How SWTCH Energy Is Expanding EV Charging Where People Live

0:00Hello everyone and welcome to Killawanna podcast about electric vehicles, renewable energy autonomous driving and much much more. My name is Vody and I am your host and today I'm just not realizing this is probably not the greatest place to record. I am at my friend's house in Vegas and the pool heater is going which is nice because she was nice enough to heat up the pool for us but yeah a lot of noise back there but the house has more noise in it so this is forward to in it. On today's episode I am joined by Jeremy Cohen who is the director of real estate partnerships at Switch Energy and what Switch Energy does is they work with real estate, think multi-family

1:00dwellings, commercial buildings that kind of thing to bring EV charging solutions on site. Switch Energy focuses on making EV charging easier like I said at apartments, different workplaces, any place basically we're going to have multi-tenant properties. They use this smart energy platform that they've built that allows more chargers to run existing infrastructure without doing any expensive upgrades. If you listen to any of my interviews in the past on EV charging you know bringing energy in or bringing capacity to the panel costs a lot of money so Switch helps companies or property owners manage all of that. So this podcast is a little bit different than my normal one only because I'm playing the video so I recorded the video of Jeremy and I's interview and if you want to go on YouTube and see his talk you can do that. You don't have to obviously this is edited for both audio and video so you're not going to miss anything if you don't go to

2:04YouTube but I'm trying something out, it's trying something different out. Also I should let you know when we were recording this they were building my deck so this was a couple of weeks ago and we got interrupted several times and I tried to edit around that but you are going to hear occasionally some hammers or you know somebody drilling something into something so just so you know that's going to happen. I think I did a pretty decent job of getting around it. I didn't want to waste Jeremy's time by going through and recording it. All right with that let's go ahead and welcome Jeremy to the show. Thanks for having me. Jeremy you work for a company called Switch Energy and you are the director of real estate partnerships. Can you first break down what Switch Energy does and we're going to go into much more detail as we continue throughout the interview but what Switch Energy does and then what your position as the director of retail estate partnerships is.

3:08Yeah absolutely so Switch is an EV charging solutions company. We've been around for 10 years and really what we focus on is what we call multi-tenant so providing EV charging solutions for residential, commercial, retail, mixed use settings and going into environments without having to do large infrastructure upgrades. So a lot of our solution is based around energy load management and making sure that every building can be electrified you know no matter how old or how big it is and really my role of the organization is to work with developers and owners and operators of real estate to help them with their EV charging strategy just because no two portfolios are the same no two buildings are the same you know no two operators are the same so really just helping navigate them as we look at their portfolio solicically all over the country to say hey you know this is where we should deploy EV chargers you know at scale or maybe we dip our toe in the pond

4:09over here in this region so just really helping to to navigate that whole transition. Excellent and do you find that most of the the solutions are like level two solutions or do you dabble in level three? Yeah we definitely I would say you know majority of our deployments are level two it's pretty much how we got started 10 years ago and it's still our ethos till this day we do also dabble in level three think it all just depends on the asset type you know when we're talking multifamily or we're talking commercial you'll really start to see just more level two deployments longer dwell times 80% of charging takes place at home or at the office so level two is the preferred model there and then level three is where you're really starting to see you know retail shopping centers major corridors highways things of that nature as well. On the switch website it says that you have a whole platform and actually last night in preparation for the interview I was like kind of going through this and I was like oh my goodness

5:12that like it goes you have a lot of different solutions so it sounds like it's not just something like where somebody reaches out to you and then you connect them to a bunch of third parties and we franken sign something together it sounds like you have a whole solution from beginning to end. Yeah no great observation so essentially our umbrella or suite of services is called switch cortex and what switch cortex is is these incredible suites of services that all revolve around the EV charging and the genesis of that is really so that way you don't have an owner and operator group that is consistently scratching their head saying you know we need this we need that and we start working with multiple vendors the switch cortex umbrella allows us as switch to go into any type of environment and offer the right solution based on that environment's needs so you know whether that be your standard charger or the software services that we provide you know going into energy

