How To Hunt Turkey - Archery Grand Slam & Custom Calls

0:00This episode of the sportsman's empire is brought to you by interstate batteries. Since 1952, interstate batteries has been evoking compassion and a trustworthy spirit into the surrounding communities. Interstate batteries is a mission driven company fueled by purpose and guided by their values. If you need help locating a specific battery, stop into your local interstate batteries retail store and speak with a battery specialist. They even offer cell phone repairs. Interstate batteries outrageously dependable. All right. It's been a while since I've chatted, well, I shouldn't say it's been a while because we tend to connect a couple of times a year over the phone when we're driving to and from our hunts throughout the U.S., but it's been a while since we've shook hands and have met in person. But today's guest here on the How to Hunt Turkey podcast is my buddy John Mulligan, John what are we doing, dude? I am doing fantastic.

1:01Man, I had a super awesome leg day this morning and I'm just glad it's over with, really. So, yeah. Hey, I got a leg day coming up, but not how you think. I have a knee replacement surgery coming up in three weeks. What'd you do? Yeah. Dude, I'd just get an old and I have no contact. I slept wrong. Yeah. Exactly. No, just years of doing dumb shit and being like sports and kickboxing and doing jumping off shit and walking on places I probably shouldn't walk and here we are. I tore my MCL on New Year's Eve. Nice. That was fun. They call it a grade two MCL tear, but yeah, peptides and I was good to go in about four

2:02and a half weeks. There you go. Yeah. I blew my ACL. I want to say this would have been my football, my junior year high school. I blew my ACL and MCL. That was back when you were playing for Pulk High. For 44? No. Nope. Nope. Nope. This is back in the day where I was trying to balance working out and drinking as many bush lights as I possibly could. It's a tough feat for a lot of men. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. All right. So this is the how to hunt turkey podcast and so obviously we're going to talk about turkey and you have a unique story that we're going to get into here in a second. But before we get into the topic of conversation today, I want to send a huge shout out to our partner over at Montana Decoys. Montana actually has a brand new lineup of turkey hunting decoys. I have, I just pulled them out of the box a couple days ago, very compact, throw them in

3:05the pack. You pull them out. You undo a strap. You basically shake them like, you know, like right before you fold a basket of towels, you shake them out and then you fold them up. And so that's how Montana Decoys are. They come with a little steak, put it in the ground and you got a decoy out for their entire lineup, go visit Montana decoys.com. All right. John. Yes sir. Where did you grow up? I grew up in Lexington, Kentucky, more or less, just a little south of there, a little town called Jasmine County. But right in bourbon country, you know, would, would for reserve and wild turkey and all those places were like five miles down the road. But you know, and I've talked about this a little bit in the past, hunting was not me as a kid. I wish it was, but my dad didn't hunt and we didn't even have white tails in central Kentucky when I was a kid.

4:06So it wasn't until I moved to northern Kentucky and I started my police career that there was turkeys and, um, and white tails that were plentiful. So that's how I got into it. So I didn't even start hunting until I was like 23 years old. Okay. 23 years old. And what did you do? What did you do? Go after first. Turkeys or white tails? White tails. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I, I think that's probably the route a lot of people take, but, um, that are brand new to it. I mean, I knew nothing. Even though I'm from Kentucky, I never, I've never eaten a possum. Um, I've never, I've never skinned squirrels like, you know, I, I didn't grow up that way. You know what I mean? Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I went after white tails, but it's funny because one of the guys I was a cop with, he was from Texas and, you know, in Texas, if you live there, I think it's like four or five, like four white tail tags a year, four turkey tags, you know, you can almost hunt year round. Right. You can hunt, you can hunt killer whales if you want to in some parts of Texas.

5:09But, um, if the fence is tall enough, but like, so he was like, dude, let's get into white tail hunting. And I'm like, I don't know shit about it. Like I know nothing. So I'm, I'm about to be 48 years old. I went to the public library in Boone County, uh, Kentucky. And I checked out books on like white tail 101 and white tail strategies and, and I have since gone back and purchased all of those old books that I originally taught myself how to hunt with. Yeah. That's how we got started, just started white tails. And then, you know, the next season, it was like, you mean, I got to wait all the way till the fall to hunt again. I'm like, Oh, spring. We can hunt turkeys. So really my, you know, inception of turkey hunting was really just finding something to do in the spring for hunting because I didn't want to wait a whole year. Um, and, and, and, you know, and it also keeps you sharp and keeps you shooting your bow, keeps you shooting a shotgun, it keeps you in the woods and, and all that kind of

