"I’m 50 With No Retirement Living Paycheck-to-Paycheck"

0:00Brought to you by the EveryDollar app, start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Farouin's Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show alongside the Natalie Attire George Campbell. Bringing out another beautiful winter jacket. Love seeing the jacket make it appearance. Just happy to be alongside my good friend George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. And we have a fantastic studio audience today out in the lobby. I got to tell you, they just look like they're excited to be alive. And here, and so we're grateful to see you all as well. Handsome audience out there, George. Absolutely. Let's go to Anne who starts us off in Cincinnati, Ohio. Anne, how can we help?

1:03So, I am 50 years old. I have no retirement, no savings, nothing. I am not, I'll be honest, so I'm not going with money growing up. I don't have a relationship with my family, never been taught. I held the manage money, how to budget. And I would like to start 2026 doing that. And I'm just overwhelmed with how to start, where to start. I know the snowball, the dead snowball. I just, you know, I also have health conditions where I was out of work for a month in October. I was in the hospital and it's just snowball and I feel like I just can't catch my breath. And I don't know where to start or what to do. Okay, well, you came to the right place and we're going to start with two words. It's possible. Because you understand the baby steps. But the idea of how to actually make it work for you seems like an absolute impossibility.

2:03True false. That is true. Okay, great. So, we start with it's possible. Alright. So, George, let's do our thing. Let's get into the details. Let's get some numbers. And the fact that you even decided this at 50 is amazing. Because I know you think it's too late for you. But there's someone who's going to call in probably today who goes, hey, I'm 62. And I got nothing saved. So, Anne's doing great. She's got a 12 year head start. And so, it very much is possible and we're going to dig into the numbers here to give you a tactical plan. So, are you working full time right now? Yes, I am. Okay, what do you make? What do you bring home every month? I bring home right about 1,400 a month. Okay. A pay period. What do you do every two weeks? So, 28. Yes. Great. And are you renting right now? I rent, yes. What's your rent? 15. Woo! Okay. So, I'm just throwing up the flags. Flag number one. Over half of your income is going towards rent.

3:04So, there's one problem to solve. We'll put a pin in that. Now, tell me about your debt. How much debt do you have? My debt is medical bills. And then, again, one of the worst things you could possibly do is like payday advances with incredibly high interest rates. What's the balance of those? The balance of those is 10. 10K total between the medical debt and payday? No, between the medical debt is right around 15. And then the cash advances is 10. Okay. Any other debt? No. I do not have any credit cards. I don't have any of that. What do you do for a living? I work in a medical office building. Doing what? I'm kind of like a patient advocate type thing like receptionist. I work with patients. Are you hourly or is that your salary that we got from you? I am hourly. What is that rate? 23, 77.

4:04Okay. And then I'm curious about your physical stuff that's going on. Are you on the other side of that? Is that going to be a lingering thing that will cause issues for you? Because you've mentioned it. That will be something that will linger. Is that affect your ability to work? No. There are times that I have to be off, but no. Okay. So you're still pulling 40 hours a week and all that? Yes. Okay. Now what other bills do you have? Because are you going, you know, kind of beyond the pale here into the red every month? Because you don't have enough money with the 2800 and so that's your turning to pay day loans to fund the gap? Yes. Okay. Because I have electric, gas, internet, cable, card insurance and a card payment. Okay. Are you doing any investing right now through a retirement plan? I'm done. Okay. Good. Because you've got to focus on this debt.

5:04Yeah. We didn't catch the car debt. All I heard was the pay day loan and medical debt. What's the car debt? I apologize. The car is 450 a month and it's right around 16. And what is it worth? It's a 2022. I would say it's probably worth it. I mean, I really haven't looked it up. And homework assignment number one, because if we can get out of this car, we just gave you over a $5,000 raise. Are you tracking with me, real numbers here? Yeah. Okay. So I'm telling you, Kelly, blue book is what we're looking for to sell this thing. And then you're going to get a cheap car. So let's say you've got, I'm hoping, what kind of car is this? Kia K5. Okay. And you owe 16 on it. So let's say you come away with four or five grand in equity. That's what you're doing.

6:04That's what you're putting towards another car. And now you saved yourself 450 bucks a month, immediately. Okay. Okay. For your budget's huge. And George, I'm jumping in and getting ahead of the game here. Now this is great. But what's your apartment situation? Are you in a lease? When is that up? Um, it's actually a, it's a home to three bedroom. One death home. It is up in April. Okay. You don't need a three bedroom home. You're, yes. Unless you have two roommates. Okay. Fantastic. That's where I was going. That'll cut you down to $500 a month, wouldn't it? Your share. Uh, yeah. Around here. A one bedroom is about 1100. 1,000 to 1,100. What about, what about some elderly couple or, uh, uh, an elderly lady who's got a groom over a garage? I just believe in most cities in America. You can get below a thousand bucks a month if you find something like that.

7:04Am I, am I nuts? Okay. Tell me if I'm wrong. But the, the other thing is so our parameter for your rent, your mortgage is a quarter of your after tax monthly income. And so for you, we're talking about 750 is really where you're going to max out. Or you're going to max out in order to accomplish any financial goals. And so as long as you're in this lease, you're going to be stuck because you have no margin. As long as you have this car, you're going to be stuck because you have no margin. But see what we're doing and we're looking at all the things that you can actually control, even though it feels like they're immovable objects. Well, I got to have a car. Yeah, but you don't need a 2022 car. You can have a 2013 and still not even driving a 2022. I got to have an apartment and they're expensive. Sure, but you have three bedrooms and you only need one. So let's get two roommates. Go on Facebook, find an air, you know, if you're in Cincinnati, jump on. There's a Cincinnati roommate Facebook group and vet them, interview them, meet up with them for coffee and say, hey, I'm looking for a roommate. It's going to be 500 bucks plus utilities. And all of a sudden, you just cut $1,000 off your rent.

8:05And if you sell the car, you just cut $500 there. That's $1,500 extra dollars a month you would have. You understand what we just did? Yeah. And so you're $41,000 in debt. If you could throw 1,500 at the debt, you're done in 27 months. If you do nothing else. And I would cut cable yesterday. Because we're not going to be watching the latest season of survival. Oh, the latest season of survival. We got to probably get a second job on top of that. And I want more work nights and weekends. That's it. More income on top of all of this. George, what can we give her? Every dollar is a great star and I'm going to give you my book, Breaking Free From Broke. It'll walk you through the entire plan with tons of ideas to help create that margin. Hang on the line in. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, as we head into the new year, I want you to take an inventory of all of the junk you're carrying.

9:10You know all those things you have to do, all those things you think you should do, all of the past hurts, all the past pains, all the past guilt and shame, all of it. When the world feels heavy, it's important to look in the mirror and consider maybe for the first time, setting down that old weight and choosing not to carry it forward into 2026. Therapy can help you identify the heavy stuff, set it down and move forward with clarity so you can focus on who you want to become in the new year. If you're thinking about therapy, check out my friends at BetterHelp. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the leading online therapy providers in the world, trusted by millions. They have an average rating of 4.9 stars out of five. And it's easy to fit into your busy schedule because it's totally online. To get started, just answer a few easy questions and BetterHelp will connect you with a licensed therapist who will fit your needs. And if it's not the right fit, you can change it any time for no extra cost. You can't feel lighter without leaving behind what's been weighing you down.

10:13Go to BetterHelp.com slash Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelpHELP.com slash Ramsey. Alright, next we go to Samantha who's joining us in Knoxville, Tennessee. Samantha, how can we help today? Hi, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate you taking the time to take my call. Sure. So my husband and I got married last year and we're currently on baby step number two. I didn't think we had that much debt and so I was like, oh, we can get this data quick. It's gonna be great. Well, when my husband graduated high school, he had an agreement with his mom that if he went to college that she would pay for it, which is amazing.

11:14I thought she must have paid it out of pocket or got a personal room, but it wasn't until about three months ago when my husband checked his credit score to find his credit had dropped drastically. And that that's when I learned his college was paid through a federal student learning his name and his mom had stopped making the payment. When he asked her about it, she said that she forgot about them and she would start paying them again. Well, since then, she's continued to forget and I told him and she told my husband that we need to call and ask for a lower payment plan so she can afford it. I want to just take over the payment ourselves, since it's his loan and pay the student loans off ourselves. But my mother-in-law wants to pay for it and she doesn't want us to pay them, but she keeps like, kind of forgetting and kind of ruining his credit score and we're hoping to build a house soon or buy a house. But we can't do that with his credit being where it is. Although my credit is good, I still worry how it will affect, you know, us getting any sort of loan.

12:21And I'm also worried that if, you know, we pay them until she could pay us back, I'm worried it will become one of those like, oh, borrowing money from family type situations and it'll put our strain on the relationship. Overall, it just feels like a very yucky situation. So I was hoping to ask for some advice. Do you think in any way that your mother-in-law is playing some passive aggressive game here? I don't want to say that. No. I've been doing this too long. So now you just told me something without telling me something. I'm not saying that she is. I'm feeling that it's possible. And when I asked you if you think she's doing that, you went, well, I don't want to say that. But that to me says, you think it's very possible. And I think it's possible. In other words, here's what's not computing for me. She keeps forgetting. And then she reaches out and says, hey, can you call them and see if they can lower the payment.

13:29So a person who says, like, I don't think she's forgetting. And then I also don't buy the idea that when you said to her, well, we'll take over and we'll pay it. She goes, no, no, no, no, I want to pay it. I don't think she wants to pay it. And I think, and I actually don't think, you can come over the top ropes here. And Samantha, you can tell me I'm wrong. But I'm giving you my gut read here. I think she wants you to forcefully take this thing. Like, I think she wants you to take it. But she feels shame. She's embarrassed. I think there's a lot of emotion going into this. And her resisting is really not resisting. She wants you to be. And when I say forceful, I don't mean ugly. I just mean, I think she wants you to go, no, listen, listen, it's okay. You've been great. We're going to take a mom. It's my loan. We're going to do it. I think she wants you to do that. I don't believe that if you were to do that, it's going to break their relationship at all. Sure. That's my take.

14:29And that's what I was thinking too. I was thinking that, you know, if anything, it helps her out. Obviously. There might be like a sense of pride there, you know, that's like, hey, no, I want to take care of my son. I know that it was a very hard transition for her when we got married. She had a really hard time with it. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. She had a hard time when you guys got married. Well, she's just not like a hard time. Like, I mean, we get along and I go over there every week. You know, we're great. We're very simple and all that. But she just kept telling my husband that it just felt like she lost him to me and all of this. And so it was very hard for me. Now I know I'm right. Now it's not a feeling. Everything I just said is completely fact. You could chisel it in stone. This is a passive aggressive thing. And you guys have got to be the adults here and create the boundary. I'll shut up because I've now said my piece, George, but boy, do I know I'm right now. Let's let's put some tactical pieces on this.

