How to Fight for Your Marriage When Life Is Falling Apart

0:00I see a couple who sits here in love, firmly rooted in faith, in conviction, and expectation that God is good. You all have navigated things as a couple that you didn't think you would navigate. We've been tested at every turn, and some of it is our own making some of it stuff that happened to us. We were young in the 20s when we got married. We got pregnant on our honeymoon way, surprised and found out I had something called enemy triiosis overlapping with pregnancy, eye-contracted Lyme disease. There was a point where he carried me to the hospital. I was like a dish rag. They said, we don't know what's wrong. It's an MS or brain tumor to be in your 30s and feel like you're near dead. And I got my life sober. Then I grabbed his hand as he was walking out and I pulled him back and I asked him to divorce me. Kevin, I'd love to hear from your perspective being her partner through those years. This is something that I would never wish on anyone. But... Julie, I'm really excited about today's episode we have some guests in the studio with us.

1:03And I've known Susie now for what? About five, six years. And I've known you as friend. I've known you as someone who's been such a champion in my life. You've spoken in my life in many different ways and different moments and it's meant so much to me. So it's an honor to bring you and Kevin onto the show today. Because I know you've been a gift to me. Your words have carried so much weight. And that's because, I mean, you're a pro in one sense and you do this, you're on talk radio, you've written over 20 books, you minister regularly, but I'm gonna be honest with you. I've grown up in that world. I've seen this stuff. That doesn't really impress me. It's who people are behind this scene. It's how they carry their words with their presence, with their intentionality, with their ability to see others. And you're someone who sees others beautifully. Thank you. And I'm excited to have you in the studio today. I'm excited for some of our listeners.

2:05Maybe are gonna meet you for the first time. I'm sure a lot of them already know who you are. But Susie, welcome to the show. Kevin, welcome to the show. We're so glad you are here with us today. Thank you. We honor the gift of God in both of you and having you on my show so often, he talks about you with such affection. It is a joy to meet you, Julia. And now it's you why. Yeah, totally. Yeah, it's hard to see you. I told you exactly. Yeah. What a gift. Thank you for having us. And for those of you who don't know, talk radio is podcast. But for you, there were podcasts. That's right. And it's also podcast too, now. It is. Yes, yes. Yes, they through radio. Good point though. Yeah. So they're like, what is that? It's back in the days when the phone was attached to the cord to the wall. Yes, cassettes. Yeah, all those things. Yeah, but now, I mean, it's been for a number of years now. It's a live show within an hour goes to podcasts. And then it's in 174 countries. And then it's in the US. Audience doesn't know it's a radio show. And they don't care because they listen to my kids. Well, they don't know what a radio show is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if our kids would know what a radio show is.

3:05Yeah, because they probably are not listening to radio in the drive. Yeah. So, yeah. But you have reached so many people by being faithful to share a message of hope through a medium. And I love how you continue to evolve and share and serve because you're a bachelor of people. Thank you. I'm excited about what you spent so much time working on. You have a new book that has just come out more than you can imagine. And I know some people might not be familiar with your story of how you trust God and how that shaped your life. I remember when I was actually pondering your book and working through the content, something came to me that trust is the territory of transformation. Exactly right. And. I wish I would have put that in the book. Beautiful. Well listen, it came out of your book. Yeah. And for us, Julian and I, we're in a season where I'm not kidding, I feel like this is an answer to prayer because your team reached out to us a week ago.

4:05We didn't even know y'all were going to be in town. And Julian and I were having a conversation about trust in marriage. So how do you trust God in your marriage when you're doing marriage a very intimate journey with someone who is imperfect? What does it look like to trust God through trusting your spouse? Where could you maybe elevate your spouse in a place that only God should have in your dynamic and that confuses and complicates dynamics within your relationship? And y'all have been doing this faithfully for over 40 years. So basically I just want to sit down and I know Julie will have great questions because she's such a good interviewer. But I want to hear from y'all what you've learned about trust and how God uses trust to bring us into that intimate relationship with him and also intimate relationship with a marriage. So that's a great question. Well, I won't give my whole back story but to give a context of what we came into marriage with because we were young in young 20s when we got married. I came into marriage with some pretty significant trauma that happened to me when I was a little girl.

5:09And it wasn't resolved. It wasn't at that time that was not done. It wasn't talked about. It was a great fight. And so that was sort of stuffed into the basement of my soul. And then right away we had our kids like a pregnant on our honeymoon wife surprise and found out I had something called enemy tree horses. So through the pregnancy they said if you had waited five years you would have no children. You will have a hysterectomy in your 20s. So if you want more kids you got to have them right away. So number two baby I was on bad rest for three months. Number three baby I was on bad rest for six months. So right away our marriage was tested because here we're young. For me I was serving in multiple capacities at church because I loved Jesus but also because I did not have a right theology about living loved. I knew I was saved. I didn't know I was loved by God. And I think a lot of people come into marriage not knowing they're loved. They may have a right theology on salvation but that is a revelation that has to get deeper and wider and more impactful as you grow. It's not a once and done thing. All of that was being tested to go to bed for all those months.

