Has Burnham just started his first row with Trump?

0:00This is a global production. What we have seen in the past few months is horrific. There are the fireworks of Ed Milovans announcement which for many people in this country won't really feel that shocking. Why are these people, these Palestinians who've lived and worked on these lands for hundreds and hundreds of years, being driven out of their homes, the forces of law and order in a democratic country like Israel, are standing by and apparently letting it happen. Totally symbolic and yet the response from Israel has been pretty vociferous. There is a lot of fear and the fear will be that it will make it worse as the result of these actions. You do not want Burnham inadvertently to be the one that gets everyone's heckles up in Israel so they start going, oh shit, we need to back Netanyahu. We are here as picking this fight, boy this is a fight that he has picked and I think it is significant. Our argument is not with the people of Israel, with whom the UK has unshakable bonds.

1:04Our argument is with the conduct of its government and I also want to say emphatically to people in Britain and indeed across the world. Holding British Jews responsible for the actions of the Israeli government is ancheatsemitism, complain and simple. That is the foreign secretary Ed Miliband talking in his own words as a proud British Jew, as he simultaneously announces that he is going to sanction Israel, more specifically Israeli goods made in settler communities which are harming the livelihoods of thousands of Palestinians. But is this just setting the stage for a major bust up with Donald Trump whose administration opposes any sanctions against companies operating in the West Bank? Welcome to the news agents. The news agents. It's John.

2:04It's madeless. And remember when Andy Burnham first became the prime minister, one of the very first things he said, one of his first criticisms of his predecessor, Keir Starmer, was on how Starmer had handled his relations with Israel and the whole question of Gaza. And he essentially apologized and said, we didn't go far enough, we didn't call it out, we didn't do enough. I'm mentioning that because I think this sets the stage for what has happened today, which sounds extraordinarily dramatic. And actually, I think, is part of the trajectory of where Burnham wants to be with his party and with this country in terms of calling out Israel's actions. And today we heard from Ed Miliband, this incredibly personal and autobiographical speech, which talked about growing up as a young boy and his sort of love of Israel and his experiences of this pioneering country in the 60s and 70s and comparing it to what it has become

3:10today in his eyes. And essentially, the British government has now concluded that there is ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in areas of the West Bank perpetrated by settler terrorists. And they are acting on that by imposing sanctions on the goods coming out of those settler areas of the West Bank. Yeah. And the settler areas, you know, for those kind of unfamiliar with the geography, I mean, until 1967, it was part of Jordan. In the 6th they war, it became part of Israel. And there was, by international law, it said there should be no building in the West Bank. And the number of settlers has multiplied massively. And by doing that, what you achieve is you make a two-state solution ever harder and ever less viable because you've got Jewish settlements built all over the West Bank. And therefore, for a two-state solution to happen, you would have to tell all those

4:11settlers they've got to go. They've got to leave. You're essentially depopulating the area of anyone but Israelis. And what we have seen in the past few months is horrific in the sense of settlers, either with the support or the acquiescence, and maybe that's kind of a distinction without a difference of the idea of the Israeli defense forces who have stood by and watched these kind of zealots. And it's hard to describe them as anything else where maybe terrorists is another word used to describe them. As these zealots have gone in and said, you know what? This is our land. This is what it belongs to us. Well, until 1967, it didn't. And you can go back thousands of years and say, well, it's part of Judea and Samaria. And therefore, it's part of our historical, biblical land. Everyone has got to claim to that land. But you don't have to give back that far because, and this is critical, this is part of what the Oslo peace accord, back in the 90s, decreed would be the land on which Palestinians

5:13were able to live and thrive and go about their business in peace. And now... And have their own state. And this is part of the two-state solution. When we talk about the two-state solution, what is complicated is that, as you will know, the land that the Palestinians live on is divided, part of it in Gaza, part of it in the West Bank, and a new settlement that is basically under tender now has been since August, would essentially create more properties, more housing, more development on old sort of Bedwin communities in a part of the world where it would divide even the West Bank from itself. In other words, it would run a road right through those two bits and you leave, in essence, the whole part of the Palestinian territory in tiny little pieces, which is being undermined to continue. I think it's worth going back to the comments to hear from Ed Miliband, the foreign secretary who describes what is happening to Palestinians in this part of the country

