Harvard Professor: They're Lying To You About Running, Breathing & Sitting!

0:00This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online makes sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up require compatibility and availability varies 18 plus. Propel Fitness Water With Gatorade Electrolites, Zero Sugar, and Vitamins, propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolites When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Find less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast.

1:04That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. A Harvard professor says everything you know about running, breathing, and sitting is probably wrong. And when I first heard Daniel Lieberman make this claim, I thought, come on, how wrong could we really be about something as basic as moving our bodies? Turns out pretty spectacularly wrong. See, here's what got me curious about all this. A Harvard professor says everything you know about running, breathing, and sitting is probably wrong. And when I first heard Daniel Lieberman make this claim, I thought, come on, how rank would we really be about something as basic as moving bodies? Turns out pretty spectacularly wrong. See, here's what got me curious about all this. A Harvard professor says everything you know about running, breathing, and sitting is probably wrong. And when I first heard Daniel Lieberman make this claim, I thought, come on, how wrong about something as basic as moving our bodies. Turns out, pretty spectacularly raw. See, here's what got me curious about all this. Lieberman's been studying human evolution for decades and he keeps finding these moments where, what we think we know about fitness completely contradicts how our bodies actually evolved to work. Like, we're walking around

2:04with these incredibly sophisticated movement systems that took millions of years to perfect and we're basically using them backwards. So, I wanted to dig into this with him. What does it actually mean that we're doing running wrong? Lieberman's been studying human evolution for decades and he keeps finding these moments where, what we think we know about fitness completely contradicts how our bodies actually evolved to work. Like, we're walking around with these incredibly sophisticated movement systems that took millions of years to perfect and we're basically using them backwards. So, I wanted to dig into this with him. What does it actually mean that we're doing running wrong? Lieberman's been studying human evolution for decades and he keeps finding these moments where, what we think we know about fitness completely contradicts how our bodies actually evolved to work. Like, we're walking around with these incredibly sophisticated movement systems that took millions of years to perfect and we're basically using them backwards. So, I wanted to dig into this with him. What does it actually mean that we're doing running wrong? How could something as automatic as breathing be messed up? And if sitting is supposedly killing us, why are we so naturally good at it? The conversation that followed completely changed how I think about my own body. Because it turns out most of our fitness problems

3:06aren't because our bodies are weak or broken. They're because we've forgotten how to let our bodies do what they're already designed to do incredibly well. And here's the thing that really hooked me. How could something as automatic as breathing be messed up? And if sitting is supposedly killing us, why are we so naturally good at it? The conversation that followed completely changed how I think about my own body. Because it turns out most of our fitness problems aren't because our bodies are weak or broken. They're because we've forgotten how to let our bodies do what they're already designed to do incredibly well. And here's the thing that really hooked me. Lieverman's research suggests that somewhere along the way we started treating our bodies like machines that needed to be fixed instead of evolved systems that know exactly what they're doing. The question is, how do we get back to trusting what millions of years of evolution already figured out for us? So let's start with running, because this is where Lieverman's findings get really interesting. Lieverman's research suggests that somewhere along the way we started treating our bodies like machines that needed to be fixed instead of evolved systems that know exactly what they're doing. The question is, how do we get back to trusting what millions of years of evolution already figured out for us? So let's start with running, because this is where Lieverman's findings get really interesting.

4:06When I asked him about the biggest misconceptions people have about running, his answer surprised me. The first thing he pointed out is that we've completely misunderstood what humans are actually good at when it comes to running. Most people think we're slow clunky runners compared to other animals, but here's what's wild. Under the right conditions, humans can actually outrun horses and marathons. We've literally done this. When I asked him about the biggest misconceptions people have about running, his answer surprised me. The first thing he pointed out is that we've completely misunderstood what humans are actually good at when it comes to running. Most people think we're slow clunky runners compared to other animals, but here's what's wild. Under the right conditions, humans can actually outrun horses and marathons. We've literally done this. There are documented cases where human runners have beaten horses in long distance races. So how is that even possible? Well, it comes down to our cooling system. Horses, like most mammals, cool down by panting. But humans were basically walking air conditioners. We can sweat from almost every part of our bodies, which means we can regulate our temperature while running in a way that most other animals just can't match over long distances. But there are documented cases where human runners

