Guest Host Christina P. Kantzavelos interviews Sarah Stasica

0:00I want to thank our sponsor for this episode, be educated. You track your sleep, you track your steps, maybe you even track your protein, but what about your pleasure? We spend so much time talking about our physical and mental well-being, but our sexual well-being often gets left out of the conversation. That's why today I want to tell you about our sponsor, be educated. It's an online platform with more than 150 expert-led courses covering sex and intimacy from understanding pleasure and desire to relationships and exploring what works for you. And you don't have to dive into hours of content, you can start with just five minutes a day. If you're curious, click the link in the show notes for this episode, and take the quiz to get your personalized roadmap to sexual happiness. Once again, that is be educated. Dave Roberts here, there you are, surrounded by fans, sharing wings, sharing drinks, high-fiving random strangers. Everybody remembers the game. Nobody remembers the guy coughing behind you

1:01until a few days later, at 2 a.m., you wake up with a fever and your throats on fire. Now what, urgent care, close, ER, slam, telehealth, maybe, but the pharmacies close. You needed a medical emergency kit. These aren't first aid kits, they contain essential prescriptions, used for over 30 common conditions, sinus and ear infection, UTIs, stomach bug, travelers diaria, and more, on hand before you need them. Use your doctor-developed guidebook to select the right prescription, or call their telemedicine doctor standing by. It's like an urgent care and drugstore at home. When you're sick, traveling, or stranded, you'll wish you ordered a medical emergency kit. Order online in minutes, and it's shipped to your door, and say $45 with my promo code blue at urgentcarekit.com slash blue. That's promo code blue at urgentcarekit.com slash blue. Welcome to the Trauma Thippers podcast. My name is Giaming Ferson. I'm an interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping those who've been impacted by trauma.

2:02Big thank you to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this show. Hello everyone, welcome back. My name is Christina Consolvlas, and I am guest host of the Trauma Thericus podcast by Giaming Ferson. And today I'm excited to meet with Sarah Stasica, who is the founder of the Medical Trauma Support Organization. Hi, Sarah. Hi, thank you for having me. I'm excited to have this conversation. Yeah, you know, something that we really haven't discussed here is solely medical trauma. And if you don't mind telling listeners or viewers, what is medical trauma? Like how do we define that? Yeah, so you know, there are kind of very formal definitions about what medical trauma is, but the way that I define it is, did you experience something that was traumatic to you in a medical setting? And so that's really purposely wide, you know,

3:06because one thing that I've experienced in running the peer support groups for people who have experienced medical trauma is I will have people ask me, does this qualify for medical trauma? Like do I qualify to be here? And my question is, did you experience a traumatic event in a medical setting? And they're like, yes, and I'm like, you are welcome to be here. And you know, I want to go a little bit, because it's okay into, yeah, for me, trauma in general is the experience that somebody has, right? So you may have two people who had very similar medical events happen, and one person did not experience it as traumatic and the other person did. And so to me, the only person that gets to decide is they experienced medical trauma, is that person who had the experience in their body that felt traumatic? So that's how I define medical trauma, and you can imagine that it is really like

4:07a very wide spectrum of experiences that people have that are traumatic to them. So, you know, you have a baby in the NICU, you have a child who maybe was held down for a vaccine, and was fighting, right? You think about the nervous system, and they're fighting, or run, or fight, and they're being held down. That can be really traumatic, and then we go to somebody who may have spent a month in the ICU and experienced delirium. So it's a really wide spectrum, another really common trauma that I hear about is birth trauma. Experiencing a trauma while you're burthing, a cancer diagnosis can be incredibly traumatic for somebody, treatment can be traumatic. It's really very wide spectrum of what people experience that feels traumatic to them in their bodies. Definitely, and I feel in both a personal,

5:11professional level having gone through chronic illness, sometimes it adds the little teagues add up to become big teas, right? Having to deal with searching for a diagnosis and being gaslit by the doctor, or the clinic, or dealing with insurance and pushback, not being able to get an appointment, not being able to get in, someone not listening to your, about your allergies, right? When you get to the ER, not taking what you're saying seriously, these things add up in the nervous system. Absolutely, that feeling of being dismissed and invalidated is huge. And like you shared with chronic illness, it just kind of happens over and over and over until you finally find the care provider that's gonna put you differently. Exactly. But yeah, absolutely, those experiences add up. And something that's always so interesting to me