6:15on a daily basis. At the time of the Oslo Peace Accords in 1993, around 270,000 settlers lived in the occupied Palestinian territories. Today, it is some 770,000. More settlements have been approved under the four years of this Israeli government than in the previous 20 years. Let us spell out what this has meant for Palestinian communities. How's this bulldozed? Roads and public infrastructure destroyed. Family is displaced from their homes. Community by community. Family by family. Person by person. Madam Deputy Speaker, 65 Palestinian communities completely expelled since 2023. A total of over 4,000 Palestinians evicted from their homes due to settler violence and state actions. That is Ed Miliband setting out what has happened. It's largely symbolic.

7:16Look, there is going to be an embargo on goods coming from settler communities in the West Bank. And how many goods that you buy in the shops will say made in the West Bank by settlers on what was Palestinian land. It's going to be quite hard to distinguish what is an embargo on a kind of West Bank product. But the fact that this government has been prepared to take this move. And the fact that Canada and France look like they are going to fall in behind does set the stage for not only a diplomatic fallout with Israel. I mean, that would have been factored in as part of the calculation. But with America as well. And the US ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, who himself has got a long controversial political career on the evangelical right of the Republican Party, has said, you know what? Britain, we could sanction you because of this.

8:18And you can be sure that Andy Burnham and his advisors will have sat down and thought, OK, it's not just about sanctioning West Bank settlers. This is a bigger fight that we're picking. And it seems they've taken the view that they are prepared to fight it. And I just want to think to add to it, we've had Kenny Baidnott making her charge and making her attack on Andy Burnham about, you're just this political chameleon who doesn't want to upset anyone. You don't want to pick any fights. And you just say, yes to the last person who spoke to you. He's picking this fight. He is picking this fight. Boy, this is a fight that he has picked. And I think it is significant. Let's go back and try and just explain what this would mean. Essentially, that the sanctions would focus on goods that were made in the Israeli settlement, which is things like dates, olive oil, wine, grapes, herbs. Although it is worth explaining that UK law already dictates that products made in the settlements are labeled as such.

9:19So you've got this very complicated process where it can already be difficult to distinguish which goods are maybe on the green line. In other words, the boundary that separates Israel from the West Bank, how are you really going to know what you're sanctioning and what you're not? We think like early estimates is probably 2 million pounds worth of goods at most. So as you say, it's totally symbolic. And yet the response from Israel has been pretty, pretty vociferous. The Israeli President has called it gross interference. We can just listen to him here. Later today, we expect to see headlines announcing certain British trade sanctions on Israeli settlements in Judea and Samaria. If this happens and other nations may join, I believe it will prove to be a grave miscalculation and a decision that will fall on the wrong side of history. In the current context, it would be a gross interference in the democratic elections of

10:21a sovereign nation and it will serve no one. It will directly harm, unfortunately, Palestinians, robbing them of business and employment. And ultimately, it will undermine the interest and national security of freedom-loving nations. Sanctions are not a solution. Dialogue is, I say to all foreign governments, stop. Step away from the dead end of sanctions and boycotts and turn towards constructive dialogue and towards cooperation. So when I heard that, I thought I would try and work out what it means in practice. Like what is the actual threat that is going to hit Britain? I did talk to an Israeli official before we came on air from the government. And this person made clear, spelled out to me that they had heard this was on the cards long before the E1 settlement had been put out to tender. In other words, they believed this was Andy Burnham trying to get ahead of what he wanted

