How R&D Tax Credits Impact Acquisitions with Bob Stabell

0:00Hey there, this is Casey with the M&A Launchpad Podcast. I want to invite you to our next conference, May 2, 2026 in Houston, Texas. Now, this is a one day high impact event for anyone serious about mergers and acquisitions. And it's our third one. It's going to be huge. You get to hear from top industry experts about sourcing deals, running new diligence, structuring deals and raising capitals. Plus, you're going to meet our vendors, people that we have used and people that like to help you source fine diligence and get your deal to the finish line. I want to do a special thank you for our podcast listeners. And we're going to offer a limited time discount code, launch, LAU and CH. This is for a discount on your tickets. Now, our past attendees love the conference. We feel like we're going to have a lot of return listeners. If this is your first time, we can't wait to see you there. Mark your calendars May 2, 2026 in Houston. We can't wait to see you. All right. Today on our show, we interviewed Bob stable and Bob is not only an entrepreneur, but he focuses in on tax strategies around the big, beautiful bill, R and D tax credits.

1:05Now many people have said, man, I don't do R and D or do a lot of these things, but the bill's gotten so big, right? Because it's trying to put cash back in to businesses. Yeah. And so there's a lot of great incentives, meaning being able to go back to three years and get these credits huge under one amendment. So Bob on the day to go into that. So then you know, I mean, I, it's something very, very interesting. I mean, I've recently heard about it through Casey. I mean, and we talk about, you know, some of the real life case studies that we went through with Bob, more of the proof was really in the pudding. And, and, you know, I mean, what is happening is that the government is trying to, you know, not force, but incentivize is probably the better way to describe that. Business owners, investors to create more things here, right? Manufacturing more things here. There, there, this administration is trying to ensure more manufacturing, innovation and growth. And so by doing that, they're going to give you tax credits to do that. And that's a, that's a real one. And dollar for dollar, which I love it. I mean, I love that too, where it's like, you got a hundred thousand dollar tax bill,

2:07but you got a hundred thousand dollar tax credit. I mean, obviously there's a fee to it, but it's a, it's a one for one. And which is huge. And so, you know, I mean, it's definitely was an interesting eye opening episode. And I think a lot of our listeners are going to like it. Yeah, let's jump right in. Yeah. Welcome to the M&A launch pad podcast with your host, Casey and Ferris with equity launch pad. On this podcast, you will gain insights on acquiring investing in and selling profitable businesses in the lower to middle market, whether you're a business owner, investor or a spa entrepreneur at equity and launch pad, we will provide you with the knowledge, guidance and capital to navigate the world of mergers and acquisitions. Hey, Bob, welcome to the show. I think you Casey. Chad nice to meet you both. Yeah. And hey, man, Ben and I here are going to be your champions for the day. I know some of our listeners know Ferris has been out for the last couple of podcasts. You know, he's he brought twins into the world right at the new year. So if you guys are actually Ferris, my other partner, who usually runs the other

3:08podcast side with me. So I'm sorry. So confused. No, you're good to talk. Hey, thanks for joining us today. We know you got a lot of stuff going on in your life. Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about your background and what you do? Sure. Sure. I started out right from school in an accounting profession. I started actually I spent one year in audit and absolutely hated it. And an opportunity opened up in special projects, which included the research and development tax credit along with other tax savings incentives for companies. So I really felt like I was on a noble mission of not only did I get to help small business and help people grow by getting cash in their pocket, but also keeping it away from the IRS. And so I've done that now for over 30 years. My company think tax spokesperson focuses mostly on the research and development tax credit, but we have other incentives that we can find a way to help people make better deals and put more cash in their pocket. So man, our favorite look, you know, for our listeners, you know, you buy a company,

4:13you're working in the business. But then you got to start thinking about how do you work on the business? And one of the things is it's not exactly all that you make. It's what you keep. And so we personally, you know, Ben and I and our companies, we've used Bob, this last year to help us do an analysis because of the big, beautiful bill. And Bob, why don't you touch on some of those incentives that the big, beautiful bill brings that's very attractive in today's market for business owners. In case you that's a great question. And thank you for bringing it up because up until the big, beautiful bill, the one of the main incentives, which is the research and development tax credit was kind of on high a yes. The reason being is that because of a bill and current legislation, R&D expenses had to be amortized. So taking the credit made zero cents because you can only take 10% of your qualifying expenses, add 90 different of your expenses to your taxable liability to get the tax credit.

