Can Zack Polanski win Keir Starmer's old seat?

0:00This is a global production. I do think that if Zach Polansky had refused to stand without an extraordinarily good reason which right now escapes me, then that would have kind of been the end of him. And I also think that if he stands and loses, then it is probably the end of him as the green party leader. There are enormous swings happen in biodexions. It just feels that sometimes you get a sense that there is a party with enormous momentum at minutes, unstoppable and they are going to win a biodexion. Given the summer that the green party has had, it does not feel like they have that momentum. He will argue and say, I think, send a message to this government which doesn't much like London and doesn't much care for London. And if he were to win or come really close, then that would change the whole calculus of the Burnham government. This is a real test actually for whether Zach Polansky survives the next bit of this political cycle. So I think either way, this is high stakes.

1:00Tomorrow you can really send a message. We are rejecting the politics of hate and division and instead we are embracing a politics of home with a plan to change people's lives for the better. That was from a video posted last night by Zach Polansky, who today has announced that he hopes to be the candidate to fight Kierstarmers old seat in North London. So has Andy Burnham managed to solidly win back disillusioned progressives and see off the greens? Or will this define the electoral landscape now of the left? Welcome to the news agents. The news agents. It's television's John Soaple. How we love it. We can explain that in a moment. Yes, we are. John is moonlighting on a Sunday morning.

2:01What a terrible time to moonlighting. Well, an absolute quizzling. No, it's good to have the support of your colleagues. That's fine. You're going to need a very good producer on Sunday to not miss the make mistakes. I've not put it that way. It's a long time. Right, it's malice. And it's Lewis. I'm not saying another word now. As John was talking about initially and correctly, is that Polansky? Is has confirmed this morning that he will stand in key Starmers now old seat of Hoban and St. Pancras. He had long. This was basically the big question when Starmer announced on Monday, pretty unhelpfully for Andy Burnham, setting up the first by election of Burnham's tenure in what could be pretty fertile territory for the green party. The instant speculation was whether Polansky would stand or not. He had previously said that he wanted to stand in a London constituency. And that if one became vacant, then he would contest it. Of course, it's not necessarily the most comfortable timing, even though it is comfortable terrain, because since the green high watermark that Zenith earlier in the year,

3:01Andy Burnham seems to become prime minister has been taking green votes. And now there are about eight or nine percent also. And on paper, key Starmers all constituency of Hoban and St. Pancras is and should be a pretty safe labor seat. Luc Trillapolster has given us his assessment of the constituency. Just listen to this. This was already going to be a fascinating by election because of what it would have told us about the electoral battle for the left of British politics. Those dissolution progressives who had left the Labour Party under key as Starmer and who had started voting green had Andy Burnham really attracted them back, which meant that seats like Hoban and St. Pancras traditionally safe labor seats were now firmly back in the Labour column. Had the green party leader Zach Polansky's missteps permanently eroded the party's momentum and mojo, it was going to be a marquee race. But Zach Polansky himself saying he's standing in the contest really does change everything.

4:05And if you want proof of that, you just have to look at some of the other contests this year. The maker for your by-election on every partisan or demographic measure that should have been a reform game and your Andy Burnham upended the contest. If we look at Clackton, obviously that was unusual in that it wasn't contested by the main parties. But the fact that 22,000 people turned out to vote for Nigel Farage in the middle of summer and actually 10,000 people turned out the other way, almost 10,000 to vote for Count Bindface, shows you again the power of having a particular candidate in a local by-election. And now it looks like Hobernand St. Pancras is going to join that list. Zach Polansky is clearly going to electrify the race. I suspect turnout as we've seen in these other high profile contests is going to be higher than usual for a by-election. And whilst I might have said prior to Zach Polansky getting in that Labour were the favourites because of that green dip and Labour rise,

