How a Mental Health Leader Built Success Without Sacrifice

0:00In order for me to be able to support other people, I had to learn about who I was and what I needed and what I didn't need and where my boundaries were and where our limits are. I have to constantly remind myself that I am not my vulnerabilities, right? That I am not my fears, I am not my failures, but I am everything that came out of that. Dr. Anna Baron is a resilient, purpose-driven, mental health practitioner, entrepreneur, and the founder of Baron's Psych, drawing from her journey as an immigrant in years of community leadership. She empowers others to lead with courage, live by their values and create meaningful lasting impact. The industry glorifies the work, right? I think the industry sometimes wants it to look easy, but sitting with people's pain for eight to ten hours a day, that... ...seeps into your soul. And so you have to know how to care for yourself. For a long time I've also prioritized medical practitioners. It's because they're the ones that are giving help to everybody else and get...

1:04...it spans the globe like a super high school, Internet Elvis. Ready? Today Apple is going to reinvent the bomb. It's not over until I win! The Living Your Legacy Podcast for those who live to leave a legacy. It's extraordinary, and possible. Oh, that is sensational! Open! She's come up with the way you said Paul is the box is not on the planet. You can live your dream! Hey, welcome back everyone to another episode of Living Your Legacy Podcast. I'm your host again, Jay Slangen, and we're down here in the new podcast setup, looking all nice and snazzy. But we have a special guest today. Yes, please introduce yourself. You're a mom, Prenure, right? What's her name? Where are you from? And what do you do? My name is Dr. Anna Barron, and I am from Rhode Island, and I own a boutique mental health group practice called Barron Psych.

2:06We provide support and treatment to adult children and families, and I also consult with other entrepreneurs and mental health practitioners into developing their businesses. Yeah, so my wife really got me into the importance of knowing personalities and psychology, and we got really into the Myers-Briggs personality types. How accurate do you think those are? I think that over time we evolve and we develop, and I think that depending on when you take it, it really reflects that developmental stage of your life. If you retake it and it continues to present in the same way, then it sometimes can be very consistent. But if you change in your core features, adapt over time, it can look a bit different. So I think it's very useful for the purposes of understanding who you are and in the way that you relate to others and in the forms you are relationships.

3:15But to say that is who you are going to stay, your entire life, I think that is limiting. Yeah, but basically for those people that don't understand, it's kind of breaking down people's personalities into 16 different times, right? Correct. So when you're swiping through Tinder and then you see someone put ENFJ or something like that, right? Yeah, INTJ or whatever. Those are the Myers-Briggs personality types, right? That's correct. Me, I am an ENFJ, my wife is an INTP, so she's kind of very rare, but she gets into her head and she likes to think and she's very smart, right? And yeah, me, ENFJ is kind of like, I got a lot of heart, I guess, right? I wear my how-it-or-my-sleeves and I'm a very emotional guy, but actually it's kind of helped me, you know? And I think about people's personality types, right? Reading people's personality types. But mental health, right?

4:15It's a day's day and age. It's such an important thing, you know? Oh, it absolutely. And it seems to be kind of at the forefront of, you know, the social media conversation, right? People are trying to be like, you know, the influences that are just like, discover your inner peace, right? They feel that easy. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it just seems like in the age of social media, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's just like so much at us and it can get so, life can get so busy, right? And that we kind of just lose ourselves and question ourselves and we see other people living lives a success and happiness and beauty that it just causes a lot of stress. It is. More than it does. It absolutely does. Yeah. Talk to me a little bit about that. Oh, social media is a huge cat. I think that it certainly impacts people's, the quality of their mental health. You know, you can put out anything on social media that can look beautiful, right? It doesn't mean that it gives you context.

5:16It doesn't mean that it gives you an opportunity to really understand who the person is. And it only shows you bits and pieces of what they want you to see. Yeah. So I find that when I am working with clients or what I'm working with, you know, with colleagues who are wanting to expand their practice or who want to refine their brand. And they say, well, you know, this person looks awesome all the time. You know, I had to remind them, like, I think you have to really consider what goes into the work that they're doing because what you're seeing is the final product. Right. And you're only seeing what they want you to see. You're not seeing the, the hours of, of preceding work that they didn't want to show you. You're not seeing their tears. You're not seeing their, their, their insecurities. You're not seeing their vulnerabilities. Right. You're seeing what they want. I wish like, this is inside success. We talked to a lot of entrepreneurs, right? And they say, you know, for every overnight success, there's 10 years of struggles and hardships behind you. I mean, look, I didn't get to where I am by, by, by just being, right?

