How Troy Jackson Can Put Collins' Career On The Chopping Block

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1:02If you're expecting or dressing little ones, check out Little Sleepies. You can visit littlesleepies.com and use promo code Good Night for 10% off your first order. From the lever's reader-supported newsroom, it's lever time. I'm David Sarota. If you asked me what comes to mind when I think of the state of Maine, I'd probably describe a haunted scene from one of its most famous residents, Stephen King, Gray Skies, Cold Rain, Damper, maybe a cemetery, or maybe something out of a travel brochure, like a rugged coastline dotted with lighthouses or a restaurant serving decadent lobster rolls. But as I've spent time reporting in Maine this year, the far-flung northeastern state has come to mean a lot more to me. As a political battleground, whose election outcome could affect the entire country, for much of its history, Maine has not been a hotbed of firebrand politics. This bell-weather state has been known for its soft-spoken senators like Ed Muskie, Bill

2:04Cohen, and George Mitchell. People who were described as, quote, thoughtful and pragmatic. Those days are long gone. Poles now suggest Maynors have reached a breaking point and they're clamoring for real change. Democrats have not won a Senate seat in Maine for almost 40 years. 73-year-old Republican Senator Susan Collins has won five Senate terms against more traditional Democrats. Most recently, she beat her 2020 Democratic challenger by eight points. I just received a very gracious call from Sarah Gideon conceding the race. What the thing is, Maine generally leans blue. For many years, it has voted for Democrats in presidential elections, and it has a Democratic governor and a Democratic state legislature. So Republican Susan Collins has survived by relying on independent and ticket-splitting Democratic voters to win her elections.

3:05That includes rural working-class voters who felt abandoned by the Democratic Party. To capture self-described moderates, Collins has branded herself as a more liberal Republican on issues like abortion, even though she voted to confirm Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh who voted in favor of overturning Roe v. Wade in 2022. The 2026 race to unseat Collins has captured national attention as Maine has been identified as critical to Democrats' plan to take back the U.S. Senate. For the first half of this year, it seemed likely that Susan Collins would lose to her opponent, the oyster farmer turned Senate candidate Graham Platner. But then in early July, after Platner had won the Democratic Senate nomination, the Senate race took a sudden turn. Platner dropped out of the race after allegations of rape were published in Politico.

4:06There was then a mad scramble to find a replacement candidate through rapid fire caucuses and an impromptu convention. The Maine Democratic Party had only a few days to name a new candidate before the July 27th deadline. And that's when they picked this guy. I first met Troy Jackson in the spring when I went to report on Graham Platner's Troy Jackson back then was the Bernie Sanders endorsed candidate for governor, a race that he lost in the Democratic primary. Now Troy is the Senate nominee, another twist in his winding and unconventional political path from lumberjack to politician. Troy Jackson's political accent started almost 30 years ago when he and about a dozen of his fellow loggers drove to the U.S. Canadian border and set up a blockade blocking the road with their pickup trucks. The blockade was a protest against wealthy landowners who were hiring cheaper temporary labor from Canada, allegedly taking away American jobs and driving down wages in the process.

5:12I saw government not being willing to stand up for people in the log industry, including Senator Collins. This was a pivotal moment for Troy, one that catapulted him into politics. They just, you know, inferiority in Maine made me understand that government's not as much as people want to make you feel like they played by the rules and do everything right and government's going to be there for you. It's not that you have to actually fight for it. He held a state senate seat in district one, a rural conservative district way up in the northern part of Maine. Later on, he served as Democrat state senate president for six years, and now he's in the biggest race of his life, running a populist, pro-medicare for all campaign for the United States Senate, and there's a lot on the line for the rest of the country. Today, on Lever Time, I'm sitting down with Troy Jackson, the man who could decide control of the U.S. Senate. And I've got some questions. Why haven't Democrats won a U.S. Senate seat in Maine in literally 38 years? Why does Susan Collins keep winning?