6:12In the six month pregnancy, six month bed rest with our third pregnancy the doctors let me out for one day. I was getting depressed. I was feeling insecure. My friends were getting tired of me. I could see the fatigue. He never made me feel bad but I could see the fatigue on his eyes. He was carrying the weight of the world. And my college roommates went for lunch. They were six months long. Had to go back to bed that night because I was contracting again. So I was one day up and within two weeks of that out in my face went numb and my vision started to blur. My memory started to go. And long story short, I was bit by the deer ticked my one day up. And so overlapping with pregnancy, I contracted Lyme disease. And so that was the beginning of our marriage where literally I was army crawling. The medical debt was exceeding our income and he was carrying us through. So we had to learn a lot. I mean, there was a point I told Christian on the broadcast of record before this that there was a point where he carried me to the hospital. I was like a dish rag. I mean, to be in your 30s and feel like you're near dead.

7:12And he kind of put me on the, you know, in the yard brought me in and laid me down. And they said, we don't know what's wrong. It's an MS or brain tumor or something else we don't know. And I had my life's over. And it was like dead of winter at three little kids. And he brought me home. It was gray skies. I'll never forget it. And he had to scoop me up out of the car and carry me in and put me in bed. And I just started to weep. And I grabbed his hand as he was walking out. And I pulled him back and I asked him to divorce me. And I wasn't being melodramatic. I was weeping. I just thought, I can't bear this. I wanted to put a period at the end of a sentence that God was writing because I felt like the debt. I felt like I was costing everybody. And I said, I want you to divorce me. I'm going to go live with my mom and dad. And you marry someone who's feisty and full of faith. And we'll love these kids. And I'm just loving. And he just stopped me. And he's this gentle, giant steady as they come. He's not given to reactions at all. And he put his finger up to my lips and he said, you listen to me. You are my bride. And you always will be.

8:13And if I have to kneel down to kiss you because you're in a wheelchair, then that is what I'm going to do. And I wailed. And I, it's like God opened the heavens and gave me a glimpse of God. God's love, you know. And that began a long, long journey of chronic illness. And when I started to get better, I had a bad stretch about seven years and had a number of years where it was kind of cyclical. He got cancer and went down pretty hard. And then when he came up out of that, he was walking into a new form of just serving at church and working all his immense or marriage hit a rough spot then. And so I'll say all that to say, we've been tested at every turn. And some of it is our own making, some of it stuff that happened to us. But the ultimate truth that we came to grips with was, God is the source and your marriage and your spouse are gift. And if you mix those things up, you will destroy. You will betray each other. You will put expectations on the other.

9:13He's the source of life. And you love him most. Love him first. Love him best. You've got something to give away. And you've got something to receive. Anything you'd add to that? I think what we learned just early on for whatever reason, God and His providence, you know, we went through some struggles pretty early. And I think it's the way I described it since he mentioned the cancer battle. There's one of those things that when you walk through it, it's like, I'll say this is something that I would never wish on anyone. But when you come through the other side, I would never trade it either because of what it did in my heart. And some of the stuff that we walk through early in our marriage, you know, when we just don't know better, some of it we have young kids. And we're just trying to stay afloat, you know, but during that season, it's one of those things that we walk through some difficult and hard times. But as we look back now, and we tell young people all the time, just hang in there, you know, because there's times where sometimes you feel like it would be easier to quit, you know, just to say, I just can't do this anymore, you know. But, but you come through that and God's grace is abundant.

10:15And he shows you just the way. And now we look back on what we have now compared to the struggle that we walk through early in our marriage. You know, we still have moments, you know, we're still all human, but we walk through these seasons. And now we're just like so grateful that we've not only hung in there, but just continue to let God teach us. And we've we fought for the things that we know God, we're God's promise over our life. And so glad that we did. And, Kevin, I'd love to hear from your perspective being her partner through those years of really hard pregnancies and pregnancies so early. We got pregnant two months into our marriage. Okay, you've really. And so we can relate with that part. You got pregnant. Yeah. You're going to be in trouble. It was a it was a joint effort. And I do it. It was such an intense pressure cooker, but everything you guys went through is just that multiplied.

11:19And so being her partner through that in that moment that you so beautifully described of saying, like, leave me. You know, just take this burden from me that you can take, which is that guilt over what you were doing to his life. And the fact that your pain was having on him and him being like, I were one. Yeah. That's really not even an option. I know that there are so many people who are the partner or the friend of those who are in chronic illness. And what would you say? What encouragement would you offer for those people? Yeah, that's a great question. And I think honestly one of the things in my life, just how I grew up in a church, I have parents and grandparents in just a heritage of those believers in my family, which, you know, there's just all kinds of there's just all kinds of issues with with any family. But that was one of those things that for us that was a foundational thing. So I just grew up with I was on the Bible quiz teams and I was at youth group and I was at church two, three times a week, always, you know, so growing up.

