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Guns or Butter: the great defence spending row

The State of It

About this episode

  • Kidney machines replaced with rockets and guns: Keir Starmer says security is his priority but where will the money for defence come from and when will he tell us?
  • On the road with Nigel Farage.
  • If the polls are right, which major cabinet minister is likely to lose their seat? Spoiler: most of them.
  • And as Labour moves closer to the EU, can they convince voters that it's a good idea?


Steven Swinford, political editor, The Times

Patrick Maguire, chief political commentator, The Times

Lara Spirit, deputy political editor, The Sunday Times


Producers: Euan Dawtrey, Harry Kitson

Executive producer: Molly Guinness


Picture credit: Getty Images

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Guns or Butter: the great defence spending row

The State of It

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