6:14What's changed over the last three decades? And why does Troy Jackson believe that he can finally topple the state's longtime Republican Senator? That's all coming up on today's episode of Lever Time. I'm Rick Gladstone, co-host of WNYC's On the Media. Information doesn't just inform us, it shapes how we see the world, what we fear, and who we trust. That's where On the Media comes in. Each week, we investigate how information flows, who controls it, and what that means for our democracy. It's not about the headlines, it's about the hidden structures behind them. Don't be a passive consumer. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Lever Time. I'm speaking with Troy Jackson, Maine's Democratic Senate nominee. So you've been in Maine politics a long time, and the legislature, and the like. My first question is, why has your party, the Maine Democratic Party, been unable to win

7:17a U.S. Senate seat in Maine for 38 years? And why has Susan Collins kept winning? Yeah, I mean, it's a great question. I mean, I think we've had some good candidates. I think that the Democratic Party, over time, has had a problem of not being willing to stick to, or at least come out and lean into economic issues. I believe strongly in that. I believe that we have to fight for healthcare, prescription drugs, childcare now, housing is a big deal. Like here in Maine, elder care, nursing home, and their home services are really in crisis. And I think abortion, I think that's an economic driver for people when they choose to have a family. And I just think that a lot of those things we haven't been as willing to lean into. And for whatever reason, we've lost that message. And people have gone away from the party. And I continue to talk about that. I mean, my district went from a place that you had to be a Democrat to win, to a place

8:19that they say now, or you have to be a Republican win. But I continue to win, even when Trump was on the ballot the last three times. We had some good candidates in the past. Collins was able to tell people things that I don't agree with. I think her acting like she was pro-choice clearly is not the case now, six years later. She doesn't regret the Kavanaugh vote. She's not worked for Maine. She's given tax cuts to billionaires on the backs of our health care system. I mean, it's all crashing around her. And in the other thing, David, I believe I'm going to win this election. And it's not because it's Troy Jackson, not because they got a better candidate in the past or anything like that. It's because people are sick of the government. It's people that are coming out, changing, they want change. And I'm excited to be part of this moment to get the things that I care about. But this is something way bigger than I've ever seen. So you mentioned your own district where you've represented.

9:20When you've talked to people in that district who are, let's say, voting for you for legislature, but also voting for Donald Trump, what are they saying about why they're voting for Donald Trump and the Republicans? What's the message you hear from them? Well, I think two years ago and then further back in 16, I mean, in 16, Trump was really paired in a lot of what Democrats or at least labor Democrats believe in. He talked about bad trade deals. He talked about prescription drugs. He talked about health care and some of the other things that he wasn't going to take away, reproductive rights. And so it was really easy back then to understand why a lot of people got confused. I certainly didn't, but in 2024, I think he was talking about affordability issues. I mean, you know, as you're talking about Christ of Ages and things like that. Now, he has done nothing for that. I mean, he's made it so much worse. So in two short years, people do have biremores and you see it across the state that people

10:22are sorry they voted for him. They don't believe in him. I mean, again, I mean, look, I've been to four different birth and centers closing in the last two years. Our bills close one of their hospitals right now, nursing homes across the state are in crisis. And it's all because we wanted to give tax cuts to Elon Musk on the backs of Medicaid funding. And then you have ice here in Maine, giving all that money to them or rogue agency does what they want. The tariffs, the Iran war are really hurting this economy. And people don't understand what does this mean to them. I mean, this is just something that Trump's doing. And then like on the terrace, we found out that part of this was because they wouldn't agree with Canadian government about French language. Well, you know, hold parts of Maine, our French culture, including myself and to be so anti-French to create this type of trade war is ridiculous. I mean, you know, and people are, I mean, people are coming out, they're upset.

