Has VAR CHAOS masked Man United mess?

0:00This is a global production. Where's the accountability? When does somebody take responsibility or something change? We just kind of seem to go around in a loop of nonsense that's getting for me more and more annoying. This is red meat, and I think at times it's used as a way to weaponize the idea that VR shouldn't exist. There is always an element of subjectivity with the decisions that they see. If you've got the facts at your disposal and you could have cleared that up very quickly, oh we can't look at that. Well you managed to use that earlier in the season. Footballers have a responsibility to each other, don't they? Nathan? But we don't want players to be nice with the other players. Like careers that on the line, moments really matter. Hello, welcome to the Sports Agents.

1:02Hi Gabby, hey, Nathan, a Hectic Sports weekend. Yeah, a very good one though. Very, very good one. Yeah, had the whole weekend off work watched more sport than I have done for, I'd say weeks just the cramding so much went to a live rugby game, watched a lot of tennis, loved the ultimate championships, didn't watch loads of the Soul Heimkut, but kept across that thanks to radio. So it's been, yeah, it's been an absolute kind of bounty, hasn't it, this weekend? The Soul Heimkut was just two consecutive weekends of team golf with the Walker Cup the previous week and then the Soul Heimkut, and it was, oh, it's been brilliant. I like to, especially off the back of the Walker Cup the week before, and for all the teams out of it, four Sims, four balls, all this stuff in this team event, it still comes down to the singles, which is something, like in some ways they're much very much used to, like last week with the Walker Cup, after I think the US won the morning session on the last day. Oh, it's like, well, this is done, isn't it? Yeah. And the singles bang, and then as was Gabby, we're saying before,

2:03I enjoy the world ultimate championships as well, but I don't know if that's just because I'm an athletic sicker, if you know what I mean, like a lot of times. Well, we are going to talk in more detail about that later in the show, so nicely segwayed there, Nadem. That's coming up, and as well as performances, there's a bit I want to say about. Maybe I'll get your job on the one show. There's a bit of a say about the whole format of that, actually, which is quite interesting, and the look of it and some nice attempts at innovation, but we can discuss that a little bit later on. There's a little bit of trouble potentially at Old Trafford, that I think we need to get into trappers. We'll no doubt have a take on that. And of course, we've got to talk about Vaugh. He's shaking his head. He's got nothing to say about Old Trafford, so stand by your beds, everybody. That could be an empty section. But I think you probably will have something to say about what went on yesterday. Because obviously, the whole match has been distilled down into controversy because of far. So it's ended up just being a load of graphics,

3:03and a load of conversation about angles and explanations, and then eventually apology. And what happens with these things is, because as we've already discussed, there's so much going on in the landscape of sport and football, everybody will move on. Where's the accountability? When does somebody take responsibility or something change? We just kind of seem to go around in a some kind of loop of nonsense that's getting for me more and more annoying. Well, well, well. OK, so I'll take the lead on this analysis, trappers, Mike isn't working. For what I would say is that when people say they're like seeking accountability, like accountability will be there amongst referees and referees do make mistakes and have made mistakes continually. I think my issue, one of my issues with yesterday, is a bigger issue. It's a bigger issue in the fact that when VR works well, we skip over it, we don't recognise it. When we see that it doesn't,

4:05then it almost feels like it's this huge pile on to say, well, it's not worth it. I think the two issues yesterday, like I personally don't think that fold foot. I think most people that I've seen in my orbit, maybe some don't so believe that it was either going to be too red or nothing at all for folding and brewing off Fernandez. That one depends on which side of the internet you get. You sort of see football from. But then the offside. So my mind was actually swayed with the offside because three years ago, brewing off Fernandez scored a goal in a Manchester derby against... It was a point where... Marcus Rassier was played through on goal and is running from an offside position. And as a consequence, I think there's Manu Okangi and Karl Walker who was sort of trying to defend against him thinking he's offside. And then brewing off Fernandez came and scored first time. An old city player put their hand up and said, buddy's offside. And then at this point, the discourse online was a... Well, Marcus Rassier didn't touch the ball, so he's not interfering. But I think anyone that's played football before knows that somebody can be interfering without touching the ball because you have to take them seriously.