6:13constrained buildings and providing load management which is something called switch control and then really kind of knocking down these barriers that we have in underground garages where cell connectivity is really poor we've developed our switch echo solution and then switch connect which is this incredible building platform building services where we go into buildings and smart parking applications and property management services and integrate our software so it's just one cohesive unit so you know I joke with groups we can make it as elementary as we want it to be or we can get as sophisticated as you want it to be also but just know that EV charging kind of lives within the ecosystem of the built environment so you know we can kind of play in any type of arena and offer just the right solution overall so one of the things that that fascinates me about EV charger EV chargers is like putting the infrastructure in place now there have been EV charging

7:17companies in the past that built a battery into the EV chargers so that you wouldn't have to bring so much electricity into a structure can you walk us through how you would just kind of from the beginning to the end how you would make sure that the property can supply electricity not only to the units right in a multifamily dwelling but also how it would have enough for the charging infrastructure without breaking the bank yeah no it's a great question and you know I'll lean off of the joke I say I I think the electricians are really the ones who are getting rich in this business but you know when it comes to infrastructure it's it's a team play so I do also joke that it takes a village to get an EV charger in the ground because there's just so many people and parties involved to make it happen but you know on on the basic level it's an ownership group or an operator group who's interested in adding EV chargers and we always recommend a site visit because again how I started this you know this podcast off was no two

8:21properties are the same you have no idea what electrical capacity you may have at a given building you know you may have a 1970s building that has no power you may have a 2000s building that's got a ton of power so it really starts with the site visit and with the site visit the electrical contractors can see one how much available power do we have at the panel level to where are we planning to put these chargers you know and three does this kind of make sense with what's going on at the building level you know where are residents likely to charge do they have deeded spots you know in a condominium or in a multifamily just in a classic multifamily building are we going to put this by the management office releasing office so on so forth so you know from there really you want to drive down the cost of the conduit and the run so installing these chargers as close to the building's panel is really ideal you know if you're an owner operator you will

9:22see the cost delta on installing a charger that's really close to a panel versus one that is really far off you know in the back corner of the lot where you think you want an EV charger so infrastructure is its own beast but you know after you pretty much get the you know getting numbers from these electricians these electrical contractors to see what it takes you know is it going to be a surface lot installation where they're going to run this wire and this conduit they're going to bore they're going to trench they're going to rip up asphalt then they have to repatch it are installing a baller you know so there's just so many mechanics behind surface lots and then you kind of go into an underground garage lot where you're not going to have as many of those mechanics because you're essentially just running more wires more conduit more ethernet cable but they can be mounted on the side of a garage or on a column pole rather than having to rip and you know replace concrete so you know infrastructure is definitely something to be considered and not overlooked you know that also comes with permitting as well and you know longer lead times

10:25to just get these things in the ground but just having the right team in place who definitely know the area who know the utility companies who know the permitting process and working with the team you know that is regionalized makes all the more difference from there providing the proper EV charging hardware and software is the easy part so to give folks just a little bit of an idea right of what this can cost for my my charger that I have at my house the chargers literally on the other side of the wall so the panels outside the chargers like right here on the other side of the wall it that was about I don't remember the exact price we'll say $800 when the guy came out I said hey how much just out of curiosity how much would it cost to run it up and through the attic which is easy attic space to get to and then drop it down so that my wife and I don't have to switch sides of the garage that we park on and he is like huh let me give me a second thinks about it and he is like it would be about

11:27$1200 more and I said cool put it right here we'll switch we're fine if it was like $300 more I'm well let's do it he's like $1200 so just to kind of give you an idea that's that's like 16 feet uh literally uh linearly and it's you know I don't know probably less than 30 feet if you rent it through the attic and drop it back down uh I can imagine what that looks like if you're taking it you know 300 feet from where the panel is in a already established uh parking lot if it was a new parking lot it might be a little bit of a different story but yeah it's not cheap and you're right with the electricians yeah no they they got the best gig you know in this whole industry but you know anytime you need to order more materials more labor time for the job naturally just the cost is going to increase significantly yeah absolutely so with that right so