11:25They don't believe that this is what they were supposed to get. I really can't say how excited I am. And finally, people are getting out of that comfort level and more government that they can be proud of. So in Maine, Graham Platner won a big primary victory, then dropped out of the race. I think a lot of people who are watching this know that there's been reporting that some mayors have been demoralized by what happened. I think my question for you is as the nominee now. How have you been convincing voters who might have been energized by a Platner's anti-establishment message that you're not just sort of a safe insider replacement that the party wanted all along? How are you convincing those voters who feel disappointed with what happened that you're carrying the torch? Sure. Yeah, I mean, I can understand how people can feel frustrated left behind. I mean, I felt like that a lot in my life, including the Senate president. If you're the Senate president of the state of Maine, that's the here and Maine, the second

12:26highest rank and official and still feel left behind. I mean, I can only imagine what people outside of the government. And certainly in that case, I got that frustration. And so right off, I was trying to make sure that people understood that, look, I was campaigning on those same stages, talking about the same thing, you know, about Medicare for all, about prescription drugs and stuff like that. And that, you know, I've got a long career of doing that. I mean, people, you know, when you look at my background, I mean, these are the things I've been fighting for. I mean, I've been pushing back in its billionaire since I was 11 year old kid, standing up for every day at work class people that didn't believe they could do it on their own. And I was willing to do that. And, you know, I mean, I've had like 100 bills vetoed here in the state government more than anyone in history of Maine by Democrat and Republican governors. You know, in the end, it's that, you know, working class people were the ones that I was fighting for and it didn't matter what party they were leaving them behind.

13:27So I mean, and I think the last thing about that too is that, you know, I've been very clear with people. It's like all these things that you were fighting for previous to me be the nominee are still right in front of us. I mean, we can get this. You know, we can get Medicare for all, you know, we can push back against the billionaires. You know, we can change the government. It's just going to be with a different messenger, but the messenger has always been there. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. I'm Brooke Gladstone, co-host of WNYC's On the Media. Information doesn't trust inform us. It shapes how we see the world, what we fear and who we trust. That's where on the media comes in. Which week we investigate how information flows, who controls it and what that means for our democracy. It's not about the headlines. It's about the hidden structures behind them. Don't be a passive consumer. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Lever Time.

14:28What do you say to those who argue that the agenda that you're talking about, which really is an agenda that I think people have heard from people like Bernie Sanders as an example. This podcast agenda. What do you say to those who would argue? You hear this a lot in Washington. This populist agenda is too radical. Something like Medicare for All is too radical. You hear that from the Republicans, but you hear that from some Democrats. What's your response to that? Well, that's the thing. I've been hearing again my whole life. You can do this. You're asking for too much. Now's not the right time. It's all people that are set. All people that have everything they need and they don't really give a shit about the rest of us. There's always money for wars. There's always money for roadgating. She's like ice. There's always money for billionaires like yelling on the mosque, but there's no money for healthcare. Every other country has figured this out. I'm right on the Canadian border. I do not ever have a Canadian tell me that they don't like their healthcare, that they

15:32don't like the prescription drugs. I just know better. This is just the healthcare industry. It's a big pharma with all of their power and influence, buying politicians that continue to pair it that thing that you can do this. We can do this. We just have to prioritize what we want to do with the sculpture. Why do you believe this is the year that Susan Collins will lose in the context of she's won so many previous times when Democrats have said it was going to be the year that she would lose. She's changed in your mind that makes this year the year. Well I think the challenge of going after powerful positions is once you get them you have to deliver and she's not. She's chair of appropriations committee and she's basically just a rubber stamp for Donald Trump and his agenda. She won't push back on anything. She won't push back on tax cuts for the wealthy, even though it's all in the backs of our healthcare system. She won't push back on ice even after we had a young man murdered here in Bitterford