6:13is somebody will come into the group or be on the podcast and they share an experience that they had that was really scary, right? I think pretty much anyone in that experience would have really been scared, life or death kind of situations, but what they often talk about was the relational component. So while they were in that very vulnerable space, somebody was relationally hurtful to them. And that is what really stands out. And I think that goes to my whole thing about bringing more humanity into healthcare because we're all humans in this healthcare system. And when we're at our most vulnerable, we really need somebody there who's like present and attuned and compassionate, but that often doesn't happen because this system is draining the care providers, right? They're not getting what they need from this system so it can be really hard for them to show up

7:15in this kind, compassionate way that we really need when we are at our most vulnerable. Oh, a thousand percent. And we're gonna get more into that in a bit. But first, I'd love to know how did this call to you, this path, what got you here? I'm gonna try to summit down. Like I'm gonna try to keep it short. There's so much. So what really started it was when I was pregnant with my first child, we found out in an ultrasound that there would be some medical interventions that we would need to do at birth. And so it started there for me. And I was not in the trauma world. I didn't have any idea like what the emotional impact would be on me and my husband, what the emotional and physical impact would be on my child. And so the first two years of their life,

8:16there were quite a few visits, procedures, that created trauma, right? And I know that now because over the years after that, we started to see what I now know were trauma responses. And they, some of them seemed like, I don't know what is happening. Like why is this band-aid causing this total freak out? I know now because I understand more about trauma. And so that we had that experience. And then I experienced a birth trauma after having my first child. And about a year after that, I think as part of my like trying to heal and understand I went and did a doula training. And I did the training not expecting that I would become like a doula for a career, but I fell in love with being with birthing people in these beautiful, intense, challenging times.

9:23And the interesting thing while I was doing the doula work is I really started to learn more about advocating and the medical system. And so that was a huge, like really important piece to my whole journey to get where I am now. And that journey involves becoming a peer specialist. It involves becoming a trauma informed yoga teacher to learn more about the nervous system and the somatic practices we can do to help ourselves and our family. And then ultimately I went back to school and I got my master's in social work. And it was while I was in that program that I was able to do an independent research project with one of the professors who's like the trauma professor. And I was studying in that project. I was studying childhood medical trauma. And how do we help parents help themselves so they can then help their children

10:23through these really kind of challenging medical moments and the aftermath, the emotional, mental aftermath that happens after the treatments. And one of the things I was doing was trying to gather resources for the parents, right? Like who was talking about medical trauma? Who was researching medical trauma? Who's writing about it? And it was like crickets. There were like a couple of people that I found. I did not find any medical trauma support group. And so I decided to start my own. So that is where this journey, that's a very abbreviated, you know, description of the journey that's led me here. And through the peer support groups, which I love, I love them. I love the people that are drawn to them. You know, it's, I've just, I've learned so much more, right? I learned so much more than I did through my own journey and through doing the research. It's like, and so I've become even more passionate about it.

11:26And you know, one thing you and I have talked about was before we started recording, but what was it was much more like, you know, the ICU and the experiences people have in the ICU and the experiences they have when they get home. And so I've learned so much about that from all these amazing people, these survivors, and clinicians who are working with survivors to help them as they are navigating post-intensive care syndrome. So it's really been like this, you know. One of that response are today, Jane, a practice management software and EMR that comes with something that can be hard to find, support that feels supportive. When you're choosing the right software for your practice, it's worth thinking about what support actually looks like. With Jane, you can call, email or chat and a real person picks up, even on Saturdays at no extra cost. For a lot of practitioners, that makes a big difference. Jane also has a growing library of guides and tips,

12:27plus onboarding and import support. So switching is simpler. Head to jane.app slash explore to learn more. And when you're ready, use my code, guide the number one, M-O, that's guide one, M-O for one month grace period on your new account. Dave Roberts here, there you are, surrounded by fans, sharing wings, sharing drinks, high-fiving random strangers. Everybody remembers the game. Nobody remembers the guy coughing behind you until a few days later at 2 a.m., you wake up with a fever and your throats on fire. Now what, urgent care, close, ER, slam, telehealth, maybe, but the pharmacy's close. You needed a medical emergency kit. These aren't first aid kits. They contain essential prescriptions, used for over 30 common conditions, sinus and ear infection, UTI, stomach bug, travelers diarrhea, and more. On hand before you need them. Use your doctor-developed guidebook to select the right prescription, or call their telemedicine doctor standing by. It's like an urgent care and drugstore at home.

