Happy Hour: Unpacking 'Oreogate' With Jessica Tarlov

0:00Hello and welcome to this episode of Kennedy Staves the World. This episode is all about moms fighting back against nosy moms who try and control other people's kids' lives. I'm talking about Oreo Gate. Jessica Tarlov is here. She's the co-host of the Five. She's also one of my very, very close friends and a great mom, Jessica. Welcome back to Kennedy Staves the World. Thank you for having me. When you were playing the intro, it was just like we're here to talk about moms and I was like, I can't start a while in this. We can't. We can't. No, it's the whole thing. It's not what she needs. She'll be retried. It's awful. There's no silver lining. No, we got nothing. Everything is awful. But we have cookies. But we are going to talk about Oreo Gate because that is the other important parenting issue that is sweeping Instagram.

1:00So Oreo Gate got into my feed. Have you followed the story? Yeah. The best part about it is that it got into my feed from unlikely places. Eric Erickson. Oh. The Zazzlebit or like, I mean, it makes sense like Bethany Mandel. But it was the conservatives that I follow who were like, actually, this is the most entertaining thing. And then my husband sent it to me and was like, I feel like you need some joy in your life and- It's wildly entertaining. So these are like kindergartners, five-year-olds. Maybe first grade, but I believe they're kindergartners. I think they're kindergartners. Yeah. Not the moms, the kids. So Michelle, who is Ava's mom, got upset in a parent group chat because one of the other parents was sending a single Oreo to school with their child. And Ava was like, oh, I want an Oreo.

2:00And so- As well as. Michelle was like, can you please not send Oreos with your kid? Now if this had happened to me when my daughter is wearing kindergarten, I would be like, go f**k yourself. Absolutely. Do not- you do not tell me what I pack in my child's lunch. If there's an allergy, that's a totally different story. And then there- There is allergy- Exactly. I mean- Totally. I think like in high school, there's not a peanut near my daughter's high school. Yeah. Like they- because peanut allergies are anaphylactic and incredibly serious. So you don't screw around with that. This is not an allergy. This is a preference. And this- So Michelle turned into the Oreo police and all the moms started mocking her and then had a mom side-chat with Operation Oreo where they all sent their kids with a single Oreo. And then, um, Ava went home and- Exactly. And Michelle Ava. Yeah, I totally get it. But clearly Ava was getting an Oreo for some- from someone.

3:04And Ava's mom Michelle is like, I don't want her to have Oreos. And yes, I have a reason. But I'm not going to tell you the reason. But the teacher wants to talk to all of you after school. And it's like really like of all the things that you worry about as a parent. Do you think that Michelle was justified in asking the other parents to withhold the Oreos from their kids launch boxes? So I literally have a kid going in to kindergarten so this hits home in that way. Though I am- I'm thinking that I'm going to give her no lunch socially at the school lunch. Okay. I'm a little bit excited because she'll get so hungry but because I send her with like exactly what she wants. Yeah. Which is basically white bread and chicken tunders. Fantastic. Um, Cleo, you're going to be great. Um, I- I understood where Michelle was coming from. And I feel like the initial response should have been- I'm happy to pack two so that Ava

4:08can have one. Yeah. So instead of like the immediate no and kind of like push her on it like this- Does Ava never have sugar? Yeah. Right. Like what is going on here like unpack this? I get the question as an analogy but I feel like the other parents could have maybe helped Ava a little bit more by pushing Michelle on her rationale for this and saying like, okay well are there now they're all of these snacks that are like good sugar and things like that. Like this is processed. I guess it's the argument. It is. Um, you know what? It brings- if you have a single Oreo it teaches you a couple things. One, joy. You don't have to be a glutton. Two, yes. You can have something to look forward to that brings you joy. And when you're a kid like when you don't have a lot of that stuff it does. It brings you joy. It is something that you look forward to. And those kids always know that they get one treat a day. Yes. Like my kids have multiple treats and so they don't care. Yeah. And they're like, okay mom, and then by 730 they get something else because-

5:16My girls mock me endlessly. You know, at 17 and 21 endlessly because I was, you know, and they call me a hippie mom because everything was organic and there was no breastless sugar and they could have treats if I made them with organic flour and organic butter and- You do look at that and- And all that stuff like that was fine. And you know, always trying to find a way like, by the way, the avocado pudding made with cocoa powder is not good. That is not a treat. And that was a thing for a while. It's like take ripe out of avocados and just mix in a godly and cocoa powder. It's avocado no matter what. No. Let's try these. These golden. But I just, I have a problem with- Can you imagine being that teacher? And like here comes Michelle again. So Michelle is basically the Karen of the class. And she was like, we have to talk about the Oreos graduation because evens now really upset. And this is my problem and I'm curious to see how you feel about this. I don't- I imagine you're not a gentle parent.