15:30You need to take over these payments and go, well, we didn't know we were in debt, but we're in debt. And that means we're not ready to buy home. And that stinks. And you have every right to be angry and upset and frustrated with mom for her irresponsibility. Frustrated with your husband for not knowing all these years that he had these debts in his name. Which by the way, if they're in his name, he's signed some paperwork. Sure. Well, I think what it was is, you know, he went into college right after high school. And he uses a kid, basically, as we all were. And I mean, and it's fair to trust, to trust your parents, trust the people. I mean, I remember when I got my student loans, they were just like, yes, I'm here. You're good to go. And I was like, oh, okay. You know, and I did it because that was just, you know, what they told me to do. Yeah. So I just think, you know, and I don't like that about student loans. We just signed, you know, basically everything away. Oh, we've done high school. You're preaching to the choir here, Samantha. There's a lot of, there's a lot of predatory stuff going on there. That's for another day. But right now the issue is mom can't pay. And you need to take this on because it's hurting your household. So now it's about protecting your household.

16:30Yeah. And so you don't need to have a blow up conversation with mom. You just need to say, hey, we're going to take over the payments. Thanks for what you've done so far. We got this. Yeah. Absolutely. And now, how much do you have left? So I'd like to say, I also have a student loan. She has 17, around $17,000 in student loans. I personally have $12,000 in student loans. Okay. And I, my own student loans right now are in forbearance. They're in some sort of safe plan, which some federal court, you know, hasn't decided on the payment plans. And so they are, every time I've called, they're like, no, no payments are necessary. I log into like my federal student loan account and whatnot. And it says, no payments are due until 2027. But I was looking at it the other day and I noticed that it's still requiring, like a, recruiting interest. Yeah. Forbearance accrues interest. I don't know. Yeah. You miss that in the fine print. But that's the issue with these safe plans. People think, oh, my gosh, thank you, government. As your balloon, your, your balance balloons, unbeknownst to you.

17:33Sure. So that's like a very low payment. But it's our biggest, like currently other than his student loans, that's our biggest debt. What other debts do you have? You got 17, 12. What else? So I've got my vehicle has a little over $5,000 left on it, which I plan to pay off in a couple of months. And then his has 9,000. And then I have a credit card that has right at 9,000. And then we have furniture that we bought when we were freshly newlywed. I know it's kind of a stupid thing. How long you've been married? Now we got married in May of 2025. So not only a year. Oh, my gosh, you guys are truly newlyweds. Yes, truly. We are. And I'm trying to do it the right way and get everything. What's your household income? Yeah. So we bring in $7,000 a month. Okay. Good. So here's the deal. You're going to list all of these debts out. You're going to have a come to Jesus meeting tonight and list out all of the debts. Smallest to largest. Break them out individually. Not 12,000 student loans.

18:34But hey, there's seven with all these different balances. I don't care who's dead it is. We're going to list them all. Smallest to largest balance. And then we're going to tack the little one. Do you guys have anything in savings right now? Yes, we have about $4,400 in savings at the moment. Great. So baby step 1,000 dollar starter emergency fund. Which means 3,400 can go towards knocking out a few of these debts. Sure. And do you still have the credit card open? Is it in your wallet right now? No. Yes, but I don't use it. I have not used it. It's already cut up. Last year I actually led a Ramsey class. And I taught a Ramsey class. Wow. And I put up my credit card then. Good. Okay. Have you guys made progress since then on these debts? Yes, yes. Okay. What's been your plan thus far? Like are you doing the debt snowball? Are you doing an every dollar budget? Yeah. I were doing the debt snowball. My bank does it connect to the every dollar app for some reason. But I've been, I have a note that and I check our transactions every single night. And I take it out of each one item.

19:35Okay. Well, this was one of these, you know, you, you had a pile of debt and now we just added to it. And so we just, it's just going to delay the, the debt-free journey. But at least you are clear on where you stand. Absolutely. Yeah, I really appreciate your help. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for calling. And I was thinking when you were talking to her about the, you know, the government trusting the delay, you're like, oh, thank you, government. Yeah. It reminded me the old phrase. Politicians, the only people that when their hands are cold, they put their hands in your pocket. Oh, that's a good analogy right there. I love that. Sorry. I just had to get that out. That's just an equal opportunity offensive statement. I don't care what party you're in. They all, they just put their hands in your pocket. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance.

20:35Or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. Oh, you're telling me for decades, Dave. I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me too. And they don't know what to do next. Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not miss this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly true. These are the two options. Take care of your dad-gum family. Term life insurance can replace income, have dads, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah. To just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team of Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable.

21:36I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. All right, George, we're going to your old neck of the woods. Boston, Massachusetts, Tiffany's waiting for us there. Tiffany, how can we help? Hey there. Hi. So, um, funny. My being moved to Boston in 2022 from Charlotte, North Carolina. And we play months being here, you know, for the long haul. But we got calls that my job is being moved back to Charlotte, North Carolina. And my husband got offered a leadership role with his group in Charlotte. Wow. That worked out.

22:36What are the chances within the same day, within an hour? You know, let's sell the house and move back to Boston. I mean, in fact, Charlotte with our family and whatnot. So, we're walking away with about probably close to a little over 300,000 from selling our home. And I'm torn on what to do next. We're limited in our buying school because of schools. My sons get ready to answer middle school. I don't want to, you know, we'd rather bring them back to where he knows everybody and whatnot. But I don't see myself, or see us staying there after he graduated high school. So, I was crunching some numbers over the last week or so. And I'm like, does it make sense to buy another house in Charlotte? Or to rent, um, because, you know, in maybe invest or maybe buy a house that. Maybe we see more long term or, you know, on the coast or whatnot. So, I'm just kind of torn on which direction we should take.

23:38How will that our next factor? So, a couple quick clarifying questions. He's just starting middle schools. Or what are we saying? Five years, six years? Exactly. I'm thinking in like six to seven years now. Six to seven. And then, okay, let's fast forward. Neighborhood. Okay, great. Let's fast forward. It's his senior year, final semester. And you guys are moving to wherever or you're in preparation. How does that affect your jobs? Can you do those jobs remote? Or you guys check cash and out of that too? Yeah, so I guess it just depends on. So, you make very good money. We'll be actually getting an increase when we move back to Charlotte. And causal living is drastically different there. What will your combined incomes be? Yeah, it will be about 350. Okay. All right, keep going. So, yeah, can you stay with this company? Or how's that work? Yeah, we can stay with the company, you know, work for major financial institutions. They're all around, you know, the country. You know, my husband loves the job.

24:40So, even we're okay with even staying in North Carolina, staying in Charlotte. But maybe just not that where we, you know, where you would be for five to seven years. I totally understand. So, you got to stomach it for seven years so that he can go to the school he want them to go to. Right? It's a good question. I'm going to defer. I've got an opinion, but I'm going to defer to my financial guru, buddy, next to me. Here's how you're thinking. You have a strong financial position. You guys have no debt and savings, and you'll have 300 grand. Yep. I would buy a house and I would pay it off. You have a car loan. Yeah, we could get a car. I would clean that up as soon as possible, probably before you sell the house, whether you're in your fantastic income, just knock it out. And once you guys, you know, sell the house, I would just move as soon as you could. And, you know, to buy a house and you put 300,000 down. What is a house going to cost in that area? Yeah. So, we were looking in like the 400 green, 400 to 500.

25:40Oh, okay. We didn't want to go anywhere crazy, like here in Boston, where we have, you know, we're in the one point three. We're looking the paper. I was like, well, I want you to know. I'm trying to split the difference. Could you get a $556,000 home that you love that you can see yourself in for a decade? Well, see, I don't like the houses that I've been living in. No, I knew it. So, you've been involved in it. You hate, oh, your sheet is awesome. Let me, let me say this, Tiffany, so you don't have to. We're doing this for a kiddo because of his friends. Yeah. But she don't like that area very much. What area is this? I don't know. Am I right? You are. Yeah. No, don't buy. I would buy the cheapest house possible is what I was going to say 100%. I'd go smaller and cheaper than you'd even think just because it's temporary, but I think it's long enough that buying does make sense. I would never rent that long. So, I'm with George on that. But I was thinking, let's go with small and as cheap as you can stomach because you're only doing this for a year.

26:40Tiffany's going to call back in two years and say, I hate this house. No, she's not out of here. No, she's focused. She's thinking about the next house. The other thing to think about is resale value of what is an area that actually is going to grow and appreciate so that this is a good financial decision as well. That's what concerns me. So, I've been doing a lot. I'd like to crunch numbers. I was looking at the resale value right now. Everyone in that area who purchased during the boom of 2019 or upside down on their homes. What is going on in this area? Then this is the area with a great school that you want your kid to go to. I don't think it's a great school. It's just the school he knows. It is a good school. I'll call it a good school. It is a great school. Highly rated. Wait a second. You can call it good and great. I just feel like kids are resilient. If it's a wonderful neighborhood with a great school, he can flourish. I'm playing with you, Tiffany. I'm having fun with you. I'm having a blast today. Here's the deal. Because of that, I believe that you should go smaller and cheaper.

27:42In other words, so let's say the top level houses are 400, right? Probably closer to the eighths. That's the cheaper, the 450 is what I was thinking. But I know what you're saying. Those are the ones where people are under their underwater water. Yeah, but I'm saying like, is it just you hubs in the kid? Yeah, we're small. We're three. I'm going to tell you something. I don't even want a big house. See, okay, listen, I'm going to tell you something. And this is me. And that's what Dave has trained us to do is to answer these questions. Obviously, within our principles, but how we would do it. And if I'm you, I would, because this is a limited amount of time. And your mind is already on the coast. I mean, you got the 4Ss in your head. I think. Sun, sand, sea, and salt. Am I right? Yep. Come on. That's how I like to roll. That's why I moved to a cute little coastal town outside of Boston. Yes. By the way, you're completely addicted.

28:42Once that sea water that gets in your, you can't go inland after that. You can't go inland. So here's a deal. Because of that. Yep. George Tiffany, if it were me, I'd be buying like a town home in a decent area. And I'm going small, too bedroom. If anybody wants to stay with us, kick the kid out. He can do an ear mattress. I mean, that's me. And I know that that's, but my, if my wife were here to be like, you're so intense on all your decisions. But, but I don't need four bedrooms. Hey, and that's so, it's so funny because we went from 4,000 square foot home in Charlotte. Because that's how they build them. They build them huge. Yeah. We went to a cute little 2,000 square foot cave. And I told my husband, I'm like, I love it. I love the cute one. What does your husband think? We haven't brought him into the picture. Does he have opinions or is he like, whatever you want, honey? He's so easy. He's excited. We're going back to North Carolina to be closer to family. We're looking in the same neighborhood as the sister and their kids. So the kids are all going to be back together playing.

29:42There's a little positive. It's just not where I, I've never felt Charlotte from New York. Right. Okay. But you're good mom. There's no question. I think God's hand is all over this. I don't think this is the universe. I'm just going to say that. And I think that because of this, if you take that 300,000, you need to pay the car off. And whatever's left, get a cheaper house smaller. Yeah. Good, a good real estate pro. RamseySolutions.com slash agents. And get somebody who knows what you're trying to do. And I think you put a huge chunk down knowing you're going to get all that back. I think you're going to get some appreciation in seven years. But there's no risk. And you've just lowered your payments. And with that combined $350,000 salary, George. They're sucking money away like crazy. And then she goes to the coast. Yeah. I was going from an $8,000 a month. Oh my gosh. Too probably when I was printing numbers, like 20, hundreds. I'm like, where are you at that? We've never really, you know, it's interesting to go to the very first call.