5:09have beaten horses in long distance races. So how is that even possible? Well, it comes down to our cooling system. Horses, like most mammals, cool down by panting. But humans were basically walking air conditioners. We can sweat from almost every part of our bodies, which means we can regulate our temperature while running in a way that most other animals just can't match over long distances. But here's where it gets even more interesting. Lieberman's research shows that when we run barefoot, we naturally land on our forefoot. It's automatic. But when we wear modern running shoes, we heal strike instead. And that heal strike creates impact forces that are three times our body weight with every single step. Now, when I heard this, I had to ask the obvious question, why would our bodies naturally choose a running style that creates less impact? Here's where it gets even more interesting. Lieberman's research shows that when we run barefoot, we naturally land on our forefoot. It's automatic. But when we wear modern running shoes, we heal strike instead. And that heal strike creates impact forces that are three times our body weight with every single step. Now, when I heard this, I had to ask the obvious question. Why would our bodies naturally choose a running style that creates less impact?

6:10And Lieberman explained that this isn't just about comfort. It's about efficiency. Our feet have 26 bones, 33 joints, and over 100 muscles, tendons, and ligaments. He calls the human foot a masterpiece of engineering. But when we heal strike and cushion shoes, we're basically bypassing most of that sophisticated shock absorption system. So I pushed him on this. What about all the people who say barefoot running is dangerous? What about injury? And Lieberman explained that this isn't just about comfort. It's about efficiency. Our feet have 26 bones, 33 joints, and over 100 muscles, tendons, and ligaments. He calls the human foot a masterpiece of engineering. But when we heal strike and cushion shoes, we're basically bypassing most of that sophisticated shock absorption system. So I pushed him on this. What about all the people who say barefoot running is dangerous? What about injury? And this is where his perspective gets really nuanced. He's not saying everyone should throw away their shoes tomorrow. But he is saying that maybe we should question why we need so much artificial support for something our bodies evolved to do naturally. The research from his lab is pretty compelling. When they tested runners switching from shoes to barefoot,

7:10the runners didn't just change their landing pattern. Their entire running form shifted. Their cadence increased. And this is where his perspective gets really nuanced. He's not saying everyone should throw away their shoes tomorrow. But he is saying that maybe we should question why we need so much artificial support for something our bodies evolved to do naturally. The research from his lab is pretty compelling. When they tested runners switching from shoes to barefoot, the runners didn't just change their landing pattern. Their entire running form shifted. Their cadence increased. Their stride shortened. Their posture changed. It was like their bodies remembered something they'd forgotten about how to run efficiently. But what really got me thinking was when he mentioned the Terra Humara people of Mexico. These folks regularly run 100 plus miles and sandals made from old tire treads, not fancy biomechanically engineered footwear. Literal pieces of old tires strapped to their feet. And they do this not as athletes, but as part of their normal lifestyle. So their stride shortened. Their posture changed. It was like their bodies remembered something they'd forgotten about how to run efficiently. But what really got me thinking was when he mentioned the Terra Humara people of Mexico. These folks regularly run 100 plus miles and sandals made from old tire treads,

8:12not fancy biomechanically engineered footwear. Literal pieces of old tires strapped to their feet. And they do this not as athletes, but as part of their normal lifestyle. So that raised another question for me. If running long distances is so natural for humans, why do so many of us find it so difficult? Why do we get winded so easily? And this is where Lieberman's work on breeding comes in because apparently we're doing that wrong too. The average person takes 12 to 20 breaths per minute just sitting around. But here's what's fascinating. Endurance athletes, when they're actually exercising, often breathe only six to eight times per minute. That raised another question for me. If running long distances is so natural for humans, why do so many of us find it so difficult? Why do we get winded so easily? And this is where Lieberman's work on breeding comes in because apparently we're doing that wrong too. The average person takes 12 to 20 breaths per minute just sitting around. But here's what's fascinating. Endurance athletes, when they're actually exercising, often breathe only six to eight times per minute. They're doing more physical work, but breathing less frequently than most of us do while we're sitting still.