12:27our our multi unit or are these businesses reaching out to you or you reaching out to them like how how are you letting people know that switch does these um has these uh services available yeah I mean you know I think one of the benefits of being you know an industry leader and being around for a decade is we have such a great client base that spans all across Canada and the US and Puerto Rico and working with a lot of these large owner and operator groups if we get incredible referrals you know we we word spreads quickly um a lot of groups like to know what other vendors that contractors they're working with so naturally we'll get brought in um you start to have different portfolio groups so you know whether that be an ownership group that has you know multiple portfolios or you may even have an actual you know let's say regional property manager that has multiple properties so naturally it's just kind of this uh like this

13:30cascading effect and we like to do a lot of marketing work out there we hit all the major trade shows we do a lot of people um public engagement and peak us I'm so sorry a public speaking and um you know engagements a lot of panels a lot of webinars we like to educate a lot I think that's one of the beautiful things of this industry is even if you think you're um an expert there's still so much to learn and there's also so many people that are just interested in the industry so I think one of the things that we found early on is just to educate you know tell people what's going on out there um there's so much to learn and I think you know with that expertise people will look at you as just um you know a natural leader an educator and um you know if you're putting out good product and good work then I think you know naturally they'll buy for me which is great so um you know our team just does a really good job of just selling the right solutions like I wouldn't say we're a pushy bunch at all it's one of those let's talk about your building what type of asset what type of environment is it and just propose the right solution you know

14:33I think people are are overall that apt fatigue and you know analysis paralysis where it's like we're just we're just gonna hit you with the facts and we're just gonna make sure this works for you you know yeah and along the same lens is like uh proposing the right solution you you're your stack right you have the portal to control the nexus the connect to all the charge can clients look at what you have to offer in your platform and can they adopt certain pieces that make sense for them or is it all kind of bundled into one or maybe a multiple bundles no it's a great question you know I would say at the core of it at the end of the day it's it is the EV charger and the software as a whole and making sure that's up and operational when you look at kind of the stack it depends on you know what you're looking to do at that given property so you know if we need to all of a sudden go from just installing EV chargers to now embedding the EV charger software the switch software into a smart building application or a smart parking application you know that

15:36cost maybe just a little different than the entry package of just people charging up their car and you know us remitting revenue back to ownership you know now we start talking about AI you know we have some incredible features where we have core cutting detectors and we have surveillance videos and monitoring in a parking lot you know naturally those things are just going to cost a little bit more but you know dealing with the right group who may you know unfortunately having dealt with theft and vandalism they'll pay you know for it because they want you know access to that you know suite of services so again it's just all dependent on the right group the right property and what they need you know it's again it's a consultative approach you know in that manner but just knowing that there's multiple tools in the tool belt I think is just like a really great thing to have is there some sort of partnership with in terms of when somebody charges does the does the property owner get all of that money is there a split between switch in the property owner

16:39how does that work great question so I joke I say we don't tip our hand in the cookie jar so really at the end of the day our business is focused on providing the chargers and the software to support it making sure that the actual EV drivers experience is great and all of the revenue that's being generated from the EV charger is then just remitted back to ownership because at the end of the day it's that owner's building it's that owner's electric it's the cost of their electric so it's really on them to determine you know what their markup wants to be you know do do they want to put a markup on the electricity dispensed you know and create a little profit do they want it to just be a break even provided as an amenity and as nice to have so however we're happy to oblige however ownership wants to structure you know their financing model and then we are essentially just remitting the revenue back to them we're not taking you know a revenue split with them we're a software company

17:40so really you know at the end of the day we want to make sure we're deploying the chargers so that's the hardware and then just having our software be the backbone of that and the ownership groups are you know essentially paying for our services for our software so okay good so whatever kind of service agreement you come up with that's that's what they're paying and beyond that they're they're keeping the difference yep it's their their revenue it's their electricity you know we're just well we'll be the bank just making sure they get it back to them perfect and then you kind of mentioned on this a little bit when you know they're there are certainly folks who um have made a side business out of taking copper from somebody else and selling it somewhere else um what mechanisms they have in place to kind of make sure that these charging systems are operational because if somebody is trying to make a little bit of a profit off of this or even break even having those chargers down for a period of time can especially you know in in a