5:05But because that goal was given, in my mind, I thought, well, I guess that's the way that it's going to be. And then as a consequence, when I saw that goal yesterday with the position of Enzo Fernandez, I was like, well, that's the same as the goal three years ago, so it doesn't matter. And then this course starts to really file through. And there's so much confusion, as you guys have said, every... We... Everyone probably knows the better what the rule is now, but they still don't understand why it happened. And then the referees' association, they're having to say something after the game. And I think the accountability will come because, firstly, like, pro-PRO, they are quite accessible. They did release the statement. They will be talking to those referees that were involved. And people, not necessarily, won't be punished, but maybe they'll not necessarily be on the next game. And I think that's something that's been the case for a very, very long time. But again, this is red meat. And I think at times it's used as a way to weaponize the idea that VR shouldn't exist. But if you look at other places with VR, you see a whole lot more mistakes.

6:08And people aren't really moving on from that, in my opinion. My thing is, the more... I think the more they have tried to help referees, the more complicated they have made it. And that is kind of what it feels like to me. And that could be with Hamburg, it could be with Offside, the nowadays. And if you look at it from others' broadcasters, there aren't that many... Or it doesn't feel like there aren't that many shows now, where you have a show where you don't have to put up a law or a statement. At some point, as a graphic. And when you put up a law, and the two that I suppose you go to most of Hamburg and Offside, and they are sort of either two or three pages for what essentially should be a simple game. You do wonder where you are, where you are ending up.

7:11It's almost as if they try to include every eventuality in a rule. By doing so, it makes it even more complicated. To your point, though, there, on VAR, VAR itself, which is the intervention of technology, supposedly, to clear up situations. It feels to me it's not that that's being... It's the human side of this, that is the thing that is clogging up the system. And to that, these explanations, the graphics, it's not actually the camera angle, right? It's not the line... The very beginning of it, I was like, where's the line going to be drawn? Remember those simple days? Why is the line so wiggly? That's what we've kind of... It feels like it's not the technology. It's the human interpretation that is making it, and to Mark's point, so much more complicated. I'm making it as one of our stories this morning, turning to rugby. Yeah, so again, sometimes, I'm sure there will be lots of people talking about this podcast and saying,

8:12I sound like a show for referees, but it's just because I'm not as like anti-hittis other people. So as a consequence, I sound like I've basically got my referees, batching cards, and my pocket, all this. I think... So what they said yesterday, PRO, was that they made a mistake in the judgment. But that, to some people, means that they made a mistake allowing the goal. But what they said was that they should have shown the referee the video of the goal, so that he can make a subject to a decision about whether it should have stood or not. All the rules are still in play, but for some people who are adamant that shouldn't have been a goal. That's the confirmation that shouldn't have been a goal. And I think one thing you see through football in general is to be fair, all sports, which are refereed. There is always an element of subjectivity with the decisions that they see. And I think for the way that a video assistant referee works, but they're there to support the referee not to override their opinion. So I think it can be in some ways very tricky and also to mention what Chapters were saying. When most people fall in love with football or fall in love with a sport, they don't do it according to reading the manual

9:14that is the law book or the rule book. They do it based on, say, the loose rules, this is offside. This is this, this is that. It's never word for word, it's never verbatim or whatever. However, with the way that you have these video assistant referees now, and this is across all sports and reviews, you almost have to learn the rule book when you've very established that you think you know how the game works anyway. And I think that for me is the biggest test that so many people have, and it makes them really uncomfortable because it says, well, why is this the case? Why is that the case? And for the guys yesterday, I think they've made a, I as a former defender, so there's my bias. I think the Bruno Fernandez goal three years ago and that's who I'm in shouldn't have stood. And I think the goal yesterday shouldn't have stood. But if you allow me to lightly segue right here, the VR discussion is a far bigger discussion than the fact that the game went the way that it went with what I thought was an advantage big enough for Manchester United to be able to win, you know, yourself. The other thing, which comes back to the, less of a gray area when it comes to discussing offside,

