Heels Down Happy Hour 146 - How Do We Make Horse Sport Better?

0:00You were listening to the Horse Radio Network, part of the Equine Network family. So what happens when some serious horse people get together to try to better the sport? We're about to find out. On this episode, we're talking about what's next for the thoroughbred aftercare industry and do weight loss drugs exist for horses? Thanks for tuning in. On Hills Down Mag, a podcast for a horse pros chat about what's happening in the horse world over drinks. Welcome to Happy Hour. I'm Justine Griffin. I'm Jessica Payne. And I'm Ellie Westnicka. Welcome to episode 146 of Hills Down Happy Hour. Hey guys. Hey. Hey. Hello, hello. What's going on? Not much. Not much. Yeah. Full season of showing where, you know, in the thick of it. It's peak season for everybody, which means folks are leaving Florida, Ellie's in the

1:02mud and Jess is traveling all over. Pretty much. And it's tax season. So I'm a solo horse keeper here. Oh, boy. Yeah. In the mud. This episode is brought to you by Equal Gold. So it sounds like we could all use a drink then, especially Ellie. So I got a fun one. Something a little different for us. And I figured, you know, it's the end of March where it fully in spring. And why not celebrate the spring equinox with a Nagroni Blanco? Oh. So I know you're not a big gin drinker, Jess, but I bet you you could put something else in it. Maybe Vaca. Some vodka sounds probably good, a good substitute for sure. But it's a pretty easy, easy drink here. So the recommendation is like one part gin, one part bitter Bianco, and then one part sparkling grapefruit juice. So like, you know, to do that, you would do like half grapefruit juice, half soda water.

2:07And that's pretty much it. You just sort of mix that all into your glass. You can add some ice if you want, give it a good stir. If you want to be fancy and garnish it, you can like use like a wedge from your pink grapefruit. I had one of these at a wedding a while ago and was just reminded of it because I was with friends from that wedding over the weekend. And it was really good and it was a very popular drink. It was like, is it refreshing because I feel like it'd be like a refreshing drink too. It is. Yeah. I'm not a super big grapefruit person, but I like the bitterness of it with a little bit of sparkling, you know, and it feels again, like if you're not a gin person, I feel like you could sub out your liquor of like really anything, like, like I think vodka would be fine in this. Yeah. And tequila, you know, I like how easy these instructions are. This is more my speed. Yeah. Yeah. You can get a easy one for you. You can go look a little here.

3:08Stir it and drink it. So this is a good one. All right. It's time for news. I figured I'll go first because I've got exciting news that just happened this week here in Florida. Weck hosted the Longine's League of Nations in Ocala, which is a relatively new annual thing that they've been doing. And they do such a nice job. They really built out that main arena right, you know, at the foot of the hotel. They really make it look beautiful. Like the jumps are beautiful. The grounds are beautiful. And they make it feel like an elevated Weck experience. Like this is a very special event. And so it looked like it was sold out. Like there were just there were all the stands were packed full of people to watch it this last weekend. And the German team came out on top. They had four. It was amazing to watch. It was cool. You know, Richard Vogel's like just been, I feel like at the top of his game lately. But they just had a great team. And they took home the win.

4:08Yeah. And yeah, it was just super fun to watch. But you know, it was like all the big names were there. A lot of Olympic courses, probably more pairs that we might see in L.A. in a couple of years. But yeah, it was, it was really fun and just a beautiful horse show to watch. Well, speaking of horse shows, we went down. We were actually in town this past weekend. And we went down to Carolina, Doug Witt and walked the course of Mary Vass, which was fun. And we got to see and catch up with Will Coleman and Tammy, who are good friends of ours. We did dinner with everybody. And you know, we wish Tammy luck. She told us she came across, you know, she came from California over to Akin. And then she's here to do the spring circuit. And well, did she not kill it? Like she came in first in the four star, first in the three star and first in the two star. She is on fire to start her season and it was super cool to watch.

5:11We watched a bunch of it. We didn't watch it live. We watched online. But super proud that should be a really good season. Some of the horses are looking in top form and yeah, can't wait to watch the rest of the event. You know, even though we still don't have any more, we still love to cheer on some friends and everything else. So it was really, really excited for her because she has some special horses coming up and she really dominated. It was amazing. And like, you know, for her to like load the horses up and trek it across the country, like what? Ordeal? Yeah. And then to just come out on fire. She should feel like amazing because you know, we always talk about this like East Coast, first West Coast for the sport. And the West Coast definitely feels like a quieter area for eventing. So for her to come over here, like in the thick of it of show season, it really shows that, you know, obviously she's got the chops. She's doing something right in her program. Well, she's been putting, she's been putting in the time into her fitness and herself.

6:12Like she said, she's been working out a bunch. She's trying to get stronger and, you know, just really doing right by her own body, her own horses, everything else like we talked a lot about that, that I'm glad that it paid off. Like she knows that that's exactly what's working for her system and her program and she absolutely killed it. Yeah. Very cool. I love to see that. Yeah. Yeah. Ellie, what do you have? So I have some interesting news. So I know it's impossible to not know right now what ozampic is and what ozampic does. But there was a question on Equis that was, are there any like GLP1 type drugs for horses? And the vet answered, Dr. Nicholas Frank is from Mississippi University and, you know, he talked about, you know, ozampic mimicking the effects of gluconin like peptide one, which is a natural hormone that regulates, you know, blood sugar and appetite.

7:16Although they've been used successfully in people, there has not been nothing developed for horses to date, you know, a lot of research would be required to figure out the dose and also, you know, the side effects for horses. He said, you know, unfortunately, or fortunately diet and exercise remain the best strategies for obesity and horses. But I thought was interesting is that for tougher cases, veterinarians can also prescribe like a synthetic thyroid hormone, which is like the bro, bro throxine, which stimulates metabolism. So it's at a higher dose for like three to six months to like encourage weight loss. And what it does is it's used specifically in horses where like they have high blood insulin concentrations and like does not respond to, you know, diet and exercise. So those are the S G L T two inhibitors.

8:20And those are used like they're more horses that are likely to be insulin resistance, but then also for horses that are like prone to founder, which I thought was really interesting. That is interesting. I think it's like I saw the headline for the story in the Equest Magazine and it was like, oh my god, like, of course, we're like GLP ones are trending. So we're going to talk about them for horses, but, you know, I guess you got the metabolic types or, you know, the easy keepers that it's an interesting question to ask, but, but wow, that is interesting about the thyroid stuff though. That's good to know. Yeah, I think my mom's horse was on something like that. It was like a, like, since he was on such high doses of steroids, he was on like some kind of like founder, like help preventive, yeah, there's the word I'm looking for. I can't remember the actual name of it.