18:41populated area having those chargers down can be expensive for them but also you know how many times you have to send a truck out there to diagnose what's going on is it that somebody took the charging cable or is it that a board needs to be replaced so how was switch handling that yeah it's uh it's unfortunate you know it's like if we didn't have to worry about providing great service and ensuring great uptime you then have to worry about vandalism and theft so you know I think as a company we approach it where how can we minimize this as much as possible and it is creating these types of solutions where you know we can provide a pedestal that has you know eliminates as much cord cutting as possible so it is essentially a heat detector um they would the actual cable itself would be smart enough to know when all the sudden scissors are approaching the cable and then once a potential cable is cut there is a surveillance camera on top of the pedestal

19:45it'll sound the alarm the lights go on and then video starts recording that is then obviously sent to owners to the operators even the police department so they can try and catch you know that vandalism and it's really unfortunate because it is happening in densely populated areas you know copper is definitely you know for business or for sale type of industry also so you know we recognize that it's unfortunate um but you know through through oh and implants you know ongoing maintenance and preventance plans um we can ensure that you know if something unfortunate like this happens we can get you a cable replacement quickly we can replace the charger quickly um you know so there are packages out there that we definitely provide say be acknowledged this isn't unfortunate reality and you know look at this like a potential insurance policy you know if you well so we do provide oh and implants we do provide you know these great cord cutting cable capability plans um but at the end of the day it's really hard to stop someone who's on a mission to just

20:46you know create more havoc so with that how how how to switch measure uptime and optimize uptime because you know numbers are fluid you know 99% uptime for one company may not be what the reality is um so how to switch kind of measure that yeah you know it's a good dovetail question because you know uptime for us too it's you were trying to we're trying to hit these 99% uptime numbers I think you know that is the value of the network so we're able to diagnose problems a lot of times before owners and operators know that there's a problem even before the driver knows there's a problem so you know our backend is pinging our software engineers understanding for whatever reason this charger went down can we remote diagnostic in and we'll make it happen you know there are the few times where acts of God happened right someone backs into a pedestal or a charger the snow

21:46plow wiped out the charger someone cut the cord unfortunate you know events um we do take that into effect also you know during the numbers because you know it it is to be considered so I think unfortunately we have to worry about those things and they do affect numbers but I think for what we can control as it is a software a network related issue less so a hardware related issue than the uptime is really you know impressive um but to your point like it is so fluid you know and you get enough outages that'll definitely decrease your score so I think we look at portfolio wide rollouts we look at site by site you know too and just saying what can we do to maximize uptime um and that also includes you know 24-7 support support agents tiered support agents you know depending upon um the actual problems that we encounter you know how quickly are they escalated how quickly are they resolved you know I think the end of the day everyone is just really incentivized to just

22:49keep these chargers up and operational um because you have to it's a it's a you know it's a business at the end of the day but it's also a user experience out of the end of the day you have those chargers down long enough we're going to be hearing about it you know and then you know you want to keep a good reputation too so I know it's a little broad but the numbers are certainly fluid based upon you know external factors internal factors you know you kind of name it yeah I don't I don't think those I don't think that's too terribly broad like I do understand it's not easy you know especially if you are looking at if you have one site and you have 99 percent uptime versus a company that has 70 sites and has 98 percent uptime the 99 is going to look better all day long exactly um I kind of want to go back because one of the things that I find the most interesting and I should ask this question earlier but one of the things I find most interesting about EV chargers um and there's a lot but the infrastructure and what it takes to put an EV charger in the ground you know you you're dealing with companies like Switch

