IMF talks amid Senegal debt crisis

0:00Hello there and welcome to Focus on Africa, I am Ketchi Obona in Lagos, Nigeria. Senegal is under growing pressure to tackle its hidden debt worth more than $11 billion and has turned to the IMF for help. Meanwhile, citizens say surging inflation, energy cost and food prices are biting families. If you take the back of price like the 50 kg, so there is an increase of 25% of the back of price. If you take the pressure tables for example, let's talk about the onyance. The price is doubled. Every product is now increased. So this is a real real problem. And the dress that got international attention bringing to light the seven anatomical layers involved in a cesarean section to life on the Miss World stage in Vietnam. We speak to the Uganda designer on the significance.

1:00People don't know that a mother going through the c-section, some mothers are unfortunately unable to give birth naturally and they have to sacrifice and you know go through all the pain. You know when you get the c-section their healing process is also really long. So I need it to be addressed in one way or another. It's Monday, September 14th. The NGLE's president, Basirudiyomai Faye, will hold talks with the International Monetary Fund, managing director, Kristalina Georgieva in Washington this week as Senegal 6th a new IMF bailout program. The talks come as the country grapples with a debt crisis and rising living costs. On the streets of the car, protesters are demanding lower prices for essentials, including food, fuel, electricity and rent.

2:03You need it. Without 20,000 or 15,000 francs you cannot cook the two meals per day. Bear in mind we haven't added breakfast. Bear in mind we haven't even added the fact that the children have to go to school. I tell you that for a large Senegalese family home when you go out to buy 1 kilogram of meat, if you have 15,000 you are still 1500 short. Can you imagine for people who have big households? Maybe those who have smaller households can manage, but now everything is expensive. The slice of fish that used to cost 2500 now costs more than that. Almost 4000 now. It's too bad because we don't have the salary to overcome this lifestyle. So it's normal that it worries us a little. From the end of the month we feel persecuted, we struggle to make it to the next month. I get the impression the state is somewhere else and it's also disappointing because we did it for this.

3:04So how did Senegal get here? In September 2024, Senegal's new government said it had uncovered billions of dollars in public debt that the previous administration had not disclosed. IMF now estimates that the hidden debt is worth more than 11 billion dollars. While some analysts put the figure closer to 13 billion dollars, that's more than a quarter of Senegal's total debt. So I spoke to Mahata Babi, co-founder of the 30 days for a fair price campaign, which is calling for a lower cost of leaving. He began by comparing how much prices have risen. If you take the back of the price like the 50 kg, so there is an increase of 25% of the back of the price. If we take the price tables, for example, let's talk about the onions. The price is doubled. Every product is now increased. So this is a real, real problem. And what is this movement calling for the 30 days for a fair price?

4:07What exactly is the movement calling for? Right now, the first thing was just to do a peaceful demonstration that we did. So we called everybody to join us to shout out loud voices, to show to people that right now the cost of leaving here is high. So this was the first initiative we did, and thank God everybody came. That's the most recent show that the pain is for everybody. Our initiative is the voice of every consumer here in Senegal. What we want to do, what we plan to do, is every single day to raise the voice of consumers. We are living in a very expensive country and then the government have to work to do the job in order to make our life better. Across the world and even in Nigeria, where I am speaking to you currently, we have seen protesters, Harry placards, demonstrating the price of commodities and the agriviences to the government. But in your case, we're seeing young people in Senegal carry empty color bashes and empty

5:12containers. Could you tell us what the significance of these objects are for the protest? Yeah, actually, we just wanted to show that our color bashes are empty because we no longer can really fool it. We use our color bashes to go to the back, buy the vegetables and the provisions and everything we need for our daily life. Okay, now we wanted to show those empty color bashes that we can no longer afford it to fool them all. Many thanks to Mahata Babi, co-founder of the 30 days for a fair price campaign. Now, earlier, the government took some steps to ease the cost of living and reached a staff level agreement with the IMF on a new $2.2 billion dollar three year lending program to support economic and financial reforms. The deal still needs approval from IMF's executive board. Dr. Aminata Tury is the high representative of the Senegalist president and she's started