6:10stuff. And I was just, man, when I, I got my first taste of hunting and I was just obsessed. I wanted to find something to hunt year round. Year round. Yep. Absolutely. And I think that's a, that's a common story that, especially when you get, you're not a kid and you get into it, like we were, um, I mean, I was a kid. I was 12, 13 years old when I started hunting, but it was never anything serious. Uh, I was never forced to go. I was, and then, you know, about 26 years old is when I first started taking it a lot more serious and then we get hooked because we make the decision, not anybody else, right? So, um, when did turkey step into the arena? Um, let's see, probably not until around, gosh, I had probably been chasing white tails for about six or seven years. And then I got into turkeys and I, I want to say the first turkey that I killed would

7:10have been somewhere around 2010, 2011, I think that's when I first shot my, and that was with a shotgun, um, and, um, that was, that was the one and only turkey that I had shot with a, uh, a shotgun. And then from that point on, I'm like, well, I got this mastered. I'm basically a professional turkey hunter. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a pro. I've killed one. And it made, and that actually makes a lot of sense in today's TikTok world. If you kill one animal, you're pretty much a pro. But, uh, I shot one turkey and I was like, man, I got to go, I got to try it with a bow now. Yeah. That was, uh, not fruitful, you know, for several years, I wounded a lot of turkeys. Yeah. Um, yeah. Why did you decide to do the, like, like, cause let's, let's be honest, going in there and pulling a trigger on a shotgun is a little bit easier.

8:11You don't have to draw back. You don't have to, why was the bow so intriguing to you? I think because with my police career, shooting guns, um, and whether we scopes or iron sights or eotech and that type of stuff, I was doing that every day anyways. So I didn't really have, I couldn't make the argument that I got to keep my, I got to keep my firearms proficiency up, but I had already gotten into archery. And so it just gave me another reason to keep shooting my bow and, and, and, you know, getting my equipment better, me getting better, uh, rep, you know, repetition. So I thought, well, that's just stick with the bow for everything, you know, move it forward. Yeah. So you just said, I don't even want to gun anymore. I just want to go turkey hunting with, uh, with a bow. All right. Yeah. I mean, I carried a gun every day for a job. So I was like, I want to hunt with a bow. Nice, nice. Um, and then when did that become, like, when did you start getting successful, like on a year to year basis?

9:12And, well, I tell you what, why don't you talk us through that portion of it, but also talk us through the portion of, like, because you can't just go and some guys do it. They go right into the woods, no blind, anything like that. They draw back and they, they're able to kill turkeys. I tried it a couple of times. It did. I sucked so bad at it that I have not picked up a bow to go turkey hunting sets. So walk us through what's the, like, the strategy differences for bovers gun. Yeah. I mean, so about the time that I really got into archery is also when I was starting to film some hunts. And so, and naturally I set up in a pop up blind because I thought, man, this is a lot easier. Um, I, there's more movement, you know, and I mean with pulling a bow back and that type of stuff and plus, you know, I have a tripod and I got a camera because, you know, I'm going to be a hunting celebrity someday. And so I started filming all my crap and I thought, well, this is easier. I can kind of hide in a pop up blind, put some decoys out.

10:14Um, but I was so dumb that I thought a turkey was just like a balloon. As long as I pop the balloon, they were going to die. Yeah. And I thought, okay, that's not going to work. They have really small vitals. Um, so, you know, that changed a little bit, but hey, that was kind of a win, win because, you know, aim small, miss small. Yeah. So it really got me a little more proficient, you know, in that, in really, it was about the time that I linked up with all of you guys at White Nuckel that that's when I was really, really like, okay, I want to take this real serious, you know, with my archery and, and stuff like that. But yeah, I've been blind in the decoys and still to this day. That is my preferred go to. I have killed them, um, out in the open and dude, it's tough. I mean, I was counting it up the other day. I've now killed 50 turkeys with a bow. And I've killed two with a shotgun.

11:15And the two that I have killed, um, with a bow that were not in a blind. I mean, dude, those were just pure luck. It wasn't skill. Yeah, it was just, yeah, I, I got in such an advantageous spot that, you know, when a turkey's making a B line towards the decoy and I was just happy to be perpendicular to them. So by the time they broke my plane, then I was able to draw. Um, and that, that strategy is highly effective. But it's also terrain dictates the ability to do that as well. Yeah, that's a fact. Okay. Now, so you've kind of let us into this. You've killed a lot of turkeys with a bow. You've traveled the, the country, um, you are a successful archer who has completed their grand slam with a bow, talked to me a little bit about, um, going after like all of a sudden, let me, let me back up a second.