12:26So, but in my in my household, it just marriage was one of those things that this is something that you it's for life, you know what I mean. So, and that got in great and pretty deep in me. I felt like it was just part of my DNA. So when she, you know, when we through that went through that hard season and what she said that has like to me, that was like that's number one, not even an option. I think just to hold on to that truth is difficult that is is sometimes to say this is something that we're we're going to stick this out, you know what I mean. Yeah. Just to make that covenant as your as your even young married because God can redeem any story and any kind of twists and turns that you walk through. You go through that but hold on to those convictions and those things that you know that are biblical and that are, you know what I mean God is holding on to. He's holding on to us as we're holding on to him. It's going to say expectancy needs to be central to your faith in every season and I wouldn't say because I get I'm able to speak a lot to people who deal with chronic issues. I mean, I still deal with daily symptoms. It's nothing like it was, but I had a pretty significant health relapse 10 years ago and apparently people with chronic Lyme can't process mold and I had unknowingly been exposed to black mold that caused brain damage in seven areas of my brain.

13:37I mean, literally I'd be on live radio my tongue and my chin and my neck would go numb. I was experiencing stroke like symptoms. I was having memory loss. It was horrific. I can't even explain to you how traumatic it when that lasted about seven years and all that to say. So I'm saying I know this. I know this place and I know how when you have chronic affliction, you can make an idol out of your pain. You can get your identity from your affliction. Just refuse to do that because if you're married to someone who has to walk this journey with you, you're going to add to their load if you make this your identity or you make an idol out of your pain. And so I just kept declaring over my life, there's more right with me than wrong with me. And the Lord told me one day when I was just begging, like, oh God, you know, heal me, oh Lord. And He said, you don't have to feel well to be powerful in the kingdom. I am healing you, but don't you postpone your calling or your life or your dreaming or your audacious praying for a day when you feel better. Do it now. And so for me, keeping some fight in me, I think has kept us together too because we've been able to minister to quite a few couples and you see a difference when someone is sinking into their affliction.

14:46And that's all their brain is rehearsing and we have a mutual friend and Dr. Lee Warren. And he would say right away, whatever you're doing, you're getting better at. And if you're just rehearsing your symptoms, you're getting better at it. And it literally is baking those symptoms into your body. It is amazing. We're so fearfully and wonderfully made. So I would want to keep, you know, I would want to bring that advice together to encourage the spouse to say, put your oxygen mask on, stay intimate with God. But the person who's afflicted, that's not your identity. And you know, make the enemy brew the day he messed with you. Dream big, pray big, dare to try some big things and see what God does, you know. One thing I'd love to do is I'd love to mentor young men, especially like in the marketplace that are just like, they're just working hard and they're in that season where they're young and mayors and have young kids. And there's just so many pressures on that age group and we remember it so well. But I'll tell these guys, if you look, if you start looking at their life in the different compartments that they're in their work life and their, and their play life and their family life and their dads and all the different things.

15:51Sometimes they can one guy can just crush it in one area of life, you know what I mean? So he might be super successful at work. But his wife is probably lonely, you know what I mean? And it's easy to happen because it sort of, it doesn't just happen overnight, but it kind of goes that direction. You know what I mean? So, but just to be able to give some encouragement to young men, if there's some, if there's like, there's maybe a lot behind that. Sometimes where that's the thing you're pursuing because you feel like you can win there. You know what I mean? But then the difficult things sometimes they just get by the wayside and you don't put attention there. But it's so important to put attention to all those places, especially the most important relationships in your life, you know, your marriage and your, and your kids, your family to do that at the, not at the expense of some other of your career. You can be good at your job, but you also have to pay attention to all those different areas of life. So that's the advice probably that I give young men more than ever is don't let those things go by the wayside because I did it.

16:51You know, we had that story for in our own life where there was a season where I was just, I was working with too much after all of the, you know, the work and just trying to keep our head above water. And that is where he was winning, but speaking of trust and marriage, you have to have safety to have trust in marriage, right? And so, and that, that is a tendency for all of us is to go to the place where we feel like we're winning because hard is hard. Yeah. And, but just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not God, you know, because in those places of building a fortress of trust in the storm is something to behold. If you can hang in there and put your time into those places, what you have on the other side, you know, when you're building trust and marriage and building resilient trust, building resilient trust with God, lots of people benefit. When you're living to numb your pain and to just go where you're winning, you're actually not winning, you're losing and you're reinforcing your own captivity. So it's like the only way to grow is to do some of these hard things and to face some of these hard spaces and say, you're faithful even here God. And I'm going to be faithful here too, you know. Yeah, that's so worth it. Yeah, yeah.

17:51Yeah, so worth it. You know, I'm so excited that logos, Bible software, they're part of the at home community now and they want to offer 60 day package, 60 day of free access to their incredible Bible software. Yeah. And I love it. I use it all the time. I was going to say they've actually been a part of the at home. I've wanted them. I've wanted them to be a partner and being. Because you use it so frequently. It's a big deal. And what I love about it, they have this study assistant that leverages the power of AI without opening you to the crazy, library of stuff that's just out there on the internet. So it's specific to what is in logos and available. And they want to give it to our listeners for free for 60 days. 60 days, y'all. So go to logos.com forward slash pivir and you can get all the details there. Because we're down this lane, I have to believe that it's purposeful that someone's listening who they're their wife.