30:47In 8,2800, if you buy what I'm telling you to buy, you buy some $250,000 town home or 300,000 out of town home with 200,000 down. I'm stacking money for the coast. I'm like an animal for seven years. I'm thinking of the coast. I'm thinking of the coast and I'm stacking money like crazy. You stack 100 grand for seven years. And invest that. You'll have over a million bucks to put towards this coastal home that you guys dream enough. So I think you're on the right track. I would just say let's go with some research and some patience and a pro. If you're waking up tired every morning, you don't need more caffeine.

31:54You need better rest. And that's why Casper mattresses are engineered to help you sleep deeper and wake up refreshed. And this isn't just one Georgia's opinion. Thousands of five star reviews prove it. Plus, Casper mattresses ship free and come with a hundred night trial. So you've got nothing to lose. Sleep is a must and you deserve the best. So go to Casper.com slash Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey for 25% off mattresses and 10% off everything else. That gives you up to 1,200 bucks off the snowmax mattress, which is the exact one I sleep on every night. That's Casper.com slash Ramsey code Ramsey exclusion supply. All right, if you're working the baby steps the best way to do it is by using every dollar. Now, it's more than just a budgeting app. Now, we've built the baby steps into the app and it has a coaching component.

32:57So it's a whole different product, fantastic. You can track your progress, get personalized recommendations for your situation. And you can get coaching. Did I tell you that in the app? It's unbelievable. So it's like having one of us walk with you every day. I don't know what that would be like without having to. I think I would probably be a lot more fun to walk with than George because he's just so neurotic. Well, I feel like you have probably a mall walker's pace, which I think is a good pace. Yeah, I'm a good pace. It is. If you're walking with me, you're going to be a little tired. But you're going to feel good about it afterwards. If you're walking with George, you're going to be reminded of all the things that could go wrong in the world. Is that fair? It's encouraging. Yeah, that's accurate. No, I'm kidding. I love George. Folks, it's just a joke. Just sarcastically. We're actual friends. That's right. You can start every dollar for free today by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Let's go to Madison who... Oh, this is where George went to college, I believe. Hey. Mobile, Alabama. Madison, how can we help? Hey, guys. Glad to talk to you.

33:57So I have kind of a calculation question. How do you determine or calculate what is appropriate to spend on a vacation? And I'll add the caveat that this would be for our 15th anniversary. Hey. These are some of my favorite calls. I'm going to let George lead because there's a good chance I disagree with him. Let's check off a few boxes. Are you completely debt-free outside of a mortgage? Yes. And do you have an emergency fund saved up? We do. Great. Okay. And how much are you planning to spend on this vacation? If you could just dream it up, how much would it cost? Well, that's a dangerous question because I'm both the nerd and the spender, so they're free spirit. That means you've done the research. So let's not dream it up. Let's just think it. You've been thinking about it. What's the range that you think this is going to cost? So somewhere in the 5,500 to 8,000 range all in, like flights, food, coffee at the airport, like everything. How many days? Seven whole because 15 years deserves a whole week.

34:59Let me tell you. Okay. And what's your income again? Did you tell us this already? No. I didn't. What's the combined income? We're about to have an income change. I'll tell you kind of in a couple months where we'll be. We will be at combined 135. Awesome. And when is this trip going to happen? October. Okay. And do you have the money now? Are you guys going to sort of save up with a sinking fund to get there? Kind of a kind of a both ends. So we're in babysit 4. We're investing 15 percent. Everything extra is going to orthodontics or something comes up with the house. You know, we have the cash on hand to save up. So we've got a little bit of it saved up enough to get the tickets at this point. Right. So you can sort of start that, start the cash flow and then continue saving for the actual kind of spending on the trip and all that. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And there's no budgetary strain between now and October to save the rest of the money. It feels tight, but maybe it's just because it's a decision between, well, we don't have a lot in the 529.

36:04Do we put more there? We got five kids. So there's a. You definitely need the seven-day vacation. All right. The kids' teeth can be straightened out later. I got to tell you that. That's kind of our thought. Madison, you're going on vacation. Congratulations. Oh, George, yes. I say go. Yeah. And don't think twice about it. The kids will be fine. Great. Oh, I know they will. We're cashing in on the green parent situation. So I know they'll be fine. I'm not worried about it. I don't feel any guilt or anything. It's more like. No, I meant the 529 and all the things. You'll make up for them. I'm just going to make up for that. This is huge. I should say this is a big deal. And yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm excited for you guys. Well, that makes me feel better. Very good. And I'm counting down the days. By the way, where is this trip? Do we know? We're looking at St. Lucia. Oh, you had to say it was karaoke for me. You could have started with that. And Ken would have been like, I don't care. You're going. I'm telling you, I'm half pirate. I love the Caribbean. I love everything about it. If it's got St. in front of it, count me in. Yeah. That's another thing.

37:04That's pretty much it. I'm just saying something. I'm like, yeah, sure. I'll go there. Love it. Love it. Love it. Unless it's St. Louis, I guess I'm not looking forward to it. Oh, George. My 15th anniversary. Now you end up finding everybody from St. Louis. Wonderful city. Just not where I want to go from my 15th anniversary. I think that's fair. Fair point. Yeah. You pulled that out of the ditch. So I want to make sure the good people of St. Louis. Yeah. Nobody wants to go to the top of the ark and take a selfie. For your 15th. I'm scared of heights. So no, thank you. Let's go to Gina in New York City. Gina, how can we help? Hi, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. I'm just wondering what I should do with the $6,000 that I have saved. Should I save it for April? Because I know I'm going to have to pay my taxes. I'm an independent contractor. Or should I apply some of it towards my $9,000 credit card? Do you have an idea what you're going to owe in taxes? So last year I made more money than I ever made before. And this year I made more than that. And last year I ended up having to pay $8,000.

38:07So that's why I'm like, maybe I just need to hold on to this and keep adding to it until I know exactly how much I'm going to have to pay in April. Smart. That is wise. Here's what you don't want to do. Okay. Is you use all this money to pay off debt and then tax time comes and you go, I owe the IRS money and I don't have it. That's a dangerous game to play. Okay. So I would wait, do you do your own taxes or do you work with the tax pro? I work with an accountant. Okay, great. So I would do that as soon as possible so that you know the exact number that will come out of that account on April 15th. And it sounds like common sense here that it's going to be closer to the $8,000 if not more based on what you told us. Yeah, I'm just, you know, with these possible like overtime tax right off that they're, you know, that up and going around the rumors. My husband, my husband has a regular job and he does overtime and he does a lot of overtime. So I'm just wondering how that's going to factor into it.

39:07Well, let me just stop you right there. We don't base us on rumors unless it's legislation that's been signed then we're just fantasizing. And if it is, it's probably not for the previous tax year. Well, his employer actually sent him an email saying that in, you know, 2025 when you file taxes for this year for 2025 that there's some type of a tax benefit for all the overtime. Okay, I would just look into that with your account. Yeah, we just want to make sure. Okay, so homework is file your taxes with the accountant, find that number that you're going to owe, make sure you have that and anything above and beyond that we can start attacking the credit card debt sooner. But yes, I would be just stacking cash right now and not use it all toward your debt. This is sort of a sinking fund to make sure that we are covered come tax time. All right. Thank you guys so much. Absolutely. Great question. George, it's such a great reminder. We don't want to hear something from somebody or we read something that we're not quite sure about.

40:10And it involves taxes. We want to get on the phone today. You don't have to have your tax statements or you're withholding forms to call the accountant. So she should be on the phone and Gina, you're listening, you're calling your tax probe today to say, I've heard this is this true based on this. And again, they can give you ballpark, you know, but if it's significantly more money you made last year. Again, just the way I would take it, I would put more back, I would be saving another couple grand minimum. Yeah. Pretty darn soon. And a good reminder for anyone who is self employed 1099, you should be paying quarterly estimated payments on the IRS website to avoid this gigantic scary bill that you can't afford. It's true. On April. And so log in every quarter and work with your tax pro for use tax software. You can calculate how much you should be paying in taxes and to send the IRS some money ahead of time. Yeah. Absolutely true. Stacy and I, before I came to Ramsey, we had our own company and our accountant had us do that.

41:13We were paying quarterly taxes. Sometimes we'd get a little bit back if the estimate was a little bit too much, but you'd rather that. Yeah. Well, you could get hit with penalty and fees if you don't do that. That's true. So you want to do it by the book. And if you guys want a great tax pro, a CPA enrolled agent, we've had them. We have a whole network of tax pros to connect you to that will help you just like Ramsey would. So you can reach them at ramseyslutions.com slash tax pro and find one in your area. Don't wait. Don't be that person who's April 13th. I guess I should probably look into getting those taxes done. I like to get them done early. I don't know if you can tell just by my face. I'm a guy who's like, let's knock this out. Yeah. And this might shock you because I tend to be a little bit c to the pants. I as well like to get as soon as we get the stuff. Wow. I can get it right in. Get the paperwork. Yeah. We got a local tax pro. And I got the double the double whammy benefit. My tax pro works in the office for my smart vester pro. Wow. So it's all insane keeping it in the family.

42:13I like one stop folks. One stop. Take care of it all. Kent's dentist is also in there. That's wonderful. And I get a haircut there. We're looking for a masseuse by the way. You already know the power of generosity and the best gifts make an impact now and eternally. That's what pre-born does. And you can trust them to do it well. They don't just offer free ultrasounds. They support pregnancy clinics across the country with ultrasound machines, training, grants and evangelism tools. They're faithful with each dollar so moms and crisis can see the life in their wounds. And here's the truth that brings eternal life because here's the thing. When a mom sees her baby on that ultrasound screen, she chooses life 80% of the time.

43:13And your gift of just $28 covers the cost of one ultrasound. Or if you're able, you can purchase an ultrasound machine through pre-born and have it placed in one of their clinics so women will choose life for years. Your donation brings hope and truth when mothers feel alone and fear is loud. So I'm asking you to give to pre-born today. Even just $28 to provide one ultrasound. Go to pre-born.com slash Ramsey or call 855601-2229 because every baby saved is more than a life preserved. It's a life changed. That's pre-born.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Ken Coleman alongside George Campbell. We're excited to be here for you today. The phone number to jump in. Triple 8-825-225-8825-225.

44:25Tim is up next in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Tim, how can we help? Hi, thanks, Rick and my call. Sure. Back in 2023, my wife and I did IVF. And the IVF medical company we went through didn't have the greatest billing department. They made some errors, building up for things we didn't get done. And we addressed it with them. And now it's two years later and they have sent it to collections. We're getting calls and mail from a question company trying to get the money back. And we have to know, hey, this hasn't been resolved on there. And we don't want, we should pay this sort of amount of money that's left over. So we kind of seem stuck. I mean, on one hand, yeah, we just pay and be done with it. But for me. No, no, no, no, no. Let me jump in to ask. When you, you said just now that you resolved this. When you resolved it in the past and they, somebody acknowledged that those were erroneous charges,

45:27do you have paper record, like electronic record of all of this? No, I'm sorry. What I meant was it wasn't resolved. Oh. And we had, so we paid what was supposed to pay. But was it erroneous billing? We haven't paid that yet. Who did you pay? When you say you paid what you're supposed to pay. You paid the IVF call. Oh, that's correct. Yes. Okay. And then you got a separate bill from the IVF clinic or from straight from collections. Because they should be IVF clinic should have been sending you bills first. Correct. Yes, they did. And we, we reached out to them saying, yeah, this is incorrect. It needs to be rectified. They said, oh, we'll take care of a look into it. You know, months, months, months went by. I mean, pretty much years. And so now is the first time we're hearing most collection companies saying, hey, is there any bills from the company? Right. Now, my next question is, do you have records of proof? Can you prove that you never got these services?