5:13I know think this is a by-election where there really is everything to play for. I do love the idea of a marquee race. It makes it sound far more exciting than North London's by-election. It sounds like the 650th weather be. It sounds really good, unmissable. I was thinking about this when we first heard that Starma was resigning on Tuesday on Andy Burnham's big day. And it seemed to me then that Zach Polansky didn't really have a choice because having made it very obvious and having put already on record that he wanted to stand in a London seat, yes he would have liked Hackney Moore, he would have liked Home turf Hackney even more. But it's not that far away, frankly, from Hackney to Hobern to say, oh I'm afraid that's just not my neck of the woods. I do think that if Zach Polansky had refused to stand without an extraordinarily good reason which right now escapes me, then that would have kind of been the end of him. And I also think that if he stands and loses,

6:13then it is probably the end of him as the green party leader because this is a seat that the Greens should be taking, not easily, easily but fairly comfortably on a good night. And so I think that this is a real test actually for whether Zach Polansky survives the next bit of this political cycle. Yeah and he's given a statement to the Camden New Journal this morning which is the local, your local paper, my local newspaper, saying you'll have a column in there next for your media activities at the moment. It's not television, there is no. I think there's a little bit of touchiness that we need to work out after this recording. Much after. But he's given this statement to the local paper saying I've always lived for a long time in this area, I know it well, it's my natural home. So he's trying to play up his credentials for this particular constituency. At the last election, I mean, Starmer won it easily getting nearly 50% of the vote. But there was an independent called Andrew Feinstein who stood, who was going for the disaffected left vote, who came second,

7:18and the Greens came third and their combined vote was within sort of 7,000 of what here Starmer got. So it's not a lot of... And he was... His share of the vote was reduced quite substantially from his name. Exactly, exactly. So it's, you know, look, there are enormous swings happen in bi-elections. It just feels that sometimes you get a sense that there is a party with enormous momentum and it's unstoppable and they are going to win a bi-election. At the moment, you'd have to say that given the summer that the Green Party has had, it does not feel that they have that momentum. And yes, Zach Polanski's name is on the ticket and I think that would have... Like, isn't it yet? Well, I mean, that's... That's all the thing, yeah. Well, okay, we'll come to that. But let's just say, let's just assume for a moment it is. And I'm sure that will attract a certain number of, you know, voters in the constituency to go towards him. But I think it could have an opposite effect as well, that there will be people who will be repelled by him as well. I think this is actually in a year of high stakes bi-elections and bi-elections which have genuinely altered the political weather, the physical climate.

8:25I think this is yet another. And the stakes are really high. I think both for Burnham and for Polanski. As you say, I think if Polanski stands in this and loses, particularly if he loses badly, I think that's going to be pretty lethal for his authority within the Green Party. I think that there will be people who... The Green Party are always a pretty fractious bunch and I think that they will say that if he stands and loses here, or at least doesn't come close, that this experiment has failed. Because he does have enemies within the Green Party. He always represented a part of the Green Party on the kind of economically populist left, which was a sort of Corbinite left, if you like, which was part of the Green Party, but historically the kind of smaller wing. So I think that will be very dangerous for him. But for Burnham too, I mean, let's... I mean, I think if Polanski is smart, I would not be surprised at all. I would not be surprised at all that he doesn't just run on environmental issues, on rent, on Gaza, which will be a big, big issue in this constituency. But it also, I wouldn't be surprised, run potentially as Mr. London.

9:26Burnham is Mr. Manchester. He's come in on the Northern Ticket, politics anchored and centred around the red wall. What did he say? He said, I would apply the Makerfield test to everything that I do. I think Polanski will say, well, he's going to apply the Hobernand St. Pancras test. He's going to apply the London test, and he has pedigree as a London politician. He will argue and say, I think, send a message to this government, which doesn't much like London, and doesn't much care for London. And if he were to win or come really close, then that would change the whole calculus of the Burnham government. First of all, it would stem his momentum significantly. And you would have MPs of whom there are scores and scores in the PLP in Greater London, in Bristol, in Birmingham, in other places in the South of England and the Midlands who say, actually, we've over corrected here. And our seats are in danger, and that it will change, change potentially just the trajectory of the politics of the Burnham government. So I think either way, this is high stakes. I have to say, I can't see him going on a anti-Manchester ticket, particularly.