9:20So I'm not sure if it was, but I know that he was on something like that, but I don't know how I feel about like ozempic for horses because, you know, now we're hearing all of the, like, bone density problems and things like that and, you know, it's easier to explain that to a person like, hey, you need to make sure you're, you know, doing this to make sure your bone density is, you know, you're gaining the muscle because you don't just lose fat with ozempic, right? You also lose muscle mass and bone density. So I would worry about horses because horses or horses, um, that that would not be good. I want them to have as much bone density as possible. Sure. Yeah. No, that's a really good point. We just don't know enough yet, you know, but I think that's the biggest thing. Exactly. So I guess we'll see, we'll see if an ozempic eventually exists for horses, oh boy. All right. I've got a question for you guys. So what is like your go to bag at the horse show, um, like that you bring to the ring with

10:25you. What is something that like five to 10 items that like you cannot go without? Like for, so like all day, like you show up at the horse show, like what you have in your purse to survive the day is what you're thinking, like this is the things that you need. Yeah. This bag to go with you to the ring. Yeah. So this bag, this bag comes to the horse shows with me every, it's like my backpack. It has my name on it. It's, it's what fits my helmet. It fits all my stuff. Um, and honestly, like I don't really trade it out. And so sometimes it will go to the ring with me depending if I need it. Most times it just sits in the tack room, to be honest, but it is 100% extra hair nests because when I go in the morning, half time, like one's rips or something and it used to have the hair ties as well in it because I could not find them or whatever else. And I love the big like, they're like, uh, curly, I don't know, like they don't cut up my hair and stuff hair ties, but they're going to go in a helmet well.

11:27Oh, the skirt has. Yeah. Like scrunchies, but minor, a different kind of scrunchie. Anyways, but I couldn't use those with my helmet. But now I use those, um, ins worth or Ellen's worth or I know I'm but sure, yeah, those worth those hair nests are amazing because now they have the hair tie. So it's like a one and done. So I have extra ones of those hair nests, like stuffed inside. So like if one has a rip in it, it doesn't look funny. And then I in the bottom of my main pocket have an extra rain jacket because I always forget to pack one. So like I have an extra rain jacket in there and then I have my extra spurs. So if I mean different spurs for different horses, like I have those in there, um, I generally will have like some sort of ball cap or like just a hat because if I'm stuck at the ring and I want to take my helmet off, like I can just, you know, take one of the hair to my

12:27original hair tie and put it in and run with the hat, you know, at least have a hat. And then sunscreen, tons of sunscreen, face and body. Hmm. See, I'm surprised that you like the Ellsworth hair net. I tried it. And I think my hair is too thick. Like it's just a nightmare. It all falls out. I can't keep it. So the funny thing is, um, I was talking with Jasmine at, um, um, I was talking about ride equisave and she's like, I think I'm doing it wrong. And I think really you have to know how, like it's weird to do it to start. And then I promise you, like the thickest amount of hair could still go. And I, like if I'm at home and one of my helmets that's better if my hair is actually down, so I can still do that hair net with my hair down. Okay. All right. I see what you're saying. Because yeah, I tried and it was a disaster. I think it's kind of hard to understand how to, they're expensive for what it was.

13:27So I was like, how am I not, how's this not computing? Yeah. That's a neat problem. But I think we might, I might have to show you. I might have to show you how to do it because once, if you figure it out, and it works, it is a game changer. Okay. All right. I'll trust you. Okay. So my bag, um, being in Florida sunscreen number one, like it's my face sunscreen is in there. Um, I, like I live in SPF 70 and above just because Florida is brutal and I'm getting too old. You have to. Exactly. So, and, um, I'm not a huge fan of the mineral sunscreen, but that's the way I've gone lately. I've, I've got a couple of brands I like. So there's always sunscreen in that bag and if I don't put it in there, my husband does. He's like worse than me about making sure I wear sunscreen these days. So, um, and then I also have, I'll always have an extra pair of sunglasses for the horse show because I lose them constantly. Well, there's an extra pair in my truck, like, so the truck's always there, even if I

14:30drive the truck there, there's one in the sunglasses case in my red truck. But then you're away from the truck. I always keep an extra pair in the bag because I'll, like, take the pair out of the truck and then I leave it in the show trunk back at the barn. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm the worst. I go through so many pairs of sunglasses so I always leave an extra pair in the bag that goes to the ring, like my husband's carrying, you know, um, and then always bobby pins and safety pins just for when my hair, my hair nets malfunctioning or, um, I need, you know, you, like, I've safety pins, you know, I don't use them for my numbers that often anymore. But, like, I've definitely, like, snagged my clothes and you need to, like, close something up. You never, like, safety pins. You never know. And I'm always got the right problem. Almost every horse show somebody, like, there's a problem that my pile of safety pins can fix. So I always bring them. It's so funny.

15:30And then I'm also into, like, snacks, you always need a snack. It's brutal out here. You're in the sun all day. You need something. So I always keep, like, cuties, like the oranges or a banana or, like, a little can of pistachios, like, something quick to eat that will give you energy, um, if you're hungry at the, at ringside or somebody around you is, um, in chapstick, chapstick is also got you. Great. But Doug always has chapstick. So I never have chapstick. Okay. All right. What about you? How about your chapstick? What do you got in your bag? Um, well, first and foremost, uh, peppermint, bribes, rewards, um, they're always there. Um, I think, I mean, like, it's bad too because I literally have Berkeley conditioned. And partially my trainer growing up to, like, anytime he comes out of the ring and he's, like, put in, like, a stellar round, he will look at my trainer, like, treat now. Like, that was phenomenal, um, and even now that I show without, he will literally turn

16:36around and look at my knee, like, um, excuse me, um, so that's always in my bag. Um, I love them. And like, also, like, I, for me too, like, I like to suck on the peppermints, like, if I have a long weight and stuff, um, cause I hate to, like, ride with gum. So, but it gives my mouth something to do. Um, I am with you just seeing on the safety pins. Um, you know, I, as a big chested person, I have busted too many buttons to not have a safety pin with me. And also smart, smart, you know, um, so that's a definite. And then I'm a big, like, especially with my, you know, MS, I have to worry about, like, regulating my body temperature. So cold water is like a big for me. Like, I always have a ridiculous amount of water, like, three bottles, like just always. Um, and then I know I've talked about it before, but again, I have my astringent and my

17:36cotton pads, um, to wipe my face off and cool myself down. Um, and then I always have a hard brush because, you know, sometimes they water right before you go in. And I don't know, with a black horse, like, it bothers me when he has all this, like, you know, arena dirt covering him being black in photographs. So I will brush him between rounds just to make sure his legs look clean and the boots are nice before I go back in. So yeah, those are with me. That makes sense. Definitely. All good stuff. Plan your 2026 competition schedule with one unmatched hits experience across six premiere venues, including Hitz O'Cala, Hitz Delmar, Hitz Cole Pepper, Hitz Chicago, Hitz Hudson Valley, and Hitz Vermont, featuring seven total WCHR weeks. Ten total FEI jumping weeks and opportunities for horse and riders of all levels from coast

18:37to coast. This action packed year will be one to remember learn more at www.hitzshows.com. Please welcome our first guest, Daniel Geithner. He is a friend of ours from Akin, but he is also a Grand Prix show jumper and he was national a question of the year in 2025. He and his wife Kathy own DFG Stables in Akin and in Ocala and he is also here to talk to us about a new organization that he has started. Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming on. So tell us a little bit about the organization, why you got it started, and the name, and everything else. So it's the United States Equestrian Trainers Association or USETA. This win and Carlton Brooks and myself all got together and formed this group the end of last year. And it was really Chris Wins brainchild.