12:16I've never had the thought I want to complete a grand slam. I've never had the thought saying anything about like, I want to complete a super slam with my bow with elk and big horn sheep and shit like that. What made you want to go out and try to accomplish the, the, the North American slam with a bow? So a couple of reasons. Number one, I'm too poor for the sheep. Yep. Um, so that was priority number one. Number two, um, I started a company called bourbon barrel calls and making turkey calls, um, out of bourbon barrel hits. And, you know, I'm from Kentucky and Lord knows I, I drank plenty of bourbon and makers back in the day. Um, but so having that affinity that I wanted to create a company kind of based around that. And so when I launched the company, I launched it in November of, uh, 2019 and everybody's like, why'd you launch a company in the fall of

13:1819? Well, pre-mouse and night and hail and all those guys are spending tons of money in the spring, but they're not spending any marketing dollars in the fall. So I'm poor. And I thought I have no marketing budget to launch this company. So let's start it. So started it in the fall. And then over the winter, I thought, man, what can I do to really create this brand and create some hype around this brand? Because I really feel like I have a really good turkey call. And so around February, um, or early March, I went on a podcast and like a dumb shit, I make the announcement that I'm the spring of 2020. I am going to go for a single season archery grand slam. And I put it out there in the universe, you know, and then COVID hit. And I was like, and they started, and if anybody remembers, they started shutting down all these states to non-resident hunting because they were

14:18convinced we were all going to get COVID in the woods. And so the states that I was going to go to, I was going to go to Nebraska because I could get a Miriam and a Rio in the same state, uh, whether you go north or south in the state, you know, and some people call them hybrids, you know, whatever. One's got cream color feathers. One's got white. It's a Rio. It's a Miriam, you know, and I mean, um, I like in the words of Theo Vaughan, you can argue that on your own time, you know, um, but also, I was going to go to Kentucky for an Eastern because I've got a million places to turkey hunt in Kentucky. I kind of feel like I had that state kind of figured out and those farms figured out, well, Nebraska and Kentucky just happen to be two states that they shut down for non-resident hunting. So my wife goes, like, dude, I just pull the plug on it. I mean, yeah, you, you told everybody you were going to do it, but you can't control this, this pandemic, you know, that's going on right now.

15:19And, um, just bail, you know, no one's going to call you a pussy. So I was like, if there's a wheel, there's a way. So I said, screw it. I went to Florida. I shot my, uh, uh, my, um, turkey down there in, uh, just around Bunnell, South of Bunnell, Florida. So I got that bird out of the way. And then I went to Texas and I shot my Rio down in Texas. And then I went to the Black Hills and I shot my Miriam, which was super rad to hunt Miriams in the Black Hills. That's one of my favorite hunts of all time. Um, and then I was on my way, and technically at that point, I had completed a Grand Slam, but I wanted to do a single season Grand Slam, right? Right. So on my way back to Kentucky, er, to Iowa, I called my buddy Billy C. And I said, dude, I'm not going to make it. I got to crash at your house. He lives up around Tama, Ankeny area. And I said, dude, I, there's no way I can make it to my house.

16:21I'm falling asleep at the wheel. And he's like, well, just crash here on the couch. So I pulled into his house at like three in the morning. Now I had done, uh, the Texas and the Black Hills. And back to Iowa, this is all in a matter of like five days. I'm dead to the world. I was keeping five hour in monster and business at this point. And I pulled in, I crash on his couch and I'm about to fall asleep. And he goes, Hey, dude, I was thinking if we wake up in like an hour and a half, we can make it to my dad's farm. And we can just go ahead and knock this shit out right now. So I'm like, yeah, dude, wake me up. And you know, let me get a couple hours. So Billy wakes me up at like five a.m. I sit in the passenger seat. I sleep all the way to his dad's farm. And he's like, I already know where the birds are. I've got a blind set up. We're going to get this done. And then at like eight o'clock in the morning, um, I shot the Eastern