5:14So it made no sense. As a result, a lot of people have kind of forgotten about the credit and what it means. The one big, beautiful bill actually made it current, not only for the current year, it expanded the benefit and it reopened to let companies under 50 million in revenue take it retroactively for 24, 23 and 22, which allows you to by doing what's called actually a superseding amendment allows the company to generate cash flow from those tax credits, from those prior years, rather than an amendment, which could take a long time, but it gave a really open it up until July 1st of 2026. These would be July 6th to where companies can generate cash from all these incentives that they've kind of forgotten about. So let me understand that then. So you're saying that it's sunset, July 6th, that you have to get all the stuff in over the next six months.

6:15Now, so the the only D credit was returned to normal with a one big, beautiful bill and go into the details in that in a minute. But for that three year period, there was that rule to amortize those expenses. Now that that's gone, it's back to absolute normal. So the credit has been around since 1981. And when it was created as part of the Economic Recovery Act under the Reagan Administration, it was designed to bring high tech talent back from overseas. And we've all heard the term expats and things of that nature. But to do it then and back in the 80s up until 2001, it had to be new to the world, new to the universe. You pretty much had to have a patent. And I worked alongside a PhD's proving how innovative what they were doing was in 2001, because we had a different problem. All of the high tech talent was working for only the big companies. They weren't working for the small media enterprises. So they pitted the credit and focused much more on development.

7:17Simply meaning it no longer had to be new to the world. It no longer had to be new to the industry. It simply had to be new to you. So the as a care case law has passed over the past 24 years, we've learned that simple day to day things that you do changes, alterations, improvements, anything to improve what is known as a business component, the labor materials and supplies qualify for this pool of qualifying costs. And that qualifying cost becomes a dollar for dollar tax credit against your tax bill. So it's not a deduction. A deduction, if you assume a 21% corporate tax rate, a deduction is worth 21 cents. The tax credit is worth 79 cents against the actual tax bill cash for cash. Love it. Love it. I mean, lots of unpack. I'm going to take your word a lot to unpack, but you know, it's always nice, you know,

8:18it's taking a real life example. And we're not going to do that just yet. Cause we got a lot more questions. But while I want to go through what you were able to uncover, we're not going to talk about the company name, but what you were able to do for us in a recent acquisition that we did. And what retroactive looked like and then what the go forward looks like. And then, you know, what are your services typically cost and how does somebody take advantage of it? Because I think a lot of our listeners here, this is a, this is a tool that, I mean, you got to grab in a room in that now. And we're going to talk about the simple return because then you can, because here's, here's what it where it gets. My biggest concern when I was talking to you originally, right, was, man, we're going to have to go back. We bought this company. The seller is getting the benefit, but we're using it as a negotiation to offset purchase price. In order to do that, we're going to have to go back and amend all his returns. But what you're saying is under this big, beautiful bill up to a certain time

9:18period, we get to go back and amend 22, 23 and 24 with one filing instead of having to do all these amendments, right? Am I correct there? Okay. It's what's called a superseding return. So in amendment, obviously, they look at what you filed, what you changed, and then they do an analysis and they determine, and it takes a while for the IRS, it's a government agency, a superseding return simply replaces the return already on file and processed under normal means. So for example, if you're a corporation, and you buy an LLC with one owner, then that superseding return becomes his current personal tax return. And it falls under the four to six week window for them to get a return on cash, same with companies that you already own in that that superseding return replaces the current corporate tax return. And those tax refunds are generated putting cash in your pocket. So you wanted to talk about the recent example.

10:19Did you want it? No, I'd love to just understand, you know, I mean, I'm a little less from, you know, involved in it. And so obviously Casey's mentioned it in the past. I think again, for our listeners, like maybe take us through, you know, some, some main examples, let's assume that you, you just own a, you know, a services business, right? I mean, I get that there's R&D tax credits or there's credits that you can take against, you know, making something better, right? But like, let's assume that you don't create any widgets. You don't have necessarily a product. Maybe you have a service. What would be some examples there? And then maybe we can get into the more, you know, some more asset, heavy businesses. Yeah, because most people think R&D, well, I'm doing some research and development, but it's so broad now. Yeah. I'm kind of curious about that. Well, and thank you for asking that Chad, because it really is focused on that development side. So to give you three prime examples are any, well, actually, for anybody doing design of something engineering or a software.