6:18Like gentle parenting is- I'm a very harsh parent. God, that's standard. Yes. But gentle parenting, so here's a story. I was somewhere the other day and a mother with a two-year-old walked in and there was a very old dog who did not want to be touched. And the two-year-old kept going up and poking the dog. And I was like, don't touch the dog. It wasn't my dog. I was like, don't touch the dog. The dog is old and he will bite. And the two year old- And the mom would not say no. So then I was like, do not touch the dog. And she kept doing it. I was like, no. Did he not notice what was going on? The owner was like apoplectic, like beside themselves, because you know, didn't want to upset the mom, but at the same time- What is it? And I'm like, no. The child had clearly never heard no in her life and started screaming and crying. And I'm like, this is the problem with gentle parenting. Like, you have to give your child boundaries.

7:20And sometimes the boundaries are, hey, yeah, it sucks. And our family, we don't have Oreos. Come home. We can have some delicious frozen grapes. But you cannot dictate what everyone else does because you are a gentle parent, because that is the dark side of gentle parenting. As you assume that everyone is going to accept your parenting for a life. Or things that's a good idea. Do you have parents like that in your life? Actually, you know what? No. No. It's, I don't know if there's been some sort of like boomerang against it. But I don't know of anyone from Pre-K, who was a gentle parent. You know, everyone like lovely and all the things. You're very lucky. Because that is for me the hardest part about kids is other- it's not other kids. Other kids are great. It's other parents. It's the stuff. Yes, the parents are really hard. I still have that, but in different ways. My objection is-

8:20Looting free double-stuff Oreos. Thumbs up. Yeah, the chocolate one's better than the golden. I think. That's still good. But I am a golden Oreo person. My struggle is with parents who don't pay attention to what their kids are doing. So I don't know if that's like reverse- That's part of- no, that's part of gentle parenting. Really? They're like at the top. Watching them. Yeah, and I'm like, oh, your kid just threw my kid off the slide. Or like- That is part of it, because- It's because- Because those are the parents who are not only are irresponsible, but when you're like, Hey, you know, your child just kicked my child and they don't care. I have that happen with a girl when Pala was in first grade and pushed Palae. And I went to her mom and was like, not cool. And she went up to Palae and she's like, did it hurt? Did it bruise? And Palae got like super intimidated. She's like- She's six? Yeah, and I was like, I'm never talking to you again. And I never spoke to the mom again. And she kept trying to be like friendly with me. I'm like, absolutely not. Yeah. That's crazy.

9:21And then like here's the insane story that I absolutely love telling. So I will change the names to protect the guilty. On our street in California, we had two girls, neighbor girls, our girls age. And they would go back and forth to the two houses in play. So the younger daughter, both girls came over. The younger daughter took $20 out of my wallet. Like you saw her do it? No. Her sister, Nark Donner, which I thought was great. And her sister's like, yes, well, my little sister took $20 out of your wallet. And so I said to her, hey, please don't ever do that. That is not okay. We don't take money out of other people's wallets. And she kind of looked at me like smugly and I was like, do not take money out of my wallet. You have to obey the rules in this house or you can't come over and play. So that was it. There was no raising of the voice. It was a semi-stern warning. They all four girls went back to play. The dad calls me and was like, I understand that my daughter took $20 out of your wallet.

10:26I thought he was calling to apologize because that would be the normal. Yeah. Oh, because you and she gave you back the money. Yeah. Like you know this. Yeah. It wasn't like she was like, I didn't do that. No, no, no. And I was like, oh, yeah, it's cool. We talked about it goes, well, I understand that you raised your voice and you yelled at my daughter. And he was like, please do not ever discipline my children. If my children require discipline, please call me or my wife and we will come over and we will sit them down and we will talk to them about this. And I said, hey, guess what? If my kids ever disobey the rules in your house, go ahead and get as mad as possible. Like go ahead and let them know that those are the boundaries in your house. And I said, I'm fine with that. Like if you want to discipline my kids like, oh good, they have to learn the rules in society. Right. But they're different in different houses and building schools and like wherever you're going to go. And I was like, you have to be. And so my baby daddy called me up and was like, she didn't yell at your kid.