17:21and had my official single season archery grand slam done. Now, like I said, this all happened. The three birds happened in five days, but, but the Florida season opens so early. I shot that bird like three and a half weeks prior. And, and I was waiting on another season to open up basically. So, I mean, in total, I did it in five days of hunting, um, but it took 32 days, 32 calendar days. Um, so now, you know, um, it turns out from NWTF, according to them, I was the only person to complete a single season slam that year with any weapon. And, um, Turkey country magazine did a big right up on it. And, and I'm in my office. I'm looking at my grand slam certificate with all my coins and stuff like that that they presented to me and whatnot. So that was, that was pretty cool. And then, you know, again, it gave a huge launching pad for bourbon barrel calls

18:24that I can say this one pot call, and I use the same pot call on all four birds. Um, and of course we filmed it. And it was a part of my, you know, part of my show and, um, and stuff like that. So, yeah, that was, that was the reason. I mean, when it was a challenge, I wanted to do it. And why not go ahead and do it now when I can promote my company, you know, as well. Um, like I said, COVID really kind of booger stuff up. And it made it a lot tougher for me. But, um, but nonetheless, it was, it was a cool accomplishment. And I'm glad I did it. Yeah. That's awesome, man. All right. So one season you did four turkeys and four different states. You, you kind of touched there a little bit on, uh, the, the Black Hills hunt. What made that South Dakota hunt so fun? The scenery. Yeah. Uh, I mean, I shot those birds, not even five minutes away, uh, from Rushmore. Okay. Maybe three miles away from Rushmore, you know, pretty close to there.

19:26Um, so I was able to go visit that from the roadway because of COVID. The parts are closed. I couldn't get inside, but I was able to photograph some stuff. And there's a cool little turn off in the Black Hills. There's a little parking ride kind of a place. And you're really like, you're right underneath George Washington's chin. Oh, no, it's pretty cool. Yeah. So even with an iPhone, like you can literally shoot a picture up as an Austral. Uh, yeah. So it's, it's neat. And so I was able to, you know, get some cool pictures. But, you know, coming from Kentucky and Iowa, like we don't get to see mountains like that all the time. Right. And so I think just the scenery of that alone was cool. Um, and I, in my opinion, I think, the easterns are the funnest bird for me to hurt because they're so loud. I mean, they gobbled so thunderous, you know, and, but the Miriam in my opinion is the prettiest of the birds, you know, with the white tips. Yeah. Yeah. Um, a bird you don't hear much about.

20:29And I'm thinking, I'm thinking it's because, well, everybody, everybody talks about the oceanolas because it's only found in Florida, right? Yeah. But no one really ever talks about the real. Why do you think that is? I don't know. Maybe it's overlooked a little bit. Um, you know, again, they have a different color. And it's that creamy color, but it's not white. It's not bright white, you know, and I mean, uh, so I don't know if that has something to do with it. But yeah, I mean, I think, I think the Miriam, because they're predominantly found in more of your mountainous areas out west, yeah, that that makes that significant, yeah, like you said, the Osceola, like that, that's cool. In my opinion, only because there's one place to do it at, right? If there was multiple places, I think that would be the same as a Rio. It kind of be overlooked a little bit. Yeah. All right. Um, outside of that, what'd you learn about wild turkey from that hunt?

21:35From that experience. That taught me volume, um, volume and cadence. Um, Osceolas are so aggressive. In my opinion, that's the easiest bird to hunt. Um, you can flash a fan, and I'm not saying reap them. I'm just talking about flash a fan up in the air from 400 yards away. And we had birds charging at us. Um, they are just super aggressive birds. Um, the Rios, it was kind of like I was, you could get them fired up, but then you had to kind of calm them back down. It's like the perfect mixtape, you know what I mean? You got to, you got to lay down some Marvin Gaye, and then you got to kind of got to get cold with them a little bit. And then, uh, the, the Miriams, uh, you almost had to just be, it was on turkey time, you know, like you just kind of call out them. It's, you know, like I called it birds and it took them 20 minutes to show up.

22:36Uh, then when they showed up, they were hot and aggressive, but it was on there. It was kind of on their time. And then, you know, of course, you know, if you try to, if you try to call at Miriams, the way that we call it, easterns, you're going to scare, I'm my opinion, you're going to scare them to the next mountain ridge. Yeah. Yeah. Um, did you use decoys at all in, in any of these? I did. Yeah. I used decoys on, uh, let's see, I used decoys on all of them, actually. Okay. Um, the Oceola was super cool because we actually had one of my buddies was holding a decoy, and that was one of the birds that I shot in the open. And, um, I was able to, we found some, uh, it was an old chimney, um, structure. There used to be a house there and everything was torn down, but they had left the base of the chimney or fireplace. Um, and I was able to belly crawl and use that as kind of a makeshift kind of a blind, but same scenario, he was past me. So I, I called the bird past me and the bird was so focused on him.