10:17but certainly a gray area when it comes to food and Fernandez, and probably with the, the Arsenal Sunderland penalty, which Mikhail Arthetta was very upset about as well, is a do, a do think that Roy Keane had a point at halftime on sky and does have a point, and it's not the first time he said it, which footballers have a responsibility to each other, don't they, Nathan? And therefore, it's very difficult to be overly critical of referees in certain situations when footballers don't help themselves. And everybody will then go, well, we don't have a player that does that, or we don't have somebody that does that, or we don't hold, or we don't grapple, or we don't go down easily, or where every team has them. And if players are consistently looking to get advantages

11:18by wrestling or throwing themselves to the ground easily, or making more of a tackle or a supposed injury than really is the case, Roy is right, isn't he? I mean, I know there's all the attention on whether you should do this or that when it comes to the referees. So yes and no, and I respect the message, but that is the same Roy Keane that ended after England's career, after England's career with that foot to the knee. So you would think there's some sort of level of care towards your sort of peers would also be beneficial from that standpoint. And I think in some ways I'm using that as a vehicle to say that as a player, it's incredibly competitive what you do. Like careers that on the line, moments really matter. And I think in my mind for the red card, Bruno Fernandez is sort of like baited field fold and field fold has done something. And Bruno Fernandez has sold it really well because even after the incident happened, he sort of like turned towards the middle of the pitch

12:18and listened to it. I don't know about how all pain works, but I've never seen like a 180 spin to see, ah, riff on bass, ah, ah. You know what I mean? But he's won that and that's some of the like, some of like the nuance of the sport itself, trying to find ways to upset the opposition to try and get them down to 10. And I think at times as fans, like we don't want players to be nice, nice with the other players. You kind of want a fair game, but then you only want a fair game until the game starts. And then before you know it, you're just all driven by it. And I think to Lincoln of the sport, which we cover a lot on here, I think somebody was saying, I believe it was Limford Christie on the start line when it's like on your marks. He'd get a little bit of the track and throw it into the lane of the opposition next to him just to like, just be like, what's going on here? You know, that's the level of like gamesmanship that you can have even in a sport like that where you basically have your lane and you can run as quickly as you can. So I think for Bruno Fernandez, in that moment, say, Phil Fowlund is like thinking,

13:19what's going on here? Marcus Frashford standing behind with his arms up in the air saying, I can't believe he's done that. Phil Fowlund is probably one of his best ways, you know? No. But that's the thing, when you put that shirt on, when you go on play, there's 70,000 people in that stadium that did not want Bruno Fernandez to be checking on Phil Fowlund to make sure he's all right. They want to win. That's why he can hear it in the crowd. And I think for Roy, I don't remember many games where he played it in that manner because even going back to say his time when he had that rivalry with Arsenal, him and Patrick Vieiro, all that stuff. But it appears, didn't really feel like that adductive care towards each other in my opinion. Is there... I don't know. Listen, I'm not saying he's wrong, by the way. I'm not saying he's wrong, but I'm just saying sometimes the message is... It does feel... It does feel like there has been a dramatic ramping up this weekend because of Arsenal, Sunland, Sunland Arsenal, and then the penalty, and then obviously what happened yesterday, because actually the first few weekends, and I'm about you, Chapters, but it felt like sitting there, watching all the matches over the weekend, that there was this lighter touch that we'd been told,

14:20the referees were kind of briefed on, having a lighter touch, and there were a lot of incidents where things were let go, and you know, matches where you felt like that you weren't talking about technology or referee. And so I don't know, this weekend, it just, as it was bound to, I guess, as it was bound to, it has become front and center. But the other thing, just on offside, and I'm not joining Nadem's sort of pro, let's be a big fan of all referees. But there are most games, and bear in mind, I see virtually the 90 minutes of every single game over the course of the weekend with a Saturday afternoon and everything else. But the number of tight calls that assistant referees get right on offside is truly, truly phenomenal. What they, what they, I'm not saying, this isn't a kind of, I don't want you and I as your fans jumping on me for a go, but they do, they do get a phenomenal number right.

