H3 Sam McDowell

0:00Ready! Make sure to check out Ready Services for expert plumbing, drain cleaning, cooling, and heating solutions since 1957, saving you money and doing business the right way. Your home of the No-Fee Emergency. Our number three of the program begins with Sam McDowell in studio. I'm your host Jack Johnson, filling in for Seren Petro, Curtisivo, Kyle Collier here as well. Thank you to Frank Bull, who just gave me the hardest five questions I've ever received before. I think they're just four. Four? I don't know where I don't even. They seemed like they were... It felt like they were five. It's like when you're playing a team. They're so good defensively, it feels like they're six guys out there. They're so bad, it felt like they were five. Percy beats me in Frank Opinions. Yeah. An embarrasses me. You guys tied, actually. Oh, it's tied. And Seren's going to be happy with your performance. Okay. Remember the last time I played Frank, he did not go well. I was still kind of figuring out the rules of the game. You started off slow, but you found your way back.

1:01Late start. Just like was it a polo ono in speed skating? Yes. Yep. If you ever get that reference, yes. Start slow. I have a chip late get gold. I haven't heard that name since he last competed, but... Yeah. Well, now you know, I am a big speed skater fan, at least of one person. But I'm also a big fan of the guy sitting... You know, I'm the only person who's ever said those words. Said that on the air. I can take pride of it. Clip it, Kyle. Clip that. In that in this room. A polo ono. I'm a big speed skater fan. He liked the last 30 seconds, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But also a huge fan of Sam McDowell. Sam, thanks for joining us in studio. How you guys doing? Pretty good. This is a conversation you didn't think you'd wander into. He thought we were going to be talking Justin Fields, Kenneth Walker, the NFL draft. Nope. Hello. Oh, no. Mm-hmm. And this will be the first and only time that probably happens. But I actually do. And I'll seriousness, want to get your thoughts on the move from yesterday. We talked a little bit about it with Justin Fields.

2:04Was this a move more so about what the first month of the season will look like where Patrick Mahomes might not be available and they don't want to fall back on well? Let's go get Gardiner Menshu. Let's go get Tyrod Taylor. I mean, Patrick Mahomes has never really had a backup quarterback who still could maybe start for some teams, either. They've usually been guides at the end of their career or trying to catch on. Justin Fields, the former first round pick, he was not good last year for the Jets. He was not very good for Pittsburgh, but he has a little bit of explosiveness, explosiveness that Gardiner Menshu didn't have. Carson Wins didn't have Matt Moore, Chad Hennie, didn't have any of that. Was this more about the first month of the season where he might not be there and they want to have a dynamic quarterback like that or is it a, we've always liked him and now we can get him for a cheaper price with that sixth round pick. Yeah, I mean, first of all, I think they anticipate having Mahomes back for week one. So I think, you know, this is kind of funny. I mean, the move they made yesterday, the guy they'd actually traded for ideal scenarios, you don't play them.

3:04Yeah. But I do think they could use them and I actually think they could use them even when Mahomes is healthy. And I know that's weird to say like other situations where you pull off one of the best players in the NFL, perhaps the best player in the NFL off the field. But, you know, I've been wondering for a while what the Chiefs are going to do in short yardage next year and it hasn't been a talking point for two years. The only reason it hasn't been a talking point is because they were so good at it last year. You know, I mean, they were the second best short yardage team in football last year converting 72% of their third and fourth and one or two to go plays into first downs, but it's because Creme Haunt was a cheat code on short yardage. He had 34 first downs in those situations, more than double every other running back in the league. And if you include quarterback, Josh Allen had 20 70 still is like lapping the field in that. And the plays were Creme Haunt did not get the ball. The Chiefs were just 58% on short yardage, which was going to rank 25th in the NFL.

4:06So Creme Haunt's going to be 31 in August. Understand there could be some reticence to want to resign a 31 year old running back who probably can't do a whole lot else other than that. I think that's a really valuable thing. And so it prompted me to look into like what's just in fields in that area. And he's really good in that area. He was like 12 to 14 running the ball on third or fourth in short last year. It's 85.7% actually a little bit higher than what Creme Haunt's 85% was. 1.33 first downs on short yardage per start. Most among all quarterbacks in the league, seven of eight on quarterback sneaks. There were a couple guys who were perfect on sneaks. But my point is like if they want to use them, they could find a use form. And I understand like I said, the hesitancy and like when you use him in that role, it's like third or fourth down and you're deciding to pull Patrick Holmes off the field. That'd be a weird sight. And like I get that.