16:38for nothing more than going to work for his family on Monday morning, which is something that everyone understands in the working class. You're getting up just to go to work and this man was murdered because he was a different color than me. She just won't push back on any of those things. The other thing that I think is so central too is like six years ago we didn't have the overturning rovers Wade. We didn't have her out there saying that she doesn't regret the Kavanaugh vote. Besides rovers Wade Kavanaugh has been a train wreck and people in Maine know that. All those things are coming to a head right now. People are getting really stretched thin on the economy, on forability, on their healthcare, seeing someone that says they have the power but won't use it. All these things are going to make Susan Collins very unhappy in November. Okay, so let's look ahead if we can just for a moment to after the election. Let's imagine that Troy Jackson, you are now a U.S. senator and the Democrats have a slim

17:42majority in the Congress. What's the one thing or a handful of things? You're going to make clear to your party's leaders who are running the show that you may disagree with them about in your new job. Well, I just disagree with, I'm not against wealthy people. I don't begrudge them or anything like that but I am sick of wealthy people dictating the rest of us how our lives are going to go. For me it's about having a perspective of working class people, union rights, workers rights. Those things are important. I mean, I'm not going to bend the need anyone on these issues because this is who I have and this is how I don't really feel like I'm anything extraordinary. I don't. But anywhere I've gotten, I was fighting for people I cared about and I'm going to continue to do that and the people in DC better understand that too because I'm not going there to kiss

18:44any rings, rings like that. I'm going there to fight for the same things that I've been fighting for my entire life. If you're elected, would you commit to supporting Chuck Schumer for majority leader? Well, I've already said that I don't support Senator Schumer. I think it's time for new ideas. That's just the way I feel. That's why I've already said. In this campaign and especially if you win, in the context of you having been in the legislature and fought with people in both parties at different times, with that context, how are you planning to keep the establishment machinery and all the money from watering down or influencing you in the sense of the economic populist agenda that you've built your career on? Talk to us a little bit about how that influence works and how you're prepared to combat it. It's just a big deal to me to deliver for people that I care about.

19:45Going back and facing people that I wanted to make something happen for and not being able to do that is something I hate. To look at people that really needed you to deliver and you couldn't for whatever reason, something that I've always dreaded. That's why I work as hard as I can to make these things happen. Maybe it's sometimes been too passionate about an issue, but this is a big deal for me. As far as down in DC, I'll do whatever I have to make people understand how important these issues are. In the main legislature, even as Senate President, I held up budgets because I believed whole hardly that they weren't right for people I cared about. You said fights with both Republicans and Democrats, but quite honestly, probably a lot of the bigger scars I have is from Democrats. I just don't care about pushing back against parties because in the end, I'm trying to deliver for the Americans overall.

20:47We're going to take one more quick break. But before we continue, I just want to tell you about the levers weekly newsletter, Midterm Madness. Every week, our newsroom brings you the elections worth watching, the money trails worth following, the numbers that cut through the spin, and the campaign moments that reveal more than the official talking points ever will. You can check out Midterm Madness at levernews.com slash Midterm Madness. We'll be right back. I'm Vr. Gladstone, co-host of WNYC's On the Media. Information doesn't trust inform us. It shapes how we see the world, what we fear and who we trust. That's where On the Media comes in. Each week, we investigate how information flows, who controls it, and what that means for our democracy. It's not about the headlines. It's about the hidden structures behind them. Don't be a passive consumer. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Levertime. There's been a lot of national reporting on Maine in the last year or so.

21:51I'm curious, is there anything that you think has been reported about Maine or the perception of Maine, the political situation in Maine that you think has not been properly represented? Are you reading a lot of the stories about what's going on in Maine or Maine politics? Are there things where you're like, that's actually not what Maine is all about. There's a real misperception here. I'm just curious how you think the politics of the state you're running in may not be being accurately represented in the political conversation. I mean, no. Actually right now, there's an awful lot of money in this state making arguments that I see. Overall, I think a lot of times people will talk about how this state is getting more conservative than second CD and stuff like that. I just think that people in Maine, overall, first and second CD, feel like government's not staying up for them, not fighting for them. And I don't care if you're a Republican or Democrat and I've been both, people want