19:40He's been talking about this for a while and he got the ball rolling and we jumped in. And really it's maybe trainers association isn't the best word. It's more of a professional horse people association. We have some stewards, some judges, some show managers on board. We've got a couple of vets that are coming on board and it's an organization where we can all get together, have one strong voice, hopefully lots of members. One strong voice to try to make our industry better. We're really wanting to start from the bottom up, not just top down and we want to try to help all levels of equestrian activities.

20:40So you're passionate about this, but what made you want to be involved in this and what inspired, I know Chris started it, but what made you inspired to kind of get behind this and become one of the lead professionals that's going to get all this up and running? You know, I'm getting a little up there in age and I want to give back and I've got several reasons. I have a lot of colleagues that are in the industry and when we became professionals we were never taught the ends and the outs of the business, whether you need what kind of insurance you need to have or how you should set up your business in LLC or S Corp. There's a lot of stuff that you just kind of had to learn by the seat of your pants. Not only that, but how to become a judge, how to become a steward.

21:46There's a lot of things that aren't necessarily taught, there's not a lot of literature out there. So we're trying to help all professionals learn the states that we had to make sure. Exactly. Learn their way. You know, we've got an exciting thing we're working with an insurance person who's going to help out and their family member rides and they want to give back to the industry about helping young and old professionals or people in the business understand what their insurance needs are. I've got friends who have had some legal troubles whether it's with a client or an infraction with the USCF and we love to be able to be an ear to talk to and see if we can lend a hand to people like this. So what is the goal for the organization both, I guess, short term and long term?

22:49I think it's great that you're going to get all this knowledge out. What is the, you know, what is the end goal? Short term, I would say we've got several interesting projects we're working on. We're trying to assimilate, you know, what a lot of people, a lot of professionals in the industry, we're trying to get them to help voice their concerns, you know, stuff we can tackle as a group and it's not one person tackling these things. I think long term, like I said, we'd love to be able to provide assistance to professionals in the industry, whether it's helping them, you know, start a business or get their judges card or, you know, help them along their pathway. And again, you know, Carlton, Chris and myself are, we've been doing this a long time and we've all made a lot of mistakes and we'd like to help others avoid those pitfalls.

23:56I'd love to see, you know, eventually us being able to help people set a retirement accounts and, you know, whether we do it or we've got somebody on our board and committee that can steer them in the right direction, just so people can plan for the future, you know, and then work with the USCF, the USHJ and the horse shows whether they're local or national to make our sport better for the exhibitors, the owners, trainers, all the people involved and the horses. I mean, this is why we're doing this is for the horses and, you know, I think we all three of us would like to leave it in a better place than when we started. Interesting. So Daniel, obviously you've been in the industry for a while, you've, you know, you've been around the 100 jumper circuits.

24:57I'm sure you've seen your fair share of interesting things that you hope you could change. I wonder, what do you see personally as someone like, what do you think are some of the largest issues facing our American equestrian sport right now that you think your organization could maybe help change? Yeah, you know, I think, I mean, one of the, you know, one of the largest difficulties in getting in the business as far as professionals or owners or new clients, you know, is the expense of it all. You know, and I think it's not going to be an easy one to work with horse shows and the USCF to try to help, you know, mitigate the expense, but I mean, we see a lot of horse shows now offering free entry fees for young jumpers, free entry fees for young hunters. Not all horse shows, but, you know, several of the big winter circuits are doing that.

26:01And I think steps like those are certainly in the right direction and we need to, you know, keep encouraging as many shows to do these type of things as possible. You know, with horse shows providing free entry fees or lower entry fees for these young hunter and young jumper classes, it, you know, provides a segue into professional zoning horses, amateur zoning horses, you know, mitigating the expense a little bit. And, you know, for myself, if I own a horse and I get to show this horse for free, I don't have to sell this horse for quite as much money when it comes time to sell. So I think it's a, it's a trickle down effect there to help everything cost, you know, cost a little bit less. That's certainly one of our, one of our large things. And, you know, the other thing I think is a lot of, I worry that a lot of our governing bodies aren't out in the trenches with us, you know, and knowing what we go through where

27:07these shows are difficult, there's a lot going on. It's very unnatural for the horses, you know, and I'd like our, our new rule changes and our, you know, stuff we're looking at for the future to just to take into mind, you know, what we're all dealing with down, down in the, down in the stables. I'm going to one example that just came to my mind a few days ago was the FII now does not allow you to clip a horse's ears, which, you know, I'm, the muzzle and the eyelashes I completely understand, but, you know, our shows now are so loud, boisterous, we all need to use earplugs or cotton in their ears to help, you know, not desensitize their, their noise level. And, you know, if you've ever put earplugs in a horse with long hair and then pull them

28:09out, you're pulling hair out and pretty soon in a day or two, their head shy and bridle shy. And, you know, so that's just one of the things I don't, I'm not sure who made up that rule or why anyone thought it was a good idea, but from a common sense horsemen view that really that just doesn't fly. And so these are, and there's, you know, quite a few examples like this of things that, you know, were pretty, pretty aha moment to me that, you know, I think we just, we'd like to address some of these things. Interesting. Yeah. Things change over time, right? Rules change. Absolutely. In use F and F E I, but I mean, just curious, as someone who's been in the sport a long time, Daniel, why and how do you think we've gotten to the place for it now in horse sports? I mean, because clearly you have something to say and you've been around horses a long time and you wouldn't think that this organization needs to exist if you felt like maybe our

29:15governing bodies weren't listening to the people involved in the sport, right? Yeah. You know, I think that's a lot of it. You know, there, we need to have a voice and when there's concerns like this, you know, we'd like to not just be one person moaning, we want to come, come together as a group and whether we vote on it and decide this is, we're passionate about this, you know, but come together as a group of horsemen and I mean, I'd love it if we had 2,000 members and 1,800 of them were USCF members and we can go to them and say, guys, we're, we're serious, you know, we really mean this, you know, and it's also working with the horse shows. I have a great example. I'm down here at Wack O'Calla and they struggle a little for lunging areas in the morning and I, a couple of years ago, kind of noticed that there was an enormous schooling area that

30:16was completely empty all morning. So I went to them and I said, guys, how about, you know, we opened this up for lunging in the mornings. You can fit 10 horses, big circles. It's a great idea and they did it and it's been a hit ever since and, you know, that didn't cost them any money and I didn't go to them and scream and yell and say, we need more lunging areas. I tried to figure out a solution to it. You know, so I'd love it if we have a group together where we're all not going to be at the same horse show. But if, you know, Chris Wynn and Carlton Brooks are at a show and they, they see something that needs a dress, we're going to stand behind them as a group and, you know, follow their lead. Yeah. You know, and we would like to, we're going to sometime soon, you know, come out and acknowledge these circuits and horse shows that are offering free entry fees to young hunters and jumpers and say, we as trainers, owners, professionals, yeah, we see it.