5:07I'm just saying like when you take the best player off the field, that's one thing. But when you leave the best player on the field, you're taking the most successful play and football off out of the playbook because you're not using the quarterback sneak. And the choose from one of only three teams on the league that did not use a quarterback sneak last year, half of the league attempted at least 10 of them. And of those, those half, which this, I don't think this is like causation. But it was weird to me that the eight teams that attempted the most quarterback sneaks all made the playoffs last year. I don't, I think that's just a, just a happy sad more than actual causation. But the 10 teams like their success rate was 77% on the half the league. The top half the league that ran at least 10 quarterback sneaks is 77% success rate, which is crazy good for short yardage. And the chiefs just refused to run that play. And I don't think that Patrick Holmes coming off in the injury, like there's something like a say, Hey, let's put that probably back on our playbook.

6:08Yeah. The other way probably is this a scenario to where bringing in someone like Kenneth Walker automatically increases the value of someone like Justin Fields, where if you bring in Justin Fields and he's out there and Isaiah Bacheco or Karim Hunt is the, the back next to him, his best attribute using his legs might not be as effective because you're not worrying about him giving the ball to Bacheco or Karim Hunt now, you know, we saw the chiefs handed off out of the shotgun, maybe far too many times last year, where if you do have that spot in the red zone where it's third and one in, let's say Karim Hunt's not back, but you got Kenneth Walker and you got Justin Fields is that maybe that premier package of look, if I'm a guy coming off the edge, both of those guys can be explosive enough to get into the end zone. Or if it's not at the goal line, let's say they're at midfield, either of them could break free for 50 yard run where last year, Pacheco or Karim Hunt was not doing that. I completely agree and it actually prompted me, you know, and I wrote about this yesterday to look further into that and, you know, Breeze Hall was really good on third and short

7:12last year. This is a really bad offense, by the way, that suddenly is good in like this specific area with the Jets and one of the reasons they're bad is because like Fields could not throw the ball last year, but one of the reasons they're good at short yardages is because Fields was really good with his legs and Breeze Hall was great on short yardage and I think it's because of that, the combo of having to defend both guys who you think are potentially explosive with their legs. And this is all going to be a small sample size, but Breeze Hall carried the ball nine times on short yardage in the games that Justin Fields was also in, 48 yards on those and a touchdown. So 5.3 yards per carry and short yardage with Justin Fields. And the seven attempts without them, seven for 15 yards is 2.1 yards per carry. So I think it definitely, like Fields doesn't just potentially convert third and short, but if you've got an explosive guy next to him, it opens some things up for him and vice versa too. I'm sure one of the reasons Fields was good at short yardages is because he had Breeze Hall stand next to him too. And I haven't really looked at it, but just hearing it, more than 5 yards per carry on

8:16short yardage seems pretty amazing because your design isn't to get 5, it's to get whatever you need to get. Yeah, and I also also think though, because you have the ability to hit a homerun that that makes you more likely just get the one, the one that you need. And that's what the cheese ran into so frequently last year. It's like cream hunt. I think it did an incredible job at that is because I think on third and short, there was a lot of fear in the homerun. So like he ran, it was the only time the cheese would ever face stacked boxes was when it was short yardage and teams anticipated the cream hunt run. Like they knew what was coming, the cheese telegraphed it and it was still successful because he was really good at that, but like if you have the ability, the one was going to turn into 50. Yeah, I mean, in any situation, that's the way we saw the cheese defended all year. So yeah, I think just the ability to like have some explosion there now. We also didn't see like my homes uses like so a whole lot on third and fourth and short,

9:18even outside of the quarterback snake, you know, that was a pretty critical component of some pretty critical plays that they've had. I remember just two years ago, you know, when they beat the bills and they've seen championship was a lot of design runs from the quarterback on short yardage. The year before, you know, when they beat the 49ers to repeat his champs, I mean, the fourth down play and overtime is a design run for patchy homes, wasn't a lot of those in their playbook a year ago. And I think part of that is, you know, to what Jack said about just the inability to respect the other guy standing next to you. How much of, it's just, it's become almost a point where it's, when the legend becomes fact print the legend, the old story, how much of their reticence to run the, the sneak is directly resulting of the injury. How much is that, or has that just become a legend and, no, I think that's it, I think it's it. Oh, yeah, yeah. It was kind of amazing that, that's, you know, six years after it happened, they're like, yeah, we're not doing that again.

10:18Yeah, and it is that more than more than a player. But look, I mean, I get it because, first of all, I think it is a fluky thing. I don't think you'd be more likely to sustain that injury than any of the other quarterbacks who are running that. I mean, Jalen Hurtz is probably the most likely guy to get hurt in the quarterback sneak just because the way they run it and you don't invite contact in a way that I don't think the normal quarterback sneak has the, the same amount, but like what, go through the like the, even the unlikely scenario that, that he gets, that he gets hurt on like a quarterback sneak, I mean, I think they would be like, again, you're doing that again. You need it, you needed two of these to, to learn your lesson. So I, I, I kind of had thought that maybe we'd see it in a, in a bigger game like that fort down. I mentioned in the Super Bowl, just because of the, the sheer shock of it might, might, might work even better because of that. Well, I love the thing about that fourth downplay in the Super Bowl is if you look back, they ran an almost identical play to that earlier in the game, going the same direction.