22:56somebody in their corner and I don't blame them. That's what I've always wanted. That's why I get into this. I didn't feel like people were fighting for the people with my family, the people in my community. And so that's why I jumped in even though I was 29-year-old, naive, young man. But since then, I've figured it out. I figured out what it means. And I think that that's the one thing about the state is that people will vote for whoever they think is going to be the best for them and I don't blame them. I mean, that's how I would approach it too. One last question, there's going to be, as you alluded to, a lot of money spent against you. Like, there already is a ton of money being spent against you. They're going to say, you're the worst person in the world. They're going to make you out to be some sort of horrible, evil villain. Just for those who are watching from the outside, just talk to us a little bit about the experience of seeing yourself on TV being portrayed as like the biggest monster in the world. What do you tell yourself about that? What are you hearing from people in the community about that?

23:57How do you manage that in your own time? Yeah, I mean, I've had negative ads against being in the past, even Collins family has done that. I mean, because I represented them in Northern Maine. But obviously nothing to this extent. Finding out or remembering things that you did four years ago, I was kind of interested. I didn't see some of those attacks. But apparently you got mad at people sometimes in the legislature and yelled at people. My wife is a state legislator. A state legislator. And I'm like, I don't even understand why that's news. That's just being in a state legislature. I kind of, the stories that I've been involved in, people, I apologize to people if I went too far. But I am. I'm super passionate about these issues again, because I feel strongly that you have to deliver for people that put you there. But you're right. I think a lot of legislators are passionate. But I mean, what you're seeing here is that I have a long record.

25:01I think for people in Maine, Republican and Democrat, just based on the record, they feel very good about me. So now you're seeing all these personal attacks, family attacks, and things like that. And it's really unfortunate because I would like to talk about the issues, the issues that are affecting the mainers. And let's talk about records. And I'm happy to talk about mine. I wish Senator Collins would be more willing to talk about hers. I mean, never do in the town hall in the last 25 years. I mean, I have three next week. So I mean, we're trying to get out there and meet people where they're at here more. I mean, I have my ideas about what we need to do in this economy. But I love hearing from other people about things, because that's where I get some of my best ideas. So I don't know. The whole thing is pretty sick to me that Elon Musk is just trying to make sure he keeps Susan Collins and US Senate voting for tax cuts for wealthy people while I'm been bustling my back trying to deliver for everyday mainers that need somebody in their corner.

26:02Troy Jackson is the Democratic nominee for US Senate in Maine. A state that Democrats have not won a Senate race in 38 years. Troy Jackson. Thanks for your time today. And good luck. Thanks, Dave. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. Thanks for listening to another episode of Lever Time. Lever Time is a production of the Lever. This episode was produced by Natalie Bettendorf. Our theme music is by Nick Byron Campbell, marketing support from the Pod Glomerate. Our director of podcast production is Ron Doyle. You can subscribe to Lever Time on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're at it, leave us a comment or a review. We really appreciate hearing from our listeners, and it helps spread the word about this show. Remember, for ad-free episodes, exclusive bonus content, and access to the Lever's entire archive of investigative journalism, please consider becoming a premium subscriber right now. Head over to levernews.com to learn more about becoming a paid subscriber or click the link in this episode shown on us.

27:04I'm David Sarota. We'll be back next week with another episode of Lever Time. You're not going to be a dictator, are you? I said, no, no, no, other than day one. How did Donald Trump turn the presidency into a king? Well, it didn't start with him. It was the goal of a decade's long master plan. When the president does it, it is not illegal. I'm the decider, and I decide what is best. Where they won't act, I will. I'm David Sarota from the Lever. On our new season of the award-winning master plan podcast, we uncover the stealth plot to create an all-powerful president, or as some call it, the unitary executive. The unitary executive. The unitary executive. Our journalists reveal the hidden scheme to eliminate checks and balances, crush democracy, and turn government by the people into government by one man. I have the right to do whatever I want as president. Check out Master Plan season two, the King Makers. Visit masterplanpodcast.com or search Master Plan in your podcast app to start listening

28:09right now.