31:22We thank you that's really noticed. You know, so, you know, I don't think we all, we all, we don't all want to be negative and, you know, only pick out the bad. We want to support the good so that hopefully other shows will take notice and, you know, follow suit. Yeah. Absolutely. So, how is the organization going to work? Is it like a membership or like a pay to be a member? Exactly. Yeah. It's a membership. It's $75. You know, right now we have, I mean, there's, we have one person on, on salary that does our website and social media and stuff like that. We have two great lawyers that are on our committee and they're working pro bono. You know, so yeah, right now it's a, it's a small membership. You know, and it's, and it's really we're going to start doing a little bit of advertising.

32:26You know, but there's, there's, there's no, no one making money in it. It's just to kind of keep this, keep this thing afloat and keep it going. And you know, we're hoping to eventually be able to offer more stuff. We're about to, we actually just went public today. We're going to start doing judges clinics and where if there's a person that thinks they might want to become 100 judge, they can sign up and go sit with one of our expert judges all week at a horse show. And get classroom sessions back and forth, question and answer sessions, you know, and, and learn, learn how to judge. And you know, I see this as a real valuable tool that we can, we can offer to the horse industry because we're dire lacking of judges. And you know, there's a lot of people I know that are young and old professionals that

33:29are not sure if they want to judge and, you know, they can go sit for a week and learn how to judge and decide if there's something they'd be interested in pursuing. We're hoping it gets popular enough where we get sanctioned by the USCF and they start to recognize, you know, the, the program we're offering because right now it's, you know, it's actually right now the, there's a moratorium on new judges for the year. So that you can't even become a judge right now if you want to. So, you know, we're, we're hoping to offer that, that assistance. And we've got a lot of, you know, a lot of stuff on the horizon. We're going to try to do a mentor program where you can come shadow, a trainer, a judge for, for a week, you know, if you're approved and, yeah, there, there's a lot of, a lot of interesting stuff on the table in the future. Absolutely. Well, it sounds super interesting. It sounds like something a lot of us really, I think, would like to be involved in.

34:30And so, yeah, where can we reach out? Where can, if we want to get involved, everybody wants to get involved? Where is the best way on the website or where is the website? Yes, on the website. Yes, on the website. We have a Facebook page of United States Equestrian Trainers Association and you can send in a message either one of those and, you know, one of us will get back to you. I think there's a way you can join on both of those. You know, and we encourage, I mean, we're going to, we're going to try to branch out and have, you know, a committee of judges, a committee of stewards, of veterinarians, you know, to help guide us on the, we want to get as many industry experts as we can to help, help us navigate through some of these, some of these issues we're going to be dealing with. Yeah. No, it sounds amazing. Well, Daniel, thanks so much for joining us. We learned a lot, chatting with you and appreciate it. Oh, thank you guys. That was, that was awesome and, and very simple, appreciate it.

35:33No slipping, no sliding, no problem. Equigolds secure saddle pads are engineered to keep the horses back comfortable while keeping the saddle in place for a safe, competitive ride. They have impact protection through the seat and the ultra thin flaps provide the rider with better communication and a more stable riding position, available in both English and Western styles, shop the entire collection at ecogold.ca. All right. Everybody, I'm really excited to introduce our next guest. It's Kirsten Green from the Retired Resource Project. Kirsten group riding thoroughbred lesson horses and Dressage and eventing and eventually pursued a career riding and teaching. And that eventually led her to the Retired Resource Project, which she has led for several years now. And the Retired Resource Project just put out a really interesting strategic report for 2026, which we're going to get all into the details of that here shortly.

36:33But Kirsten, thank you so much for joining us. Yeah. Thank you guys for having me on. So I'm excited to delve into this report, which I think is really interesting to anybody who owns a thoroughbred, who is interested in adopting a thoroughbred after their life at the racetrack. But I want to back up first because as someone who's competed at the makeover in owns thoroughbreds and is a huge thoroughbred fan, I feel like I'm constantly telling, like trying to correct small language choices of people when they talk about thoroughbreds. And I think people think of the RRP as one thing, but you guys do a lot of things. So can we start by just tell me what the mission of the Retired Resource Project is and how long have you been involved with the organization? Yeah. Well, I think I'll just like small, like kind of editors know is that, and this is totally normal, like I'm not like calling you out or anything. So Retired Resource Project or like RRP is the nonprofit organization that puts on the

37:38thoroughbred makeover, which is the event. So, but kind of colloquially and you'll see it a lot online when people say that they're going to the RRP or my horse's RRP eligible, what they're referring to is the event that the organization hopes. Exactly. Yeah. So, and we're just like, we don't find it anymore, like if that's the kind of brand recognition you have, like you just kind of go with it. Yeah. The Retired Resource Project is a 501c3 nonprofit that's headquartered in Maryland. And our mission is to increase demand for thoroughbreds in second career sports. So whether it's sports, recreational riding, therapeutic, like anything post beyond racing. And to give the people that are associated with the breed, the tools that they need to be successful. So, you know, very much just kind of facilitation, incentive, promotion, education, I go and

38:41sit in an office every day and look at a computer if I don't see courses every day, like we don't have a facility, like we're not doing the kind of boots on the ground, transition work, whether that's, you know, through nonprofit aftercare or people who just kind of make their living in the space, but our work is very relevant to and supportive of just trying to make sure that horses transition safely and effectively from their racing careers to whatever the next chapter is going to be. And so you mentioned that it's different than, you know, the thoroughbred makeover and the organization, but how has the organization RRP grown over the last few years? Yeah, I mean, I think I've been involved with the organization since very early on. I got involved as a volunteer in 2013 and then eventually joined staff in 2014 and just didn't

39:41leave. So I haven't been the executive director of the whole time. There's a founding and executive director and, you know, a previous executive director before me, but it has definitely grown the makeover. We got started very much focused on the kind of mid-Atlantic horse expos during demonstrations and short format kind of competitions and stuff like that, but it wasn't really until like we did the first makeovers at Pemleco and then ultimately move the makeover to the horse park in 2015 that like we really kind of like rocketed to like national visibility. So the makeover has continued to be kind of our most visible program, but over time we have had other programs that have kind of always been going on in the background, always available and we've kind of maintained, you know, with the makeover continuing to be the kind of like highly visible showcase, you know, flagship thing that we do. So

40:47for a while we were publishing a quarterly magazine called Not Off-Truck Thuroughbred magazine. We have since transitioned that to digital publishing, so we're still publishing the same amount of original content, but we're just doing it, you know, on a monthly schedule and straight to our website. That's all that content is available for free, so articles about training, nutrition, care, all of that sort of thing are in our education library on our website. We've also hosted we're soliciting service for basically our entire existence, so any time a thoroughbred needs to move from one home to another no matter what the point and their kind of life cycle, we have that service available for free on our website. And we've just continued to really focus on the educational aspect of things, so we do continue to do a fair amount of demos, clinics, seminars, whether they are, you know, webinars online throughout the year or if we're