18:53And they're like, man, that is my husband. Should I just send him this podcast and hope he listens to it and gets his act together. But to give them something practical that they can do. What would you say to the wives where maybe they are dealing with lines? I don't know if it's that lines was harder to detect. It still was as common or I don't know why there's so much about it now. So much. So much about it now. And so there's a lot of spouses who there's significant other is dealing with lines where it can be unpredictable. And the cultural, some of the conversations around it, it's like, is it real? Is it not real? You know, there, there's a stigma for sure of. And we are in a culture of, again, idolizing victimhood in a way. You know what I'm saying? We're, again, making idols out of our afflictions. And I mean, I hear stories of young people buying t-shirts that say bipolar, like they're owning it, like they're wearing it like a badge of honor.

19:57And there are some, there's like a spectrum of line. So I mean, it's scientifically you can find in the blood. It's sometimes hard to detect. But you could have someone who says, I have lime and they feel a little tired. And someone else who's near death. And they're not the same. You know what I'm saying? So in an era where people maybe are getting a lot of airtime with that. I mean, it's between them and God really. But for me, I would want to put the fight in them. And I would want to help them contend without saying, A plus B, always equal C. And you should be healed by now, because you, you know, I mean, I've heard that a lot. And I still, like right now, I'm numb right here. You know, I mean, I still deal with symptoms. But I feel better when there's faith in my heart. And so you're asking advice for the spouse of the person? Yes. And for the spouse where, I mean, when there is an illness, you certainly don't feel like you're winning. Like when a woman is in labor and the man is standing in the corner, like, I want to rescue them from their own body. Yes. And yet I cannot. Exactly. So that helplessness is the opposite of winning like you're talking about.

21:00So what can the wife do even just to help them understand, like, I'm not looking for you to solve this. But I need to know you're in it with me, whether it's a chronic illness or it's just life. Yeah. It's small children. It's the reality of living life with another human, which can have a lot of friction sometimes. I think there's, that question is so common. And I think there's something in a guy's heart. It's just like we're fixers, you know, we just want it because it's, I don't know if it's in our DNA or whatever it is, but it just feels like, if there's a problem, my role in this family is to fix it. So if you're sick, I have to fix it. I'm not a doctor, but I need to fix that, you know what I mean? So, but so many times, then you learn this over not through a podcast, even, but through years of marriage, you know, where you start to learn that sometimes I can't fit. First of all, I can't fix what's wrong. But secondly, she doesn't, she just needs me to be there, you know what I mean? So just to be present, there's something about presence in a spouse's life.

22:02And I think just a husband's life to just say, I'm here, you know, I don't have all these answers. I don't know what the next thing to do is. But I'm here. We're in this together, you know what I mean? And I'm not going anywhere. And those kind of things, I think, feel probably more powerful and healing than anything. I don't know how to heal. I don't know how to do that. But through the process, we walk through it as one. You know what I mean? We're one and we do everything that we do together. No, it's not always pretty. No. Or easy. It's not. But I mean, when we look back, of course, we see those are the moments, like you described earlier. I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. I wouldn't want to go through it again necessarily. But I see the effect that I had on my life. And I'm becoming more and more intrigued by people who've been doing things faithfully across decades. I don't want to say it's more of a novelty now, but it does seem to be rare.

23:05And you see people who have been at something for 40 years in their full of life. They're full of joy, peace. They're still committed to it and they're committed to it in a fresh way. They're hard as in it. They're hard as in it. And that's what I was getting at earlier when I was introducing you is your heart is still in what you do. You don't do it because you're Susie Larson and you can. You do it because, and I see it on you, you have this sense of calling of service to give yourself two people in this capacity through this medium. And I think that's a beautiful thing. But when I think about seasons, right, when we talk about four decades, I think about seasons of life. For me right now, I have a 17 year old son. So he is someone asking me, and I love you so much, Asher. I just want you to know that. I love you so much. Someone asked me, what's your greatest challenge right now? And he is my greatest challenge. He's just being real. He's launching into men. He is. And he is a challenge.

24:05Challenge your oh my goodness. You are amazing. Love you so much. And I do. And I love that. He's a beaver. He's something. Something awesome. I did say that to a friend recently. I'm like, where's our easy child? Yeah. I thought the family of four you have one and they said, have you met you and Addis? Yeah. When I was like, oh, okay. Anyway. But so Asher, when it comes to trusting God, it was very different for me to trust God with Asher when he was five. Right. Yeah. Or when he was 12 and when he's 17. Mm-hmm. Right now, more than ever in my life and I'm having to resist it, I'm like, dude, do not see what this is. Do not see where this could go. How many times have we had this conversation? Why did you do that? Why did you do this? Because I'm feeling the weightiness of, he's almost 17. He's 17 now. 17. He's almost out of my home.

25:05Yeah. And so I do think there's an element. We have an amazing relationship. He's an amazing, so please, I mean, when I say that. But there's this grasping that I feel and the spirit of God convicts me. Mm-hmm. And it reminds me, that's my son. Amen. That's my son. I need you to create space in his life for him to hear my voice. Mm-hmm. Your voice is amazing. I have made you his father, but your job is to disciple him so that he can hear my voice. So when I think about the context of marriage and I think about his beautiful cup, and I think about even Julian, I'm tension when it comes to navigating Asher in this season. Because let me give you a little bit of my perspective. It's going to be less holy. I just want to prepare. That's your. That's your. So he's having that moment with God and I'm like, do something. Yeah, do something. He is a man. He's a man. He's a child of. And you are a man. Yeah. Father. Yeah. Like fix it, right? Fix this boy.