13:28When you're sick, traveling, or stranded, you'll wish you ordered a medical emergency kit. Order online in minutes and it's shipped to your door and say $45 with my promo code blue at urgentcarekit.com slash blue. So 15 year, 15 and a half year journey for me that's gotten me to where I am at this moment. Yeah, and so it's so beautiful how you've, like, really turned this into a, a purpose. And I think also, so often when we're talking about medical trauma, we're just talking about the, like, the patient, right? The client in which it's being, or who's being affected, we don't discuss the parents or the caregivers or the patients. And they're secondary trauma witnessing their child or their loved one, you know, suffer essentially. And I think it's, it's important to talk about that and how, how the caregivers are affected as well. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that's so important whether you're, you know, you're caregiving for a parent,

14:29you're caregiving for a loved one who is an adult, or you're caregiving for a child. You know, for the caregivers, it's important for people to, like, recognize, like, there's terror. Like, for my child, I was so, I was scared. I was really scared. And then on top of that, you're seeing your child in pain. And you're then, you're questioning, like, is this should I have done this? Is this the right thing to do? Because I've brought my child to this medical appointment and they're in pain and they're in pain. And then I think that's the only way to get to this medical appointment and they're in pain. And so, there's just so much to it. And I think, you know, I've talked with people who are caregiving for the older parents. And, and they're just seeing, like, these end of life things that are happening and they're questioning, did they really need to happen because of the, they're traumatic. They're traumatic for my parent. And my parent is a end of their life.

15:29So, it's really challenging to be the caregiver as well and to witness it. And so, that's why one of the things that I was working on in this project I did in my program was to help educate parents about their own needs. I think it is crucial for the parents to, first of all, have just kind of a basic understanding of the nervous system. Like, you don't need to know all the words or get deeply into the medical words for it. But just to understand what's happening in your own system and what's happening in your kid's system, I just kind of changes everything when you start to think of it as, hey, we're humans with this nervous system. And it makes a lot of sense that my heart is pounding, that my hands are sweaty. And so, you have more compassion for yourself. And then you can start to do things that can help support you in it and support your nervous system in it. And then you're better able to be a way for your child

16:33to regulate themselves through co-regulation with you. So, I think that's a really important piece to the whole medical trauma conversation. Completely caregivers need support, need that level of guidance. And as you said, co-regulation. And I would say a portion of those I see are parents or children of parents who have some form of chronic illness or some kind of disease where it's difficult for them to find a therapist, I'll just say, who can understand or relate to that specifically? Because it is so specific. And I'm wondering for those tuning in, what are some signs that someone's experiencing medical trauma or even secondary medical trauma? Yeah, well, I think one way is you feel different. You know something has changed.

17:33You feel different, life feels scarier. It's harder to access those old feelings of joy and connection that you did before. Nightmares, like a lot of times, after we've experienced medical traumas, it really impacts our sleep, right? And it impacts our sleep for a couple of different reasons. But one is nightmares, right? You have nightmares or you wake up in a panic attack? It's really scary to want to go back to sleep because you're like, okay, go back to sleep, I might wake up with a panic attack. Another thing to go back to the nervous system is, when we've experienced trauma, whether we've witnessed trauma, we've experienced in our own bodies, is our nervous system gets more hyper-vigilant, right? It's a beautiful way that our body tries to keep us safe, right? And alive, but we do become a little bit more sensitive to looking for danger. And so that feeling of hyper-vigilance, you know, constantly being on the lookout for danger

18:35in a way that you didn't feel before, is another indication. Some people may feel like more depressed, but more kind of like shut down. Another thing that is really common with medical trauma is that you want to avoid pains, right? So after experiencing a really stressful medical event, you may be like, I am not walking back into that hospital. I will not walk back into a doctor's office. Oftentimes it is also like, impact dentist visits. So avoidance is a big one. And in our peer group, we were talking about how, sometimes it can feel like your body is essentially saying, you don't go back or you are walking to your death. It's that feeling of like walking to something that will kill you. So those are like a few of the things that people experience. And, you know, I definitely think that their universal human responses to medical trauma.

19:39And also we each might have some that feel a little bit unique to us as well. So if you have noticed a change in yourself after a medical experience, that's oftentimes an indication that it was pretty stressful or traumatic for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like it's avoidance or there's like this visceral trigger, if you will, when you discuss anything related to medical care. Right. Just you just, you see somebody in the scrub, you know, you see someone in the scrub that can just out at the grocery store. Maybe they're shopping after their shift ended. And it just kind of makes your whole body clinch up. You know, that can be really common. You know, I said a bandaid for a child could be a trigger because maybe something about the stickiness reminds them of what they went through in the hospital. Smells are huge, right?