41:50going to go like we've always done demos at the Kentucky three day, that continues to be a really big part of the stuff that we do as well. Yeah, I'm obviously a huge fan. I competed in the thoroughbred makeover in 2023 and a large part of that process was shared on our show, so it's really nice to talk to you and really see what the RRP is doing like into the future. So thinking or with that in mind, Kirsten, I was hoping we could talk about the strategic report that the RRP just put out a couple weeks ago. Yeah, can you give us the highlight, is this something you do every year or is there something special about the report that you put out this year? It's certainly near and dear to my heart. It's kind of remarkably the organization has gotten to, we turned 15 years old last year and we have made it that far without going through a formal strategic planning process and that was a big goal of mine when I became

42:54executive director in 2022 was to get that process done. So I'm very pleased that we went through with all of it. We very much were kind of feeling the sense of just like, okay, like we do the makeover, we're good at doing the makeover, like there's other stuff that we want to do, but we know that the makeover really is commanding all of our resources, both financial and human and how do we kind of balance that out so that we can further cultivate the things that we already do and stand up things that we feel like the thoroughbred breed in the aftercare space really need. So we really took the process very seriously, worked with a facilitator that does non-profit strategic planning, the a lot of stakeholder interviews, community surveys, just the works, and it was a fairly tiring process. Like I don't know if any of you have, you know,

43:56interviewed your job had to do anything like that, but it's kind of exciting and exhausting at the same time. So we were all kind of like mush by the end of the year, but we're really excited to have it done, and it kind of gives us the clarity of, because it's 2026 through 2020, or sorry, 2030, so it really kind of gives our team the clarity and the roadmap of like, okay, like we've all come together as a staff and as a board and talked through all these ideas that we've had recently and we've come to an agreement on how we're going to focus our time and energy and resources, our cash resources. So really excited about that. There's kind of like a couple of big highlights, as I already mentioned, the kind of immediate near-term thing that we need to address is balancing the makeover amongst the other things that we do and getting ourselves

44:57in a financial position so that we can scale our staff and scale our services. So that's a kind of like a number one, address that first, do not pass go if we can't like address these pieces. Kind of ongoing in the kind of like, background of all of that is what really became clear in some of our stakeholder interviews and our community surveys is that RP is definitely regarded as a leading voice and aftercare and considered like a national like high level organization, and so we want to be sure that we are leaning into that and continuing to make sure that RP's voices at the table when we're having discussions about kind of overall aftercare in terms of how we're going to be funding those sorts of things and whose which organizations are going to focus on what and that sort of thing and just making sure that the RP kind of clearly stakes our flag and kind of what we're contributing to the greater landscape.

46:02And then another big one is really leveraging our data and that's kind of it's not as well described in some of our documents as I think it really needs to be. I think what we've been doing over the last couple, I mean over the time that we've been running the makeover is a very instinctually hoarding data like I don't think a lot of people realize that when they register a horse for the makeover, you just tell us who our horse is, a human being takes that and goes like off into equa-based and equine line and that sort of thing and pulls a lot of data on that horse's like breeding and racing history and then also kind of examines some of the acquisition information and so that we can kind of aggregate that and report on kind of how the greater aftercare industry is functioning and performing and we've kind of continually just kept collecting

47:04that data and knowing like there's more that we can do with this like we're just going to hang on to it. So we've just we've got over 5,000 horses in our database at this point and I think one of the big things that we want to work on is really quantifying the breed's contribution to sport in sport breeding and accomplishments in different equestrian pursuits. So we can really start quantifying that and saying making sure the thoroughbred is getting the credit that it's due in the kind of equestrian space because for all intents and purposes the thoroughbred riding horse doesn't have a breed association like the jockey club is the registry and they have some programming that is relevant to non-racing owners but that's not very it's a start but it needs to be more and that's one of the biggest thing that we are aiming to address is like how do we get the thoroughbred kind of on equal playing field with all other riding breeds and I think some of

48:07that really comes down to like we need an actual breed association and the RRP in particular is really well positioned to tackle some of that stuff. So those are kind of the big themes and of course as in many industries like an aftercare and racing kind of thoroughbred landscape in particular there's we don't have total control over how that progresses you know interest and support from the racing industry and play a big part in that. Interesting okay yeah absolutely so the organization in this space like between the racing industry and the sport industry where horses transform from one dub to the next I think it's just like incredible what you guys do but can you explain how the aftercare industry works? Yeah absolutely um this is one of my favorite things to talk about because I don't think that like racing and the aftercare industry take

49:09enough credit for this sort of thing when people are having that kind of like thanks giving dinner table conversation with their aunt who thinks words racing is terrible like the thoroughbred racing industry has actually done a lot to make sure to invest and to get us to a point where we actually have an ecosystem in the United States that is making sure that we have mechanisms to get the horses appropriately transitioned from one one career to the next and and that looks different there's aftercare in all racing jurisdictions all over the world and it looks a little bit different all over the world depending on racing significance in the culture how racing is regulated in that country so it really varies a little bit aftercare in North America is a little bit of a microcosm of racing of it in and of itself because there is no national governing body for

50:10horse racing is a sport it's all regulated on by state level commissions so what that is kind of resulted in is you know we say it's an ecosystem we have a lot of different both entities and just kind of private you know for-profit individuals who are working in what truly has become a sector in and of itself people who are dedicated to doing the work of making sure that the horses are transitioning so that can include lifting agents whether again it's individuals or services like canter or finger like spinest you have the accredited aftercare facilities that means that they've received accreditation status from the thoroughbred aftercare alliance so they are nonprofit facilities that are taking ownership of the horses and adopting them out so that's going to be like mid-Atlantic horse rescue or new vocations of that type of model and we have sanctuary programs

51:15many of them have elements of therapy use equine assisted services or equine assisted therapy and then we have you know resellers and retrainers who again are just people who make their living in the space and that kind of as a collective and then the other the last wedge of the kind of pie is the incentive and advocacy programs is what we call them so that's like RRP the jockey clubs thoroughbred incentive program take two out of New York like those are all programs that are kind of benefiting the collective through their incentive programs in their education and that sort of thing so that's kind of everything that when somebody says aftercare point and quote like that's how we would define it a lot of people when they say aftercare they do just kind of first think of the kind of TAA accredited nonprofit facility but there really is quite a bit more

52:19to the overall landscape than than just that and I think it's really beautiful because the what we have ended up in terms of scope of service really works well considering that the needs of the horses are going to vary the needs of the retiring connections are going to vary the needs of the quote unquote end consumer that is you know taking that horse into a riding career like their level of experience and their needs are going to vary and we have like these systems that can meet any of those needs so all that said it's a really great like huge progress that we've made particularly in the last 10 to 15 years but so many of our organizations are all very similarly aged and we're all reaching this point where we're like okay we've made it this far we've done this much but here's all this other stuff that still could stand to be done that would benefit