46:27You never got the otherwise bill? Is there some paper trail between you and the clinic that would prove that you never got the services that they're billing for? So in a sense, yes, the code they put in for the services that we had, we never had done. So in a sense, yes, I have that. And maybe you can even ask the physician himself because we know him as a friend and he could say, yes, that was never done either. Tim. No, no, no, no, no, no, Tim. This is like, dude, I would be talking to the doctor who's my friend. Well, we actually have and unfortunately he doesn't work there anymore. Does it matter? And does it matter? Can he validate? Okay. Can he validate on the record that these, he never treated you in the way that they build you? It's a yes or no question.

47:27I asked that. What? I mean, I can ask him again. That's not, unfortunately, it's on his area, his, his expertise of billing. We can try again to ask him. No, no, no, no. Again, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm a bulldog on this because you called for help. Okay. So George, back me off here if, if I need to back off. This guy is the doctor who treated you and your wife. Yes or no? Yes. Okay. And you have talked to him about this before to say they have charged us for services. And I'm not going to ask you to say what it is. It doesn't matter. But, but you've talked to him about it and said they've charged us for this. And, and, and you didn't do that. Have you had that conversation with him? Uh, yes. And what did he say? He agreed. Yes. I did not do that. It was more so it's not something that he has knowledge of as far as billing. I didn't say about billing.

48:27I'm saying they've charged you for something and he has acknowledged or can acknowledge that he did not treat you for that. Forget the billing part. He can testify. Yeah. Yes or no? No, that hasn't happened. Okay. What my point is is he could testify. He could do an affidavit. He could, he could do, I mean, if I was going to fight this, that's where I would be going. I know I'm going, we know the doctor and the doctor said he didn't do this. And so if, even I got to hire a lawyer, George, not a lot of hours, but just somebody who can, who can say, we're going to fight this and here's how and we're going to tell the company to pound sand. We're not going to pay you for this. Have you been in contact with the collection company? I have. I let them know the erroneous bills. They put it on cause. Okay. They came back to us about like a month later saying we reach out to this company, the IVF company. And here's what they say. You still owe it. So they're not really doing that. No, you need to request, you need to get a debt validation letter.

49:29Yes. Okay. And then you need to get the itemized bill from the clinic that's correct. Yeah. And those two things, they should be in conflict. The itemized bill says one thing that says you don't owe. And then the collection company then has to get rid of the faulty debt. Let me take something else I would do. If this were me, Tim, I would literally go into the clinic and ask to meet with the office manager, whoever's in charge. I mean, when you get on your schedule, like a retroactive coding audit from the billing department and you were, you just mentioned the word compliance. They're going to be like, oh crap. And you mentioned the doctor and go, I'm willing to ask our friend to go on the record. Like we're just playing around. Do I have a business in our area under God so I can go into the office now? The IVF. Why wouldn't you lead with that, Tim? The place isn't even in business. So there's no billing department to deal with. Nationally, they are in other state, not in our state.

50:29Okay. So get in touch with the corporate billing department. Yeah. And say, hey, this location closes down. I have this bad debt. I need a debt validation. I need an item wise bill from you guys. I need a coding audit. Here's the account number. I feel like this is partially on you, Tim, because you've been letting this just fester for years. And you just gave up and went, well, I guess we'll just deal with that five years from now. And so you can definitely handle that. Like Tim, honestly, if we were to have a doctor come in here and check my blood pressure versus yours, I'm more pissed off about this than you are for you. Like, this is you are in the right. Yes or no? Yes. Yes. Say it with some conviction, man. Like, fight, fight this. This is obnoxious because Georgia is the expert on this. It's my belief that he does all of these things. Everybody gets together. There's the powers that big get together and go, okay, this guy, Tim is right.

51:29And not only is Tim right, I'm waking up at 2 a.m. in the morning thinking about Tim. And I'm done. As I promise you, if this were me, this thing would be resolved fast. I would not let slumber to my eyes until this thing was handled. And so Tim, this is where you got to be the squeaky wheel. You've got to be contacting them so often. They've got your number, like they've got it listed. Oh, Tim's calling again, who wants to handle this one? Yeah. And eventually you're going to get to the bottom of this. The truth is you just gave up too soon. Yeah. And nobody over there, by the way, over there being the clinic and the collection, nobody over there cares about you. Sure. And the healthcare system in general is full of incompetence. And so your job is to be so persistent to correct their competence that you win the game. That's a flip it. From they don't care about you to, they care deeply about making this right so they never have to think of your name again. This is the level of intensity.

52:29The sword of righteousness. It's a fiery sword. And we are swinging it and everybody in our path because you're trying to screw me. You can just look into the church. The calendar might have flipped, but the way to win with money hasn't changed. Living on a budget, staying out of debt and building wealth intentionally. Now, here's the deal. Most banks make their money when you don't do that. They're fine if you stay broke and frustrated. And that's why I recommend Fair Winds Credit Union. They actually want you to win with money. Their smart bundle gives you a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, and the new Ramsey Be Weird debit card that says debt is normal, be weird, right on the front.

53:33It's not just a card, it's a statement. Because every time you use it, it says you control your money. Your money doesn't control you. So this year, stick to your plan, don't chase gimmicks or points, and partner with a credit union that helps you make progress in the baby steps. Visit fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to take control of your money and stay weird. Fair Winds is federally insured by the NCUA. The Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by Why Refi If? Default or private student loans have taken over your life. Why Refi can help you breathe again with a low fixed rate plan that fits your budget. Visit yrefi.com slash Ramsey. Today's question comes from Hunter in Arizona.

54:40My dad gave me an RV when I was 18. I'm now 24, married, and have two little girls. It is a very nice RV, and I'm very well accustomed to the RV life, but my wife refuses to live in, quote, something that doesn't have a foundation. We could sell our house by land with cash and live for free instead of paying our $1,500 mortgage every month. My wife would prefer to move into her parents and pay $850 a month for rent and utilities. It's a great deal, but I think owning land and having no payments other than utilities is much better. Which is the better choice? I don't like any of these. Yeah, these all sound like, because if I'm reading this right, George, one option is sell the current house by land with cash and live in the RV. Am I reading that right? It says and live for free, which means the RV. Yeah, that's not a plan. But he already lays out that the wife's not doing that, and she counters with, let's move into our parents house. Her parents house. None of these are good options. It sounds like to me.

55:40Well, it sounds like everybody's unhappy. The question is, is the $1,500 mortgage is that sinking them right now? We have no other information on this. We don't know. Yeah, we don't know. And so let's assume they can afford it. I think they just don't like paying it. Based on their framing here, we could sell our house and buy land with cash. Yeah, this guy wants to park the RV on the land. His wife's like, no chance. I'll say no and raise you. We move into my parents house. Who wants to move into their house? Live with mom and dad or live. I don't care what the bad is. Both of these are terrible options. I would rather you guys go rent somewhere if you can't afford this mortgage right now. If it's a really crisis situation, I'd sell the RV. Yeah. Stay in the current house. You said you're accustomed to the RV life. Your wife refuses. I don't think she even likes the RV life. And they're fairly certain she hates the very concept. I think it's okay to admit your life changed. And yes, it's sentimental because your dad gave it to when you were 18 and you will grieve that.

56:41But it's just the thing going down in value. It's just a hunk of metal. And so if you want an RV in the future, you can always buy one. But if you're in a pinch, I would sell it, pay off any debt you have, get to a better place financially. And then see, is this mortgage sustainable for the long term future? The only RV I would ever buy would be the model from Christmas vacation. Oh, the exact replica? If you could. Yeah. If you could find that year, that model. That's probably a hot commodity. I don't think so. It's a piece of crap. But then you could basically save it. It's just like it's nothing. And I would, this is cash. This is me. And I'm basically parking it somewhere until the day after Thanksgiving, at which point I create a Christmas display somewhere. Hey. With that. Charge five bucks a pop to walk in there and all of a sudden. Pace for Christmas. A billion dollar idea. You were doing custom cocktails in the little RV. There's a guy in the lobby that's already ready to go. That's actually, you've had worse ideas. And you know what it is. Everybody gets a mousse glass. You see where everybody? It's like, I'm going to charge you too much for the Christmas cocktail.

57:44But you get the mousse glass and you get your picture. And I have a cousin Eddie guy standing out there in his robe. The whole thing. If this was Shark Tank, all the sharks would be chomping at the bit for this idea. I got to find me one of those RVs. Stacy's going to hate this idea. We'll look at the break for the record. All right. Seth is up in Los Angeles. Seth, how can we help today? I'm in a contract on a house that I still have time to back out of. However, I'm realizing the solar lease is problematic because it's 22 year contract. And if I want to buy out the contract, it's $45,000. No, thank you. Why are we not making the seller buy it out as part of the deal? The seller in the contract that we're in escrow on said that the solar goes with the house. So I haven't posed a new option. Sure. The solar stays on the house. But you should not be on the hook for this whole thing for his bad decision that he's now trying to get out of.

58:46Yeah. Is it? Yeah. It's just not worth it. Yeah. It might be a next of Kim's scenario to where they're just they're getting rid of the house and they don't want to pay into it at all. So I don't know the entire situation, but I do I think it might be a next to Kim just trying to suck up as much money as they can on the sale. 100%. So this is Ford. How much did you say? The buyout of the house, the solar of the solar is $45,000 over 22 years. That's if I want to buy it out. It is a, I think they call it a balloon release to where every year it goes up by 3.5%. And so right now my electric bill would be 145 ish and by the end of year 22, it would be 316. I wouldn't I'm currently living alone and probably would not use that much electricity. So what made you agree to this?

59:47Yeah, why did you sign the contract? I didn't realize it was that problematic at the time. Did your realtor not go, hey man, just FYI? The contract was sent to me. The realtor did not realize it was a 22 year contract and the buyout of it. I have to do that digging myself to figure out what the buyout was because they did not give her that information either. Well, you know what, it doesn't matter because you're telling me you can get out of it, correct? Correct. Walk away, man. Get out of this thing. Think about it, you're paying new system money for old panels. A new, a new whole new system should be less than 45,000. Your 22 year lease kills any resell value because you're not going to be in there for 22 years. You're assuming all the risk for the solar, the maintenance, the roof issues, and there's zero upside. You didn't get the tax credit, you didn't choose the system. This was a terrible deal all around. So I would say, dodge the bullet and get out of this. Yeah.

1:00:47That is initially my thought process as well. The question also poses if it's about 25,000 below comps. And the seller is paying for all essential costs of realtor fees and inspection fees and those things. It's still not worth it. You're still on the floor. You're trying to talk yourself into this. That would go, hey, if you want to cover the buyout, I'm in. Otherwise, no deal. Okay. That's it. You play hardball now. Yeah. You got walk away power. I hope. Yeah. There's other houses that you can get a deal on that aren't stuck with this terrible debt attached to it. All right. So, hey, this is very simple for us. We walk away from this one. Turn your favorite walk away song. Whatever that is. And get it in your head before you call them up, you know, maybe walk on by you too. I don't know. That's what I would choose.