10:31I can see that reform would choose that. I can see that the Conservatives would choose that. You know, have you forgotten the greatest city on Earth, which is kind of where they want to position Burnham, and the fact that he keeps popping back up North and isn't really looking at London with the prestige that they think it deserves. But what we know from Zack Polanski so far is that he wants to sort of fight not just this by election, but his sort of party's campaign on a rip off Britain sort of is, or, you know, why is, why are we in hawk to big business? Why are we in hawk to big corporates and we shouldn't be paying this much? I think all that felt easier under Stammer. And if you go back to the local elections, which obviously feels like a lifetime away because they were fought under Stammer, and we know that that's massively changed the Labour Party, but they were still won quite comfortably then by Labour in that constituency.

11:36But what happened during the locals was that the Greens teamed up with a local alliance. I think it was called the Camden Alliance, the Camden's People Alliance, who were again disaffected Labour, disaffected Left, and they joined the Greens. So there is a sense that we don't quite know the true spirit of where that support for the Greens could come from. If people are still feeling angry with Labour in the same way they were back in May, but I don't know that they are as much. I think there are more people who are saying, well, let's just see where this is going because Burnham is not Stammer, and he doesn't have the baggage of actually, frankly, quite so much establishment. And then, during the local elections, I went to a Hustings one night. And there were all the parties candidates there. And there was a sense, a lot of the questions to the Green Party were quite hostile, saying, shouldn't you be more worried about the local environment and bin collection and all those sort of issues, and less about Gaza?

12:39And obviously there are those people in the hall who were saying, well, no, Gaza is terribly important, and it's very vital that we campaign on this as well. And so that's the sense that the Green Party, you know, you sense that with Zack Polanski, that he has tacked back towards core green issues, particularly after the hot summer and drought and all the rest of it and global warming, to be talking about those green issues, which were traditionally the bread and butter, and which left, but I think the Gaza stuff left some people feeling quite uncomfortable in the Green Party. But also gave him momentum for the first six months of his friendship. Exactly. And I just think that there was a sort of clearly, enormous momentum shift after the Gordon and Denton by election, which kind of I think was a high watermark. And then it's felt that the waters have receded quite quickly since then, as more and more questions have gone towards that. You've also surrounded Zack Polanski's house, for example. Exactly. Which, you know, these were uncomfortable questions. Just as Nigel Farage has faced uncomfortable questions, if you aspire to political leadership in this country,

13:45don't be surprised if tough questions come your way about the way you've organized your finances and where you've declared things and where you voted, and whether you were right to do so. I think there's also questions about, and this is a sort of early test again in terms of how Burnham handles his opponents. And how they treat, given Polanski's the candidate, then how they treat Polanski during this campaign, how negative, how rough are they with him? So, particularly some of these allegations and stories which swirled around up to the local elections, does the Kumbaya routine of Andy Burnham, where he has generally been less visceral in his political attacks than the Starma operation was on reform or the Greens. Does he change that? Does the Labour Party corporately change that? Is there a risk if you do that, highlighting his progressive positions on things? That actually in his pretty progressive constituency, you actually push people into the Green column. Look, I think the Labour Party will clearly be the favourites. It's constituency that has basically been Labour forever. They've got superb data on it. Council elections were bad, but they weren't catastrophic.

14:48But again, Burnham will desperately want to win this, and the Labour Party will desperately want to win this because he will be looking to it as an example of what has Burnham been good at in these early months, for one of the reasons that he's gained in the polls is because he has united more of the left blog. He has taken votes away again from the Greens. And if he can defeat Polanski here, and if I'm right, which I think I am, that that will basically probably hobble, Polanski permanently, then that will be an enormous advantage going into any general election whenever it comes because Polanski for all of his problems has been easily the most effective campaigner and leader that the Green Party has ever had. We correct you a second ago, and we said that, you know, Polanski is on the ticket because in the way that the Green Party work, he technically isn't. He has to submit his name. The Green Party itself then had this very democratic system where they decide whether they want their own leader to stand for the seat that they're trying to win. My guess is they will probably agree that, you know, it is worth a shot. If you can't, if you can't, it's a nice example. He might as well pack up and go.