6:14by explaining the debt situation in the country. And there is not a point of crying after a spill milk, as we say, but definitely it has been a tough one because I mean, we are developing country, we need investment, we need to deal with health, with education, with employment for our youngsters, but at the same time, we have to pay the debt. So we were quite happy after two years of negotiation discussion to be close to a deal with IMF and of course, as a partners. But why was this debt not discovered until now? Was it hidden? Well, there is a whole discussion about hidden or not, but that is very difficult to hide the debt because you have to sign the debt contract, etc. Maybe that was an issue of accounting, that's what it was, but hidden or not, the debt is here and we have to pay it. It's unfortunate, very unfortunate, that it got to that level because it's not sign of good management, good governance.

7:16But as I said, in 2024, President Basir Ujra Mifai inherited that debt and he had a very responsible attitude because the issue is while discussing with our financial partners, we wanted to make sure that we will preserve also all our development potential because we have in mind the dark days, dark years of adjustment, structural adjustment that our countries went through. So we didn't want to go through that, which explained also the length of our discussion. So I think we are close to a very balanced agreement that we preserve our social programs etc. But of course the government will have to save on it expenditures, functioning, admin expenditures while preserving the social policy. I hear you when you say the government is going to need to make savings and make adjustments. Now, Senegalese people are wondering how will this debt be repaid without having any economic shocks on the cost of living, which is already skyrocketing in inflation as well.

8:18Inflation figures are also hitting the roof. How do you plan to repay this debt without economic shocks that will be felt by Senegalese people? Debt or not, inflation is a universal phenomenon. Throughout Africa, we are going through inflation because we have extraverted economies. So we inherit most of the inflation that occur following the hike of price of gas, the consequences of different wars. So this is a phenomenon that is not specific to Senegal at all. But what I am saying is it will take good governments and I think that is what we have demonstrated in our negotiation. Let me tell you that we even have increased what we call here the family scholarship. The family scholarship is a huge program that supports very poor families most of the time, led by women. We have increased the stipend that they will receive every month and we have increased the numbers of the family. The objective is to go to 100 million families. Senegalese is 19 million people. So the government and president, Jomai Fei, insisting on keeping this social dimension

9:24of his vision and that is going to be important. The cost of living of the government itself will have to be nationalized. It acquired, as I said, quite a lot of good governance and the intentions are very good and so far we didn't have an agreement with the I.M. for the past two years but we never felt short on our commitment being financial or social. I hear you when you say you've never fallen short on repaying but this is a 2.2 billion dollar debt that you are going to the I.M.F. to get. What is the repayment plan for the Senegalese government? Well, you have to go into the agreement that is not only public but let me tell you also that we plan to increase our wealth creation. We cannot stay within just I.M.F. plans and borrowing external money. That is never going to develop Africa at all. So what we are planning and we expect also question on that front is to create more wealth. As you know, we are going to be gas and oil producers.

10:27We want to develop value chain. We are also envisaging to modernize agriculture, fishering, etc. So we will also create wealth. It's not like we are going to just sit and work with what we have and I think the president Jomai Fei took a very strong option on industrializing the country because that is where Africa as a whole is falling short. As long as we don't industrialize ourselves, we will bounce back from I.M.F. plan to another for the coming decade. First of all, young people in Senegal are worried about the huge debt burden and what that would do to their future because these are monies that will be paid back by future generations. How is the government of Senegal ensuring that there is true transparency when it comes to these negotiations and the repayment plan back to the I.M.F.? Mom, the future of Africa and Senegal is not in the hand of I.M.F. We also have to, in another hand, look into what are the ambitions as creating wealth