23:41And he's just on the ground holding not, not a fan. He's just holding a decoy and, um, laying his flat as he could. And once that bird broke that plane, you know, then I was able to draw and shoot. We actually got some cool pictures of it as well. Oh, nice. No one used them, you know, yeah, yeah. What about bourbon bear? What made you want to start a turkey call company? Well, I mean, obviously you know our history with wicked and I kind of liked having a product, um, yeah, and I kind of missed that a little bit. Um, so because I love turkey hunting and, you know, my, my thing also, and, and, you know, some people know I also have a small marketing company as well. And, and I've always been a proponent of the backstory can be just as important as the product. Um, you know, if a company stands for something or has a good story to it. And I kind of wanted to test that theory with bourbon barrel.

24:44You know, turkeys prefer to roost in white oak trees. And to be an actual Kentucky bourbon, it has to be in a white oak barrel. Yeah. So when I launched the company, I also launched it with a company with an organization called the white oak initiative. And the reason for that is my degrees in horticulture and the rate of deforestation that's happening is exceeding the rate of growth to maturity of white oaks. So if we don't start planting more white oaks, then we're going to run into a problem. Every turkey call company in the world is cutting down trees or they're using plastic or some other material that is man, you know, they're creating something synthetic or like I said, they're cutting down trees. I am taking reclaimed bourbon barrels that already soaked in bourbon for 10, 15, 12 years, seven years. And they're, they're done.

25:45They've already served their purpose. So I'm not cutting down any trees to make bourbon barrel calls. Now I'm not a hippie. I'm not a tree hugger per se. But if there's a way that we can offset some of that and creating more habitat and not attacking more habitat, you know, for wildlife, then sure, why not? It's a win, win. It's a plus one situation. Yeah. Well, then there's that story, right? It's like, yeah, bourbon barrel calls made from recycled bourbon barrels. There you go. Why not? Out of curiosity, how many, how many turkey calls can you make out of a bourbon barrel? 12, 12. Oh, so it's just a lid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because the staves, the staves would be the sides of the, they're too thin. Okay. So I need at least an inch thickness to make my calls. And so the only thing that I can use is, is the lids.

26:46Okay. All right, and is this a, do you make all of those by hand? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, every, every single turkey call that's ever, so I'm up to 2700 calls that we've shipped out so far. And every single call I have handmade myself. Every striker is hand stamped by me and me only. No human has ever stamped a striker and that's been something that I've been very set and stone about was that every striker was going to be stamped by me. That's awesome, man. That's awesome. Again, and you know, as well as I do in today's world of trying to make things as cheap as humanly possible and taking away the story that you were talking about, nobody gives a shit about that stuff anymore. And so working with that initiative and then knowing that, you know, it's like, there's only one person to blame if things go wrong and that's you, right?

27:48And so that's pretty, that's pretty bad ass, man. I appreciate it. Well, and I don't know if you're working with any turkey call companies or any pot call companies in particular, even if you're working with another turkey call and it's not a pot call, I'll make this announcement. If you're interested right now, I'll make a turkey call and for you to give away to one of your listeners. Yeah, man, that'd be awesome. We'll have to, we'll make an announcement about that right now, but then we'll figure out a way to do it for maybe the next couple episodes that we release. So that's a pretty bad ass, man. And we appreciate that. So outside of that, 12, 12 calls per barrel or per, is it the top and the bottom or just the top? Yeah, the top and bottom are universal. So I can get 12 out of each. Okay, 12 out of each. So 24 per barrel. And then what do you do? Where do you, where does the glass come from or the plastic or whatever it is,

28:49the striking component? Yep. So the glass, the slate, the aluminum, the copper, you know, different striking surfaces, those I do have a company that I purchased those from. I haven't gotten to the level of making my own aluminum or copper yet. The tweakers could probably help me out with the copper. But, um, yeah, so I haven't, yeah. So that stuff I do purchase, but any of the wood components and all assembly, you know, is all, is all done for me. But yeah, there's different companies out there that supply that kind of stuff and, uh, you know, glass cutters, you just give them the specs that you need and, you know, stuff like that and they can cut it for you. And like on our custom calls, those are all a black, anodized soundboard that's under the glass. Yeah. And we can literally, we can take a photo off of an iPhone. We can do whatever custom logos. Um, I mean, like we did 150 turkey calls for loop hold. Um, we made a hundred and 26.