15:49Exactly. But the person that we think he'll be standing against in that seat is the leader of Camden Council for Labour, which is Sagar Abdi Wally. And she is, or has been pretty close to Stammer. She was previously chairman, chairwoman, chair of the constituency Labour Party. She came to the UK as a child refugee from Somalia. This was back in the early 90s. And when it appeared that she would be the front runner, zero you said, like literally the jack in the box of reform pops up and says, the front runner being foisted on the people of Hoban by Labour to replace the former Prime Minister in our parliament was born in Somalia. Do you understand what's happening? That was his tweet. Do you understand what's happening? We used to call that sort of dog whistle. But I honestly think sort of like you could take that to the nearest retirement home. They'd all hear that pretty done loudly and easily.

16:55I wonder whether him getting involved in that way. I mean, obviously it will do wonders for reform. Oh, Somalians coming over here standing in a parliament. Getting elected. I mean, foisted is another wonderful word, isn't it? I think the Labour Party just decides to put on the ballot the person that they think of as the front runner. And they need to get elected. They need to get elected. I'm not sure that's foisted. But I don't know what that will do. But maybe nothing. But will it actually sort of, you know, will it draw people who might have been greens, right? Who might have been Camden people's alliance who might have been on the disaffected left to kind of go actually know we do. We do want to support a party that seems to be putting a former child refugees, Somalian born woman who's made it this far on the ballot in the seat ourselves, right? I the zealous of tweet sort of just kind of leaves you scratching your head. Do you understand what's happening? Yeah, someone who's come to this country has British citizenship has committed themselves to public life, Hispanic apartment.

17:59And what's your point? I you know, oh, it's Somalia. Is that what are we say Somalia? Oh, okay. I understand he's looking for a slippery slope. You know, and the whole of London, everyone by Somalia. It's as if it's Ilan Omar. It's the squad. Why don't you go back to where you came from, which is more or less what Donald Trump said to her. And I think it's, you know, look, she's she's a British citizen. She's committed herself to public life. You might disagree with our politics. And a lot of people do. Well, he's probably done her enormous favor. I think I would imagine now that the Labour Party what would have been I think a real scrap to get this safe seat. I would imagine that he's done her, her prospects know, no harm whatsoever with the local Labour Party. And look, you know, you know, we talked about the Make a Feel by election where it was a fight between Labour and reform. It's not going to be a fight between Labour and reform in hope and in St. Pancras. Reform came, I think, six or seventh in the biolect in the general election. It's not natural reform territory.

19:00Not natural reform. You take your best, I hope you know, say, so many are there many reform voters in chalk farm, not so many. No, no, I mean, of course, there is still a possibility. I mean, this would be a ridiculous outcome. But as you say, Emily, the Green Party is highly democratic. According to reports, or some reporting from Noah Hoffman, the spectator, there is some unhappiness within local green circles about the idea of plan ski being parachuted in all that wouldn't be much of a parachute because he doesn't live very far away. It's not a bus ride. I think it's more the bus ride. I think it's number 16. You don't have a pair of troopers to take you in. No, no, no. She had some reporting from also some WhatsApp messages from the local sort of group, which said among other things that this seat has a 50% BAME population. It should be represented by someone who understands these communities. And someone else said it would be nice for wants to have a global majority representative and also a true anti-sianist. Wait, so he's too white and Jewish? Is that what we're hearing now? Or insufficiently. So he could choose between somebody who's too Somali or somebody who's too white.

20:03So global majority. Sorry, it's a phrase I'm is new to me. It's usually basically means people from the global south. When you say picking the head of the UN, you're like, oh, well, we shouldn't just look at Italy. We should look at the whole world. But I think when you're talking about Camden and Hobern and St. Michael's, I think it's probably OK. Yes, I mean, someone said that it's terrible the way selections in our party are often run. It's often a passive process rather than proactive. We know women and people of color need encouragement and support. But this is like, maybe the green party will actually vote for the Labour candidate then. Right. That's something the green party would have. Everyone's always on the same team. But I mean, it just, this is the thing with the greens. I mean, they are, I mean, it sounds ridiculous. Because all people in political parties are very political right, but they are the most hyper-political and they have taken in a tranche of people who were part of the Corbinite wing of the Labour party. And it's a fracture sponge sometimes. And I think that she wants stories of Polanski's leadership is that he has struggled in this party, which is centrally extremely weak.