26:05We cannot unleash this onto the world. And my response to that is you don't understand what it is to become a man. You don't understand the disorientation that he's navigating right now. And while yes, he needs a strong hand. He needs a strong father's presence. He also needs some leash. He needs some latitude in this season. And so that's a tension that we're navigating intentionally. But it's bringing up questions of trust. This human being is so important to both of us. This is your first time parenting Asana speaking on Julie's behalf right now. This is your first time parenting. A son through this season. Right? And I look at you all and you're describing God doing more than we could ask, think or imagine. I think about Paul's response for this reason. I bow my knee before my father brings some to this place where he can't even grasp it.

27:07He can understand it. When you'll have navigated this seasons, how has trusting God changed? How you interact with each other and how you create space for each other within your dynamic of marriage for change, for possibility, for struggle, for latent potential to come forward? I'm just curious, how have you and what have you learned about allowing God to step in and truly be Lord over your marriage over your life rather than your design, your ideas, your intense, your wishes, whatever that may be? Because you all have navigated things as a couple that you didn't think you would navigate. Right. So I think that's a couple who sits here in love, firmly rooted in faith and conviction and expectation that God is good, that he is going to do a good work. And I'm sorry, I'm just going off right now. I'm almost done. I'm almost done. But here's the thing I love about you, Suzy. You are so much. You are a woman of faith.

28:09But you are gritty. I mean, you're never going to be like, I got to do a PR campaign for God. You are a both-hand woman. You're like, and this is the real thing that I'm going through right now. This is the pain. This is the dark night of the soul. And this is the faithfulness of God. That's right. And you hold them with, you know, in both hands. I wasn't doing six seven. I was holding both hands. You're younger than this. So what have you learned that has allowed you to arrive where you are today? What are some of the things that you would share with the 25-year-old version, the 35-year -old version, the 45-year-old version? Well, what comes to my mind is I'm listening to you, is navigating life, navigating marriage, navigating parenting. It's not a formula that guarantees an outcome. It is an offering that promises a harvest, and that harvest will look different than you think. And I think when we get it in our head, that just do the thing. Just do the thing. A plus B. You do right. You're going to get right. You will mess up your kids. You will put weights on each other.

29:10And I think that look at life as an offering, and that God responds to the harvest. He responds to the seed zone. And Dr. Warren Wiersby is one of my favorite dead guys, and he came out of retirement three times to be on my show. I love him so much. And his commentaries, I just, I refer to a lot. One of the things he wrote in one of them is a lot of people think they're ready for heaven. Most people aren't ready to meet Jesus because there's a day of account. And so when I think of life, parenting, marriage, singleness, whatever season of your life, not a formula, like what do I need to do to get what I want? It makes you so transactional in a way that you are with God. Rather than what can I offer up to the Lord that will reverberate in this life and the life to come? That is what gets me out of bed every day. It's like I want people ready to meet Jesus because there are some living like practical atheists, whether you're single, married, apparent, or whatever. Your work is going through the flames as if you're barely saved according to Scripture. That makes me shudder. And then I think it's in first John where he says, I don't want you to be ashamed at the Lord's coming, talking to believers.

30:11So there's no shame, there's no condemnation, but there's a moment of regret for some. When their life passes through their eyes going, I strived, I made it all about me. I tried to work the system. And the thing is some are parenting, doing marriage, singleness from a formula and it seems to be working. There's no reward. There's no reverberation. It just looks good and it so causes others to despair because that formula is not working for them. It's fake fruit. And so I think the abiding life is the offering life for you playing the long game and you're waking up thinking, I want every choice because every battle, every burden, every blessing is packed with eternal potential and it depends on how you steward it. So it's like to look at Asher as he's an offering. You know, he was someone got entrusted to us and we offer up him to you, Lord, because we are going to face you someday with how we stewarded our fears. And so it all to me goes back to trust is so nuanced and how do you know what trust is because sometimes it's letting go, sometimes it's contending, sometimes it's pulling close,

31:12it's you follow the piece, you follow the piece and then you'll know and you'll know what to do. So anything you'd add. I think sometimes it's difficult, especially when you're zoomed in, you know, when you're thinking about that moment that happens with a 17 year old or whatever it is, there's lots of those moments and you zoom in on those things. Right too many, true. Right too many, I'll listen. And we remember those times so well, it's all coming back to me now. But if you zoom in on them and that's the thing that you see you're looking at at this big, sometimes the best thing you can do is just zoom back a little bit. You know what I mean? So I think that does a couple things. For one, we look back on our life now and not in a bunch of little moments, but you start to see it in a little bigger picture. Yeah. And I think, you know, even those really tough things that we walked through when we were young, you know, and we see now, it's like, and how did that turn out? Because God took it and redeemed it and did something beautiful, you know, and so, and He just does that. So you start stacking those things up in your life and you see life a little bit differently.