11:20And they saw Nick Bosa just totally jumps inside. He was, yeah, they had him, both times they played him that year, I mean, then again, year before they had him spinning in circles because he, they knew he's going to crash. And he did again, the second time, I mean, it was just an easy, his first down imaginable. Same thing happened. We're getting a little bit off topic here, but the same thing happened on the touchdown drive at the end of one of the game, the little quick throw to Kelsey. Yeah, yeah. He, he jumps the, the, the swing pass and he's engaged with Kelsey and he sees the back come out. He just jumps, he dumps Kelsey and jumps to swing pass. And he went, right there. So I just, I don't know, anytime I could get a chance to put a boot in the ribs of Nick Bosa. I don't mind, but particularly when it, when it talks about how, how well the chiefs handled that type of player. And that, that is another facet that we saw leave the chief's ability to, when they ran the ball last year was like they, look, I mean, you don't want your running back just always

12:22thinking to bounce, to bounce it outside, to, to not go where, where the play is designed to go. But Isaiah Pichecco's mindset was to hit the hole so quickly, you know, whether that was actually the hole that, that developed or not, that I think guys, defensive ends could crash against the run once the ball. Now they didn't really respect play actions. They did wait till the ball was handed off. But once it was, I think, you know, it, it, it really crowded, you know, the, between the tackles runs, it's just, you know, given where the, the make of the chiefs offensive launch should be where they're really good. Yeah. And his, his walkers ability to play in a foot and break it outside will make it easier for him to run inside as well. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he was actually one of the most successful between the tackle runners a year ago, even though he does spend so much time behind the line of scrimmage. Sometimes his plays up the middle, uh, between the tackles end up being outside was, because he, when he gets through, he can break it out. We saw that twice or once, the one big, one of the two big runs in the Super Bowl was a play in which he sidestepped a guy hit through the hole between the tackles and then

13:24immediately cut to the outside and used his speed down the sideline. That, that hasn't been here for a while. When looking at the running back room now, bringing in Kenneth Walker, Amari D. Mercado, is it going to be a case where last year's running back room was so ineffective, where even the slightest improvement, it's going to feel drastic, because at the end of the day, Kenneth Walker was 16th and rushing him among guys last year in the league. But then you get the deep run, you win the Super Bowl. He is performing at the highest level in the NFC championship game in the Super Bowl. So obviously his name becomes much larger than, let's say, someone like a, oh, a Devon H and Miami, who, Miami was, was rarely in it for the majority of this year. Is it going to be if he runs for a thousand yards exactly next year, it's going to feel so refreshing, because they only got whatever was 440 from Pacheco. Or is it going to be, he's really going to have to be this explosive, dynamic playmaker

14:27and all facets for it to really be noticed in this chief's offense? Yeah, I think the, the actual way you'll notice his effectiveness isn't necessarily in his numbers. It's more like how, how are defenses playing the chiefs? I think you could notice his effectiveness even more and just the passing game being more open than it was a year ago. I mean, the, the chiefs faced the highest percentage of light boxes in the league. So they faced the most defenders laying back in the secondary and I asked him to read about it after the season and specifically in that stack, because that's sort of how I measured the way teams were playing and he measured it based on play action. And he said he always looks at play action and what's, what are the linebackers doing? And he just flat out said he said they didn't bite, they didn't bite this year. And so I think if you've got a running back that he can even make, like your play action numbers could improve. Those aren't, those aren't going to go on, on the back of, you know, Kenneth Walker's football card. But I think that could, I, when you look at the ways to improve the offense, I think the natural thing is to think, okay, get a number one receiver, get, get better, get,

15:32give, uh, protect better up front. But I really think just, just like having the threat of a running game, making defenses actually fear the consequences of playing only the past could open up the passing game and, and even better ways than another weapon for the passing game would. Does Demercato maybe close the door on Kareem Hunt, or is there so a spot where you go, hey, let's bring back Kareem Hunt for short yardage that does make things interesting with Bashar Smith, because I'm not sure they'd want to carry for running backs. What does Demercato bring and is he moving anybody out? Yeah, I still think like that's more to me like a training camp story to see how that develops because I mean, the running back that the chief signed for a pretty reasonable price a year ago, Elijah Mitchell, you know, he had a training camp that I didn't think he should make. I didn't have him on my, my 53 to, to make the team and obviously he made it, but, but hardly dressed and, um, just had basically zero impact. So I, I want to see how that develops because you know, you mentioned Bashar Smith, I think