23:52you're dealing with the property owner you're dealing with the local government and then you have to deal with um the utility and not just the utility that's bringing electricity in but where's are the gas lines underneath us you know where's the water uh do we dig into this right here or are we going to hit a water line and cause a huge problem later can you talk about kind of some of your experiences or the company's experiences and kind of negotiating and navigating that whole um that whole fun uh all those levels of bureaucracy let's put it that way yep no I get it you know I think one of the things our team does really well is gathering the troops so anytime we have interest a lot of our team gets together all stakeholder so like you're saying it's it's the property management it's ownership it's us it's the electrician and I would say the properties where we do very where we do really good work at is the properties

24:56that have all of their documents teed up so we're asking a lot of the time for current site plans you know do you have a whole site plan of this community is it one building or is this a master plan community is it a garden style community you know so having the actual set plans of the property is big getting single line diagrams you know of the electric is also really big and then also navigating you know how much property management knows because we want to keep them in the loop as much as possible we may not be the only capex project going on at the building you know they may be doing a roof replacement a boiler replacement you know you name it so then all of a sudden you know whose work is going to stop who's going to get going first are we going to do this in conjunction do we need to shut down the garage for this you know do we need to hit the power you know for a day so I think having really great management also makes the difference and I came from third party property management before I was in the EV charging and you know you can't stress communication

25:59enough in that industry so you know we are looking at site plans we are looking at single line diagrams we are communicating with management there's also communicating with residents you know sometimes you have to break the hard news like hey guys we're going to have to shut down this garage you know for a week so whatever that may be but I would say working with these electrical contractors that are really savvy for their area and working with the permitting departments and the building departments they will know if there is water lines underneath are there gas lines underneath do we need to shut things down ahead of time and that's why I joked with you earlier body I was saying it takes a village to get a charger in the ground so you know fortunately knock on wood we have an experience any you know crazy water line breaks or anything of that nature but I just think having all of the documents ahead of time makes the biggest difference and I say that sincerely yeah I would imagine you mentioned the switch has been around for 10 years I would imagine that it's a lot easier today to put a charger in the ground than it was five you know even three years ago

27:02right but especially 10 years ago forget about it now when it comes to let's say a site brings in X amount of chargers and they now they're like that wasn't enough maybe a couple years down the road how easy is it to kind of scale up the capacity yeah no that's a great question you know I would start that conversation by by telling anyone who's interested you know go more than what you think you go for more chargers than you think you need because eventually you just can need more but you know it's not always the case so you know I think things with just load management and it could be as basic load management with some of these the actual chargers the hardware comes with so all the way to advanced load management so you know you're sinking in let's say 10 chargers out of clip you know how much the panel was able to take and that was the perfect number let's say for two years ago and now all the sudden you have way more residents in your lot who have EV who have EV cars they want to charge one and more chargers so

28:03you can essentially like provide our switch control option so that goes on to a mix load panel in those exactly what's going on at the building level and it's going to monitor the charger output through the course of the day and the night and that also allows us to add more chargers onto a panel that maybe even close to being maxed out but what's gonna happen is gonna happen in the industry is you're gonna see more chargers added but you'll likely see less output so those chargers aren't gonna be spitting out let's say a full 7.6 KW or 32 amps they might be spitting out 3 kilowatts or let's say you know 15 amps because in multi-family we'll take multi-family for instance multi-family charging is just like charging your cell phone you go to bed at 10 o'clock in night you plug in your charge you plug in your phone and you wake up at 6 a.m. the next day you don't care how long it took you just care that your phone is charged at 100% same exact thing is happening in

29:05multi-family people are coming home from work five or six in night they're gonna plug in their level two charger they're gonna go to work at 6 a.m. the next day they have 100% charge doesn't matter if it took four hours six hours eight hours to get there so back you know kind of circling the airport back to how we got this initial question body was you're gonna see more chargers eventually added with groups that don't want to do big infrastructure upgrades because they already did the infrastructure upgrade to get the chargers in the ground you're gonna see these chargers essentially dovetailing off of each other they're speaking to each other they're knowing when a charge is at 80% then they can start throttling up the next charge to 20% just to satisfy what's going on in the law and that's eventually how you're gonna get to mass scale of chargers and it'll be a slower play it's not gonna be as slow as a trickle charge for like a level one uh that's gonna take 24 hours but you're gonna see probably a multi-family charger you know if you have 20 or 30 in the lot and they're all sharing power probably closer to eight hours on a full charge but it's the way to