53:20the kind of process in the industry so a lot a lot more to do still as well so also since the report came out there's been some really interesting conversations about the language like dropping that OTTB and just calling the horse what it is a thoroughbred and like why is that important to you instead of just like you know the OTTB I think one of the things that were I think particularly is the organization that is possibly the most concerned with marketing the breed we are really sensitive to the words that we're using to describe the breed and I think and this was through no one's ill intent what we have ended up with is aftercare is thought of as being a very charity centric process there are a lot of really great 501c3 programs that are operating in this space that are so important and so necessary but what has

54:24also happened is the breed has been fighting to overcome this concept of like they're all broken down their brains are all fried from racing they're pumped up on a lot of drugs and I think that every little thing that we do that like is associated to that or like in any way bolsters that kind of line of thought needs to be looked at and so I think you know just coming down to just calling it a thoroughbred like there are so many other breeds of horse on this planet that you know they might be bred for one thing start out doing one thing have a career change and go on and do something else and that happens day in day out and nobody bats an eye but because the racing industry is very different from the riding industry we look at it as being this huge leap and it's just not that that huge of a jump basically

55:33so I think that there's a lot that we can do to really kind of normalize and kind of help address stigma if we're just being really thoughtful about our words and I'll be the first to say that probably includes not using words like makeover um and you know being careful about you know there's a lot of organizations out there that have like um recycle and stuff like that in there and so it's just like I think we just need to be really cognizant of like or like the word aftercare too just kind of has this like baked in connotation of like there has to be some kind of intervention in this horse's life and that's just not it's we can be looking at it through a much more positive lens than I think we are and I don't think anybody sat down was like this is what the brand of every of this line of work or this industry is going to be it was all

56:35very well intentioned but I think we've just collectively as an industry move the needle and we kind of need to be presenting ourselves a little bit different and representing our breed differently yeah I hear that I think it's you know like thoughts evolve our perspectives evolve right our language should evolve with that so I think it's exactly I think it makes a lot of sense yeah yeah and that's not gonna happen overnight like we're not gonna jump up and like rename our organization in our event tomorrow like that that's just not instantaneous stuff but I think that we can kind of be a thought leader and and find places where we can make be cognizant and make those adjustments and I think that it'll come a lot easier than anybody thinks it will yeah no I love your attitude for sure like so I was curious because the report also mentions national policy what kind of policy changes would you like to see um so I that's a little bit of we we struggled

57:44with how to word that because as I mentioned like aftercare is a little bit of a microcosm in racing and just kind of there's no there's no governing body for aftercare really either I mean there's you know accrediting bodies like the TAA which are great but there's not um you know some like overarching oversight um so I think some of when we say national policy some of that is just a matter of coming together in circumstances with other kind of national level organizations and and brainstorming on things information sharing making sure that we're kind of in alignment and how we approach our respective work um I'd also think that we're reaching a point where we're um gonna start seeing on the kind of state regulation level a little bit more consideration for aftercare so that could mean racing commissions who are licensing race race horse owners

58:46and race horse trainers you know they're required to do continuing education um and I think that will start seeing some momentum to where you know maybe we have like an aftercare continuing education course to make sure that these people that are you know at the front line of that like point of retirement decision process are you know well educated on the options and stuff that are available to them so it might not necessarily mean like we're gonna go to Capitol Hill and fight on x y or z issue um but that could be kind of a little bit more on the local level in terms of governance from district to district um representing the kind of aftercare perspective and the things that are relevant to that industry um you know another good example is like whether or not we can get the safe act passed that's that's big national level legislation and you know there's implications for that getting passed that are certainly gonna be that are

59:47adjacent to aftercare relevant to aftercare um we certainly like would like to get to a point where we can address that pipeline and if we get that passed like what are the implications of that for those of us working in the space it'll be a win but then we also have to make sure that we're prepared to address unwanted horse issues um so i think just making sure that rp is in a space where we can represent our constituency um and the people that are doing the work um making sure that their voices are heard in those conversations so kirsten the strategic report that goes from 2026 to 2020 or 2030 is available on the website right so if folks want to read it themselves that's all publicly available yep absolutely there's um it's you know multi a couple like a dozen sides or something like that that map through like there's three main priorities and kind of like action points and focus areas

1:00:54underneath and it goes through all of that and we're really excited to share it with our community we want to spread it far and wide we want to talk to people about it so really do invite people to go ahead and take a look and drop us a line and let us know your thoughts um it's should be it's pretty prominent there on our homepage on our website at vrrp.org got it and if anybody wants to be more involved with the rp i i imagine that website it's a great place to start too yeah that's um you know being involved with rp looks a little bit different than you know getting involved with your local aftercare organization because like i said we don't have stalls to muck or anything like that but um you know we certainly have opportunities for volunteerism and especially at the makeover and Kentucky and the fall like need plenty of people to help us get that thing off the ground so volunteerism and just kind of staying engaged with what we're doing or if we have events that are coming to your region all of that will be available on our website also

1:01:58awesome well kirsten it's been so great to have you thanks so much for taking some time yeah i appreciate it great questions you guys all right guys it's time for rose and thorn who wants to go first i can go first okay so i feel like i need to start with my thorn because i think ellie might die laughing about my thorn and she's probably going to think of it as a rose to be honest i'm always excited when there's a plot twist plot twist so we're going down to okala for hits which everybody knows we love hits like such a fun time that was great you know we we always have a bunch of adventures when we go to florida and so this time i'm like it was the kid spring break so we're driving down i loaded up first thing in the morning i was going to drive one of the rigs and dugs teaching one of the girls to drive the big rigs so i'm driving the four worse in my truck

1:02:58so i get in kids are great like i'm cruising honestly like dugs stopped he took a little longer so i just kept going and i was probably 45 minutes ahead of him and i had three horses in my trailer because the princess quincey had his you know box stall after you know the last kind of situation we had so i'm i'm on the horses and guys i'm like feeling great about myself to be honest i'm like this is great like we had clients there they're helping me unload and all of a sudden nice this white thing and i'm like it's kind of weird and it's crawling under my tire and i'm like okay so i like don't grab the horse i was going to grab and i look under the tire and i'm like that's a cat kind of looks like one of our new cats like that can't be for real and so and i'm in i'm being delusional at this point i understand so i grab the cat it lets me grab it by its face and pull it out of like underneath my tires and i'm like this isn't this isn't my cat

1:03:59like this can't be because we had this like little sibling set show up a little girl and boy and the kids call him cookie and ice cream and i walk over to my children that are in the back of the truck like praying they're gonna be like that's not ours and i'm like guys and Abigail's like cookie i'm like no i mean i was just in denial i somehow and i don't actually know if i took the cat in the tack room or in the horse part because i left in the dark and i don't know if she was hiding under a bunch of the hay and the four-wheeler and stuff but we took one of our cats from north Carolina to florida and so then we go there's more there's more really so bad Ellie it gets so bad so then i go to dollar general i get it some food and we keep it in the middle part of dog trailer because it's like taller so we keep it and i'm like okay i'm gonna drive home and drive