32:13It's like, yeah, we've walked through ups and downs. We've been through hard times and God's been with us the whole time. It's what makes us now at this age, just looking forward to what's next. Even though we know there's going to be some difficult seasons. Yeah. And what other add to is for kids, for a 17 year old or a younger kid or anybody, one of the best things you can do for them is just to be calm, you know, to mean, to not have stressed out parents that are, you know, that are walking through a difficult season. It's easy to go there and believe me. We've done, we've done, we've done, we've prayed that, we've prayed that too. And we've prayed people in their life that, yeah, just like, you know, not that we have to speak at all the time, but they do. But there's something that we've even talked to our adults on. So after we walk through, you know, the seasons like you're walking through right now and it's difficult. But after the fact, you know, now they start getting some wisdom and they start going through the same kind of things. It's like the best thing that, you know, that we asked them what's the best thing that we could do as parents to say one thing that you guys did well is, you know, you just,

33:16it was okay. You know, we made our mistakes. We went down some paths, maybe that we shouldn't have. We tripped and fell and you kind of let us go through our life. You know what I mean? But we're all, you know, same. We're just with them and we're walking through it with them. And I think it brings stability to a family. I would say for a father, especially, did this say, this is good. I'm going to be a stable force in your life. You know what I mean? And that's what love looks like sometimes is letting them drip and fall and they figure things out, you know. I'll tell you the best parenting advice I got was from one of my sons because one of my other sons was wandering and making me throw up in my mouth. You know, I was just like, oh, and he's like, mom, the panic is showing. Going on your face, he said, go to him and tell him, I raised you right. You got good stuff in you. I have full confidence in God. You're going to land on your feet. So I did that and he just straightened up a little bit and by saying it, I felt it quick into my spirit. You know, I just knew that was the right thing because it was true. We raised you right. There's good stuff in you. You're wrestling now. But I'm not going to attach my identity or my fear to your choices right now.

34:18You know, because you'll have to bear the consequence. We'll be here when you do. Yeah. We had a good life. You know, we're making choices to try to fear God and walk in His way. We're going to love you no matter what. But they said they stopped locking elbows when we stopped being afraid. And that, I don't know if that helps, but it sure helped us because I was prone towards fear because of the world we live in and where they could go. So God has them just like you did us when we were making our own mistakes. You were doing it. Yeah. Well, I think even Kevin, what you shared, I was taking him in to worry because what will happen typically for me is there will be a series of moments during the evening and people are tired of correct one thing and correct another thing, correct another thing. And it's just, it's too charged for what it is. And invariably by that end of the night, I'm going to my son in the moment though, that thing feels so big. I mean, if we don't trust this, it might go. It feels like a first correction. Exactly. Yeah. Hey, I'm sorry.

35:20I was in really it's what you said, I was responding from a place of fear. And humble, you know, and we say it's all time to show humility, create safety. Exactly. The family's humility, create safety. People ask, so all the time, like, what did your parents do? That's why I tell them, we made a lot of mistakes. My parents apologized a ton to us boys to each other and their fears. They modeled that passion. They modeled conviction, but they also modeled humility. And so I just, I love this. I love what you, what y'all have shared because the end of the day, we don't want God to do whether it's our marriage, whether it's our career, whether it's our children, whether it's our individual lives. We don't want God to do what we can imagine. Right. What we can plan. That's right. What do we want them to do? Yeah. So true. More than we can imagine what he imagined, what he dreams. And just a little side note for a perspective, one of the last times I had your mom on the show, she said, Addison and Julie are way better parents than we were. Now just let that in for a moment because you say you made your mistakes, but if that is true that you guys are better parents than they were, they raised you right and you

36:23made your mistakes, God redeemed them and you learned from them and now you're stewarding. So your kids are going to be fine. You know, I just let that in. I mean, God's with you and you're doing your best and he sees you. And I, you know, I've been towards fear because of what I've walked through. So I've had to wrestle that thing to the ground because I don't want that to mark my life. And we have to have these, I know we got a rap here. We still have these monthly meetings from when our kids were in grade school. We wanted to teach them how to have conflict resolution because I read a Francis Fange of Pain quote when they were really young, it said, you cannot grow beyond your ability to receive corrections. So we would do monthly meetings where we would, we'd have some kind of family fun thing afterwards, but we would have everybody go around and share our growth area and a strength. So, you know, an area of improvement and we included ourselves on it because we wanted to teach them, if there's heat behind this, we're going to teach you how to do this so that you're not bringing the heat. And the boys said they always knew that they could air their differences because there was going to be an opportunity to do that. And how often like that boys would say when it was, you know, dad, you worked too much, and mom, you were too much.

37:24That was a repeated confrontation for me. And I, I, I, I, I, they were right. And but it was just an, it was safety because it was, you know, we were allowed them to give some time. And we wanted to teach them. It's not an indictment when your employer or your professor corrects you, you know, it's an opportunity to learn. It's an invitation, not a condemnation. And so all that to say, I think there's something to be said about just getting over ourselves a little bit and having a humble and holy confidence because we trust God more than we trust ourselves, but we trust the offering. Offerings are a big deal to God. Formula's, he's not so impressed. I'm going to hang on to that. Yeah, trust the offering and not making an eye to a lot of your pain. Yeah. Because you're right. And I know we have to wrap, but I want to go so many different directions. But I do want to have some practical boundaries because there's a culture saying like, hey, you have to accept your pain. The only way through is through. And how do we utilize some of those tools that are helpful if they're used as tools moving

38:31us forward and not getting so caught up in making them an idol where that is becoming culturally acceptable. Not even just culturally acceptable. It's like, tell me what's wrong with you as an introduction. I don't even need to know your name. Yes. Yes. I want to know your trauma or your afflictions. Yes. It's this weird way of bonding. Yeah. So how do you know that you are still being honest and not putting up a front or a facade or just doing the Christian, shiny thing and saying the right things on a soul level, genuinely trusting God, but not making your pain an idol? Yeah. There's a story in the book about a friend. She's in her 40s and she's a competitive athlete. She's an ICU nurse. So she's sharp and she's strong. And she started to have neuro symptoms a couple of years ago. And knowing I have battled some of these things in a significant level, her symptoms point to a pretty devastating disease that could take her out in a handful of years.