30:08mass scale is that load management piece yeah and I like I have the the ability to charge at 48 amps but I drop that down to like 26 because I don't really care um it's it starts charging at nine nine o'clock at night and typically you know I'm looking at I'll get an alert at like two or three in the morning that it's charged so definitely you know if you're in a hurry and you don't have much time that's a problem but if you're not or if you're charging during the daytime when nobody else is charging you might get all of whatever is available to you and that's exactly right you know utility company is incentivized those that aren't charging during peak hours too you know so if you happen to be one of the lucky ones that works from home you know charge up at one o'clock charge from one to five when no one's at the building but when everyone starts to come home at five or six at night you know just know that one the cost will probably be greater to charge as well as a slower charge so you know it becomes a game of chess at that point yeah and it is funny um I

31:13had this conversation with a coworker of mine just recently and he's a brand new coworker and he's like yeah I was going to go with an EV and I had one friend that had this great experience with charging and another friend that had a terrible experience and uh with road trip charging and he's like I just didn't know what to do and I was like yeah we'll talk later when we have a little bit more time but uh the one friend this was a couple years ago when this happened one friend was on ccs 2 or ccs charging and the other one was on um it was a Tesla so totally different experiences for a lot of different reasons now we kind of all share the same networks it doesn't really matter but uh yeah it's kind of it's kind of one of those things with an EV you have to change your mindset a little bit when it comes to putting energy back in the car yep you get a little more adaptable you know yeah and you know despite uh many saying it's the death of the EV we're still continuing to see infrastructure for your EV grow whether it be level two or level three charging

32:15um kind of with what you had to say though what what is the development timeline and process look like once this contract is signed and the first car is charging how long does that typically take yeah I mean I think it uh it depends on the client and it depends on the asset you know so we may be dealing with let's say a retrofit property that you know it was built in 1980 and now they just purchased four chargers and how soon can they get them the shipping is not the problem you know shipping is a couple weeks get these chargers on site it's making sure that we have to go do the permitting process get the approvals um you know so sometimes it could take a couple weeks maybe upwards of a month then we do new developments where you know the new development is pretty much ready to go and all the electrical infrastructures are ready there they've pulled wire and conduit to the spot and all they have to do is just get the chargers to the site mount them and energize them and that could be a couple days so it all depends you know and then you start talking about fast charging

33:15and you know level three is in DCFCs and you know some of those projects takes you know north of six months nine months because you have to bring in a whole new transformer so now you're doing with the utility company just waiting for them to drop a transformer you had a loan and start doing the trenching and all of that so you know those projects take forever um so again it all depends on the asset type but you know I would say any project on a given day what we see average wise could take about four four weeks or so that's not bad yeah um especially when you consider I mean all of the permitting and all the cost and all of the trenching that has to go with the level three you know four weeks and you can have X amount of chargers on your property that's great yeah yeah and I'm I don't want to confuse I wasn't saying that I was comparing level two infrastructure versus level three I'm not saying that level three would take four weeks because that's infinitely more complicated it may take them four weeks to ship from the manufacturer on that yeah yeah absolutely so I want to talk a little bit about security and then I want to talk about

34:20some customer facing stuff because we pretty much been sitting looking at the um what the property owner would have to go through to get this done when it comes to security I'm assuming you were managing all of the firmware and software updates and you're also managing like data and operational security yes okay absolutely you know everything everything is sock to compliant uh you know the highest compliance you could ask you could ask for and that is required because to your exact point body there's just so much data there there's obviously resident information you have credit cards to account for um but yes no security is definitely one of the biggest things and you know sometimes we submit large RFPs to let's say you know universities where you know you you have to have the highest of the highest um you know security features so it's something we take definitely seriously being you know a network and a software provider what is an RFP oh uh like a