11:21So if they're made their own custom software to interface and provide that service, that qualifies for the credit itself. So any design work that they have to do when you talk specifically about services. Now, when the thing about services also is when they go into the field, if it's physical services, nothing, well, let me rephrase, there's the old joke that you have a drawing, you go out to do the service and you never have a problem, right? Everything works perfectly. But what ends up occurring is that they have, they run into problems that they have to solve in the field. Okay. And then they might have to create a new solution under what's called TD 9680. What they do is any materials cost that they use to come up with that solution is actually considered a prototype because they've never made one exactly like that before. So what most people fail to understand when they hear tax credit is they don't

12:21understand its policy, meaning that tax policy is all based on the behavior that the government wants to do. The one big, beautiful bill wants small and medium businesses to grow. So they open back up this incentive because it puts cash in the investors pockets. And those investors are going to invest in growth of their business. They're going to invest in growth of jobs. And it is essentially an economic incentive. Similar to a grant, it's just not nearly as long of an application. Just a lot of work on our side. Gotcha. And going through the process, it is a lot of work. But it's a lot of stuff that you already have, which is like your payroll reports, your tax returns, your financials, those basic things and then things you should be doing anyway, right? You know, you know, you're running a good business. And then these guys can do an assessment relatively quick. So for an example, we submitted two companies to you and Q4, right? So one company we ended up obtaining 468,000 in the tax credit.

13:26And it was a manufacturer. It's our cromplating manufacturer business. Correct. And that was for actually just a three year period because of the way that was limited. Now that now sits on our C corpse, now it's sheet. And it is now in its dollar for dollar. So any future taxes and offsets, right? Correct. If you can use them because the rule in the credit is simple. If you can't use it in the current year, you first try to carry it back one year. And if not, you carry it forward up to 20 years. And as a result of that, two things happen for any investor. Number one, it becomes a deferred tax asset on the books, which looks great to the banks because you're not going to have a tax bill until that to her tax asset is eaten up. Yep. And then number two, if there is a cash that comes in, that cash that comes in is non-taxable. And so that can help in negotiations as well. And then the second company, right? We had the seller was at an escort when we bought it.

14:27It turned into a C court. But he, we agreed that we would cover his tax liability in that fiscal year. So he runs October to September for his fiscal year. So we bought, we bought in that first six months at his March or April 1st, called that day. So we're responsible for his taxes on that. Plus we've got taxes due in September. And we're going to a calendar year. So in that calendar year, we need to follow a short, stiff year for October to November, December to now get 26 on a calendar year. You're paying tax on every return, right? Yeah. What it is. So Bob, kind of go through that, but what, what, what we ended up uncovering for the stub years and then for the future. What is it? What a short time. For his benefit, the, the, the previous owners benefit, it there was, you know, $280,000 benefit to him from those prior years. Yeah. That becomes for this stub year, another $80,000 that's going to be divided in those chunks.

15:33But that puts you in a negotiation position to say, I brought this in and I know we have a contract and whatever else. But, you know, this is cash going into your pocket and that could be used in any way, how creative you want to be in your investment. And that can be used to do multiple things, not to mention you established that baseline. And going forward, you can count on that credit every year. Yeah. What happens? You lower your quarterly tax payments. That puts cash in your pocket. The refunds are great for that one time pump. But then you can lower your quarterly tax payments because you know the credit's coming and that puts cash back in the business. And the cases of startups, when you change new entities, they have to be under 5 million and one of the prior five years has to be zero. It can be used against payroll taxes, which let's be honest, that's the hardest check to write next to payroll. Second option. Yeah, so all in on the second company we're looking at a little over 350, possibly 400,000 all in through the time.

16:39So we're going to be able to offset a tremendous amount of investor capital that's going to go out money into the new company. And we're also negotiating with the seller to reduce down some of his working capital that we're paying him back on. So at the end of the day, right, we, you know, the product, not only if you're currently in business and you've been a business for five years, now you can go and really take a rip it. That, but if you're buying a company, having a tool like this to be able to sit down with the seller and say, listen, if I can bring you back some cash from your prior tax returns, based on what I've looked at, can we use that towards a credit or cash or something you can negotiate with? Yeah, and I would say, I mean, they'd be crazy not to do it, right? You know, I mean, yes, free money. And they wouldn't have gotten it without the, you know, the knowledge that we would bring the table. So I think these are great creative strategies that you can use. If you're buying a business, right, you know, talk to Bob and his firm ahead of time, you could probably do an assessment, you know, with the due diligence information that you're getting already on the financial side, you know, are they, are they do a, or an R&D credit, right?