11:22to do anyway. In their head, this is about a biolaction that he has to fight in some areas of the urban against the greens who we already know will be quite firmly on the Palestinian side of things here and about a potential early election. And this person spelled out to me that they think it is all to do with domestic politics, all to do with Burnham trying to position himself in the right frame of mind for his own MPs before the party conference. It doesn't really explain why Canada and France have also come on board with this. And when I put that to them, they just said, well, you know, the UK is the leader in this. And I said, what does that mean? And they just said, you'll hear the statement later, you know, we're going to have a big statement later. So I guess we are slightly in a bayance at the moment because there are the fireworks of Ed Miliband's announcement, which really probably I'm guessing for many people in this country

12:27won't really feel that shocking. I mean, the conservatives have said it's performative, you know, Chris Phelps has said, I don't really understand what you're getting at. I think it's performative here. Pretty Patel has raised the specter of anti-Semitism against British Jews, which is I think partly why we've heard such a staunch separation from Ed Miliband between the actions that constitute anti-Semitism and legitimate criticism of a government doing terrible things in Israel. No, I think that Ed Miliband's statement and the way that he framed it, including sanctions against Hezbollah and, you know, actions against Iran, I thought he framed it very, very cleverly, very, very personally, talking as a proud Jew, as you said, Emily. And I think that was all very smart. I understand it in the Jewish community, you know, which has seen the most horrendous year, what with the heat and park killings that stabbing Zingolder's Green, the ambulances set

13:27on fire, whole series of anti-Semitic attacks, you know, people surrounded by armed guards when they go to a Jewish school. You know, there is a lot of fear and the fear will be that it will make it worse as the result of these actions. And that's why I think Ed Miliband was kind of very careful to say, look, you know, don't blame British Jews for what the Israeli government is doing. So we don't know whether that will happen. I think that the, you know, I'm sure maybe the Holbin and St. Pancras, it won't be unhelpful for Labour, so be doing this now. But I think that, you know, for the Israeli government just to say, ah, it's just about domestic British politics. I think Mrs. The Point of the scale of the anger that is felt across the world. Inside the Jewish community and out about what has been happening on the West Bank, where you're thinking, hang on, what is, why are these people, these Palestinians who've lived and worked on these lands for 100 and 100 of years, being driven out of their homes,

14:30and the forces of law and order in a democratic country like Israel are standing by and apparently letting it happen. While we're on the subject of elections, we should just put this in the context of the Israeli elections, the Prime Ministerial elections, which take place in two months time, October the 27th. And just to give you the sort of shape of what is going on there at the moment, there is basically because it's a PR system, there are blocks, you know, it's not just about one minute, it's about the block. The anti-Netanyahu block has been on 60 percent and that is actually currently down on about 57 in terms of seats. The pro-Netanyahu block is about 48. So as things stand, you would say it's 10 seats below the anti-block, there are 15 underclared, which is always the critical thing. It's the people you don't know that are going to sway the election. And I think there is some concern that actually any movement that puts Netanyahu in the position

15:32of being as it were, you know, the wounded guy, the one who everyone is out to get, might actually have a rallying to the flag effect. In other words, you do not want Burnham inadvertently to be the one that gets everyone's heckles up in Israel. So I start going, oh shit, we need to back at Netanyahu, we need to make sure that, you know, we're safe, we need to, this is the only possible problem. And I was reminded just before the Hungarian elections, the EU had been very anti-Orban. And in the months preceding the Hungarian elections where obviously everyone was hoping for Orban to be defeated, they pulled back. They were not trying to make life difficult for Orban, they just wanted to pull back. There is a sense, and this has also said to me this morning, if you look at what the EU is doing, they are not doing this. They're not trying to mess things up in this critical two months just before the election. So yes, I understand totally the reason that you would go and do this.