35:21request for proposal okay so you know sometimes you go into let's say like a government proposal or an education proposal where you know you're just going to have so many rules and regulations to follow they take security you know to the utmost standard so you know we just need to make sure that we're always abiding by that gotcha now in terms of the customer side of things right you mentioned that it may be that a property only chooses not to uh charge or maybe charge very little for for uh the energy that it's providing to customers how is the like the billing uh how's the billing handled and the pricing it sounds like the owners of the property get to choose their own rates um and then I would assume that they could do like time a day or usage or load or loitering fees that kind of thing is that all built baked in yeah spot on so you know when we bring on a client um our customer onboarding team will provide them a form and it says you know how do

36:25you want to start to charge you know how do you want to build and to exact point body you know do they want to charge by kilowatt hour do they want to charge an hourly rate um do they want to enforce loitering I call it the kick in the butt to get off the charger they can do all of it you know and it's fluid they're never you know locked in they they can change it on a whim um and then once these chargers are you know are in the fields you're talking about the customer experience so there's three four ways to pay actually 90% of our users download the switch app they create a digital wallet they go up to the device and it pulls from their wallet um you know they start charging and it pulls from their wallet the second is RFID cards we can issue RFID cards that sit within the wallet they tap the charger it authorizes device and it pulls from their account when the charge is done the fourth of the third I'm sorry is a QR code there's always a QR code on all of the chargers so even if you're a resident or even if you're a guest you can just scan the QR

37:26code and put your information initiate the charge and then the fourth are credit card kiosks that could be four level two as well as for level three and what switch is doing is switch is collecting all the revenue transactions over the course of the period of time and we are just remitting it back to ownership group because again it you know it's it's their money it's their revenue it's you know their electricity that they've decided to either mark up or not mark up so yep just so many different ways super flexible and the team will help you know we can help model margins if need be you could see what's going on in a local area you know how does your chargers compare to others in the area do we want to set these chargers as public chargers as private chargers maybe a mix of both you know and what that allows you to do also is potentially charge different rates you know if you've all the sudden planted EV chargers that say like at a commercial office well maybe you want to charge the tenants who are there at work from nine to five a certain

38:28rate but then from five p.m. on you can charge a different rate for transient users who just happen to find your chargers you know on the switch app or on google maps on plug shares so there's just so much opportunity for an ownership group to really get creative in terms of monetizing well that's that's all I had for you Jeremy how would people find you if they wanted to learn more about what switch energy is doing sure it's feel free to reach out on my email it's first name Jeremy J E R E M Y dot Cohen C O H E N at switch energy dot com there's no I in switch right and I'll also put a link in the show notes with that information as well I won't put your email in there because it's an easy way for people to just spam you but everything else I'll put in there after I just broadcast it out to the ether yeah yeah except for when it's when it's written down and and I used to have my email and in my podcast notes so it was easy for easy

39:33for people to get ahold of me and yeah it's easy for everybody to get ahold of you and even if you don't want them to or so it's a whole new world out here for sure all right sir well thank you so much for coming on I appreciate you've been so generous with your time now my pleasure Bodhi thanks for having me on I really enjoyed it all right I want to thank Jeremy for being so kind with this time and again patient because we were we were going through some construction on the house so yeah we had to stop recording a couple of times and let them finish doing what they were doing but yeah I want to thank Jeremy for coming on if you want to see what switch is up to it's SWTCH so it's switch without the ienergy.com you can see what they're up to there and then obviously Jeremy left his email so you can contact him if you would like to do that but I'm not going to put that in the show notes I'll put everything else in the show notes but I'm not going to put that in the show notes just because that is just a place to get scraped and Jeremy to get spammed so

40:37and uh yeah I I'm looking forward to our next episode which is Chris Figurita and we're going to talk about fire card and we'll get into that more next episode thank you everybody and I will see you soon oh you know what if you want to email me it's Bodhi B-O-D-I-E at 918 digital.com you can follow me on LinkedIn it's Bodhi Grim B-O-D-I-E-G-R-I-M-M and then what else what else what else you can support the show it's support killer one.com all right everybody I'm going to dinner thank you so much I hope you all had a wonderful weekend and this episode should be actually out on time so pretty pretty happy about that thanks so much