39:33At first she was afraid, but the spirit of God just said, this will not be your end game. You know, rise up. And so she started to fight back. She started to contend. And she added to her morning quiet time. She started a battle box. So she's got this little plastic box. Just with recipe cards. And every time God would highlight a passage, she'd write it down and she'd write down these faith declarations. So she added to her quiet time during the day, every day. She marches around her house and she just rehearses to scripture because it's her battle box because she does. She might even be more feisty than this one. I mean, I thought I really thought I had the corner on that. She's like at a whole different level of fighting and contending. But I've met name it, claim it people. And I want to be careful about that. But I've had people email me and say, a leader at your level and you're still not healed, like where's your faith? And confront that in me. And I have a lot of faith. But I also know very godly people who got sick and died. And they didn't miss out. They didn't miss a step. They graduated. And imagine their homecoming because of the faith that was in their heart. Their faith is what's precious. Our outcome is up to god, right?

40:34So I'm just, I got to think about that. But I also got to think about this. This idol with our identity and our pain. This girl is doing a number of things to contend. And by immersing herself in the word, she is so, she is firepower. She's actually, only a few of us know what's going on in her body. And she downhill competitive skis and her speeds are faster. She's winning medals. Her coaches are like, but privately she's got physical dysfunction going on in her body. But the spirit of god is doing something to override what she's dealing with. I say all that to say in the book, a lot of people are building their battle box. This is what I want to tell your friend watching who is tempted to do that. I would say for a season, get off of Instagram. Get off of all the reels that are enabling the idol of pain or making it your identity. Get yourself a battle box, which means spend some time in the word, whatever leaps off the page, write it down and rehearse his word. Rehearse it. And I say in here, I'm not saying for you to just blindly pick a promise and say,

41:34this is my promise. You listen for the voice of god, let him highlight the promise he's making to you. And then stand on it. But activate the faith you have and beat where you're more acquainted with God's word than you are with anything else where that thing eclipses your symptoms, your affliction. And you're like, I'm not this. I'm someone God loves. That's who I am. This is a side note. This is a temporary side note, actually. Because that's when you become a force in the kingdom. By you just sort of play cating your symptoms and getting all the sympathy for it. I mean, I'm not making life out of just saying it's not helping anything. There are days though. I have hard days and I'm honest about that. And I know who I can say that to. And I sometimes say to my listeners, because if I'm having some inflammation in my brain, my tongue isn't working. I'm on the air. I'm tripping over my words. And I'll say it's one of those days. I'm so sorry. But then we move on. You know? So I think there is a point to being honest. And I am honest, but I refuse to let that be.

42:35I don't need anybody's pity. I've got his promises. I've got his presence. And I just think if you're tempted that way, you're hurting yourself. And there's many people that are missing out on what God wants to do through you. And I'll say one last thing about that. I think it's Hebrews 12-12. Take a firm grip with your tired hands. Strengthen your weak knees. Mark out a straight path. Why? So the lame. People who are more lame than you don't fall out of the race. People are waiting and watching. What are you going to do with your affliction? Are you going to get your identity from it? Or are you going to go not today and not tomorrow either? And so that's my two cents. I don't want to sound like I'm not compassionate. I'm an empath all the way. But I know the difference between having compassion and having toxic. I don't know what the word I'm looking for. What you know what I'm saying, right? Like pity. That's not helpful. Yeah. So. Well, and that you have lived it. You are not. I do love it. You try words. And I honestly wish we had a whole other episode to talk about what your experience has

43:39been that you're not just a body. No. You know that spirit of God is alive. Yes. And that when your body is in you too, Kevin, where you all have experienced real moments. When you talked at the beginning, I was like, how do you still trust God? Yeah. But that you're more than just a body. That's exactly right. You are a spirit and a soul in that that even is strengthened in those seasons. Exactly. And whether your soul and your spirit matter strengthen that reality of, oh, our body is just a body. That's right. That's right. How much more there is to us. We carried the treasure, the treasure in these earthen vessels. And Abraham faced the fact that his body was as good as dead. He did not let it make him waver in unbelief regarding the promises of God. In fact, he was strengthened in his faith, giving glory to God because he was fully persuaded that God had the power to do what he promised. And I just say, you're going to be better off if you got faith in your heart. And it's not faith in an outcome. It's faith in a God who's writing your story.