15:20But I just thought, yes, they was a bad day really. Yeah, and in my mind, I feel like people should be allowed to have a bad day and not say because they're just bad day every day is a bad day. And I think that's something that, that's why I said before, it can be weaponized against that group of individuals, and the lighter touch idea that Gabi you were talking about, that's come from, say, the PGML, like the body, like listening to what, like fans and other stakeholders within the game want. Because two seasons ago, I said, oh, these reviews are taken too long, there's too much of that. I said, and as mad as it may sound, the lighter touch this weekend was based on, well, the rest says it's a red card, did this happen? Well, yeah, this happened. So yeah, just send it off, whereas maybe two years ago, maybe they would potentially be more to it. You know what I mean? I suppose what people with regard to that incident is if you've got the facts at your disposal, and you could have cleared that up very quickly, well, we can't look at that. Well, you managed to use that earlier in the season for an incident that you're saying, now you can't use it for, that's what, it's inconsistency, isn't it?

16:20I think that people get a bit vexed by it as well, that one weekend something isn't apparently being able to be looked at, and two weekends ago it is. And listen, this is one of the upside and downside of sport, because that inconsistency is exactly what happens with players, with fan bases, with pitches, with everything. Everyone is seeking this level of light, where everything will be as consistent as it comes. Briefed out with the case, then you wouldn't win one week and lose the next. Like, this is all a big part of football, unfortunately, when humans are involved, that's one of the reasons why we love it, but also one of the reasons why we get them as frustrated as well. Okay, a quick reminder to catch up on our previous episodes on YouTube, global player, or wherever you get your podcasts, make sure you subscribe, or follow an email review as well, if you can while you're there. Coming up, Varmée have dominated the fallout, but is that distracting from some real problems at Manchester United? Keen Carvani stood hayload by the morning sun, an army hung on her every word.

17:22My champions, I have sold my chariot on Carvana to us a lovely SUV, an inexplicably queenly offer. They're even coming to the castle to collect it! Tonite, we feast. And offer you can feast on. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up Fee's mail, fly. So we're going to talk about Manchester United, Chapters. They now have four points from four games. Can I just jump in, Gaby? Can I just jump in? NFL season got underway this weekend. The Chicago Bears beat the Carolina Panthers, 59, 37, 59 points. It was an offensive masterclass by the Bears with Caleb Williams as a superstar and Ben Johnson as the head coach. It had the most points scored in the first half of any NFL game ever, I think. It was a joy

18:27to watch. I can't believe they're the team. They call this filibusting, don't they? I can't believe. I cannot believe that the team I support are so exciting to watch and just put a massive smile on my face and I love watching them. Yeah, sorry. You were saying. Excellent work there. Excellent work there, Mark. You know how easy it is to just snip that out, don't you? I can't give it as the answer to every single question that is in this section. The thing is about that match yesterday. When Phil Foden went off, I think we all thought we were going to be discussing, well, a narrow win to Manchester United against 10-man Manchester City because they capitalised on the fact that City had gone down to 10 men at home and the crowd have been completely up for it at that point, which they were. And it is that misopportunity.

19:30Is there a lack of creativity? Is there a lack of ambition in the team? I know. I know you're looking at this through a sky blue eyes, pale blue eyes. So, you know, it's a very different mood in your household to chap us. But there's something, there's something just not clicking this inside. What would the bears do, well? With my chest, you might. You spent a large portion of the day yesterday with Wayne Rooney and he's very good mates with Michael Carrick. What's his take? I think his take and I'm sure, I mean, said it a little bit last night and I'm sure it will be everywhere as well, and this is my take as well, which is either this is not all on. This is four games into a season and this isn't really all on Michael Carrick. And obviously the fan base was maybe a little bit split as to whether Michael Carrick should get the job or not.

20:35And I would probably say much going fans were more wanting Carrick than maybe the social media universe. I think the feeling from Wayne and I would go along with this is those above him have not built this squad particularly well for the season ahead. And I don't necessarily think they've built this squad particularly well over the last few years. And I think it's those above who you have to a question how they've built that squad. And you go even further to the owners and the protests against the owners and go Manchester City spent and Chelsea spent on one midfield and nearly what United spent on three midfielders. So if you're this massive commercial behemoth how have you I know you haven't had champions league football for two years. How have you got yourself into a mess whereby you're spending on three players what your rivals are basically spending on one.