1:01:47I'm going to call them, get it fired up, pumped up, tell my realtor, I'm done. And then let's see what the negotiation looks like then. By the way, one of our amazing teammates will rudder just texted me. And at the RV is a 1971 Ford condor camper. I'm interested in buying anything with the name Condor. Okay. Strong. Do you know what I'm saying? Like that sucks me in a little bit. Are you seeing any prices for those? George. I see one bid for the chance. What are we talking about? I need to know what the market is. Yeah. The one you sent me will is right in the range. It's pretty good beat up. And then I would hire an artist to make it look like the one in the movie. You know what I mean? They could probably do with it some type of sand blasting or something like that. It looked like it had a lot of rust on it. You coming up with anything? You're not the only one can. I just found a forum where someone said I'm looking for the motorhome like cousin Eddie had in the movie. Oh yeah.

1:02:47You're not the first one to think of this. I never said I was. I think this guy wants to get to your business ideas. But I don't know how many people are thinking about turning it into a seasonal bar. See, I'm thinking money maker. This feels like a retirement dream because it's going to cost you money. I don't think it's going to make you money. I disagree. And talking to your life cost is buying one of these things. All right. We'll stay with the research and see what the market is. Do you want to take a guess? I'm going to say it would cost. I'm going to say people are charging 50 grand or more for something like that. If they know what they got. Who doesn't know they have a condor? There might be some old guy out there who hadn't seen a movie since 1968. I don't know. It's the greatest Christmas movie of all time. I think if you got a condor, you know you got a condor. You know what you got. Haha.

1:03:58I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys. I started my company on a car table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you. Your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paycheck, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got NetSuite. That was years ago. And we've never looked back. See, NetSuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours. Over 43,000 businesses already run on NetSuite, including a lot that started just like you. And now with built-in AI, NetSuite is helping them even more. It's one system connected to every part of your business for real-time insights.

1:05:00Not guesswork. NetSuite AI flags, inventory issues, cash flow risks, even supplier delays before they become problems. So you can trust the data. Stop wasting time and make the right decisions faster. Take a free product tour today at NetSuite.com slash Ramsey. That's NetSuite.com slash Ramsey. All right, Jeff is up next in Minneapolis. Jeff, how can we help? Yeah, I just want to get some money advice or real estate advice, kind of both, I guess. We will allow both of those today. We're feeling very generous. Awesome, good. Go ahead. What's up? Okay, well, the real estate part of it is it's our daughter's house that I'm wondering about.

1:06:03She got divorced about a year ago. And she got the house. She also got the mortgage with it. But there's plenty of, there's about half of it. She has good assets, you know, half the value. But she had to refinance it for half of it. We can't afford it. So we've been helping her. And just wondering if we did the wrong thing, probably co-signing for it so she could qualify and. Oh, you co-signed for the mortgage. We did, yes. For the refinance, yes. And you're helping her. She can't afford payments right now. She's going to school and working part time, yes. So how much are you guys giving her every month? Very varied. I mean, sometimes she'd come up with a full mortgage. Got close to Christmas there. We didn't even see a payment through our managers. So it's kind of been biting us a little bit there. And she's working full time? Part time. And going to school for teaching right now too.

1:07:05Okay, what is she doing for work? She's working on a school setting as a paraprofessionally column. Okay, so let's fast forward. She's done with school. She's a teacher making, I don't know, $50,000. Is that? Yeah, maybe a little more up in this area. Can she afford her life on her own in this house at that time? Or is it still going to be tight? What's the time would tell? Well, let's ask you specifically what's the mortgage payment? Mortgage is $7,200 a month. So there's your answers. I don't think this is sustainable. No, I think you need to have a hard conversation with her and say, hey, we're going to need to sell this house. It's not sustainable for you. It's not sustainable for us. And she can rent for the time being, right? While she's in school. You know, around my area up here, there's not a lot of good areas. How old is she? She's 43. And we're kind of just looking out for the grandkids mostly.

1:08:07How old are they? 13 and 10. You're going to don't want to have to see and get taken out of the house right away. I know we don't, but I know we don't. But this is not sustainable. As George said, this is... And you're a great father, by the way. Like, you are a phenomenal dad. But this isn't your burden. This could be forever. This could be... Yeah, like... She gets used to you float in two grand a month. Yeah. Why would she go up? I don't want to take that anymore. Maybe at some point she gets on her feet, that could be years and years from now. But she actually can get on her feet if you get her out of this pit. You know, that's what I say, but she could probably go for a good dump aim and somewhere cheaper and have a smaller payment for sure. Right, but that's my point. So let's get out of this house. You guide her through this. Say, hey, we've been helping you this way, but it's actually not helping. We're just spinning our tires. And here's how we want to help you. We're going to guide you through this.

1:09:07You know, the kids are going to be fine. As long as the tin and the 13-year-old are with her, they're life, by the way, has already been wrecked. So it's not the house they need. They need her. And to be completely honest with you, that house has got some traumas associated with it. So I could make the case that the best thing to do, not just funny, but I'm going to tell you what, so I could make the case that the best thing to do, not just financially, George, emotionally, I think this is the best thing to do. I'm thinking of it investment, but it's such beautiful property. Again, you know what you keep doing, though? You keep trying to justify pouring money into this pit that she cannot get out of. If you want to sell this to you, she can sell it to you. She can be yours. Let's put this way. I actually thought about that, but I don't know if I want to go that route, you know, being a,

1:10:07I don't want to own a property in the country. You just told us it was a beautiful property, and it's a great, it could be a great investment. So which one is it? It is a great investment. I don't want to live here. Okay, then we're not, then we need to get out of it. There's a lot of beautiful properties that I don't want to own, and this isn't, this is one of them. So here's the deal. Are you guys in a good place financially? You're sitting okay. Yep. You know, I'm retired, my life's still working. Okay. I mean, you guys, what's your net worth? Yeah. You do both $500,000. Okay. So you're not in a place to go buy property. You're not in a place to float your daughter, you know, a few grand a month. And I think you need to be honest with her. And just tell her, hey, we've been artificially propping this whole situation up. We love you. We want to help you. But we can't take this mortgage on, and you can't either. And we need to face the reality here. That's probably going to be very nice. Do you guys have room in the house? Have she temporarily stayed with you?

1:11:07No, but there's another, there's another, she's involved with someone else. And she's barely at this point at this house, actually, because she's at his house. Whoa. Okay. So there's another man in the picture. You know, he's got a cabin, so they're up there all the time. And keep giving us more reasons to list this house this afternoon. Okay. I agree, but I come up here in ski, and I use it as a recreational property for me. Oh, oh, oh. So now, Papa's got some benefits here. Jeff enjoys this house. This isn't about her. No, maybe not. Oh, no, I'm going to remove the maybe. It's not about her. She's in the cabin with the new dude. And you're the one that's up there skiing and telling us how great a property it is. But I don't want to live here. And I got to say for a guy who coastline on it who needs more net worth, I would be unloading this house. And by the way, this is already messy. Who's going to get all the equity when you sell?

1:12:09She will. So you're not taking a dime from the proceeds of the house. And I'm hoping that she'd have enough for she could reimburse some of the money we've been throwing up there. Well, that's a whole new conversation. Have you guys talked about that and agreed to it? When you coastline the mortgage, you said, hey, you're going to reimburse us for what we've paid you? Because that'd be a shock to me if I was your son. And this was a big surprise at the end. Yeah, I mean, you knew she wasn't going to make the payment or income of what she was making. I'm not so sure you didn't go. Well, I really like the skiing up in this part of the woods. And I could help my daughter out at the same time. I mean, can you not get a motel six near the ski slope? Yeah, I know. They tell me they leave the light on. It's actually more of the kids than me, I think. For me. Oh, no, you're all over the place, man. Are the kids staying there alone while she's at the cabin? How is this working? Well, that you guys are both talking. I couldn't hear.

1:13:09I know. That's my fault. I was trying to be a smart outlet. Go ahead, George. I'm just confused. So it's about the kids now. But the kids are staying at the house. She's at this other guy's house. I'm just confused by the whole situation. They're all at the algorithm. They're all at the other guy's house. You know, they split. You go there. They stay here. It's clear that this house means not a lot to these kids anymore. They're already getting taken every much way to different houses. So what's the difference? I would sell this and get out from under it. Take all the risk out from under your feet. And then you can go rent a spot if you want to go ski anytime you want. And with the money you save from getting out of this dumpster fire, you can afford to go enjoy some skiing. Sorry, Jeff. I mean, we're for you. You called us. You talked to yourself right into the corner. I kind of knew what you guys were going to say. I listened to you guys all the time. What's good? I'm glad we didn't disappoint. That's always good. But you're a good man. But hey, the key is, here's the principle underneath it. If you're going to help, it should be one temporary, two intentional, three conditional.

1:14:13That's what you need. Not open-ended. Not, well, it could be a good investment. And we're going to co-sign. There needs to be very clear boundaries. Anytime you help someone. Yeah. And we never loan money. So I like that you didn't do that. But if it's going to be a gift, it needs to be, hey, we're going to gift you this for the next six months. And here's what's going to happen after that. You're going to be out of school. You're going to have a job. You're going to be taking this on. We will not be giving you another dime after that. And that's not callous. That's actually good for her. Because she's a grown woman and she needs to live her own life and not be propped up by mom and dad. At this point. And he could take that savings, maybe invest in me with my Christmas pop-up with the condor. Yeah, you want this to be a safety net, not a hammock. And it's quickly turning into the ladder. I'll just ship it up to the ski area. We'll just park it outside the lodge. Be in Jeff sitting out in our lawn. Let go of the dream, Ken. I believe they call that a callback, James.

1:15:15Alright folks, you know this buying or selling a home is a very, very big deal. And you don't want to mess that up. You want to go into it, clear-eyed, level-headed, ready to go. And you do that by using our Ramsey trusted program to find a top agent you can trust in your area to make this whole process. Whether you're buying or selling a blessing, not a burden. You can find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free by going to RamseySolutions.com slash agent. RamseySolutions.com slash agent. Or we have a link in the show notes. Let's go to my friend, Ken.

1:16:15And I'm friends with all Ken's, George. You've never met a Ken you didn't like. Yeah, it's a great name. And you know, you just know it's a solid person. Ken is joining us in San Francisco. Ken, how can we help? Hi Ken. Hi, George. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's going on? So my wife would like me to sell our truck and get a newer truck. And I'm not sure if that's a great idea. And also, if I end up selling it, how much truck I could afford. Oh, this is one of George's favorite things to talk about. So hit us with the D's. Let's get into it. It's a 2004d ranger. It's got low miles. And it's had a couple issues, but I'm able to work on a truck that old. And I like low registration and insurance payments. And I own it out right. And can we say that's a fantastic truck that let a little forward ranger. I missed those old ones. Yeah. Perfect side. That's the truck I would have if I was a truck guy.