17:43And then you could do it up front, like we did it post closing, right? You know, because the big beautiful bill just passed six months ago, but for, you know, for people that are, that are listening to this right now, maybe you're even under contract. Reach out to Bob, because you might be able to get a few hundred grand or maybe even more depending on what the business is. It's tremendous. And I will tell you, I'll say, you know, that's kind of an exercise that we've been doing, right, Bob? You know, we're looking at a company, you get tax returns. We have an NBA. You're not, you know, it's very, you know, it's not like we're sharing a lot of data that you're able to say, look, there's like 300 grand there. And you've got to look at the industry now. Both of the companies that we looked at have manufacturing components involved, yeah, labor into that, right? And then we had to sit down on the payroll over the last three years and go line by line with Bob's team and basically say, hey, what does this job do? What are those things, right? And then you guys have a calculation to be able to come out to spit out what that are. So it's not like you just what it, there's work involved and there's an analysis that's created.

18:45So Bob, going to some of those things, so our listeners can go, hey, this is what I'm going to be up against. No, absolutely. And two things. One, I do want to emphasize that number one, the companies that we worked on for you guys were not that big in terms of revenue or size. No, it was the work that they did that qualified. So obviously it scales the bigger the company, the bigger the fit. Secondly, a lot of work is really on our side. You should have the information at hand, but really, you know, between document gathering two hours and interviews, two to three hours, we take on all of that heavy lifting and doing all of our analysis using what's called the business compounded approach, which the IRS requires. And that's a lot of work on our side, but that's where we're able to put together the number that is 100% legal ethical and technically valid. We don't mess around in that arena. Simply because we also provide the audit defense in the event, they want to take a closer look at it. But in most cases, because of the technical report that we provide, it's never an issue.

19:53And in all of my years, I've never seen an R&D audit trigger a general because it's a very specialized team. And our team is designed to mirror that of accounts, lawyers and engineers. So and frankly, we know it better than they do because the C students went to work for the government. We love all our brothers and sisters that work at the IRS. Nothing against the IRS because I know many people there look good people. No, I, you know, that's that's that's a good, obviously, good segue into, you know, I mean, you know, the digital services are actually let me take a step back. How much was a part of the beautiful bill, a big beautiful bill that is, excuse me, that kind of takes that R&D credit. So that was at 50 billion, 100 billion, 25 billion. I mean, I'm just trying to kind of get a sense of how big this is. And then, you know, if you know of any other creative strategies that you've seen people that are buying businesses, because that's what the podcast is about, right? People that own and or are looking to acquire business. If there's anything else that maybe, maybe not even a part of the big

20:55beautiful bill, but something maybe, maybe just kind of obscure that people don't know that maybe you and your firm can also help out on as well. Absolutely. So another part of thing tax strategies is what for lack of a better word, I call the specialized accounting division, meaning that we look specifically at the tax returns, financials, and then if something does not look right, or we think there's another opportunity. For example, if you're ending up purchasing the property as part of it, purchasing the building, there are strategies for cost segregation and even 179D still remaining because of that building. And then we also look at things that are what I call out of matrix because personally, I've looked at thousands of thousands of corporate tax returns over the years. And if some numbers seem off, it's, hey, let's ask about this question. And I know in a couple of these, I even asked you guys, hey, let's take a look at could you help me understand this number because it seems high or it seems low. And that helps the buyer kind of dig a little deeper into certain areas that they may not even know are a little bit odd.

22:00And so it's always trying to find ways to identify savings, help generate cash because all of the incentives that were created for one reason to give money in your pocket. So you move on to the next project. That's exactly what they're for. It's a big stimulus and it's for those businesses. And that's that's a part of the big, beautiful bill. That's why I call it beautiful. And it's a big lot of taxes come back. Yeah. And Chad, I did not answer your question. But the big, beautiful bill took the R&D credit budget up to $11 billion when it was at five pre 2022. And 80% of the people taking that five billion in credits, they were in the field of manufacturing. But that's creating a physical product, engineering architecture, all of that still included, including software, manufacturing. There was a really broad base in the eyes of the IRS. Sure, there was some pharma. There was some other things.