21:04I mean, let's remember at one point they didn't even have speakers, didn't have leaders. They had principal speakers at one point they had co-leaders because they didn't want to sort of mirror the sort of traditional hierarchical structures of society and so on. And so they eventually moved to leaders, but it's a very weak central position and it isn't easy to execute a leader's will in that situation. Emily, you said something at the top, which I thought was really interesting, which was he had to run. I mean, he couldn't, if he had if he had decided not to, then that would have been seen as cowardice or a kind of a admission that his leadership has got nowhere in the party. And I think that's just such a, I think a lot of people won't have thought of it in those particular terms. They've just thought, oh, I'm vicious man. He wants to get a London seat. Often in politics, you think you have a choice. You don't really, you know, we were talking about this in terms of the US presidential candidates for the Democrats. A lot of people will think, oh, all censors too young, they won't stand this time. If you don't stand this time, you'll probably talk about an eight year wait, who's got an eight year wait in their life.

22:06And so actually, I think it is incumbent upon him to run. I think he's realized that he has no choice. And I think it's going to be quite dirty actually because I actually disagree. I think it would have been why is it not to run. I think he could have made an excuse. I think he could have sidesteped it. He could have used the green parties that I, you know, sufferages. I'm not going to impose myself. I think we should have a woman of color. We should have this that the other way. And he may have found himself in a place where he doesn't. Yeah, indeed. Just because I think it's really this is such a bad moment for him. I mean, just at the point when you've got burn who has come in this high water, it's really risky. Now, it's a gamble and who knows it might pay off and fair play to him if it does. But as I say, I think the risk for him. And maybe he's deciding the way. Even to those leaders, like just sit around wasting. Well, there could be a general election in 12 months. There could be, you know, there's plenty of things he can be getting on with. If he was, he is, I think risking his leadership. Now he might not decide that he's not too bothered about that. And maybe that will be the end for him anyway. But it's a risky position. I think he could have avoided, albeit would have taken some other good sides to me.

23:06Yeah, but look, having done this, he has to be the candidate. I mean, if the green party say no, sorry, Zach, don't fancy you as the candidate. I mean, he really is really screwed. And that's that, isn't it? So which of him on our respective Sunday shows this weekend, which of us will be interviewing him, John? Do you reckon? I'm not prepared to, I'm not prepared to discuss this. I can tell you this, I think, Zach Plansky is not coming with me to the Venice Film Festival. Oh, and what are you doing at the Venice Film Festival? I'm a festival agent's moment ever. Ridiculous. Ridiculous. Who are you? So there's a possibility, a possibility that Lewis and I will be fighting over Zach Plansky. Yeah. Who are you with this weekend? George Cleening. We'll be back after the break.

24:18That is the campaign video for the AFT, which just this weekend is projected to win an election. And I'm sure that the future will be a great success. I'm sure that the future will be a great success. So if you're planning to do a fair election in Saxony and Holt, which is a central German state, some two million people now, as you might know already, there has been an arrangement between many of the center parties in Germany, not to let the AFD through a kind of firewall to stop a far right. dream right party which some believe have got descendant connections to the national socialists back into power.

25:19You can understand why the Germans might be attached to that part. A little bit sensitive aren't they? Yeah. But in a specific election which is essentially a local election there is not a lot they can do if AFD come through. So it would be the first state to elect an AFD, the potential that it's ruled by the AFD. Well I know the first far right government of a German land or significant German anti-season second world war. And the polling at the moment the AFD has been around 40% or higher in the state and this guy Ulrich Seagman who we heard from is telegenic loads of TikTok supporters using social media really well probably getting amplified massively on X by Elon Musk because Elon Musk is doing everything he can to propel the AFD forward. And so you know this will be a real nightmare for Chancellor Mers if they win.