6:19Like, I had to sacrifice. I had to go to school. I had to build. I had to fail. And I had to understand that in order for me to be able to be effective in, in order for me to be able to support other people. I had to learn about who I was and what I needed and what I didn't need and where my boundaries were and where our limits are. Right. And then I also had to figure out how I was going to be a entrepreneur or practitioner while also raising a family. Right. And, and so for me, I have to constantly remind myself that I am not my vulnerabilities. Right. Like, I am not my fears. I am not my failures. But I am everything that came out of that. And people sometimes don't understand how it is that people get to where they are. Because they see the end result and they're like, oh, wow, you know, she's successful must be nice. You're right. It is nice because I've earned it. Yeah. Like, I have worked tirelessly and I have sacrificed. And so when you think of psychologists, right?

7:19Yeah. You think of the couch that they're lying on. Well, not the psychologist, the client's lying on the couch. Correct. It's like, I'll just hopefully not lying on the couch. Unless it's break time in between, right? Unless we take us power nap. Yes. But do you do that? Is that a thing or is that Hollywood? Do I take naps? No. Do you have your clients on, on like some special couch and they're lying down, professing their childhood and everything? So I mean, I am not a psychoanalyst, right? And I have couches. I have chairs. Yeah. I have a carpet on the floor and they can do whatever they want as long as they're clothed and they're, you know, and they're present and they're attentive. They can lay on the couch. Yeah. I have had people who, you know, come to see me right after work after they worked the overnight shift. And I've had clients fall asleep. And what a privilege is it to have created a safe space where they feel like they can completely put their guard down.

8:19Right? I don't wake them up. I just let them rest. Yeah. Others may lay down and, you know, we'll chat, but generally they get up because they're uncomfortable. Yeah. I think the industry glorifies the work. Right? I think the industry sometimes wants it to look easy. But sitting with people's pain for eight to 10 hours a day, I mean, that's been my life experience, right? Some people do for four or five hours. I did it for eight to 10 hours a day for a very long time. And that seeps into your soul. And so you have to know how to care for yourself. And one of the biggest reasons why I made the shift from the nonprofit industry into private practice wasn't for the money. It was because I wanted a healthier life for myself. And I wanted my kids to have a present parent. Yeah.

9:19I wanted my nervous system to heal. And I wanted to give myself an opportunity to be able to do that. So before when you were, when you didn't have your own private clinic, right? Yeah. Was it 10 patients a day, five days a week. And it's, it's, okay, it's time and you got to get out next. And then it depends. It depends on what setting you're working in, right? So right out of grad school, I was the director of a community month, a health. It was a behavioral unit is called community based acute treatment diversion to an impatient unit. And it was a program that, you know, took care of children in the young, four and as old as 18, the kiddos were admitted there overnight. They were with us between, you know, four to seven days. And as a director, I was responsible for managing the entire facility, including my staffing. So if my staff called out and we were out of ratio, I needed to go in. If the clinician called out and there was no clinical support, I needed to go in. If the census was down and we needed more referrals, I needed to do that.

10:20And that's not a 40 hour job. It's not even a 60 hour job. Yeah. That's a 70 to 80 hour job, right? So when I had my kids, I made a very deliberate and intentional decision that I was not going to do that. Because I couldn't be everything that the industry needed me to be. And then also the type of parent that I knew my kids needed and deserved, frankly, and the type of life that I want to live. Right? So when I pivoted into group practice, well, I pivoted into private practice. I had, so when I was six months pregnant with my daughter, which was, she's seven now. I was working full time and I started building my, my, my practice. So I have been doing both jobs for a very long time. And so when I transitioned solely to my private practice, I had already had almost three years of, of opportunity to build. Yeah. So you must deal with a lot of kind of heavy situations where, you know, the client has just experienced maybe some trauma or some difficult situations, right?