20:42And smell is so powerful. And so for me, there is a particular smoke smell that I remember from the hospital. I know what Joanne you're talking about. I can feel my body clenched just thinking about it. Yes. And so things like that. I mean, that's like a perfect example, right? Of you smell something and your whole body clinches up. Are our bodies really remember? I do also. I think it's so important for us to also say that we can shift things. Right. It doesn't mean that we're never going to have a nightmare. We're never going to remember what happened to us. It's a hard time. We can actually make little shifts so that the response isn't quite as big. And we are able to like have practices and start to call and support and advocate for ourselves. So that walking into a medical setting isn't quite as scary.

21:44It doesn't necessarily feel like we're walking to our death anymore. It might feel like I don't want to go. I don't want to go. That's kind of part of that journey. You can start to see some changes, the recovery journey from medical trauma. I agree. And I think like you, I get to see it on a regular basis. So if you're tuning in, you're like, is this the rest of my life? It doesn't have to be, I think, with the right level of support. And also being seen by doctors who believe you, you can trust who you feel like, yeah, this person has my back truly make, can make all of the difference as you continue to process and get your nervous system into a more flexible state. And I'm sure you've seen a shift in yourself with the work you've probably done. I think it's probably like one of the reasons I am so passionate about this is because of the shift

22:45I've seen in my own body and in my own nervous system. And I've also seen it and the clients I'm working with as a therapist and we're talking about it in peer groups. And something that I just think is so beautiful that often comes up in peer groups as part of this recovery path is people starting to want to step back into the system to help other people. Dave Roberts here, there you are surrounded by fans, sharing wings, sharing drinks, high-fiving random strangers. Everybody remembers the game. Nobody remembers the guy coughing behind you until a few days later at 2 a.m., you wake up with a fever and your throat's on fire. Now what, urgent care, close, ER, slam, telehealth, maybe, but the pharmacy's closed. You needed a medical emergency kit. These aren't first aid kits. They contain essential prescriptions used for over 30 common conditions, sinus and ear infection, UTIs, stomach bug, travelers diarrhea and more.

23:45On hand before you need them. Use your doctor-developed guidebook to select the right prescription or call their telemedicine doctor standing by. It's like an urgent care and drugstore at home. When you're sick, traveling or stranded, you'll wish you ordered a medical emergency kit. Order online in minutes and it's shipped to your door and say $45 with my promo code blue at urgentcarekit.com slash blue. That's promo code blue at urgentcarekit.com slash blue. Yes. It's so beautiful. It's so healing. Like you said, finding a care provider that's compassionate is a really healing step. So is that step of starting to advocate for other people. And we have within our peer group, we have so many people that are putting their own spin on how they're advocating for other people. They may be talking to their local hospital about making changes or writing a book or speaking out, you know, going and doing speaking engagements

24:48just to really spread the word. But I want to go back to what you said about the compassionate healthcare workers as well because I think sometimes when people hear medical trauma, they think that you like hate medical providers, right? You're talking about medical trauma. And that is absolutely not true, right? There are many people who have been harmed. I want to acknowledge that there are people who have been harmed in medical settings. We know this. And also there are some of the most compassionate, loving and kind people working in the medical system. And I've had some of them on my podcast. I've had doctors and nurses. And I, you know, I think oftentimes they don't actually understand the impact that they have on their patients by showing up as compassionately as they are. And I try to tell them, I'm like, you,

25:49you're not only creating an experience for this patient in this moment, but you are actually helping them heal from past medical trauma. And so I just think that is so important. And I think it's so important for people to keep looking until they find that air provider. And I know it can be so discouraging. Sometimes we need to take a break and we need to say, I need a break before I look for that care provider. But it is so healing when it happens, when you find them. Yeah, yeah, there's a quote that healing happens when someone listens to you, right? And I like, I know I went through it on my own healing journey when I took me so long to find the right care providers. But when I did, it really made a huge difference. And I again, I witnessed that in my day to day. And you know, you deserve anyone tuning in,

26:52you deserve or your clients deserve to find the right provider. It's we're allowed to shop for our practitioners until their body goes, yes, this is the person I desire to work with. I love the way you said that until our body. Like, yeah, because our body does know. It's so, it's so, so does our bodies are so intelligent and really amazing. And for those tuning in who are like, okay, perhaps I've experienced this and or I know someone else who has, what are the next steps? What do I do next? So I think, well, first of all, the first step is becoming aware, right? And that's what we're talking about right now. So anybody listening to this who wasn't aware of medical trauma, this is the first step is to become aware. I think that the next step is to find support.