16:34I understand totally you see the scenes on the television night after night of the horrors of what is going on there. We'll hear a bit more from Minaband on that. But I also think that timing wise, it is quite critical and you don't want to be the beast that has pushed the whole country back into Netanyahu's hands. Yes, because this is where Netanyahu is a very effective propagandist and a very skilled politician. He says, look, we're being under attack from outside, they're trying to tell us what we can do in our country. And we've got to do what we think is right for our own security, etc., etc. You can write the speech for Netanyahu. And that is the danger and that is the risk of what the government is doing now. I think I've been thinking long and hard about, do I not, anyone can give us a shit, whether I agree or disagree, but I feel maybe it would have been smarter to wait until after October the 27th before announcing this, because you don't want to give Netanyahu

17:34a cudgel with which he can beat his opponents and say, come to the flag, we're under attack. Britain is leading that attack. At the same time, I understand the drive that Ed Miliband feels as the foreign secretary right now, not to be just a diplomat on the scene, but to be a doer. And if you are seeing stuff that is horrific, he's saying it's not enough just to call it out, you call it out with actions. And maybe that is where Berner misdifferentiating himself and Miliband's differentiating themselves. We are banned, I have to say, on this podcast referencing a certain Hugh Grant movie where the president stands up to another American president, so I will not go there. But I wonder if there isn't something that is propelling this new Labour government to say it wasn't enough just to kind of shilly, shally around going, oh, isn't all terrible. Actually, if you think something is appalling, you get on and do it.

18:34And I think it's also relevant that in his announcement today, he has cushioned this sanctions with all the other sanctions he's also bringing in against the people that fund his baller, you know, terrorist organisation in Lebanon against other bodies that will stop presumably people saying, you're a Jew, Hater, whatever they say, you're an anti-seemite, you're just doing this because you hate Israel. He's kind of going, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is when we don't like things, we call it out and we do things by sanctioning them. I think there's one other thing, something you said Emily about the source that you had spoken to from the Israeli government saying that Britain will be, you know, just not matter in the future or whatever the phrase was. I mean, frankly, I don't think how, I'm not sure how much Britain does matter and does figure right now anyway in Israel's South Asian. So this is for us not then? Yeah, exactly, exactly. So what, who matters to Israel? Tier one nation is the United States of America.

19:35That's who Israel cares about most. Tier two nations would be those who've signed the Abraham Accords with whom Israel has diplomatic relations in the Middle East. But if Trump turns around now and says, well, as he quite often does, you're not a no longer my friends, I'm going to tariff you or sanction you or take it out on Britain. What, where do you think the public will be? What the public in Britain? Yeah, yeah. Oh, it depends what it is. Two fingers. Yeah. I think two fingers. But if Trump says, you know, come out, comes out with a statement and saying, I fully support Argentina's claim to the Forklift Islands. We didn't even cover that. That is, which is a whole extra bit. Which is a whole other side of it. And it's perfectly possible that he's hinted at that if he came out and said that as a sort of screw you. We should explain it. Israel is very close. It's very supportive of Argentina and very close to the Argentinian president, Millay. And to make that even more complicated, there is this sea line drilling project or oil

20:35project off the coast of the Falklands, which uses a Tel Aviv company, Navitas, who is very involved in sort of, I think, helping us drill for all. So that is a sidebar to this whole thing, but it's quite an interesting one, which is, you know, have you got an extra threat up your sleeve? Have you need one? Look at what Donald Trump has done over Canada and the increased sanctions that came out of nowhere. The trade war that is now going on with Canada. I mean, Donald Trump will do things that are impetuous and unexpected. So I suspect there is a certain amount. I think he's in control to his own interests as well. Yeah, I'm deeply unhelpful to his own interests as well. But I suspect that there is every possibility that there will be some response. The Israeli response, I suspect, won't bother the British government too much because it's not going to be that profound. And Israel has made, and the British government has made clear, it is not seeking sanctions against Israel. It is taking sanctions against products from settler communities in the West Bank. I mean, Israel will say that's all the same thing. You can't differentiate.

21:36There is a huge difference. And it's against the Israeli systems. But, you know, there comes back to the same thing. You look at the defense corporation that exists between this country and Israel. You look at the kind of biotech and some of the, you know, very innovative companies in Israel that Britain is investing in. And, you know, we've got huge kind of shared interests. None of that is being threatened. It's about, this is very narrow what the British government is announcing. But it is symbolic and it does matter. It will infuriate the Israelis and the question is how much does it infuriate Donald Trump and will he respond? Yeah. In a moment, some real news. Harry and Meghan and the message from the King. So, let me start by saying that sources very close to the news agents can reveal that sources close to Harry and Meghan are really pissed off with sources close to the King.