21:40And therefore in a nutshell all of three each individual midfielders over. Yeah, I think two things can be true. And I don't necessarily think Michael Carrick's doing a bad job. But what I would say is for all the issues that you've mentioned which I think are like valid issues especially for people who you know support the club and want the club to kick on from positions that they've been in the last few years. And from a purely footballing standpoint. Would you've expected to have four points after four games based on the fixtures when they first came out chapters. Would you expect them to have that few? No, I would have. I would have probably expected seven. And I think I think you could have I think you could have gone with. I think this is a premier league where a lot of with the exception of Arsenal and maybe actually the way city of started. I think anybody can beat anybody else a genuine genuinely do home or away. I think anybody can beat anybody else. And I know it's early days and therefore things may settle down. But full of really could have been Liverpool on Saturday.

22:43Whole, whole definitely could have been Chelsea on Saturday afternoon. So there are there are enough. Everything feels very, very balanced and equal at the moment. I do agree with you when you say that the league is in this position to where it feels like anyone could sort of be anyone. But when you are a team in my opinion like Manchester United who finished third last season who for as much as the balance might be a bit off. Her brought in reinforcements someone like a tealumans who's hugely experienced you've got somebody like a man who playing. I still would have expected more and yesterday I'll be completely transparent here. When Philfolden got sent off I was basically throwing stuff around the house and was like what's the point in this game now. Because I thought based on the team that I thought United were that that would mean especially in the context of playing at home it being a derby. That that should lead to three points for United. And the fact that he didn't makes me so wonder from a football standpoint whether my expectations on them are unrealistic.

23:44Because I'm with you like Arsenal feel like continuity. And that's a great position for them to be in given the fact that it just won the Premier League. And if one of these last three or four games in the whole competition is across different sort of different ways. And the grandest dominated possession sometimes is the grip going to Sondal and sometimes hanging on to all I know whatever it is. I get that you can see a more escapist city starting to improve but you don't know what it's going to be like in the trenches in months to come. But I don't see why United couldn't have been aside that was more consistent. I think there are just three things I want one one the other thing that Wayne did and he said it as part of the analysis on match the day was. The more that game went on the more they all they all started trying to be individual heroes and shooting from 25 yards and 30 yards or you know trying to put a last gas crossing rather than. Following the process and taking the best option and so on and so forth so that that was his point. Expectation is a really interesting point Nathan because United fans said to me yesterday when I was talking to them about it.

24:48And this is why in many ways this is why the red card was a nightmare for United. All of a sudden there's expectation you mentioned the word expectation. Manchester United in this world don't appear to deal particularly well with expectation I expected to win again look at all that really good performance as over the past 12 months. It's come against the so called bigger teams arsenal away the the Darby at home micro carrots first game in charge Liverpool away. They have when the expectation is less that seems to be when they deliver more. Where does that where does that come from? I don't know but that's an interesting psychological point isn't it? But is that what something you rely on like the manager to sort of take out the players though well that's the way to come from. Yeah yeah because we've wait point when he said they're just trying to be the hero now again like that could be a coaching point and I don't think I personally think my car is doing is doing a bad job at all.

25:51I think no I don't have his managing up the opposite down everything yeah with the good coaching staff as well in my opinion yeah and I just I just think. For as much as the squad is imperfect that's when we look at it like basically just in a vacuum when you look around the rest of the league to see where everyone else is at. I would have expected more and it's not to say they start will define them for the whole season but I just would have expected more not least of all in the game yesterday when as I say they were playing against 10 for a long time against the team who in the grand scheme of things. Like if if the result yesterday was united against Arsenal and Arsenal went out to send off to 25 you'd be like fair enough that's Arsenal that's Arsenal stick that's not cities so that result did surprise me a lot. The bears were incredible though honestly the day it was just as well though you know the means amazing it's such a good opening weekend. Red zone is back to us red zone is back now that is so back. Solheim Cup and red zone what a Sunday it's like the end of the out all the other stuff that's just been discussed.

27:13We haven't touched on demonstrations going on as well outside the ground against glazes. Everton Glazer was at the match and I'm sure you're right. So I'm saying that the fans have been treated poorly over these new tickets pricing policy moving long term season ticket holders around the ground getting rid of some season tickets potentially. It feels we touched on this before on the podcast about potential death of the season ticket. It feels like Manchester United might lead the way in that. From what I've seen as well like cuts everywhere and it's a shame because say living in Manchester see lots of people who are associated with work with the football club in some ways and you can talk about how much it's changed.