27:55And support can look like a lot of different things. It can look like a therapist. It can look like and honestly, I love layers of support. So I love it when we can have layers. We can have a therapist. We can find a support group. You know, there are a lot of support groups out there. I run a support group, you know, for anyone who's experienced medical trauma, but they're support groups specific to picks, which is post intensive care syndrome. You know, they're support groups specific to birth trauma. I know that they're a chronic illness and chronic pain support groups. You may run one. I do. I do. Yeah. I knew that you did that work as a therapist. I wasn't sure if you had a group. So, so really finding that support, whether it's a therapist and or a peer group. And even, you know, within your community, you may be able to start your own support group. And I've had some people on my podcast that have started support groups in their areas. And so, you know, a lot of support groups are virtual.

28:57But then there are some people starting support groups in the cities where they live. And that's beautiful too. So I think support is step two, right? Step one is awareness to even realize like, oh, there is a name for this change that has happened to me. And step two is to find support for it. And then of course, I'm going to have to say nervous system education is just life change. I knew John it. I'm so, so important to get that nervous system in a flexible, out of survival, out of fight or flight or freeze or fawning, response. Yeah. Yes. Hmm. Yeah. So I know your website has quite a few different resources. Would you like to speak to them and your offerings and so forth? I will.

29:57Yes. I would love to thank you. So my website is medical comma support.com or dot org. I either way will take you to my website. And I have a lot of resources, right? I have a lot of resources there for different types of medical trauma and then kind of the umbrella of medical trauma. You can go there and you can read about it. And I you will probably read things and think, wow, yes, this is what I've experienced. I also have a podcast called the medical trauma support podcast where I bring guests on. They are, you know, people who have experienced medical trauma themselves. I have clinicians on, I have therapists, I have doctors, nurses. So that is another resource that is free and available to anyone. I do have some nervous system practices on my YouTube channel, which everything is under medical trauma support.

30:58So my Instagram's medical trauma support, my tick talk, which is a newer one I'm on, is they're all under medical trauma support. You can find a lot of resources there. And then one of the things that I offer is a community for people who have experienced medical trauma and that is called the medical trauma support circle. So within that community is where we have peer groups, we have soothing yoga sessions, we have community conversations where we bring people in to come and speak to our community. There's a lot there and I also have a course for people that are like, I want some more information, but I'm not sure that I'm ready for a group yet. That's another option is a course, but I do have to say the groups, and the people that are drawn to this community are so kind and compassionate and supportive. And so even if you are kind of scared to start a group, there is not an expectation in

32:02our peer groups that you have to share your story. Sometimes people come in and they just want to listen and see that they are not alone in it. And that feels I think a little bit easier for somebody to step into a group to know that they don't have to come in and share their story. They can just be with other people. So I hope I listed all the resources. There may be more that I've forgotten, but you can screw it on my website and find you out there. No, it's, yeah, I recommend visiting the website to anyone tuning in. And remembering to just like a provider, it can take a moment to find the right community too. That's, yes. So ensuring that your body is going, yes, this is it. I'm excited. And like you said, you don't necessarily have to share or feel forced to do anything. You can tip toe. That's what I like about how you're approached. So gentle, like any phase you're in is welcome.

33:03Oh, yeah. Thank you. Yes. I know. I'm like, trauma. Let's go slowly and gently. Slowly. Slowly. It's so true. And I do. And I wholeheartedly believe that we heal in community. And yeah, it's, it's very powerful. Especially as women and women know about our nervous systems now, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's a very important question piece is vital. So yeah. Thank you. I mean, really thank you for the work that you're doing in this in our community. And I'm wondering if there's anything you'd like to leave with, with those who are here with us today. Yes, I would. I think number one is you're not alone. You know, you're not the only person feeling this. It can feel so isolating, but you are not alone. And so I think finding your community, like you said, we heal in community.

34:04So I think that's really the biggest thing for me is to find that community. So you don't feel isolated. You don't feel alone in it anymore. And it is such a beautiful way to start your own journey toward recovery and healing. Because that is, that is possible. I think that's the other thing too, is you're not alone. And it is possible to start to feel better. Say that all the time. Amen, amen, amen. Sorry, thank you so much for being on here today. And again, thank you for all the work you do. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It was so good to talk to you. Thank you. And thank you to all YouTube days. Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have Exema. So I get how it can steal your time. But why let Exema take over when you can talk to your doctor about Epglyce?

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