, let's say Tage don't make runs. Let's say Tage opens in New Zealand, right, and doesn't get past 20 in the first and second test. Could you see a situation where they say, you know what, Brandon, just go on opening test cricket as well? I could see it because there's West Indies. I don't think that was suit him, because like you said, he hasn't opened in any Red Bull cricket before, right? But if you want to fit him in, and I think I'm not confident about Tage at all, like nothing I've seen suggest that he's going to produce in New Zealand either. So I think at some point you're going to, whether it be mid-series in New Zealand, or even before the series against New Zealand, they're going to have to make a call on Tage, right? But there's no other openers that you can kind of slot in, unless you go back to the McCall Louis, which I don't think they're going to do, right? So then you could sort of all your problems by saying, all right, King, what do you think about opening them? The thing is, if you're asking, I'm sure he'll take it, because you want to get back into play test cricket, right? So that could also be,

22:11that could also be a scenario that they go with, but it'd be very interesting, because like I said, I just think King, if you've made such a big deal for King to come back to test cricket, you can't just drop him after four tests, right? So he's going to have to slot back in. And the other interesting one is obviously Justin Graves has done reasonably well in India. They said actually, Sammy said he was going to bat him at six, but because in India, batting first and Graves had to bowl, he ended up batting lower down your dough. Oh, I didn't even hear that, you know? Yeah, so that kind of shows you how confident Sammy is. But it also shows you that they're done with Holder. It shows you the level of, well, not done with Holder, but they're not dropping grades for Holder. So if Holder now gets in the West Indies team, it's only in the place of a bowler. Didn't go, I mean, then obviously they aren't Holder to come to India when one of the Jolls is got injured, right? And Holder said, now I've got surgery. So he's obviously in their thinking, but he's not in their thinking in an all-rounder position. Yeah, this is what I mean, right?

23:12So that's going to, but I don't think Holder, as an out-and-out bowler, if you've got Shema Joseph, Asahi Joseph, Jaden Seals, I don't think Holder makes sure 11, right? He might make the squad, but I don't think as an out-and-out bowler. I would have rather had him than Yo Hanne and Anderson fill it though. Yeah, of course. That's what I mean. So if it's the case of one of the Jolls, this is injured, I think Holder gets in the 11 as an out-and-out bowler. But if all our first choice bowlers are fit, Holder's not making that 11, right? So that's going to be another interesting call. But I do think New Zealand is going to play more to our strengths with the pace bowling. So hopefully, you know, we can put up some sort of performance and with this new sort of batting confidence. But we said, Masha, we'll keep it to it. We'll just do a short, quick review just to summarize sort of what it is. I think what we kind of agreed on is, obviously, there were things to take from this, positive to take from this, which we weren't expecting after the first test. However, fundamentally, India declared in both Indians, they put up mammoth totals. We sort of, we struggled to keep up for most of the sessions across the test. And most importantly, we've ended that up 0 and 5 when it comes to the World Test Championship.

24:13So before we go, I'm talking about actually one simple question with a quick answer. Rate the series out of 10 for West Indies. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm not giving the rating. Get the comments below. Get the comments below. Do you think Santoki has rated our series performance too high, too low, or just right? Because I'm intrigued, actually, we might come back and do an episode on player ratings. But I want series rating only people out of 10, give us a rating. Santoki said four, but as Santoki says, we're finishing up here. We're only doing quick ones these days. As ever, though, before you go, if you haven't already done so, subscribe to the podcast. Become a patron, people. It really helped our podcast grow. Basically, covers our running costs as a podcast. www.patreon.com forward slash carrot cricket. At the very least, if you can't do that on the way out, like share, subscribe, tell a friend's, tell a friend, and follow us on all the different social handles. We'll be back very, very soon.

25:13Got tons more content stuff. We've been cadding the archives, waiting to drop for a while, but Indie series took a lot of time. And also, of course, Bangladesh series is starting on Saturday. So the cricket ain't even, we can't even take a break. Because Bangladesh old-yard series starts the down bad championship, starts in the old-yard and then T20 straight after that as well. So Santoki and I aren't going anywhere. We'll be back very, very soon with even more content. Locking people. And thank you for listening.