44:40And if you can live with that kind of open-handed, wide-eyed wonder, he will do more than you imagine because his imagination is better than yours. Our identity is so important in how we see that and understand that. I mean, so even at six decades of life, you still struggle with that sometimes. But getting our identity for what God says we are and through his word ahead of everything else is not an easy thing to do. But it's something like just to know that I'm a friend, Rob Remer, says, I'm a deeply love child of God. You start there and just let God fill that place up to say, this is who you are and not all the stuff that's going on in the world. There's so many different voices that are not accurate. It's an inaccurate label when we do that. So to where the accurate label of who God says we are. Yeah. Amen. Well, thank you all. Thank you for coming on the show. I feel like I do we remiss not to say this. A couple of things. One, just for everyone to know we're going to have links and stuff. Oh, thank you. Thank you for the book. Yeah. Because I think there are going to be people out there saying, I need a battle box.

45:41And you are just throwing out passages. So I'm going to let people know some of the places that I can go find some of those verses that you were throwing out. There's four Romans five. You're just pulling things from there. And the other thing that came to me when you were sharing is Jeremiah 17. And this is a blessing. I think I would even love it if you prayed it over our listeners. You got it. But you know where I'm going. Yes, I do. Yes, yes. I just I know. It's like a Bible quiz. I don't want my friends to be like this. Kevin Bible quiz. I just say this. Just take it. But what you mind. Yeah. Yeah. Brain that blessing over everyone who's the same. It over. Yes. I want to pray blessing over you and over you. In the context of Jeremiah 17, if you look at verse seven, it's your bless because you're putting your hope and confidence in the Lord, you're not affected by the elements. You keep bearing fruit. Verse six, though, if you look at that in the Amplified and the New King James, you are stunting your growth. You're a stunted shrub in the desert when you make flesh your strength. Wow. And there's a line in the New King James that's closest to the original that says, and

46:42they use will not see goodness when it comes. And that's why your question was so important, Julie, because people who are stuck in the victim mentality will not see goodness when it comes. Then they accuse God of not being good. He's always good. You're just going to miss it if your eyes are on you and not on him. So first I'm going to pray for them and then I want to speak a blessing. Can I over you? Absolutely. Yeah. So Father in heaven, I pray for my dear friend watching, listening today, I say, Lord, how would be your name? Your kingdom come. Your will be done on earth in their heart, in their body, in their brain, in their cells, and in their soul as it is in heaven. Father, we just speak life to every system in their body that it would support life and health. I pray for the God that you would show them every lie they picked up when life let them down. God, I pray you'd show them if there are any narratives that are they are rehearsing, that are reinforcing captivity. I pray you'd expose those even now, God. I pray you'd put redemptive thoughts in their hearts and their minds, Lord Jesus. I pray that your word would come alive. When I think of Hebrews 12 about trimming off the fat, about throwing off everything that

47:45hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, I get a sense that there are things God wants you to set aside. Maybe there's things you're indulging in that are actual sin, but there are other things that are just not helpful in this season. And if you want a revelation from God, if you really want to hear from Him, if you want to be walking in that fresh, anointing in the fresh power, you need to lay those things down and make some space for God so that you can hear His voice and do what He says. And you will rise up and you will walk in a new authority. You will speak with precision and you will pray with power. So I just pray God, make that clear. I pray not only would you heal them, but you'd anoint them and appoint them, Lord, that they would be blessed as they put their hope and their confidence in you. They would be like a tree planted by streams of living water. Oh, God, that their roots would go down into that life stream and there would be soulful of vibrancy, Lord God, that the elements would not bother them. The heat, the drought, the storms, because they're planted in you and that they continue to bear fruit in every season. And now I pray for Julie and Addison, I thank you for these mighty, precious people of

48:46God, these pillars in the kingdom of God. Would you pour out your spirit in a fresh new way? I just got the sense, right? I just got to say, God wants to bring you into a springtime of your season, a springtime season where life springs up everywhere. Where there's new life, Isaiah 61, I think it is where it talks about, there's fresh life springing up everywhere. I pray God that in the places, maybe that have felt barren, that have felt like hardened soil, that have felt like there just hasn't been the breakthrough. I pray those would be the places where fruit springs up, where life springs up, where healing springs up. And I thank you, God, that they are nointed and appointed for such a time as this. God, I pray if there's any past trauma, any past hurt, even any remnants of burnout that just threaten them now, that you would bring so much healing, so much redemption, that they would have so much abundance, that they would have to make choices about what they're saying, yes, and no to Lord God, that you'd bring them into a land of such fulfillment, that they would feel blessed on every side and rest on every side.

49:49And I thank you for Asher. I thank you that he is a man committed to you. And I pray that you design warring angels, guardian angels. I pray you give him prophetic friends that are truth tellers and prophets, God, and I pray he would be that to them, Father. I pray the Spirit of God to be so strong on him that you would be impossible to miss in his life, God. But every turn, Lord, he would know he is a man who is prayed for, who is covered and who is called. And we commit all these behavior kids to you, God. We commit this whole organization, every person in this organization, bless them in health, bless them in relationships, bless them in the work of their hands. Father, God, help us to live as people who are spoken for, help the fruit in our life to defy the sickness of our day, God. Help us to live other worldly lives because you are alive in us. And the mighty name of Jesus we pray, amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you, friends. Thank you. Thanks for being with us today. This podcast is part of the Greater Messenger Network.

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