22:40And that is how the return of Harry and Meghan feels like it's being treated with different sources saying what I'm very cross with you. Well, I'm actually very pissed off with you. And so it came that yesterday, it is a mental way of learning your news. And it's, we've all seen that. So she's close to the King. Have revealed a written letter saying that he is no longer going to the... They don't have each other's what's that numbers? I mean, what's going on here? Why don't they just talk to each other? Talk to each other. Or do it behind closed doors and not have sources close to briefing endlessly to the media about what the letter that the King has written to certain people and how Harry and Meghan didn't get do notice of it. I suppose we ought to go back to the beginning and explain what has happened. Yeah, I mean, normally what we would do is we'd play you a little bit of singer voice, a bit of audio at the top to explain the story. But obviously nothing has been said out loud to John's point. So what do we know? Essentially, the King has in the last 24 hours made clear that Harry and Meghan may well be returning to the UK. We understand they're sort of shaking up in the cotswolds near, sort of so-so farmhouse,

23:43that neck of the woods. They are not to be considered royals. Why not? That's the question. Why has he gone out of his way to tell us something that we already know? And there is quite a lot of sort of protocol bump around this, which is to do with informing the left tenants. Left tenants of the county? The left tenants of the county, not to treat Meghan and Harry like royals. In other words, you just have to explain this to me. Don't turn up at the station to greet them. They're not royals. They can go to the taxi like they're at the right house. They can sort out their own stuff. I guess if you have to read between the lines, what the King is saying very clearly is they are not working in any capacity as a royal. Therefore they are not allowed to use their titles. Therefore they are not allowed. And I think this is the crux, if I'm sort of reading between the lines, to profit from that title from any royalness.

24:44Because essentially they are now here, yes doing their charity work, but also presumably trying to earn a bit of dosh, right? This is what we understand. The sort of move is about that partly that Harry wants to be maybe closest, far the partly that he wants to be back in the land of his birth or the rest of it. But also they have to find their money from somewhere. And I think the King is nervous, frankly, that they're going to cash in with a bit of, you know, royal, royal made handset, royal made jam. So he's putting the markers down quickly. I think all of that is absolutely correct. But if you kind of just broaden the lens out from the last 24 hours to look at the last three or four years, and the total dysfunction of the communication between them all, and the levels of misunderstanding, the levels of resentment and bitterness that there is over the way this is all unfolded. You'll remember, you know, go back to when the Queen was alive and she said you can't be half in and half out.

25:45You're either a working royal or you're not. And so what's happened since then is that suddenly Harry and Meghan announced they are coming back to live in Britain. And as you say Emily, I'm sure that is, you know, in large part down to their concerns about the health of the King. But then the King is blindsided by it because apparently he hadn't been told. So briefing takes place that the King wasn't forewarned that Harry and Meghan were about to come back to the UK. Sources close to Harry and Meghan say yes we did. Then we get this kind of, they're not royals, you know, and it goes on and on. But just that why don't you, why don't you pick the phone up to each other and why you're having to brief it out to the media in well and rather surprise that what has been said by the King. You know, it is just kind of paints a picture of people who all loathe each other. And I think that, you know, I don't think this is where the King wanted to be, pretty

26:50swole in wanted to be. I don't agree with that. I think it's slightly more subtle than that. And I think what the King has done is make it very clear that he adores his son in a private personal capacity and welcomes the grandchildren, you know, being in the neighborhood as it were close to high grove. But I think the King is worried about where this leaves his heir, William, which is his real professional priority and Catherine and those children. And I think he is horrified by the idea that there could be a sort of a cinematic clash of the royals, you know, imagine if on George's first day at Eaton God forbid, Meghan sort of walking down Asian high street and everyone's kind of going, Oh, great. We've got all the royals here today. So he's sort of trying to divide out the people that are properly royal, that are still working for the family, that are part of, frankly, the monarchy and the line of succession. And those people who on a professional level, he probably thinks of, you know, dare I say as slightly more grifting. I am delighted if they're coming back.