1:05:00this you know the kids have spring breaks ending but we're there for two weeks i'm gonna drive this cat home and we're gonna be good because it doesn't need to stay in florida for two weeks so on sunday i go to drive this cat home and we open it up it the kids have played with it every day left the ramp down we got it a harness and a leash and it went all around the horse show it was ridiculous to be honest it was having a great time it was having a great time i love it sunday morning we go open it up for me to drive this cat home and there's no cat oh no anyway oh it's gone so then we tell our children like no no cookies like she just went to play somewhere like if we leave the ramp down she's gonna come back for her food like we're basically like you know this probably not gonna happen cats probably like run away and you know not coming back so i get in the car i drive all the way back home i was supposed to fly home keep in mind but i didn't wasn't gonna fly with the cat two and a half hours into the trip the girls found the cat

1:06:03it was wandering around the horse like barn it just did it want to leave florida it's like i'm having it i'm a horse show cat now okay the cat stayed for the additional week i just drove home for fun and back they were to school for four days i had to drive back down a day early and we successfully got the cat home on sunday of the second week we put it in the trailer it went home with us the second week in the trailer and when we got home at like nine ten o'clock a night Abigail wakes up they'd slept most the trip she wakes up goes and gets it out of Doug's trailer because i was like okay it's gonna go in there so stripped it in there and literally the cat's now back at home oh the great adventure cookies great adventure i love that and in the clients like we had this big group chat and they're like we think cookies should go to every horse show i'm like absolutely no so my thorn was the adventures of cookie oh my goodness all the pictures

1:07:10of her and her harness at the horse show she had a pink harness i had to go find i mean the whole thing is absolutely ridiculous so and then my rose was probably a once in a lifetime experience um Susan johns who is a very good friend fed of ours uh did a lot of work on both Trevor and Doug's horses loves the adventures of our kids everywhere and flying um a couple months ago reached out and said we had sent her we sent her like you know the adventures of the kids and stuff and we had we're lucky enough when we were in wellington we flew by air force one and we thought that was the coolest thing so we took pictures of it like just on the runway and thought that was super cool well it turns out long story short she was with a pilot and we ended up long story getting invited to tour air force one um while we were we did it right before we went to the ocala trip oh so is this the new air force one or the old air force one

1:08:17no the one president trump flies in and so it's the one that actually uh Nancy Reagan designed and that was the coolest part about it is we got to actually learn about the history that all the different presidents flying in it Nancy Reagan designed it and she actually never flew in it until Reagan passed away and she designed it that the presidents could get transported in it once they had passed that their casket could actually fly in the plane and so she flew in it and then we heard all funny stories about you know the different presidents and like what they do and you know the different class that like basically what I found super interesting was that um basically you can't move forward in the plane you can only move uh backwards so the media is in the back and that's why you always see the presidents like in the doorway because they can move backwards but it's like the media and the secret service and the service

1:09:19members and all that that are flying and then the VIP guest and like just the way that the whole thing went was super interesting and every president's kind of made it their own um and Nancy Reagan wanted it to feel like a home so she wanted at one point these glass bases to be near everything and the FFA was like absolutely not so they're actually titanium like bolted but it is there's offices in there it is truly like what I would imagine the White House on you know wheels to be like oh wow that's neat so yeah so the whole thing was just a very educational thing that you know we were amazed that we actually got to do and it was a blessing but yeah it was super cool um to go and do that and yeah I mean it was it was a history lesson in itself for sure yeah no that's cool so Ellie what is your rose and thorn well I'll start with

1:10:23my rose because I have a two-part thorn so my rose is that Batman is doing really well um he got his recheck CT with contrast um and everything is looking like yeah he's got some phone remodeling and things like that but everything is looking good he's acting like himself so he's gonna stay on doxy for like another month and then he needs his original surgery for his THO for his arthritis but that one is a standing surgery so it's a cheaper for me um and then I hope Batman is done with surgery forever um she is seriously surely yeah I'm like but I'm just glad that he's doing better on the mend and my and let me tell you I am so grateful because there is it's

1:11:27expensive but it's so worth it for the freaking convenience you can buy doxy in like a tube like a warmer tube oh really yes and it is so much easier because obviously after like a couple doses of doxy right your horse is like doxy taste terrible yeah they don't want to eat it yeah and it's so much easier than mixing the powder in water this is like a you know it's almost like a perfect prep consistency and I just squirt in you know 15 ml twice a day and it is it 30 bucks a two yes just 30 bucks only last me two days yes but I'm paying for that convenience because I know he's actually getting the med I feel like still waiting yeah yeah um so it's worth it um so thank you to whoever created that although Matt got some in his mouth the other day and he said it's definitely not apple flavor oh no it's like well how did that happen I don't think he said he was like he somehow just

1:12:36like he was wiping his mouth and then he got some um like what wiping Batman's mouth and he got some on his finger and he didn't know and then he had like a hair because everyone is shedding everything in his mouth so he just touched his mouth before it was but um but yeah so I'm glad that Batman is doing well and I'm hoping that we will continue on this path um my my thorn is really sad um because my mom had to put down her heart horse Sully um god it was a sour and a freak accident a couple weeks ago and it just totally sucked because you know it's it's hard when you have to make a decision but it's hard to when it just you're not at all prepared um and he was just like honestly the coolest gentle giant he was like almost 18 hands and um he you know he was the first

1:13:41horse I rode after being paralyzed because I was like I trust this horse to you know just be pop around on and um he was definitely like the bond that he and my mom had was incredible so my thorn is just I I feel so bad for my mom and I'm I'm sad for me because I loved him and I'm gonna try not to cry um oh my gosh I'm I'm sad for my mom because this was definitely her heart horse and yeah it's the first time for her that she doesn't have another horse at the barn um so like it's completely out of her routine um so that's I think just adding to the level of hardness um but it's a two-part thorn because people suck and I think it's mainly because people don't know how to handle grief right and they don't know how to like

1:14:42say things and it's one of those things where people should just keep their mouths shut if they don't know what to say because instead of like you know being supportive or anything like that people have been saying the most like inconsiderate things so my mom like oh well I'm glad you don't have or I'm sure you're glad that you don't smell like horse now when you get home from the barn oh my god oh I'm sure I'm glad that you're I'm sure you're glad that you don't have to drive in bad weather now to go walk your horse when they're stuck inside it's like do you think at all before you speak like honestly just so unaware yeah yeah and it's like and this is from fellow horse people which like I'm like yeah like I I'm stunned and my mom's too nice to say anything to these people but I want to ring them new you know just like if you don't have something nice to say just shut your mouth right seriously I'm sorry for no yeah well I can continue the people