28:19And maybe to a certain extent some stuff did need to change but the man in which they've done it is really disappointing and again this is just my opinion somebody like Jim Rackler who apparently is from the city. It feels like he represents the city whatsoever. This is the return of the guy who's a big United fan. He wants the glory days back and instead like the club is still separated to where the stuff going on in the field and then a whole heap of issues on the other side of things and it's probably ended up being one of the most underwhelming sort of takeovers which could have been the exact opposite and that's not a great position to be in as a. So they even care about that you know you and I I imagine all of us if we own the football club would be I would be so hurt by that and I would feel I'd let those fans down like do they care do they care what the fans say do they care about demonstrations. Maybe I'm speaking out to her but I don't believe that many billionaires really care about what fans think about things because I think for some of these clubs it's an investment opportunity and as long as they're making their money as we've seen with United across the last 10-15 years of our longest been then does it really matter is ticking over.

29:29So United is an enormous football club so people will always turn up someone might complain but someone else will take that ticket and for them as long as they're making money and you know then they're living their dream they can forget about everyone else's can't they. But anyway since we're since we're talking about money so some got money. Yeah, I mean is it the ultimate athletic championships this weekend they'll make some money there weren't they. They were good prize money and a good turnout stadium looked fantastic few little innovations in the stadium a little black infill area colored sand splashing lights new graphics that were occasionally wrong but but attempts to innovate and we've talked about innovation athletics quite a lot in this podcast and we've talked about Michael Johnson's attempts and actually I did think about Michael watching this weekend and wondering what he thought of it because you know he was so. Passionate about giving athletes a better service and giving them a better reward and making them into the stars and that's what they try to do this weekend they know they tried to elevate the individuals and I think they did a good job of that and I think the performances were interesting as I said on our WhatsApp group last night there were some world leads by some of the you know non European athletes mainly but there were a couple of races where it looked like the last race of the season I think the women's 800 meters which has been a fantastic.

30:48Head to head or even a trip to be could brilliance now with with Femke ball involved has has actually kind of just that kind of petered out in the end in terms of time because obviously a world record was what they wanted at the start of the season they haven't achieved that you mentioned the 800 being a bit on the wall and in some ways but maybe that's because they had the Europeans whereas for the company that's on say they've been racing each other a lot through the season haven't they and they've raised a lot of high intensity competitions but the three of them together whereas the Americans haven't had those big global championship. You know I'm all for innovation and I think it was it was very you know I think it was very positive and it also gave Amy Hunt an opportunity to call out Sydney Sweeney in her post race interview on the BBC which is a pretty decent platform to to have that opportunity and Sydney Sweeney is an American actress who and starlet I don't know what else how I can describe it she's she's also got self involved in a bit politics as well who has just done an ad work for a platform do you not say gambling platform in the US are you

31:54made them it's prediction a prediction platform basically but it would look like what we would recognize as a as a gambling app. Right and in fact no you've got it's making us well for swing and as well by the way so yeah right and very wisely yeah exactly and she's naked in this and she's holding a football and an NFL ball and calls out something about women's sports and it's it's been on billboards and time squares it's obviously all over social media and TV in the in the US it kind of launched think about five days ago and a lot of female sports people have called her out saying this is what female sports looks like and that's what Amy Hunt's point was at the end of her race which she finished fourth by the way in the 200 meters and I just find it so depressing that you know here we are in 2026 where you think you've made progress in women's sport you think you know kind of here you know we're we've mentioned a lot of great women's sport already Chapters was waxing lyrical about the soulheim cup you know there's been a brilliant US open women's tennis final this weekend there has been the WXV international rugby on this weekend you know there's been a lot of women's sports watch the athletics of course as well and that in 2026 an advert like that is still around and is still I you know it's just such a tired cliche and I was glad that all these female athletes