23:04But the biggest takeer of these are anyone that creates something. Yeah. And I think that's that's part of the current administration's plan, right? It's like, you know, to more on shore. You know, not only just, you know, critical manufacturing, but I think in general, just manufacturing, you know, bringing it back to the United States. And so that's the reason why. But I mean, you know, we, we, we cover the commercial real estate world as well. And there's the private equity world. And I think, you know, people always ask why there's so much benefit to buy and commercial real estate in terms of taxes. It's the same concept, right? They want us to invest in these properties and maintain these properties and buy more and maintain those and provide housing, right? And so it's the same concept as a business owner, right? They are trying to give you money back so you can invest and grow your company higher more people, create more, you know, you know, paying clients. I mean, it's, it's the government does some of this stuff fairly well and efficient through these kind of credits, right? And these things that you can kind of take as part of these tax returns because they want you to invest in the economy, right?

24:06So people have to realize like, why do business owners and investors get a lot of these tax breaks? And they always kind of think that it's, you know, some kind of a dodge and it's not. It's because the government realizes that us as investors and business owners and entrepreneurs are the ones creating more jobs, more growth and maintaining these businesses and properties. And so, you know, I think it's our patriotic duty to take these, right? Because we are trying to grow the economy, right, Mark? OK, you've preached and I agree with you preaching 1,000%. But one of the reasons why I love what I do is twofold is that number one, I help people stay in business and create jobs. And I feel really good about that every day. Yep. We also keep the money away from the government spending it on things I don't want them spending it on. Yep. So I'm on a noble mission and that's one of the reasons I love what I do. Yeah, I mean, I would much rather the money go into the entrepreneurs pocket and being vested wisely versus, you know, the waste and the fraud and some of the stuff that we're seeing even recently as of this podcast.

25:07You know, that are tax dollars are getting spent on. So 100% agree. Yeah, two more items before we go to our rocket round. I want you to talk about how your services are built and how you typically work with customers and that regards. And then the other option, the other thing I wanted to do is just tell everybody, you know, you and I, this was about, I'd say about nine, 10 months ago, we had dinner, good drinks. We were hanging out. We were talking about this process and, you know, we've executed together, right? I mean, you've done a great job. You've actually worked with a small town CPA firm to educate them on how to file. They went in, they took all your information, they went in and they figured out every reason not to do it. And then they came back and said, I think we really need to do this. So I'm sorry, but yes, that's kind of a lot of work. Like I told you, I told you, I was, I'll tell you, I told Bravo said, Hey, man, your biggest issue is not us. We, we, we understand. Yeah, it's going to be the CPA and guys, the listeners, the CPA that if you bought this company, it's kind of nice just to use the CPA that's always done it.

26:11I get it. But at this point, you're going to have to have some engagement with Bob. That's why he does eight. There are some cost upfront. There are some things you got to do because he's got to spend time with those CPAs to educate them because, you know, it's kind of like your attorney or CPA most of them. They know everything. And so we provide new information and it's not like on a CRE credit or something. It's really hard to just explain it to them. So Bob does a great job of communicating and delivering a document that gets us VITU. For your CPA to go, you know what? This is validated. And I think I always kind of equate CPAs. I mean, there's, there's the specialists and the generalists, right? You know, and I think, and same thing with attorneys too, right? You know, not all attorneys are made, made equal. Some are going to have very specialized knowledge and experience when it comes to certain things. And so, you know, I mean, I think as business owners and investors, you go to the people that understand these credits and how this works, right? And then they can, you know, CPA to CPA talk to whoever you might want to.

27:13Joe Bob has done my tax return for 25 years. Okay, that's fine. Bob is going to work with them and they can talk CPA to CPA and it will get, it will get, you know, they might take them a little bit of resistance from upfront, but they're going to eventually get it because they're like, okay, I've looked at the tax code. I see that this is legit. I see where it's going to go on the tax return. Let's get this done. And guys, that was one of those value ed services I called kind of BS on Bob. I was like, yeah, you're really going to do all this and you did. So part of my agreement was to get him on this podcast and tell you guys about it because we wanted to see it done. We wanted to see it real. And now we've got a final report, we're filing taxes, we're doing all that stuff. But we're like, wow, this is a great report. That's seven or eight hundred thousand dollars across just two companies. And then just so you guys know, I mean, these are not huge, huge companies as Bob mentioned. So I mean, just imagine if you're buying a 30, 40, 50 million dollar business, right folks? And maybe it's heavy on manufacturing. You could be talking about seven figures, you know, of tax credits that could be potentially due to you.