11:27Like that didn't happen at all. Like calm down. Also your kid stole. Yeah. Your kid has a morality problem. Right. Like I was just like, I was stating the obvious. So obviously. So obviously. So obviously. Like I get embarrassed about everything when there's like the littlest disruption even stuff that's like normal kid things. Yeah. And that obviously other moms with kids the same age understand like we just did a big sleep over at a girlfriend's house outside the city. And three families, three girls, they of course they wanted to sleep in the same room. Then one of them was like, I want to sleep with my mom. Then it was like two of them left and one including Cleo, my older daughter. Then how far you cracks a door open where the night lights are like, do I have line of sight? It was like an hour and a half to basically no one slept with anyone else and everyone just slept with their own mother. Yeah. But like the whole time I'm just focused on am I inconveniencing other people? Yes. Like that's why you can't. That's why I haven't slept in five years. Like am I inconveniencing someone with my, my being or my children causing a problem?

12:33Right. We'd let alone a thief. So few parents do that anymore. It's shocking to me. And I don't think it's getting better. I'm glad that your social stuff is like, I think it's, I think it's just different. I think the battle lines, a lot around screen time. Yes. And like what's allowed per family, which I totally understand. Like we, our kids probably watch too much on a comparative basis. Certainly, you know, if I asked Jonathan Hyatt, he'd be like, but I feel badly sometimes. I think Jonathan Hyatt would have had me, would have tried to take my children away. And it's not because like I was, I was doing my best. Like I was fighting the good fight with all the educational stuff. But you know, at, at some point there is so much social pressure. They're, it's like, okay, fine. And also a lot of this stuff is educational now. Yeah. Like they're watching Bluey and Espanol. Yes.

13:33Okay, you actually, you know more Spanish words than I do. So maybe this isn't the end of the world. But I do think about that. Like how much also I might be, like my kids behavior, might be upsetting another family and they don't want to say anything because we're close friends. Yeah. But also it's just, we work like crazy. Yeah. Like what are you supposed to do? Yeah. Something's got to give. Yeah. And it's, it's usually like, it's probably like an hour's sleep. And Bluey. Yeah. Seriously, like sometimes you got to employ the whatever works method. And that is the reality. But they probably do when they do, and they hide it. It lack of transparency in parenting is one of like my biggest pet peeves. Give me an example. Like parents that say, we don't do screen time and then like heads over and they're like, Danny go like, you know what I mean? They're like, yeah. Which blippy is that? The first one or the second one? Like, there's no way you know this.

14:35Right. They're trying to act like their mother to their like, honestly, it gets hard sometimes. Yeah. And we're like, one more puzzle. And I'm like, excuse me, this kid knows everything about Peppa Pig, the trolls. Oh yeah. I love that. Trolls holiday. Get the trolls back together. Like dress up as a burgeon for Halloween. Like you're telling me this kid hasn't watched that movie? Yeah. Come on man. That bugs me. I just let you kind of like spin out and I'm like, am I connecting with myself? When I tell you how hard it is. In fifth grade. So Pele at that point had Snapchat. Oh. Yeah. Lotus was not allowed to have Snapchat. She went over to a friend's house and the friend made her a Snapchat account. On the friend's phone? Yes. So it was not on Lotus's phone and it might have been sixth grade. So she was like, can I sleep over for the next year at my friend's house? Pele found it and she was the narc and she was like, did you know Lotus has a Snapchat account? I'm like, no she does not. And I would do that.

15:37Absolutely. And then Pele looks up she's like, you will not believe the people that are following her. This guy's a drug dealer. This girl is obviously a prostitute and I was like, what? They're like 13 year old prostitutes. And so I know these were like adults. And so I called the mom and I'm like, your daughter made a Snapchat for my daughter. She's like, no she didn't. I'm like, no she did. She's like, bye, I just asked her. She didn't do it. And I'm like, okay, listen. You are completely ignorant to what Snapchat is. It is not good. And also there are no safeguards at all on these accounts. And it is a fear. And it is a fear. And the mom was like totally ignorant and then got mad at me and was like, what are you going to do about it? And I'm like, I'm going to fight you. Yeah, exactly. Come on over. I'm sending an Oreo in the lunch box. Yeah. I'm going to send an Oreo and the volume in the lunch box. How about that? Natalia. Oh, yeah. That feels very LA. I'll stop here. No, that was here.

16:38Yeah, that was in New York. Don't go anywhere. More Kennedy saves the world right after this. Where the parents were. Where the parents were. Where the parents were. Great question. Public school parents. By and large. Awesome. I'm glad my girls went to public school. Where the parents were. Great question. Public school parents. By and large. Awesome. That's, I'm glad my girls went to public school. Where the parents were. Yes. They are down to earth. They are hardworking. They are from interesting places. They have cool families. Everyone's got a fascinating story. Like it's been awesome. One of my daughter's friends is from Albania and they go there every summer and her parents are so cool. And every time we have a party. They bring out a party and liquor. Yes. Okay. Yeah. They're so sweet and cool. And I'm like, this is awesome. They're not like, we're going to Albania for winter break. Who wants? Which would be fine. No jazz. That's also nice. But. Yes. My friend, his daughter, was friends with George Martiano's daughter, I believe.