11:24So how do you, how do you kind of go home after that after a whole day of talking with them and heaviness of caring for them, right? When you're exhausted and you want to go home and have someone care of you, but you have to go into a different kind of caring hat. You know, that is a really important question to ask because it is one of the fundamental reasons why I created a group practice rather than staying as a sole proprietor. Because I knew that what my clients needed at that point in my life, I couldn't produce because if I wanted to be the type of parent that I knew my kids needed, I didn't have enough internal resources. Right. So I needed to cut down my caseload, but we were growing very rapidly. And I wanted to give clients opportunities to have the best care that they needed. So I had to take it on a look at how was I showing up to work, how is I showing up at home as a wife, how is I showing up as a parent. And I challenged myself to say, I know what good quality care looks like and I need my clients to have that.

12:30And I also need a life where there is sufficient balance so that I am not depleted. Yeah, we charge. Right. And so to answer your question, there wasn't a miraculous sort of experience that I had that said, like, I'm a superhuman. For a long time, I felt like I was a superhuman because I needed to be. And when I had the privilege to say, I no longer wanted to be that because that is a privilege. For some people, there's no choice. They have to do that degree of work all the time. And it is exhausting. And it's at the sacrifice of us. Right. It is at the sacrifice of us. It's at the sacrifice of our families. And so for me, what this, what my group practice represents is an extension of the work that not only my, our clients deserve, but the piece that I want to give to my staff. So that they know that when they are independently licensed or when they decide to transition to whatever stage of their life, that they have autonomy, they have agency, they have a choice.

13:31And they know what feeling valued looks like because I don't expect them to sacrifice their health at the expense of the work. It doesn't make any sense to me. It seems like mental health is a lot in, you know, kind of just like the chat around line. Right. And it's almost gotten more popular to seek, you know, mental health practitioners, right. To seek help. Honestly, before it was almost seen as something only rich people can do to see a psychologist or if you were really sick. Right. And then you needed to go to the hospital. So, you know, I always. So, you ease one flu, less one flu over the cookies next, right. Right. And, you know, when you're that ill, it's a very different type of work. Right. Yes. Inpatient is different. And, and look, nobody is, nobody is absolved of any experiences when it comes to their mental health. Right. And they have known incredible successful people who have operated such high capacity that their nervous system collapsed.

14:37And they were depressed and they struggle to get out of bed and they needed to seek support. Right. And kudos to them for knowing that they needed the help, whether it's inpatient, whether it's outpatient three times a week or or partial program. Right. We have access. We have opportunities. I think the shift. I think COVID sort of normalized this experience of needing some support because we're all isolated. Right. During COVID, like our industry literally just like exploded. And what's fascinating is that it exploded because practitioners also needed support in knowing how to balance life and gift to others. Right. And for a long time, I've also prioritized medical practitioners so that because they're the ones that are giving help to everybody else and yet they're the last ones to receive the help. Yeah. Now, now being a mom for no right. Yeah. But a mom for no who's, you know, a mental health expert.

15:38Do you cycle analyze your kids all the time? Be it like, oh my god, if I'm this kind of mother because a lot of times people think, how was your child? So now you're raising kids and you're saying, oh my god, how is their childhood? Right. Is this is me not giving them their truths right now? Going to affect them 30 years in the future. And they're going to be on the couch because, you know, I didn't bring them to Disneyland or. I have to say I have these comments. He's on my husband very frequently. I, I, you know, my Instagram is all about mothering and parenting and figuring out how to balance the two. Yeah. And my daughter, my seven year old, keeps me very honest. And she reminds me why psychological safety is so important. And, you know, sometimes I'll say to her, like, honey, you seem to be struggling and she's like, right, mama, you're the doctor. You're the feelings doctor. So help me. And, and she's right. But if I'm activated, if I'm overwhelmed, if I've asked her five times to do something and she's not doing it, I have to help myself first. Right. So living a life that is, is, is authentic and honest is hard.