16:35the fact that they will try and make him the primary kick returner gives him another role tour. Maybe you could squeeze for running backs on your roster. If you feel like one of them is also returning kicks. If you feel like maybe in a pen, she could play in the slot or something like that. I think he's got some different roles to him, but I do think the short yardage is a real thing because I, you know, when I mentioned these stats with, with Justin Fields, you know, I'll be clear about that. I don't think that's the way the chiefs will go with it. I think it's the way they could go with them, but I don't think it's, I don't anticipate that they're suddenly going to be playing Justin Fields on a lot of third and shorts in which case like you are losing a really valuable piece of an offense that we talked about the offense struggling. That's one area where they did not. Like I said, they were second to the league and, and short yardage and cream hunt actually finished sixth among all running backs and expected points added. Like that's how significant it is just to be able to move the chains. Like if you don't have that, you know, I mean, Kenneth Walker was taking out of the games

17:36on third downs with, with Seattle. I mean, Charbonne played third downs for him. So I don't, I don't know that I right here on, you know, March 17th would say that I, I look at the chiefs running back, where he was being complete. Then Travis Kelsey's the other addition in the same week, they get Kenneth Walker, of course, and bringing him back for, I guess at bare minimum, one more year, we've had this conversation before when the season was still going on. And then shortly after it, that it just did not seem like he was going to come back, even with his pores, the season ended, he was going to call it a career. And nobody would have been upset by that decision because of what type of wear and tear he had gone through over the last couple of years. Do you think in his mind that it was more so of just he was upset about the season? He always planned to come back. Or do you think there was a moment in the offseason where Travis Kelsey said, no, I do have to change my mind now. I got to give it one more year because my career is not going to end with a six wind football team and me not even catching passes from Patrick my homes.

18:39Yeah, I mean, my guess is he went into the year to thinking that that could be at last year. And I absolutely think the way that the year unfolded influenced his decision. When did that influence his decision? I mean, the chiefs were out of it with three games to play, you know, literally, you know, they were seemingly out of it for about the last five weeks, maybe. I mean, when they went into that Chargers game, I mean, they had to have so much go their way. It just so that's at least four games that you play, not thinking you're going to make it. Yeah, my point in saying that is he had time to sort of comprehend what the finality would have looked like if he hadn't, you know, if he'd gone out that way. So my guess is late in the season, it probably hit him. And there was definitely, I think, and I was trying to describe it this way, late in the season, like going to the year, I thought it was like 90, 10. That was probably his last year. And I think you got the feeling, you know, I remember leaving the locker room in in Vegas and turning to a coworker and saying, I think he might be back next year.

19:45And I don't know that I would have said, I think he will be back. But it just seemed like more of a possibility. And I definitely think he was influenced by just just how poor it went. I thought that influence though, based, particularly when compared to, and I'm sorry, in addition to the previous year was why I thought he wouldn't come back. I think I was on Sound off the week after that. And I thought what this year would have taught him, I think he came, he came back last year because he didn't want to go out in a super bowl blowout. And what last year taught him was that you don't get to choose how you go out. And it can be worse. And that because things didn't go well, he's like, you know what, I don't, it's up in the air. I'm about to go to another area of my life. It's going to be amazing, looking for the storybook ending on the field. He's going to have a storybook ending off the field. That's your storybook ending that he'd walk away from that. It was because it was so bad that I thought he wouldn't want to come back as what's next you're going to be.

20:47Yeah, I mean, I could see that. First of all, I don't know that he would view the possibility of it being worse. Just because I think so many small things when it gets the cheese that led to their record that I don't know that he looks at that that could be worse, I don't think it's just the record. I think it's just the manner in which it finished as well with the last three games and, you know, Chris Holodokins throwing past me to you. I think- Don't want my last pass in the NFL to be a warm burner from- Yeah. I mean, his last three games had like 50 some yards combined. And who was the guy who came in- Bouchel. Yeah. Shane Bouchel threw on one of my feet. That's how I'm walking out. Yeah, and I also think that, you know, I mean, it's a real thing that, you know, I mean, I wouldn't characterize, you know, how Patrick Holmes, he's really close with all of his childhood friends too, but like in that locker room, I mean, they've been tight for so long. And my guess is that has some sway with Travis Kelsey as well and wanting to be there for

21:49him and not bail in this thing, not really hard this off season. That's an element I hadn't considered. They really are. It is Batman and Robin. I mean, they do kind of feel almost responsible for each other. And I've always felt that that's a role Travis Kelsey has always taken is I'm always going to have that guy's back. And I think the biggest point that I saw that was at the end of that second Bengals AMC championship game when he came in and did the burrow head my ass. This is my Holmes house and that was one of those things where like he says the thing that he knows my homes would probably like to say, but he keeps him out of the fray. He's willing to be the guy to go like, this is, this is the truth. I think he's always kind of considered himself as being that guy for Patrick my Holmes. And so I think I said it in retrospect, it really isn't surprising that he would want to one more time have my Holmes back by coming back in a year in which he's he's going to face an uphill struggle.