28:13Yeah, we just had this call this morning about something that we're going to do. So I mean, it's about a billion plus and that's a real huge, huge, huge, you know, and you can use that as leverage with the business owner that you might be talking to. So I love this strategy. But I guess going back to Casey's early question, Bob, so kind of talk about, you know, how do you operate in terms of billing? How does it work? No, just so our listeners can kind of understand. Well, because there's work involved, that's what we just we charge our retainer. Our total fee is a percentage of the credits that we collect. Okay. And it really just depends on the project type of project and things. But generally, it's about a four to one rate of return for the client. Gotcha. As we provide all the work in our back end and the audit defense, the value add with accountants, et cetera. Okay. Generally, that's how we do business itself. The nice thing about it and then the retainer is credited. So the total will never exceed the percentage of credits you actually return.

29:13And as you said earlier, it's money you were never going to get in the first place. And therefore we do it on that percentage fee basis. Yeah. It's, you know, I mean, I hate to use the phrase free money, but I mean, it's, it's, yeah, it's money that you, you wouldn't have known about without Bob's firm, right? So I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's all upside. So, yeah. And the analogy Chad and Casey is that if I ship, we're going to add it to Chad. It's all good. It's all good. Right. It's all good. He's, he's all he's just messing with it. Yeah, but it is bend, but you know, I was just going to let you slide on it. I'm not going to be trying to bet confused, but anyway, if I hand you a $10 bill and I say, give me $250 for it, is that a deal? $2.50. Is that a deal you're going to take the four 10 day or so? Yeah. Hell yeah. So that's how we work. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's a, that's, yeah. And I think it's, I'm looking at like this too, right? It's, it's like, you know, property tax, you know, protest too, right? Man, if you don't protest it, then you're never going to earn a, you're never going to get the discount.

30:18So that it's like, it's, it's really money that again, you're, you're, you're, you're getting from a service that's being provided. Otherwise, you wouldn't get it anyway. So, you know, don't, don't be short-sighted folks when, you know, you don't want to be, you don't want to be tripping over quarters to pick up pennies, right? No, no, that's that's how I always kind of tell people in understanding that, you know, you could be six favors, maybe even seven figures and tax credits, which are real money. So I love that. Love that. Then I mean, a good business model makes what total net net, 10 cents on the dollar ROI. Yeah. Okay. Whereas this in order, so in order to get $100,000 in tax, a $100,000 you have to sell a million dollars. Yep. It's tax credit will cost you 25% of what you get in its dollar for dollar. It's the same thing and it's already sitting there for you to take. Yeah. Do you, do you see in just one last question as it, as it pertains like, again, and maybe I, I missed it on, on your earlier statement. So the big, beautiful bill kind of rejiggered it, revived it. You know, is this something that's going to continue now and perpetuity?

31:21Now that it's been codified? Okay. It's a minute. So in 2016 during the Obama administration, it became a permanent part of the tax code. Okay. Remain a permanent part of the tax code. And by part, certainly from 1981 to 2016, it was passed every two years and renewed. Okay. Unanimously, because no one wants to be the one that kills innovation. Yeah. So really, even in the last election, it was, they couldn't make changes to what was already passed in the past. Yeah. So if you're listening to this in 2027, this thing should still should be in place. So Bob, I'm just talking. So with, with our manufacturing company, we did 22, 23 and 24. We're about to do 25. The other company, we got all the way through 25. That's how we negotiated it. And then we're doing 26, right? And so every year we're going to call the data on those taxes. And so Bob and I get in a rhythm, he's got the information we got on the stuff. You know, so for me, it's, it's no different than protesting your taxes, right?