11:28for these young people you are referring to. These young people will have to be trained, will have to be supported in creating entrepreneurs and being invested into modernizing our agriculture, our industry, etc. So let's not look into just one side. The future of Africa is not only in the hand of I.M.F. I think that mindset needs to change. We do have issues with them but it's not the only part of the picture. Let's look at the bigger picture which is having ambition to develop ourselves. No, but the thing is, you keep going back to the I.M.F. to Borough. So when you say the future of Senegal doesn't lie with the I.M.F. That's where you've been borrowing from in the last couple of years. How do you keep going back to someone who you say doesn't hold the future? How do you plan to pay back? Mom, we didn't borrow to the I.M.F. for the past two years. We've been borrowing to Senegalese people to the market. As so does United States or France or Nigeria for everybody, we are in a very connected economy.

12:28What we are doing is we are negotiating with I.M.F. But we are not holding our breath. So trust our resilience and our smartness in developing our countries. Is there something Senegal is giving back beyond the debt repayment plan? What are the terms and conditions that are on paper that involve this exchange? That you will have to wait until we publish the computer agreement with that didn't occur yet, by the way. We do have a good map to work, finalize the agreement. But the point to be heard is, let's not really think that we can develop our countries only because we would have planned with I.M.F. Dr. Aminata Tury, the High Representative of the Senegalese President. This is Focus on Africa from the BBC World Service. What if Addresco tell a story? As recently concluded Miss World Pagent in Vietnam, a gown inspired by Ciseraan Section surgery captured global attention.

13:33Miss World Uganda, trivia-el-muhosa, stepped onto the stage in a striking layers of life gown, inspired by the seven anatomical layers Dr. Spastru during a Ciseraan section. Each layer of the gown is represented in a different color, turning a medical procedure into a visual story about childbirth, motherhood and the human body. The unusual design attracted international praise, including from the World Health Organization's Director-General, Tedros Cabrera-Essus, who set the gown, helped shine the lights on the realities of C-section childbirth. So I spoke to Miss Shira Rabab Abdullah, the creative director of Kisha, the Ugandan-Fashon-Kotor brand behind the dress. She began by painting a picture of what the dress looks like. The gown is made up of different layers,

14:35because we named it layers of life, and it includes different layers that are inspired by the C-section. So a lady has these different layers, and when she undergoes a C-section, we are able to see all the different colors and the layers that the major surgery has to cut through to get to their baby. But I'm wondering what's the inspiration behind that? I mean, turning seven anatomical layers involved in a C-section into a fashion piece. So the main inspiration deeply came from different maternal issues in Uganda, and also my own personal childbirth story, and also from the different stories we got from women's experiences. So once we dove deep into that, we ended up with the C-section, because I realized the C-section is something that wasn't really spoken much about, and it's something that also deserved a visual representation through what I know best, which is fashion.

15:35So generally, the inspiration was maternal health in Uganda. When you say from your own personal story, what does that sound like? I am a new mom of one year old's baby, and going through childbirth was one of the life-changing experiences I've had. And once I went through that, I go to a different story, different women went through, and that's how I was able to come up with the C-section as my main is for. Take us through the creative process. How did you translate something so medical and then turn it into a girl? Well, the process was a little bit challenging, because you know, turning something that's very emotional and has such a serious message into something visual, or as a bit hard. Of course, we do want the outfit to look like, you know, a medical illustration or something, but we have to research about the different layers, the colors of the different layers from an actual doctor who has done this surgery before,

16:37and also some reference pictures we go from the internet. So getting the different layers of tools, so that we can layer them from like, you know, we have to make sure it still looks fashionable or elegant. So layering the different shades, making them ombre was also a bit challenging, because we had to use some shades, and then throw them away, so it was, you knew what, and then you repeat, and then you do something. I had a process, but at least by the end of it, we were really happy with how it came out. And we're happy with how the colors and the layers did the best to represent the C-section, picture, as we saw it. You say you also wanted to speak about the issues around child bearing in Uganda. Could you highlight some of those issues, and then if there are misconceptions or narratives around a C-Zerian section? Okay, so in Uganda, by the time I created that dress, we had a huge story going around