29:51I know it's an odd number that we made for John Dudley and knock on. And, um, Joe Rogan has one of my calls, uh, Davis loved the third Harry Connick Jr. Um, so we've got some, some famous people, you know, some celebrities, um, that, you know, have, have our calls and, and so it's, it's fun. And, and we've created another line of like, we do groomsmen gifts, like for the best, best man and groomsmen. So we do kind of a wedding thing because who needs another damn flask, uh, exactly. Yeah. So, uh, we've, we've done a lot of those. We do a lot of corporate calls, you know, they'll give them out as corporate presence, you know, at Christmas time or, you know, stuff like that. And, and so that's kind of the custom stuff is kind of been, um, my niche. Yeah. But, um, yeah, man, it's just, it's, it's fun. I mean, and I'm always looking at different stuff. Like we just released a ceramic call the other day that is so overlooked.

30:54It's extremely versatile and you can run it when it's wet as well. So, yeah, I mean, we've, we've got some cool, cool stuff. And, and then we also do some gag stuff, you know, like one year, remember those games where they had the little BB in it and, you know, yeah, yeah. So I made one of those where I drilled a divot in the soundboard and put a BB inside the turkey call. So I'm like, ah, you're in the turkey woods in your board, waiting on the turkey. You got a game to play, you know, right on your turkey. That's pretty sweet. That's pretty sweet. So we've done that, we've done that kind of Chosky type stuff and whatnot. So it's, I can do whatever I want to do with it. You know, obviously it's not publicly owned. And, um, I'm usually the type of person that's been known to go, oh, shit, I shouldn't have said that publicly, but I don't care. You know what I mean? Like it's, that's me and that's always been me. I'm going to say whatever's on the top of my mind. And, and I run the company the same way. Yeah, um, so it's, what kind of like research did you do?

32:00Because obviously, you know, you look at, I'm on your website right now and they look good, right? They look really good, but at the same time, how did, how did you know what a turkey call was supposed to sound like? Like how did you do the quote unquote research and development? So they actually work too. So there's two parts of that. The first part is because I was into turkey hunting, a lot of us, we have a lot of pot calls. I mean, I bought plastic ones. I'd go to a trade show like in the wicked days, it was inevitable that there would be a turkey call company nearest, you know, and I, either they'd give us one or I'd buy one, you know, and so I had all these turkey calls and, and there was some that I liked the sound and some I didn't like the sound. And I basically just started taking these old turkey calls and busted them open. And looking at the guts of them. So I'm like, okay, I understand this. And I have a cousin back home that was a, a lathe guy.

33:01He makes like wooden bowls and stuff like that. Yeah. And I had these very rudimentary sketches and I said, Hey, you know, I need the lip to be this. I need this to be this and I need a shelf, you know, for the sound board to sit on and, and kind of create that echo chamber, so to speak. And he turned a couple for me and I'm, I played with them a little bit. And then I started putting together a couple. And this is, so the first part was legitimate research. I was really studying what everybody else was doing and, and teaching myself, how do you make that sound? What makes them loud? Um, and then I started playing with the different materials. And here's where the luck part came in. I wanted to use white oak strikers to go with the theme of everything. You know, white oak barrels. So I'm like, well, let's use a white oak striker. So I called a company that supplies strikers in wholesale. And I said, does anybody use a white oak striker? And he said, there is not a single turkey call company that uses a white

34:05oak striker. And I thought, well, man, this would be really cool if it works as luck would have it. The first design, the first sketch is what is still being made today. Just pure luck. And the only thing I did was just using my deaf ass ears as what sounded good. And then I sent a couple out to some buddies in different areas. And they're like, dude, this is the most versatile call I've ever used in my life. How many years of research should you put into this? And I'm like, I don't know about 17 minutes, maybe 18 minutes. It just was pure luck, pure luck. I can't hear you. Right. I blew my nose and I forgot to take it off mute. Now, anyway, anybody who knows anything about business, we'll tell you that you'd rather be lucky than good any any time, right?