1:17:15Yeah, I was getting ready to say short guys like us, we drive. If we drive trucks, it's a forward ranger. No question. Okay, so your wife, what does she think about this? She's thinking it's a death trap. What is her reasoning for why you need a new truck? Yes, that's exactly it. She believes it's unsafe for the kids. And also has a bad paint fade. So I think she just also doesn't like driving it around just the curb appeal is off putting to her. She doesn't like the patina, huh? Now, where are you guys at financially? Do you have any debt? So we have zero debt besides the house. And other than that, we have, we have high old savings account with approximately 125,000. Okay, buy a truck, dude. What are we doing here? Oh, no. There's no need to shout. I'm not saying don't buy a brand new truck, but could you get a new to you truck for what's your household income? It's approximately 330,000. Oh, boy. Your wife has just got the patience of Job.

1:18:18Dude, this is like extreme cheapskates level. This is wild. And by the way, it takes one to know one when George says that. If I'm telling you to buy me trucks. Okay. So what truck would your wife like you to have and what's the price point of said truck? So if I was to get a new truck, I was looking at a used Toyota Tacoma, maybe in the 2020 year range. So approximately $30,000. I would do it yesterday. Wow. Wow, George. This is all green lights. This is so fun. This is a rare truck guy. Most truck guys are broke with huge payments. And their truck payment is more than their mortgage. Can is your wife near you right now by any chance? Yes, she is. Can she hear this call? She can. Yes. Good. I just want to make sure that she heard George said, do it. You know? Buy the truck. And here's the parameter. Make sure that everything with wheels and motors in your life is no more than half of your annual income. Check.

1:19:18Pay cash. Check. Be debt-free with an emergency fund. Check. So you are all green lights. Make your wife happy. Check. Okay. You're not doing anything out of control. You should have a little party to say goodbye to this truck. Because I think it's fantastic. It's sentimental. You can frame a picture of it. Well, you know what? Actually, quick question. Because I was thinking about this. How much is that? I don't know what a 2,000 forward ranger would cost in that condition. Do you have any idea what you could get for it? I believe I could get around $6,000 for it. All right. Can I throw something out, George? Sure. Well, let me ask you a question before I throw it out. Ken, do you need the $6,000 from the forward ranger? How much do you need that money to buy the truck that you want to get? No, I don't know. Particularly need that. He doesn't need it. Okay. Can I suggest that you want to keep it? You want to keep it, don't you? He likes it a lot. You got room for an extra ugly truck around the house? Or does she not want to see it? We do have room for it.

1:20:19Yeah, I could probably keep it. That's an idea. Well, does she want it gone from her existence? Is what we're getting at? I think she just doesn't want to pick up the kids in school with it. Well, would you like to keep it? Or was this just all financial? And it was the concept of how little money you were putting into it? Or do you want to keep it? It drives great, so I wouldn't have a problem keeping it. I'm going to throw it out there. Well, here's the good news. I'm going to throw it out there. You can go by the truck tomorrow and not have to sell this one. And so it's not like an on-fire situation. That's why I'm, yeah. But my guess is your wife's about to call 1-800-GOT-Junk and get this thing out of the driveway. It's her sixth grand. Yeah, but I'm just saying she wants it gone. And for those reasons, eventually you have to let go of things. And so I think it's been high time. How long have you had it? I've had it approximately three years now. Oh, OK, so it's a new truck to you. Yeah, I had a commuter before and my commuter got short, so I got a truck.

1:21:22Oh, man, Ken, you are special in a good way. The fact that you love that 2004 ranger, patina, the paints. The six figures and savings make it $300,000. Yeah. And we're arguing over. But this is the next dorm. This is the every day. This is the millionaire that you don't see coming because he's rolling up in a 2004 ranger. I love it. Ken, do you mind asking what is your retirement portfolio? Right now I have a 457 with approximately 380,000 in it. Fantastic. He's rocking. What's your house worth? The house is between 900 and a million. And what do you want it? We owe three 15. Fantastic. So you guys are baby steps millionaires. Yeah, no question. Yeah, thanks to my dad listening to you today back in the day. That's amazing. Well, here's the cool news. I'm not saying you should do this and I wouldn't.

1:22:22But you could buy a new car because we tell people, hey, if you're going to get a new car, you got to wait till you got a million dollar net worth for a simple reason. It's too much of your world wrapped up in something going down in value before you hit that milestone. Okay. Yeah, I'm just, I like the cheap insurance and registration. I hear you. And I'm sure you've been your research to find what trucks have the cheapest insurance. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. This guy researches something like this guy could sub in for you. Absolutely. You two are a while. You can do a car segment. Exactly the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd swap this Ken for this Ken any day. Well played. I love it. Well played. And I don't blame you. He's far more your kind of guy than me. He needed a win today. I was feeling like a little funny, Dutty. And so it feels good to deliver some good news. It does, doesn't it? Really important. By the way, I do think it's important. We have new people all the time. So I'm thinking new listener, new viewer. I want you to explain again a little bit more detailed as to why we do that formula of how much the car versus...

1:23:23I just think it's important to explain why. Easy math. If you have a household income of $100,000, then everything with wheels and motors in your life, that could be an RV, about cars, should not add up to more than $50,000. Half. That's the top limit. And why? The reason is those things are going down in value. So you got to depreciating asset. And so if you have $80,000 worth of car and you make $100,000, that is so much of your world that is literally tanking. And so you don't want to make these decisions, especially with debt. Because here's what we see. They buy the $40,000 truck with a payment. So it costs them $50,000 and six years later, that thing is worth $20,000. So now you've got a real problem. You're under water within a year on this truck and you've paid way more than it's worth. And that puts people in a bind. So the good news is you pay cash for a car, you can never be under water. That's exactly right. Because let's play that scenario out. Let's go what you said. So if you have a million dollars in net worth or more and you buy a brand new car and something, you know,

1:24:27life changing financially happens, where do you sit? Well, you're sitting with a paid for car that you can unload. No debt with a sizable net worth. That's right. So you can stomach the depreciation. That's right. It's all about ratios. And so you got to go, well, this guy makes $300,000. So he can buy a $30,000 truck. The person calling in who makes $40,000, I'm going to tell him to sell that truck if that's in their life. And so it's not that expensive trucks equals bad. It's, are you doing this from a place of financial strength versus it really being a detriment to your financial future? Yeah. We should have told Ken, and if he's still listening, give him a steak dinner tonight, you know? Absolutely. Let's celebrate the fact that your wife is going to be so happy with this decision. Oh, eat it. It's a date night with the truck. In the new truck? In the old truck. I like the old truck because you don't want to get the old grease on the new seats. I'm glad you're here.

1:25:41Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwind's Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman, George Campbell. It joins me. If all of a sudden I can't talk. Sometimes it has to do with... I have that effect on people, too. Yeah. Speechless. throws me off. I think more of it. It's a musk. That's what it is. Triple 8, 8, 2, 5, 2, 2, 5 is the number to join George and I. We're having fun today. As we always do, we're going to help you in the process. Joe is up in Orlando, Florida. Joe, how can we help? Hello, how are you guys today? Oh, we're having a blast. How are you? Good. Good. Well, I'm hoping you guys can settle a disagreement between my husband and I about paying off our mortgage. Okay. I believe we should use a mutual fund that we have to pay it off right now and he would rather do it with cash flow. Okay, give us the numbers how much to pay off the house. The balance on the mortgage is about $29,000. Okay. And if we don't pay

1:26:49it out of the mutual fund if we were to do husband's plan, what is the date? Is he attaching a date by which it's paid off through your normal income? About six months to a year. Six months would be really aggressive and a year would be a little less aggressive of course. How much is it? Nothing. It doesn't matter, but I'm just curious. How much is the house worth? The house is worth about $700,000 and give us your retirement to portfolio. We have about $850,000 in just retirement savings. And then non-retirement? What do you have? Well, we have the mutual fund that is worth about $37,000 and we have cash about another $60,000 of other liquid cash between our bank accounts. Why not just use the cash? Because we've got some other large purchases that we need to make this summer.

1:27:52Okay. And what's the priority? Is it the large purchases this summer? Yes. We need to buy another. Nothing's on fire with the mortgage. It's getting paid off. Let's say it's going to happen within the next six to 12 months no matter how we do it. Can we agree on that? Yes. Now everyone's happy already. Yes. So now it's just what strategy and tactic are we going to use to get there? Mutual fund, cash, putting extra through future income. And then these future purchases, is this going to drain the savings or do you have another emergency fund? It wasn't drain the savings. No, we just have to buy another vehicle for my son who's become a driving age. Oh, what are we looking at? What do we think about spending on that? Well, he's going to get his brother's older car and then we're going to replace that car about a $25,000 purchase is what we're looking at. Okay. I'm just doing the math. So that leaves us 35, right? Right. Okay. And what's the other big? You said plural purchases.

1:28:55We may have to replace our roof. Okay. What's that going to cost? Well, probably about 15. Okay. So that gets us down to 20. And that's if we don't replenish it and put more money in there as we go. Correct. Okay. Do you have an emergency fund separate of this $60,000 in cash? No. Okay. Well, what is a three to six month emergency fund for you? What's that amount? About $30,000. Perfect. So how about after these large purchases are complete, we replace the roof, we get the car, anything above the 30 goes toward the house, and then anything that's remaining on the mortgage, we take from the mutual fund. Deal? Deal. Then we don't deplete the mutual fund, which by the way, here's my rub with what you guys, here's what happened. Here's what went wrong. You were investing money with no purpose. Or there was a purpose and now you decided I want a different purpose than he had in mind. It's a very old mutual fund. It's a mutual

1:29:57fund that I started from a car accident money when I was quite young. So it's kind of just left over. So it's it's been there for quite some time. Okay. So this is just sort of bonus money that's been sitting around. Obviously, you're going to have some capital gains taxes. So I would look into that. I don't think that's why he didn't want to liquidate it, but that could be part of it. But I will tell you, I'm going to throw a different scenario out because you said if we got aggressive, we could pay it off in six months. If we didn't get aggressive, normal cash flow, this house is paid off in 12 months. I don't like taking a tax hit to do this. So I actually am in agreement with your husband because of these other expenses, George, I'm just going to stick to it. You guys have been very aggressive and very committed to do this. I just wouldn't empty. I wouldn't take any money out of the mutual fund. I think I'd pay this off in six to 12 months out of our normal cash flow and have the cash for all the other things that you got to do. Don't touch the emergency

1:30:59fund. That's just where I'm at. But that's only because George, I don't disagree with your opinion. I just don't want to use that mutual fund money for this. That's why I asked him to calculate it because it might not be as much as you think. If they're only taking out $5,000 and the capital gains was 2000 and then you're paying 15% of 2000, now we're talking a few hundred bucks. And so I don't think it's as scary as hundreds of thousands being liquidated. But Joe, I think there's a good compromise here. I don't think either of you are wrong. You guys are being very intentional with even paying this mortgage off. Now if he said I never want to pay it off, then I would think we'd have a bigger problem here. But it's really just about tactics and semantics. And so I think splitting the difference. I want you both to be a little bit feel like we both kind of lost and we both kind of won. That's marriage. But a great situation to be in. So good for you. Congratulations. Baby steps millionaires. I'm about to pay four house. So fun. It's a good life. Good problem. That Steve is up in Virginia Beach, Virginia. Steve, how can we help? Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure.