27:52I have to say, I just think great. I keep on hearing about people that have fed up with Britain and leaving and who was so fed up with this, who fed up with that, no, no, no, no, no, I'm delighted if they come back. I think, you know, a bit more glamour, a bit more interest. I love the fact that they're back and I'm sort of, you know, opening Britain's arms to them. But I guess I don't think it speaks just of dysfunction as in hatred. I think it speaks of a family that is already driven into because he's trying to be a King and a father. There is another aspect to this and you're right to point out, you know, the King's professional interest is to be concerned about the heir to the throne, William, because he's the one who's going to have the responsibility of taking over. I went out and had a dinner with someone who had been the director of, you know, the Buckingham Palace Communications, the head of PR for the Royal Family. And it was a day when, on the same day, it was Father's Day and it was also Trooping the Colour. And it was the King's first year as King and he got knocked off the front pages by William

28:57who put up a lovely photo of the family for Father's Day. And you realise that the Royal Family's key performance indicators are how many column inches they're getting and how many front pages and photos they're getting. And you can see the competition that is now going to take place that Meghan and Harry are back, extremely photogenic, who will demand a huge, command, a huge number of front pages. And can do things that are slightly cooler, like turning up at a podcast studio in London without anyone knowing about it. Not our podcast studio, I hasten to word. I think they're downstairs. Oh, well, I'm trying to call. I'm trying to call. Exactly. But I think, you know, I cannot imagine that Meghan has it in her bones to sit in a cold school gym in Leicester. Meghan, John. Well, she does make jam, obviously. But I don't think she wants to sit through a four hour ballet performance of sort of three of, I could be wrong. But my sense is that there is, there is public duty and there's public duty and it probably doesn't involve just sitting with your cross leg, you know, your, your legs crossed and

30:00being careful. What you do or don't say for six hours of a recital, I think she wants to get out there and do the glamorous bit of public life, you know, fine, absolutely fine. But that's why the king is saying, don't confuse that with public service. They can do their charity stuff. That's not what this is about. Yes, I just think it was, I suppose it was a kind of statement of what is the fact that they are not working roles. They're not part of the rotor of doing royal visits and that you can't be half in and you can't be half out. I suppose it's there, it's a messaged communities that are receiving Harry and Meghan. You don't have to give everything a fresh lick of paint because we all know that the royal family, wherever they go, all they can smell is fresh paint because the buildings have been repainted and everything's been repainted ahead of their arrival. And they're just saying you don't need to get the paintbrush out. They're not working royals. And, you know, it sounds like a petty point, but it's just the way that it's all being communicated by the camps, by those who speak for. I mean, I think that's the corrosive bit.

31:02When this story started to break, I was reading a little bit about that, you know, what are we going to call it? The Winds of Prodichol. I think it was the Sandringham approach call, wasn't it? Where the... Winds of Prodichol was... I know what it was. And it breaks it, exactly. But the Sandringham approach call was where the queen sat down with Harry and Meghan round a table. I'm assuming it was a table. And they talked it all out. And apparently one of the things that was stipulated was the way they're allowed to earn money. And they can't do it in a way that would bring the palace into distribution. I think one of those is like a sort of pyramid selling scheme or something. So you have to be very careful even as non-royals with the way that you are earning money. And so I wonder if this isn't a shot across the boughs saying, you know, we're just... We're just keeping an eye on how this works. You are not royal and we're checking on how you are going to be sort of financing yourselves going forward right under our noses. Well, I suppose look, the easiest way. I mean, I don't think they were going to do a sort of...