26:23Yeah it's a really interesting part of the country this one because it actually fell on the the iron curtain side of the old East Germany and it's sometimes called the heartland of German history. This is where Martin Luther actually nailed his thesis to the door of the Wittenberg Church. And I think it's really interesting in terms of what it tells you about a former communist part of the world which I don't think people are voting for the far right because they think it is the opposite to the communism they grew up with. I wonder if there is a sense that in these old X communist places which are you know there's heavy mining there's heavy industry there's chemical plants all the rest of it. People actually still have this sense of a yearn for authoritarianism at some point you know there's something about the end of the iron curtain which didn't leave you know the older people kind of go yay we're free let's jump over the wall it left people kind of saying what happens to me now who's sorting this out now where are the rules now.

27:28And I think you start to see particularly in Germany this is where the AFD strongholds are actually finding their feet you know not just industrial heartlands but places where people kind of knew the rules of communism and didn't totally object to that. So I think we should just give a little bit of a sketch of who the AFD are because they've been on the rise for a long time now but they're not just a kind of typical populist right party which now populate policies and democracies across Europe you know we are talking about a pretty extreme force not just within German politics but I think objectively speaking indeed some of their figures and some of their branches have even been designated by the German police and the German interior ministry as terrorist organisations you know we're talking about a quite extreme force in places here some of the most striking proposals re-immigration as government policy compulsory term programs for migrants to leave ending all school inclusion children with disabilities would generally be removed from mainstream classrooms

28:31educated separately legal experts and weakening of compulsory school attendance parents will be allowed to homeschool children limiting access to academic education for about a quarter of all German children nationalism embedded in school life it wants German flags displayed national anthem sung regularly banning rainbow flags replacing it's sort of the ZAU sif we know that's right I think that's not about where totally joking you know that is memorial to German people say pulled it's a school it's kind of like over mentioned to me memorial to German soldiers killed in every war including Nazis and then some of the more eccentric stuff you know targeting Bauhaus buildings from the Vimar Republic you know you've got all of these weird oh and they're very pro-Russian as well you know they're very much Ukraine pro-China pro-Ran right which is Nigel Farge said that the sort of delimiting the defining difference between him and AFD is that he doesn't you know he told all the rest of the remigration's fine but he doesn't necessarily like people who love them exactly you know they are basically um set against and set themselves against and this is why I think it is so important

29:36the entire post-war consensus certainly of West German politics and you know a really good way of sort of understanding them is one of the things that's one of their pro their party program says that the problem with contemporary Germany is they're afflicted by self-hatred and they ask why any Turk or Syrian would want to become a self-loathing contrite rainbow German and this is I think what's a bit different as well even from say a reform party here or certain other types of right-wing populism is that what they constantly talk about is this idea of the patriotic state either state shouldn't be as is the liberal vision kind of neutral on many of these sort of cultural matters but they should actively construct and enforce a national identity and that is you know you can have an argument about that and you can argue that liberalism is too neutral and some of these matters about kind of nationhood and statehood and so on but obviously in Germany of all countries which for obvious reasons has an historical antipathy the whole way that the

30:41West German state and then the later unified German state was constructed was to prevent this sort of politics from re-emerging so you can understand why for many Germans this would be a bit of a worry yeah and you know the the efforts that have been made since the early war came down and there was the reunification of Germany enormous amounts of money have been spent in East Germany to try and kind of rebalance the country given the relative prosperity of the West and the poverty of the East under you know communist rule but it doesn't seem that that money and all the efforts at reintegration of Eastern West have done that well because the AFD are undoubtedly far more popular in the East than they are in the West and this is a real problem for a united country where you have got politics as you've just described Lewis that will tear the country apart

31:44if AFD suddenly have power and I think well I think we should also say just in terms of the electoral arithmetic here the question in this lander and this is why what people worry about being a potent for the for the future of national German politics the question here isn't whether the AFD are going to come first they're easily going to come for yes that they're polling in every poll more than 40 percent the question is is whether with a sort of complexity of the German electoral system that some of the smaller parties actually get seats you've got a 5% threshold which means you've got to get 5% of the vote to get any seats now there is a question in particular about whether the green party delinco which is a kind of left wing party whether they meet that threshold if they do meet that threshold then the most likely outcome is that every other party cobbles together a coalition a firewall or be it what very slender one to keep the AFD out but if it's possible that doesn't happen and then if the AFD just gets say 43 45 47% of the vote because of the complexity of the electoral system they end up with an absolute majority which wouldn't