1:32:02I'm 36 years old. My wife is 31. We're on baby step number seven. We're debt free. Our houses paid off. All of our cars are paid off. But we're thinking about buying a bigger house. Something that's going to put us about $500,000 in debt again. How much do you have the first time? So our house is worth about 350,000. And we're not sure if maybe running it out to get a little bit of extra income. We're not going to have a mortgage on the other house and have this investment property over here. I would say just sell it, use all the proceeds to put towards the next house. And you're talking about like a $750,000, $800,000 house? No, no, no, I was talking about a $500,000, $500,000 house. Okay. Well, if you put your 300,000 proceeds that you'll get from selling yours, now we're talking about a $200,000 mortgage that you'll pay off. How quickly?

1:33:03Well, my first mortgage was probably around 160 and I paid it off in seven years. Okay. Well, can you guys pay it off more aggressively in this case? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Obviously, 10 years ago, we were not making as much as we are now. Okay. And what's your take home pay every month as a household? Every month, so I might yearly salary or combine yearly salaries, about 150,000. Okay. They salaries about $50,000 each and then we get commissions, tips, bonuses from right. So healthy, six figure income, you can easily afford a $200,000 mortgage and let's make a spit shake and go, hey, we're going to pay this thing off in three years. And that way, you're not going backwards for a long period of time. It's not a sin to go from baby step seven back to six, but we don't want to hang out there for seven years either. Why the sell the house? Why the spit in the shake? I just feel more official. That feels like a true bond. Coming from a germaphobe like you, I'm a little surprised. I would never do that.

1:34:06Just a good shake. If you kiss, you've already done it. I'm just saying, oh, I Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are too, but the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is. I'm going to save money or I'm going to get my financial act together. But without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win and our every dollar app is the game changer you need. In 15 minutes, every dollar helps you build a plan based on where you're at with money right now. And every day, the app coaches you with ways to find extra money so you can beat debt and build wealth faster. It's like having me in your pocket, helping you stay on track all year long.

1:35:10So don't just wish your money works out. You can be the one to actually make it happen this year. Download the every dollar budget app and get started right now for free. All right, New York City is where we're going next. Lee is joining us. Lee, how can we help? Hi, thank you guys for taking my call. So my question is I live in my childhood home with my sister and my boyfriend. Last summer, we saw the renovation and my sister decided to move out. So now I just want to know if she's still responsible for part of the renovation for the house. I mean, did we get her to sign anything? Did we sign anything? No, there was no agreement that, hey, yep, we're going to do these renovations.

1:36:13Well, she knew we were going to, well, she was here when we started the renovation. Yeah, but was there, we know there was no sign thing, but was there a conversation around the breakfast table with a 5050? This is going to cost about X amount of dollars. Are you in? No. Is there any agreement about this co-ownership situation? No, she's on the title, she's on the title of the house. It's our childhood house that we got from our parent. Okay, are these necessary repairs or these like improvements upgrades? Yeah, improvement upgrades. And I have a sense that you were the one driving the train. You were the leader, the ideator kind of executed. Yeah, here's the tough news. If there's nothing in writing, you can't force her to pay for these improvements and upgrades. It's like an elective surgery. That's right. So if there was a necessary, like, hey, the foundation's cracked and we both on this house, I think you'd have an argument to go, we're going to split this. But if it's, hey, I just want a new kitchen and she was there when you started it, I don't think

1:37:16you're going to have a case here. In which case, I would limit this if you can't afford it. Are you going into debt for this? Are you cash flowing it? No, no, no, no. We have cash. I just received a trust with my uncle about three years ago. So we're using that. Okay, here's what I might do. And I think is wise, you would, you should drop an agreement saying, hey, I'm putting this much in upgrades. I'm going to get that much more out of the house when it sells. That's fair. Okay. Have you already brought this up to her to say, hey, you were here or you just hitting this kind of bounce in this office? No. Well, what I was going to do is I was going to wait until I have the whole total of the renovation and then I was going to say, this is your cut. So good, you haven't brought it up. So our point to you is you don't even have a common sense argument on this one. So don't burn any calories or create any tension with your sister on this. I think you bring it up in the form of what George said. Hey, I've decided to do this as you know. And I think it's going to add this kind of value, but I'm going to get a real tears take on this. I'm not

1:38:21going to make up a number based on all my receipts. And then I want to know if you're okay. If when we sell this, I think George's advice is great. You go, or we could split this 50-50 and nothing changes. We'll both get the same amount when we sell it. But it makes no sense for her to benefit from the appreciation. You know, this house is going to be more expensive. I agree. Because of the renovations. And so therefore, she shouldn't get all the benefit when you floated all the money for it. But this is, it's part of the mess when you co-own a house, even with family. Right. It's just hard to not make it messy. So the other part is, what's the long-term game plan with this house? Are you going to live in it forever? Is there a plan to sell it? Can you sell it without her writing off on it? No, actually, there's no long-term. My daughter will probably inherit the house. How old's your daughter? 24. Okay. As she said, I would love to have this house when you're, when you're gone. For now, yeah, she might be able to afford a mortgage.

1:39:26You're not supposed to pay to a... Cool. Well, I would talk to your sister ASAP. I'd get all the numbers as soon as possible and go, here's what the total cost is. Keep it reasonable because there's a chance you don't ever get this money back. And so I would limit what you're doing. It's easy to go crazy when you're doing renovations. And they're always more expensive than you thought they were going to be. Of course. And it always takes longer. Of course. All right. Best of luck. Yeah. Thanks, Lee. Thanks for the call. Let's go to Steve, who is in our backyard here of National Tennessee. Steve, how can we help? Hey guys, thanks for taking my call today. Sure. So my questions are all regarding just getting out of debt. So I work full time and have a business that I do as well. And over the last five years, I've accumulated about $434,368 of debt. And for the business? No, that's my mortgage. It's all my debt. I had a mortgage before

1:40:34the business. Okay. Outside of the mortgage, how much debt do you have? It's $166,307. Okay. And what is that comprised of? It's my vehicles. I have two vehicles. My wash card, my car, credit cards and loans. What are you taking home from the business each year? Last year, I ended up cleaning 37,000. That's not great. How long have you been running this business? About five years. Are you running? Are you running any of your expenses through the business? Are you only getting 37,000? Yeah, I'm running all my expenses that I can't through my business. We had about $99,000 in revenue, but pay taxes on the 37. What's your household income? Is your wife working outside the home? She does. She works somewhat of a part time full time. She's making about 30,000 a year. And I'm

1:41:42clearing about another 80 at my job full time. Oh, so you have a full time job on top of that? Yes. Well, you buried the lead there. I was like, oh my goodness. How are you guys surviving? So the 37 that you paid yourself as a side hustle? Yes. Okay. I feel a whole lot better. I was like, this dude's been at it for five years full time. I was about to tell you to shut the business down, man. It was going to get bleak fast. I'm sorry. So you guys are making $150,000 a year. That's before taxes. Sure. Yeah. Gross household income, $150,000. Okay. What's your question? Well, my question is that I'm overextended here, big time. You know, I'm all my payments and everything. You know, it's it's more about how can I get this cleared up and start actually making putting money towards, you know, our retirement and things as opposed to just paying all these loans? Well, it's interesting. You're driving your retirement right now. Those cars were your retirement fund, but you decided I want a nice car instead.

1:42:47What's your combined car payment? It's 1752. Goodness gracious. What are these cars worth? $1,700? Is that, did I hear that right? Yes. Yes. Well, there's your answer. Yeah, I've got one Jeep that I owe 56,000 on and I've got a Honda, you know, another Honda car that owe 23,000 on. Yeah. Both of them are combined at 1752. Yeah. So you've got about $80,000 in cars and you make 147. So that's a major problem. And the parameter is no more than half your annual income tied up with things of wheels and motors. And so you guys are over that. And even if you weren't, I would tell you to sell these. You don't need a 56,000 dollar Jeep right now to live your life, do you? No. Okay. So we're going to sell both these cars. Are you under water on either of them?

1:43:49The one Jeep I am. Last time I hit Carvano with it, they were all for it. Well, Carvano is going to give you pennies, dude, because they got to make a profit. Yeah. Go to Kelly Blue book, find the private party value and sell this thing yourself. Facebook marketplace, auto trader, get these cars listed and make sure that you have the difference in cash or personal loan from your credit union. And then you're going to need a little bit of money to get some beta cars. But is your wife on board that you guys are about to be living a very different life for a short period of time? Yeah. And she's, you know, I've already talked to her. And yes, she's on board. She was, you know, hurt the, the Honda's her car. I bought it in 25, 24. And she, and the car that we had, you know, it was paid, it was paid off. And she's like, I don't need a new car, you know. You just got excited and went, you deserve one, babe. No, there was a repair coming. And we had either the one owner, I went on, I went on her car. Oh, we spotted it on the, took it down there to get it repaired.

1:44:52And they gave us a good deal on it and then wanted to buy it. Great deal. Leaving you guys broke was a terrible deal, my friend. So you can clean this up. Sell the cars, get aggressive, do the debt snowball, and then we'll attack the mortgage later on. Hey guys, George Campbell here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's insurance resource hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you. You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft protection, and more. And when you're ready to get the coverage you need, you can connect with a Ramsey trusted insurance pro who will only get you what you need at the best price. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash insurance ramseysolutions.com slash insurance.

1:46:02All right folks, if you fly blind and just kind of willy-nilly through your taxes, boil boy, confusing, stressful, you don't want to get yourself in hot water with any type of legalities. But with the help of Ramsey's easy to digest tax resources, you can learn how to handle your taxes with ease and confidence. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash taxes. That's ramseysolutions.com slash taxes are going to get a ton of great resources and tips and tricks to make your tax returns easy guides on filling, excuse me on filing rather, if you're self-employed or freelancer and other tools. So ramseysolutions.com slash taxes. Lynette joins us in Denver, Colorado. Lynette, how can we help? Hey guys, thank you for taking my color. I love the show. I have paid off $37,000

1:47:09in 15 months. Thanks to y'all. Wow. I didn't do jack squad every day. I would be sitting here the whole time. I'm encouraging. So I appreciate y'all. So now that I'm in baby steps three, I'm trying to look at my emergency fund. After this last year, I made 115,000, but after everything comes out, that includes my retirement that I was doing. It drops me down to about 74,000. And now I've upped my retirement to 9%, I do get a 6% match, so that brings me up to the 15%. I'm looking at doing 2500 to 3,000 a month in emergency fund, until now, until December. Because I'm single and by myself, I'm just kind of wondering is that about what I should be doing 25% of my housing is about 14, 100 a month, making sure that's correct. And just trying to get, you know, feedback from you guys. I'm also getting 30,000 from my dad in insurance. I just opened up

1:48:12Fairwinds checking bundle. I heard about some you guys, but I haven't got the debit card yet. And that I plan on putting the 30 grand into a high deal savings account with them, until I get like $250,000 saved for a future housing. So you kind of want your guys to take. So you got like 17 things going on. Let's clarify something. Do you have any savings right now? About 2500, because I just paid off that 37,000. Okay, so let's go over the baby steps because there's some parts I want to clarify for you. So baby step two, you obviously did debt snowball. You're completely debt-free. Yes. Now, baby step three is next, which means we are not investing yet. Oh, I thought we were for the emergency fund now. The emergency fund is separate. So emergency fund is three to six months of expenses in a high yield savings account. And until you get that, we're not going to invest a dime. Even the match, I know that you're like, oh my gosh, well, I can't give up the match, right?