9:36When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use indeed sponsor jobs. It gives your job posts the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit at andd.com slash podcast. That's indeed.com slash podcast, terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for indeed sponsor jobs. When I asked Lieberman about this, he explained that it comes down to efficiency again. Most of us are basically hyperventilating all day long. We're taking shallow frequent breaths that don't really fill our lungs completely. But when you watch someone who's really in tune with their breeding, they take the slow, deep breaths that fully engage their diaphragm.

10:37They're doing more physical work, but breathing less frequently than most of us do while we're sitting still. When I asked Lieberman about this, he explained that it comes down to efficiency again. Most of us are basically hyperventilating all day long. We're taking shallow frequent breaths that don't really fill our lungs completely. But when you watch someone who's really in tune with their breeding, they take the slow, deep breaths that fully engage their diaphragm. And this connects to something really interesting about how our respiratory system evolved. We didn't evolve to breathe the way most of us breathe in modern life. We evolved to breathe in a way that supported sustained physical activity. Our ancestors weren't sitting at desk taking quick, shallow breaths. They were moving around, doing physical work, and their breathing patterns reflected that. But here's where I had to challenge him a bit. And this connects to something really interesting about how our respiratory system evolved. We didn't evolve to breathe the way most of us breathe in modern life. We evolved to breathe in a way that supported sustained physical activity. Our ancestors weren't sitting at desk taking quick, shallow breaths. They were moving around, doing physical work, and their breathing patterns reflected that.

11:37But here's where I had to challenge him a bit. There's this whole movement now around nasal breathing. With people claiming you should only breathe through your nose while running. When I brought this up, Lieberman was pretty skeptical. He pointed out that no elite runners breathe exclusively through their nose while running. And he's calling for more data to support these claims. There's this whole movement now around nasal breathing. With people claiming you should only breathe through your nose while running. When I brought this up, Lieberman was pretty skeptical. He pointed out that no elite runners breathe exclusively through their nose while running. And he's calling for more data to support these claims. His point is that we need to be careful about turning breathing into another complicated system we need to optimize when our bodies already know how to breathe efficiently for whatever activity we're doing. The problem isn't that we need to follow strict breathing rules. The problem is that we've gotten so disconnected from our natural breathing patterns that we don't trust our bodies to figure it out. So this brings us to sitting, which is where things get really controversial. His point is that we need to be careful about turning breathing into another complicated system we need to optimize when our bodies already know how to breathe efficiently for whatever activity we're doing.

12:39The problem isn't that we need to follow strict breathing rules. The problem is that we've gotten so disconnected from our natural breathing patterns that we don't trust our bodies to figure it out. So this brings us to sitting, which is where things get really controversial because everyone's been told that sitting is the new smoking, that it's killing us, that we need to stand all day. But Lieberman's research suggests this whole narrative is way more complicated than we think. Here's something up blue my mind. Modern hunter-gatherer societies sit for about 10 hours per day. That's the same amount that most Americans sit. So sitting itself isn't some modern evil that's destroying our health. Humans have always been good sitters, but because everyone's been told that sitting is the new smoking, that it's killing us, that we need to stand all day. But Lieberman's research suggests this whole narrative is way more complicated than we think. Here's something up blue my mind. Modern hunter-gatherer societies sit for about 10 hours per day. That's the same amount that most Americans sit. So sitting itself isn't some modern evil that's destroying our health. Humans have always been good sitters, but here's the key difference. And this is where Lieberman's evolutionary perspective becomes really valuable. Hunter-gatherers don't sit in chairs.

13:41They sit on the ground, they squat, they change positions constantly. Their sitting is active and varied. Our sitting is passive and repetitive. When I asked him about this, he explained that the problem isn't sitting duration. It's sitting position and variety. Our spines evolved to be in motion for 12 to 14 hours daily, but not necessarily upright motion. We're supposed to be bending, twisting, changing positions, engaging our core muscles to maintain balance. But modern chairs sitting bypasses all of that. We're basically putting our entire musculoskeletal system in a cast for 8 to 10 hours a day, then wondering why we have back problems and weak core muscles. And here's what's really interesting about the research on this. Studies show that people who sit extensively during work and leisure time do face elevated disease risks. But leisure time sitting shows a far stronger association with poor health outcomes than work time sitting alone, which suggests it's not just about the sitting itself, but about what sitting represents in terms of overall activity levels. Now there are definitely people who disagree with some of Lieberman's conclusions. Traditional sports medicine folks argue that modern running shoes prevent injuries,