32:45have happened before and it would mean that the firewall would break down and it basically ev this is obviously just one region of Germany but if you look at the polls national opinion polls at the moment with in terms of national German elections you know the FD of polling well the CDU which is the center right party the party of Angela Merkel now the chancellor for you but not doing well the old social democrats not doing well either people worry that this is basically the direction of German politics and that firewall just becomes harder and harder and harder to sustain because the AFD just do better and better and better and you have to end up with these crazy kind of coalitions evolving conservatives the equivalent of the Labour Party greens liberals you name it just to keep them out and there's a general election in 2027 do you know what orixi men the the frontman does do you know what his job is he presents a Sunday morning TV show he does he's right he's got a podcast he is a salesman okay no big shot he's actually a perfume seller he has a fragrance company called Berlin Dufte his name literally means German speakers

33:50Berlin smells good and he is racked up a lot a lot a lot on TikTok so this is why I think he presents the threat because we are sort of getting the sense of how you do well in 2026 in politics and it is a vibes thing it is a social media thing it is a viral content thing and even just looking at the video which you know if you've been watching with us you'll see it is a kind of like I'm jumping onto this scene with all the energy I can muster and I've got something to sell you right and I think that is why you know I almost felt watching that he's he's reaching out above the heads of just the good Germans of Saxony and he's trying to talk to Elon Musk and we know Elon Musk it's quite a fan of what goes on with the AFD in Germany if you want a bit of money if you want to get a few of the American TikTokers on side if you want to just reach out to your your buddies and your bros there and make sure that there's enough money to kind of keep funding you that's how they're going to do incredibly well not just now but in the general elections next year we'll be back

34:54in a moment with someone who's not very happy about the bio tapestry coming to London a tapestry that shows a new leader emerging from a northern territory traveling to the south of England in search of the crown something clearly that couldn't happen today the northern conquest well that was anti-burnum making light and kind of humorous reference to the arrival of the bio tapestry at the British Museum there aren't many biogags are there you wouldn't have seen that coming no but we have had an intervention which I saw this morning and it did make me sit up and take note and it came from Archbrexeter and man

36:00who challenged for conservative leadership when John Major was the prime minister it comes from John Redwood and John Redwood said as we consider the buyer embroidery we should remember the many killed by this French invasion English men and women had their land stolen many were put into surfed them by a new Norman governing class friend of the surfs John Redwood as he's often called I mean this is a fantastic isn't it it is absolutely fantastic and I think it does speak to something more than just kind of lunacy which is it's batshit well it is batshit but I also think I'm very sad about the no this is very you're thinking a lot about every every every every yeah I just think about it you think of the I think about all the I think yeah well I think about Harold Hadrader for a start I mean you know not good way to go wealthy and either he would be the care I guess in in that analogy wouldn't he in Andy Burnham's analogy yeah I mean it looked

37:05bad for the two Harold Harold but what said and Harold had rather I do I think what's happening and if you listen to a lot of the Bayer commentary this morning it there is this sort of edge to it which is like yes it's a tapestry but it's also the end of Brexit you know it's quite unsuttle some of the sort of soft power chat around it like aren't we close isn't Macron having a lovely time doesn't he adore the king isn't this the end of Brexit can we get rid of the red lines and I wonder whether that has just pushed little John Redwood out of his box a bit to kind of go please remember Brexit the French are our enemies do not ever forget the French are our enemies they are an invading marauding force they are our enemies I think it's simple of that I mean I think that you know John Redwood is just saying after a thousand years it's just absolutely just nobody stop the boat I mean I think I'm with him on that you have a moment silence were they small boats shall we have well big big and small I'd imagine there are a lot of those leds should we have a moment of silence to remember the fallen Englishman and women from the Normans yeah oh man we'll be back tomorrow

38:12bye for now bye never forget this has been a global production