1:15:52people suck train on my thorn so my this isn't the thorn part of the thorn but I moved Mikey to a new barn which seems a little unexpected right like but yeah yeah kind of had some questions about that yeah yeah so he's at a new barn but it's it's lovely it's a massive upgrade for him but in a funny twist of events it's the barn that Mikey lived at previously before I moved to the it's like we moved back to where we were before but um oh good I remember I was leasing yes yeah I was leasing a farm with a friend of mine and then that property sold which is why I left well the person who bought it is my vet so my horse vet bought this property and is looked there for the last I don't know I think I've been gone from that property like a year and a half um but she bought it and she's not like a you know like a full-fledged boarding operation

1:16:55but there was an opportunity to move back to that property um and not have to shovel the manure myself anymore and I was like wow that sounds great sounds so nice so I moved but there's some other parts to the reason why I moved and it's sadly people it's people um the last barn I was at was like a you know just a normal boarding facility it was you know like someone's had a barn in their backyard but it was close to town it was more of like an urban farm so it was a smaller property right because the closer you get to like town the less land there is and there's a part of town where I live where um there's like an old history of like horse farms in the area but they're very small so um and like to have some urban horse trails which is kind of cool and the city has a park with like arenas and stuff so like it was fun and interesting to be part of this part of town for a little while

1:17:56but I I don't know obviously uh I'm sure if you interviewed all all the women involved like none of us are innocent but so I can't say I didn't do something to rub somebody the wrong way but it just became clear that I was not really welcome at my barn anymore so um I started looking for options but um I'm sad to see that as like a 38-year-old woman who's own horses my whole life I've never you know what I mean like I've never really left a boarding situation with a bad taste my mouth um so it is what it is you know personality clashes I was the only person who who um had a dressage horse there maybe that had something to do with it you know like I wasn't using the trainers at the farm I don't know anyways I hate I hate that that exists though in our sport and I don't know why you know what I mean like I don't know why everyone can't be nice um yeah people suck people do and it's weird it's like I you know I like personally I felt like I was um

1:19:01made a lot of friends there and was invested in other people's journeys with their horses and helping them when I could so you know it's sad when things don't work out you know the or like you're like as I felt blindsided by it because I was like I didn't realize people were that terrible yeah you know so um but that's okay you know it's um uh I am I am in my life and every aspect of my life personal professional you just sometimes people don't get along you know so um my personality is not for everybody apparently but so might get moved back to a farm that he's lived at before um and he's back in big grass pastures with lots of friends and honestly just being there for a couple of weeks um he seems uh so much happier so I am I'm happy for him and the previous barn that year and a half that I spent there proved that I can keep Mikey's sound which you know when I moved there I wasn't sure

1:20:05we were still rehabbing the coffin bone fracture and I didn't know if it meant he was going to be retired or not but that place did give me that opportunity to go okay I can keep this horse sound we can still have some riding goals um and I don't have to be an insane micromanaging a helicopter mom and Mikey can go outside and have friends again and um so it served its purpose and but I'm just happy for Mikey who seems really thrilled to be back at the place for that we have a covered arena with nice footing um you can walk off the property onto hundreds of acres of trails which is great so overall it's a rose like I'm happy for the for the move um the one at the how do you have to get there right yeah just said that it took that it like cost relationships and friendships um like for no good reason you know I mean like they're like none of that needed to happen but um I can't control other people and uh I'm gonna focus on what I can control right um absolutely so my

1:21:08thorn is that shortly after I moved Mikey like less than a week I was um driving home and it was like out of stop light and just like you know sitting at the red light and then what bam I got rear-ended um and it was a big rear end uh a man who was uh quite clearly under the influence because he was later arrested a rear ended me and told my truck and it's um that's not terrifying it's just been a nightmare you know um I mean my truck was old and I loved her and she had definitely seen better days but uh and she kept me safe that day I'm really lucky because I think if I was in a smaller car this situation would have been very different but um it's just a nightmare and for the record insurance is a scam like everything about this process is just such a pain in the butt and I'm like driving a little rental small SUV right now and I just miss my truck and uh

1:22:09it's such a hassle every like everything about this is such a hassle and I'm it's like not even my fault and it's expensive and everything is just a crap shoot you know so that is my thorn is like because it's like an agonizingly slow process of like weeks to figure out what happens next for them to decide that my truck was total that you know like it's just a pain in the butt so that is my thorn um that's okay yeah yeah thank you me too I'm glad I'm okay but RIP to my poor truck I miss it I miss my truck but you know I'll get a new one I guess another truck eventually so but on a lighter note we have a mailback from Amy who posted this in our Facebook group which I thought would be fun um to discuss among among all you guys um so Amy wants to know if we do we have any favorite exercises to help build fitness in horses it it sounds like she's bringing a couple

1:23:15horses back into work and is looking for good ways to get them fit and trim and like ready for show season I have two big ones um walking lots of walking and also if you can find any kind of terrain any kind of hills any kind of everything that is massive for us like we even um like even the jumpers will go on our big hill and just work on the side of the hill and it doesn't have to be long like a lot of times we just walk them up and down or walk them all around and then sometimes we'll do a small little canter spread top sometimes we'll flatten them on the side of the hill sometimes we'll flatten them on the top and then walk them down and just adding any bit of that terrain I find really kind of helps them build the fitness faster than you can do on a any sort of flat surface hmm I love that okay Ellie what are your tips I definitely agree with pull are with

1:24:18hills but poles trot poles that everything yep I love poles I loved I love raised poles especially for like when you can't do something like if you can't do trot poles just like walking them over raised poles just to like get their hind engaged so for example if they're you know rehabbing or stuck on stall rest because of an injury like a cut or something and you're trying to make sure that they're they don't waste their muscle like those are things that I really like and I'm a big fan of you know just like simple trot sets you know just like walk for a long time trot for two minutes and then walk for another long time like I think that stuff I know that helps me build my fitness after winter off sure so I know it helps them too oh those are great yeah so I love hills but those are hard to come by in Florida so I definitely agree with the poles and then like when

1:25:23I've brought Mikey back like rehabbing I did a lot on the trails like trot sets just like get up in a two-point and like trot for several minutes and then you know as the weeks go on trot because I couldn't do a lot of circles right during rehab like just a long straight line of trotting I just felt like that was good fitness for me too you know being in a two-point having to be up off his back and you can just go for longer rides on the trails with a little bit more varied terrain is what I would add to that so I think those are all great exercises for you Amy but if you have any others that you guys would suggest to our listeners you can always post that in our Facebook group too we always have great discussions there and if you want to send us a question that you'd like for us to answer on the show you can always send us an email at justineatheelsdownmedia.com or again you can post that in the Facebook group it's the Heels Down Happy Hour podcast lounge

1:26:24and if you want to hear more from us check us out at heelsdownmag.com for the latest news and make sure you're following us on social media we're at Heels Down Happy Hour on Instagram and at Heels Down Mag on Facebook and TikTok and if you love our show please give us a rate and review on Apple podcasts Spotify or Google Play or wherever you listen to podcasts we want to say thank you to our partners hits and equal gold all right guys that's a wrap cheers