35:05And so it's awesome that that it, it works like that. Now there's probably some other people out there who hear that and go, you know, go, go, go, go, go. You know, like, yeah, you got an awesome sounding, you got an awesome sounding, a turkey call that brings them in. Man, well, and then here's the other funny part about this. Like, okay, we can make two or three a day on a lathe by hand, right? So I was like, I'm going to have to partner with a CNC guy that can take my blanks and he can cut my design, you know what I mean, into these spots. If I'm ever going to scale this business and actually make any money, you know, so I partnered up with a guy and he's like, well, you need like the, in the 3D CAD guys old know that I'm butchering this, but he's like, you need a DX F file or whatever. And that's apparently the code for like the extension for the CAD program.

36:07And I'm like, I don't know what that is, but I had a buddy that was an engineer at Toyota. So I called him on his free time, or maybe he did it on the clock for Toyota. I don't know. He doesn't work there anymore, so he can't really get in trouble, I guess. But he's the one that actually wrote my program from my napkin sketch drawings. And so I can say that my turkey calls have been Toyota engineered. There you go. The guaranteed for 400,000 miles, exactly, exactly. That's, that's hilarious. And the ability and your entire slam was done off that as well. Yes, all right, guaranteed to 400,000 strikes, that's awesome. Without change on the oil, without change in the oil, right. And then you can pass it down to your kids. Exactly. Yeah, go. Yeah, go. It still feel really good about it. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, it's good for another 100, bro. Just check the oil level.

37:08Yep. So you have any more plans to works. Yeah. Any more plans to, to go in and like do another slam or do anything like that? Yeah. So the very next year in 21, I said, you know what? I'm going to be the first person to ever repeat a single season archery slam. And I went to Florida, got that bird day one. I went to Texas, shot that bird day two. I went to the black hill or went, I then I came back home and I shot an Eastern here in Iowa. And then I went to, I said, you know what? Because the black hills meant so much to me the first time around. I want that to be the final bird for the two year consecutive slam. Yeah. I went to the black hills. Um, I was hunting pretty close to private and was right on the fire, you know, the service line.

38:10And I shot a bird and like anybody who has shot a turkey with a bow, sometimes they flip, flop and die right there. Sometimes they run off and die. Yeah. This bird ran on to private. And I already knew going in that it's not a state that you're allowed to pursue. Yep. Down to animal. So I run down the fire service line to the street. I'm on the street. I run down the street, run up the driveway. I get to the driveway of the house. I see a bunch of diesel volvas, old school diesel volvas. Clue number one, clue number two. I see Biden Harris stickers on the door. Okay. Or at least Biden at the time. Um, and then I see no soliciting. And I'm like, shit. So I'm banging on the door anyways. The worst they can tell me is to get fucked, you know, and then the next door neighbor comes over and he's like,

39:11of course, I'm wearing camo and I have a bow in my hand. And like in the idiot, I didn't leave my bow. I carried it with me. Um, so I'm sure that was very welcoming. But no one was home and and he's like, man, they hate hunters. They moved here from California. And they are not going to let you on their property to hunt. I'm like, I'm not looking to hunt. There's a dead bird in their backyard. I just need to go get my dead bird. Yeah. And he's like, I, I don't even know how to get a hold of him. He's like, I don't like him. They're super liberal. So I called the game warden for that area and I said, can you go get the bird? Can, you know, can you escort me to, I'm like, I'm looking at the dead bird in the backyard. And he's like, I, I can't do that. So I'm like, you got to be shitting me like there's a dead animal in their backyard. I just want to go get my dead bird, you know, and, but I can't. So I thought, you know what? This is day one. I've got 11 more days to hunt out here before I got ahead home.

40:13I'll find another bird. Well, me and my buddy, we hunted our asses off for 11 days and could not fire up another bird into bow range. Um, and that was the end of the season. Tuck my tail and went home by not, what, not being willing to just cross the line. And I mean, we're talking 20 yards. Uh, you could go pick up. Oh, I could see, I could have hooked it with a damn fishing rod and probably drug it back. Yeah, man, that's, those laws are crazy because I had to do the same thing with a mule deer in South Dakota. A handful of years ago where man, I smoked him. Yeah. And I eventually found his bed where he had been bedding, but by that, by the time I had to go locate landowners and, um, didn't get permission until the next morning. Yeah. He had already moved on. And so who knows where this buck died, but I, I mean, I smoked him and I watched him bleed out, jumped