22:50I had not considered that dynamic, but that's a good one. All right. Let's take our first break here in hour number three. When we come back, after all of these moves so far, what are the chiefs going to do in the first round of the NFL draft? Let's find out next on the program. All right. Let's find out, Delicatessen, end of the hour answer. And by the way, I was true to my word last Friday, even though we were down at the big 12 tournament downtown. I said, I'm going to be there a little later than usual on my Friday, but I got there. Got the queen. Fantastic. If you don't know, if you know, if you don't know, you should know Lafayette, Delicatessen. Kansas one of three programs to be in the NCAA tournament for at least a 20th straight season. I asked for either of the other two. And officially, I think state, Michigan State, 28 straight, Gonzaga, 26 straight, Kansas, 36 straight. Although the NCAA vacated the 2018. So I don't think they officially view it that way, but I mean, I remember 2018, I saw

23:53the games they were in the final four. So to me, it counts, they played the games and this is a, this is a Mizzou guy talking about that. Don't be stupid. It is funny when it comes to, to vacated wins and, and vacated titles. I know they did it. We talked a little bit, at least I referenced the fat five earlier in the show with Frank. People I don't think really acknowledge it. Because as you said, you witnessed it. You watched it. Louisville too. And they beat, they beat Michigan like to, I don't look back and say, well, actually give it to Michigan. Richard Bush won the Heisman. Yeah. I don't, I don't care. I saw the games. You want it. Yeah. Shut up. I think it's this, it's supposed to be a harsh penalty, but I just don't know if any of the players or the coaches of the fan base really acknowledge it. Like, I'm not even sure you, you insult or hurt a fan base. If you say, well, I don't count it, it got vacated. It's like, no, you kind of, kind of forget that it was vacated to begin with. But I did see the other day with one of those tweets of, you know, consecutive tournament

24:55appearances. And put in the asterisk. So when I sat there, it included, it was like, yeah, it just builds up like, oh, yeah. I mean, you'd have to, you'd almost have to get like the, the, the, the minute block, little, little device. It's like, we remember, we were there pretty sure they lost to, to villain over. Yeah. Was not a game I hated watching. I will tell you how that was. I think they ended up with how many threes to 17. See, people, people say, people say, Mizzou hasn't made the final four, but there, there you are. That's our final four. You've had several final four teams for our final four is watching, is watching, having to watch. Can't just lose. Well, I'm not proud of it, man, but, you know, and I've always said it's rivalries. He watches. It isn't, and it's, there's too much made of that. We don't, at least I don't. It isn't a celebration. It's a relief. It's like, oh, good, they don't get another one. Yeah. I mean, all we ever hear about is, is, oh, how many final fours we've, we've made do. I don't want anymore. So to me, it's like, there is no better relief, a feeling of relief in the NCAA.

26:00Tournament than, oh, good, Kansas isn't going to win it all again. Yeah. I mean, you've got, like, you've got 67 favorite teams going into this tournament, right? Yeah. I mean, one real one, but like, 66 others, although I, I, if I could draw it up perfectly because if Kansas loses on Sunday, well, it's not college basketball season anymore. And we're diving deeply into, I like to still talk about college basketball from a local, but I don't want them to go to the final. Give us one more week for both teams. If I could draw it up perfectly for Kansas, this is an elite eight loss every year because it's too full week to talk about. I don't know if I'm going to, I don't know if I, if I believe that you're going to be rooting for KU on Friday and Sunday. No, no. No, because I, I, the, the fear of them going to a final fours to exist. But if I could exactly say, if you can, here's what you, if you knew they're going to want to do, you knew they're going to lose. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I would say, I would say a lead eight loss every year. That'd be fantastic. Especially you being a Mizzou fan, I think that there's a horse week or sweet 16, but lead

27:02eight allows you to talk about it on the following Monday, too. Yes. With this office, too, being very split when it comes to Kansas and Mizzou, it wouldn't be like, no, I'm not going to root for Mizzou. I think the way that it gets said is, as a station, we want these teams to go far because we get to talk about them more, but I don't think it is a, as a Mizzou fan. I don't think you should ever be caught saying you would root for KU at any sort of game. It wouldn't be the right way to go about it. The only time I root for Kansas to win, when games was toward the end of the 2022 season because we knew that the one seed, they got the one seed and they were locked in a very tight battle. We wouldn't have a show. I was going to say that. That does play a factor on Thursday. So I was like, come on, go rock, chalk, J-hawk, baby. And then they got the one seed and they went in when the national championship, and I'm like, yeah, I know. I didn't do that. I didn't do that. That didn't work out the way. I thought it would. No. I didn't work that day, then watch them hoisted another banner. None of us are above a hate watch, a good hate watch.