32:03You know, unless they've been made up. There's no gate to set up a business, manufacturing, exor, wire, whatever it happens to be. Look, the easiest way that Harry and Meghan could make money and make a lot of money is the corporate circuit, the speaking circuit. You know, I'm sure that the big speaking agency is if Harry and Meghan said we'd like to do some big corporate events at 50,000 or 100,000 pounds a pop, they would have no shortage of people who would be paying that money to hear Harry and Meghan come along. But that is a very limited thing because presumably the people that pay 100,000 are going to want to hear what's going on behind the curtains in the royal family. And you can only do that for so long before... You can't do it. You can't do it because they're not part of it. Exactly. So I think that's what is going on here. It's also a reminder to everyone who would be employing them as royals. Everyone who would be buying their services or buying their, you know, stardust as royals, they are not. They will not have an inside track on what is going on.

33:03You talked a minute, made a slip of the talk about the Windsor Protocol and Rishi Soonak and dealing with Brexit. I do think there are parallels. Bear with me, I know this is going to sound far fetched and ridiculous between Brexit and what happened with Brexit when they went off to California because I think that, you know, Britain would love to have an half in half out arrangement with the European Union will take the best bits but we don't have a lot of money. Are they Norway? Are they Canada? Exactly. And so Harry and Meghan have come back and want to sort of be reintegrated and you've got the royal family, let's say Brussels is the comparison. Brussels saying, oh my God, we're not having you back in again if you're Britain is going to leave three years later because another government comes in and you're pissed off with the European Union. And I think that it is that thing you're either in or you're out and if you're in you're going to kind of sign up to it properly and be part of it in the way that we understand it to work. And I can't see Harry and Meghan wanting to do that.

34:03But you said just before and I think this is really relevant, the palace is now expecting them to be everywhere. That's what I'm reading through this. They are nervous. They are going to pop up all over the shop. Yeah. And there's only, you know, Kate's obviously also recovering from her illness. There's a limited number of appearances probably that's the monarch, the heir to the throne and you know, the princess of Wales can make and you're sort of slightly in competition with this kind of brand new couple that can literally be everywhere, do everything and probably gain the front pages as they do it. Look, the KPI, the key performance indicator is how many front pages do you get? You've got a piece of visible, you've got to make yourself be seen and heard and you know Harry and Meghan will be brilliant at it. I agree with you. Should we get them up? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, get pretty much there. I know, I honestly think that they will be, you know, I agree with you about the, you know, they will add something to British public life that they're being seen and they will do, I'm sure, good works, but it's a very strange situation where it will feel like they're

35:08in competition to the royal family, not part of the royal family. It's like having Edward the eighth, hanging around. Exactly. Right? We'll be back. So one thing that might make that St. Pankress, Hoban and St. Pankress, by election a little bit easier for Andy Burnham is that Zach Polanski is facing a challenge not just from other parties, but from within the Green Party itself. Yeah, a guy called Hamza Chowdry, a Green Party Councillor is going to run against him and has released a statement full of criticism of parachuted politicians who disappear when the votes are counted. So, you're hoping in. It will be quite a few times. It will be quite a few times. You're hoping in. It will be quite a few times.

36:09It will be quite a few times. Where's he live? I don't know. Somewhere he's on a houseboat in East London, I think. Yes, Hany, it's about like two yards away. Oh, good 20 minutes. Yeah, half an hour. 40 minutes, I'd say. Not sure that's about it. But it wouldn't be a humiliation if the Green Party chose Mr. Chowdry over their party leader, Zach Polanski. I can't believe it's going to happen, but I think it's a real issue of, you know, there are those part of people in the Green Party. One who think that Zach Polanski has not done a great job of late and two think that Zach Polanski is frankly too white, too middle class and we need people who more represent the constituency because there is a big minority population in hope and in some pancreas. We don't need another MP who arrives during election campaign, puts out a few leaflets, makes a few promises and disappears once the votes are counted. We need an MP who's present, accessible and visibly part the community all year round. So yeah, the first bit of competition, Zach Polanski is facing this by election is from his own party.

37:10Who would have thanked it? Anyway, Emily and I are off to see a bloke who's selling a couple of Renoir paintings. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye. Bye. This has been a global production.