14:41that structured breathing techniques improve performance, that ergonomic office furniture is essential for spinal health. And Lieberman doesn't dismiss these concerns entirely. His point isn't that everything modern is bad, is that we've swung so far toward artificial support and complicated optimization that we've lost touch with what our bodies are naturally good at, sports scientists point out that injury rates among barefoot runners can be high, especially during the transition period. Respiratory therapists argue that breathing techniques can genuinely improve athletic performance. Occupational health experts have data showing that proper chair ergonomics reduces workplace injuries. But here's what I find compelling about Lieberman's response to these criticisms. He's not saying we should abandon all modern innovations and go back to living like contra-gatherers. He's saying we should understand what our bodies evolved to do well, and then make informed decisions about when modern interventions actually help, versus when they might be getting in the way. Take the injury question with barefoot running. Yes, people get injured when they suddenly switch from cushioned shoes to barefoot running. But uh, Lieberman argues that's because they're trying to run barefoot with the same heel

15:44striking form they learned in shoes. Of course, that's going to cause problems. The solution isn't necessarily to avoid barefoot running. It's to understand that changing your footwear means changing your entire movement pattern. Before we go further, if this is changing how you think about your own movement patterns, I'd love to hear about it. You can find me on social media and honestly some of the best insights I get come from listeners who try this stuff and share what they discover. So, what does all this mean for those of us who aren't evolutionary biologists, but just want to move and breathe and sit in ways that actually work with our bodies instead of against them? Let's start with running because this is probably the most practical area. You don't have to throw away your running shoes and start running barefoot tomorrow, but you might try paying attention to how your feet naturally want to land when you're not wearing shoes. Try running barefoot on grass for just a few minutes and notice what changes. Do you naturally land more toward the front of your foot? Does your stride shorten? Does your cadence increase? The goal isn't to force yourself into some perfect barefoot running form. It's to give your body a chance to show you what it naturally wants to do and then make decisions about footwear and running style based on that information. For breathing, it's even simpler.

16:46Most of us could benefit from just slowing down our breathing. Try taking fewer deeper breaths instead of quick shallow ones. But don't turn this into another thing you have to get perfect. Just notice how you breathe naturally when you're walking, when you're doing physical work, when you're relaxed. Your body already knows how to breathe efficiently for different activities. The goal is to get out of its way. And for sitting, this is where small changes can make a big difference. You don't have to throw away your desk chair and sit on the floor all day, but you can change positions more often. You can take breaks to move around, you can try sitting in different ways, maybe even sitting on the floor occasionally while you're watching TV or reading. The key insight from all of this isn't that you need to completely overhaul your lifestyle. If that's your body has these incredibly sophisticated systems for movement, breathing, and posture that have evolved over millions of years. And most of our modern health problems come from interfering with these systems rather than supporting them. Lieberman has this great quote about how we didn't evolve to exercise. We evolved to be physically active. Exercise is what we do when we're not naturally active enough. But the goal isn't to become more disciplined about artificial exercise routines. It's to create more opportunities for natural movement throughout your day.

17:48So here's what I took away from this whole conversation. Your body is not broken. It's not weak or inefficient or in need of constant correction. It's an incredibly sophisticated system that knows how to move, breathe, and function well. The challenge is learning to trust it again and removing the barriers we've accidentally created. Next week we're diving into something that's going to challenge another assumption you probably have about health. We're talking to a sleep researcher who says your grandmother's bedtime routine was probably better than any sleep app or optimization technique you're currently using. Trust me, this one's going to make you rethink everything about how we're supposed to rest. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online makes sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up require compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

18:48Propel Fitness Water With Gatorade Electrolites, Zero Sugar, and Vitamins, Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolites. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsor Jobs. It gives your job posts the boost it needs to be seen, and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast, terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsor Jobs. For now, here's the thing I keep coming back to from this conversation with Lieberman. Your body has been figuring out how to move,

19:49breathe, and stay strong for a lot longer than the fitness industry has been around. Maybe it's time to start trusting what millions of years of evolution. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsor Jobs. It gives your job posts the boost it needs to be seen, and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more.

20:49Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast, terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsor Jobs. Imagine if this stability piece and the innovation piece were each other's missing piece.

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