28:02And it's just, it's, it's the fan thing that I, the bothers me. There's no, it's, to me, it's impossible to not like yourself. I mean, there's the, there's the, there's like, damn it. I wish that was our guy. Especially for that media perspective, I mean, sometimes we'll just throw the story right at you. Yeah. Anything, any way you want to measure the likability of a coach, he, it's out of the park. Is, which is great, but it also is like, why does the coolest dude that, you know, around, why does he coach successfully my, my, my school's number one rival, but it's impossible. If you talk to the guy for 10 seconds, you're like, I like that, dude. That is the, the beauty to have working in sports media. It's from afar. You can hate a coach. You can hate a player as much as you want, but when you actually get to talk to them, it changes your perception of who they are. Any of us, if you just turn on the TV and the NFL, if you watch somebody that, you know, looks like a, you know what, and behaves like a, you know what, you're not going to like him.

29:03This is 23, his 23rd season at Kansas, and he's been, he's talked to a lot of people in a lot of high-precious situations. Has he ever blown it? I don't know. Blown a gasket at the podium? Was he ever just like, you know, that wasn't good. I mean, how many times in 23 years have you heard Bill himself say something that he's like, I shouldn't have said that. Never. Yeah. I mean, it's unbelievable. I'm good. He is in those situations. I don't disagree. I think this year has tested him in new ways because there's been a lot to explain, and it's kind of been explaining the unexplainable with the Darren Peterson situation that I think it's put him in some really tight spots that's not, not his fault, but it is the circumstances which he's had to deal with this year as being, you know, I mean, trying to offer a reason for something that really all along should have come from the player himself. And I was out at the big 12 tournament all last week, and it did come from the player

30:05himself. And actually my reaction to that was when Darren Peterson explained it is, why now? Why not a month ago? Why not six weeks ago? Why not two months ago? I mean, I don't think anybody heard what Darren Peterson said about going through a full body cramp before the year started and blamed the player for it. I think a lot of them probably walked away saying, man, that sounds incredibly painful. Yeah. I can understand why you would fear that happening again. I could understand how that would get in your mind whenever you feel the slightest something that this whole thing going to happen again that you wound up in the hospital. I just, I was really confused why he's been so quiet about that up until now. But the result of that is when he has been so quiet, it has, you know, really turned on that switch. They were talking about it, Bill. Yeah. It's been something. Yeah. And if you, when you don't know what's going on, people will fill in whatever they want and whatever they want is often the worst possible. Yeah. You let the idea of the idea that he doesn't want to play basketball never gets off the ground

31:09if he's, if we know what he's been going through the entire year. Yeah. And like, to be fair, I don't think that ever had like a lot of logic to it because it literally could have quit. Right. But, you know, it was, the secondary part of that was, wasn't just, he didn't want to play basketball. Even if you were like on board saying, oh, I think he wants to play, you could have said but how much. Yeah. And you could have said, but could he fight through this? Is he being soft? I mean, those, those were out, those, those labels were out there too. And like, the evidence didn't necessarily negate that. You had to trust what you were being told that, that that was the evidence to negate it. And then he explains it and you're like, oh, okay, a lot of, a lot of sense to that and I could understand why you've missed more games than, than what you would like or what any of the fans would like. And like I said, it, I mean, we, we talked here a lot about the fact that I had always said, even, you know, build self a few weeks ago, I said, you know, there's, there's a couple of ways to stop the narrative is to put, he said, he said, play, you know,

32:09you got to finish games and he even said, you know, that's not, you know, his body hasn't completely allowed that but play and I, and I had said, but there's two ways to stop the narrative, play or explain it, explain it. And I do think that the narrative would be a lot different right now if, if he had gotten in front of this in a different way. I do think it's interesting because I remember when self said that and he said it twice and the same. And it wasn't, I, my memory is correct, if I'm not mistaken, oh, he never is whenever it starts to sit down, usually, if I'm not mistaken, um, he kind of brought that up that, that had to change the narrative thing, it wasn't, hey, how can he change the narrative? It was in the middle of his answer. You know, I told him that there's one way you can stop it, that's play. And then he came back around and I think he said it a second time and I was like, he's making the point pretty strongly. He's defending his player, but he's also saying, hey, man, there's a way out of this. Yeah. And that's to play. And he has. I mean, he's, he's finished the last seven games now, um, and that's kind of been removed

33:12from the idea of, of Willie play, you know, looking out for him with the stuff on his, his lap. Yeah. That's kind of gone away right now. Yeah, and it's, what, what's funny though is to me for a long time, that was kind of a crutch for how we viewed this KU team is, you know, well, you don't know what you're going to get out of the star player and, you know, for the longest time, it was the pretty good without Darren Peterson, wait till he's healthy. And then it was okay. He's, or wait till he's back and then okay, he's back, okay, but wait till he's, he's really healthy. You still haven't, you still haven't fully seen him. He doesn't have the explosion now, but now he's been back for seven games and they're still okay. He doesn't look good. There's still kind of a middling team. Yeah. And so now you, now like what, what's the reason in like just, just give him more time? Like you're, you're in, you're in the NCAA's now. And you know, I mean, he's shooting over the last seven games, he's shooting 36%. And this is something else that, that picked my interest as I was out there, that Houston game is, the guys around him don't play well when he's on the court.