17:44And he was driving them home from school. And then in George Martiano and daughters like this weekend, we flew on a plane with other people. It's really, because like I grew up in that system. Yeah. Or at least for high school. My lower school was downtown and quite chill, but private school. And the difference between even when it was like for me, and I mean, I'm old, but still, like, what 15 to 20 years has done in the money department with these parents and what day it is insane. Brian, my husband told me this story about someone that he works with who has three kids in one of the city private schools, not the one that I went to. And his son came home from dinner at a friend's house and was like, oh, we had some, like, this is some specialty burger that I hadn't heard of, but from this restaurant in Aspen.

18:45And but parents had flown this meal in. Wow. Yeah. And he was like, what? And he was like, it's so good, dad. Yeah. No, I get that. Um, and it's funny that it was Aspen. And he was just that Aspen. But then he was peeling back the layers. And he said, like, my 13 year old knows that there are six billionaire families in his class. Whoa. Not just like, there are a lot of rich people here, but like, there's a different generation. Yeah. And I like 13. Wow. And that kind of damage that it does. So. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm like, I am not a believer that billionaire should not exist. I don't believe that at all. But it is, it's hard to see how you don't get everything. And it's like, sometimes everything is just too much. It feels like too much. I think it is. But I don't just mean too much. I don't just mean too much.

19:45Like, access. Right. But I think it's, it's really hard for kids to have any semblance of normalcy with that. And I'm not saying that you should for go all of the things, right? Yeah. And make them like, that's why people want to send their kids. To Ivy League schools. So they network and meet people like that and, you know, work for their company, work for their family company and marry someone with money. Yeah. Or going out your MRS. God. I hadn't heard that until I was much older. My mom used to say that. Really? Yeah. Cause she was like, I really panned out with you. She was like, she was like, Kennedy, go to HBS. You can get your MRS in the world. Absolutely not. And I was always like, my, and I drill this into my daughter's heads. Make your own money. Make your own money. Make sure you always have money in your own banking account because you never know what's going to happen in life. Never rely on someone else for money. I mean, yes, I live by that.

20:46But I do feel am I just like lulled in by how much I like my husband. No, your husband's crazy. Yeah, but so is yours, but you would still say that. Make your own money and tell your kids. Oh, absolutely. Oh, yeah. No, it's like, you go be the billionaire. Like you be the same. You can take care of the kids and put the Oreo on the lunch box. Absolutely. Let the dads put the Oreo on the lunch box. I don't know. No, super useful. So like when when Paley started preschool, I was so panicked about what to put in her lunch because we had never been in that position. And I, you know, it's like I was doing some pretty intricate stuff and a couple of moms like seriously. And I was like, I don't know. Like you can't pack peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Right. That's what I wanted to do. Like no, uncrustible for them. No. Those are delicious. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I don't know whether to give up on nuts like in their lives for me. No, don't give up on nuts. Embrace nuts. It's really good for them. Like that's what we have so much of their lives.

21:48I understand, but just to like home, you know, it's like. You don't always do it. You don't even care, but the baby likes it. Oh, yeah. She just eats everything. Well, good for her. Yeah. Oh god, I miss it. I know. I still like have it or the tail end of that. Oh, yeah. And I already can tell that my ovaries are going to explode soon once they're gone. Oh, I thought you met you were having more babies. No. I did not come on here today. Are we drinking milk because there's an announcement? Actually, I was thinking back to when they reached out about doing this. I was like, I have the five. I can't have a drink. Yeah. But I did it. Remember when I was pregnant with Teddy, but nobody knew. Yeah. I had to be like, I need a mocktail and you were like. And rewatching it, and I'm like, your face definitely indicated that something funny was going on here. And you were like, let me pour more of this hard alcohol in your glass. And I also look so fat. And all these things are like, how do people know that I was pregnant? It's like, well, you were a boat. No, you were not a boat. I was a beautiful boat.

22:48But I remember one time we were at someone's shower. It might have been guy shower. And you were pregnant. And I held a trash can for you. Oh, and I threw up. And while you barfed. And I looked at someone and I was like, oh, she just had a bad oyster. That's all. Had a baby shower in the house. Yeah. In the house. She's at work. Yeah. It's OK. It's just food poisoning. Yeah. I do remember that. It's her cootery. That was a cute baby shower. Well, cute babies. Yeah. They are cute. All right. Well, cheers to no more babies than Oreos and everyone's lunch. No more gentle parenting and lots of Oreos. I love your coasters. Milk was a great choice. Thank you. Because that's when Kennedy saves the world. Oh, well, it just guitar love. I'm Kennedy. Bye.