1:49:13Right, right. But here's the thing, doing seven things at once is not going to cause you to make progress. And the good news is, you're about to get 30K. Is that your emergency fund? Would that suffice? Yeah, I just was kind of hoping to put that towards a down payment because it's, you know, that's what my doctor wanted was to put it towards a house. Okay, but this is all, let's just look at it as a financial foundation. He wants you to be financially stable and free. That's the goal, right? And so part of that is making sure we don't have all of our money in a house and no money in savings. Because being a homeowner is one of the most expensive things you can get into. And so the proper steps, if you want to continue on with the plan, because it's been working for you, then put the 30 grand in that high yield savings. That becomes your emergency fund. And then we can invest 15% of your income, which means the match doesn't count. That is gravy on top. So you would ratchet up your retirement to

1:50:1315% and you'd get the 6% match on top of that. Okay. That way you build the habit and consistency. And if you have a job one day that doesn't have a match, it doesn't matter to you. You have the habit of investing 15% and living on the rest. Okay, perfect. And then beyond that, you can save up for the down payment with any future money. Because now you have this foundation. No debt, a emergency fund saved up. You're investing for the future. And now you can begin saving. So how long would it take you if you did it that way to save up a down payment? What's the number? 250,000? Well, because Colorado's crazy expensive. Most of the houses are 385 to 400,000 with just my income. I'm guessing I'm going to have to get like half of that down payment to be in my 25% of my pay. Okay, so how much could you save up each month if savings is covered and you're investing 15%. How much could you throw into high yield savings for the down payment? About 2500 per month. Okay, so doing the math on that that's 30 grand a year, which means it's going to take you

1:51:17seven or eight years to get there. And therefore we might need to go, all right, we need to up our income. We need to compromise on the type of house we were going to go for. Maybe it's a smaller house further out from the city for now to get our foot in the door, those kinds of things. Or you get you make peace with the fact that it's going to take you seven years to buy home. Right. And how yield is the best place to plant that? If it's going to take you seven years, I would say you can invest the money. Anything that's five plus years, you know, in the market, you're going to you have a better chance of being in the positive the longer you're in the market. But if it's one to two to three years, high yield savings is a much better bet. Got it. Okay, but you're doing great. You have an awesome income. You're debt-free. I would just sort of refocus because we got off the beaten path with the plan as soon as we got out of debt. That's why I was calling you. I mean, I just paid it off. So good for you. And you got the 30,000 already from the inheritance? There's going to be in a couple months. I want a couple months.

1:52:18Okay. Well, in the meantime, any extra money you have is going toward that emergency fund, and I would pause your investing down to zero percent because it will light a fire under you and free up money to put in that emergency fund. Okay, just until I get to emergency fund, and then I can go back to it. Exactly. Okay. All right. You're doing great. I'm proud of you, Lynette. It's all listen. Don't fall prey. Listen, Lynette, don't fall prey to your friends telling you it's crazy that you even think about waiting seven years to buy a house. Don't fall prey to that because again, what the advice George gave you, I know it's going to take seven years, and that seems like forever, but you're still single right now. And how old are you? 38. Okay. That's okay. Listen, average, you're oners. What? 40 now? Yeah. And that's number changed. And by the way, that sucks. And I hate that. It's going to be way longer than me, but that's okay. It's okay. It's way older than 45. So he can attest. And he's a young buck still. Thank you. Because you just confuse the entire audience. And I'm not way older. You think what it would constitute to let that seven years is a lifetime. Right. I mean, it is, but I'm like, it is what it is. You know, I don't want to

1:53:25be. Here's a big picture. Income is going to go up over time. You could meet someone and then have dual income. And so this is not like a life sentence. Life is going to change. Your dreams are going to change. Your city could change. Yeah. But in the meantime, just stack as much cash as you can. That's right. That's right. Big picture thinking, Lynette. All right. And let me tell you something. Let me tell you what you're dealing with. And I heard it in your voice. And I want to encourage you because this happens to all of us. Great expectations. Right. And when the expectations that we had earlier in life don't pan out, it's, it sucks. Right. And, and, and here's what happens. And by the way, this happens to all of us, relationally, professionally, physically. Right. I think of couples that maybe want to have babies and it takes years and years and years. You know, there's just so many examples of this. But, but it, it's okay to allow yourself to lament that. Right. You got it. But. Thank you. Yeah. Listen, it's okay. Cause I heard you go,

1:54:27I'm 38. You know, well, because I mean, this is the first time I started doing retirement. I know, it's okay. Like 30K. I know. Lynette, someone out there is 58 feeling like they're too late. Someone out there is 28 thinking, man, I wish I got this stuff sooner. So do not be yourself up for that. That's what I'm trying to tell you in that. I heard it. And I want to encourage your heart. You're not listening. Yes, you need to adjust now. The expectations you had for your life in this particular area haven't been met. But it doesn't mean that life in the future cannot still be really, really good. And so that's the mindset you got to have. Okay. Definitely. I'm just thankful to have the debt paid, honestly. Yes, ma'am. Listen. Listen, you're in great shape. You have much to be grateful for. Okay. Write down all the things that you're grateful for through this discipline of getting out of debt. Write all that stuff down tonight. And how proud. By the way, add a line. Add a column of what your dad would be proud of.

1:55:27Okay. And focus on that. Yeah. Get your head. God bless you guys. You too. You When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash start. Answer some questions. And we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramsysolutions.com slash start.

1:56:33All right, our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 28 verse 1. The wicked flee when no one pursues, but the righteous are bold as a lion. Our quote of the day from James Clear, the author of Atomic Habits, your success depends on the risks you take. Your survival depends on the risks you avoid. All right. Thank you. I'll chew on that. Okay. Anna is joining us in Knoxville, Tennessee. Anna, how can we help? Thank you. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm so excited to talk to you guys. Well, we're excited to talk to you. What's going on? Well, my husband and I are hoping to get our income up. And he's been looking to make a career change. Just been struggling with kind of the steps to take on that. Does he know?

1:57:33I'm so sorry. Yeah, I interrupted you. So I was going to ask, does he know which path he wants to take? Right now, we're kind of trying to narrow it down a little bit. But we're pretty sure that he would be good in the field of technology. Okay. And so when you say try to narrow it down, are we talking about specific types of roles within technology? Yeah. He's applied for some positions with some companies and hasn't gone anywhere yet because we were thinking that it would be best to just get get some experience in the field and then kind of what kind of tech job is he looking at? Because that's about the broadest category out there. So he applied to some cell phone companies. Yeah, but again, I think we're asking, are we talking

1:58:36about programming? Are we talking about engineering? Are we talking about sales? Yeah, like the what kind of role in tech? So the last thing that he mentioned that he was interested in was coding. Okay. Has he taken a coding? Has he taken a coding course class bootcamp? He was looking into that. Well, I'm going to tell you, has he done anything professional? Has he ever drawn any paycheck for coding? No. Okay. So one of the first things I would do, and this will kind of pause on this after I say this, is what good coding boot camps courses can he take that you can afford? And let's go get that because many times in those coding courses or co-ops or whatever, they have placement services. And so if he wants to get to coding, it might be a good idea to get qualified in coding and then see about the placement. As opposed

1:59:39to I'm going to go get a job at a cell phone company and then tinker around with coding. Now that would be one thing, but I want to pause here. What's your financial situation? Because you mentioned you guys need more income. So what's going on there? So we have one and a half year old going to be on the way. And so we're looking at just cost cost is what he is going to be increasing. And so just I guess I should have asked the question. Okay, let me run you through a couple quick things, sir. So George can some plug in here. What is your combined income? Your income, his income, give me both of those actually. Okay, yeah. So my husband's income right now is it's like 2700 and 3500 a month. It's fluctuates a lot. Okay. And what does he do?

2:00:44He delivers pieces full time. Oh, that's his full time job. It's never really been a full time job. It's been between 30 and 40 hours a week, sometimes less. Why is he not working more? He has had some medical issues that have been a setback. And we're working through that and doing better. Okay. Are you making any income? Right now I'm doing door dash. Okay. But I've had some other different jobs and having kids. So and do you guys have any debt? We have a little bit of medical debt. And that's it. Now how much is that? How much debt? It's a little under 3000. Okay. So we definitely have an income

2:01:52and that's the primary reason for you calling is we got to get our income up and we do. But for him to get into tech, there is there's always a ladder, no matter the industry, right? And so with him not having any tech experience or at this point, he has no tech training. That's what I've been asking, right? So it's going to be very difficult for him to get on an actual tech ladder. He might go work for a tech company, not a bad idea. But maybe he's in the warehouse or you know what I mean? He's adjacent, which is what sounds like he's been trying to do. But he's still going to have to get some basic training. So one exercise for both of you that you can do tonight is to get online. And in your area, you go on one of these job websites, there's national boards or you can go look at companies, there's local companies that you know tech companies and you look at some roles. But what you're trying to do is his research and see what is entry level tech encoding look like. And then we could say what is entry level work in security like data security

2:02:55or you know, a data analyst, you know, all the things. Get a good view of the landscape and always look for what is the lowest rung on the ladder. Because that's where he's going to enter with no experience. So then we step back further and we say what qualifications does he need? And we start with does he need a college degree? And many times at these tech companies you don't, but you do need some type of fundamental training, okay? Sometimes we're seeing more and more, where companies have their own training program. That might be an option. But you guys is a young couple with one little one and another one on the way and very little income. And you guys are out schlepping pizzas and living food and I appreciate the hustle. There's no shame in that. I don't dishonor that, but I am saying you need more and you agree. It's why you called us. So this becomes an urgent research project. Are you with me so far? Anything that I said that you're not sure about? I'm with you. Okay, that's urgent. Like we are urgently figuring out what the plan should be

2:03:59and what the plan could be. In the interim, I would like to see him get a little bit more aggressive. And I'm going to give him a couple of gifts. So we're going to give you my book, Find the Work or Wire to do it. It has a career assessment at the Get Clear Assessment. 20 minutes, it's absolutely worth it. Yes, ma'am. It's got an AI component to it and it'll spit out suggestions. And that'll help verify or give him some more ideas. Step one, I'm also going to give him the book, The Proximity Principle. And he needs to read The Proximity Principle by the end of Sunday night, he should be almost through with it. And this is about how to make good connections because it is connections that open up and unlock jobs and opportunities. You tracking with me. So those two books are my gift, but you guys need to do the research. George on the money piece, they still got some small debt here. I want to bring you in because we got a hustle through that. Do you guys have anything in in savings? Yeah, actually we do. We actually open the

2:05:00high yield savings account. We have, I think we have about 25,000. You have 25,000 dollars in a savings account? I guess I should have asked that. You buried the lead there. That's like almost your yearly income. How'd you save that up? I feel like you're not telling us the truth, and the amount of pausing is giving me some pause. Yeah, what's going on? Okay, for the shortage of time, I'm going to interrupt because George, tell them what they do with the 25,000. You're paying off the medical debt today. Any debt you have is going to get paid with that savings and anything left over is becoming your emergency fund. That gives you guys some financial cushion and some financial peace as he explores these new options. And so that's your ramp to get into this new field while he's delivering pizzas and he needs to be working more if

2:06:03his health can support it. You need to be working more as well because this baby is coming and it is going to get more expensive, but it's not hopeless. We should get him the right steps and Ken's resources will do that. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.