34:14And I don't know whether they're still getting the feel for what his role is and all this because it's not inserting, you know, your third leading score, your fourth leading score, you're inserting your best player. And was it just the best player, he's a dominant, yeah, I mean, it's just like, far in a way, the best player. It's a really, it's a good distinction. It's an important distinction all this, but, you know, as I'm out there in that Houston game, you know, Florida, but Dingo is doing like nothing in the game. He's, he ends up scoring five points in 32 minutes. I shouldn't say do nothing. He's always a, a presence defensively, but offensively very limited in that game. And it's the 10th time this year, he's been held to 10 points or fewer in a game. Nine of those have been when Darren Peterson's played. Only once has he been held under 10 points without Darren Peterson, but nine times. And this is the crux of the question with KU is like, can the rest of the guys still be good when your best is on the floor? And you just, when he played a string of seven games, you would hope that that would be

35:16long enough to answer that question definitively, but here they go and they're going to play in San Diego on, on Friday, still not having answered that question. It's almost unprecedented dilemma for a team. They're in a situation where they, they can't make a run without him. But they, when he plays, they, they haven't been able to solve that, that riddle. And I, one of the other things I noticed was, you know, Melvin council was one for 14 in that Houston game. Right. Yeah. If you look at, because one of the notions will ask Gary Parrish about this next hour. The idea that because Peterson is so good that the key to a Kansas run is he, he, he does, he can get hot and carry the team. But that's not what has happened when he's been good this year. His top nine scoring games, they're five and four. Melvin council's top nine scoring games, they are nine and oh. So to me, councils, the more of the X factor than, than Peterson is, he's going to score. He can score in a lot of different ways, even when he hits three shots.

36:18He can score 24 points wherever it was the other night where he had 24 and was 35% from the field. He could, he could fill the stat sheet. What does everyone else do? Yeah. And to me, that they've been at their best when he's scoring 19 and someone else is scoring 15 and someone else is scoring 14. Can they do that repeatedly? Yeah. And what does everyone know? It's not just what they do. What do they try to do? Yeah. Because Melvin council's, yeah, his role is, his role is different. And I think like, even if Darren Peterson's on the floor, he's got to still try and get down hill and get to the basket in a way that he's shied away from when, when Darren Peterson, the floor like, that's been his outlet. And he's really good. Like, he's got a great floater. He, he throws a great alley, you know, if the defense converges on him, when he tries to get down hill. And like I mentioned, with Florey too, like what, what's he attempting to do? You know, KURA and the first play against Houston on Friday, it was a layup for Florey. That was the design of the play. It was the play that they called, they just don't throw it on. It all winds up being back out to Darren Peterson up top.

37:18That's like, no, like your answer offensively is still to play offense. It's not to play like the one on one stuff just doesn't work as well. And college is, as you see it in the NBA with a lot more space and there's just elite, elite shot makers and Darren Peterson isn't a lead shot maker. But right now it's coming at the expense of the other guys getting good looks too. And there are more than one way, there's more than one way to use a player of his skills. To me, people think just, well, just give him the ball and score. But there are so many ways a good offensive system can use the fact that he's so good to get the other people shots. But when they have the situations, as you just pointed out one, that they don't take advantage of it. Use the fact that people think he's going to take the shot and get somebody else open. Yeah, it built self to his credit after the game on Friday. It had said that they didn't do a good enough job of playing behind him. And what he means by that is the defense often, you'll see multiple guys come towards Darren Peterson. And you've got numbers, like you've got four on three, but can you just got to move the

38:20ball quickly? And the ball kind of sticks when he's in the game. And what you've seen the past few games that I thought would be like the sign that they're turning to corners, he's driving the ball a lot more. And I asked him that on Thursday after they beat the one, the quarter final against TCU. And he said, I said, is that a sign of what you're being instructed to do? You feel like this is something you need to do or as a sign of your health. And he said it's a sign that his body is feeling better, that he's trying to go to the basket more. Like I said earlier, that's what we were kind of waiting on with Darren Peterson in order to take the next step was the fact that his body was feeling better. Well, it's like, well, now you've got to react to that too. Like now what is that? He's not making a lot of shots in the lane. Can he pass? Can he get other guys open when the defense converges on them? Like we haven't seen them take the next step like once he is feel, I think the perception was once he feels okay, they'll be okay. He's feeling okay. They still have to figure out what that means. Now what do they look like when he's feeling better too?