17:38about a lady who had just had her C-section, and there were some redundancies around the medical system, and she ended up losing her life, and she had just had a C-section, so that story also really touched me. Then I also realized that there's actually this stigma that goes around, that C-section is the easy way out when it comes to childbirth, and people don't know that a mother going through the C-section, some mothers are unfortunately unable to give birth naturally, and they have to sacrifice and, you know, go through all the pain, you know, when you get the C-section, the healing process is also really long, so I needed to be addressed in one way or another, that C-section is twice as hard, or it doesn't mean that, however, your lesser than a woman, or lesser than a mother, if you had a C-section. And do you think fashion can change the way we talk about experiences like childbirth? Now, the fact that we met this gown, and it spoke to all these conversations around the world, and it's resonated with a lot of people,

18:40it made me realize that fashion has the power to communicate such big issues, because it was just one single dress that carried this story, but a lot of women could talk about the experiences, a lot of women or doctors came out to talk about this experience, to teach different people about it, and I was so happy that a lot of people got an insight on what C-section actually is. I mean, women go to speak out, so fashion does have that power, if at all it's handled the right way. And I have to ask at this point, Mochira, what is that one thing you hope people take away from the layers of life as you have called it? If there is anything I really hope, the C-section mothers feel seen or feel hard, and I'd like to take away that shame around the having a C-section, but also I also want to like celebrate different women who have gone through the C-section, whereby if at all anyone can look at the scar they had after the C-section, they can feel like their body

19:43went through something extraordinary, or their bodies are strong enough to bring a life onto this earth. Yes. Should we expect another thing? Is there another bombshell internet breaking dress who's coming from you again? So layers of life was just a tip of an iceberg, I must say, because like I had mentioned earlier, our inspo was mainly maternal health in Uganda. So C-section is not the only part of it. It has a lot when it comes to child, but there's a lot, a lot of issues that I feel like women need to, you know, like we needed to address. So I'm hoping to create a whole collection. That dress would be something that has pioneer does to create that collection, but we expect a lot more, and it's something we are now currently in progress and working on, release a whole collection that addresses different stages when it comes to womanhood or childbirth or simply just being a woman. Yes. So we expect more to come out.

20:43And do you think there is an intersection of fashion, art, storytelling, and how do you think African audiences especially perceive this type of fashion and this type of statements? Do you even think the market is ready for things like this for this type of couture? Back in Uganda, to be honest, this is not something that is very much celebrated, dresses with conceptual stories or whatsoever. But however, I feel like that's because sometimes we might not feel confident enough to talk about these stories, or when you look at what African fashion is, a lot of people think it's about an African print, or it's about any traditional reference, something cultural. However, I feel like we also have a right or deserve to talk about things like medicine, technology. And I feel like once I did this dress, it did not only resonate with people around the world, but also with people within our own community, within Africa.

21:43So I feel like if more creatives could come out and talk about these different stories, then we can slowly adapt this kind of fashion and couture. And actually again, from me, as the designers, also the people we are trying to communicate to, it can change something in their lives. Many thanks to Moshira Rabab Agdalla. And that's it on Focus on Africa today. If you'd like to give us feedback about the program, or even suggest stories we should cover, please send an email to FocusOnAfrica at bbc.co.uk. You can also send us a message on WhatsApp. The number is plus 254-791-269-243. Let's connect on social media with the handle at I Am in KC in Na, and that's with Dublin. Now this episode was produced by Kiegan Seishumba and Charles Gitonga in Nairobi. Blessing at Derogba was the senior journalist in charge. Our technical producer is Davies Mossaro.

22:44And the editors are Daniel Dazie and Mariam Agdalla. I am in KC, Ubun, and I'll speak to you again soon.