33:20got the opportunity to call her out what's disappointing is that she and there'll be some people saying well she can do what she likes you can take a close up she wants she's actually a shareholder in the platform so she's not just you know being manipulated by the platform she is part owner of the platform she makes the decisions and he is a twist gentlemen last year she played Christy Martin a biopic back Christy Martin who was a boxer and obviously has had a very traumatic life and we know we had did your go get it on the podcast last week talking about women's boxing and you know it just felt to me even more of a kind of sucker punch that she would then be somebody who would put herself in that position and understanding hopefully in her research and playing Christy Martin the journey of women's sport. Gabby unfortunately one of the things about say in my opinion about this advert is that it's one of a series of adverts for this prediction market company because that one is specifically about women's sport but she's doing wider ones as well about just sport in general and this prediction market that they're doing apparently is better than the other ones because you don't bet on war you don't bet on this and I think the fact that they're using that as a positive is a hellscape in itself but we've reached this stage and because

34:37there's such a lack of legislation towards it and there's so many like gray areas we can live in this really really weird time and I don't know how it's ever going to be solved because there's so much money involved but it's not the reminder that it's up for some people they really do have a price and that price means that you'll say and do anything and do whatever is required as long as you get paid the money to do it. It has been a really uplifting podcast today. It's so distilled. Something positive though, something positive and I think in some ways this all okay so the sorry Gabby this one isn't for you but Mark you know the show we did with Granny Jacka. So something happened in that which I thought was of course you did of course you always listen. Something happened in that which sort of slipped under radar at the time but do you remember it's not your goal against Chelsea again listen November 15th everyone know that's got to go against Chelsea if you're online you will know but

35:39granite shaker talking about how. Shabby Alonzo went to about three on his advice. That's such a hugely significant thing because the way that I've seen Shabby Alonzo because I wasn't there tracking say lever coos and in that first preseason but today we associate Shabby Alonzo with the identity of a back three. That's his whole thought this is him this is his thing to grant it but granite shaker it's literally down to granite telling the manager hey pal come on come on come on. You better than that and I thought that sort of slid under the radar just a little bit but I think in some ways it shows when you get the balance right between say feedback and communication from both sides you can and not being quite successful. He was he was a fascinating interview he was such a he was such a nice bloke and just really interesting to talk to and this week we've got another fascinating guest as well when the holona alkan licai will join us obviously the currently third manager is manager of the month he will be with us on Thursday.

36:46I did take it from that podcast just briefly sorry I was just looking to was a center there was a line in it this was the extra bit with Larry on PDs okay you asked me if you felt sorry for or I can't remember I don't want to miss quote you the bad about I asked I think I asked him if he felt if he felt sorry for those who tried to play by the rules. That's right and it was that bit and he said he didn't because it's their choice right I found that the most depressing part of any any kind of justification for taking PDs because in there we have literally why we have no social contract anymore because that is the most nonsensical way of trying to justify what you're doing because in the same okay you could this this is the extreme argument for that this is taking this to the extreme. Oh Larry we're not going to pay you for the part you've just had in a movie because it's now an actor why well because we've decided not to but I had a contract that was the rule yeah but we've decided not to now Larry we're not paying you sorry you made the decision to act and now that's what you do it if you if you enter into a situation you have you this is what the social contract is you are abiding by those rules right we all agreed this morning to come on at 9 30 right if one of you decided to turn up at 10 30.

38:07We that's not what we decided and here in we have why size in the situation it's in because you can justify something by saying oh well you shouldn't have made that choice it's just it was just nonsense that bit and if you're ready to be as I was listening to it and and I could hear a little bit of. In a few years in your voices as well as you are trying to him but that was the bit for me that just I just thought god will we're doing this is an argument i think to be honest we're sort of like different little bits you guys like as I see we're coming from the from the pure standpoint but it's more so asking him personally does he feel sorry for them like should you feel sorry for them because then you can relate that to small moments within other sports. Like say in the game that like I played and I love like somebody could be running through on goal and I just treat them up you know and that essentially is cheating because I've stopped them from being able to get an opportunity do I feel sorry for them probably not at least there's VAR to to sort that out but it's still every point of circle is exactly yeah but it's still about do you feel sorry for the person after you've done something that they didn't deserve.

39:13Yeah but basically you sports people are just heartless bastards and me and Gabby are looking at that is why we turned professionals and there we go we've gone full circle with nailed it. You've got a question for any of us such as Dernadon why you so heartless the sports agents global dot com or maybe Naden why are you president of the referees fan club messages email is there messages on social media at the sports agent. Please subscribe follow lever review and we'll be back on Thursday with the whole city owner. The bears were so good by the way just so so good I love Caleb.