32:23You're doing it every year. And it's, it's pretty awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And I think Bob, you know, I mean, you could probably without them having a slam down a retainer, maybe having a consultation type call with, with potential clients and they just explain what their business model is. And you could probably have a pretty good idea if it's going to, if it's going to fall within that. Yeah. I do a lot of free up front to doing this. Happy to look at tax returns, everything to earn that business. Yeah. Obviously we're not going to charge a retainer that we're going to have to refund if we can't find you. Yeah. So it's very important to walk through there and understand what's going on. But there's a lot. I don't want to say totally free because that initial call, the consultation, there's never a charge. It's just to find out how can we help, how much can we help if we can help? All right. So we're going to get to Bob's contact if I have to end of the show here. So you guys can reach out and at least just pick his brain like, Hey, I've got so and so type of company. This is the products and service that we provide. Does this make sense? John from our conference, I think you got shot.

33:24I think you found like 30, 40 gram form. I mean, it could be all different sizes, but I'm there. It's pretty cool. Yeah. Oh, rock it round, baby. Rock it round. Yes. All right. All right. So I'll kick it off. All right. So Bob, what do you like to do in your free time? Well, for those that are not watching the video, golf flags are behind me. My son is an excellent golfer and so me and my youngest son play golf. And that's one of the main things I like to do in my free time. I also love animals. So I spend a lot of time with pets. Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. All right. Second question. What's your most memorable moment in your business journey? The most memorable moment in my business journey was deciding to become an entrepreneur and not work for someone else to take my knowledge and use it for myself. And Casey fully transparent. You were very instrumental in that. You've been good at giving me advice. You've been good at keeping me going. And thank you for that because I'm having a lot more fun now than I ever did for working with you.

34:27I think that's, I say, you know, all of us have come from some kind of a corporate gig at some point. Or just like, yeah, you know, I mean, it's, it's a lot more work, but at least, hey, at least for a long bosses, we can still kind of come and go as we want. So there's, there's, there's that freedom that we have. Well, because of that. We're also going to throw in for Bob a table in May. I mean, you did a great job for us. And so he's going to be at our conference. The inventory launch pad, a lot of bed conference and a table to talk to these people. That's going to be huge. Yeah, man. So it's huge. All right. So last question here. All right. What is your favorite tool or resource that you use in your day to day business? Well, really just to keep up with everything that's going on, my favorite tool, resources, actually, the newsfeed that comes across the internet. I know a lot of people say chat GPT. I use it all the time. I use. I jokingly call them my team members. Yeah. And frankly, because it's the best search engine. But when you use your newsfeed in Chrome and get the alerts on certain articles, especially when it comes to the tax code R&D credit, everything else,

35:28I found that to be so handy rather than have to go find things on my own. So that feed is something I use constantly every day. It's what I do my morning coffee with is look at my news feeds. Yeah, I love it. I mean, they're really good at, you know, these days curating content that you're interested in and it kind of really takes the leg work out of how to kind of search the internet for all of these various things. Yeah. No, no. So, but at least you didn't say chat GPT right off the bat. Right. I mean, even though we preface, we appreciate it. We told it couldn't use chat GPT because we've had two people. We'll say that. It's my favorite tool of each. I'll say that. I'm Groc. I'm Groc. All right. I have both of them on my team and we do have one of the teams. So there are two more team members, very low cost of employment. There you go. And I love it. I love it. All right. It's a box. How can people get a hold of you? And we're going to put all that's in our show notes, but give us the best way to contact you. The best way to contact me is through my email, which is actually Robert at ThinkTaxStrategy.com. And the website at ThinkTaxStrategy.com, there's a drop form there.

36:28Blaney Page, you can fill out a form. And my phone number, Houston based, is 832-7018508. Text me, whatever you feel comfortable communicating with, I will communicate with you with. So I'm used to every form of communication. Love it. Love it. Bob, we are very thankful for the work you did for us last year. We're very appreciative. Welcome to our network. Welcome to our people. And thanks again for what you're doing. Yeah, thanks, Bob. Having me, and it was great. It was great to meet you. Ben and Casey is always good to talk to you and see you. I haven't seen you in six months. So it was good to actually see you. There you go. All right. Thanks, buddy. All right. Talk soon. Thank you for listening to the M&A Launchpad podcast. If you've enjoyed today's podcast and would like to support us, please leave us a rating and a review after you listen. If you're looking for guidance on your next business acquisition or sale, capital to support your next business transaction or to invest in a private equity opportunity, visit equitylaunchpad.com to learn more and to connect with our team.

37:30If you know of an individual, you would be a great guest for the show head over to equitylaunchpad.com or slash nominate where you'll have the chance to refer yourself or someone else to be a guest on our show. I'm Casey Mentshew and I look forward to talking with you next week.