41:14a fence, went down into a little drainage and I had to go ask for permission. And unfortunately, that's the, that's the, the rules of certain states. You can't, yep, can't go get your game. So, um, yeah, I remember you telling me that, dude, that sucks, man. Yeah, it was horrible. And it was such a, and I remember my buddy, he, he's one of my best friends. He was running a camera and he's like, all right, we get back to the hotel that night. And he's like, so I'm going to borrow your truck. And I'm going to go get something to eat. And you don't need to come with me. Yeah. And I'm like, ah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, he's like, he's like, I'll put on a ski mask. And I said, no, dude, no, I'm not taking a chance and, you know, and you know how this industry is, you know, the second you do something wrong, someone's going to jump on you about it. Yeah. So I just said, man, we go, even though it, even though it was probably, and this is where it gets

42:18weird, you know, this is a completely different conversation. But even though it would have been probably the right thing to do, yeah, is to jump the fence and quickly grab it and come back, you still have to follow the rules. And the second a guy like you or me goes and does that? We're then bait for people to talk shit on. And look at this truss pass or poach or whatever the case is. So yeah, yeah, I feel yeah. Yeah, so that was that was a shame. But, you know, I, and I mean, and I have to be careful because I'm genuinely upset that I wasn't able to retrieve a downed animal. You know, the hey, there's, there's a couple of turkey breasts, you know, that just rotted. But I'm sure, you know, by the end of the day, a coyote came in and got him or something. But nonetheless, at the time, I was so angry because I was still in that I can be the first person

43:22to do a consecutive archery. And I, when that thought kind of set in, I'm like, whoa, John, this is not why you got into this in the first place, you know, like don't, don't let your mind go there because that's a bad place to be and, and, but I mean, admittedly, that's where my head went at first, as I was seeing potential dollar signs and fame or whatever that might, brand deals that might come out of it. And, and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop that don't, don't do that. Yeah, you're doing it because you love turkey hunting. Yep, yep, absolutely. Well, that's cool, man. You very unique story, bourbon, bourbon barrel turkey calls seems to be doing very well from a, from a, you know, like a customized standpoint, or a customization standpoint. It's fun. I don't have Mercedes, but it's okay.

44:22You have, you make the Mercedes of turkey calls. That's right. That's right. Yeah, it's very bougie, bougie. Now, do you have any more plans in the future to try a grand slam again? I think so. You know, maybe, maybe the next one will be with a shotgun only, you know, I, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I, you know, I like challenges and, you know, I'll reference that movie Troy with Brad Pitt. And somebody was like, he's like, what, you're not going to do this? And he's like, no, and he's like, and that's why no one will remember your name. Yep. I like difficult shit. And I've always been that way, you know, when I look at like my, my own personal accomplishments, the single season archery, grand slam is up there. But also, like, hunts and Saskatchewan, when it's negative 39. Yeah. Because anytime I mentioned that to anybody, they're like, if that, like, no, like that doesn't even sound like fun.

45:23And in my head, I say to myself, and that's why no one will remember your name. You know, because I just like hard shit and it doesn't even have to be, and if you think about it, I never once said it was a world record. It was a Booner. None of that comes into play. I just like difficult shit, winter loose. Yeah. I like to test myself like that. There you go. There you go. Well, Mr. Mulligan, I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to talk to us about your call company, your grand slam that you accomplished and yeah, and man, good luck. This upcoming spring, because I know you'll be out there chasing them. And, uh, scare, scare and I'll miss nothing else. Exactly, exactly. So do us a favor and let us know where, uh, we can find bourbon barrel calls. Yeah, bourbon barrel, uh, game calls dot com online. We just revamped our website a few months ago and it turned out really good. It's amazing what you can get done on from people in India.

46:27Um, and, um, but yeah, it turned out really good and, and yeah, full customization on bourbon barrel calls. Um, we love it. I think this year I might bring back my grunt tubes. We, uh, a couple of years ago, I did a limited run of grunt tubes that were made from bourbon barrel, uh, heads as well. And, uh, I thought it was kind of like, oh, it's a me too product, but apparently everybody really likes the sound of them. Um, so you know, when influencers say, oh, man, I've been getting blown up every day in my DMs on number one, not true. Um, but I really have had a lot of people ask for those grunt tubes. So, uh, anyways, yeah. So I think we might bring those back this fall and, um, just like I said, it's a complimentary thing to what I'm doing already. And, and it's fun to do, um, you know, they're made right here in my basement of the house. So that's kind of fun. And other than the dust and the noise my wife puts up with it, there you go.

47:30Yeah. All right, John. Well, hey, man, we appreciate your time and good luck to spring. Dude, thank you very much, man. Same to you. Good luck.