39:21And it's just like a process that you'd rather not be figuring out, you know, as you go to the first round, the incident of late tournament. So what's the ceiling and what do you expect? I still think, you know, he has, you know, Bill self said it a few weeks ago that he's good enough to carry a team for a few weeks. He definitely has that kind of talent. But now everything, any optimism you have on KU is not based on like the reality of what you've seen. I phrase this in a column over the weekend, like the imagination of what they could be with Darren Peterson still outweighs like the reality of what they have been because they haven't been great. And especially in these seven games, I mean, they're three and four in those seven games. And I don't know that you could suddenly just guess that they're going to flip a switch. I did find an interesting on Sunday that Bill self said he gave Melman counsel the day off that he's grinding mentally and physically. I think them playing Friday could be a help. And that situation, you know, maybe getting bounced on Friday as opposed to losing on Saturday

40:24could be a help. You get, you know, a full week to digest this, to try and just just work on yourselves because I think that's what KU is right now. Not as much worried about the other team is worried about themselves. But I think St. John's is going to be tough. I think that's if they get by the first round, which shouldn't be a given, Mizzou's not the only team playing home on that's true. That's true. This weekend. They count back to this. Both Cal Baptist and Mizzou are playing the exact same distance from there. So a homeless exact. So I don't think that, I mean, look, I mean, I think that's a good matchup for KU though. But St. John's is going to be tough and every game afterwards is going to be tough. And I mean, Duke, even though they're missing their point guard now has just been really, really good this year. I think it'd be a clear upset if you're picking KU to get past Duke. The one thing, too, before we hit our second or last break here that I've wondered about and it's kind of come more to fruition since Darren Peterson said the mental part of getting over these cramps that could lead into a full body cramp.

41:25I hadn't really thought about how, I guess, dramatic a full body cramp would look like it. This happened in the off season. This happened shortly before the regular season began. I had wondered if part of that fear, the mental hurdle was not I'm cramping, I'm getting hurt. It's the if I'm playing against Yukon on ESPN and all of a sudden I'm on the ground and nothing in my body is cooperating. A lot of pain, how that looks to an audience, right? It's one thing to say I'm cramping, I'm going off, I'm going to sit and now I'm going to put a heating pad on my lay, I'm going to use a Thera gun. It's a totally different thing to having to be carried off the floor of a nationally televised game. That's what started to make sense with this mental part of why he pulled himself out if he felt something because clearly that reminded him of this full body cramp that he went through. And I've never had one. I hope I never do get one. I can't imagine it looks very good. I can't imagine that isn't the most dramatic thing you could see where somebody's entire

42:29body is like convulsing on the ground, which I wasn't there, obviously, I don't know what it looked like. But that had to have been the mental part of it. Sounds uncomfortable. It sounds terrible. On ESPN. Foots cramps are uncomfortable. Yeah. Any cramps are uncomfortable. Any cramp makes you like stop what you're doing, a full body cramp. I mean, in front of an entire sold-out crowd, that had to have been this mental hurdle. He couldn't get over until finally, Bill self said, it's not going to happen. You have to play through it, which is why I think now we've seen him finish these seven games. It's now that mental hurdle. He's clear it. It might have been like the yips where you just you can't get over it until you actually do it. And it's unfortunate, but also if I was dealing with something like that, I'm not sure I would feel 100% every time something was cramping. Or it could lead to my entire body going through this incredibly painful experience. But. Yeah, I agree with you. I think that's been part of the difficult thing for the viewer to figure out is because when you think of cramps, it isn't an incredibly painful thing, which is why it's been clear

43:29that he's been coming out before that step because it is more the fear of it happening because you don't see him riding around and paying to your point of you know that that's part of getting cramp. Well, we've seen tons of athletes get cramps. It looks unbelievably pain and smack the floor and yeah, yeah, we've all had cramps like a calf cramp is incredibly painful. We haven't seen him experience that pain, which is I think has long led to the logic of the fact that the fear of it has played a big factor on it. We'll see what Darren Peterson looks like on Friday night, a late tip in San Diego, Kansas, the four seed versus the 13 seeded cow Baptist will take a quick break. Come back and wrap it up with Sam McDowell wrapping up our hour with Sam McDowell here on the program on sports radio 810 WHB. I'm your host, Jack Johnson, filling in for Seren Petro, Curtis Ebo, Kyle Collier, running the ship as well. How about Mizzou? We'll give him 40 seconds. Yeah, I thought Mizzou was headed in a right direction a week ago.

44:30You know, third team that also has a player that everything centers around, but they've been playing with them all year and like this, excuse just to the last couple of games, especially against Kentucky just said, you go, you go take care of this. And like everyone else just seems to be content with that has been really confounding because this is a group that's been together for since January, as well as he's played almost everyone else is taking a step back, Jayden Stone is taking a step back. And those were the guys in a court since January, the point guard is both neither one of those guys seem to be able to play the committee gave him a kiss, so we'll see if they can take advantage of it. Need to know next. All right, Kansas, one of three schools to have a 900 win percentage in the round of 64, named either of the other two brought to you by Lafeta, Delicatessen.