16:48It is hard. And, and when my clients come to me and they say, Dr. Anali, what do I do here? Sometimes I say, you're doing everything that you can. And there's, look, there's millions of ways of raising children. Right. We were raised differently than our generations being raised. Well, our children generation, right. And, and we came out fine. But, you know, 14 years of therapy, certainly heal that. Yeah. And, and I know that I am doing the best that I can for the resources we have. And I know that I am giving both of my kids and then the husband is giving both of our kids more than what we had. Right. So if they choose or if they experience, you know, life obstacles, then I have to trust that we've raised them well enough to be able to figure it out. And if they can't, then we will support them through it. Yeah. Because in the end, they've got to make the choices themselves. They got to learn for themselves. And all you can do, I guess, is give them the tools to, I guess, face those problems and adversities the best they can to make the right choices. Right.

17:48My daughter will say to me, Mommy, can I have a McDonald's for lunch? And I'll say, honey, like, we're already had it yesterday. Like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to go get McDonald's again. She's like, Mama, this isn't good parenting. Oh, you're not making me very happy right now. You're making me really angry. And I say to her, Michaela, I love you. My job is to not make you happy. My job is to keep you safe. And eating a McDonald's every day is not the safest for you. So you can, so you can be angry at me. That's okay. Thank you for telling me that you're angry, but that's not going to get me to buy you McDonald's again today. Yeah. It may in a couple of days, but right now we're not having McDonald's or she'll remind me, Mama, that's not very good parenting because you know, you just yelled. I said, you're right, baby, I did yell. Why did I yell? Well, I wasn't listening. Well, what could I've done differently? Well, maybe not yell? Yes. Yes. She's a very intuitive, she's a very astute young girl. You're looking at your kid, being like, Oh, you're going to doctor fill me like that. How are you going to come back to me and do me like that?

18:48I am going to hope that she has discretion and that she's able to use her voice and her passion and her creativity and the intuitive that she has to help shape whatever future she wants. Yeah. And that my four year old is going to know how much he's loved and that, you know, when I travel that I have not left him, but I am building a life that, you know, I want him to remember and be proud of her. Of course. That's what we all want, right? That's been been a good parenting. Yeah, they're both incredible kids who are incredibly intuitive and in order for me to be able to stay healthy and be present for them. Yeah. I have to make hard choices and those choices sometimes is to work long hours or sometimes to say, I'm done. I'm not, I'm taking the weekend off. So I ask everyone, what are you most excited about? It can be personally, but let's talk about kind of work and maybe your field also like almost like what are the, what are the things in your field that are kind of leading edge and pushing things.

20:00So I am really excited about the movement towards engaging beyond the chair. Like for me, in my stage of my career, the entrepreneurship, the consulting, the educating, the inspiring, the motivating, like the, I'm a visionary and being a visionary means that I take risks. And in the ways that sometimes do not often land well with other people, you know, and my husband and I are an incredible team. He brings a perspective that I have access through him, but I do not have lived experience in that way. So what I'm excited about is really marrying the opportunity to be able to show people that difference is is an opportunity for growth that it's not a barrier that when you are invested when you're in committed when you when you know, when you know yourself and you know what you want.

21:03And there's ways to do that and I might not be the traditional route. And he and I are our non traditional learners and we're also non conventional builders of of of careers. Yeah, school of hard knocks. I'm at the truth. My mother always said to me, and I wish that you were just learning through other people's mistakes instead of your own. And I'm an experiential learner. I don't want to be told I want to experience. I want to live it. I want to understand it. Yeah. And I know from the work that I have done over the last year that if I didn't have the people in my life to push me, I don't know that I would have taken those risks, but I intentionally and deliberately put people in my life that are different than me that will not yes me because I don't want to clone. I'm also just me. Yeah. I have a little one that reminds me of what it's like. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining. It's been a pleasure to have you in the studios here. And it's also pleasure to have interviewed you. I get to the privilege myself to interview amazing entrepreneurs like yourself.

22:10Thank you. And you're to learn about your journey from from Belarus, right? Yeah. All the way not knowing English and you know, having a speaking perfect English. Thank you to having an amazing clinic. So thank you so much. Thank you for having. And thank you guys for joining us also and for hope to see you guys again. And if you're into kind of mothers who are taking risks and caring for their family in a way that mothers do, we then tune into her episode and tune in for more of a little more legacy podcast. Thank you for joining us guys. Cheers.